Why is it that only a low 60% of Americans (working age adults) pay taxes and 40% don't? Why do 60% of Americans pay the lion's share of the nut?

"You've got a larger and larger share of people paying less and less for the services provided by the federal government," says Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center. "The concern is that the majority can say, 'Let's have more benefits, spend more,' if they're not paying for it. It's 'free.' That's not a good thing to have."

By historic standards, today's situation is an aberration. Between 1950 and 1990, the number of owe-no-money federal tax returns averaged 21 percent, dipping to 18 percent in 1986, according to Tax Foundation data. In the 1990s, the owe-no-money percentage hovered around 25 percent of taxpayers. From: The Income Tax System is Broken - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/15/politics/otherpeoplesmoney/main4945874.shtml)

Data: Tax Units with Zero or Negative Tax Liability, 2009-2019 (http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbers/displayatab.cfm?Docid=2276&DocTypeID=7)

Why do I bust my a$$ in two jobs trying to make things better for my family and I have to pay to make someone elses' life better too? I have no problem with some of my tax dollars going to help others but where is the balance? We have all of these programs, we get more and more programs, and get more and more taxes and fees? Other than death, when or how does it end? When did we stop being a responsible country?

I'm just in a really pi$$y mood because after doing two shows and a couple server installs next month I will finally have enough time to do my taxes. Time to start another thread.

Don't forget all those people on Welfare and other forms of government assistance that you are also supporting since they are paid for by YOUR tax $.

and all the retired politico's with their kiss in the mail

Don't forget all those people on Welfare and other forms of government assistance that you are also supporting since they are paid for by YOUR tax $.

I don't mind some of my tax dollars helping people when they are down bu I have a problem with those hat perpetually keep themselves down. I'd much rather be putting money to the kids "C" fund than to pay for people abusing services or shirking responsibility.

and all the retired politico's with their kiss in the mail


Their pension and health benefits are certainly taken care of...

I guess we've revised the 80/20 rule:rotf2:...I'm pretty sure that someone once warned that the Republic would collapse when we reached a point where the number of folks not paying into the system but able to vote themselves increased benefits from the system exceeded the number actually supporting the our system.... :uhuh:

you trade your SKILLS for a service rendered
or you sell a product for X amount of dollars

but when the Government steps in and takes half of your
earnings

and then doesn't deliver the services they said they would provide
and are threatening to take even more

people eventually say......hey ya know what..... F-them
THIS is no longer an "equitable trade" anymore

so i believe, you have to L(o)(o)k at it that way ALSO

not strictly from the "i'm supporting the non tax payers"
ANGLE.

the TAX dollars...................

are not solely staying in AMERICA....

just helping Americans or the American infrastructure

they are being given away to PAKISTAN
and many other non American countries
and fighting wars that the "government"
deems necessary ....

just imagine how wonderful things would be in
America if all those tax dollars were only spent
on AMERICANS and AMERICA

the TAX dollars...................

are not solely staying in AMERICA....

just helping Americans or the American infrastructure

they are being given away to PAKISTAN
and many other non American countries
and fighting wars that the "government"
deems necessary ....

just imagine how wonderful things would be in
America if all those tax dollars were only spent
on AMERICANS and AMERICA


Correct, but there is a catch. If US money is not spent overseas in many cases it may cost more American blood & treasure in the long run. This is not to say the Guv has been right more often than not but they try.

What concerns (pisses) me is we spend ungodly amounts domestically and some of these programs may collapse in the future. Hell our economy and way of life has the potential to collapse. We're may be close to the tipping point. A nation in decline.

But as a Nation in Decline

we have to move back closer to Isolationism

because it is as out of *control now ..............*out of balance
as is

plover preservation

About 15% are either unemployed or have given up and are living under a bridge. The under-employed constitute close to another 10%, those working part time or those settling for jobs for which they are grossly over-qualified.
My accountant told me that a lot of his customers have simply stopped filing because they don't have the money to pay.

I prepare taxes and there has been a big drop in income the last 2 years. A smentioned above unemployement and people taking any job just for a little $$ are a big reason, but I also think the undergound economy has grown.

Unreported Bartering Income and underreporting of Cash Income decrease one's taxes as well. Cash is always preferred over check and CC.

About 15% are either unemployed or have given up and are living under a bridge. The under-employed constitute close to another 10%, those working part time or those settling for jobs for which they are grossly over-qualified.
My accountant told me that a lot of his customers have simply stopped filing because they don't have the money to pay.

exactly Joe, not only are some paying...and many not paying anything(some even getting a nice check through the EITC)...but a lot of the middle can no longer afford to pay...not only has govt. spending gone way up but tax revenues have dropped as well...

I don't know how a wage earner in the middle can avoid paying. Which is why they don't typically audit wage earners - not much opportunity to cheat.

you just said.... "My accountant told me that a lot of his customers have simply stopped filing because they don't have the money to pay."

I assumed you meant... pay their taxes...or did you mean they aren't filing because they don't have the money to pay the accountant?

sole-owner and small business proprietors, independent contractors(sales people, realtors etc.), anyone paying quarterlies and property tax...these people are not all high earners and not counted in the unemployment stats when business dries up ....but they are people that keep the money moving through the system through their activity.....falling behind....penalties and interest piling up...just trying to keep the lights on...I know a bunch of them...

I'm quite sure there are more than a few who are so broke they don't have the money to pay the accountant/tax preparer. But what I meant was that people who have federal withholding and get paid a wage (not a salary and bonus) typically can't stop paying their taxes because they have no control over it. A wage earner can't stop paying their fed withholding if their employer is not in on it.

People like these are not filing at all:
Business owners who went belly-up but owe sales/use and income taxes for the year but are now broke and can't pay.

People who made some money during the course of the year that they typically would pay at tax time, but whose situation changed during the course of the year and they spent the money they typically would save for paying their taxes.

Unemployed people who have raided their 401K's and annuities for lump-sum payments to stay in their homes and did not have the taxes withheld and who now find themselves with a whopping tax bill.

they are getting paid
taxes are being withdrawn
but they will never file

there are 4.8 million of them

I don't see how our economy in its present state will lift enough people to the point where they will ever have a federal tax liability.
We've switched from a manufacturing economy to a service/knowledge economy where opportunity for people without higher education is very low. With 72% of our workforce with less than bachelors degree, it does not point to much improvement in the short-mid term. Most of our workforce is only qualified for jobs can be done abroad much cheaper.

Love this one in MA also

Runaway health costs are rocking municipal budgets - The Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2010/02/28/runaway_health_costs_are_rocking_municipal_budgets/?p1=Well_MostPop_Emailed2)

Love this one in MA also

Runaway health costs are rocking municipal budgets - The Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2010/02/28/runaway_health_costs_are_rocking_municipal_budgets/?p1=Well_MostPop_Emailed2)
unsustainable

unsustainable

Happens all the time in every state

they are getting paid
taxes are being withdrawn
but they will never file

there are 4.8 million of them

IRS: $1.3 billion still unclaimed for '06, and deadline looms

(CNN) -- Some people who didn't file a federal tax return for 2006 have more than 1 billion reasons to reconsider, but they need to do it fast, according to the Internal Revenue Service.

The IRS says it has more than $1.3 billion in refunds for 1.4 million people who didn't file a 2006 return. But to collect the cash, they will have to file for that year by April 15.

Does the states give a clue as to who has not filed?
The IRS estimates the median unclaimed refund for 2006 nonfilers is $604. California is the state with the most nonfilers who qualify for refunds from that year (159,700), with Texas (109,600) and Florida (101,700) right behind.

thats like calling the "meegra" on yerself....
yo....Uncle Sam.... we need to go back to Mexico or Brazil
cuz were having a Big wedding there. :)

the IRS is as dillusional as Cheney

by the way...i never planned on Uncle SAM paying me a Single Dime of
social security benefits... and have planned accordingly...

i truly believe they'll come up with some friggan excuse in
2017......mark my words...

About 47 percent will pay no federal income taxes at all for 2009. Either their incomes were too low, or they qualified for enough credits, deductions and exemptions to eliminate their liability.

The result is a tax system that exempts almost half the country from paying for programs that benefit everyone, including national defense, public safety, infrastructure and education. It is a system in which the top 10 percent of earners -- households making an average of $366,400 in 2006 -- paid about 73 percent of the income taxes collected by the federal government.

The bottom 40 percent, on average, make a profit from the federal income tax, meaning they get more money in tax credits than they would otherwise owe in taxes. For those people, the government sends them a payment.

Here's how they did it, according to Deloitte Tax:

The family was entitled to a standard deduction of $11,400 and four personal exemptions of $3,650 apiece, leaving a taxable income of $24,000. The federal income tax on $24,000 is $2,769.

With two children younger than 17, the family qualified for two $1,000 child tax credits. Its Making Work Pay credit was $800 because the parents were married filing jointly.

The $2,800 in credits exceeds the $2,769 in taxes, so the family makes a $31 profit from the federal income tax. That ought to take the sting out of April 15.

That's according to projections by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research organization.

About 47 percent will pay no federal income taxes at all for 2009. Either their incomes were too low, or they qualified for enough credits, deductions and exemptions to eliminate their liability.
Which is actually 2% LESS than the last year under a different president. It looks like the recession and government incentives to support the lower wage earners have influenced the numbers a lot.

The interesting thing is to look at taxes paid relative to income earned. While the wealthy do pay slightly more it's more flat than one might think.

Also, these numbers are usually reflecting marginal Federal rates only. The lower wage earners do pay taxes, but are able to lower their burden mostly on the Federal portion.



-spence

It's interesting that you brought this up. I just left Sweetwater's house and were *literally* just discussing this issue. I'd go into it but the conversation lasted a handful of beers and a couple cigars.

To sum up both of our opinions....:fury::fury::fury::wall::wall::wall:

Funny, I never see anyone in practice who gets credits complain like everyone above.That includes people with low incomes to high incomes.

I also don't know of anyone who returned the Bush or Obama handouts of 2009 or previous years.

It's easy to bitch on an internet board, but in real life most people are paying taxes. A typical couple around 45- 50 earning $100k - $150k a year with a house and 2 kids in college is not rich IMO, and more likely struggling right now and should get some relief.

Greedy owners and Greedy unions drove away the jobs to China.They are not returning in our lifetime.

Focus on property taxes, sales taxes, car taxes those are rising much faster than income taxes.

With the slew of taxes levied on us on a daily/weekly/yearly basis, we are being taxes literally for just being alive, breathing air and taking up space on this planet. :fury::wall:

The interesting thing is to look at taxes paid relative to income earned. While the wealthy do pay slightly more it's more flat than one might think.



-spence

The top 10% of earners, paid 73 % of income taxes collected.

That's flat like Pamala Anderson

The top 10% of earners, paid 73 % of income taxes collected.

That's flat like Pamala Anderson

only suckers work and pay taxes in America...:uhuh:

Flat tax. Everyone pays the same percentage, say 10 to 15%. Eliminate all other taxes.

Flat tax. Everyone pays the same percentage, say 10 to 15%. Eliminate all other taxes.

too many lawyers would be out of business

Flat tax. Everyone pays the same percentage, say 10 to 15%. Eliminate all other taxes.

Yes to the flat tax! Key is eliminating ALL deductions and putting ALL income into a single category (salary, capital gains L/S, interest/dividends, etc), the country could probably make out collecting higher taxes only charging 5-10%!

The top 10% of earners, paid 73 % of income taxes collected.

That's flat like Pamala Anderson

That's not the point...

at all.

You did take high school math right? Oh yea, didn't you go to prep school??? :devil2:

-spence

Do the top 10% earn more than 73% of the total wealth?

I'm just asking..

Flat tax = less money to states, what's to stop them from jacking up state taxes?

Do the top 10% earn more than 73% of the total wealth? 44%

I'm just asking..

Flat tax = less money to states, what's to stop them from jacking up state taxes?
what's to stop any of them from jacking up taxes...didn't you hear Volker the other day?....higher taxes on everything, on energy through Cap and Tax and a VAT coming soon!

As stated, VAT is coming to every finished product very soon

Gleaned from wherever:

About 45 percent of households will owe no federal income tax in 2010, according to our estimates. Half of them earn too little, while the other half -- mostly middle- and lower-income households -- will take advantage of tax credits such as the earned income credit, the child and child-care credits, the American Opportunity and Lifetime Learning credits, which help pay for college, and the saver's credit, which subsidizes retirement saving.
But even citizens who pay no income tax still pay other kinds of taxes. They pay Social Security and Medicare taxes when they work, sales taxes when they buy things and property taxes on their homes. Drivers pay gasoline taxes, and smokers and drinkers pay excise taxes on tobacco and alcohol. According to our research, more than 75 percent of us will pay at least some form of federal tax in 2010.
Those who pay no federal taxes are mostly the low-income elderly or very poor families with children. Even about half of those with annual incomes under $10,000 pay some federal tax, most often payroll taxes on wages.
And yes, the richest Americans pay taxes, too. Though a tiny minority manage to avoid federal income tax through elaborate tax planning, 99.7 percent of those with annual incomes above $1 million will pay federal taxes this year, surrendering 27 percent of their earnings to the government. The average American taxpayer pays 18 percent.

Gleaned from wherever:

But even citizens who pay no income tax still pay other kinds of taxes. .


and the people who actually pay all of the federal taxes pay those "other taxes" as well and are far less likely to be recieving government assistance and various freebies...isn't this the illegal alien argument that the left uses?..."well...they pay other taxes like sales tax and stuff.. ya know"....good God! the social security"tax" is supposed to be for their social security, not a tax...medicare...same thing...a downpayment on a future entitlement....where exactly did you glean this from?...I'd really love to know :uhuh: we're right at the tipping point...more people voting themselves benefits out of other peoples wallets than people that believe it's their responsibility to take care of their own wallet and a whole lot of enablers....YIKES!

Here it comes!!!

VAT bend over U.S. eyes sales tax - BostonHerald.com (http://bostonherald.com/business/general/view.bg?articleid=1245809&position=0)

Gleaned from wherever:

About 45 percent of households will owe no federal income tax in 2010, according to our estimates. Half of them earn too little, while the other half -- mostly middle- and lower-income households -- will take advantage of tax credits such as the earned income credit, the child and child-care credits, the American Opportunity and Lifetime Learning credits, which help pay for college, and the saver's credit, which subsidizes retirement saving.
But even citizens who pay no income tax still pay other kinds of taxes. They pay Social Security and Medicare taxes when they work, sales taxes when they buy things and property taxes on their homes. Drivers pay gasoline taxes, and smokers and drinkers pay excise taxes on tobacco and alcohol. According to our research, more than 75 percent of us will pay at least some form of federal tax in 2010.
Those who pay no federal taxes are mostly the low-income elderly or very poor families with children. Even about half of those with annual incomes under $10,000 pay some federal tax, most often payroll taxes on wages.
And yes, the richest Americans pay taxes, too. Though a tiny minority manage to avoid federal income tax through elaborate tax planning, 99.7 percent of those with annual incomes above $1 million will pay federal taxes this year, surrendering 27 percent of their earnings to the government. The average American taxpayer pays 18 percent.


This is how it really is. People without experience practing as tax professionals just give biased opinions. Good post!

Here it comes!!!

VAT bend over U.S. eyes sales tax - BostonHerald.com (http://bostonherald.com/business/general/view.bg?articleid=1245809&position=0)

Yesterday, the Congressional Budget Office acknowledged it’s studying a value-added tax, also known as VAT, at the request of unidentified congressional staffers. No dollar amounts were mentioned.

The congressional staffers will have to be identified eventually, and then they will be voted out of office.

“The tax code remains too long, too complicated and too chock full of wasteful subsidies and giveaways that don’t make economic sense,” Kerry said in a statement.

“A big reform is overdue. We should simplify. You should look at and consider everything that would take some of the burden off of working people. We should definitely debate alternatives like the VAT, but the test of any idea should be fairness, progressivity and economic growth." -John Kerry

4 more years of dealing with the idiot. I just went to John Kerry's official website to try and find what he's done for Massachusetts lately... can't find anything.

This is how it really is. People without experience practing as tax professionals just give biased opinions. Good post!

you are ignoring the handout that is the EITC both state and federally, not only are many not paying any federal income tax, but many are enjoying free money courtesy of the US taxpayer...

The United States federal Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC or EIC) is a refundable tax credit; it is means tested, and designed to encourage low-income workers and offset the burden of U.S. payroll taxes. For tax year 2009, a claimant with one qualifying child can receive a maximum credit of $3,043. A claimant with two qualifying children can receive a maximum credit of $5,028. The credit is expanded for tax year 2009 and 2010. For claimants with three or more qualifying children, the maximum credit is $5,657. Grandparents, aunts, uncles, and siblings can also claim a child as their qualifying child provided they shared residence with the child for more than six months of the tax year. However, in tie-breaker situations in which more than one filer claims the same child, priority will be given to the parent. A foster child also counts provided the child has been officially placed by an agency or court. There is a much more modest EIC for persons and couples without children that reaches a maximum of $457.[1]

Since the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) became part of the income tax code in 1975, it has quietly become the largest cash transfer program in the United States. At a cost of more than $44 billion per year, EITC spending dwarfs that of the traditional welfare program—Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF)—and nd food stamps combined. More than 23 million households currently receive the credit.

“From 1985 to 2006, EITC payments grew from $2.1 billion to $44.4 billion, or by an eye-popping 2,014 percent,”. “Total federal income tax revenues rose by 217 percent over that same period. Similarly, the number of returns claiming the EITC rose from 6.4 million to 23 million—an increase of 255 percent—over a perperiod when the total number of federal income tax returns increased by 36 percent.

“Bottom line: Immigrants accounted for about 13 percent of the U.S. population in 2008 but receive an estimated 26 percent of EITC benefits—about $12 billion.”

The most distressing aspect of EITC stems from unlawful immigrants tapping into the program on a massive scale. For example, in Greeley, Colorado this year, district attorney Buck Young raided a tax filing agency to find over 1,000 fraudulent returns by unlawful workers. While they paid little or nothing in taxes, they received hundreds of thousands in bogus returns. That same scam multiplies all over the country.

“Tax relief" goes to people who never paid a cent in taxes, and may have already defrauded the government of huge sums each year. "EITC scams are common, well-organized, and massive," Rubenstein writes in the report. EITC ranks second out of 57 government programs in fraudulent payments.

“But enthusiasm for the credit has blinded policy makers to its problems. The EITC program is dominated by fraud. Year after year about one-third of all EITC returns are based on illegal multiple returns, phony Social Security numbers, or claims of non-existent children or spouses. A disproportionate share of illegal alien households receives the benefit.

“Washington’s love affair with the EITC has allowed the minimum wage to decline in real value. Native workers have suffered as a result. So have labor unions. In effect, the EITC subsidizes employers who hire low-wage immigrants and reject equally qualified natives. No one should be surprised; therefore, that Wal-mart, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, and most liberal activist groups are major EITC supporters.

“For most poor families, the tax credit check is the largest single sum of money they will receive during the year. Most receive it after filing income taxes. But some need the money immediately, and they can get it—for a price. A niche financial sector thrives by leending EITC recipients immediate cash in return for a hefty chunk of their credit check. The cost to the poor of these so-called Refund Anticipation Loans (RALs) has been estimated at 6 percent of the entire EITC program.

“Widespread availability of high-interest RALs made poor borrowers easy marks for sub-prime mortgage hucksters. The resulting defaults have pushed the entire economy to the brink of collapse. While the sub-prime story is well known, few are aware of the EITC’s role in introducing the poor to the culture of debt.”

Has the EITC lived up to its hype? In answering this, consider the following:

The EITC originated as an anti-poverty program; the number of the returns claiming EITC benefits rose 25 times faster than the poverty population over the past two decades.

EITC benefits rise sharply with parenthood; poverty rates for families with children have risen faster than those for childless families since the credit was created.

The EITC is the most illegal-immigrant friendly of poverty programs; illegal immigrants constitute a far larger share of the poverty population now.

Implication: The EITC is a textbook case of unintended consequences. Our economic meltdown may be among them.

“The current federal EITC provides large benefits to families with children, mostly single mothers, and minimal benefits to singles, even though declining wages have affected all low-income workers. These disparities create disincentives to work in the formal labor market and for poor men and women to marry, cohabitate, and co-parent,” said Rubenstein. “President Obama’s stimulus package increased EITC payments by $600 for poor families with three or more children, while leaving the program’s perverse disincentives intact. This will merely exacerbate the credit’s bias against work and marriage.”

You forgot the title to your c/p

FRAUD & ABUSE: EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT BY UNLAWFUL IMMIGRANTS

:rotf2:

You forgot the title to your c/p

FRAUD & ABUSE: EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT BY UNLAWFUL IMMIGRANTS

:rotf2:

actually, this concerns the EITC as a whole for the most part and is from two sources the first defining it and then a littany of reasons that it is problematic......but if you find fraud and abuse of taxpayers dollars on a large scale by illegal aliens and others not paying any federal income tax yet recieving checks each spring amusing, .....I....don't know what to say....

I could see the VAT in our future but it would be a way off.

As bad as the tax code is, it's not going to be easy to change.

-spence

I could see the VAT in our future but it would be a way off.

As bad as the tax code is, it's not going to be easy to change.

-spence

they're not going to change the existing tax code they are going to add VAT on top of itl

they're not going to change the existing tax code they are going to add VAT on top of itl
No, the VAT would be a replacement as part of a restructured tax code.

-spence

In theory I support this and think it makes sense on a lot of levels. The problem is they will never drop the income tax. So as long as that is around I oppose any and all other taxes.

I like a single 17% flat tax with no deductions (no mortgage deduction no nothing) OR I would support a big sales tax on goods and services BUT they have to drop the income tax. and cap gains taxes.

I support them for several reasons

1) it is much simpler and does away with deductions and people twisting the reality to get deductions.

2) AMT - is a joke While they claim they don't raise taxes this is a stealthy way they get more money from you without "raising " taxes Our tax system is way too complex.

3) Everyone pays based on what they consume. Even illegals and drug dealers when they buy their speed boats, fancy cars and guns. We will see more revenue . You buy something you pay.

4) There is no filing

5) Most libs don't like it because right not now the "poor" don't pay much in the way of taxes and now they would have to pay something (although since they are are poor they don't consume much so they would not pay much) Also this could be progressiveized with some sort of standard deduction.

6) I like it because they could do away with the cap gains tax as well. This would spur investment and could grow us out of the giant hole we are in.


The problem with Libs is that while they are "pro jobs" they are anti-business and see profit and capitalism as a sin. They love taxes, they like playing robin hood and growing government.

You want good jobs... create incentives for the wealthy to invest in creating NEW business...let them (the wealthy) keep the $ they make by taking risks with their capital. That's it.