I finished and tested a few darters last week, I've still got a bunch to epoxy... the butt end is a little fatter on these than I usualy do... out of 18, all but 3 acted like I wanted... the three "dogs" were clearly over weighted, which surprised me because I weigh each slug....

The bodies are birch and weigh 2.5 ounces @6.5" long

I've since drilled out the lead, filled the hole in the putty, dabbed on a little paint and covered the patch with 5 minute epoxy.. if the ice clears, i'll take them for a swim, they float well in the bucket now.... BTW... any one scouring the PI beach may find a pair of black 6.5" 2.5 ounce darters... the ice flows ate!

:drool::drool::drool: Nice looking darters :uhuh::uhuh::uhuh:

nice joe. i am still working on mine. I just finished the first fixture for the bottom part lip. I am doing it on the table saw after much consideration. Numby got me thinking and i used his idea. I used a few ideas from your fixture, as far as mounting it to the fixture, that you showed me and so far it is very solid and it works great. Next on to the fixture for the angle, slope. That i will do in the band saw much like your fixture. I just pray they swim.

Damn you eat a lot of eggs! nice plugs.

I suspect he got those from work as we use them for smaller machine part storage between operations. We got 1000's of them.

nice joe. i am still working on mine. I just finished the first fixture for the bottom part lip. I am doing it on the table saw after much consideration. Numby got me thinking and i used his idea. I used a few ideas from your fixture, as far as mounting it to the fixture, that you showed me and so far it is very solid and it works great. Next on to the fixture for the angle, slope. That i will do in the band saw much like your fixture. I just pray they swim.

I turned 12 of those small Gibbs ones we worked on last night, 6 out of maple, 6 out of birch, the maple are .25 ounces or so heavier... I rigged half of each body and floated them in a bucket.. I like the balance,unfortunatly I have no where to swim them unless I take them to the beach.... and that is a hard way to check the action this time of year...I'm still considering moving the hook foreward... but the man that originaly made that plug forgot more than I will ever know...

yours will swim... the biggest thing with the angles is how much of each angle you want to over lap the prior one... 1/8" change higher or lower on the slope changes the depth they want to swim and the amount they dart.. as long as the balance is good you'll be fine..the rest is symantrics..

I suspect he got those from work as we use them for smaller machine part storage between operations. We got 1000's of them.

Bijngo... we have Bingo!

Bijngo... we have Bingo!

LOL have stacks of them here also.

Nice stuff Joe. I think solid black darters were my #1 plug last year.

ok darter fixture time. first part anyway. Here is what I came up with after George told me to try it on the table saw. I am standing it on its nose. Belly hole is positioning it on a pin and there is a pin going into the tail thru hole, thanks Joe for that idea. You can't move it a smidgen, rock solid and the clamp is almost unneeded. It has multi adjustments for different lengths and I will just make more blocks on rear end to accommodate different dia. darters if I ever need too.

Paul if you use a wide dado blade you get both cuts in one pass.:uhuh:Very similar to one i made.

fixture slides along against the fence to a final setting and they repeat great. Slap it in and run it thru, done. You can adjust the angle if need be if you are inclined to experiment. I am challenged enough so far with this one. I am using a dado blade as my regular blade is just too thin to give me the best width, plus the blade I first tried was so friggin dull. I have not used my table saw in probably 7 years so I can't remember what the hell I was sawing but it ruined the blade. The dado cuts the birch like butter.

Here is the darter I am trying . A nice Musso that George lent me. The one problem I did have was the aluminum plate kept galling a little bit on the cast iron table as you slid it along into the blade. I stoned the table like 3 times and broke every sharp edge, still was hard to push. I took it back to work and fly cut the fixture, still not smooth enough so i took a thin piece of polypropylene and took some 2 sided tape and adhered it to the bottom . Works like a charm, smooth as silk. Got the idea from my duplicator as I had to do that to the cutter sled. That all she wrote . Next week i work on the band saw fixture for the slope, angle.

Paul if you use a wide dado blade you get both cuts in one pass.:uhuh:Very similar to one i made.

I am using a dado in one pass. It is adjusted to the thinnest setting which is about 1/4".

holy crap Paul, you need to learn to make those jigs with wood :hs: unreal
I have plenty of scraps
unless those are scraps also


Lu is right about using a dado, but in your case your jig is vertical not at a 45 so I think you'd need a different throatplate.
that's how I plan to do mine when I get to it.


Joe, nice looking darters :btu:

scraps B., easier for me to do out of alum than wood. I am posting so others can get the idea and use wood instead of what I used. The same thing can be made of wood and work just as good, it is just not my preferred material. I am using a dado. am I missing something?

fixture slides along against the fence to a final setting and they repeat great. Slap it in and run it thru, done. You can adjust the angle if need be if you are inclined to experiment. I am challenged enough so far with this one. I am using a dado blade as my regular blade is just too thin to give me the best width, plus the blade I first tried was so friggin dull. I have not used my table saw in probably 7 years so I can't remember what the hell I was sawing but it ruined the blade. The dado cuts the birch like butter.

do yourself a big favor and attach a 3/4" x 3/8" piece to go in the miter slot so you don't have any issues holding it against the fence. I know it's alluminum but it also is very close to that blade. make that thing into a sled like I did with that allum. I got from you for my big sleds.

ya, a wider dado set will cut the complete nose cut, get it? put 2-3 blades together

I've been developing a method using heat to adjust the weight of my val oil/MS sealed bodies. Still need to get some bugs out. :grins:

Got 1/2 an oz off, but I find my equipment needs some work.

you talking the slope? the bottom lip part is complete. the excess will come off in the band saw when the slope is put on, No?

WHat you don't like that .010 clearance I got on the fixture to the blade :rotf2:. I got to relieve a little more of the fixture. I guess i could use the miter slot but that would take away my adjustment for other's that I might do. No?

LOL George I think you over cooked them. Did you fall asleep at the switch? Smoore's

Paul you build some AMAZING jigs

You should see my Irish jig.

Nah it just looks fancy because it is shinny and over engineered. You can get same results with precision cut wood. I just got the ways and means so i use shinny stuff. thanks

are those Cubans George?


Paul, I see, we'll talk about this later on

When I grow up I want to be a machinist or cabinet maker..
George, those flames are phenomenal, they look almost real....

Nice as always Joe.

Nice darters Joe.
Paul that jig is sweet, I want one.
George best flame paintjob I've ever seen. :rotf2:

Professor M, your name suits you. Beautiful jig.

you talking the slope? the bottom lip part is complete. the excess will come off in the band saw when the slope is put on, No?

WHat you don't like that .010 clearance I got on the fixture to the blade :rotf2:. I got to relieve a little more of the fixture. I guess i could use the miter slot but that would take away my adjustment for other's that I might do. No?
The wooden tenoning jig I made has slots for adjusting the alignment of the jig to the blade. Slots in the jig, studs stick up from the runner that fits in the miter slot, thumbscrews for adjustment

The wooden tenoning jig I made has slots for adjusting the alignment of the jig to the blade. Slots in the jig, studs stick up from the runner that fits in the miter slot, thumbscrews for adjustment

After sleeping on it last nite i came to the same conclusion, slots, although I probably won't do it as it works fine now. Maybe after I cut off a few apendeges off I will reconsider. It is close to the jig and I didn't intend it to be so close but it is doable and as long as you are paying attention it will be fine. Besides I will probably not be making more than 20 darters a year so it is not like I am going to be using it all the time.

... instead of making them! :uhuh:

Unbelievable Paul- your skills are amazing!

I am using a dado in one pass. It is adjusted to the thinnest setting which is about 1/4".

I like your jig but I don't understand what you guys are doing with the dado blade or why you would need more than 1 pass?

nice jig! your jigs are a piece of work on their own!

I hate table saws...they are messy and dangerous...

Here are a sequence of pictures of the jig I use... one jig does all the cuts, after each cut , I adjust the fence and move the main assembley to thenext location
First picture is of the bottom lip... second is of my first cut, maybe the most important... third is of the second slope ange ...

Alll holes are fefrenced off of the belly hole, the tail stock is movable to accomodate different sized plugs, the pin hold the plug tight, no clams are needed, which I found to be problematic with the original jig I made.... pre detirmined areas are marked on the blank prior to cutting, these referance the start of each new cut...

the first picture is of my final angle cut for the dive plane, followed by the cut for the top lip... after cutting the top lip, the plug is left in that posistion and brought to the disc sander, by alinging the edge and using a "soft" touch, I start at the final predetermined mark and draw the plug towards me, thus sand out any kerf marks left by the band saw..

this series of pictures shoiws the rogh saw kerf cut of the plug prior to taking it to the disc sander, before and after pictures show that very little material is remived by the disc sander, because the plug was left in the jig, all angles remain true even after sanding....

:drool::drool::drool: Got to love those jigs!!!! Great work guys.

ah ...jigs...for darter hell...

good stuff

Diggin i don't find the single blade i had to cut the right angle flat at the top of the lip to be wide enough. The dado allows me to get that width and more. It is all coming off in the second angle cut anyway. I use it adjusted to the thinnest setting. If it went thinner I would do so. I don't understand why I would want it wider either as I said it will all come off after in the second cut and that will dictate the final width. I just want that width to be a little wider than my single blade will give me. Also i am using it because it is the sharpest blade I got.

I saw Joe's fixture in person and it is a great fixture. I used some of his ideas in mine. I will end up using something similar for my next procedure. I just feel I will get more consistency in my first cut with the set up I am using now. I don't have the type of set up Joe has for his band saw so that is why I opted to go this route. I also find it not to be too messy as it is a very small cut and not much dust and it is pretty safe, at least for me, as the blade is only a small amount above the table. Of course you need to pay attention and accident's can happen to the best of us. I still may add an adjustable miter groove set up for futher saftey but for now I will use as is.

Diggin i don't find the single blade i had to cut the right angle flat at the top of the lip to be wide enough. The dado allows me to get that width and more. It is all coming off in the second angle cut anyway. I use it adjusted to the thinnest setting. If it went thinner I would do so. I don't understand why I would want it wider either as I said it will all come off after in the second cut and that will dictate the final width. I just want that width to be a little wider than my single blade will give me. Also i am using it because it is the sharpest blade I got.

I saw Joe's fixture in person and it is a great fixture. I used some of his ideas in mine. I will end up using something similar for my next procedure. I just feel I will get more consistency in my first cut with the set up I am using now. I don't have the type of set up Joe has for his band saw so that is why I opted to go this route. I also find it not to be too messy as it is a very small cut and not much dust and it is pretty safe, at least for me, as the blade is only a small amount above the table. Of course you need to pay attention and accident's can happen to the best of us. I still may add an adjustable miter groove set up for futher saftey but for now I will use as is.

You are correct Paul not necessary the way you are doing it.

Diggin i don't find the single blade i had to cut the right angle flat at the top of the lip to be wide enough. The dado allows me to get that width and more. It is all coming off in the second angle cut anyway. I use it adjusted to the thinnest setting. If it went thinner I would do so. I don't understand why I would want it wider either as I said it will all come off after in the second cut and that will dictate the final width. I just want that width to be a little wider than my single blade will give me. Also i am using it because it is the sharpest blade I got.

I saw Joe's fixture in person and it is a great fixture. I used some of his ideas in mine. I will end up using something similar for my next procedure. I just feel I will get more consistency in my first cut with the set up I am using now. I don't have the type of set up Joe has for his band saw so that is why I opted to go this route. I also find it not to be too messy as it is a very small cut and not much dust and it is pretty safe, at least for me, as the blade is only a small amount above the table. Of course you need to pay attention and accident's can happen to the best of us. I still may add an adjustable miter groove set up for futher saftey but for now I will use as is.

next time you're over I'll explain further
hard for me to type what i am thinking

but why are you making a second cut?

I don't know how tall the flat spot is that is made by the flat teeth of the dado, but that should be all set with one cut.

i think he means his second cut as in the first angle cut for the top of the darter...
http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq116/eugenechoeaccount/100_1819.jpg

JOE, LOVE the CAMO DARTER:love:
GOOD LUCK GOOD PLUGGIN:biglaugh:

Thanks Eugene, I get that now

Diggin i don't find the single blade i had to cut the right angle flat at the top of the lip to be wide enough. The dado allows me to get that width and more. It is all coming off in the second angle cut anyway. I use it adjusted to the thinnest setting. If it went thinner I would do so. I don't understand why I would want it wider either as I said it will all come off after in the second cut and that will dictate the final width. I just want that width to be a little wider than my single blade will give me. Also i am using it because it is the sharpest blade I got.

I saw Joe's fixture in person and it is a great fixture. I used some of his ideas in mine. I will end up using something similar for my next procedure. I just feel I will get more consistency in my first cut with the set up I am using now. I don't have the type of set up Joe has for his band saw so that is why I opted to go this route. I also find it not to be too messy as it is a very small cut and not much dust and it is pretty safe, at least for me, as the blade is only a small amount above the table. Of course you need to pay attention and accident's can happen to the best of us. I still may add an adjustable miter groove set up for futher saftey but for now I will use as is.


I hear ya Paul, with out a large table and fence, my set up is worthless...ya gotta do with what ya have and feel comfortable with... over 25 years ago, I saw a good friend loose 3 fingers to a table saw while we were putting an addition on his house... to this day, every time I hear the high pitch whine of a table saw, a chill goes down my spine..

i have a few friends who have to trim one less finger nail. Our bandsaw at work is a real pissa saw, old and a very large table but the only problem is it has no slots and no fence and I want to try and do more things at home so that is my main obstacle. I could make a set up for it but would rather wait and get my own.

Thanks Lu, that is what I mean Bruce.

i have a few friends who have to trim one less finger nail. Our bandsaw at work is a real pissa saw, old and a very large table but the only problem is it has no slots and no fence and I want to try and do more things at home so that is my main obstacle. I could make a set up for it but would rather wait and get my own.

Thanks Lu, that is what I mean Bruce.

If I were to venture a guess, I'd guess Grob...

He has a 20" powermatic.

Paul, these things look like they work well. I think there are cheaper options, too. You can buy the magnetic switches separately at WC for about $15 (maybe more?) each. Pretty sure you could make your own removable bandsaw fence quickly

Carter MAG FENCE? Universal Magnetic Fence - Woodcraft.com (http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2021185/Carter-MAG-FENCE™--Universal-Magnetic-Fence/videos.aspx)

I rigged up a fence several years ago for it and keep it hidden in the shop. I have already rigged up a subplate with a miter groove in it that I just clamp to the table, hidden from the hacks at work too. I will be using them for the next slope cut most likely. I am very happy with the table saw set up and will stick to that at least for now.

I rigged up a fence several years ago for it and keep it hidden in the shop. I have already rigged up a subplate with a miter groove in it that I just clamp to the table, hidden from the hacks at work too. I will be using them for the next slope cut most likely. I am very happy with the table saw set up and will stick to that at least for now.

So they steal everything in sight at your shop too.... Happiness is good.... I just finished off( shaping and sealing) a dozen of those Small gibbs darters we were playing with... now if only I had a place to swim them close by...I'm still perplexed by the hook in the middle... they sit as they should in the water... I made a few from maple and a few from birch... the maple sits low in the water ( sealer), almost too low, I have a feeling after epoxy they will be sinkers... ...BTW, I through wired all of these...

have you thought about doing a laminated darter ?
WRC top and maple bottom ?
wouldn't sink as much

have you thought about doing a laminated darter ?
WRC top and maple bottom ?
wouldn't sink as much

Been thewe dont that.. I like Birch better than maple...Most folks fell in love with maple for darters before epoxy coating ( or epoxy sealing) came into voge... on some plugs made of maple, the added wright is enough to adversly effect the plug...

I think that other than seeing finished products, "Jig/fixture" threads are my favorite threads. One of my weak points for sure is making "jigs/fixtures."

Great stuff......