MSBA Action Alert--Stripers Forever Bill Could Pass- Only One Hearing--This Thursday 11 AM

On This coming Thursday January 14th at 11 am in Room A-2 of the State House The MA Joint Committee on Environment, Natural Resources and Agriculture is holding the One & Only Public Hearing on H796 which is formally named An Act relative to the conservation of Atlantic Striped Bass aka The Stripers Forever Bill.

MSBA sources inside the state house have informed MSBA that this legislation has momentum and if a large number of fishermen do not turn out to oppose the bill at the hearing MA Anglers may see the end of Commercial Striped Bass Fishing amongst other poor management measures contained in the bill. Rumor has it that Stripers Forever has three buses coming to the hearing, including one from Maine.We advise that those attending be sure to be in the room at 10 AM because the room is expected to reach max capacity well before 11 am. MSBA will be announcing a meeting place in the Quincy Area for members to meet and take the "

Some Background on this bill:

The main actions in this legislation are as follows:
1..."Commercial harvesting and sale of wild striped bass shall be prohibited in the commonwealth"
2..."It is unlawful to take or possess striped bass unless the fish are whole with head on and are between 20 and 26 inches total length or 40 inches and greater total length"
3..."It is unlawful to take or possess more than one (1) striped bass each day"

Many Months ago, the membership of the 60 Year Old MA Striped Bass Association voted unanimously to oppose this bill because of many reasons, the following is but a partial list:
1. The Commonwealth of MA has an established fisheries rulemaking process that includes the expert input of both it's Citizens, the MA Marine Fisheries Commission and The MA DMF. The management actions contained in H 796 should be vetted through that process so that peer reviewed science and vigorous public debate controlled by MEPA rules will ensure maximized public interaction be part of any proposed management action.
2. If the legislature is to set this precedent and begin including details of species management in legislation; anagement based on reacting to new and better data will be almost impossible to create. The uncertain amount of time it takes to move legislation through the State House process will cause all management actions to include large conservation buffers that will potentially limit access of the citizens to even a seemingly healthy resource such as Striped Bass.
3. An even more problematic result of the legislature getting into fisheries management details is the likely hood that at least one Commercial, Recreational and ENGO written bill will be introduced for each fisheries issue, and that can be dozens per year. The first three the MA Striped Bass Assn would like to introduce will be an "Act to Protect River Herring from at Sea Fishing Mortality", an "Act to Prevent Ecosystem Damage Caused by the Proliferation of Dogfish", and finally "An Act to Protect Atlantic Menhaden".
4. The already predicted scientific example of the proposed slot shows that this slot will cause a very large increase in Striped Bass fishing mortality as was seen when the same slot limit was enacted in the State Waters of Maine. When regulations allow anglers to harvest small, agressive and hungry juvinile fish the fishing mortality numbers rise sharply.
5. This legislation calls for all farm raised Stripers to bear a tag when displayed for sale. The measures contained in this legislation will cause a steep decline in the market for farm raised Striped Bass. There will be no need for farm raised Stripers if the ethnic populations that make up the majority of the farm raised Striped Bass market are able to harvest 20 inch fish from every bridge over every salt water estuary in the state.

Obviously, MSBA urges that all opposed to this legislation make time to attend the Hearing.

For more information check out http://www.msba.net/ (http://www.MSBA.net)

There are many threads on this bill just search Stripers Forever on this site!!!!!

Before many start debating...who is going to the hearing.

How will this affect the recreational fishermen?:confused:

Sounds like a great bill. I hope it passes.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Sounds like a great bill. I hope it passes.
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Except for:
1. The Commonwealth of MA has an established fisheries rulemaking process that includes the expert input of both it's Citizens, the MA Marine Fisheries Commission and The MA DMF. The management actions contained in H 796 should be vetted through that process so that peer reviewed science and vigorous public debate controlled by MEPA rules will ensure maximized public interaction be part of any proposed management action.
2. If the legislature is to set this precedent and begin including details of species management in legislation; anagement based on reacting to new and better data will be almost impossible to create. The uncertain amount of time it takes to move legislation through the State House process will cause all management actions to include large conservation buffers that will potentially limit access of the citizens to even a seemingly healthy resource such as Striped Bass.
3. An even more problematic result of the legislature getting into fisheries management details is the likely hood that at least one Commercial, Recreational and ENGO written bill will be introduced for each fisheries issue, and that can be dozens per year. The first three the MA Striped Bass Assn would like to introduce will be an "Act to Protect River Herring from at Sea Fishing Mortality", an "Act to Prevent Ecosystem Damage Caused by the Proliferation of Dogfish", and finally "An Act to Protect Atlantic Menhaden".
4. The already predicted scientific example of the proposed slot shows that this slot will cause a very large increase in Striped Bass fishing mortality as was seen when the same slot limit was enacted in the State Waters of Maine. When regulations allow anglers to harvest small, agressive and hungry juvinile fish the fishing mortality numbers rise sharply.
5. This legislation calls for all farm raised Stripers to bear a tag when displayed for sale. The measures contained in this legislation will cause a steep decline in the market for farm raised Striped Bass. There will be no need for farm raised Stripers if the ethnic populations that make up the majority of the farm raised Striped Bass market are able to harvest 20 inch fish from every bridge over every salt water estuary in the state."

this is a dangerous bill.
Just like the pogy bill, fisheries should not be managed by the legislature, period!

If the pogie bill in ri was attached to this bill, I would be all for both.. With the amendment that snagging hooks would be illegal. :hee:
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Well, I think it's naive to think that this doesn't set a dangerous precedent. If SF can get this bill passed, whats to stop PETA et al. from filing one???

As %$%$%$%$ed up as the present system can seem, IMHO fisheries are better managed by the existing framework instead of the legislature.

this isn't supposed to be a debate. BP was asking who was going

The people who go will be the guys with commercial licenses. I hope the look at the last 5 or 6 years of the young of the year index before they go.
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So, they should look at YOY index, but this bill would increase the mortality on 20-26" fish, which are 3-5/6 years old, effectively putting the target on those same fish this coming season...

managing these fish is not an easy task, but via the legislature is not the right move!

Well, I think it's naive to think that this doesn't set a dangerous precedent. If SF can get this bill passed, whats to stop PETA et al. from filing one???

As %$%$%$%$ed up as the present system can seem, IMHO fisheries are better managed by the existing framework instead of the legislature.

Bingo. Duck falls from ceiling.

Very dangerous precedent if fisheries management becomes the purview of the legislature. Just wait until Sate Rep Jones-Smith gets those calls about the "evil" fisherman from some more "influential" constituency. Or specific fisheries management items becomes a bargaining chip in the "you scratch my back I'll scratch yours" mentality of the state house.

So you guys would rather see the striped bass stocks continue to go down? look at how the system saved the striped bass last time there was a problem. It took people like bob pond and senator Chaffee to do it.
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Didn't the legislatures of some southern states (maybe Texas/Florida?) pass laws to protect redfish/snook because they couldn't get it done via management? Precedent may have already been set - just not in Mass. The northeast has always been a bit behind the times and very protectionist of tradition. I don't think this has as much negative impact on the recreational community as it is made out to have. I personally would welcome a smaller size limit with a protection of the larger fish.

DZ

Yes you are correct DZ. The precident has already been set. I hope rhode island adopts this bill as well.
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So you guys would rather see the striped bass stocks continue to go down? look at how the system saved the striped bass last time there was a problem. It took people like bob pond and senator Chaffee to do it.
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And perhaps instead of fighting through the legislature on an individual state maybe we should be pushing for a reduction with ASMFC to put a reduction on the total catch.

Didn't the legislatures of some southern states (maybe Texas/Florida?) pass laws to protect redfish/snook because they couldn't get it done via management? Precedent may have already been set - just not in Mass. The northeast has always been a bit behind the times and very protectionist of tradition. I don't think this has as much negative impact on the recreational community as it is made out to have. I personally would welcome a smaller size limit with a protection of the larger fish.

DZ

I'm all for a reduction Dennis, I also feel that while down south they may work to protect a stock, up here they will work to exclude fishermen at every point.

I don't think you can commercially take redfish in Florida John. What they did down there is a role model for what we should be doing up here.
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I don't think you can commercially take redfish in Florida John. What they did down there is a role model for what we should be doing up here.
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damned- i agree with eben again...:confused:

damned- i agree with eben again...:confused::love:
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Here's a "form letter"' feel free to use it if you share my concerns about this bill. At the MA house web page you can get email links for your local reps and the Natural Resource Committee.
http://www.mass.gov/legis/memmenuh.htm
Dear Rep.

I would like to express my opposition to the above referenced House bill #796 and ask your support in the rejection of the bill.

The MA Division of Marine Fisheries management of Striped Bass has been instrumental in the recovery of stocks to a level that allows for both a limited commercial fishery and a robust recreational fishery. The MA commercial bass fishery, a long established MA rod & reel only fishery, is highly monitored through the current reporting and quota system as is the striped bass fishery in general. Marine Fisheries managers have established "benchmark" levels that would trigger more restrictive conservation levels for the fishery. The current data on striped bass indicates that the biomass is in fact very healthy and the limited MA commercial fishery Total Allowable Catch (TAC) is well within the levels established to ensure a continued viable fishery.

Management of our fisheries should be the responsibility of those professionals the state has charged with that task. Fisheries management should never be driven by a special interest and this bill which has been submitted at the request of a private, out of state based group that has been a long standing opponent of any commercial fishery shows a total disregard for both our professional fisheries management and the economic welfare of our commercial fisherman.

Thank you for your consideration of my request.

Who cares what side of this bill you are on...those who do not show up get no say anyway...the real question is who is going to the hearing or is this all just some good old fashioned north east winter wind

damned- i agree with eben again...:confused:

me too, talk about dangerous precendents!

Who cares what side of this bill you are on...those who do not show up get no say anyway...the real question is who is going to the hearing or is this all just some good old fashioned north east winter wind

I'm planning on going, it works out because I've been working nights.
Geez, 11am is gonna be tough for the average person.

Boy it sure would be a shame if striped bass became a protected game fish. What a tragedy.
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Nebe, if you would like to be taken seriously why don't you get rid of that foolish picture of the woman washing her car. I think it speaks volumes about you!!

This was not a post for a debate, just a question . Who's going? I will be there.

funny, i NEVER took Nebe seriously until the carwashing video....

She's washing a car?

So who's going

funny, i NEVER took Nebe seriously until the carwashing video....

HAHAHAHA... :rotf2:

So who's going

I'll be there.

funny, i NEVER took Nebe seriously until the carwashing video....

It's gone, now we might have to read Nebe's posts. That does not imply after reading we have to take him seriously.

I find it interesting that if you don't go you have no say.

A fish that is three to six years old probably does not lay any eggs. But fish between 26"s and 40"s sure do. So if someone takes a 25 inch fish home for dinner that hasn't matured sexually, how can that be worse than taking home a 39"er that lays a gazillion eggs that you wont be able to take home if this bill passes.

God forbid the commercial guys can't catch 30 fish a day for up to four to eight weeks until the quota is met.

It's gone, now we might have to read Nebe's posts. That does not imply after reading we have to take him seriously.
I don't really care if someone takes me seriously or not. The fact of the matter is that the great rebound of the striped bass population is over. The bubble has burst so to speak and the numbers will continue to go down until the rules are changed.
Before the last crash there were many who were completely opposed to the moratorium stating the fact that they would loose money.... Either from selling the fish or from fishing charters. The people who are profiting now are doing so by the sacrifices everyone made by protecting the fish to allow a sustainable comeback. So I ask those who are opposed... Have you heard the saying " those who have not learned from history are doomed to repeat it"?????
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The fact of the matter is.... that that prior to the moritorium there was no daily limit and the size limit was 16"....and the fact of the matter is ...that neither you or SF has the expertise to deal with fisheries management. Why don't you "I know better than everyone else cause I can't catch a bass" faux fisheries managers either let those who have the job of managing do it....or go apply for the job yourselves. Maybe I'm wrong...you must have the education, expertise, etc to do the job because.....the fact of the matter is you sure as hell are acting like you do.

Eben for President! I have to agree with him! I could care less about the commercials......its all take, take, take......kill, kill, kill! I am all for going back to 1 fish per day at 34 inches! No commercial take!:uhuh:

Eben I could not agree with you more!

Eben for President! I have to agree with him! I could care less about the commercials......its all take, take, take......kill, kill, kill! I am all for going back to 1 fish per day at 34 inches! No commercial take!:uhuh:

Eben I could not agree with you more!

+1 and bring back the pic in your sig :drool:

I find it interesting that if you don't go you have no say.

A fish that is three to six years old probably does lay any eggs. But fish between 26"s and 40"s sure do. So if someone takes a 25 inch fish home for dinner that hasn't matured sexually, how can that be worse than taking home a 39"er that lays a gazillion eggs that you wont be able to take home if this bill passes.



The problem with your scenario is the 25" never had an opportunity to spawn before it was harvested, whereas the 39" fish spawned several times before it was taken.

[QUOTE=Swimmer;738355]I find it interesting that if you don't go you have no say."

Frank...It is Stripers Forever that is working to eliminate your input on this subject.

If the proponents of stricter regulations actually did the footwork, developed and presented the science and used the current system then we might actually have the series of hearings and vigorous public debate that many of us are yearning for including the MSBA Leadership.

Unfortunately, Stripers Forever took a grant from some hard core enviros...hired some lobbyists and influenced Rep. Matt Patrick (who happens to be Brad Burns of Stripers Forever's Summer Time Neighbor) to introduce the bill.

Does anyone think that Matt Patrick's refusal to meeet with the Falmouth Fishermen's Assn and the Falmouth Rod & Gun Club is any indicator that this is not an open public process.

One hearing in the middle of a weekday is the Stripers Forever way...the "system" many here complain about has hearings from 5-7pm in multiple locations iwth at least 30 days notice...required by law...not manipulated by Stripers forever high paid enviro attorney's.

If you want a say on this bill...tell the legislature to kick the subject to DMF and the MA Marine Fisheries Commission where it belongs. Your remember the last time we had a S-B hearing...that was the process then..and at least we got to speak and be a part of the process.

Hope to see you there on Thursday

This all may be a mute point anyway,I noticed the state of Conn. DPH in 2009 recommended women and children avoid eating any striped bass at all. Could there possibly be a time soon, when bass is deemed not fit for consumption.:huh:

Who cares what side of this bill you are on...those who do not show up get no say anyway...the real question is who is going to the hearing or is this all just some good old fashioned north east winter wind

I can't be there because of an appointment and in this economy , I have my priorities, but I'd like to think that an email will help to get some say. so if your statement is true, maybe I just won't bother to email then. I can accept the outcome. I wonder if there will be many commercial fishermen there.

If you can't be there call or email!!

Frank...It is Stripers Forever that is working to eliminate your input on this subject.

If the proponents of stricter regulations actually did the footwork, developed and presented the science and used the current system then we might actually have the series of hearings and vigorous public debate that many of us are yearning for including the MSBA Leadership.

....

One hearing in the middle of a weekday is the Stripers Forever way...the "system" many here complain about has hearings from 5-7pm in multiple locations iwth at least 30 days notice...required by law...not manipulated by Stripers forever high paid enviro attorney's.

You've summed up exactly the cause of many people's frustration - very little getting done because of the obstacle course that is set up to push new policy.

Having worked and sat through dozens of public hearings/meetings/conferences through my work, I've witnessed that very little ever gets accomplished from them aside from delaying action or a result of complete inaction. Every school teacher, retiree, college student, home-maker, engineer, and businessman that shows up is an "expert" on the subject and thinks they have detailed knowledge. For example, the Westwood Station development has taken over a year longer than expected due to needing a hearing before just about every decision could be finalized.

Why exactly should the average fishermen have a say? Unless you have performed detailed research or reviewed multiple competent studies, how can an informed opinion be presented? Fisherman are already somewhat dismissed by the enviros for being selfish and destructive - presenting unsupported misinformation will only give them more ammo. SF is highly organized, and as such, more than likely has the qualifying materials (biased or not) to support there policy push. Unfortunately, "I have been fishing for 30 years" isn't perceived as credibility at these hearings.

If recreational fishermen truly want more control over fisheries management, then they need to support the people/groups that can perform the research necessary to support/contradict regulations and not let groups like SF or the commercial fishing industry continue dumping money until they get what they want.

The problem with your scenario is the 25" never had an opportunity to spawn before it was harvested, whereas the 39" fish spawned several times before it was taken.

it's simple economics... a 25" fish still has a chance to be eaten by Seals, tuna and other sea going fish eaters... a 39" fish is getting up there in size... good chance it wont be eaten by a seal or tuna.. also a good chance that it will live until it dies of old age or is eaten or mis handled by a fisherman...and to top it off the small ones are better eating with less waste when processed.

"I could care less about the commercials"

Funny I have been looking to pick up some tuna poppers...figured I'd spend my money locally. Suddenly changed my mind...I could care less about local plug makers.

Its ok...I don't make tuna poppers!:) I also do not curb my opinions to cater to folks! I have an opinion and I do not keep it in check because I might be afraid of hurting business!:cool: There are plenty of other builders out there.....don't be afraid to use them!

it's simple economics... a 25" fish still has a chance to be eaten by Seals, tuna and other sea going fish eaters... a 39" fish is getting up there in size... good chance it wont be eaten by a seal or tuna.. also a good chance that it will live until it dies of old age or is eaten or mis handled by a fisherman...and to top it off the small ones are better eating with less waste when processed.


I see this as an arguement to leave the little fish alone...bottom line is that the little fish are roughly 75 % males that do get hammerred by seals etc (the percentage is debateable but it is definatey way aboe half male to half female)...to get the year class numbers over the past dozen years we have needed this ratio of males to females

This slot will kill a lot of those little fish and the seals etc will still eat what they eat rducing the mumbers even further. If the little fish are devastated so will the ratio of males to females causing future year classes to drop even mor without spawning...I don't state this...fisheries scientists state this

The speculation and guess work science being thrown around this board is the same that was done to Bob Pond when all the so called "high liners" were laughing at him and he was preaching the use of science.

Good science is not why SF is going to the legislature...the fact is they just can't get their junk by ASMFC.

For the record and because I am the only one on this board that actually has been attending the recent ASMFC Striped Bass meetings, there are multiple concerns with the SB stock and the scientists are at the end process of the analysis of certain problems as we..science based solutions that look like they will work work will be enacted as is written in the managment plan.

We need to set limits according to science and not guess work no matter how good pounding our chest makes any of us feel. Its nice to pound your chest and demand this or that but they did that with the slot limit in Maine and now a few years later they have no fish left. They kill all the bait and all the little fish on their coast and wonder what happenned. Sure let's blamit on ASMFC...Maine chose to harvest baby stripers not ASMFC.

If you really want to help then donate and support the organizations doing the real work at the places the work is really done

we all S/B concerned .. @ 1st I didn,t think it had a chance / but now with the backing of this wacked out other group & their issue of disposable lures & etc;
this //if pasted could start a ball rolling that for those that live long enough .......... ya won,t be back @ blue-gill fishing ;
I was going to say Golfing ...but then they will be going against damaging the grass & possiable damage to trees & ponds ;;

WTF /way too far :smash:

"Its ok...I don't make tuna poppers"
Through wired, wood plugs...I would have thought they would hold up to the tuna abuse...guess not huh! :devil2:

I certainly don't begrudge anyone their opinion and input...it's when someone tries to shove their opinion down everyone else's throat that I get a little.....upset.

I expressed my opinion and you took exception to it! I have further opinions about what I do not like about the commercial laws but I doubt you want to hear them! Have enough respect to respect someone's opinion whether you agree with it or not! I do!:uhuh: Then you drag out that other crap about plugs and "I am not gonna buy them from you"...because you don't like my opinion?? What the hell is that all about??!!

I hardly think "voicing" my opinion is "shoving my opinion down anyones throat"?!

I'm in favor of the bill.

Clearly drastic conservation measures need to be put in place before it's too late. All opposed haven't been paying attention or simply don't care or choose to look beyond their own selfish agendas and what's happening in their own backyard.

Mortality is a huge part of the picture and I'm for any measures taken with a plan to reduce it. Sounds like dropping the two fish per day limit to one and prohibiting commercial harvesting would be a step in the right direction.

Wait until the fishing falls off in MA like it has up here in Maine.

Wait until the fishing falls off in MA like it has up here in Maine.

Some attribute that falling off to the slot limit in your state.

it's simple economics... a 25" fish still has a chance to be eaten by Seals, tuna and other sea going fish eaters... a 39" fish is getting up there in size... good chance it wont be eaten by a seal or tuna.. also a good chance that it will live until it dies of old age or is eaten or mis handled by a fisherman....

Are you serious? :doh:

BF...respect!!! "I could care less about the commercials" Read your own post before you start to get "high & mighty" with me!

I have not seen one bit of factual info. presented in this post by those opposed to the commercial SB fishery. Just a bunch of IMO's. Informed opinions or factual presentations...hardly...just a lot of "I know better" because I'm a self styled expert that knows more than...everyone I don't agree with.

As far as not buying your plugs...Since we're almost neighbors I have looked at your plugs recently and if you weren't closed for the season I would have already ordered a few as I'd rather support my local, fellow fishermen than send $50 overseas...but I don't give my $$ to PETA, HSUSA, or Stripers "For Us" and I won't be giving my $$ to any business that supports a "political end around" rather than professional fisheries management. Of course...that's just my opinion and like you, I don't curb my opinions either.

The bottom line is by the time they get around to having a public get together they have allready made up their collectives minds. I still hope those that support the bill go and get their way. But to be fair we ned to raise the minimum size back to 36" and everyone just gets one feeesh. They never go to a vote unless they no the outcome beforehand. None of the reps want to look like losers.

Whatever......your entire argument is pretty childish. When you take a discussion and make it personal....I will not entertain such childish antics. I do not think there should be a commercial striper fishery...is there a problem with that? I think you took my comment out of context and took it as a personal attack. We disagree......can't you respectfully disagree?

I'm would be in favor of dropping the catch to one fish @ 28", 34" or 36" -- whatever the science says is the right number to ensure the health of the species.

How anyone thinks the targeting of Baby Bass is going to help the species is absolutely beyond me.
Frankly, anyone taking or advocating the taking of 20" pre-spawn bass ought to be ashamed of themselves.

p.s. - I don't care how good they taste.

when maine went to slot limits, did it help or make things worse ?
i'm confused about this whole thing, i plan on going to the state house to hear both sides, i have a couple of freinds (state reps)on the natural resource commitee, i hope to get their ear before to see what they have to say.
something has to be done before it's to late.

It made it worse.

Maine's mortality numbers went up exponentially, and their fishing went into the toilet.

So now to solve their problem, they want to extend their failed system to Mass -- Great Plan.

i hear ya, taking 20'' fish makes no sense at all,

BF- Childish antics...Whatever...I guess when you have no valid arguement other than "IMO" you might as well try to deflect the discussion there. Here's the rub BF...this is very personal to me. I have been commercial fishing for stripers since the 1950's and nothing gets much more personal than someone taking $$ out of your pocket for their own selfish reasons. Now I read your "take,take take...kill, kill,kill" post so I figure you & most of the "anti's" are probably saying I'm just as selfish. Maybe...but here's the difference; I don't have the marine fisheries degree that would qualify me to be making the decisions so I let the pro's (not the pol's) make those decisions. They allow a quota fishery; I'm fishing..they don't, based on actual "best science" management, and I'm not. It's that simple.

"I do not think there should be a commercial striper fishery...is there a problem with that?"
Not at all; again your opinion...but since I don't think you have a PHD in Marine Fisheries, I don't think you are qualified to make that decision for everyone else. I posted somewhere else about the similarities between this SF bill to the Animal Rights agenda driven Question 1 we had shoved down our throats several years back. Big outside $$, fringe science and outright lies, demonize blood thirsty hunters ; then just convince an uneducated public to vote against the professional opinions of DF&W and virtually every other real conservation agency and voila!! We're up to our ears in beaver flooding problems, coyotes are everywhere and if not for the common sense of those making F&G Board appointments, we would have animal rights groups controling our Fish& Game Board. Now I guess an animal rights idiot would say the end justifies the means. Frankly, I can't believe that any sportsman would support this type of political influence peddling.

Do you possess a PHD in Marine Fisheries? Guess probably not so the fact that you fish commercially for money makes you MORE righteous in your opinion? My feeling is that the stock is overfished by the commercial sector Sokinwet and it needs to change or the stocks will once again be depleted! As was aid earlier "We will be doomed to repeat history". You do not like/respect my opinion because it flies in the face of your opinion so instead of discussing it like a rational person (which.....you obviously are not) you choose to stoop to getting personal and acting like a child by trying to attack what you know of me i.e the fact that I build and sell plugs. Are you going to be there Thursday fighting for what you believe?

BF - Unlike you, I realize my opinion is just that...my opinion. " I don't have the marine fisheries degree that would qualify me to be making the decisions so I let the pro's (not the pol's) make those decisions" Guess you didn't really read what I said...not a surprise.

As far as "my" childish, personal attacks...I believe I said I wouldn't be spending my money supporting a business that doesn't give a dam about fellow fisherman! But then again that's just the childish, not very rational side of me coming out...probably hard to understand you being such a stand up guy that would never stoop to personal attacks.

As far as being at the hearing; unfortunately I cannot attend due but be assured that I have contacted my rep and the members of the NR Committee.
PS Would you like me to tell you who your's is in case you feel like doing the same.

I was commenting on the fact that you also did not have a PHD....I most certainly read what you write. Man, your tone is just so harsh that I think you are in fact incapable of a mature discussion. I most certainly have respected your opinion without belittling you. You carry on though and happy fishing!:)

Hey Patrick, how many college degrees do you have?

It made it worse.

Maine's mortality numbers went up exponentially, and their fishing went into the toilet.

So now to solve their problem, they want to extend their failed system to Mass -- Great Plan.

Striped Bass are a highly migratory fish that go where the bait is. Maine is on the relative edge of their Northern range. If they didn't migrate from halfway down the coast to Maine and back every year, I'd agree with you, but I can't see how a slot in Maine is the sole reason their fishery has sucked as of late. Maybe Massachusetts having 2 @ 28" is why Maine's fishery sucks now. Fewer fish making it past the gauntlet.

I'd really like to see some actual evidence anywhere that goes one way or the other for/against the slot - not "I called a guy I know" or "their fishing sucks. they have a slot. so the slot must be why the fishing sucks."

Anyone know if these people @ Stripers Forever look to get the R.I season closed down also ?

Striped Bass are a highly migratory fish that go where the bait is. Maine is on the relative edge of their Northern range. If they didn't migrate from halfway down the coast to Maine and back every year, I'd agree with you, but I can't see how a slot in Maine is the sole reason their fishery has sucked as of late. Maybe Massachusetts having 2 @ 28" is why Maine's fishery sucks now. Fewer fish making it past the gauntlet.

I'd really like to see some actual evidence anywhere that goes one way or the other for/against the slot - not "I called a guy I know" or "their fishing sucks. they have a slot. so the slot must be why the fishing sucks."

I agree with this especially when you realize that in much of Virginia and Maryland (the bay and river areas) the size limit is 18"-28". In these areas there is a huge number of fisherman and and they have no idea or belief in catch and release. I would bet they kill more fish in a weekend than Maine killed in it's best year.

I would ask that if a fishery is at a point where you limit the general public to only 2 fish a day, why is it acceptable to have a commercial fishery. Not saying I want to see the limits increased.

I would ask that if a fishery is at a point where you limit the general public to only 2 fish a day, why is it acceptable to have a commercial fishery. Not saying I want to see the limits increased.

I would guess that it is because there are exponentially more recs than comms and it *should* be relatively easy to track and limit the take by the comms.

Recs are pretty much unregulated in how much they can take outside of the daily bag limits and the season is open year round (even though the fish aren't really here year round).

Anyone know if these people @ Stripers Forever look to get the R.I season closed down also ?

I think its just a matter of time before they spread their agenda up and down the Coast.....

I dont want to put lighter fluid on a wild fire but, the problems in Maine (the lack of fish) are not caused by the slot limit. I just finished #^&#^&#^&#^& Russels Striper Wars and the problem is that the fish that migrate to Maine are for the most part Chesapeake fish. The problem is that the chesapeake is in bad shape. Look at the young of the year indexes look at the destruction of the menhaden population that filters the waters of the bay and provides food for the bass. Huge portions of the bay are dead zones. The problems with the bass in maine are not related to the slot limits. The real problems with the bass are not so simple to put a finger on. That being stated I still am in favor of making bass a non commercial species. I hope they win at the state house.

Anyone know if these people @ Stripers Forever look to get the R.I season closed down also ?

This is the point often missed. Many people are looking at this as just a Mass issue. SF is trying to get two or three of the states that allow commercial fishing to stop. If they got three states to stop then the ASMFC would have a much stronger recreational lean. Hoping that in the end this would lead to a more conservative approach by the board. SF is concentrating there efforts in the Northeast because they know the people up here are more open and concerned about protecting the fish, as compared to Virginia.

I dont want to put lighter fluid on a wild fire but, the problems in Maine (the lack of fish) are not caused by the slot limit. I just finished #^&#^&#^&#^& Russels Striper Wars and the problem is that the fish that migrate to Maine are for the most part Chesapeake fish. The problem is that the chesapeake is in bad shape. Look at the young of the year indexes look at the destruction of the menhaden population that filters the waters of the bay and provides food for the bass. Huge portions of the bay are dead zones. The problems with the bass in maine are not related to the slot limits. The real problems with the bass are not so simple to put a finger on. That being stated I still am in favor of making bass a non commercial species. I hope they win at the state house.

This has been my exact point all along. People are quick to say that Maine's fishing sucks because they have a slot, but there appears to be little evidence to back either position - maybe it has, maybe it hasn't but there is no way to tell.

Correlation does not prove causation.

This is the point often missed. Many people are looking at this as just a Mass issue. SF is trying to get two or three of the states that allow commercial fishing to stop. If they got three states to stop then the ASMFC would have a much stronger recreational lean. Hoping that in the end this would lead to a more conservative approach by the board. SF is concentrating there efforts in the Northeast because they know the people up here are more open and concerned about protecting the fish, as compared to Virginia.

Good. I hope this helps push an eventual coast-wide gamefish status for the Striped Bass. As Makai stated, some studies are showing that women and children shouldn't eat it anyway.

Check out this pretty much sums it up

Telegram.com - A product of the Worcester Telegram & Gazette (http://www.telegram.com/article/20100112/COLUMN10/1120461)

Sums up the opponent's side of the argument. Otherwise, nothing he states is really supported.

I agree with his statements about pollution in the Chesapeake and with regards to protecting the bait. Otherwise, his only arguments against the bill is that commercial fisherman won't make money on the fish and the commercial quota will be redistributed to the recreational fisherman, which doesn't make any sense since the recreational take is so poorly tracked.

Gamefish status is the way to go.

Hopefully some of you are going to this today, I can't make it due to work.

As shattered as opinions are in this thread and in the angling community, we're screwed in the long run because we will be divided into pieces and consumed in those pieces.

Some People just dont get it.... If an extremist FlyFishing group like stripers Forever could band together and totally close the commercial fishery down in Mass because the fishing sucks in maine is really unbelievable... I would love to see some PETA Seal loving group band 3 bus loads together and shut downthe entire Cape Beaches from Race Point to Chatham just so the Seals can be unbothered and Happy. What the hell is the difference? The closings of entire areas can be next, just because its done offshore doesnt mean it wont get done on the surf. Hell they are trying to do it down certain beaches here in NJ due to the "Animal-Like" behevior of certain people fishing the beaches, the trash, fish racks, etc... I love how NJ is a "Green" Gamefish state according to StripersForever but they kill more fish than probably a combination of states with the regular rec catch and the 360,000 lb bonus AKA BS Commercial Quota...
There have been seasonal weather and bait pattern changes that I am sure affected Maine..... Maine is on the upper end of the northern migrational Patterns as is North Carolina to the south. Look at North Carolina this year, somehow I dont think they will get much or any of the Commercial Quota filled because the ocean temp is the coldest its been in year 41, and the bait and the fish have move well outside of three miles and will probably stay there along with the many other bodies. Its probably been a decade since surfcasters had a good shot at them down there. Hell I remember running down there in the late 90's and chasing those fish down the beach from Duck, Kitty Hawk to hatteras... The Bait was inshore so is the fish. I remember walking down to the mouth of the saco river years back, surfcasting at night... My wife caught her first Maine Striper there. The amount of bait at the river mouth was unbelievable. Alot of the bait has moved offshore so have the bass, just a fact, look at Stelwagon, gulf of maine. Why come inshore and scrap for crusteceans??? That cant sustain those big bodies of fish, thats why they show with the Herring runs, Mullet runs, Bunker runs, Mackeral and squid....
Here off NJ Ive been fishing 2-3 miles offshore with my charters, mostly by myself... Hell I even filmed a tv show there this past June which I put up on my FB page. It will air sometime this month... Gotta see the bites I get there, by myself....Where is land? Where are the boats?
Some people hate the thought of commercial fisherman. They are on the Extremist Side that feels Striped Bass should be a gamefish, no one should be allowed to kill one, (Unless of course they want a 20" slot), and the fish should be there to provide catch and release pleasure like a child going to the park.....
On the other end of the spectrum we have the Diehard Commercial Guy....Kill everything by any means necassary until there is nothing left and make lots of $$$ on it! Mindless barbarians that think Fish are an unlimited resource....
I would hope that we all on this board were a median having respect for both commercial and rec, because we both do need to coexist and work together to preserve a fishery that we mutually want to be healthy for us, our kids, grand kids and so on.
I whole Heartedly agree with what John R Said, We are screwed in the Long run because we will be divided in pieces and consumed in those pieces....

Some People just dont get it.... If an extremist FlyFishing group like stripers Forever could band together and totally close the commercial fishery down in Mass because the fishing sucks in maine is really unbelievable... I would love to see some PETA Seal loving group band 3 bus loads together and shut downthe entire Cape Beaches from Race Point to Chatham just so the Seals can be unbothered and Happy. What the hell is the difference? The closings of entire areas can be next, just because its done offshore doesnt mean it wont get done on the surf. Hell they are trying to do it down certain beaches here in NJ due to the "Animal-Like" behevior of certain people fishing the beaches, the trash, fish racks, etc... I love how NJ is a "Green" Gamefish state according to StripersForever but they kill more fish than probably a combination of states with the regular rec catch and the 360,000 lb bonus AKA BS Commercial Quota...
There have been seasonal weather and bait pattern changes that I am sure affected Maine..... Maine is on the upper end of the northern migrational Patterns as is North Carolina to the south. Look at North Carolina this year, somehow I dont think they will get much or any of the Commercial Quota filled because the ocean temp is the coldest its been in year 41, and the bait and the fish have move well outside of three miles and will probably stay there along with the many other bodies. Its probably been a decade since surfcasters had a good shot at them down there. Hell I remember running down there in the late 90's and chasing those fish down the beach from Duck, Kitty Hawk to hatteras... The Bait was inshore so is the fish. I remember walking down to the mouth of the saco river years back, surfcasting at night... My wife caught her first Maine Striper there. The amount of bait at the river mouth was unbelievable. Alot of the bait has moved offshore so have the bass, just a fact, look at Stelwagon, gulf of maine. Why come inshore and scrap for crusteceans??? That cant sustain those big bodies of fish, thats why they show with the Herring runs, Mullet runs, Bunker runs, Mackeral and squid....
Here off NJ Ive been fishing 2-3 miles offshore with my charters, mostly by myself... Hell I even filmed a tv show there this past June which I put up on my FB page. It will air sometime this month... Gotta see the bites I get there, by myself....Where is land? Where are the boats?
Some people hate the thought of commercial fisherman. They are on the Extremist Side that feels Striped Bass should be a gamefish, no one should be allowed to kill one, (Unless of course they want a 20" slot), and the fish should be there to provide catch and release pleasure like a child going to the park.....
On the other end of the spectrum we have the Diehard Commercial Guy....Kill everything by any means necassary until there is nothing left and make lots of $$$ on it! Mindless barbarians that think Fish are an unlimited resource....
I would hope that we all on this board were a median having respect for both commercial and rec, because we both do need to coexist and work together to preserve a fishery that we mutually want to be healthy for us, our kids, grand kids and so on.
I whole Heartedly agree with what John R Said, We are screwed in the Long run because we will be divided in pieces and consumed in those pieces....

hear, hear....

I've already stated my thoughts on this subject, but mark my words on what I am about to say.... If this bill passes it will pass because massachussetts wants to insure that they are doing their part to protect a valuable resource- income from saltwater fishing liscense. The low fee thus year will go up... Watch. But the rub is that they and other states who realize they can capitalize off of this have to make sure there I a reason to buy one...
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Saltwater license is coming anyway... Lets see who has saltwater licenses NC, VA, MD, DE, CT, NY.... Who is left NJ, RI, MA??? You know that wont last...CT went up 300% since 09 for Non Res..Charter licenses went up from $200-$400 in both NY and CT.

I hear some welfare organization is banding together and heading up from NY to Mass to push a bill for a saltwater license, if recreational anglers can go out and have "Fun" catching striped bass they should pay for it and give the money to the less fortunate! ;-))

I don't see this bill passing in its current form. SF is asking for too much too quick. It may pass over time in smaller chunks, beginning with a one fish per day limit, then size change, then commercial ban. I say its a no go and more of a publicity stunt to garner attention and support for the next assault.

Some People just dont get it.... If an extremist FlyFishing group like stripers Forever could band together and totally close the commercial fishery down in Mass because the fishing sucks in maine is really unbelievable......

I wouldn't call them extremist, but they certainly have a self serving agenda. I have to believe the legislature is going to take the same view and tell them to stuff it.

I get it. And Pew gets it, too. When fishermen fail to reign in their overuse of the resource they only further demonstrate their inability to be objective stewards of the environment we (the entire public) share. That greatly strengthens Pew's position.

Being "right" and having a lot of money and a unified focus means Pew is soon going to be calling the shots. That will mean MPSs. The places that make the most sense for Marine Protected Sanctuaries are Stellwagen (already a protected area of sorts), the outer Cape (off the National seashore), and Nomans...(already a wildlife reserve). Of course there will also be shore areas that become off limits.

This bill will fail, and all of us will eventually suffer for it. If you like to fish for striped bass.....not make a living from them (as valid a use as that is).....gamefish status and greatly reduced recreational take was your best hope.

This bill will fail, and all of us will eventually suffer for it. If you like to fish for striped bass.....not make a living from them (as valid a use as that is).....gamefish status and greatly reduced recreational take was your best hope.

I could not agree more.

I could not agree more.

Yes, let's make it a Gamefish, just like it is in NJ right??
Stripersforever wants to make it a gamefish but let's recreational guys keep a slot fish... Selfish, no??? Hypocrits???

From what I hear the meeting is still going, over 3 hours.... Heard it's pretty good... Guess StripersForever weren't welcome in open arms....
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Can you believe how much support Stripersforever recieved??? .5 percent, yup...
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Solution......:smash:.Ban all recreational and commercial fishing on eastern seaboard...designate all coastal waters(including bays and rivers and shorelines) MPAs...........bring down the Newfoundlanders/Labradorians for the sealing project....focus on developing aquaculture/rearing great whites for release.......and now with all our spare time........meet at The Colony Tap in P-town(during the safer off season-less tourists)...I'm buying(non drinkers soft drinks):buds: and all of us can reminisce about the good old days of angling:fishin:...:rotf2:...............before all this confusion leads us down the road to the loss of our respective life styles................................:confused:.. ......:wall:

Wish they would hold these sessions at night.
So the full time working stiffs could attend.:realmad:

Most of us have to work to save money for our fishing permits!!!:fury::fury::fury::fury:

Not the rich retired yuppies representing stripers forever... Their intentions may be in the right place. But they are ignorant on placing the blame in the wrong place... Coms took 10 percent of the catch...

Most of my charter capt friends this time of year are sleeping to 11 and getting fatter.
Piss me off with jealosy.

It sucks to work 7 days a week without a day oFf for 6 months in a row...
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You don"t have to tell me, I've carried a 50 to 55 hr full time construction job with a weekend bartending gig for almost 30 yrs and it still aint enough. Next wife is gonna be rich though.

There is something to be said for working on the water. When I mate for my buddies charter or when I comm bassed, tired as I was I didn't feel it was work, like the trenches I dig, all the barroom brawls I've been in. I enjoyed being on the water too much.
I need a do over.

What were the final conclusions of the hearing ?

My guess: everyone had so much fun today that they are going to go away and study the issue some more..........

Is there some reason I am missing that makes it a comm. vs. rec issue? Shouldn't this discussion be about how many fish are being killed? I don't care who the frig is taken em. Dead fish is dead fish.

Its a tough one to study... Comms kill 10%, Recs kill 90%... And SF is Blaming the Mass Coms...

Its a tough one to study... Comms kill 10%, Recs kill 90%... And SF is Blaming the Mass Coms...


The other part of the argument is that the recs represent 99.99% of the anglers and generate 90% of the economic impact.

So you take out the comms , give the rec guys a bonus tag allotment, (Commercial quota 1.1 mil lbs) for an extra fish and you will have a healthy striped bass stock I take.... Who will you have to blame then???? I guess the 10% economic impact doesnt mean anything so just throw it out only rec guys should kill fish....

Trying to understand this economic impact.... If I take my clients out on a charter and the limit is 2 fish per man at 28", that will equate to 10 dead bass a trip...Now lets say you got the bonus tag like you do here in NJ its 15.... Im no mathmetician but if it were a 1 fish limit per man than thats 5 dead bass and results in far fewer fish killed recreationally and overall. The economic impact stays the same if they kill 5, 10, or 15 fish on a trip???? The more they kill the more thats given away to nieghbors or frozen and forgoten...
A 1 fish limit would reduce a 10 million pound catch to probably around 5 million.
Look, almost everybody I know that charters, or fishes recreationally KILLS their limit. The response I get is, "The law says I can kill two so Im Killing two"

Relax........Pew plans to sort this all out for us. Enjoy. :grins:

The other part of the argument is that the recs represent 99.99% of the anglers and generate 90% of the economic impact.

I understand that...to some extent. However, I am not convinced that I should be able to keep a bass every day I fish, but someone else who doesn't fish can't go to a nice restaurant and get a bass fillet during a limited season. It is all about total numbers to me. Economic impact wise, having a healthy fish population is what is needed to keep recs fishing. Even if I could never keep a bass, I would still fish. Not the case for the commercial guys.

Stuff needs to be fixed, but cutting the commercials out doesn't seem to be necessary to me, but I am open to all points on this. I would actually be much happier to have a limited commercial season and not allow recs to keep fish over 40".

"I would still fish. Not the case for the commercial guys. "

I don't agree. Most every commercial guy I know fishes before, during and after the commercial season.

Most of my charter capt friends this time of year are sleeping to 11 and getting fatter.
Piss me off with jealosy.



I highly doubt the "sleeping till 11" statement !

A big thanks to all that came out to the State House for the public hearing today. Anyone that attended clearly saw that there is overwhelming public opposition to the legislation. The Stripers Forever advocates could not even answer basic questions from committee members and pretty much imploded when asked to justify/defend their proposals. They had their chance to make their case and failed miserably.

Although some forces wish to use this legislation to fire up a feud between the Rod & Reel Commercial Fleet and the Recreational Fishing Community, MSBA will not allow that to interfere with ongoing political unity and actions that can truely make a difference and bring improvement to some issues we all know exist. For example, it is only when acting as one community can we make progress in the campaign to bring change to the Atlantic Herring Fishery (especially the rape of our local waters by Mid Water Trawl and Pair Trawl Gear) or make sure that the next round of Striped Bass Management actions at the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission adresses known issues. Together We Can!!!

A big thanks to the following organizations for turning out members and participating in today's actions:

Cape Cod Charter Boat Assn.
Cape Cod Commercial Hook Fisherman's Assn
Cape Cod Salties
MA Beach Buggy Assn
MV/Chilmark/Dukes County Fishing Group
New Bedford/Marion Fishing Group
North East Charter Boat Assn
RFA MA
Stellwagen Bank Charter Captains Assn
(If we missed anyone, we apologize)

I highly doubt the "sleeping till 11" statement !

You don't know my friends Ron.
If I pop in on them when I 'm in the area this time of year
They are still in their slippers at lunch.

Hell I know lots of guys out of work who see no need to get up early, just killing time hoping something breaks. I am lucky that I have more work than I can handle. Or I might be doing the same thing.
Are you taking charters out of Boston in January ? Because that's my point I was poking fun at my pals, it was meant as a joke.

Boy it sure would be a shame if striped bass became a protected game fish. What a tragedy.
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indeed.

......and, I know the drill: people forget I spent 7 years on the ASMFC SB Advisory Panel-when I made a strong statement(based on scientific& reliable anecdotal fisherman observation) for the betterment of the resource--I was not reappointed by the Governor...so it goes..(and..at times I miss fly'n down to Wash DC, the 5 star hotel accomodations, 1 liter bottle of Fuji water on the dresser, and the 3 lbs. lobster dinners lol)
...........I thank you all for computer reports on the hearing along with Kenny's text messages(would have attended-but the flu bug found me..)
...............responsible multiple use of natural resources is the only way to go............................................

Is there some reason I am missing that makes it a comm. vs. rec issue? Shouldn't this discussion be about how many fish are being killed? I don't care who the frig is taken em. Dead fish is dead fish.

exactly

this is all about divide and conquer

peta's laughing all the way to their next law suit

i wouldn't doubt it if they have ties or made contributions to stripers for ever.

"I would still fish. Not the case for the commercial guys. "

I don't agree. Most every commercial guy I know fishes before, during and after the commercial season.

true that

Yes, let's make it a Gamefish, just like it is in NJ right??
Stripersforever wants to make it a gamefish but let's recreational guys keep a slot fish... Selfish, no??? Hypocrits???

From what I hear the meeting is still going, over 3 hours.... Heard it's pretty good... Guess StripersForever weren't welcome in open arms....
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Gamefish status coast-wide. 1/day @ 36"+. Every fish gets at least a few years to spawn diversifying the gene pool, no one needs more than that for family consumption.

Like many have said before, unless you're a commercial fisherman, why would you want anything less than Gamefish status?

Today they aregue that gamefish status means 1 fish at whatever sixe limit...a short time after that goes into effect they come back and say gamefish status means no take catch and release only...that is the play book....this is proven and our defense is responsible tru peer reviewed science based management

Gamefish status coast-wide. 1/day @ 36"+. Every fish gets at least a few years to spawn diversifying the gene pool, no one needs more than that for family consumption.

Like many have said before, unless you're a commercial fisherman, why would you want anything less than Gamefish status?

Your speaking for a small surfcasting group and the majority of flyrodders.... I like the 36" limit, 1 fish, said it before. But how is that fair to the com guys.... Its still a fish, doesnt make it right for the recs to harvest them but not the coms.... Kind of a double standard??? You want a Gamefish, but want to be allowed to kill fish too???

Today they aregue that gamefish status means 1 fish at whatever sixe limit...a short time after that goes into effect they come back and say gamefish status means no take catch and release only...that is the play book....this is proven and our defense is responsible tru peer reviewed science based management

Even better.

Your speaking for a small surfcasting group and the majority of flyrodders.... I like the 36" limit, 1 fish, said it before. But how is that fair to the com guys.... Its still a fish, doesnt make it right for the recs to harvest them but not the coms.... Kind of a double standard??? You want a Gamefish, but want to be allowed to kill fish too???

You're forgetting that it's not what I want, it's what is best for the fish. The situation that would be absolutely best for the fish is no take at all, and if that happens eventually, all the better. I very rarely keep bass anyway. Unless you're a meat fisherman (commercial or rec.), there is no reason not to support gamefish status.

You're misdirected if you think regulation is about fairness.

I know you want whats best for the fish, so do I, as do all I would hope.... Im not arguing that... The problem is your with a very small group if fishermen that want a catch and release fishery for themselves. define Gamefish for me please? New jeresy is a Gamefish State, So you dont have a problem with me killing 12,000 lbs on my charters in May and June, but you have a problem with me killing 11,500 lbs in mass July and august because Im killing them and then selling them???

Just because you RARELY Keep a bass doesnt mean others should.... I happen to eat Bass regularly, so does my family, whats wrong with that??? You want to have people dictate what your allowed to eat or not?

Its a shared resource that needs to be shared, and managed properly...

Your in the Group that thinks Recs should take a 100% of the Catch, how is that right?? You see what a small group you represent clearly on the showing for stripers forever yesterday... How may members do they have???

I know you want whats best for the fish, so do I, as do all I would hope.... Im not arguing that... The problem is your with a very small group if fishermen that want a catch and release fishery for themselves. define Gamefish for me please? New jeresy is a Gamefish State, So you dont have a problem with me killing 12,000 lbs on my charters in May and June, but you have a problem with me killing 11,500 lbs in mass July and august because Im killing them and then selling them???
Game fish status as I understand it is no commercial take and severely limited Rec take. If "Jersey Shore" on MTV has taught us anything, it's that NJ shouldn't be taken as the rule with regards to anything.

Just because you RARELY Keep a bass doesnt mean others should.... I happen to eat Bass regularly, so does my family, whats wrong with that??? You want to have people dictate what your allowed to eat or not?
There is a lot wrong with it, if you have read recent reports concerning mercury and PCP content in Striped Bass. As Makia stated, some studies have shown that women and children shouldn't eat *any* striped bass.

Its a shared resource that needs to be shared, and managed properly...
Exactly. And the most effective way to properly manage it is to drastically limit how many fish can be taken. The tons of juvenile SB being netted in the Chesapeake isn't doing anyone any favors, nor is 2 fish @ 28" for Recs or 30 fish/day and 5 on Sundays for Comms.

Let's lay it all out there. You're a commercial guy and you run charters. Legislation like this would certainly take money out of your pocket and many others. Nothing about this legislation is beneficial to you. You are also in a drastic minority and you're right, it's not fair. On the other hand, there is no way you can argue that no Commercial take and 1 fish/day @ 36" for everyone is not in the best interest of the Striped Bass. You'd still be able to eat striped bass for dinner with your family and no one is telling you what you can and can't eat.

Jersey Shore, I heard some simple minds were entertained by it, dont know, because I have better things to do than waste my time and watch an episode... But Hey, thats just me..

Severely limit the rec take??? I like the one at 36", but killing 5 million pounds vs 10 million pounds is severe??

I really dont think what people eat is of mine, nor your concern... Theres alot of stuff thats bad for you.... Been eating striped bass quite often for 22 years or so, last I looked Im still here and healthy... Besides, You can always sue the state that allows sale if you get cancer or something...


Nothing in the legislature is benificial to me? THE HEALTH OF THE STRIPED BASS POPULATION IS BENIFICAL TO ME....I do care about a healthy striped bass stock, and I am well aware of what goes up and down the coast. Im all for the cuts, but to wipe out and blame striped bass commercial pinhookers for what ANYBODY that kills a striped bass is guilty of is wrong...

As a commercial guy I dont see a 10% catch as wrong... As a Charter guy I m saying we kill more fish than need be recreationally. Im saying that we dont need to kill 2-3 fish a man... Coming in with 15 dead bass on a charter is a bit overkill, I know alot of that meat will be wasted or given away to people that dont appreciate it...

Am I that wrong??? I mean hello, only .5% supported StripersForever...

Striped Bass fishing is getting tougher, people want somebody to blame... A group like stripersforever and other individuals seesmass commercial fishermen kill 1.1 million pounds of fish, 30 fish a day! They say Ha! That is the problem!!! Turn a blind eye to what the real number recreational catches are... I assure you, they are STAGGERING... well above what people think.... The only thing we are in agreement on JohnnyD is 1 fish @ 36".... Im against the new regs charter guys are pushing in NJ, a slot fish 24-27.99"... I know the damage that it does and they are trying to make limiting out in the early spring and fall runs easier for them... Im all for giving the fish a break....

"whats best for the fish"
a very strange concept, as both recs and comms are debating the best way to kill them.
hey, whats best for the fish is no one allowed to kill them at all !!
however both sides love fishing for sb, and need to unify in order to save their enviornment/forage......us being divided is also bad for sb,
this division is shortsighted.

Intrepid24, My biggest problem is they want the Striped bass a Gamefish, BUTTTTTT They want to be allowed to kill one for the table... They want to go from Harvesting 90% to Harvesting 100%????

As a commercial guy I dont see a 10% catch as wrong... As a Charter guy I m saying we kill more fish than need be recreationally. Im saying that we dont need to kill 2-3 fish a man... Coming in with 15 dead bass on a charter is a bit overkill, I know alot of that meat will be wasted or given away to people that dont appreciate it...

If you're so against coming in with 15 dead bass per charter and know that a lot of the fish will go to waste, then maybe you should stop doing charters. According to you, you can catch big fish whenever you want to - you've posted your slips. So, you're part of the problem.

You're trying to play both sides of the coin and it doesn't work like that. It also makes it impossible to take you seriously when you talk at all about conservation. Either you fish commercially and run charters allowing people to take their max keep, or you're think killing that many fish is wrong with a lot of it going to waste and you stop doing charters. Sometimes you argue for both positions in the same post and are continually contradiction yourself.

Pick a side.

Maybe I'm BiPolar???? So let me see i have to choose only one????

a) I am a surfcaster fishing for fun, releasing my fish, what I am happiest doing for me, and only me... Its my time and what I love most...

b) I am a commercial rod and reel pinhooker...

c) I am a charter Captain, putting clients on to fish, I may not agree with the regs, but the law says 2 fish @ 28", plus bonus tag in NJ and its what my clients want...


d) I am a tournament fisherman, enjoy the challenge, new places to fish, and a shot to win some $$$...


So according to you JohnnyD, I can only pick one of the above... I have to pick a side as you say..... Yes its one vs the other.... Geez I am sure I am the only one in this situation???


FYI, I posted a slip for everyone that is crying how the fishing used to be, how there are no fish..... Im sorry but sometimes we have to work for them... You understand we cant have a slaughter everytime we go out, wheres the challenge.... And no I dont claim to catch big fish everywhere. I fish for striped bass from NC to Maine, both boat, and surf... I have yet to break the 50lb mark in every state, but yes, one day I will have a 50 from every state I fish for my trophy room. That is my personal Goal. So I got a few states covered thus far. We all have personal goals..Is that so bad??

Im sorry you have such Hatred for Commercial Bass fishermen...

[QUOTE=CowHunter;739362]I have yet to break the 50lb mark in every state, but yes, one day I will have a 50 from every state I fish for my trophy room. That is my personal Goal. So I got a few states covered thus far. We all have personal goals..Is that so bad??

[QUOTE]

Depends on how you define "bad".

A fifty caught and released in every state you fish would be a better goal....at least as far as your kids, other's kids, and other people are concerned. When others pay a price for someone else's goals some people would see that as "bad". Your business, however.

Intrepid24, My biggest problem is they want the Striped bass a Gamefish, BUTTTTTT They want to be allowed to kill one for the table... They want to go from Harvesting 90% to Harvesting 100%????

i feel that there are some bruised ego's in play here, if you are a are a known producer, then you just can't care about the resource...cuz you kill soooo many. being good is a curse in this front.

Numbskull... I have released 50lb fish... How many can say that???

Not directing this at you numbskull, but people think just because you commercial fish that you kill everything you catch everytime you fish... I happen to let go more than I kill in a season...

So according to you JohnnyD, I can only pick one of the above... I have to pick a side as you say..... Yes its one vs the other.... Geez I am sure I am the only one in this situation???

...

Im sorry you have such Hatred for Commercial Bass fishermen...

I'm not saying you have to pick one of those, I'm saying you can't advocate for conservation and go on about how terrible it is about how many fish get killed by charters and how bad for stocks commercial fishing can be, then go out and run charters and commercial fish.

The hypocrisy of it is what I'm bringing up. Or is it a "Do as I say, not as I do" type situation. It seems like you want everyone else to make adjustments, but you don't want to change the way you fish.

You may not agree with the laws, but you sure have no issues taking advantage of them. Basically, you're posts come off like a PETA person that eats steaks.

Numbskull... I have released 50lb fish... How many can say that???

Almost every person I fish with, multiple times... except for me unfortunately. Still hunting for my first.

JohnnyD, Please show me where I mentioned that Commercial fishing is bad for the stocks? I know I never did, Im defending the 10% commercial catch because its nothing compared to what the recs kill... I want people to open there eyes and see how much damage is being done recreationally. As recs we kill way to many fish, period... The charters do fall under recreational catches under recreational limits....

..various trust fund/Foundation sponsored enviro/animal rights organizations are are waiting in the wings to pull the rug out of all SB user groups(and ALL types of fishing)..........we should focus on this tradegy in the making............

..various trust fund/Foundation sponsored enviro/animal rights organizations are are waiting in the wings to pull the rug out of all SB user groups(and ALL types of fishing)..........we should focus on this tradegy in the making............

as difficult as it may be, we need to be allies against such interests....

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Yeeeeshh
That'll be a divorce just waiting to happen.
Watch your back.
:fight:

Numbskull... I have released 50lb fish... How many can say that???
.

And I think I've released a few, too..........only I never got to see them ;).

Hopefully someday releasing large SB will be the norm, just as in freshwater the norm is to release a 10 lb LMB.

That isn't happening, however, as long as large fish have monetary value when dead (be it for commercial sale or charter/recreational purpose).

I agree that the attitude of recreational fishermen causes more harm to SB population than commercial (obviously).......but I think that the commercial take is a major factor in setting the mindset of most fishermen (both recreational and commercial) that SB are something to be exploited. Until the monetary value of dead striped bass becomes insignificant, attitudes are unlikely to change. Eliminating commercial take is a necessary, but not sufficient in itself, step to getting there.

I don't expect you to agree, your perspective is different than mine and neither perspective is more right than the other. Those differences are settled by legislative actions and since professional fishermen are way more organized than amateur fishermen I don't expect to see a change until either the fishery collapses and/or the legal system (under environmental challenge) shuts us all down.

I agree that the attitude of recreational fishermen causes more harm to SB population than commercial (obviously).......but I think that the commercial take is a major factor in setting the mindset of most fishermen (both recreational and commercial) that SB are something to be exploited. Until the monetary value of dead striped bass becomes insignificant, attitudes are unlikely to change. Eliminating commercial take is a necessary, but not sufficient in itself, step to getting there. .

Exactly! How do you get the recreational fisherman to except a reduction in limit when for a hundred dollars someone else can get 30.

The Mass commercial license is just a partial return to the old days where recreational fisherman can sell fish. Plus a little bit of a money grab for the state. It's a Mass quota, why would they sell non-resident licenses if they weren't looking for the bucks.

At the risk of offending, I am tired of the BS a fish killed by a rec, a commercial or by catch is dead and cannot contribute to the survival of the striped bass. I think we should all bite the bullet and have a moritorun on taking any bass until we can straighten out the problems they are having in the Chesapeake. As much sense as this seems to make I have doubts that it will ever happen. There is just too much money involved. We pushed the bass to the edge of of survival in the eighties and I think it is only a matter of time. Commercials and rec fisherman enjoy the bass while they last. Think it cant happen look at the passenger pigeon, think about the halibut fishery in the atlantic that was destroyed by 1900. I detest the weekend commercial fishermen- those who deplete an endangered public resource to line there pockets. I have some sympathy for full time fishermen. But the good do not always prevail. I just want to be able to look at my children when they ask daddy "Whats a striped bass?" I think some of the participants in this thread (who I prefer not to mention) will regret their greed when the bass go the way of other fisheries that were once prolific and thought to be inexhaustible.

Mike, First where can I get a comm license for a hundred??? Hook a Brother up Man!

30 fish is the limit, they shut it down when they hit 1.1 million pounds....

I think it would be a great Idea to have rec guys pay $100 for a saltwater fishing license, Give them to a quota of 1.1 million pounds and shut it down when the quota is hit..... 100 fishermen catching 30 fish a day is 3000 dead fish.... 1500 fishermen catching 2 a day up and down the coast is 3000 fish, the difference is the 1500 fishermen can fish every single day from when the fish arrive to when they leave, 7 months straight, seven days a week...

Why do people have a hard time grasping 30 fish? The quota is still 1.1 million pounds... Its hit and then shut down, so what if it is 10, 15, 20, 30 or 40 fish a day... I am so certain that everybody is getting theyre 30 fish Mike... If that was the case the season would last a week... Why is it that all the big wieght days come in on Sundays when its 5 Fish a man? Not the 30 fish a day... More people doing it, and its easier to catch 5. It doesnt take a genius to figure out how easy it is for the recs to kill more...

If it was that easy to get 30 fish every Single day we would not be having this debate because the Striped Bass Stock would be Healthier than it ever was... Guess anybody can get a license for $100 and catch 30 a day!!!

DannyPlug, I think SB is far from extinct..... People have gotten spoiled the last few years.... We do Have an EEZ where the Bass are protected... I will say this about the Chesapeke, At Least they Shut it down to Harvesting from Jan 1 Til May - Catch And Release ONLY... Im suprised the SF Folks dont head down there from Maine and Enjoy a Fine Catch and Release Fishery.... You can catch all the little dinks you want, till your arms fall off....

Look at the young of the year indexes for the chesapeake. Typically there are a series of off years then there is a year when every thing comes together. This has not happened in quite a few years. When the fish were evey where there was a correlation with the YOY indexes. The Chesapeake fish are in trouble! acres of the bay are dead the menhaden which provide the best ratio of nutrient to the bass are being whiped out. And from a personal perspective I know the ammount of small bass are going down. Fishermen up and down the coast are support the scientific reality that stripers are in trouble. For many reasons people do not want to see the truth. Are we supposed to wait till we are on the edge like the eighties. We should all bite the bullet and release all bass. I cant expect others to make sacrifices if I wont.

The mortality rate from rec fishermen is greater than the total take of the commercial guys. Fly fishermen kill every fish they catch. These are facts from the study done by the state of Massachusetts, paid for by us. This commercial fishery has been in Mass for hundreds of years. Leave it alone.

DannyPlug, I am aware of the YOY indexes, I believe 06 was the worst with .5 a sienne and 09 had like 3.5 or so... Think a 700% increase or so. In any case it is troublesome, but what is the cause?? I hear the biggest Blame is the run off from the farmlands and not overharvesting, even though Ive seen some impressive rec kils there in December and outside in Jan... In fact the Com guys Harvesting BlueCrabs are Blaming the Striped Bass for eating them... Finger Pointing Everywhere... And Yes the Menhaden is a huge factor....

Agian, correct me if I am wrong on the YOY, That was just off the top of my head...

Seabuggy, been saying that for weeks on here....

Cowhunter, You've said all that can be said. I do not know of anyone that has fished as extensively and intensely as yourself. I am sure you have more first hand, east coast experience, striped bass fishing, than 99% of all fishermen. You've stated your points as clearly as anyone has, in any forum. I have a better understanding of the coast wide fishery as a result. Thank you. Charters are over, commercial is closed, tournaments are done. Hibernate. Art

Mike, First where can I get a comm license for a hundred??? Hook a Brother up Man!

30 fish is the limit, they shut it down when they hit 1.1 million pounds....

I think it would be a great Idea to have rec guys pay $100 for a saltwater fishing license, Give them to a quota of 1.1 million pounds and shut it down when the quota is hit..... 100 fishermen catching 30 fish a day is 3000 dead fish.... 1500 fishermen catching 2 a day up and down the coast is 3000 fish, the difference is the 1500 fishermen can fish every single day from when the fish arrive to when they leave, 7 months straight, seven days a week...

Why do people have a hard time grasping 30 fish? The quota is still 1.1 million pounds... Its hit and then shut down, so what if it is 10, 15, 20, 30 or 40 fish a day... I am so certain that everybody is getting theyre 30 fish Mike... If that was the case the season would last a week... Why is it that all the big wieght days come in on Sundays when its 5 Fish a man? Not the 30 fish a day... More people doing it, and its easier to catch 5. It doesnt take a genius to figure out how easy it is for the recs to kill more...

If it was that easy to get 30 fish every Single day we would not be having this debate because the Striped Bass Stock would be Healthier than it ever was... Guess anybody can get a license for $100 and catch 30 a day!!!

Rod and reel permit $35.00 and $30 for striper endorsement.

The difference is in one case 1500 people get to enjoy the fishery. In the other case 100 get to make money off the fishery.

Your right if it was easy to catch 30 fish a day there would be no reason for this discussion. But then, when you have to limit the general public to no more than two fish a day I think that is an indication that the stock can not support a commercial fishery.

Yes, there is about a 3 million mt quota for commercial, about 20% of the total catch. The number of recreational fisherman is continuing to increase. In this situation in my opinion the first place you cut is the commercial quota. You want to maintain a public resource in a manner that benefits the largest number of people.

There's an old addage that fits - Figures lie and liars figure.
There perverse mentality that prevade this whole arguement is the fish come last. I've been watching this thread and several others. I see the same arguements now as were there in the 80's. A moratorium was put in place due to the fish being last back then too. Greed and selfishness are still the same. Those of us that stepped up for the fish back then had to deal with the same as now. There are only a small number coast wide that commercial fish for the striper. The true numbers show that only a handfull are responsible for the bulk of the catch. Catch an release is so common now and people keeping only a couple fish a season is more the norm now. Sportfishermen cut back when needed as has always been the way.As do some commercials. But the loud greedy ones still want the buck irrigardless of the end results.New boats and motors ,surfing trips,cruises and new SUV's are the driving force as only a very small group really need the buck that comes from a few weeks of sales. But better to have those bucks till the fish are gone. MMMMMM like cod fisherman killing thousands of lbs of small cod in the nets to get the 400lbs a day yrs back till the fishery was all but destroyed.If the buck is that important to you then go for it. But stop lieing an say you care about the fishery.I haven't kept 3 dozen fish in 4 yrs.I spend more time fishing than most people do.I love the taste of the fish but not to the point of killing all that I can.And put the real numbers up.10 percent by a couple thousand to 90 for several million.10 percent of several million comes out to several hundred thousand. MMMMMMMM not several thousand so don't complain about unfair. The fish are whats important not the buck. my thoughts. Ron

StriperMaineiac, Im gonna have to respectfully disagree with you on the catch and release part and I think that is where you dont have an open eye too.... You think every sportsman is like you and practices catch and release??? I dont have a single charter that does catch and release, nor do any of the other guides I know, they kill their limit... As do most other people that I know... I may know of a handfull that primarily catch and release, actually ONE of the top of my head.... But your right, turn a blind eye to what is really going on and blame the comms, they are the sole problem. I am sure STriped Bass will rebound with a vengence If they did away with the Mass Com season... I am sure you honestly believe that...


Ive said all I have to say, Im with Artie on this... Later guys...

Lots of opinions here and after all we do live in america where you are allowed to have and voice an opinion.
I will not voice my opinions here but leave some food for thought.

1 What can we as fishermen do to ensure the health of our stock? (ie. just because you can take two doesn't mean you have to) Think about it, (there are lots of answers) do it, and encourage others to do the same.

2 Is letting more government control another aspect of our lives the right answer? (remember we do already have an agency that regulates the fisheries)

If you want real change get educated on how to get those changes made. Most people are logical and a logical argument can go a long way in unifying people with a common cause. Extremism never works.

I have personally decided to stick with my fishing club, MSBA, become more educated in the way the regulations work,learn the proper ways to go about changing them, and become more active in the process.

I invite you all to join a club where you can voice your opinion,stand side by side with fellow fishermen, and become involved .

Perhaps you will achieve more finding the middle of the road and getting something you can live with ,even if it isn't exactly what you want.

No way you are going away.
Charter trips "generally" take people who don't boat fish a lot, so of course they want, and get, to keep as much as they can . But for most of the fishermen I know (many ) we have boats and ways and means to get to fish. We don't fill the box, why bother you only need a couple a year. We fish for FUN, a release from the trials and tribulations of stressful lives in hard times, a hobby. If you were not making money off it, I'm sure would and do fish for fun also.
Few here are begrudging your career, charters are necessary so everyone can fish. We have no real issues catching fish, move around a bit you'll find them. But the shorebound guys ( the majority of fishermen) are not seeing fish as they used to. For lots of reasons, hence their concern.
Your manner of speaking to us is a bit pontificating and it rubs some people the wrong way, thats why you get the reactions you do. Not me though, I was a Southie project punk. We all speak like this.:fury: Try a different tact, you may find a different result.
Personally, I think the Basses foremost problems are in the very beginnings of their life, not how they end up killed.

Well as far as catch n release being so destructive if it were every waterway along the coast would be littered with dead floating stripers everytime there was a good bite going on. Funny that you never really see that after a good blitz. there are some but definitely noe wheres near as many as there should be by all the quote reports of mortality deaths due to release. as far as few practicing it well up here in Maine it's a must due to the limits. 1 fish a day period.20 to 26 in ot over 40 in.I see anglers all over the place releasing fish bass an blues. Remember it's not just charter fishermen out there.
As far as my post goes well this whole issue is basically about the commercial rod n reel in Mass. The other issues are still being fought. by-catch is a joke and does so much damage it's unbeleivable but that is another fight in another venure. I beleive NOAA is looking into that along with RFA an other groups. The buck did the stripers in in the 70's an 80's an is doing it again now.
Maine is just one example of the effects. With the huge ammount of bait up here the last few yrs we should be walking on stripers but we're not. Mackeral,squid,herring/alwives,bunker,sandeeels,smelt an so on.Just few stripers.
Our striper fishing has declined continually since the rod n reel seasons and shore gill netting were restarted to the point that large stripers are few n far between up here after the Nova Scotia stocks head back north in the early spring n summer. even with our growing populations from those fish stocked up here in the Kenebec an other waterways they've spread to aren't filling the gap made . Add the huge fish kills by netters and it's not a good picture.
Sportfishermen can only keep 1 or 2 fish at a wack. From what it used to be -keeping dozens of fish a night an keeping them all no matter how big or small.Yup more can and is being done and preached about. Just don't seem to hear any give ups from the commercial side of the hook. Just want want an want more bucks.If another larde school of stripers move into the Vineyard sound all the commercials will fish them till they're gone. Guys like me might catch a few but we'll still have to put all but 1 or 2 back in the water to fight again. an you'll never convinse me that stripers are more delicate than largemouth that get caught as much as 4 or 5 times a day and released again and still live.
as far as Stripers Forever goes well it's not a fly club just like Stripers Unlimited wasn't yrs ago. We had to deal with the retorick back then as now. It was about the buck then and it is so now.Short of not fishing at all many of us really can't go much farther in our steps for consevation. We rarely keep any fish but that really doesn't count as we only land a few thousand fish a season and release them. Ron

Cow hunter I dont mean to be rude. But how are people on the other side of the issue supposed to take you seriously. I am not a marine biologist, but I do know that the fish on your postings will never live to breed again. Furthermore, the one time use of of legit harvesting vs killing is misleading ... using benign term is like calling sorta like calling a strip club a gentlemans club vs titty bar. Additionnaly it is not fair to the vast majority of rec fisherman who recessitate, and carefully realease bass and allow some one else the possibility of catching that fish again. When a commercial charter or a rec fisheman takes a bass he or she has insured that two things will happen. 1. That fish ]will not breed again. 2. No one islse will have the pleasure of catching that fish again. I agree that there will be some mortality associated with catch and release fishing. I use a minimal amount of hooks with no barbs and do not fish live or dead baits. There will be some mortality (farr below the amount in the Mass study in that study you fail to mention that the fish were gut hooked. However there is 100% mortality when any one keeps a fish. Furthurmore as you point out there are many more rec fisherman than commercials. In a democracy the needs of the majority are supposed to prevail over those of special interests (Commercial weekend fisherman) . One time use for a game fish has to become a thing of the past as has the whole sale slughter of the passenger pidgeon, buffalo, and market hunting for water fowl. Bass should be a strictly catch and release game fish!

...do the math,,,,,,,10% killed by commercials.......90% killed by Recreational/charter..=100% dead

Bass should be a no kill species for the forseeable future. Never happen too much money and too much greed.

...do the math,,,,,,,10% killed by commercials.......90% killed by Recreational/charter..=100% dead

The percent killed by whichever group isn't an argument. It all comes down to how many more bass are being killed than replaced.

All that matters is that the fish are not replacing themselves as fast as we are taking them. I personally dont think they can stand up to the pressure that commercials, charters, and rec fishermen put on them. I think the answer is a total moritoriun like in the eighties. If we screw this up or allow ourselves to be controlled by special interest groups we may loose the bass entirely.

....... continue the freeze on commercial..........reduce recreational/charter....no argument just reporting...just common sense.........just acknowledge the excesses of the Rec/charter group of anglers.............and back off from hard cap commercials who are a very small percentage of the ASFMC "death pie"of striper mortality.......and the available data indicates a wash of one fish recruited to the population.....one fish is removed as killed, eaten, mounted, or sold.......multiple use is the soul of America's utlization of our natural resources.....a intended resource grab under the guise of gamefish status is reprehesible....with good managment of striped bass is basically in place...........all striped bass user groups should concentrate on the bait issues as they relate to striper dietary needs......and should "pay attention" to various extremist enviro groups totally planning to end fishing as we know it....................everyone should save one's energy for the real battle that will be decending on all who participate with activities(sport, livelyhood) that has a live creature(i.e. fish) in the equation.....the massive funding that is available to the anti's to eliminate activities that include live creatures is frightening..................we all better wake up........all of us before it is to late....

Commercial fishing as we know it is an anacronism. When the whiteman cam to this counry game was abundent and a person could feed there family with wild game. You cant just go out to a state forrest and shoot enough game to feed your family for the winter. Nor can you sell the game you shoot. People used to be able to do this the buffalo hunters feeding the rail road workers, the market hunters on the chesapeake. The vast majority of the food that we eat has been grown or raised. We cant continue to take from the seas at will we are just too good. We have destroyed habitat and the food sources of the bass. Look at the other commercial fisheries the government is buying back licenses look to the future we are depleating the fish in the sea at an alarming rate including the striped bass. This is a scientific issue which has been hijacked by the greed of a few vs the future. A wild Bass is too important to be sold like a pittyfull hatchery raised ten inch rainbow trout. Bass should be taken off the market and the charter industry, and the recreationals should not be allowed to take fish for the near future.

........I hear ya cow Hunter...............

This Legislation was not a debate about Commercial vs Recreational...this legislation is now dead in the water...let's let it die...let's move on...let's debate when we have something reasonable to debate...why get into a debate over dead legislation

This Legislation was not a debate about Commercial vs Recreational...this legislation is now dead in the water...let's let it die...let's move on...let's debate when we have something reasonable to debate...why get into a debate over dead legislation

This isn't a debate over the legislation any more. This is a discussion over some of the items that were contents of the legislation - something that still affects striper fisherman.

This is a reasonable discussion - what needs to be done to protect the species. The current regulatory process is impotent.

well Pat this is a debate thats been going on since the 50's. You really think it's gonna go away just because its getting close to taking the price tag off the stripers for a while so they have a chance. Well don't see it happen. Funny thing is that a great many of us that are pushing for gamefish status now used to do commercial and saw the effect of our greed and decuded the fish was more important than the buck .Guys like Bob Pond who aren't with us anymore left a legacy with many of us to carry on. protect the fish not the fisherman so we'll always have it to fish for.
we protect the fish we end up protecting the fishermen too both sport an commercial. But it's okay as when the feds get fed up with our bickering they put a limit or a moritorium on the fish to do what we won't. Ron

I agree the debate will go on forever. I just don't get what we are debating, what is the point. This thread is now so confused with so many separate issues that it is not going anywhere.

Seriously, I welcome and actually urge many threads and debates but what is the point of debate if the stated problem keeps changing and the potential solutions are not focused. Reads a bit like a lot of whining and sub agendas to me. LEts separate them out and have some intelligent discussions on individual subject matter.

I just hope some of the banter of those engaged in this debate turns into more action at future meeitngs. At the upcoming ASMFC we will hear the report on the stock asessment update and that is the time to voice our concerns. I hope some organizations actually show up. Obviously most people have to work but that is why we join clubs and raise money for organizations, correct?

Will Stripers Forever be there?

We'll see who shows up as I (MSBA) will be there, honoring Bob Ponds legacy of science based management and not fisherman's bull %$%$%$%$.

I think that we should ask the stripers to all stand still for as long it takes us to do a head count, then go from there:wall:.

I agree Frank! Funny how they think they have any accuracy what so ever for stock assessment! What a joke! Any more than they can give us accurate mortality rates for catch and release!!! "Excuse me Mr. Striper......could you drop me a line in a day or so and let us know you survived the catch and release? We are compiling data for our reports and it would help!" Its all half assed estimates and unfounded "facts"! I never put much faith in those reports! They can just fudge the numbers any way it suits their needs!

The one factoid you all seem to be missing is that there is no hard tac for recreational bass fishing! Yet in all commercial fishing there is a quota which equals 65000 bass, yup they are over 34" inches and yes they may be breeding fish, but they have bred at least once and in most cases 2 or 3 times. My question to you guys is this...how would SF bill have helped the fish? answer in short it wouldn't. They are a greedy organization, and anyone that knows me knows that I do stand for the fish, for example I will not fish for baby tuna...do I begrudge the guys for doing it? at first yes I did just like you guys are begrudging the Ma commercial fisherman, but do i now? Nope...have at it...opinions are great but with opinions you need compromise, SF offered no compromise and even went as far as to say that the legistlation was not aimed at stopping commercial fishing...but line 4 of the bill read...prohibit the sale of wild striped bass in massachusetts that included the importing of bass from other states...that is completely selfish...do I personally think the bass is in trouble? Nope and I fish for them more than most of you...I start in the surf in late April and finish my charters around the end of September/early October...I never had a problem catching fish at all from the boat or surf...the surf was different last spring as the bluefish were thick early so I fished bass at nite and was extremely successful...sometimes you have to change your methods thats what makes it fun!

But to say that the massachusetts commercial fishery should end and Maine will have some fish is wrong. To say that the Ma commercial fishery is the problem is wrong as well. Charters for example kill a lot of fish...I take 12 a day for my customers if they want them and most of my clients want to release the smaller fish and keep the BIG ones...can u imagine that a person wants to keep a big fish...infact there are periods in the summer when I don't see a fish smaller than 30 plus inches...so lets do the math together...there are about 7 charter boats in barnstable...if each does 60 trips and limits out once a day at 12 fish that is 5040 fish, now sesuit has 7 boats thats another 5040 fish....rock harbor has 30 boats thats 21600 fish...this does not include doubles and is being constructed in a vacuum...that is half of the commercial quota and that was being modest in my numbers of trips...now add your weekend warriors...the charterboats on the south side....plymouth...green harbor...scituate...Gloucester...boston....do you see my point...our commercial season is a drop in a bucket and in no way a problem to any one of you...so I say please step off your high horse and stop blaming the commercial fisherman for what you say is the problem...the problem in the chesapeake is not massachusetts...it is chemical fertalizers...a moratorium is not going to stop farming is it?

Capt. Doug Amorello

I've stated a bunch of times that the biggest issue is the pollution, destruction of the natal estuaries.
Not how they end up but how they start.
How do you deal with that issue ?
Anybody ?:huh:

i just read everything that ALL of you said~~~
well put, some self-servingness, mostly passionate!

it ocurrs to me that "gamefish" status needs to be more clearly defined, since it seems to vary state-to-state. while i am for a comm moratorium, i believe that their 10% should be completely removed from the take quota so it does not become a fish grab. i also would support a reduction in the recreational take by at the least 75% of what it is currently allowed by ASFMC. very simply, 1 Striper @ 36" per day. 1/day would get you 50% less of a rec take, the 36" would (i'm guessing) be good for somewheres close to 25% more, roughly? this would be more of a compromise from both sides of the fishery killing machines and would certainly ease some pressure on our precious stocks.

lastly, i agree with Pat that thankfully SF was shut down. peer based science is most definitely the way to go with regard to ASBass. yet, this ALL seems moot if we DO NOT address the contingent issues that are most definitely intertwined within the intricacies of our marine resources. for me and my tax dollars spent, we should do ALL of the following:

1)FIX THE FORAGE: a ten year moratorium on ACMenhaden, period!!

2)FIX THE BAYS: the estaurine and spawning grounds pollution of the Hudson, Chesapeake, and the Outer Banks Stocks has led to, imho, the single most egregious waste/kill/depletion of our beloved species and on a much broader spectrum than science can EVEN MEASURE right now. as i understand from what i've read, it is impossible to generate the numbers/science that can give us an accurrate assessment of the horrific levels of damage that has been wrought by the big money interests(golfing, fertalizing, PCB'ers) and Industrial Greeds(Poultry, Pork, Purse Seiners) attached to this worsening plight on the species AND their spawning domains.

3)FIX OUR TUDES: as has been said, and i wholeheartedly AGREE, if we cannot reach mutally agreed upon limits and guidelines for the betterment of the Striped Bass' biomass moving forward, then we are falling into the well placed snares of these multi-lateral conservationists groups that WILL NOT stop at limiting our kill.

if we place our joint concerns and financial interests towards the advancement of a healthy and viable American Striped Bass fishery, then perhaps we could actually walk away from these boards with a legacy that does not echo our ignorant past, that promotes proactive conservationary actions for our future, and a proud legacy that reflects an attitude of change towards our resources and species as cohabitants to this God Blessed and God Given beauty that truly is The Striper Coast. in my view, it behooves us ~exponentially so~ to do NO LESS than to reasonably sacrifice what we deem is OURS simply because we are the dominant species.

how's about ONCE, just once, we GIVE something back to Nature(the surf) and something back to Beast(the stripah, bunkahs) at the unconscionable~ at least by today's standards ~ benefit to BOTH!!! is it even possible for us to get out of our own greedy, self-proliferating way at this point of "civilization". or has capitalism and the industrialization of America done enough, YET??!! what will it take for us to change our attitudes towards our resources,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,a collapse in our environment, ice caps melting, completely unviable estuaries??

something clearly has to GIVE, and we seem to be the only entity capable of doing so,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the bigger questions lie in the WHEN, HOW, and the WILL WE, change???

Right BD that would be great in a world where the streets were paved with gold, but they are not! People make their livings utilizing the SB and until science proves that we are overfishing this stock than nothing needs to be done...however we do not disagree on all points the forage issue does need to be addressed, but again your attitude albeit positive, is not realistic...there will never be a 10 year moratorium on a fish that for the past 100 years has lived in cycles that scientists can not explain...by reducing the catch the way u see it we will putting a lot more fish back into the sysytem...probably not we will mostly create a population of skinny bass again...malfeasian economics says it best populations will control themselve with war famine and disease...the striper is best left alone to its own devices right now....we need to clean the environment that they spawn in..thats what brought them back in the 90's not only the 36" size requirement.

Doug

Lots of cogent points have been made here regarding the already defeated bill in MA but there are just as many contradictions in the arguments supporting each side of the issue - which is par for the course on this hot button issue

First, the science is supported and then questioned as a baseless guesstimate at best.

There have been posts documenting the plight of the fishery and then others would like to have you believe that it's never been better and any problem is more the result of sheer lack of skill on the part of the angler

Personally, I don't think that's the case and that opinion is supported by surfmen who have enough time in to be taken seriously.

They have no financial ties to the striped bass fishery as pinhookers, charter skippers, shop owners or their employees, tackle manufacturers or lecturers which would have to make those opinions suspect from the start. So consider the source first

IMNSHO, it is not the robust fishery it once was and that's not through the rose-colored lens of nostalgia

But removing comms from the equation would have been somewhat like treating a cancer patient with Tylenol and the relief - if any - would have been as short-lived as it was short-sighted. Just be ready - while it may be over for now in terms of the bill in neighboring MA going down in flames, you can fully expect SF to make another stronger run on it. A skirmish was won, not the war, they're not going away and I don't doubt that they'll be back with reinforcements to push their agenda

A broader, more holistic approach is needed because there is simply no one user group or single contributing factor at the base of the problem and a part of the recreational sector is also going to have to shoulder the blame

It's not the commercial guys, it's more of a case of 'all of the above' as has been noted here

Just a question I'd like to pose to you all in regards to the health and sustainability of the fishery, regardless of your stake - whether it's money or ego or a combination of both

If it were proven beyond the shadow of a doubt - after more accurate data is collected on the recreational impact on the fishery as a result of the license - would you be willing to support a complete moratorium on striped bass for a period of several years to aid in it's recovery and future health?

You could simply find another job, another sport or another hobby for a few years

Or you could still continue to fish if you wanted to target another species - like scup, blackfish or bluefish, for instance - or maybe go the freshie route

Yes or no?

Absolutely.

I'd love a full blown moratorium... What better way to give the fish a chance to recover to what it was like 10 years ago.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

so we need to recover these fish again?

I just would like to know without sounding stuck up...have you guys really not caught any fish in the last ten years? Have you seen a problem that is fish number related or bait related? I would testify more bait related...I will gladly take any of you who do not get offshore much, starting in may and show you schools of bass with no less than 500 to 1000 fish in each school, that you can see for miles from cape cod bay all the way to the northwest corner....the fish are fine, they have changed their patterns because of lack of food on the beach, they used to follow the herring...well as we all know the runs are not what they used to be...so they in turn follow the squid and mackerel and sand eels...where are they? offshore...sad but true..the eez(which I don't fish) is full of healthy spawing big female bass and they are there all summer from PH to the bank and east and lets not get started bout the rips off Nantucket and crab ledge...the BB Buoy the fish are fine we just need to stop the herring boats and manage the dogfish to heathy levels....Doug

I truly am of the opinion that it is about the bait. Or the lack thereof.

Locally, if I can fish live pogies, I am almost certain to be able to find fish large enough to take them whole. After the seiners come into the harbors and wipe out those schools of bait, the bass are gone within a week, using pogies or not.

The local surffishing has been on a serious downswing up here for a few years. But if you go out to Stellwagen, just 15 miles away, there are many large bass. Forty and fifty pounders are taken pretty regularly on the troll. Are they aware they are in the EEZ???? Or are they there for the ample buffet available to them?

I have participated in the Martha's Vineyard Derby for the past two years. A week each year. One fish, my first albie in year one. Two albies and a bluefish this past year. What bait we saw was what the albies were on. Really didn't feel I had a shot at a bass from shore. The numbers were down. But I am of the opinion that they just weren't there. But they may well have been somewhere else where bait was more plentiful.

Last June we had probably our most productive trip to Cutthunk in the seven or so years we have been going over there. Was it the moon, the tides, or what? I figure I have run or been on twelve trips to Cuttyhunk with S-B members, with an average of 14 guys on each trip. That's a lot of wood, eels and tin that we've pitched into the night. What did we do different this time? Beats me. Personally, I had four good fish back to back in a half hour period around 2AM. And then nada. They just happened to be there when I was casting as I was making my way back to the club.

The past year was a good one for me from the boat. If I have live bait, I can go toe to toe with any of the local comms, and they know it. I am not for taking away the commercial limit at all. It is a drop in the bucket. The numbers put up by Cowhunter and Sashamy are what should be more alarming here.(ie. the number of charters keeping two fish per man per day, as allowed by the current law) It is indicative of what the rec take could be. I just can't see the need for a two fish per person per day, and would be all for going back to a one fish per day. This would establish a reasonable starting point for those of us who wish to truly be conservators of the resource.

[QUOTE=stripermaineiac; Funny thing is that a great many of us that are pushing for gamefish status now used to do commercial and saw the effect of our greed and decuded the fish was more important than the buck .Guys like Bob Pond who aren't with us anymore left a legacy with many of us to carry on. protect the fish not the fisherman so we'll always have it to fish for.
. Ron[/QUOTE]


amen.

Right BD that would be great in a world where the streets were paved with gold, but they are not! People make their livings utilizing the SB and until science proves that we are overfishing this stock than nothing needs to be done...
Doug

utulizing or abusing??
American Buffalo ring a bell?

one man's uses,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
is another man's abuses!

why does responsible, proactive, conservative action
at the expense of Industry or Commercialism/Capitalism
with regard to our Natural Resources, limited as they are, have
to be equated to "pie in the sky" pipe dreams??

Doug, does science or does it not work in reverse? Can numbers or can they not be manipulated to support both sides of the equation? and surely, a reduction from both sides of the killing zones would serve the species well, no? 10 years was a little over the top, but if ya shoot for ten and get five, then i would say that we've made an impact on behalf of the ACMenhaden.

further, why the HELL cain't Omega Protein farm soy? there is no STINKING way you will ever convince me that the disappearance of the Great Silver Balls of the turn of the century and even up until the mid 50's of bunker has not had a prolifically detrimental impact on BOTH~~~ estuaries and stripers!!

their filtering qualities alone coupled with the increases in pollution and a decimation of their numbers from what they were during the "Pre-Purseseinic Era" is unknowable at this time, why? because the menhaden harvesters have been able to haul to their hearts and fatt- arsed wallets content since the early '60's. cease and desist for five years and even YOU would be amazed at the result, i'd wager!

and to answer your querry, Charles,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,YES!! wholeheartedly i would switch to a different fish, should the numbers and reasonable science support a moratorium on our beloved prey. might have to go pelagic on yer butts. i'd figure some way to get my angling fixes fixed!!! i am very hopeful we won't screw this one up again. however, maintaining the staus quo seems futile at best.

Bassdawg.
Once you go pelagic. You get the bug bad.:uhoh:
Everything else becomes trout fishing.
Your money just disappears,
Sad it is.
Once the spring Bass bite is over we switch gears till the leaves are off the trees.
It's like chasing 18 yr old girls all over again.
Umm.. Sort of.

amen.

Don,you know,as well as I that a large portion of the former comms you spoke of,were comms when there weren't any real catch limits,and the size limit was 16 inches.
I think we all know that recs kill far more stripers than comms,so gamefish status alone(without further limitations)is pointless.
Reread Dougs(Sashamy)posts.He's usually pretty spot on,and I agree with what he said here.

bobby- i was a commercial fisherman for years and i believe i was part of the problem in the 80's. and today i have a vested interest in the condition of this fishery. i don't need scientists or bioligists to tell me the state of this fishery- i have eyes and have been a fisherman for 50 yrs and i remember history. gamefish status is only part of the solution i would like to see. i would also like to see a coastwide standard limit of 1 fish at 36". i believe those two measures would go a long way to restoring the fishery- yes i believe it is in need of restoration.

Yup yup.... Sounds good to me.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Last June we had probably our most productive trip to Cutthunk in the seven or so years we have been going over there. Was it the moon, the tides, or what? I figure I have run or been on twelve trips to Cuttyhunk with S-B members, with an average of 14 guys on each trip. That's a lot of wood, eels and tin that we've pitched into the night. What did we do different this time? Beats me. Personally, I had four good fish back to back in a half hour period around 2AM. And then nada. They just happened to be there when I was casting as I was making my way back to the club.


The answer to Cuttyhunk is living there or luck.
And thats that.

Reading the pages here, I hate to even post... but wth?

1. The hypocricy(sp) of charter boat skippers saying there's a problem with charters killing so many fish is astounding. Do you even read your posts?

2. The SF bill was a fish grab. Pure and simple.

3. Rec's kill way too many fish. We (on this site) travel in a small circle as we release way more than we kill. Such is not the case with most rec's I'd wager (see point 1).

4. Cutting the limit from 2-28 to 1 - 28 would NOT cut the kill by 50% as I'd wager most surf casters keep 1 at a time. It's a PIA lugging 2 fish around. It's a step in the right direction.

5. Fish are following the bait offshore, but is this new? or have a population of fish always done this? Is this population growing or are the coastal fish just dwindling.

6. Saying the fish are there... you just have to WORK harder for them is actually saying that there ARE less fish. (What part of this don't you get) I highly doubt that coastal populations are congrating into fewer bigger schools.

7. People are greedy and people suck.

JFig for President :love:

In a nutshell, everyone needs to take less, release more, and protect the bait.

Meanwhile we run around in circles.

I agree with don there should be a 36" limit one fish coast wise. I dont care how the figures are manipulated by special intersts, I know the bass population is going down and most likley crashing in the next five years. I have seen the number of small fish go down every year. Meanwhile I have not taken a fish in a very long time. I have quit fishing live bait and am extreemly carefull with the fish I release. Then I go to westport when the commercial bass season opens and watch the commercials come back from Cuttyhunk loaded to the gills with large prime breeding fish. Dont ask me to disbelieve my own eyes. In regard tothe mas bill being dead. For now possibly, the special intrests win but the mass of the people eventually forces the issue in a democracy. Make stripers a game fish!

Some of the posters are right, the fish are here for everyone. No one group has the inside track on the taking of SB. Commercial guys say they have an historic right to a commercial season. They abide by the rules set forth and take thier 1.1 m pounds. The stocks are better for this effort. The consumer that buys and eats this fish have rights too. Without a commercial quota the markets would not have product. Recreational guys that I know personally are also getting thier share, If they know how. I do however, have a problem with the writers of the proposed bill banning the sale of SB. If anyone in thier right mind ever read this study, they would disregard it immediatly. It speaks to job loss and losses to tourism and such. It is the biggest farce related to fishing that I have ever seen. You do not have to go beyond the sponsers list to see what is going on. The Mass DMF is doing thier job, Let them do it and leave the fish to all groups as it is now.

Do you really think that charter captains and commercial fisherman want to catch the last fish? Is it wrong dannyplug that there is a regulated season on 34" fish...but yet you promote a 36" coastal limit? Will that not have the same ramifications...still killing breeding fish which seems to be your big problem with the retention of the fish for consumption. No Danny you just have a problem with the commercial fisherman/charter boat industry...do you think its easy? To go catch 12 for a charter or 30 to sell...I get paid for both but the same pressure to catch fish is there. It is not automatically July12 so 30 fish jump in your boat every day...and then the secret black market opens up???so none of these fish get counted...or the guy who goes out and brings home thirty to eat...come on guys get off the drugs...the season last 26 days, it catches 65000 fish, those are solid numbers...show me the rec numbers....U CAN"T cuz they are a guesstimate...there is no hypocrisy about me talking about the number of bass killed by a charterboat...those fish belong to the public...they contract me to take them out to get their share of the resource. You and a few others would like it if we were all Orvis endorsed guides and we brought people out to maybe catch a couple fish a day with a noodle rod...but guess what stripers taste good and those folks whom aren't as lucky to have a screen name like dannyplug like to eat them. Sorry to rant but you guys are older gents that fished and killed thousands of juvenile bass...for what? oh yeah to pay for your trips to the beach...

The plight of the buffalo someone else brought up...apples and oranges...first of all that was a time period when ther was no government agencies protecting wildlife, secondly buffalo are mammals they reproduce at rate that is not even comparable to a fish that lays millions of eggs at one time...but what we can compare is the processes of natural selection...the weather...rainfall...run-off also contribute to the success of these creatures ability to survive and reproduce...

I applaud you gentlemen for your thinking, but I am a little worried about your lack of compromise...why punish and continue to persecute the sector of the fishery that is hook and line? highly regulated? and done by a panel of your peers? anyone can get a license it is not a special interest group...just my two cents... Doug

Do you really think that charter captains and commercial fisherman want to catch the last fish? Is it wrong dannyplug that there is a regulated season on 34" fish...but yet you promote a 36" coastal limit? Will that not have the same ramifications...still killing breeding fish which seems to be your big problem with the retention of the fish for consumption. No Danny you just have a problem with the commercial fisherman/charter boat industry...do you think its easy? To go catch 12 for a charter or 30 to sell...I get paid for both but the same pressure to catch fish is there. It is not automatically July12 so 30 fish jump in your boat every day...and then the secret black market opens up???so none of these fish get counted...or the guy who goes out and brings home thirty to eat...come on guys get off the drugs...the season last 26 days, it catches 65000 fish, those are solid numbers...show me the rec numbers....U CAN"T cuz they are a guesstimate...there is no hypocrisy about me talking about the number of bass killed by a charterboat...those fish belong to the public...they contract me to take them out to get their share of the resource. You and a few others would like it if we were all Orvis endorsed guides and we brought people out to maybe catch a couple fish a day with a noodle rod...but guess what stripers taste good and those folks whom aren't as lucky to have a screen name like dannyplug like to eat them. Sorry to rant but you guys are older gents that fished and killed thousands of juvenile bass...for what? oh yeah to pay for your trips to the beach...

The plight of the buffalo someone else brought up...apples and oranges...first of all that was a time period when ther was no government agencies protecting wildlife, secondly buffalo are mammals they reproduce at rate that is not even comparable to a fish that lays millions of eggs at one time...but what we can compare is the processes of natural selection...the weather...rainfall...run-off also contribute to the success of these creatures ability to survive and reproduce...

I applaud you gentlemen for your thinking, but I am a little worried about your lack of compromise...why punish and continue to persecute the sector of the fishery that is hook and line? highly regulated? and done by a panel of your peers? anyone can get a license it is not a special interest group...just my two cents... Doug

Your right I detest commercial fishermen too many times I have been at sakonnet point and watched dead shorts be thrown into the harbor. Never mind the local rumor that shorts are being secretly trucked to canada for sale. And yes I do think with modern technology it is not as difficult to decimate bass. Commercials and charter captains are farr more effective than they were in past years. All I know is that I wont catch as many bass as cowhunter shows in the picture with his posting in ten years of surf fishing. Furthurmore I will let all of them go. Dead FISH I Dead Fish. Like Lee Wulf said a game fish is too precious to be used once. With that being said I would be in favor of a total moritorium.

I agree with don there should be a 36" limit one fish coast wise. I dont care how the figures are manipulated by special intersts, I know the bass population is going down and most likley crashing in the next five years. I have seen the number of small fish go down every year. Meanwhile I have not taken a fish in a very long time. I have quit fishing live bait and am extreemly carefull with the fish I release. Then I go to westport when the commercial bass season opens and watch the commercials come back from Cuttyhunk loaded to the gills with large prime breeding fish. Dont ask me to disbelieve my own eyes. In regard tothe mas bill being dead. For now possibly, the special intrests win but the mass of the people eventually forces the issue in a democracy. Make stripers a game fish!
not sure what yur position is, could ya repeat it one more time, please ?
Your right I detest commercial fishermen too many times I have been at sakonnet point and watched dead shorts be thrown into the harbor. Never mind the local rumor that shorts are being secretly trucked to canada for sale. And yes I do think with modern technology it is not as difficult to decimate bass. Commercials and charter captains are farr more effective than they were in past years. All I know is that I wont catch as many bass as cowhunter shows in the picture with his posting in ten years of surf fishing. Furthurmore I will let all of them go. Dead FISH I Dead Fish. Like Lee Wulf said a game fish is too precious to be used once. With that being said I would be in favor of a total moritorium.

......the Buffalo reduction was a planned action by the government/business interests to reduce the Native American food supply-thus making it easier to control the plains indians and send them to reservations........to free up the great plains for agriculture(land grab)...i.e. grain crops and for beef cattle production............similar to SF attempt to grab all the striped bass(fish resource grab)......

The plight of the buffalo someone else brought up...apples and oranges...first of all that was a time period when ther was no government agencies protecting wildlife, secondly buffalo are mammals they reproduce at rate that is not even comparable to a fish that lays millions of eggs at one time...but what we can compare is the processes of natural selection...the weather...rainfall...run-off also contribute to the success of these creatures ability to survive and reproduce...


uh well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Doug, that "someone" was me. and my reference to the complete and utter decimation of a particular species was made to show how The Age of Industry, Westward Expansion, and good-old fashioned American Greed (the comm trappers were paid quite handsomely) led to the anihilation of one of God's resources. imho, these beasts and their existences have been intertwined with the American Striper, and the Atlantic Coast Menhaden since Creation. i beleive that God gave the Plains Indians the Buffalo for food/clothing/shelter/tools, and that he gave to the Narragansetts/Mohegans/Sachems/Algonquins the Bunker for a natural fertilizer and the Striper for food among other species and plants. the plentifulness alone of them before the "whiteman" came along and destroyed each of them, with no regard for them as a partner in Life nor Environment, speaks most loudly to the level of ignorance and neglect that this country has always had towards its "neighbors".

quite simply, Doug~~~~~

just because there is no law against what havoc we wreak on environment and species,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that does not equate to the justification of our abhorent behavior. do you think that the trappers were right for the actions they took, at the behest of the US gov't, back then that led to the total demise of the great American Bison? how do you suppose the Plains Indians felt at the time? hey, the Jean-Luc Trappierres of the world weren't breaking any US Laws!! they had families to support and the Buffalo were there, right? gimmeee a break!

for me the same goes for this scenario,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,numbers can be switched and swayed however you would like them to be favored.


I applaud you gentlemen for your thinking, but I am a little worried about your lack of compromise...why punish and continue to persecute the sector of the fishery that is hook and line? highly regulated? and done by a panel of your peers? anyone can get a license it is not a special interest group...just my two cents... Doug

and how is it a fish grab if ALL parties are in favor of a reduction in the take? 1 @ 36", free the pogies, and nobody is saying no to charters~~~ we ARE saying that something needs to be done so as NOT to repeat the past. we are saying no comm's for a time,,,,,2-3 yrs??? how harmful can it be to relieve our beloved prey of some pressure for a short period of time? and if as you said we ALL got licenses, well then that would REALLY boost the comm take now wouldn't it? and isn't it a little like shooting fish in a barrell these days once you hit Stellwagon? not much sport there, Sport! just sum thoughts, Doug.

Who the eff,ever trapped buffalo?:confused:

Bassdawg we are all substantially stupider after reading that post...you truly make no sense in your metaphors...I am glad people like you are not in charge of any resource...I am done with this topic...Doug

hey Bob,

nobody "trapped" buffalo, but the trappers became the
buffalo hunters along with mountain men, Johnny Hayseeds from the Colonies, and whoever the efffelse wanted to collect a sweet bounty~~~ once the US Gov't targeted the bison as an integral part of "ridding the West of the heathen savages" the slaughter was awn and it was without regard for species or the Peoples whose Lives depended so heavily upon such a noble and majestic breed of animal. to this day, it is the cleanest red meat source on the planet and the added benefits of hide for shelter and clothing, teeth and horns for tools and utensils, etc,,,,,,,,,makes the buffalo such an amazing and God-given animal, imho.

hey Doug,

that's cool,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,just like most comm's i know~~~ when yer feet get put to the firey voice of conservation and reasonable sacrifice, or when you are asked to consider the Striper as something more than $$$$ cash COWS for the good of all and for the future of our children's children,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,then everyone else is an idiot, fudged science reigns supreme, and the status quo MUST REMAIN at all costs, beit species, environment, or man!!!

Jess,if you're really concerned about the future of the striped bass,armed with the knowledge that recs kill more bass than comms,I think you are trying to close the wrong fishery.I mean,if it's all about the bass' survival,you should close the fishery doing the most damage,no?

YUP! agreed, mi amigo.

for me it is just one part of the three pronged attack and
i certainly do not think that reducing the take is ALL that there is to the Striper puzzle.

we MUST be concerned with the worsening pollution of their spawning and migratory estuaries, we MUST also take care of one of their primary forages~ the bunker ~so that they can restore their biomass(better length to weight ratios) to pre purse seining figures and aid them in their recovery from the rampant bactaereosous(sp?) that endangers them yearly.

and we MUST do whatever else it takes to leave the American Striper Stocks better than we found them when our generation began to cast the surf,,,,,,,,,,,,,,am i asking for the moon? i don't think so, change, most certainly!

When te MPA areas happen, everyone will get their wish.... Except there's a small catch ;)
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

oh, yes most informative nebe....you know the real story before most of us peons.....you would find it at your leisure to inform us; the uninformed, uneducated simplefolk.....

When te MPA areas happen, everyone will get their wish.... Except there's a small catch ;)
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

PLEASE,,,,,,,,,,,,oh wise and Nebulous One,
tell us of the small catch?? but, i dare say

that we will let the MPA's fly? that's the stuff that is reserved
for the Left Coast and ALL its wingnut, whacko, enviroliberallis!!
:wall: :uhuh: :biglaugh: :uhuh: :wall:

PLEASE,,,,,,,,,,,,oh wise and Nebulous One,
tell us of the small catch?? but, i dare say

that we will let the MPA's fly? that's the stuff that is reserved
for the Left Coast and ALL its wingnut, whacko, enviroliberallis!!
:wall: :uhuh: :biglaugh: :uhuh: :wall:

Nope.Nebe's right,and the biggest reason he's right is that we are divided.We are three or four user groups,instead of one.You can bicker back and forth rec vs. comm,and pew and co.sees an easy target.I fearfully see mpa's in our future.

Nope I am all the user groups...I am a fisherman...whether commercial, recreational ect...I aire on the side of fairness...not one sided the sky is falling bs spewed by some here..the sky is not falling and if it does there are measures set to stop the stock from being pressured below certain thresholds...

PLEASE,,,,,,,,,,,,oh wise and Nebulous One,
tell us of the small catch?? but, i dare say

that we will let the MPA's fly? that's the stuff that is reserved
for the Left Coast and ALL its wingnut, whacko, enviroliberallis!!
:wall: :uhuh: :biglaugh: :uhuh: :wall:


The small catch is you won't be able to wet a line period. Not for a friggen choggie or a sea robin. The entire ara is closed to all hooks, all nets, all traps... Everything. The enviroment will heal- the bottom will recover from draggers, the grasses will return, more life will come back and there will be a lot of fish around.... TO LOOK AT... That's the small catch
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

What people fail to realize, it will put much, much more pressure on the open areas....
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Who the eff,ever trapped buffalo?:confused:

Lets ask Eelskimmer... Johnny? Who trapped buffalo?

The small catch is you won't be able to wet a line period. Not for a friggen choggie or a sea robin. The entire ara is closed to all hooks, all nets, all traps... Everything. The enviroment will heal- the bottom will recover from draggers, the grasses will return, more life will come back and there will be a lot of fish around.... TO LOOK AT... That's the small catch
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It's the underwater bird sanctuary, which means one usergroup gets to benefit, and it aint the fishers.

Meanwhile, we continue to circle our individual wagons...

Your right I detest commercial fishermen too many times I have been at sakonnet point and watched dead shorts be thrown into the harbor. Never mind the local rumor that shorts are being secretly trucked to canada for sale. And yes I do think with modern technology it is not as difficult to decimate bass. Commercials and charter captains are farr more effective than they were in past years. All I know is that I wont catch as many bass as cowhunter shows in the picture with his posting in ten years of surf fishing. Furthurmore I will let all of them go. Dead FISH I Dead Fish. Like Lee Wulf said a game fish is too precious to be used once. With that being said I would be in favor of a total moritorium.

Moratorium on what exactly? Fishing for bass, killing bass, selling bass? All of which is such a great idea. 99% of "us" on this board could spend more time with our families on land, we could save more money, we could get more sleep, we could take up another hobby, we could use less fossil fuel, we could kill less bait, BRILLIANT!

this is my favorite thread EVER!

ok,

steel cage grudge match:smash:

nebe, dannyplug and bassdawg

vs :yak5:

sashamy, cowhunter and me

the winner gets to decide something

Can it be like thunder dome ?

Can it be like thunder dome ?

you could put us on bungy cords and we could all beat each other with dull gaffs and boga grips

It could be like family feud with fish billys, or snagging trebbesl. It certainly dosent look like there will ever be an agreement. Meanwhile the the stocks of the smaller bass continue to go down and we concentrate on whats left( the big breeders that hopefully will be able to correct the problem in the future). Just like rome burning while nero played the fiddle.

I recall in years past the commercial fishing receiving government bailouts.
There is a possibility this will occur again..
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Is there going to be food served at the match? beef, chicken, fish...... or gamefish?

I recall in years past the commercial fishing receiving government bailouts.
There is a possibility this will occur again..
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

says who?

:smash::smash:

Says who.
I stated it is a "possibility"
You heard of the expression "history repeats itself"

The commercial fishery will claim financial hardship and the government will comply like wall st, banking industry, home foreclosues, extended umemployment benefits, etc etc etc. This has been done before when big brother buyed back fishing boats from New Bedford and other ports due to fish catch restrictions.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I see

hopefully we have learned from history

there WILL be a tea party if that happens again, I'm pretty sure of it. I wish there were more public outcry last time that happened.

I don't see bailouts when the housing market goes down the crapper and home builders and contractors are without work. It must be nice to have friends in high places. I guess fish populations cycle as well as our economy.

says who?

:smash::smash:

that bailout worked just like a gun buyback, u gave them an old wooden broken down piece of crap and they gave u money for it!

then u took the money and went and bought a newer, faster, bigger boat and kept doin what u were doin before.

i just love big "progressive " governments.

u go obama!