After years of using BLO for all my sealing needs.. I'm finaly convinced I've found something better that isnt a hassel to use and wont stink out my cellar...or add weight to my plugs.

My experiment is complete( except for the final seaon long field test), after leaving a sealed maple and a sealed birch blank in a bucket of water for 3 days, neither of them sank or split,.. unlike the unsealed ones, the maple sank in 3 hours.. it took about twice that to sink the birch...

I've switched to pure tung oil, I've tried it with turps and straight out of out of the can, with out alot of difference in the drying process...over night and they are bone dry... after cutting the sealed blanks ( both with and with out turps) to check the penetration, I am going with the pure tung oil, undiluted, I saw no appreciable difference in the penetration , but what appeared to be less "product" in the diluted one when i cut the plug in half....

besides the drying time, which I realy dont care about, my goal was to find something to maybe harden the softer woods, like the WRC that I make the majority of my plugs out of, it does seem that the natural resins in the tung oil did harden the wood somewhat.. the extent wont be known until I fish them a season.. I do know that I got quicker and more penetration on the hard woods than I did on the soft woods, 30 minutes seems to be the maximum time needed to get the best penetration, ones left overnight didnt seem to soak up anymore than the ones left for 30 minutes,, and unlike BLO, the hardwoods blanks did not sink( when left overnight) in the Tung oil as they did in the BLO, also, they did not gain any aprecieable weight, telling me that the product did dry completly internaly, something that BLO, at times never seems to do..The true test will be this summer when i fish them, but for now I'm going to "run" with it for the remainder of the building season.. I see ( or smell) one other benifit of the tung oil, plugs placed in a sealed contained after finishing dont give off that "chemical" smell like ones sealed in BLO... I've got plugs I made 3 years ago, in boxes that still give off an odor.. and that can not be good..


I'll have to report again in the fall on my final findings..

How much of a cost differential Joe?
But, your findings have got me to consider this change as well....

THANKS for sharing!!!

Joe how long were you soaking your plugs in the BLO for?? I find one minute (ayc) is more than sufficient! I do not have any odor afterwards.

Joe... When I did my testing on tung oil a couple years ago I found pretty much the same results, the harder the wood the better the penetration,,,,, I also found that I could get tung oil to literally penetrate ALL the way through a large dia. birch Darter... I learned some cool stuff during that testing phase,,,, I also enjoyed cutting the test blanks in half to see the results,,,,,

The tung oil I use is not pure but it seems to work pretty well and a gallon is fairly reasonable although the price has doubled in the last two years,,,,,,,

I do agree on the hard woods getting slightly harder with the tung oil,,, on WRC I found that my best results were achieved with a good penetrating epoxy applied directly to a heated blank,,,,,also the tighter the grain on the WRC the better results I had....

Good luck on your new sealer and I cant wait to hear about your findings,,,,

If cure (dry time) is not a problem stay with a proven method. I still think BLO/MS beats most.

I've been using a method employed by a down-east old salt wooden boat builder.

50/50 mix zinsser shellac and denat'd alcohol. I know there are some who don't like shellac for these applications, but if it worked on his wooden boats for years, its good enough for me (works perfect from my tests so far too)

Joe how long were you soaking your plugs in the BLO for?? I find one minute (ayc) is more than sufficient! I do not have any odor afterwards.

15 minutes, I'm sure 1 minute is enough, cedar doesnt need much protection... we'll see.. I may go back.. you never know unless you try.. it is alot more expensive than BLO... but if it makes a better product... fine if not... I'll go back as BLO is a proven method...

I tested soaking times between 1 minute and 1 hour at different intervals and found no more penetration from 1 minute to 1 hour......I have never had any water intrusion, cracking, peeling or lifting paint! The true test for me came when I lost one of my plugs over Cuttyhunk....went back over 4 weeks later and Afterhours found the plug wrapped around a pot line in the water...for 4 weeks it was submerged! Almost all the paint had been worn off by the rocks ( there was still some on and it was solid), there was no swelling, and no cracking anywhere particularly at the belly grommet and belly weight area....no cracking at all! I was sold! Could post pics of the plug later? Oh....and 1 eye was missing!

I tested soaking times between 1 minute and 1 hour at different intervals and found no more penetration from 1 minute to 1 hour......I have never had any water intrusion, cracking, peeling or lifting paint! The true test for me came when I lost one of my plugs over Cuttyhunk....went back over 4 weeks later and Afterhours found the plug wrapped around a pot line in the water...for 4 weeks it was submerged! Almost all the paint had been worn off by the rocks ( there was still some on and it was solid), there was no swelling, and no cracking anywhere particularly at the belly grommet and belly weight area....no cracking at all! I was sold! Could post pics of the plug later? Oh....and 1 eye was missing!


Cant ask for a better test than that... it's just an experiment.... like I said I'll give it a whirl... on the other hand, I've been walking this earth long enough not to put all my eggs in one basket.. half of each batch will still be sealed in BLO... I'm not in buisness so I have nothing to loose... only to gain.. at least my experiment gives us something to rehash one more time..
BTW... I picked Tung oil because after some research I found it has been sealing wood as long as BLO.. and is the main ingreediant in Water Lox which I know some guy's have been using for some time ....

Nice if the tung oil hardens the wood a bit like you say Joe! I was just expressing my experience for others to digest! There are many sealers that work well and they all have their own + and -! It would get boring if we were not trying new things......right? :)

Hey, Joe, how long does it take for that stuff to dry....when I was using BLO i used to have to wait a solid week to 10 days before i could paint it.

I let my blo/mins dry for a minimum of 5 days in the warmer months.....7 days in the winter! No problem! No need to rush it! How long were you dipping Kev?

Hey, Joe, how long does it take for that stuff to dry....when I was using BLO i used to have to wait a solid week to 10 days before i could paint it.

Kev- hardwoods that I really let soak it up I leave alone for 24 hrs,,,, but if you use it on cedars overnight is fine,,,,

What is BLO?

Hey, Joe, how long does it take for that stuff to dry....when I was using BLO i used to have to wait a solid week to 10 days before i could paint it.

24 hours is fine.. dry as a bone...

I give BLO 10 days.. as I've said before, time is not an issue with me, I've got no issues whatsoever, no paint adhesion problems etc...... I've got a million things going at once, I'm just loooking to see if I personaly find something that works better for me... and though i'd share with "the group"

What is BLO?

Another name for cocaine, which is what you need to be on to use that stuff. Takes for ever to dry, and the rags like to ignite spontaneously in your trash can and warm up your foundation for you.

I'm no expert on this, but I think BLO (boiled linseed oil) is just a wood oil with very poor crosslinking/drying behaviour. Varnishes and Tung oils are related compounds that dry much faster. I do not believe there is ANY advantage to using BLO for ANY kind of wood finishing, unless you want something cheap to spread on your cedar shingles and make them all nasty black. Yeah it works, but there is nothing special about it and plenty of other stuff works as well (and more safely).

What is BLO?

Boiled Linseed Oil..

Hey, Joe, how long does it take for that stuff to dry....when I was using BLO i used to have to wait a solid week to 10 days before i could paint it.

The main difference between BLO and Tung oil, is BLO requires heat to cure/dry....Where as Tung oil, relies on oxygen to cure..
Which brings me to a possible problem, skinning on the surface, I've got a 1 gallon can ( with cover) that I am using, by keeping the can full and covered, skinning has not ( as of yet) been an issue, it's been almost a month.. so far so good..

The main difference between BLO and Tung oil, is BLO requires heat to cure/dry....Where as Tung oil, relies on oxygen to cure..
Which brings me to a possible problem, skinning on the surface, I've got a 1 gallon can ( with cover) that I am using, by keeping the can full and covered, skinning has not ( as of yet) been an issue, it's been almost a month.. so far so good..

This is the big problem I was having when i was using waterlox. Great sealer but you have to be very careful about it skinning over. One way I've heard to fix it to make sure air isn't penetrating the can is to take cellophane over the opening before you close the jar. Then by putting the lid over the cellophane you effectively make it air tight.

I don't post much because I am content to sit back and learn from all you guys, but I have been using tung oil and turps with a splash of spar varnish for several years now and have had great results. I usually let dry for 1-2 days and then use rattle can oil primer as the base for my finish. Have had no problems with splitting, water-logging or adhesion.

I've tried tung oil, and had good results with it. I saw it on that woodworks show on DIY. The guy there (great woodworker btw) put on everything for a real nice finish. I got some in wal mart when they were doing a remodel for 1.00 a can. I also liked the way it dried.
I am going to try to make some small swimming baits for freshwater this year and was going to try that. Sealed a bunch of topwater stuff with it and no problems so far. I have smaller cans with a pop top. I put it in a good sealing glass jar. Still did get some drying on the top layer, but was able to keep the stuff in the original can in good shape.

Joe you'll find your plugs are much tougher if they are hard underneath the paint and clear coat .. I'm using death in a can ... cpes.. good stuff ,,very toxic .. what eles is new ..

Joe you'll find your plugs are much tougher if they are hard underneath the paint and clear coat .. I'm using death in a can ... cpes.. good stuff ,,very toxic .. what eles is new ..

Gives ya a nice glow...

OK.....here is the straight dope from an excellent book by Bob Flexner called "Understanding Wood Finishing".

Linseed oil comes from flax seed, but dries too slowly to be useful.
Boiled Linseed oil is made by adding metallic driers to speed drying (they used to heat the oil to dissolve them hence the "boiled" name). BLO penetrates deeply because it dries so slowly but has poor water resistance.

Tung oil comes from Tung trees in China. It is used in many high end paints and varnishes because it is more water resistant than BLO, but only after 5-6 coats used by itself. It is gummy when thick (dries soft like BLO)

Varnish, is an oil to which resin (polyurethane is a resin) has been added then heated. It dries much faster than straight oils. It doesn't penetrate as deeply because of it's shorter drying time, but is more water resistant and dries "harder".

CPES is a volatile thin form of epoxy that was developed to kill plug builders in Brockton and keep them from flooding the market with penis replica plugs.

Hope that straightens things out a bit.

sorry eddie, i'll pray for you.

CPES is a volatile thin form of epoxy that was developed to kill plug builders in Brockton and keep them from flooding the market with penis replica plugs.


:rotf2::biglaugh:

of wooden ships

and wooden Gutters on houses
...the installers would fill the gutters
with Linseed oil to water proof them :uhuh:
and have the drain all stuffed up

But...
I like tung oil for gun stocks too..
used to apply it with my thumb
and you can do many coats too.

I just sealed a couple of batches using Polyurethane /turpentine .
About 60/40 . I soaked no more than 5 minutes ,hung out to dry .
Results seem good . dried faster than blo [if that stuff ever dries?] 2days felt good to go .
I've been giving plugs a light sanding before priming . The poly seemed like it would prevent good adhesion. After a light sanding priming went well .. Paint to follow:soon:

Good thing we have the CPES taking care of the Brockton problem.

CPES is a volatile thin form of epoxy that was developed to kill plug builders in Brockton and keep them from flooding the market with penis replica plugs.


This Valentines Day I'll be giving out the evasive vagina plug . One has your name on it .. No strings attached ..

This Valentines Day I'll be giving out the evasive vagina plug . One has your name on it .. No strings attached ..


:rotf2::rotf2::rotf2:

I've been using helmsmans spar varnish for a while and I like the results but now that I am working on maple swimmers I was worried about weight gain from the 1 hour soak I usually do.

I just took the big maple donny's I was working on and took a rag and wiped the exterior down with the varnish. In a day or two once they are dried I'll dunk em to get the insides sealed. I'm hoping that doing the outside first will cut down on how much gets soaked up when I dunk them.

This Valentines Day I'll be giving out the evasive vagina plug . One has your name on it .. No strings attached ..

Wow.. I have heard they are very expensive, and tricky...don't always give you the desired action, demands constant change of colors on the bucktail and hardware, wants bronze at times, nickel or SS at others, and you can't use them for 5 days or so out of every month, tempermental too, I have been told if they find out you use another lure, they will never let you use them again.....

I was trying to hold off until plugfest but I've been working on a scratch and sniff fishing lure .. :uhuh: patend pending ..

I remember years ago Hab mentioning tung oil:uhuh:


you may find that different woods require different sealers, some may work well with a mixture of tung oil and varnish, some may be fine with tung oil thinned, some woods do fine with propianite. You have to keep in mind it's a system and primer has to be able to adhere to whatever you use.

Didn't CCB use Laquer ? I think sealer and top coat ..

I remember years ago Hab mentioning tung oil:uhuh:


you may find that different woods require different sealers, some may work well with a mixture of tung oil and varnish, some may be fine with tung oil thinned, some woods do fine with propianite. You have to keep in mind it's a system and primer has to be able to adhere to whatever you use.

This is DEAD ON,,,,, The only thing I can add to this is that the softer the wood the more important it is to harden the blank before primer, paint and epoxy or your plug will break like and egg the first rock it bounces off.:uhuh::uhuh:

Didn't CCB use Laquer ? I think sealer and top coat ..

I know they used lacquer for the top coat... not sure about the sealer...

And what slip said is dead on.... different sealers act differently for different woods...

for inquiring minds... waterlox, tung oil, tung oil finish, waterlox tung oil, floor finishing, floor refinishing, tongue oil varnish, polyurethane, floor finish, wood floor finishing, wood floor refinishing, wood floor varnish, wood sealer, wood floor, hardwood floor, VOC (http://www.waterlox.com/site/432/default.aspx)...

Has anyone ever tried Watco finishing oil for sealer?
Just as BLO, be careful with any rags with this stuff too.


Oil Finishes (http://www.wwch.org/Technique/Finishes/OilFin.htm)

some more interesting reading about Watco

I have tried lacquer before as a top coat, it doesn't seem to like the paint though. turns into snakeskin essentially. I guess CCB used special paint too?

The paints and lacquers Creek Chub used are illegal today because of VOC and lead content (I think). As a kid we had lacquer paints called "airplane dope" that would make you dizzy, but some guy in Brockton bought them all up and you can't get them anymore.

Nitrocellulose Lacquer was a standard (and very tough) furniture clearcoat until recently. I suspect the old lure guys like Pichney and Musso used something similar, but burned out the ozone layer and cost Salty all his hair.

I'll have to report again in the fall on my final findings..

Joe,

Anything to report on the tung? I just purchased some after reading your post about switching to tung and want to try it out on my next batch of plugs.

Joe,

Anything to report on the tung? I just purchased some after reading your post about switching to tung and want to try it out on my next batch of plugs.

yup... although I did not fish plugs as much this season ( fussy fish = eel use) I soaked them enough to be convinced that this is the way to go..
One "go to" plug in particular got hook scarred and blue fish attacked pretty good, most of the epoxy and paint was removed from the exterior of the hook areas....I had planned on cutting it appart to check for water stain/intrusion when I was done fishing at the end of the season... but last Saturday a freight train took me through the mooring field.. she shoud be entering the canal post haste.. towing about 20 yards of 15lb Ande and my PLUG!...

Aside from that, I've got a few goo-goo's that stood up to about 20 hours each of wire line trolling and a hundred fish or so between them... the plugs are beat up but do not appear to be soaking any water...I'll be giving them the " band saw Eddie" treatment when I hang up my rods for the season..

The only thing that has not had a good test are the darters, which are birch and maple, but the boat's coming out of the water Sunday... so the rest of the season I'll be rock hopping and jetty jumping and will beat them on the rocks( and hopefull some fish beat them as well)...I'll know by the end of the month for certain..

as an aside/benifit... the plugs sealed in tung oil ( I leave the cases in the boat and they are subjected to heat and cold more than the ones hanging or packed in bags in the shop) showed no sign of bleed through.... sommething I can say happend to quite a few plugs I sealed in BLO.. as the Clorox comercial said " the whites stay whiter"

This is the set up I used for seailng with the Tung once i commited to it...Each set of tubes are connected, thus allowing for lesser amounts of "product" to be used...and compensating for different dispertion of the liquid... each wire has a slight bend in it to hold the plug in place, this also allows for adjustment to the length of the plug...

I've gone to a double dip, 24 hours appart... it seems to give the best coverage and hardens the softer woods..

for short term storage, i slide the plexi cover over the tubes, I have test caps that I put in each tube for long term storge....

just last night I was cleaning the shop ( and rods and reels) I checked the mixture to see if it had "crusted".. the solution was as good as the day I put it in... I did top off each tube ( to aid in locking out air) before calling it a season... I plan on stealing the wifes turkey baster to remove excess before sealing any plugs to avoid spill over....

Great tips as always Joe....

Thanks for the update. Gonna be doing some experimenting with the tung next week.

One more thing, do you wipe the plugs after dipping, or just let them hang and drip dry?

One more thing, do you wipe the plugs after dipping, or just let them hang and drip dry?

I dip them twice... no wiping....after the second dip, a glaze will form from the varnish resins.. I give that a light sanding before i prime...

after yesterday I think Mike is going to be working down his cellar a lot this winter.

I'm about ready to begin....I hauled the boat Saturday afternoon... Washed, winterized and covered it on Sunday.. then picked all the green tomatoes and rototilled the garden...I've allready cleaned the gutters and put the storm windows up.... it's go time...

after yesterday I think Mike is going to be working down his cellar a lot this winter.

Just bought my wife and kids respirators...turned some of those donny pines at 4:30 this morning too...thanks for the design tips.:btu:

is that a one piece four way fitting
or are the unions covered by the metal strap?

very original by the way...

is that a one piece four way fitting
or are the unions covered by the metal strap?

very original by the way...

I glued the pieces as needed... I figure 3 rows of 4 was plenty..

here are a close up of the plug "holders" as well as the test caps..

your an inspiration......... that is for sure :wave:

I dip them twice... no wiping....after the second dip, a glaze will form from the varnish resins.. I give that a light sanding before i prime...

Joe,

What's your dry time with the tung? I dipped/wiped/hung a bunch about ten days ago and a few seem to still be wet. Looks like the tung came right up through the primer/paint.The yellowing occurred after I finished the sys 3 and took them off the dryer this morning. Does it sound like I need a longer dry time?

I have 40 or so plugs ready for primer, but don't want to mess them up. Think I should give them a couple more weeks before prime/paint/epoxy?

Joe,

What's your dry time with the tung? I dipped/wiped/hung a bunch about ten days ago and a few seem to still be wet. Looks like the tung came right up through the primer/paint.The yellowing occurred after I finished the sys 3 and took them off the dryer this morning. Does it sound like I need a longer dry time?

I have 40 or so plugs ready for primer, but don't want to mess them up. Think I should give them a couple more weeks before prime/paint/epoxy?

overnight... prime the next day.. something doesnt sound Kosher...

did you use pure Tung oil or a blend...

overnight... prime the next day.. something doesnt sound Kosher...

did you use pure Tung oil or a blend...

Pure, got it from Rockwell woodworking, says 100 percent pure tung oil on the jug. Plugs were dipped for about 5-10 minutes, then hung to dry for about one week, then lightly sanded. I'm using zinnser cover stain oil based primer. The plugs that came out good are like iron, but a couple others seem to be excessivley wet in addition to some bleeding through.

The only other thing I can come up with is this: Most of the bleed through is on the belly side of the plugs where I sanded the wood filler down. Maybe sanded too much and re-exposed the oil?

Used a bunch of different wood also and had the problem with all 5 wood types:

White pine

AYC

WRC

Birch

Spanish Cedar

And there in lies the problem.... I've been using a blend.. not the most economical way to start, but it needed no thinning..... I'd try cutting it 60:40 with turps....

I'd try cutting it 60:40 with turps....

Got it. In the meantime I'll stay away from white bellies and go with more yellow and silver until the current inventory is used up.
I had the same issue this summer with blo, but gave the plugs an extra week or so to dry before finishing and they came out ok.

I had about 4 dozen plugs primmed and waiting for paint since last April, that go for a charity raffel I donate to each fall, I started painting them last night, I inspected them closely, none of them bled through...I primed all of these no more than 48 hours after sealing...so I'm confident that once you thin the TO a little and adjust your dry time all should be good..

Thanks, Joe.

I just spun all 25 bodies on the lathe. I got just about all the old oil off with sandpaper and I'm back to step 1 again in the finishing process.:uhuh:

I'm going to mix up another batch with the turps/tung and report back.

go mike go. luv to see the enthusiasm.

Been doing 50/50 tung and terps. Needless to say things are much improved, but I still find the drying time with any oil based sealers to be lengthy. I'm giving all my stuff 2-3 weeks before I prime, mainly on account of the end grain still being wet despite the plug body itself being dry. I also made a "custom" dryer...:laugha:

Mike I just sealed some large plugs, 3 hour soak, AYC and Pine, and I was priming 3 days later with the spar sealer. I usually don't worry about time to dry, I usually wait at least a week most times as I got plenty of stuff in various stages, but it does dry pretty fast. Not trying to dis your technique. There are many ways to seal a plug. Got to use what you like and experimenting the way you are will teach you a lot more than just going on what some person tells you. More for others just getting into this insanity to offer some alternatives. I'll bet they both offer the same end result.
I thought I was the only one who dried stuff at work.:)

I soak at home and hang at work, and then hang at home after they are semi dried after the work day, nite is over. That way they don't stink up the house.

Mike I just sealed some large plugs, 3 hour soak, AYC and Pine, and I was priming 3 days later with the spar sealer. I usually don't worry about time to dry, I usually wait at least a week most times as I got plenty of stuff in various stages, but it does dry pretty fast. Not trying to dis your technique. There are many ways to seal a plug. Got to use what you like and experimenting the way you are will teach you a lot more than just going on what some person tells you. More for others just getting into this insanity to offer some alternatives. I'll bet they both offer the same end result.
I thought I was the only one who dried stuff at work.:)

I soak at home and hang at work, and then hang at home after they are semi dried after the work day, nite is over. That way they don't stink up the house.

The spar unquestionably dries much quicker than the oil. Had I just stuck with your recommendation from last spring I would still be using spar. Seeing I dropped 50 bucks on a gallon of tung, I feel guilty not using it all up. Once its gone I'm going back to the spar.

....... I usually wait at least a week most times as I got plenty of stuff in various stages, ........

Sort of the understatement of the year I'd say.

The spar unquestionably dries much quicker than the oil. Had I just stuck with your recommendation from last spring I would still be using spar. Seeing I dropped 50 bucks on a gallon of tung, I feel guilty not using it all up. Once its gone I'm going back to the spar.

That sucks that you cannot get the stuff to dry.. that is/was never an issue with the Tung for me....it's coming down to the cost and longevity/practicality of it for me...

One thing that all of this varnish ( includijng urethain) has in common... it is still derived from the reduction of Tung or linseed, and sometimes flax seed oils... then thinners and UV blockers are added....i guess it all boils down( as many of us have said many times) it's about what works for each individual....

FYI... if my spelling is worse today than usual.. I forgot my damn glasses today.. I lost the ones keep in my truck... so I'm screwed!

The spar unquestionably dries much quicker than the oil. Had I just stuck with your recommendation from last spring I would still be using spar. Seeing I dropped 50 bucks on a gallon of tung, I feel guilty not using it all up. Once its gone I'm going back to the spar.

LOL. I usually don't even listen to my own recommendations. I got several cans of stuff down my cellar half full that I have given up on ,and PNG has us all beaten, Eddie too, both always experimenting.
If val oil was still easy to get I'd probably still be using that.

Sort of the understatement of the year I'd say.

Hey hey hey , but true:uhuh:

I'm off to work right now so later I can band saw up some stock to start some more plugs, not finishing the many that are in various stages of completion.:confused:
That is my goal though this year to finish up stuff I have already started, really it is.:uhuh:

joe are still using the blended tung oil??

This is a great post with a ton of information. I have been using BLO, but to be honest it scares me thinking I could burn the place down. Luckily it has been farily cold and I just dry the plugs with a couple paper towls and thow them in the fire place to get rid of. That Tung oil sounds great, but expensive. I may give it a try when my current mixed BLO is gone.

joe are still using the blended tung oil??

still using it... have changed the mixture to a 50/50 mix with poly utrethain, thinnned with about 20% oderless minerl spirits... this combo is less prone to skinning and is less expensive.. dries quickly and never bleeds through... off season I store in 1 gallon paint cans filled to capacity and sealed with duct tape... at the start of the season the mixture is poured through a paint funel into the tubes i use to dip my plugs in... after the plugs have been "dipped and dripped" I put covers on the 3" PVC tubes I use to dip my plugs in and cap them off with a wedge shaped cover ( so I can get them out) the solution in the tubes requires stirring each time I need to use it...

Great post. So glad I have 3 gallons of val oil on the shelf.

Great post. So glad I have 3 gallons of val oil on the shelf.

I still use Val Oil and if it is unopened I'd gladly buy it from you.

Anyone still using Tung as their sealer?