From the CCT article today about the demise of the bass bill.....

"...According to the National Marine Fisheries Service, the recreational catch, for instance, has dropped off dramatically over the past four years. In 2006, recreational fishermen caught (he means kept) nearly 9 million fish. Last year, they caught (again kept) less than 2.6 million. Along the Atlantic coast, fishermen caught 28.6 million fish in 2006 but only 6.9 million last year.

But scientists at the state Division of Marine Fisheries and at the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission, which has authority over fish whose territories span two or more states' coastal waters, believe the striped bass population remains extremely healthy and does not require any drastic measures at this time. They point out that, despite a recent downturn, the spawning stock remains at a level nearly double what is required to maintain the population at healthy levels.

DMF Director Paul Diodati blamed poor environmental conditions in southern spawning areas for the decline. "


So, the recreational fishing success has dropped 300% in 4 years but everything is great and we should continue fishing at current levels because there are fish somewhere and we can't do anything about the spawning areas so the decline is not our fault.


WTF ARE THESE MORONS THINKING and is there anybody out there on this board who actually is sure this BULLSHIIT about "everything is fine the bass have just moved offshore along the WHOLE EFFING EXTENT OF THEIR RANGE so there is no problem" is correct? Sure enough to threaten the ruin of recreational fishing for striped bass along the whole coast? Even if there are decent numbers of breeders left, how does that rationalize killing them when they're struggling to reproduce and numbers are dropping this fast?

Bureaucrats are idiots!!!!!

Not sure I buy into the numbers as the data collection methods are flawed, IMO.

Anectdotally speaking there seems to be fewer fish being caught each year since the late 90's, but back then you could walk on their backs at certain times, which isn't necessarily good for the stocks, either. Most of the fish were real slim back then and I remember catching lots of fish off Truro around the 50" mark that barely weighed 40#...most weighed in the mid 30# class.

Fish seem to be bigger now with regard to length/weight as compared to back then, and perhaps this idicates we're closer to a predator/prey balance than we were back then.

Whatever the case may be, I'm doing my part for marine conservation by killing more trees than eels this year. Hopefully I'll be allocated a place in heaven replete with sandy beaches, gentle surf, and comfortable neoprene.

I went to a RI .DEM meeting last week & heard the exact same B/A

they showed a graph & A YOY index . that was issued by one of the national divisions .
OK . everything is cool // don,t f $%^&* with it .. everythings the same for 2010 .. no changes ;:soon:
NEXT :fury:

From the CCT article today about the demise of the bass bill.....

"...According to the National Marine Fisheries Service, the recreational catch, for instance, has dropped off dramatically over the past four years. In 2006, recreational fishermen caught (he means kept) nearly 9 million fish. Last year, they caught (again kept) less than 2.6 million. Along the Atlantic coast, fishermen caught 28.6 million fish in 2006 but only 6.9 million last year.

But scientists at the state Division of Marine Fisheries and at the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission, which has authority over fish whose territories span two or more states' coastal waters, believe the striped bass population remains extremely healthy and does not require any drastic measures at this time. They point out that, despite a recent downturn, the spawning stock remains at a level nearly double what is required to maintain the population at healthy levels.

DMF Director Paul Diodati blamed poor environmental conditions in southern spawning areas for the decline. "


So, the recreational fishing success has dropped 300% in 4 years but everything is great and we should continue fishing at current levels because there are fish somewhere and we can't do anything about the spawning areas so the decline is not our fault.

WTF ARE THESE MORONS THINKING and is there anybody out there on this board who actually is sure this BULLSHIIT about "everything is fine the bass have just moved offshore along the WHOLE EFFING EXTENT OF THEIR RANGE so there is no problem" is correct? Sure enough to threaten the ruin of recreational fishing for striped bass along the whole coast? Even if there are decent numbers of breeders left, how does that rationalize killing them when they're struggling to reproduce and numbers are dropping this fast?

Thanks, George, for posting this - I was getting tired of feeling old, cynical and almost alone in my opinion (except for the other guys of my vintage) and I haven't yet been swayed by protests to the contrary

While I can't do much about the first two since it comes with the territory, I haven't bought the 'everything is just hunky-friggin'-dorey' argument for quite a while...:no2:

As with virtually everything else, money is at the root of all evil - and the supposed viability of the striped bass fishery is just a ruse that's part of a much larger economic engine that goes well beyond just tackle shops and charter boats and related industries - starting with Omega Protein, agricultural methods in the coastal watersheds, etc ,etc - the list of contributing factors is long and the money and political will to do anything about it isn't really there

More importantly, how do you go about forcing a paradigm shift on issues of those proportions that will affect the coastwide community from Maine to the Carolinas?

You know, we all noted with sadness the passing of Bob Pond not very long ago - I suppose the question now is who among us will be the next Bob Pond with that level of determination and courage to actually do something about it

George,

Thanks for this post. I have been critical of the DFM and their ability to manage any fish and in particular using rear-view mirror and selective data approaches to justify legislation to appease their commercial interests.

This is EXACTLY what I mean...yeah no one is catching much of anything, the fish are sick, predation (from other species like seals) are up, forage fish populations are in the crapper, actual catch numbers and mean sizes are down (from a number of sources) and despite what he said YOY index is NOT strong it is pretty weak, don't forget they changed the way YOY index is computed SO if they used the older method (which was used for many years prior ) we would be well under the threshold, it is only with this new model that things appear healthy.

All this is being ignored.

THIS is why the gamefish bill is important, it takes DMF OUT OF THE LOOP. These guys are a bunch of fools who have not helped out fishery but help destroy it.

The main reason they are saying this is to protect their OWN interest...their job.

Bottom line: IF YOU WAIT UNTIL YOU SEE DISASTER CATCH RESULTS IT WILL BE TOO LATE TO DO ANYTHING! It would be better to trim the take BEFOR we get into a bad situation.

WTF??? How stupid are these people?

While we are at it, SOMEBODY PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO US GUYS WHO ARE TOO STUPID TO FIGURE IT OUT ON OUR OWN

The recreational catch/release and catch/keep has decreased 3 fold since 2006, yet the commercial take is steady (only because an increase was turned down by 1 effing vote). Yet I keep seeing the same pie chart over and over showing that recreational fisherman kill 4x what commercial fisherman kill. HOW CAN THAT BE if the recreational catch is 1/3 of what it was and the commercial catch has not changed? For that ratio to stay the same the commercial catch needs to be REDUCED by 2/3. SO WHY ISN'T IT ?

I bet over the past three years most peoples income has dropped 300% as well.....so put that in your pipe and smoke it! What are you going to spend money on in a recession? Gas for your boat? nope..gas for your car...you gonna go on vacation? nope you are going to pay your mortgage...didn't you call the kettle black by calling the beauracracy flawed, yet you want to believe a NMFS study? Isn't NMFS the one that has f'd up all the fisheries? Yeah exactly...you guys just go fishing...and you know what if you want to save a few fish than don't go...but I will still have fun catching, killing in some cases, and releasing bass as I have since the mid nineties with ease...

Massachusetts alone catches 4 million fishg a year..so tell how those numbers are factual..they are not...there have been so many cuts in the survey areas that half the people are surveying anyway...c'mon guys stop reaching let it die...its over you lost...the power grab is done..status quo is and will be the rule.

..didn't you call the kettle black by calling the beauracracy flawed, yet you want to believe a NMFS study? Isn't NMFS the one that has f'd up all the fisheries? Yeah exactly...you guys just go fishing...and you know what if you want to save a few fish than don't go...but I will still have fun catching, killing in some cases, and releasing bass as I have since the mid nineties with ease...

You're a classy guy.......but I think you are a bit confused. The NMFS IS THE SCIENCE, they don't set policy or manage fisheries. They are paid by the public to work for the public. The bureaucrats are they guys in DMF and ASMFC, who are paid by the public, but also by your commercial fishermen buddies to F' Up the fishery on your behalf. They do this easily by picking what science they want to believe and ignoring any science that does not fit their agenda. It works quite well as I'm sure you are aware.

Hope you find this helpful. :)

Yes you won this round. Feel proud your special interest group won. We are closer to the destruction of the striped bass. You guys dont care you will go on to the next species and then decimate it. Watch out there are more of us recs and when the rest of us wake up you may find your self out of business. Yes you won ignorance and greed often do but not over the long haul

Massachusetts alone catches 4 million fishg a year...

Link for 2009 please?

Yes you won this round. Feel proud your special interest group won.

Stripers Forever is a special interest group, too, and a pretty stupid amateurish one at that. They haven't done anybody any favors and striped bass would be far better off if they would just go away.

Please don't turn this thread into some rehash of that joke of a bill they threw out there.

i am a recreational fisherman as much if not more than the next guy...you have some elitest belief that fish shouldn't be sold...oh well that is your perrogative...the asmfc gives ma a specific state quota..the ma dmf then delegates where the fish go...if you have a problem with that than get off your ass and go down to the asmfc and complain there...to complain at a state level where everything is in compliance is nothing more than what u r full of...hot air.

knumbskull that was directed towards danny boy not you

While we are at it, SOMEBODY PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO US GUYS WHO ARE TOO STUPID TO FIGURE IT OUT ON OUR OWN

The recreational catch/release and catch/keep has decreased 3 fold since 2006, yet the commercial take is steady (only because an increase was turned down by 1 effing vote). Yet I keep seeing the same pie chart over and over showing that recreational fisherman kill 4x what commercial fisherman kill. HOW CAN THAT BE if the recreational catch is 1/3 of what it was and the commercial catch has not changed? For that ratio to stay the same the commercial catch needs to be REDUCED by 2/3. SO WHY ISN'T IT ?

I have no personal knowedge to back this up, but the reason that the catch numbers in mass commercial sector has not changed is that it is a poundage limit. What I am getting at is that I am certian that the time frame to land that allotted poundage took longer to achieve last year than it did in years past. for example 5 years ago, the season could have been open for 2 weeks to reach the limit, but last year it could have been open for a month or longer.

Originally Posted by numbskull
While we are at it, SOMEBODY PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO US GUYS WHO ARE TOO STUPID TO FIGURE IT OUT ON OUR OWN

The recreational catch/release and catch/keep has decreased 3 fold since 2006, yet the commercial take is steady (only because an increase was turned down by 1 effing vote). Yet I keep seeing the same pie chart over and over showing that recreational fisherman kill 4x what commercial fisherman kill. HOW CAN THAT BE if the recreational catch is 1/3 of what it was and the commercial catch has not changed? For that ratio to stay the same the commercial catch needs to be REDUCED by 2/3. SO WHY ISN'T IT ?


Less people fishing...is one good cause...

While we are at it, SOMEBODY PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO US GUYS WHO ARE TOO STUPID TO FIGURE IT OUT ON OUR OWN

The recreational catch/release and catch/keep has decreased 3 fold since 2006, yet the commercial take is steady (only because an increase was turned down by 1 effing vote). Yet I keep seeing the same pie chart over and over showing that recreational fisherman kill 4x what commercial fisherman kill. HOW CAN THAT BE if the recreational catch is 1/3 of what it was and the commercial catch has not changed? For that ratio to stay the same the commercial catch needs to be REDUCED by 2/3. SO WHY ISN'T IT ?

I don't know what chart you are looking at, but it has to be for a specific period and a specific geography. On the entire Atlantic coast the amount of fish killed by recreational fishermen has gone from about 90% some years ago to 80% today. Also the commercial take has not been steady, the commercials didn't get a quota increase until well into the 1990s striper boom years.

Good thing groups like the MSBA and their commercial friends support this policy-making method.

Let's ask the small CC tackle show owners how they feel about the health of Striped Bass and the inshore fishing.

again...not to sound redundant but it is all income related... lets ask Mr Obama what he is going to do about the economy....

I am usually on the water from 80-100 days; There is no where near the amount of boats on the water the last 3 years (economy, outrageous fuel, etc). Marina's, boat dealers, boat manufacturers, are all going under. I can sometimes cruise mid Narragansett Bay and not see another boat (a few sailboats, yes)..same with Watch Hill area. I don't think as many guys are fishing because of the above factors. Also, a lot of recreational catch is made up of charter boat landings...just take a look at Galilee docks in the summer ...a lot of boats tied up; and thats happenning up and down the Northeast Coast..
Also, MA commercial landing period last year (2009), lasted about 5 weeks (about normal), 2008 lasted into mid-September (much longer than usual).
As far as YOY, 2008 was low, 2009 came up a little (saw the chart)....but that always tracks up and down over the period that its been kept (I think it started in 1955)....it will probaly start heading up, if it trends as it has, over the last 50 or so years....

..with less recreational/charter fishing..of course....the recreational catch would go down....less participation in this pie(rec)...yea..gonna get less fish

Ahhhhhhh.........I see, recreational fishing pressure has dropped to 1/3 what it used to be (probably because NIB switched to golf), but we still kill 80% of the fish? The guys who are left are obviously getting much better (or using eels exclusively) and eating much more. They better be careful about Mercury poisoning. Probably why such huge tracts of the fishes historic range is empty of bass (except for a brief surge in the spring).

Silly me :smash:. I assumed recreational catch numbers, which reflect the average success of hundreds of thousands of average fishermen fishing everywhere along the fishes entire habitat using all sorts of techniques was a better indicator of species abundance, than the catch numbers of a few thousand guys targeting specific populations of fish in specific locations that they will travel to get at and drop dead pogies on top of because of the potential for profit.
My bad.

No but a lot of guys switched to small bft instead of bass...I have been on the race on saturday in july and been the only boat yet there are 200 guys tuna fishing...numbskull honestly let it die you are wrong..socio economics play a huge part in the number of people fishing, vacationing ect..not to mention when they do go they are targeting small bft more so than ur beloved bass, most people are honestly bored by them...they are not as enamored with the pajamas fish as you are...I can rebut you guys all day with out getting nasty you haven't made one comment that has not blamed the commercial...what you should be seeing is that the commercial fishery has held constant...economics plays a role there too you know! Doug

Per ASMFC the striper catch by Recreational fisherman showed a steady increase up until 2006 where there was a sudden drop off for 2007 and 2008. In 2006 recs caught and kept 2.75 million fish and caught and released 25.9 million fish. In 2007 the numbers were 2.3 million / 16.9 million. In 2008 the numbers were 2.2 million / 11.9 million.

You can see this data on the ASMFC web page under the 2009 report for stripers. They refer to this as a slight decrease.

If there are far less recs out fishing, then the ones who are out should be a lit more to catch ;)
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Link for 2009 please?

Linking to a specific page is difficult on the ASMFC site but this is where it's at.

Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (http://www.asmfc.org/)

Once you get to their home page click "managed spicies" on the right.

Then "stripe bass"

About half way down this page under reports is the 2009 report. Page 15 gives you the numbers

right it gives you the numbers alright...make sure you read all the numbers...not just the ones you want too...you will that there really has not been that much of drop in recreational take over the past 5 years....

This discussion is the reason why a saltwater registry is needed. There is not a firm understanding of recreational catches from year to year. Sure some are polled, but not everyone
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I love when George starts this stuff. We should all share his infectious passion for the species. The biggest problem I have with it is that I can never understand what he is trying to accomplish. More regs,gamefish status,slot limit?You can't hang your hat on certain science and disregard other science with good conscience.If I could choose one person to spearhead an effort to create the changes the bass need to remain a viable species, it would be Numby.We all know internet discussions are just that and accomplish squat.One issue doesn't need data to back up though,the bass are in trouble.

right it gives you the numbers alright...make sure you read all the numbers...not just the ones you want too...you will that there really has not been that much of drop in recreational take over the past 5 years....

That is true. It also may be supporting the most common observation made along the Northeast coast. Many people are reporting a shortage of small fish.

One thing I haven't heard of is any real decrease in the number of fisherman.

......recreation/charter fishing for striped bass is the major remover of striped bass from the population.............by far the greatest remover...let us not forget(actual harvest.......and many more from C & R discards)........

To the last we grapple with thee.
From hells heart we stab at thee.
For hates sake we spit our last breathes at thee.

Apologies to Mr Melville.

WTF ARE THESE MORONS THINKING?
.... "DMF OUT OF THE LOOP. These guys are a bunch of fools"
...."The bureaucrats are they guys in DMF and ASMFC, who are paid by the public, but also by your commercial fishermen buddies to F' Up the fishery on your behalf."
.... "Good thing groups like the MSBA and their commercial friends support this policy-making method"
...."You guys dont care you will go on to the next species and then decimate it

Never mind, I guess we all know the answer now.

WTF ARE THESE MORONS THINKING?
.... "DMF OUT OF THE LOOP. These guys are a bunch of fools"
...."The bureaucrats are they guys in DMF and ASMFC, who are paid by the public, but also by your commercial fishermen buddies to F' Up the fishery on your behalf."
.... "Good thing groups like the MSBA and their commercial friends support this policy-making method"
...."You guys dont care you will go on to the next species and then decimate it

Never mind, I guess we all know the answer now.

We're thinking that current regulation making methods are a failure and even in the face of declining numbers, the principle regulation body still won't take steps to protect the fish.

What are you morons thinking?

Is there any pending legislation other than the gamefish bill about changing the limit? I think the easiest and least intrusive thing to start some sort of effort would be to increase or change the limit or even just make it 1 fish per person. This isn't a drastic measure but it's doable.

Why does having a different train of thought make me a moron? If the fish were in trouble I would agree with you, but thee is no evidence anywhere that the bass are in trouble...sorry but it is true, not you or I have any say in it anyway...I have one question though...I want to know how old all of you nay sayers are?

"What are you morons thinking"
Sashamy...I believe the moron he's referring to in this case is me..oh wait..I see that's moron's plural...I guess you get a seat on the "little blue bus" too.
I'm thinking I haven't been fishing since November...so I thought I'd throw out some bait and see what/who bites. You know...fishing with bait...you just can't miss. Seriously though...for just a minute...you guys are entitled to your opinion; just entertaining myself on a boring day. ;-)

"What are you morons thinking"
Sashamy...I believe the moron he's referring to in this case is me..oh wait..I see that's moron's plural...I guess you get a seat on the "little blue bus" too.
I'm thinking I haven't been fishing since November...so I thought I'd throw out some bait and see what/who bites. You know...fishing with bait...you just can't miss. Seriously though...for just a minute...you guys are entitled to your opinion; just entertaining myself on a boring day. ;-)

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, and this is an issue that people are extremely passionate about. Not to mention we're all growing a bit stir crazy.

In the end, reliable research into the state of the striped bass population is difficult to come by - but it appears that current trends don't look good. However, there is no denying that tighter restrictions and decreased fish killed would benefit the population.

Why must we wait until the species is in a seriously threatened state before putting tighter regulations in place? The current regulatory body seems impotent, and makes decisions with a "reactive" as opposed to "pro-active" mentality.

It doesn't take a PhD to know that if less fish are killed, then the population will increase.

I want to know how old all of you nay sayers are?

60 and I've been involved in this since the fight for the 200 mile limit. I watched us mis-manage stock after stock. The ocean could, if given the opportunity, supply far more fish and have a much greater economic value then it presently does if we would just quit regulating it with a short term view. But we just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again.

How can anyone put any trust in ASMFC when they make statements like the one below on weakfish:

"The reduction in harvest has resulted from a drastic decline in weakfish biomass since 1996. Over the last decade, while fishing mortality has been modest and stable, natural mortality (deaths due to predation, starvation, and other natural causes) has increased to levels previously unseen. The result is a weakfish stock not subject to overfishing, but which is, nonetheless, depleted."

I would think that once a stock has reached the level of being "depleted", any fishing would be overfishing. Yet ASMFC continues to allow both recreational and commercial fishing for weakfish. Sure fishing may not have caused the stock to reach this level but stopping fishing is the one quick tool we have to protect the fish while we try to resolve the base issue.

"60 and I've been involved in this since the fight for the 200 mile limit"
I call BS on this...I know for a FACT that from 58 on up you can't remember sh#t!!!

I dont know where you get your information on the state of bass on the east coast but things are bad. Up and down the coast anglers can see the difference in their catches. There is just not the same amount of small bass up to twenty eight inches that there was say four years ago. Where do you think that the big bass that the recs commercials commercials covet . Look at what some of the big names are saying. I am paraphrasing but I recently saw Frank Dagnault and Cooper Gilkes write that they think the bass are in trouble. Does anyone remember the early eighties. I surffished every day Sept through Oct and got two bass (released). Why cant we act before the situation becomes a disaster no fish for the comms or recs. We must reduce the catch work on the polution in the Chesapeake and reduce the menhaden catch.

Let's see...take a shot at MSBA for opposing a bill that would put the future of Striped Bass regulations into the hands of the uber responsible MA State Legislature...Are You Kidding Me???

In addition, to infer that MSBA has no concerns about S-B may be the most ignorant statement......no, it's a straight up lie.

Just to get the record a bit closer to reality...MSBA has many concerns and expressed some of them at the recent State House hearing. I guess you didn't know because you didn't listen...wait a minute...I didn't see you there..where were you sitting? I didn't think so?

No wonder your "fix the problems with Striped Bass by increasing mortality" legislation failed. FYI...the ill prepared stuttering fools that took your money (I assume you support them financially) couldn't even answer basic quesitons on the logistics or science behind the bill. It seems you know more about it than they did.

FYI...I thing you are a pretty smart guy so it shouldn;t suprise you that MSBA happens to also be aware of how fisheries management laws are applied. We choose to take actions that at least has a resonable chance to result in actual changes to the management plan rather than biitch and whiine on the internet.

I tell you what...if you (whomever you might be) want to step up and put some good old fashioned Intestinal Fortitude (read--balls) behind your childish keyboard ranting, meet me in Alexandria VA at the ASMFC Winter meetings.

I promise to introduce you to people who will listen and talk to you about your ideas on fisheries management. All you have to do is show up and act like an adult.

If you meet me on Monday Feb 1st we will try to create improvements in the Atlantic Herring magnagement plan. If you can only come for one day then meet me on Tuesday for the Striped Bass meetings. We also have Dogfish and some others tuff that day as well. If you hang out until Wednesday I will gladly take you with me and another fisherman to visit Capital Hill in DC to attend some meetings with congressional staffers about a plan to improve River Herring.

I assume you understand forage is a real issue with Striped Bass? I noticed the SF web site does not mantion a plan to fix the forage base?

FYI...Us whack jobs over at MSBA are working on one and have been for a while now. I guess you think the MA legislature will fix it. Speaking of forage, If you stay until Thursday we will attend the Shad & River Herring managment meetings and that might be some real fun. There is a presentation about bycatch and you might just have something real to get pissed about if you sack up and show up.

I guess you see my point. You can take a shot at MSBA but we are the ONLY group from New England that will be there for the whole week...besdies Ma DMF. I agree that ASMFC, DMF and in some cases NMFS all are lacking and could be seriously improved. The problem is that the only way in American Society to get something done is to show up and participate..soooooooo

In order to save us both some time...now is when you list your many excuses about why you don't show up, your list of personal repsonsibilities, how no one listens, how blah blah blah blah!!!!

My response will then be to ask you a queston. Since you are a wicked smaht human being that has much pasison for S-B you must support an organization that does send a representative....don't you? Somewhere between your CusomeRod and your plug collection you must throw a couple bucks at a group that actually tries to carry your opinion. Tell me who that is so that I can introduce myself and see if I can help them express your concerns as I have not heard them expressed in at least the last year.

God I hate internet Heroes

well said

I keep wondering where all this "stripers are doomed" thinking is coming from. Yes, there may be less bass around then there was maybe a few years ago; more people fishing for them is a reason why...(headboats now even chase them...look at Montauk, Block, the Race). Does anybody actually go to the ASMFC site and read the wealth of scientific data on the species or read TITLE 16 - CONSERVATION CHAPTER 71A - ATLANTIC STRIPED BASS CONSERVATION ACT (1983). There are many triggers in the legislation to prevent what happened in the 70's to happen again. Threshholds have been created to prevent overharvesting by ALL SECTORS. During the 70's, none of this was available (I know-I participated in mtgs, forums, etc. to right the fishery). I see as many small fish today, as I did a few years ago (I am on the water just about everyday from April-October)...Narragansett Bay is loaded with mid-size fish when the pogies come full force in June; In May there is small fish all over the Bay feeding on bay anchovies.
As far as other people not seeing that many fish, look to your bait situation. Thats why places like Block Island (sand eels), Stellwagon (herring,whiting , mackeral), Eastern LI Sound (scup) have a lot of fish. Tuna guys are seeing them everywhere outside; a friend of mine was catching large bass while chunking for tuna at the Mudhole (Block I)...
Maybe its the winter-we all need to start fishing.....

Who are you talking to here, Patrick?

I've said nothing about the MSBA and I think the recent bill was a dumbass piece of legislation that has now done more to hurt than help striped bass conservation (even though I would have been happy if it had passed).

I keep wondering where all this "stripers are doomed" thinking is coming from. Yes, there may be less bass around then there was maybe a few years ago; more people fishing for them is a reason why... .

Now jmac, you seem like a reasonable guy so maybe you can help me (particularly since I can never find the actual data I want on the ASMFC site).

Lets just talk recreational catch.

Landings in poundage are roughly steady.
Landings in numbers of fish is down 2/3.
More people are fishing per your estimate (on which I agree)
Natural mortality is up (Mycobacteria/seals etc)
Reproductive success is down.
Inshore population is down (for whatever reason).

SO if recs are only catching 1/3 the fish they used to (as the CCT reporter says....I can't find his source but it fits with what I see), but poundage is steady, those fish have to be bigger....a lot bigger. That means 1 or 2 good year classes are getting hammered and will keep getting hammered if nothing changes.

SO, as those fish get wiped out and don't get a chance to create some more good year classes my question to you is......."What size fish do you expect to be catching 10 years from now and how many will there be?" Please remember, it takes a long time to make a 40lber and it takes ALOT of fish to get one if you kill 1/3 of the year class every year along the way.

If you can show me the answer to that question on the ASMFC site, I would be much comforted. Thanks.

........sand fleas and rock hoppers............get to the fish...small fish too....take heed from Peter Benchley......"got to get a bigger boat"-chief Brody-to-Capt Quint...JAWS.......the fish are with the bait..........sometimes the fish won't come to you............aaah.yup....please excuse me I got to eat my wild striped bass fillet...........baked potato...four greens salad with dried sweeten cranberries and Gonzo cheese with Newmans Cran/walnut vinaigrette............................yum......
...and remember, multiple use of the striped bass resource is the only fair way to utilize this natural resource.......

Patrick, If you took anything I said as an attack on MSBA it was not my intent. I may disagree with their position on this issue but I respect the club.

What I don't understand is how you are so willing to attack people here for expressing their opinion, after all this is a discussion board. The other point is in reading the minutes from the ASMFC striper board I see the same arguements being presented at the board as we are having here. Sure there are some extreme comments made but there are also some very good ones. If nothing else it gets people thinking about it.

Maybe it will get more people to take the time to read the ASMFC info and to respond to request for public input.

Screw this, I'm going to start a rain dance come March
Chesapeake Bay Journal: Whether a fish has a hot spawning season may depend on weather - October 2004 (http://www.bayjournal.com/article.cfm?article=2381)

Now jmac, you seem like a reasonable guy so maybe you can help me (particularly since I can never find the actual data I want on the ASMFC site).

Lets just talk recreational catch.

Landings in poundage are roughly steady.
Landings in numbers of fish is down 2/3.
More people are fishing per your estimate (on which I agree)
Natural mortality is up (Mycobacteria/seals etc)
Reproductive success is down.
Inshore population is down (for whatever reason).

SO if recs are only catching 1/3 the fish they used to (as the CCT reporter says....I can't find his source but it fits with what I see), but poundage is steady, those fish have to be bigger....a lot bigger. That means 1 or 2 good year classes are getting hammered and will keep getting hammered if nothing changes.

SO, as those fish get wiped out and don't get a chance to create some more good year classes my question to you is......."What size fish do you expect to be catching 10 years from now and how many will there be?" Please remember, it takes a long time to make a 40lber and it takes ALOT of fish to get one if you kill 1/3 of the year class every year along the way.

If you can show me the answer to that question on the ASMFC site, I would be much comforted. Thanks.


Very good. Well put. I realize you are speaking to rec catches. I would like to add I believe that SB by catch by trawlers is completely over looked on purpose by the ASMFC and you may not agree with this but there has been a a greater ancedotal catch of SB in cod country. Simply put the big bass are going offshore. I saw a video of a haulback on a legal foreign trawler here... bass by catch was ugly

I think I am in agreement with you that the ASFMC is que$tionable

From the ASMFC roundtable discussion on striped bass management from 1999. Some comments from Rip Cunningham......that still ring very true and are relevant to this discussion .

"4-5.From the recreational point-of-view there is distrust. ............... Public input is not taken into
account. There seems to be elitism among managers who feel they know the answers of how
to deal with the stock and they don’t need public input. When recreational fishermen don’t
agree with decisions they think they just need to call ASMFC and ask for change. In reality,
recreational fishermen can make their greatest impact at the state level. They don’t realize
that it is a coastwide effort and all states work to establish a compromise, so not all decisions
are based strictly on science. Allocation is not just science. .......
.........ASMFC needs to establish methods to better isolate science from management, and it may
also be better to have others, besides the State directors, represent States interests on the
Management Boards. "

Right, so in your opinion we should have a fisherman from each state go and make the rules based upon the fact that they had a sucky/great year fishing? They have advisory panels that any one of you guys can apply to get on...like Patrick said stop whining..if you think there is a problem show up and say something...Doug

State DMF directors have a well documented history of ignoring input from many sources to advance their own (or worse) philosophy and agenda. I have a hard time recalling any occasion where Mr Diodati has been in the forefront favoring conservation over continued exploitation (consequences be damned) of striped bass. From what little I've read, the situation to the south is even worse.

I realize, Sashamy, that this setup works for you, but does it dawn on you that environmental organizations such as EDF and Pew find it is not working for them? And they, my tunnel visioned friend, are very well positioned to do something about it.

Both commercial and recreational groups SHOULD have a common interest in restoring striped bass populations to real world prior abundance and age group balance (not paper numbers in lbs of fish all from two year classes supposedly suddenly abandoning their natural niche en masse). That we DON'T is probably going to hurt us all...and soon.

We'll see who is whining then. :hs:

I have tried to correspond to Mr. Diodati a dozen times over the last few years as a concerned citizen.
Never even a return note, e -mail or acknowledgement.
I guess because they don't have a vested interest in me,(us ) they don't care.
Makes it very easy to be an angry,mistrustful,unrepresented, peon.
Time for an insurrection, it will be fun.:wall: