Another Bill brought up for Hearing before the MA Joint Committee Environment and Natural Resources last Thursday at the Boston State House, along with the fateful H796 proposal, was a plea to open striped bass harvest to speargunners also. Interestingly, this interest group made it quite clear that they were also opposed to the passage of the H796.

Their argument stated that it was a mere "oversight" when MA made striped bass a hook and line fish, and this oversight should now be corrected. Also, everybody else (states) does it.

Wow! What do you think? Can they buy a $65 commercial license so to be able to compete in the present existing commercial striped bass fishery? Can they "fish" at night?

I'm trying to imagine 80 boats snapping wire at the Race, and somebody dropping a dive flag in the middle and trying to shoot the fish we're catching.

I'm sure they will receive a warm reception.

I cant see it happening. There is talk about increasing the size and decreasing the limit on fish, then they want to open it up to spearfishing. I dont have a problem with spearfishing but i think that if we want to protect the stock we should not be adding another method of harvest. Let them try to "Fish" at night around Chatham.

There are a handful of guys who spearfish commercially in RI. Mainly for blackfish and a few others. Not sure about bass.

But I have no problem as long as they keep to the 1 @ 36" size limit like the rest of us should have to!

i've never understood why anybody who fishes with hook and line would be opposed to spear fishing. what exactly makes the fishing with hook and line so noble?

i'm all for legalizing spear fishing in MA if the rules are the same (and why wouldn't they be?) as for hook and line. if i had more free time, it would be something I would want to try.

The two issues with spearfishing that bother me is the ability to cull the largest fish present and the ability to put out a dive flag and monopolize a spot. Add chum to the equation and the idea worries me.

There are a handful of guys who spearfish commercially in RI. Mainly for blackfish and a few others. Not sure about bass.

But I have no problem as long as they keep to the 1 @ 36" size limit like the rest of us should have to!

There are guys doing this at the cement barge all summer, a whole section nearby was blocked off every saturday with yaks and flags

what's next...black powder and bow? in all seriousness i share georges concerns.

As a diver since 1976
The one thing that works against the bass for spear fishing
Bass being a real predatory fish often follow divers around
Slightly off in the distance looking for what the diver may stir up
The diver himself becomes the lure
I have often “kneeled” on the bottom and watch a school of them circling me
Which I think puts the bass at a disadvantage
Black bass, Cod, Wolf fish, Haddock, Lobster are all fish you have to look for
I.e.. Hunt. Stripers hear you and hover around you about 20-40 ft away if in the area
Stripers stalking instinct have been one of those things I have always enjoyed about
My dive experience here in New England I have often broken up small lobsters
And watch them dart by me scooping them up!

yea .. my dive friends have told me stripers follow them .. Doesn't seem very sporting ,, more of a meat fishers thing . easy pickins imho

To me, there is way too much of a guessing game while down there. Everything under water looks 20% larger than it actually is. I think a lot of mistakes would be made.

Talk to a spearfisherman, especially a good one, and they can estimate size in the water as well as we can out.

As far as being easy... maybe on a wreck on a calm day, but the guys who freedize down to 60ft to pop a bass have my vote as being OK.

and the ability to put out a dive flag and monopolize a spot.

This has been a sometimes contentious issue around Block.

Spearfishing - seems every user group seems to want a piece of the striped bass pie.

Hopefully MSBA will rally the troops on this bill.

DZ

Bass being a real predatory fish often follow divers around
Slightly off in the distance looking for what the diver may stir up
The diver himself becomes the lure
I have often “kneeled” on the bottom and watch a school of them circling me
Which I think puts the bass at a disadvantage

how is that any different than chumming. for that matter, bass are predatory fish and like to feed on prey that is swept up in currents - is drifting an eel in an outflow an issue since it takes advantage of the bass's nature and puts him at a disadvantage. is trolling for tuna and marlin an issue because they are attracted to the prop wash?

To me, there is way too much of a guessing game while down there. Everything under water looks 20% larger than it actually is. I think a lot of mistakes would be made.

i'd be willing to bet that alot more fish would die because inexperienced rod and reel anglers get excited by a 27" fish and have it out of the water for too long while searching for a tape measure and taking pictures. your making a big assumption that spear fisherman will not be experienced and aware enough to avoid or limit this.

The two issues with spearfishing that bother me is the ability to cull the largest fish present and the ability to put out a dive flag and monopolize a spot. Add chum to the equation and the idea worries me.

i can see the concern here. however, rod and reel fisherman can monopolize a spot too. you just need to get there first. and rod and reel fisherman can cull fish too. just release them until you get the size you want. not quite to the same degree, though.

also, i think spear fisherman will be a small group and have very little impact compared to rod and reel on stocks, etc.

note that all of this is said from a surf perspective, and i admit that i may be unaware or underestimating the effects on boat fisherman. but either way, i guess i do not see anything that entitles rod and reel fisherman to a resource that spear fisherman are not given access to. where's the line. what would be really good for the species is if we all stopped fishing for them.

The guy who fishes for 50 schoolies a day will kill more fish than the spear fisherman who pulls the trigger once or twice.
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There is a small group of commercial spear fishermen in RI who regularly sell 5 fish/day averaging 150-200 lbs.......well known fact among Rhode Island RR commercial guys

I have a commercial license /

& I have friends that dive for steamers & necks ................................ that a whole other story .

But I have one that has told me about the same t=bass kinda waiting for him / & he would throw tape worms in the water column & the bass would go after it // down the road / just about eating out of his hand .

A&& I have read articles & seen some shows / they are good what they do & they have a very good knowledge of the size fish they are targeting .
I,d have no idea what they would do if they were fishing the size fish the upper narragansett bay has been holding in the spring .
30-36 in fish with MANY being 32 - 34 with a splattering of blues .
As soon one has already stated & it was a very hot issue in rI 20 years ago . is the zone / piece of water they can control by the flag ;

Too much has gone on in RI concerning diving / but that,s neither here or there ;

what,s to be will be & we have to live with it ;

Nebe .leave my schoolies out of this ><><<,.:fishin:

There is a small group of commercial spear fishermen in RI who regularly sell 5 fish/day averaging 150-200 lbs.......well known fact among Rhode Island RR commercial guys


I wasn't going to post on this issue about divers and what goes on under the surface, but I can tell you as one who had lobster pots in the past the above quote would just be another way in Mass to poach friekin bass. GGGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

I wasn't going to post on this issue about divers and what goes on under the surface, but I can tell you as one who had lobster pots in the past the above quote would just be another way in Mass to poach friekin bass. GGGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.....that's why I mentioned it.....................

Spearfishermen can take stripers in every state but MA. So why should MA be different?

Also, there are not a lot of people who do this. It's a small user group. I used to do it, and believe me, it's no small feat to free dive down 20 feet and stick a decent fish
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Let them spearfish for the bass. The mortality rate will be smaller than the mortality rate on a hot May weekend at the canal due to the small population of proficient spearfishermen. Look at it this way; one tow from a dragger out east in October that sets on a school of bass will kill a 1000 times more in one hour than the entire New England spearfishing population will kill in a year. Sometimes we as fishermen want them all for us and not share with other groups.

I've been told of some R.I guys who have Ma. commercial permits and bring in some REAL COWS during the season and most of the fish have the obvious hole blown through them from the spear.
Word is that they spear fish for them in R.I. waters and truck them up to Ma. to off load to the buyer.
I'm pretty certain my permit says "Rod & Reel" only !

i've never understood why anybody who fishes with hook and line would be opposed to spear fishing. what exactly makes the fishing with hook and line so noble?

i'm all for legalizing spear fishing in MA if the rules are the same (and why wouldn't they be?) as for hook and line. if i had more free time, it would be something I would want to try.

How many can you release after you have shot the fish with a spear gun? That's the problem I have. And you can't say that all fish that were speared were of legal limit.

I have no problem if all they shot were keepers and could only keep the same as rod and reel guys.

Lets just keep welcoming in more and more user groups. Everyone knows there is an unending supply of stripers. Why not the dynamite group. just as sporting and selective as a net.

How many can you release after you have shot the fish with a spear gun? That's the problem I have. And you can't say that all fish that were speared were of legal limit.

I have no problem if all they shot were keepers and could only keep the same as rod and reel guys.

How many shorts are measured by fishermen, photos taken, passed around to buddies so they can take pictures or gill hooked or just kicked back into the water. How many bass are gut hooked by letting the fish "take the bait" or even yo-yoing? How many die. What about the masses of schoolies caught with trebles? They all dont survive trust me. There is no basis to the argument you make. We fishermen kill way more bass incidentally in a week than the whole spear community will kill in the season.

For reference I dive and catch lobsters. I am almost 99% correct on size before I measure them under water. The same goes for the spear fishermen I'm sure. How many shorts are killed during commercial season or winched in on wire and mutilated before being thrownm thrown back during any weekend ?

Having chased stripers with a gun since 1968 and having been a competitive spearo for over 15 years, I think I have a pretty good handle on bass behavior underwater.

Hooligans, you must be talking about Plymouth or most likely Rockport where there is a lot of daytime bottle diving for lobsters and no spearing allowed. Believe me, stripers don't follow spearos from any distance, they move when you move, but when they are in a state like MA or CT where you can't shoot them, they do behave with a little less caution. As far as offering them "small" (illegal) lobsters...sure you can chum bass where they're already conditioned to follow divers.

Regardless of how difficult and noble it is to hunt them with a gun (something I have no problems justifying) I can't see allowing spearfishing in MA. Why? Because unless they make it a game fish you will soon learn how much this sport has grown since the 60's. Now, there are dozens of highly proficient divers that are strictly targeting trophy size fish, often times crossing into the EEZ and then selling their fish. I dare say that proportionate to the number of divers shooting stripers, there are even more pirates that don't hesitate to brake the law. As for diving the Race and spearing fish, a small group of divers have been doing that for over 20 years...I know because I filmed some of the best off of Valiant Rock. If you open MA to spearfishing there WILL be user conflicts in every hot spot you can think of.

IMHO let sleeping dogs lie and give the bass a safe haven in MA where they are already under too much commercial pressure.

Our fish are already under pressure from many many directions (water quality in spawning areas, loss of forage to commercial fisheries, possibly climate change, etc..), so why add yet another threat to their continued survival as a species?

Leave well enough alone.

I've been told of some R.I guys who have Ma. commercial permits and bring in some REAL COWS during the season and most of the fish have the obvious hole blown through them from the spear.
Word is that they spear fish for them in R.I. waters and truck them up to Ma. to off load to the buyer.
I'm pretty certain my permit says "Rod & Reel" only !

That's no lie as I see it every week. They're actually a couple CT guys with Mass licenses. Not sure where the fish come from, but they are all large fish with holes just behind the gill plate when they hit the scales.

I used to do some scuba diving for lobsters and to be honest , I can't think of a more difficult way to try to catch a striper! Divers using spearguns is OK with me. The arguments that they have heard people break the laws because the divers can't be seen is no different than all the breaking of the law that goes on by rod and reel guys in the dark of night.

For recs to try to exclude everyone else just makes us look like we are selfish. Its one thing to be against commercial fishing but it gives us a bad rep as selfish if we don't want Recs using other techniques to be able to fish.

The argument about the divers grabbing a spot where others want to fish is legitimate though. 10 boats can fish an area but 1 diver and 9 boats can't without risk of killing the diver. There should be some sort of rules to govern that aspect of spear fishing.

Our fish are already under pressure from many many directions (water quality in spawning areas, loss of forage to commercial fisheries, possibly climate change, etc..), so why add yet another threat to their continued survival as a species?


That is precisely the type of faulty logic that is going to isolate us. They are NOT "our fish." They belong to everyone and everyone is entitled to use the resource. You can bet you bottom dollar now with the salt water license and the bad economy, that if we continue to make those kind of arguments, someone is going to decide that it time for the public to stop paying for managing this resource and your going to wind up with a $50 - 100 a year special "striper tag" to be able to fish for them.

I cant see it happening. There is talk about increasing the size and decreasing the limit on fish, then they want to open it up to spearfishing. I dont have a problem with spearfishing but i think that if we want to protect the stock we should not be adding another method of harvest. Let them try to "Fish" at night around Chatham.

I'm suprised at the resistance, although in disclosyure I do spearfish, which I consider to be much more environmentally friendly than hook and line (which I also enjoy). There's no bycatch in spearfishing, no released fish that will die. Also, I can avoid hurting spawning female size fish, and only harvest smaller guys. I have to believethe impact on fish stocks is way less significant for spearfishing.

Also, not many people do it. It's a lot harder.

[QUOTE=Fish_Eye;740973]Hooligans, you must be talking about Plymouth or most likely Rockport where there is a lot of daytime bottle diving for lobsters and no spearing allowed. Believe me, stripers don't follow spearos from any distance, they move when you move, but when they are in a state like MA or CT where you can't shoot them, they do behave with a little less caution. As far as offering them "small" (illegal) lobsters...sure you can chum bass where they're already conditioned to follow divers.

I was talking about Plymouth Mike. GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRR

I am sure that there are a lot of really good spear fishermen out there that can "estimate" really well as to whether a fish is legal or not before they spear it. But, that is what it is, an estimate. You do not know for sure until you have it up and dead and measure it. Obviously, with experienced spearfishermen they know, just like us rod and reel guys know. Still, it is a very inexact science as to whether or not a fish is legal before you spear it. Especially to those that first start. I remember spearing what I thought was a world record tautog and could not believe how small it was when I got to the surface. I would hate for this to happen to stripers.

I am sure that there are a lot of really good spear fishermen out there that can "estimate" really well as to whether a fish is legal or not before they spear it. But, that is what it is, an estimate. You do not know for sure until you have it up and dead and measure it.

No worse than the guys who drag a 26" fish around for a while before measuring it. Lay it on the rocks, take pictures. Rummage through bag and grab tape measure. Bring buddy over, show him bass. Measure again to be sure it isn't actually 28". then 5-10min later, release the fish.

Weigh the number of potential spear guys vs rod and reel guys... it is a really small impact here guys.... :smash:

No worse than the guys who drag a 26" fish around for a while before measuring it. Lay it on the rocks, take pictures. Rummage through bag and grab tape measure. Bring buddy over, show him bass. Measure again to be sure it isn't actually 28". then 5-10min later, release the fish.

Weigh the number of potential spear guys vs rod and reel guys... it is a really small impact here guys.... :smash:

True enough, good point.

I would only add that eventually the rod and reel guys' fish gets back in the water and most likely lives. Where as, once a spear is through the fish it is dead. Short or not.

I would only add that eventually the rod and reel guys' fish gets back in the water and most likely lives.

You really believe that?

Think Mid-summer tourist season, 26" bass inhaling a small hook on a catch all rig baited with sand worm or squid strip....

which scenario is a lot more likely? That or one of the few spearfisherman that misjudges a fish?

I know quite a few spearers and they are very respectful of the species... maybe it comes from seeing them in their habitat.. I don't know, I stay above the surface...

http://1.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kwknjwT7As1qzaxtbo1_500.jpg

I thought my last calamari tasted a little funny…..But good :drool:

Great Picture Nebe!!

Because there is air in your mask or goggles between your eyes and the glass and the water , everything gets magnified. I used to know how much but not sure , maybe 25%?? A diver learns pretty quickly to factor that in when sizing up something in the water. When we took lobsters by scuba diving , the difference between taking 30 legal on an hour of air and just measuring 30 shorts in that hour was the ability to discriminate about a 1/4 of an inch. If you have ever done it , there are a gazillion about an 1/8 of an inch too small. If you waste your time grabbing them and measuring , your air will run out while you waste time. You learn in about 1 dive what a lefgal one looks like under water , even with the magnification do to the index of refraction.

Now if you can learn the difference between a lobster 1/8 inch under vs 1/6 inch over , what makes you think a diver can't learn which fish are 30 inches vs one at 27 7/8". At least as a diver they get to see the thing before they shoot it. A fisherman tosses out his offering and has no idea what will bit it until he reels it in.

Now there are probably divers who just shoot at anything and don't care just like there are guys who catch short stripers on rod and reel and drop kick them back into the water or step on them to keep them still to take out the hook. There's nothing you can do about those "one in every crowd" kind of guys. Doesn't matter if they are using a handine , rod and reel or a speargun , they just don't care about returning the fish alive. I don't think most divers fit that mold any more than most fisherman.

. I do understand they can take up a good spot where 10 boat or surf guys could fish but boaters also take up spots where surf guys can fish and fly fisherman take up anough space for 5 spincasters to fish. That's just the nature of the game.

There is no reason why divers should not be able to take a fish , same as a rod and reel guy