http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/sfa/hms/newslist/2010/04-20-10_2009_Fishing_Year_Bluefin_Tuna_Landings.pdf


Let the debates begin.

:rollem:

As I said, change is coming.

The days of multiple fish kept are long over.

This one's gonna hurt.

The days of multiple fish kept are long over.

Got the HMS email yesterday... There is NO way that only 5 trophy's were taken by rec anglers last year coastwide. give me a break..

so some of you argue guys were over reporting school/mediums to bump up the catch quota, but then seriously under reported the # of giants??

As a semi-outsider to the bluefin fishery, I was always surprised they had a 2 fish bag, even with the different sizes (i.e. when it was 1@ 27-42, 42-73)

I hope it isn't so drastic it kills the fishery, especially for the charter guys and others who have spent a ton of money on gear and such... I suspect a lot of 50's will hit the classifieds this year...

Again, I ask... if the comms are consistently below their quota, what is the big issue with the recs being above?

From a international perspective, nothing.

However, if the trend of the past few years continunes into 2010, the fish we have been seeing will be crossing over into the comm size classes. Thus, the rec landings will need to be reigned in as the comm will start to land more fish and use its quota.

After digging on the NMFS/HMS home page I found a solid presentation regard bluefin

Office of Sustainable Fisheries (http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/sfa/hms/Advisory%20Panels/Advisory_Panel.htm)

Scroll down to Feb 18, 2009 - BFT Recent Trends.

From a international perspective, nothing.

However, if the trend of the past few years continunes into 2010, the fish we have been seeing will be crossing over into the comm size classes. Thus, the rec landings will need to be reigned in as the comm will start to land more fish and use its quota.

There's no guarantee that the current year-class we see such an abundance of will keep coming back. With issues of trawlers taking all the herring and Omega vacuuming all the menhaden, I can't imagine there is enough bait to hold the massive class of fish here when they get to that size.

Filling the commercial quota has always been an issue and the regulations can be changed at any time. One comment that has been made here quite frequently is that if we (as in the US) keep failing at filling the quota, then it will go somewhere else. With that in mind, the rec limits should stay the same until science determines them unsustainable due to the commercial sector actually filling their quota. If the commercial quota is getting filled rapidly, along with the rec quota, they can shut it down.

Once these fish get to the commercial size, a lot of recreation tuna guys will probably never be geared up, nor have the boats, to stay in the game.

One of the big buzz phrases thrown around during the striper gamefish status proposal was "Shared Resource". Well, it goes both ways. If commercial SB shouldn't be shut down because it's a shared resource, neither should recreational tuna.

Got the HMS email yesterday... There is NO way that only 5 trophy's were taken by rec anglers last year coastwide. give me a break..

so some of you argue guys were over reporting school/mediums to bump up the catch quota, but then seriously under reported the # of giants??

As a semi-outsider to the bluefin fishery, I was always surprised they had a 2 fish bag, even with the different sizes (i.e. when it was 1@ 27-42, 42-73)

I hope it isn't so drastic it kills the fishery, especially for the charter guys and others who have spent a ton of money on gear and such... I suspect a lot of 50's will hit the classifieds this year...


The big ones get sold. Like it or not

Only two category/classes of fish were over-quota; 1) long-line and 2) recreational for lg/med/small school. We may see a higher % of fish in the 73"+ range, which will be tougher to land for many recreational anglers and will put more fish in the one/year "trophy" range. It will be interesting to see how that effects matters.

In addition to this data,a great number of recreationally caught BFT go unreported. Some are lazy and don't report, some don't know they have to report, some figure if they don't report then the season lasts longer.

If this data is correct no doubt big changes are coming. Talking with a local tackle shop owner there are more than a few people holding off on buying gear set-ups until new rule changes come out.

go commercial

In addition to this data,a great number of recreationally caught BFT go unreported. Some are lazy and don't report, some don't know they have to report, some figure if they don't report then the season lasts longer.

If this data is correct no doubt big changes are coming. Talking with a local tackle shop owner there are more than a few people holding off on buying gear set-ups until new rule changes come out.

It would be nonsense to close the recreational fishery. If that idea gets thrown around, then the commercial quota should be decreased to preserve a one fish per day take for recs.

Lets not kid around Matt,take your numbers off the recreational quota there would not be an issue,you just catch too damn many fish !

Last I heard you were the hiliner!!

Mark cod fishing has been insane. This weekend? Talk to me.

I always wonder about the reporting rec numbers. Personally I try to report as accurately as I can but when you get your permit I don't recall seeing emphasis on reporting your rec catch.

I think many recs out there don't bother reporting but that is a pure guess on my part. Are the numbers of tuna caught based on the real reported numbers OR are they based on guesstimates of fish based on permits sold? (or both)

Comm is another issue, reporting is part of the system there.

From what I gather there is a formula that is used to come up with the number. What I also understand is fish reported at the ramp to the guys with clipboards are not cross referenced with fish that are called in. Those fish are being double counted. I also believe that since the ramp collectors are payed per report, they make sh$t up.
The other number that is factored in is the mysterious " unreported number of fish " .

All in all it's a piss poor way of collecting data.

I say issue 5 tags per permit. They have to be signed and dated upon a catch and then called in with the tag number. Make the fine for an untagged fish so heavy it will self regulate.

From what I gather there is a formula that is used to come up with the number. What I also understand is fish reported at the ramp to the guys with clipboards are not cross referenced with fish that are called in. Those fish are being double counted. I also believe that since the ramp collectors are payed per report, they make sh$t up.
The other number that is factored in is the mysterious " unreported number of fish " .

All in all it's a piss poor way of collecting data.

I say issue 5 tags per permit. They have to be signed and dated upon a catch and then called in with the tag number. Make the fine for an untagged fish so heavy it will self regulate.

I agree totally.

Black market in tags........don't get me wrong I'm all in favor of a tag system. Based up my needs I'd offer 2 for sale/bid.

BIG FINES no tag!

Tag system won't work for the charter fleet.
5 tags for recs sounds a bit high in my opinion. Who the hell eats that much tuna ?

Tag system won't work for the charter fleet.
5 tags for recs sounds a bit high in my opinion. Who the hell eats that much tuna ?

What are you thinking would work for both Ron? We would still be releasing most fish.

What are you thinking would work for both Ron? We would still be releasing most fish.




What are you thinking would work for both Ron?

Probably nothing would make both sides happy.
I would prefer charter separate from recs.
Charters take passengers for a fee, those passengers typically take 1 trip per year.
Recs, same boats, passengers/crew, LOTS of trips per year !
That tag system idea, some of the charter fleet would use them up in a week.

I like the idea of a tag system, but realistically its never going to happen. NMFS has been managing this fishery one way for 30 years - bag limits and closed days/seasons.

I wouldn't expect anything more.

Again, I ask... if the comms are consistently below their quota, what is the big issue with the recs being above?

Not being sarcastic but Comm's kill adult fish after they have had a chance to spawn and recs mostlly kill juvinile's...mostly.

[QUOTE=Raider Ronnie;765154]
I would prefer charter separate from recs.
QUOTE]

Ronnie

You might want to get some details on how this idea will effect your business upon implementation.

In groundfish, there will be a limited entry program based upon your permit history. How long a boat has had the federal charter boat permit for groundfish will determine how many fish and if you get fish. Many with short history will most likely loose permits.

For Tuna the only permits that will count for history will be the charter/headboat permit. Besides the question of being shut out because of not enough history and or reporting, there will also be a lot of guys that have been getting the general category permit and chartering that will loose out as well.

This strategy will change every fisheries managment plan. For example; we just fought real hard to make sure the commercial fleet stays out side of places like wollaston for pogies. If the charter fleet is now selling fish to their customers, are they now considered commercial? Lots of changes and arguements.

The worst effect will be the split of representation on management bodies. The little clout we have will be splintered into many many opinions. This is a classic example of divide and conquer. The next move will be to split the Party/Head Boats from the Charter Boats. How is that going to work as far as representation in fisheries management. To support the "split" is goign to mean paying a lot more for representation.

Splitting Charter and Straight Recreational is a Bad Idea. All of the scenarios I have described have played out in other parts of the US.

There is a reason the National Association of Charter Boat Operators is against the split.

Just some more things that make you go hmmmmmm

Not being sarcastic but Comm's kill adult fish after they have had a chance to spawn and recs mostlly kill juvinile's...mostly.

I know you aren't and your opinion is very valid. A fish killed is a fish killed. Recs can only handle the smaller fish, thus the larger, healthy breeder fish stay somewhat unmolested. Isn't this the same argument people used with Stripers: "Put those healthy 40# breeders back and only keep smaller fish."

With some of the people I've encountered, it seems like people are talking out of both sides of their mouth - "Don't take away comm stripers because there is too much take, but it's ok to shut down the recreational tuna take due to being over quota."

I know you aren't and your opinion is very valid. A fish killed is a fish killed. Recs can only handle the smaller fish, thus the larger, healthy breeder fish stay somewhat unmolested. Isn't this the same argument people used with Stripers: "Put those healthy 40# breeders back and only keep smaller fish."

With some of the people I've encountered, it seems like people are talking out of both sides of their mouth - "Don't take away comm stripers because there is too much take, but it's ok to shut down the recreational tuna take due to being over quota."

The difference between stripers and tuna is that with stripers, even the smaller fish are breeders, with tuna no fish smaller than about 70 inches has ever had a chance to spawn.

I know you aren't and your opinion is very valid. A fish killed is a fish killed. Recs can only handle the smaller fish, thus the larger, healthy breeder fish stay somewhat unmolested. Isn't this the same argument people used with Stripers: "Put those healthy 40# breeders back and only keep smaller fish."

With some of the people I've encountered, it seems like people are talking out of both sides of their mouth - "Don't take away comm stripers because there is too much take, but it's ok to shut down the recreational tuna take due to being over quota."



JD, do you ever tuna fish ?

JD, do you ever tuna fish ?

A bit. Probably will more this year than last.

But that's dependent on what comes about after the regulation meetings. We're all (myself included) just wasting our figurative breaths, arguing points that aren't issues yet. Hopefully, some sense comes out of the meetings.