Last US sardine cans being packed in Maine - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100414/ap_on_bi_ge/us_so_long_sardines)


How's that "Hope and change" working for ya?

Last US sardine cans being packed in Maine - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100414/ap_on_bi_ge/us_so_long_sardines)

How's that "Hope and change" working for ya?

From the article, it seems like this is a process that started a long time ago. Demand has steadily been decreasing. "Hope and change" had nothing to do with it. American Capitalism was the demise of the industry. Sardines are nasty anyway.

"Even without the quota cuts, the plant was under pressure from shrinking consumer demand, increased foreign competition — primarily from China and Thailand — and thin margins and low prices on the retail market."

"Sardine consumption began falling decades ago, he said, after canned tuna came on the market and Americans' tastes changed. The closing of the last U.S. cannery is the end of an era, he said."

"We recognize the American public turns their noses up at sardines," Sutton said. "It may be a challenge and it may be insurmountable, but our motto is 'It's not your grandfather's sardine.'"

I don't think capitalism had much to do with the demise. Changing tastes and over seas comp. were the causes. I just could not resist the Hope and change jab...more jobs lost in a region that really can't afford it. I bet the packing plants in china and taiwan stay in business...How do they do it???health care, minium wage, retirement...hmmm)

Reasons and politics aside, there is nothing like a sardine and onion sandwich on rye toast when you are offshore fishing.:)

I love sardines..:drool:...straight up or on a cracker

Reasons and politics aside, there is nothing like a sardine and onion sandwich on rye toast when you are offshore fishing.:)[/QUOTE]


Talk about an acquired taste.
How much scope do you gotta chase that bad boy down with ?

I think I'll open a can right now. One of the best things you can eat. I'm going to Maine next week to film one of the healthiest herring runs on the east coast. The runs up there are improving while our runs are not doing well at all.

I think I'll open a can right now. One of the best things you can eat. I'm going to Maine next week to film one of the healthiest herring runs on the east coast. The runs up there are improving while our runs are not doing well at all.


Thats because the mainers V-notch the females

Reasons and politics aside, there is nothing like a sardine and onion sandwich on rye toast when you are offshore fishing.:)

I tried once... couldn't even take a bite. Power to you guys that eat them right out of the can.

When I was in the Navy we always had some smart ass sailor that would microwave sardines and smell up half the ship during the midwatch. I couldn't get by the odor to try them.

DZ

When I was in the Navy we always had some smart ass sailor that would microwave sardines and smell up half the ship during the midwatch. I couldn't get by the odor to try them.

DZ

Sorry bout that :rotf2: , I never nuked em, but sardines in mustard sauce or smoked oysters were a favorite of mine when the seas picked up. I miss seeing the clear bags filled with bug juice puke. ...

If smoked oysters is high on your yummy food list, you should never eat higher than Taco Bell. Your palate wouldn't know the difference. Save your money for new plugs and cheap booze.:buds:

I wonder how the buggy whip industry is doing? :devil2:

-spence

Maine sardines taste a lot better than the imports. Grew up on them an still love em. Shame the poleticians don't make free traders go by the agreement to improve standards in free trade countries. Drove our sardine industry out of the market as they couldn't compete with giant netters that didn't have to go by American fishery rules.MMMMMM No limits,no health care,no vacations,no OSHA,very little pay,no workers comp,no sick time an on an on. I wonder when they're gonna start worrying about our economy instead of everyone elses on the planet.Who gives a damn if theirs no work in China. The schmucks don't import hardly anything from here no how. Sorry but it's a sore point as every day another freind tells me they got laid off as their job has gone over seas. Ron

I love sardines..:drool:...straight up or on a cracker

Road trip, I'll bring the beer and crackers..

I love sardines..:drool:...straight up or on a cracker

Did I ever mention the time my buddy whipped out a can of sardines and a bag of pork rinds with a Mountain Dew chaser while we driving to a different trout stream?

I almost hurled...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You guys don't know what you're missing........

You guys don't know what you're missing........

Yes we do !

because the fishing regulations diminished their catch by 50 PER CENT. I got this first hand from one of the employees.

Our poleticians spend more time making rules that put our businesses out of business than they do trying to make things better and create more jobs. All for the benefit of foreign jobs to build economies elsewhere. I wonder how much they get paid to keep working for these foreign governments cause they sure as hell aren't doing a damn thing for our country anymore.Time to vote the whole bunch out of office and start from scratch.we need people working for us and not lining their own pockets at our countries expense.

Our poleticians spend more time making rules that put our businesses out of business than they do trying to make things better and create more jobs. All for the benefit of foreign jobs to build economies elsewhere. I wonder how much they get paid to keep working for these foreign governments cause they sure as hell aren't doing a damn thing for our country anymore.Time to vote the whole bunch out of office and start from scratch.we need people working for us and not lining their own pockets at our countries expense.


You sound like my father! :rotf2:

Hi Jim, after watching the damage economically that they've done to my state over the last 4 years and are doing to the rest of our country well time to kick them out and get people in office that care about our country and not the so called world economy.Between giving people that don't/won't work so many give aways and freerides that they have a better life style than those of us that work and making most business have to jump through so many hoops that they're going out of business up here whole sale.We have so many business goin under up here that it's crazy and the rules just keep coming but no he;p to get more jobs in place. If things don't change soon Maine and a lot of other states have had it.The sardine plant is just one of many goin under up here right now. Ron

because the fishing regulations diminished their catch by 50 PER CENT. I got this first hand from one of the employees.

Or maybe because they work on slim margins and, as stated by one of the people in the article, Americans aren't buying sardines any more.

Every one in America works on slim margins now. A shame when all it takes is a change in a law or a limit to put an American business under.Especially when the foreign competition doesn't have to go by the same rules.Free trade is supposed to mean fair trade also.Thats why I try my best to only buy American.Nice thing now is that it's catching on and there're actually site to find American made product.I'd rather pay a higher price and keep someone working than higher taxes to pay someones Welfare and free medical.At least money spent on American products gets spent in America to keep the economy going. Ron

Just coming up from the basement, sharpening the tines on the pitchfork.
Enjoy your Birkenstocks while you can my Liberal comrades.
The next Revolution draws nigh.
:fence:

I like Beach Cliff sardines. Looks like King Oscar's will now be in the shopping cart.

I didn't realize that sardine forks were once part of a "full" set of silverware. Antique sardine forks are expensive collectibles. Hmm

Boo Hoo Hoo...Here is some information to think about.

The reason the atlantic herring quota was reduced this year is that in the five years prior the atlantic herring fleet has failed to harvest the quota. Instead of berate the us government, national marine fisheries service and new england fisheries management council we might just send them all a thank you note for reducing a quota on a very important forage fish that it looks like might be in some trouble. See many op eds from last fall.

Another point we might want to understand is that the atlantic herring fleet that supplied this plant is our old friends the midwater trawl and pair trawl fleet. Yep...the industrial trawlers that catch and dump or mix and sell 1-3 million pounds of river herring by catch is the same poor industry being referred to in this article.

Now do not get me wrong, there is no debate that the closing of this plant is a tragedy to the workers...however...the traditional small boat herring fleet in maine might have considered this outcome when they on multiple occasions have stood in the corner of the mid water fleet that has now done real damage to their coastal community.

I also want to point out that the lack of herring for this plant is very confusing to me when I consider that over the last three years the "industry", including boats and dealers has been fined over 1.1 million for being caught mis reporting over 43million (with a m) pounds of unreported catch.

I further find it a bit suprising that Bumble Bee has not even menitioned the maine lobster industry at all. The maine lobster industry buys every last boat load of low qualtiy herring so why would the industrial fleet care about handling food quality herring. Yep...this plant is being lowballed by not by China, but by the lobster industry.

Just a few Things that make you go....hmmmm

You still miss the point Pat. The rules we put on our fisheries are not the ones that tje foreighn fleet go by which is none. Our poleticians know this and put no sanctions on them and still allow them to be sold in our markets even though the treaty they signed says that if the don't meet the same rules and restrictions as our fisheries and industries that they will be penalized to even the playing feild IE. Import Tariffs.Many industries make bad business choices but it doesn't mean that the competition should be allowed an unfair advantage by being given plitical passes on the agreements they sign into with us.As far as comparing sardines to herring well sardines are fished for in the northern waters not by pair trawlers. a 4 in fish won't stay in a net thats made to keep 7 in fish.I worked on a sardine boat one summer as a kid. we went north to fish not south.
In our zealousness we should be carefull not to again make the mistake that because someone is a freind of so to speak an enemy that they are our enamy also. This problen is a large political one where agreements are made for personal profit that hurt our economy as a whole. When the tariffs where in place many of these businesses flourished very well as the small guy had a chance .
Think about this your a fly fisherman. 20 yrs ago most of the flies we used were tied right here in America by 1000;s of small time at home flt tiers. Umpqua feather Marchants stepped into the picture and started buying up all the top quality materials and having their flies tied in Laos,Thialand and several other countries and then selling them on the American market for a small fraction of what it cost us to tie them let alone sell them. Those tiers get paid pennies a fly and work in sweat shop enviorments. The very thing that the agreements made by our government were suposed to stop and be made better and on par.Sanctions were supposed to be put in place but weren't for political and personal gains by our poeticians.I know this cause I'm one of the many fly tiers that used to tie 4 to 5 thousand flys a yr to sell. LL Bean,Cabelas,Bass Pro, Gander Mountain and most of our tackle shops buy from Umpqua efefectively shutting American tiers almost completely out of the market.
Same problem just another vinue.My cost for tying a fly is more than Umpque sells them for here. HHHHHMMMMM and the problem must be me and all the other tiers like me.We expected our government to look out for our interest being American citizens ist.Not the foreign economy .
As far as the lobster industry goes well like all lobter boats everywhere the spoiled and ruined fish end up in the bait bags used to be red fish till people found out it taste good now herring ,mackeral and whatever else is on hand is used. But again instead of dealing with the poleticians lets keep throwing spears at each other so no one works together to fix the problem.The poleticians. Haven't we learned enough with the bull crap with the health care debates to see the real problem. They need to work for us not the world economy. Period.

Oh by the way these sardines I'm eating now with mustard sauce an garlic bread toasted are some sweet. MMMMMM

MMMMEEEEEOOOOOWWWWW!!!!!!:yak4:

Sorry already told my cat I ain;t sharin them LOL

Ronnie,

I agree the us trade rules make no sense but that has NOTHING to do with the claim this plant is closing because of reduced herring regulations.

The herring (sardines are atlantic herring) regs wer cut back because the quota has not been filled (read...overfishing) and there is no getting around that.

The MWT fleet has recently supplied that plant and its a fact.

As far as being a zealot...you bet your ass...the america industrial herring fleet has damaged all of our fishing communities. They are screwing up our forage/bait and in few years when the science shows how this lack of herring is part of the reason less stripers are migrating to Maine you might start paying attention.

FYI...I work with reps from the small local fishing fleet in Port Clyde and others from all over Maine. We would all love to see some Maine recs come to any one of the many herring hearings in Portland.

Our sardines are going the way of our economy and country......CHINA!!!

Well Pat the sad part is that the foreign fleets are still there catching those same fish we try to protect and our poleticians give them the green light to do so while our boats have quotas and limited seasons. It's like me releasing fish up here so the comercials down there can catch them. So far I have 8 American Litoral tags from nice fish I landed and tagged returned by part time comercials. So much for my catch n release.
We need to deal with the whole problem not just our fishermen. The international boats do way more damage than ours cause they have no rules and all the exceptions like the 7 meter rule that alows small boats to catch all they want. They then go back to their 1000 ft plus mother ship to unload. Like those damn Russian factory ships that were off the coast of Maine in the 80's.The problem is that we tell our fishermen to go by the rules but oooppps we do nothing about their competition.Yup we need strong rules and enforcement but those fish don't just swim in our coastal waters.The enforcement can't just be on our fishermen, it has to be on all.
As far as making meetings well it would be a nice thing but having to work makes it very hard especially when they keep screwin with our pay to give more to those that don't won't work.Many of us can only do them up here where they;re held at night so workin people can make them. The poleticians had to be reminded up here they work for us not the other way around.
I agree it's good to be zealous about these things but we need to deal with the whole problem otherwise it gets like the striped bass. Complain about the comercial rod n reelers then the next day go to New Jearsy or Verginia and go out on a charter boat and catch striped bass in the EEZ an lie about it.Make nice pics till they tell you that you need to throw them overboard cause that speed boat comin your way is the marine police. The whole pic needs to be fixed including these back room treaties the take away from our fishermen no mater who they are for the foreign fishing fleets.
As far as the plant goes well it's done so more jobs are too. Still won't stop the importing of herring caight by foreign comercial boats within eye sight of our own fisherman.
But keep fighting we all do our part hopefully something changes for the good soon or it will all be moot.

will have to find a new "boogie man" because the Sardine Cannery is gone now.

basenjib....The sardine cannery is not in any way part the problem...that cannery is important and it is just the latest victim of the american industrial commercial fleet. The boogie many...sheeet...IF you would like tog et into a numbers debate I say you shoot first...I got my arguements complete.

Ronnie...FYI...The Canadians and actually most of the countries in the world have banned MWT and Pair Trawling...there are no "mother ships off our east coast in any way shape or form.

Your arguement is exactly correct if we were talking about Tuna and some other species but truth is Atlantic Herring, Cod and some other species getting less press have been screwed up by Americans and our system alone...at least those screwed up since the early 80s and that is most that are in trouble today. Hell, the Canadians think we are crazy and are causing all kinds of issues because they will not water down or change their science the way we do.

I feel your pain on having to work at times of most hearings. Just let me ask a follow up. IF you can't attend the hearings/meetings and it takes much longer to find and read the information then where is your information on the atlantic herring industry of today coming from. Pretty much every small boat commercial and rec and enviro group is on the same page...the numbers show all kinds of numbers of many many species in the by catch reports and many species turned downward hard aftr the MWT fleet arrived again in 1999. Their bycatch is ugly and does not descriminate.

I also agree there is more to the Maine striper thing as well but if you think that the shortage of herring off the inshore Maine coast is not a part of it you are in denial.

My son, who is now 17, has been sitting down with me and polishing off a can of sardines on crackers since he was 5. We like em with a dash of tabasco. Preferably Ritz crackers. I started eating them with my Dad when i was about 5. High protien, good fish oil, delicious.

SEAFOOD.COM NEWS [Letters] - April 16, 2010 - ''After 135 years, last US sardine cannery shutting down in Maine, Bumble Bee says quota cuts to blame.''

This story does not get to the root of the problems here. The truth is
the industrial herring fishery has not even caught close to its annual
target quota (e.g. 180,000 metric tons in 2004) for the last several
years. This indicates a problem with herring abundance, not with catch
limits. In fact, the 2010 catch limit was based on the average fleet
landings for the last three years. It is these vessels' exceptional
efficiency that has contributed to shrinking herring populations over
the past decade (a 24 percent decline since 2000).

Furthermore, poor monitoring of this fishery means scientific advisors
don't know exactly what is going on, which leads to a great deal of
uncertainty. Therefore, declining stocks plus uncertainty equals harvest
reductions. It's too bad that Bumble Bee has been fingering fisheries
managers for their problems, when the real culprits are their suppliers:
industrial trawlers. More importantly, it is terrible that so many jobs
will be lost in an area with little opportunity. With luck this factory
can be used for something else and bring jobs back to Maine.

Gary Libby
Lobster and groundfish fisherman
Captain of F/V MisKim and F/V Leslie and Jessica
Port Clyde, Maine

I was not looking for a fight. I was just upset and felt sorry for the guy that I spoke with about the Plant closing. I can see that you know more about this stuff than I ever will. I am sure you have sympathy for the people that lost jobs too. Thanks for the information...it really cleared things up for me. Sorry if I came acrossed like an ass, Joe.

Joe...my passion is driven by the fact that fishermen and others in traditional new england employment are victims (the people in the plant are amongst those). It is insanity to let these industrial operations gut our traditional ways and then blame everyone but themselves and their greedy operations. This fleet has done the same damage in every ocean it has been allowed to fish.

I applaud you for having the free mind to get into the conversation as that is how we will all learn and eventually change the non sustainable methods of the last 15 years or so.

FYI...Ronnie and I have been friends or years and he is someon I hae much respect for as he is what I call a local hero. He serves the local community in all he does and on this issue he is just confusing a couple fisheries issues. One of the many things he and I agree on is that our government has failed our fisheries and we have so very many issues all colliding and that makes for a confusing mess. I only have more knowledge on a few of these issues because it is part of what I get to do for a living and I am grateful to do what I love.

no biggie on my end...we debate and discuss and arrive at intelligent solutions...or we loose...i'd rather have the debate to win

I am not one for engaging in these online discussions, but Basicpatrick has gone too far and it is insulting to Maine fishermen and especially to those in Prospect Harbor who have just lost their jobs - some of whom I have known for 25+ years. Basicpatrick and his like are just trying to displace the blame from their role in this plant closing. Their relentless attacks on the herring fishery - not supported by facts - have more to do with this plant closing than any science or facts about the fishery.

The inshore quota was not reduced because the fishery has not caught the total quota for the fishery - this is just total nonsense! Having attended all public meetings relative to this issue, this was never mentioned as a rational by anyone. Again, this is fabricated by those who attempt to displace their guilt onto others. The total quota was reduced becuase of scientific uncertainty and the inshore quota that Stinson's relied heavily on was drastically reduced because of a political campaign that Basicpatirck has been participating in for a number of years - along with Earth Justice, CHOIR and Pew - all friends of fishermen everywhere!

In fact, the resource is not overfished and overfishing is not occurring. While a number of issues did arise from the most recent stock assessment, it was a consensus of the participating scientists that the stock appears to be stable and that current removals from the fishery have maintained a relatively abundant stock size.

Basicpatrick is right - he is zealot and totally lacking in factual information. Bycatch in this fishery is not ugly - in fact information for the fishery indicates it is one of the cleanest in the region. People like Patrick just say "well we don't believe it." To say most countries ban midwater trawling is not correct. In fact, the largest fishery in the US ( BSAI pollock) is MSC certified as sustainable and prosecuted with midwater trawls. As for the GL letter he posted - I know Gary and do not believe he wrote it. I do beleive he signed it, but most likely written by Earth Justice.

As I said, I have never participated in these online forums but this spin goes way too far. The reality is people like Patrick felt way too comfortable going after the big bad boats and can't own up to their own part in the outcome of this plant closing. and blaming Maine herring fishermen to boot. Take a look in the mirror Patrick and then take a look at the people you hang out with. Every night before you go to bed think about the 140 people in Prospect who lost their jobs!

You state, as fact, that the quota is the reason the factory had to close, and that the quota is putting fishermen out of business.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but, the quota set in 2004 was 180,000 metric tons and has now been decreased to 91,000 metric tons.
According to statistics *From the State of Maine*:
Year Metric Tons Landed
2006 43367
2007 32935
2008 30048
http://www.maine.gov/dmr/commercialfishing/documents/herring.tbl.pdf

So, explain to me where the issue is?

Also, bottom and midwater trawlers are a disgusting practice that should be completely banned. You want to complain about a group that has cost fishermen jobs - in addition to lowering the price of fish and wreaking havoc on the ecosystem all without regard for the fish and only for their wallet, you can start there.

Bycatch in this fishery is not ugly - in fact information for the fishery indicates it is one of the cleanest in the region.


Information from the fishery??? If it's so clean, why have you guys been fighting like hell for years to keep the observers off the boats? Or that nifty little trick you boys like - when there's an observer on one boat, you guys just pair trawl and then the other boat hauls back every time? Oh wait, it's for safety sake that you can just dump your cod end without taking it aboard when its loaded to the gills with haddock. That's right - it's bycatch if it hits the deck, but if you just dump a few metric tons of dead groundfish, its not "by-catch"

And the crowning glory - when there's 6 miles of DEAD FLOATING STRIPERS in the Great South Channel when you boys are busy destroying the fall tuna fishery - that's not discard, b/c you didn't out them on your boat.

And as for the plant closing, while I feel for the men that lost their jobs, - stop exporting the herring on that big freaking freighter that loads at norpel in NB and keep some product for the domestic cannery market. Its not the regs that closed you down - you got a better price overseas and F'd your workers.

Spin on that.

:musc:Well...it didnt take the well funded mwt fleet long to find this thread. :hidin:

I wonder what meherring gets paid to hop on the internet...Welcome :cputin:

I wonder if meherring is the lobbiest that is always talking about how to fix river herring we need to increase the striped bass quota :screwy:

OR is he the dc laywer that is bold enough to admit he is trying to get loopholes in the management plan :wall:

OR maybe he is the plant manager who after giving the speach about being an industry "on our knees" gets in his 50K 2009 Toyota Sequoia :sspam:

OR the employee that likes to yell at people and try an intimidate them outside the hotels :musc:

Let's see what's will you say next...oh...I know...:bs:

The crime here is that your greedy industry is using the tragedy of this plant to push your agenda. Why is your press agent not pushing the positive effort to flip the plant into somehting more reliable :huh:

All you want the press to cover is the quota reduction...:yak5:

The only guilt I feel is that I walked away for a while after we formed CHOIR and we failed at preventing your damage from going as far as it has and for that I feel guily:deadhorse:

Hop on one of your vessels and sail off to your next MSC certified fishery that you are going to ruin. Go kill a whale or dump a bag of the wrong size herring or river herring or haddock over the side since that is what you truely do best.:bshake:

Thats because the mainers V-notch the females

my female has a v notch, if yours doesn't u should return it as faulty

Maine sardines taste a lot better than the imports. Grew up on them an still love em. Shame the poleticians don't make free traders go by the agreement to improve standards in free trade countries. Drove our sardine industry out of the market as they couldn't compete with giant netters that didn't have to go by American fishery rules.MMMMMM No limits,no health care,no vacations,no OSHA,very little pay,no workers comp,no sick time an on an on. I wonder when they're gonna start worrying about our economy instead of everyone elses on the planet.Who gives a damn if theirs no work in China. The schmucks don't import hardly anything from here no how. Sorry but it's a sore point as every day another freind tells me they got laid off as their job has gone over seas. Ron

ditto

Our poleticians spend more time making rules that put our businesses out of business than they do trying to make things better and create more jobs. All for the benefit of foreign jobs to build economies elsewhere. I wonder how much they get paid to keep working for these foreign governments cause they sure as hell aren't doing a damn thing for our country anymore.Time to vote the whole bunch out of office and start from scratch.we need people working for us and not lining their own pockets at our countries expense.

hear, hear........

You sound like my father! :rotf2:

your father is right

Just coming up from the basement, sharpening the tines on the pitchfork.
Enjoy your Birkenstocks while you can my Liberal comrades.
The next Revolution draws nigh.
:fence:

yeah!!!!!

Information from the fishery??? If it's so clean, why have you guys been fighting like hell for years to keep the observers off the boats? Or that nifty little trick you boys like - when there's an observer on one boat, you guys just pair trawl and then the other boat hauls back every time? Oh wait, it's for safety sake that you can just dump your cod end without taking it aboard when its loaded to the gills with haddock. That's right - it's bycatch if it hits the deck, but if you just dump a few metric tons of dead groundfish, its not "by-catch"

And the crowning glory - when there's 6 miles of DEAD FLOATING STRIPERS in the Great South Channel when you boys are busy destroying the fall tuna fishery - that's not discard, b/c you didn't out them on your boat.

And as for the plant closing, while I feel for the men that lost their jobs, - stop exporting the herring on that big freaking freighter that loads at norpel in NB and keep some product for the domestic cannery market. Its not the regs that closed you down - you got a better price overseas and F'd your workers.

Spin on that.

ouch!

i love this thread!

MM....You need to learn how to Multi-Quote...:hihi:

MM....You need to learn how to Multi-Quote...:hihi:

huh? wat that? u luky i use commputter.

just trying to get my number of posts to 10,000 so i can be somebody :biglaugh:

huh? wat that? u luky i use commputter.

Just use the little "+" button next to the quote button. you select all the posts you want to quote then hit the Quote button on the last one. that way it puts them all in the same post like I just did with both of yours.

just trying to get my number of posts to 10,000 so i can be somebody :biglaugh:

Then you can comment on each one......and you got a loooooong way to go to catch Bigfish in the Post count :hee:

You all are missing the point, the plant closing is not related to midwater trawling. Bumble Bee clearly stated that they will close because the reduced quota in the inshore GOM is not sufficient for them to be viable. While the State of Maine numbers appear to be correct, the federal area quotas are the ones to look at.

Inshore GOM:
2006 - 60,000 mt
2007 - 50,000 mt
2008 - 45,000 mt
2009 - 45,000 mt
2010 - 26,546 mt

These fish have been supplied to the plant during the summer/fall season by purse seiners. The quota was drastically cut even though the science says the stock is stable, because of campaigns by the Pew, etc people.

The Norpel plant has nothing to do with this, nor does their fish caught in the winter and shipped oversees. It has to do with available quota in the GOM.

As for all the accusations about midwater trawling, there is no factual information to support the allegations. The fishery has bycatch, but when compared to others in the region it is a clean fishery. There is no factual information to support the striper bycatch in the Channel. In fact, the MA DMF investigated through VMS and found there where no herring boats in the area, but lets not let the facts get in the way.

All the sensational rhetoric "greedy, etc" does not overcome the facts.

The bottom line here is the plant has closed, 140 people have lost there jobs, and these campaigns attacking the fishery have devasted the Maine herring fishery. And as I said before, Patrick, you and your like, should look in the mirror. While the entire outcome can't be laid at anyones feet, you have had a hand in it.

I come from a Maine fishing family, I am not a lawyer, lobbiest or plant manager and don't have a press agent. I also don't plan on spending time arguing here with people who rely on internet forums for their information. Try reading something factual for a change at nefmc.org

You all are missing the point, the plant closing is not related to midwater trawling. Bumble Bee clearly stated that they will close because the reduced quota in the inshore GOM is not sufficient for them to be viable. While the State of Maine numbers appear to be correct, the federal area quotas are the ones to look at.
No, *you're* missing the point and then spinning your position as it's proven wrong and scientifically inaccurate.

If the Maine numbers appear correct, and the federal area quotas are the ones to look at, then why does your post and all the sob stories harp on Maine "decreasing the quota in half"?

As for all the accusations about midwater trawling, there is no factual information to support the allegations. The fishery has bycatch, but when compared to others in the region it is a clean fishery. There is no factual information to support the striper bycatch in the Channel. In fact, the MA DMF investigated through VMS and found there where no herring boats in the area, but lets not let the facts get in the way.
Must've been an unreported oil spill or other disaster that caused miles of belly up stripers. Exactly what other fishery are you referring to that midwater trawling is "a clean fishery" relative to?
YouTube - DEAD STRIPERS OFF NEW ENGLAND - WHO DID THIS? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STkkRyWNskI)

Last US sardine cans being packed in Maine - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100414/ap_on_bi_ge/us_so_long_sardines)


How's that "Hope and change" working for ya?

It has been working great for me. I did not realize that during "Mission Accomplished" jobs previously sent offshore came back to the US. Please enlighten us.

Last US sardine cans being packed in Maine - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100414/ap_on_bi_ge/us_so_long_sardines)


How's that "Hope and change" working for ya?

Production at Maine canneries has been sliding since peaking at 384 million cans in 1950. Faced with declining demand and a changing business climate, the plants went by the wayside one by one until, five years ago, the Stinson plant was the last one standing.

Quit being a tool and trying to politicize a dying business.

The total quota was reduced becuase of scientific uncertainty and the inshore quota that Stinson's relied heavily on was drastically reduced because of a political campaign that Basicpatirck has been participating in for a number of years - along with Earth Justice, CHOIR and Pew - all friends of fishermen everywhere!

I always find it amusing when the midwater lobby tries to paint those of us interested in seeing our forage fisheries managed sustainably as some of out of touch environmentalists.


...it is insulting to Maine fishermen"

You're kidding right?

The Maine fishermen have been some of the strongest folks leading the charge to bring some sanity to the sea herring fishery since the Midwater boats came.

Are you sure that you have attended all meetings on this issue as you mentioned, MEherring? When did you start? You know it doesn't help to attend these meetings if you don't pay attention.

Poor chum. Here, let me help you. Take a listen to the following audio clip from a September 2006 NEFMC meeting. It is only 5 minutes. Pay attention, now, and realize just how out of touch you really are.

http://www.fishtalk.org/rc/nefmc/full_council/capsule/20060926/audio/20060928/t3/s3.m3u

MEherring in case you missed it Steve Weiner, the chairman of Choir, is the commercial tuna fisherman who spoke in that above audio clip. He is a Maine fisherman. Also note that the Maine Lobstermen's Association supported CHOIR's positions as well. Might I suggest you try expanding your circle of friends in the Maine fishing community.

I could introduce you to some at the next NEFMC meeting if you like.

Hope this helps.

Mike Flaherty
Wareham, MA

And as I said before, Patrick, you and your like, should look in the mirror.

You're funny, MEherring.

Lessons Learned From Herring Amendment 1
By Mike Flaherty

Commercial Fisheries News
February 2006


As someone who has been deeply interested and involved in the New England Fishery Management Council’s management of Atlantic herring, I appreciate the depth of coverage, analysis, and opinions that Commercial Fisheries News has devoted to this issue.

While I’m not a commercial fisherman or a processor or a paid lobbyist, at this time I would like to share with you some of my thoughts and observations as someone who has learned a lot during the Amendment 1 process. My hope is that folks will take some lessons learned here and apply them toward future management measures by working together not only on sea herring, but other species as well.

Here are the words New England council Chairman Frank Blount used at the Council’s November 2005 meeting in Hyannis, MA to describe his frustration at council members who could not agree on what to do with Amendment 1 to the Atlantic Herring Fishery Management Plan.

“I think it’s a pretty sad state of affairs when we can work on an amendment for three-and-a-half years and come up with seven alternatives, with input from everybody over years and years and years, and then come up and say at the final meeting that nobody supported any of them.”

By the end of that meeting, the council was persuaded by an overwhelming “tidal wave” of public support for Preferred Alternative 7, which proposed to establish a “buffer zone” to protect herring from the ultra-high efficiency of pair and single midwater trawlers.

As a result, the midwater herring trawl fleet found itself prohibited from the inshore Gulf of Maine—Area 1A—for four months of the year. Of course, midwater trawlers do have the option of switching over to purse seine gear, but that can be an investment upwards of $500,000.

A matter of scale

The premise behind the need to limit midwater trawl activity in Area 1A was based on reports that the gear employed by midwater trawlers, notably pair trawlers, is of a scale so large that its dead discard rate dwarfed that of the traditional purse seine gear, which at one time was the dominant gear type in the herring fishery.

Indeed, during the Amendment 1 process, many folks testified how they saw localized depletion of herring in the inshore Gulf of Maine as pair trawling increased while purse seining decreased. As a result, total mortality on herring from those midwater trawlers working in that area could actually be much higher than the 60,000 metric tons (mt) of total allowable catch (TAC) set for that area - a figure already described as being “of concern and may be excessive” by the Council’s own Scientific and Statistical Committee back in June of 2003.

Why it happened

The reason why the Amendment 1 process took so long and ended up as it did was due to many things. However, unquestionably the overriding factor was that a few powerful factions within the herring industry were unwilling to budge, even a little bit, when it came to working with many of the other valid stakeholders who rely so much on a healthy and abundant inshore herring resource.

I think lobbyist Jeff Kaelin summed up the position and attitude for the majority of the midwater fleet well on July 2004 when he testified, “We are very much opposed to any restrictions in Area 1A at all.”

The herring fishery is a public resource. The sooner the midwater lobby realizes this and opens up to the notion of cooperation and compromise, then the better for all.

Reduced TAC desired

During the herring specification process, which preceded the amendment process, it was the hope of commercial groundfishermen, tuna fishermen, environmentalists, recreational fishermen, whale watch groups, and a growing number of others to reduce the Area 1A TAC by 15,000 mt, equivalent to 25 percent.

This seemed reasonable since the long-term goal of the herring management plan was to develop the relatively untapped TACs in the offshore areas. In turn, this would also help spread fishing effort out.

When that motion failed, a very modest reduction of 5,000 metric tons (eight percent) was proposed.

At the time, the executive director of the Massachusetts Fisheries Recovery Commission, Vito Calomo, helped to derail the motion by imploring, “The 5,000 mt in the scope of the whole herring plan really isn't a lot, but the 5,000 mt taken out of 1A is a tremendous amount.”

When that motion also failed, the focus for many then turned toward limiting the impact of massive midwater trawlers inshore for the above stated reasons.

Too late

Now fast forward to November 2005 when the New England council was debating the merits of Alternative 7. When push came to shove and it was near certainty that the council was going to prohibit late entrants to the Area 1A herring fishery, suddenly Calomo saw the light.

“Reduce the TAC. Not reduce the people who fish for the TAC,” he insisted. “If we are concerned so much about Area 1A, reduce the TAC,” Calomo repeated. The fact of the matter is that this whole mess could have been avoided long ago if Calomo and others were just a wee bit more flexible and open to compromise and cooperation on reducing the Area 1A TAC over a year ago.

Unfortunately, since he and others shot that option down earlier on in the process, an Area 1A reduction wasn’t even on the table as part of any of the Amendment 1 alternatives. So by that point, the council couldn't have reduced the TAC even if it wanted to.

The missed opportunities for the herring lobby to work together with everyone else are endless. One can go as far back as four years ago to when representatives of the Coalition for the Atlantic Herring Fishery’s Orderly, Informed, and Responsible Long-Term Development (CHOIR) approached the East Coast Pelagic Association (ECPA) and others to hammer out a small, voluntary, five-square-mile area as an experimental buffer zone.

As CHOIR’s Rich Ruais testified at a May 2005 meeting of the herring oversight committee, “They walked away from us on that. Absolutely no help whatsoever. We repeatedly had meetings whether it was in Rockland, ME or Gloucester, MA. Absolutely nothing came from any effort to work with ECPA on this issue.”

Joe Jancewicz of the East Coast Tuna Association added, “I was at those meetings up in Rockland in the O'Hara building when we tried for the compromise. I was the one who drew out on the chart what would be nice to compromise with. We pretty much got laughed out of the building.”

Now ECPA and all other midwater trawlers are banned from all of Area 1A for four months of the year. I wonder if they now wish they gave more consideration to the much smaller area when they had the chance?

APA effort commended

Out of all of this, there was one very notable example of cooperation. In the hope of hammering out a “compromise alternative,” the herring boats based out of New Bedford and represented by Peter Moore of the American Pelagic Association (APA) did reach out to CHOIR. Tremendous credit needs to be given here to Moore as his actions were at APA’s peril of being perceived as breaking ranks with the remaining midwater lobby, which continued to cling to its hard-line positions.

As Moore described at the June 2005 New England council meeting in Portland, ME, “We’re really sticking our necks out here in trying to move this compromise ahead.”

The purpose of this “Alternative 8” was to allow midwater trawlers to fish in Area 1A, but only allow two trips per month during the peak season. Alternative 8 had very good support. Unfortunately, because of its late timing, it did not gain enough support from the full council to be included in Amendment 1, as it would have probably further delayed the amendment. However, it remains a shining example of what can be done if folks work together.

As we move forward, whether the topic is herring, groundfish, marine protected areas, or any of the other issues where so many different stakeholders are impacted, I hope that more folks take a moment to reach out to the other side to work on real and reasonable solutions.

I come from a Maine fishing family, I am not a lawyer, lobbiest or plant manager and don't have a press agent. I also don't plan on spending time arguing here with people who rely on internet forums for their information. Try reading something factual for a change at nefmc.org

Sure you aren't a lobbyist for the midwaters....

The Midwater boats completely and absolutely screwed up the traditional maine seiner and weir fishery and those guys hate you too.

Now way in hell anyone associated with the traditional seiners is going to defend your pair-trawlers.

Nice Try. You put those men out of their jobs, quit trying to spin it.

No one here is that stupid.

Gee Mike - now you've made it easy.

Your letter and Steve's testimony clearly advocate for the reduction in the inshore TAC. Steve talks of a crashed stock and suggests that there may even be a need to close the fishery, but we can't do that because of lobstermen. He chastises Dr. Pierce for considering the economic impact to the herring industry and states the economic impact to him and others is more important. Real nice - we should all be more concerned for Steve in his ocean front home in Kennebunk and a fancy tuna boat than we should be for those 140 people in Prospect.

Steve claims to speak for many, but I doubt the numbers are what he portrays. The MLA is not a supporter of CHOIR and in fact asked to be removed from the CHOIR web site when they found they were listed. The few commercial Maine fishermen that jumped on this bandwagon feeld quite burned and the few that remain are mostly underwritten by PEW-Earth Justice - not hardly a ground swell.

And for all of your denigrating midwater trawls, that's not even the issue here. This is about the summer purse seine fishery and the cannery. The seine boats have gone from approx. 80 landing days in 2006 to approx 28 landing days (during the PS only period June-Sept 31) in 2009. All this under the recommended TAC reductions by you and others. All this with no clear science or assessment for the GOM herring population. Your goal was clear - you hate the big boats, but you also didn't care about who else got thrown under the bus.

As for your article, its all heresay, you weren't even there. I could do the same and offer the opposite opinion, but I won't.

The work of you and your friends as devastated the Maine herring fishery - midwater trawlers, purse seiners, cannery workers and not very helpful to lobstermen either. It also may prove to be a very bad ecosystem choice for us all as the lobster industry tries to replace about 30,000 mt of bait with products from the West Coast, Europe, ect - where ever they can get it.

As for going to meetings, I've been to quite a few - but I didn't see you. No, your at home listening to your tapes - really clued in. Have you ever been herring fishing? Ever been to Prosepct Harbor?

"For options that reduce landings, there would be revenue losses to herring processors and impacts on processing plant employees. The cannery in Maine is particularly vulnerable to options that significantly reduce the Area 1A TAC since the cannery has traditionally been dependant on that area in the summer. Reductions in available
herring, highly variable landings, and increased cost of herring will make it difficult for the cannery to continue to produce canned herring at a profit and keep employees working"
NEFMC - A Herring Specs 2010-2012

Try looking in the mirror Mike and think about the 140 people that lost their jobs in eastern rural Maine. It impacts the whole community; the corner store, gas station, the tax base and the local school. All now being shored up by unemploment payments. You really should visit!

To say nothing of the last US cannery closing and an industry lost.

Sleep well Mike

...


The difference between your posts and the people you disagree with is that they present a point and you basically just say, "no you're wrong, look in the mirror. I don't know how you sleep at night" and then spin into some other topic.

You harp that the decrease of quotas (that's what this is all about, right?) is what caused the cannery to go under, yet don't provide any proof for it other than hearsay from meetings. On the other hand, there have been numerous references to people *from the sardine industry* that have stated that demand for sardines is in the toilet.

Also, you continue to ignore my point that according to the State of Maine, the historical commercial landings have been consistently and significantly below what the new quota has been set to. Again, isn't that what this is all about, the decreased quota in Maine???

This is my favorite of your comments:
The work of you and your friends as devastated the Maine herring fishery - midwater trawlers, purse seiners, cannery workers and not very helpful to lobstermen either. It also may prove to be a very bad ecosystem choice for us all as the lobster industry tries to replace about 30,000 mt of bait with products from the West Coast, Europe, ect - where ever they can get it.
So you're telling us that the decreased quota which was never met has "devastated the Maine herring fishery". And on top of that, all the extra bait that could potentially be off the coast of Maine (which wasn't being caught any way) "may prove to be a very bad ecosystem choice for us" as lobstermen get bait for other, potentially more sustainable areas? How exactly?

MEHerring

If you are so concerned about the smaller local fishermen will we see you support the ASMFC Addendum being pushed by NH to loosen the days out rules for the small boats so that they are not dominated by your industrial fleet?

On another point, tell me, if there is not enough Herring to supply this plant then why all the effort to make sure we have a full set of regulations for carrier vessels that can take Herring from a Pair Trawl at sea and land it in a variety of locations including Canada...hey...Canada still has Sardine Plants doesn't it...wait for it...greed and profit is all your kill it all, sell what you can and dump the rest industry cares about.

Come on now...let get honest...if the money paid to the plant workers at Bumble Bee was the same money paid to the foreigners at the Norpel we might not be talking. It's all about the profit...right.

In all fairness I should tell you that as we move forward with Am 5 every time the council is talking about River Herring and you blame it on Striped Bass...each and every time you say the words "Striped Bass" I say the words ..."Dead Whale". How many did you kill this year sailor.

As I have said all along it is a real shame about the 140 persons. I hope instead of playing on the internet or running to Canada to set up the next country whose fisheries you are going to decimate, at least some of you connected industrial type folks are convincing the LL Bean Lady or Ohara or someone to flip the plant into a Lobster processing facility and give those 140 (average age over 50 by the way) people and those to come after them some longer term job security. Your State just passed a bill within the last week to allow Lobstrs to be sold as processed. A new product that people actually want is now allowed in Maine and there is a worldwide market. Please tell me your goignto use your influence to help them because playing here in the internet with us is not goign to accomplish anything.

As a matter of fact I should send you a thank you note for keeping a political discussion going on a recreational board the week the Striper are arriving...you can do what I can not. Let's keep arguing so more of my recreaitonal brothers learn about your nasty nasty industy.

Your serve

My goodness, where to begin.


"As for your article, its all heresay, you weren't even there."

MEherring, did you happen to notice I quoted those who were there. You really need to pay more attention. These are your fellow commercial fishermen that you and your friends screwed over. You know it, I know it, and all of the non-herring commercial fishermen in New England know it. No amount of spin from you will ever change that. FACT: Midwater pair trawling for herring in New England created CHOIR.


"The work of you and your friends as devastated the Maine herring fishery - midwater trawlers, purse seiners, cannery workers and not very helpful to lobstermen either."

Wow! And I mean WOW!!

Did it ever occur to you that the midwater pair trawlers are simply not compatitble for the New England region? There is a reason why they had to bring these boats over from Europe and the west cost of the United states. As was mentioned by previous folks, there was never a problem with herring before the MWTs. Ooops, I forgot. The Russians devastated the stock first. After the US booted them from the EEZ, you were later allowed to make that same mistake. Great company you have there.


"The MLA is not a supporter of CHOIR..."

I said they have "supported CHOIR's positions". Pay attention. Do you disagree that MLA supported the so-called "buffer zone" like virtually everyone except the midwater herring lobby?


For options that reduce landings, there would be revenue losses to herring processors and impacts on processing plant employees. The cannery in Maine is particularly vulnerable to options that significantly reduce the Area 1A TAC since the cannery has traditionally been dependant on that area in the summer. Reductions in available
herring, highly variable landings, and increased cost of herring will make it difficult for the cannery to continue to produce canned herring at a profit and keep employees working"
NEFMC - A Herring Specs 2010-2012

Obviously if landings are reduced it will impact processors.

Shhh. I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Don't tell anyone. We'll keep this between you and I. The trick is not bending to industry pressure to allow things to get so out of hand that reductions are inevitable. It's called pay it now or pay it later, MEherring.

In other words, had the MWTs never been promoted (yes promoted) by the state directors in the first place, then the TAC in the inshore Gulf of Maine would still be at 60,000 mt as it had beeen for sooooo long before they showed up.

Did you ever hear herring described as "the rice of the sea"? I learned that from a commercial fisherman. Everything changed when the MWTs impacted this region. Everything!

Think about that for a moment and imagine what your friends in Prospect harbor could be doing now with 60,000 metric tons of SUSTAINABLE harvest without pair trawlers.


"Sleep well Mike"

Sleep well, yourself. There is a reason why you don't give your name.

LOL Tha shame of it all is that as we argue there are still no steps being made to stop the foreign deep water boats from China,Japan,Spain,Russia,France,Brazil,Argentina,a frican nations and so on from raping the ocean with in eye sight of our comercial boats that have to go by all these rules that are made for them.Show me one foreign boat that doesn't go by the same rules we enforce on our fisheries that is held accountable. My point isn't about the rules ,the herring,net sizes of number of fishing days allowed. It's the unfair advantage given to these foreign fleets as they take the fish home can or process them and then sell them on our markets at the expense of our economy so that some poleticians can put more money in their pocets.