I am just amazed at the level of stupidity being displayed by ASMFC



"on November 9th the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission will vote on on the proposal to expand the coastal commercial quota for striped bass. Stripers Forever is strongly opposed to this idea on all grounds. Here are the states that voted in favor of this commercial expansion in past meetings:


North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, New York, Rhode Island, Connecticut


The vote in favor was 10 to 6, so we need to change two votes in order for the increase to be denied - other districts and organizations have votes also. We think that several votes will change because of the terrible season that has gone by, the public comments against the idea, and the recent poor young-of-the-year survey from Chesapeake Bay, but it is very important that we take nothing for granted. Money is a powerful tool, and many of the commercial interests will be doing their best to get a bigger slice of the declining striped bass pie."

Can the striped bass sustain the pressure? Incredible how many of these fish are already harvested by all sides, commercial, rec., party and charter. I'm dumbfounded at the amount of meat that gets taken on the southwest Ledge on Block Island. We're going to be sorry if we keep the pressure up. We need to be smart--I don't know if a group of managers and scientists can be smart. In a funny way they are too smart and therefore trip on their toes. These groups have gotten too big--they behave like the tower of babel, all the jargon and data--whatever happened to eyes.

And yet the whole commercial side--because of the very tight quotas on other species like scup and haddock and yellowtail flounder; plus the whole coming of fleet consolidation and allocation grabbing--where the benefit goes to those with the deepest pockets---the small boat commercial fisherman in many Atlantic States, feels that it is his/her American Right to harvest striped bass at a higher level. It's a mess Paul. A total mess. People need to be smart about this. I like one fish per day. But I don't own a charter boat and I don't sell them. And I don't think that striped bass has caused the collapse of the southern New England lobster fishery. . .

That is a mistake. Commercial fishing is decimating the stocks and I am sorry if it pisses people off but I believe this is reason number 1 why the fall run the last few seasons has sucked and there is a noticeable lack of small fish. All the breeders are being taken. That is my belief and like it or not kiddies I am sticking to it.

Reason number 2 is the 2 fish a day take........we need to roll that back to 1 fish at 36 inches! Nobody needs 2 fish a day.

That is a mistake. Commercial fishing is decimating the stocks and I am sorry if it pisses people off but I believe this is reason number 1 why the fall run the last few seasons has sucked and there is a noticeable lack of small fish. All the breeders are being taken. That is my belief and like it or not kiddies I am sticking to it.

Reason number 2 is the 2 fish a day take........we need to roll that back to 1 fish at 36 inches! Nobody needs 2 fish a day.

Recreational fishermen kill a boatload more fish than commercial guys do. WE ARE THE PROBLEM!!!!!! That being said, there is no way we should allow a rise in the commercial take. Both sides should lower their limits

Well there are more recreational fisherman than commercial. The problem being the size minimum the comms need to take their limit. They are taking more large than the recreational fisherman in my estimation. If I keep 10 fish all year (which is accurate) a comm takes 10 on a day and they are all large (breeders).

As I said and have said since they increased the take to 2 a day......thats more than anyone needs and it should be 1 at 36. This would cut the rec take dramatically!

i agree with all points here accept the 1 a day. if u increase to 36 keep it at 2,give the dingo's a fighting chance.

does anyone know of partition websites that can be spamed or mailing addresses?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

stop all this nonsense and give them gamefish status as well as a coastwide limit of 1 @ 36"....and we can't forget the baitfish issues. sidenote- there are waaay too many guys illegally selling backdoor to restaurants and others. take the bounty off the fish and watch them flourish.

it's not rocket science.

I've been poking around here and there and I'm not exactly sure it's the com guy that is destroying anything.My angle on this is a bit different.If you fix the bait inshore the bass will come back.The herring,pogies,and squid have been getting pounded into oblivion the last couple years.I know here in RI the pogies come in then DEM's plan that has failed 2 years straight fails and the pogies get wiped out in a few days.The squid show up and 15 draggers show up a mile off newport and take them all until they are gone.Set after set after set.Herring has been bad for years and no longer a reliable sustainable source of forage.What we've had is sand eels off shore by the megaton and the fish just staying out and eating.Doing what they do.Feeding on the easiest most abundant.The bigger bass that are coming in are full of lobster and the local lobster guys barely make enough to cover gas.The truth is the commercial quota isn't the problem.The bass have no food to eat.I am a rec fisherman and have seen both sides of the platter.Picture this if your mind allows.DEM closes pogies for the season.The squid boats are not allowed within 5 miles of the furthest point off the east coast.What would happen when the bays fill with bait? I'm pretty sure it would change most people's view.I have no problem with upping the com take as long as the rec regulations get changed.1 fish a day is fine or "gamefish" is fine .Tag program that allows a certain amount a year would also be fine for me.The commercial take is regulated and the season gets closed when the quota is met.Rec is open,no catch numbers from a large percentage and no closed season.Never mind all of the people rec fishing and selling their catch for cash.Another problem although it's smaller than the bait and bad regulations it still is a problem.Like I said earlier let the bays fill up with bait on the entire coast and then we'll talk about bass population problems and regulations.

Fix the bait first! :wall:

Adam 777 for President of Fisheries Management!!!!:uhuh:

no fishing within 5 miles--so that would get rid of all state waters commercial fisherman in most states--then all quota would go to the federal larger-sized boats and all fisheries would shift to a winter offshore harvest. I'd be totally against this.

What about rolling closures: close an area, let the fish spawn and then open it again. That seems to be working in the southern Gulf of Maine for groundfish.

It is a slippery slope. Something might make sense for one fishery but make no sense in a another. I contradict myself all the time. Like I think herring boats (which are all federal boats) should be required to fish at least 5 miles off the beaches. Yet when it comes to squid I feel differently. . .

That is a mistake. Commercial fishing is decimating the stocks and I am sorry if it pisses people off but I believe this is reason number 1 why the fall run the last few seasons has sucked and there is a noticeable lack of small fish. All the breeders are being taken. That is my belief and like it or not kiddies I am sticking to it.

Reason number 2 is the 2 fish a day take........we need to roll that back to 1 fish at 36 inches! Nobody needs 2 fish a day.

So you say blame the commercial people.

Your way of thinking is:
Don't you dare blame the recreational fishermen that catch in access of 25 million pounds and has at least a 6 percent fatality rate on released fish. :smash:

With them stats your group kills 1,500,000 fish that you think are going to live when you practice catch & release.
And do not give me the crap that the recreational fishermen bring in dollars to motels, restauarants, etc:
Charter boats do the same thing, they bring in monies to motels, restaurants etc. too, guess what, charter boats are commercial fishing, they receive money.

....an increase at this point for com seems like a recipe for disaster.
A moratorium should be considered, IMHO.......its starting to seem inevitable anyway.:confused:

There someone goes putting words in my mouth again! Flyrod....not sure how you missed my comments on the recreational community but check your notes, re-read my posts please. This is a controversial issue and people are going to disagree.....I am entitled to my opinions just as you are and I will respect your opinions as long as you respect mine. Just because folks do not agree with someone elses opinion does not make it wrong! So do me a favor and check yourself!

Fly Rod you may also notice I did not comment on the prospect of cutting back the comm quota.........just against the raising of the quota! My only change IS THE RECREATIONAL DAILY TAKE!

Keep the quota as is for now.
1 fish at 36" for recs.
the numbers will come down.

The 5 mile scenario was just put out to prove my point that I think the bait is the actual problem here.The people that manage the resources are failing and their decisions are changing migration,spawn and foraging for many different species not just bass.The entire system needs an overhaul.Like said earlier what works for one fishery doesn't for others.Bottom line is no bait=no fish.No bait= fish eat into other fishery's.No bait=bad.Bottom line it's what needs to be fixed.The com quota in some states could be adjusted for fair coverage from all of the other states.I don't see why some of the states with the larger quota's would need an increase .Should be like tug of war if RI gets 100K lbs then a couple of the heavy hitting states should have to lower their overall to make up the difference thus not changing the overall.Until the fishery managers can get accurate stock assessments I don't think an increase in total com take is the right move.Shuffling the take from state to state for now is fine but the problem's will still remain.It's other fishery's impact on the bass that needs to be fixed.So I don't support overall comm increase but I do think they could shuffle the numbers from state to state a bit more.

All good points but I think it was Afterhours who said it best. Give the bass gamefish status and make the limit 1 fish a day. I believe in the 36" or 34" and saw it work in the 80s and early 90s.

In any event, just to reiterate:

Game fish status
No commercial season ....ever
1 fish a day for the recs 34 or 36".

I read a post on the "other" site where this guys bragged that he fishes almost everyday and takes his limit of fish everyday. So if it's 100 days and he takes 2 fish a day then he kills 200 28"+ fish every year. What the hell does he do with that many fish? The man is an idiot and should be banned from this sport.

One other point. I know that there are many guys on this site that are comm. I did it myself in the 70s but it was gas money and bait money and equipment money. It wasn't "make a living money". I have no problem with guys who make a living on the water. I just think the Striped Bass is too valuable of a resource to wantonly slaughtered for commercial or even recreational reasons.

During the moritorium, we that were hard core kept fishing even though we could not keep anything. If you do this thing of ours because you love it, then it doesn't matter if you kill anything. I personally caught well over 200 legal Bass this year. I killed exactly 2 fish that were gut hooked.

We need to apply some sanity or it will be the 80s all over again.

I read a post on the "other" site where this guys bragged that he fishes almost everyday and takes his limit of fish everyday. So if it's 100 days and he takes 2 fish a day then he kills 200 28"+ fish every year. What the hell does he do with that many fish? The man is an idiot and should be banned from this sport.



I find it hard to believe that someone catches 2 keepers every time he goes fishing

Recreational fishermen kill a boatload more fish than commercial guys do. WE ARE THE PROBLEM!!!!!! That being said, there is no way we should allow a rise in the commercial take. Both sides should lower their limits

Agree with everyone thing you said. Unfortunately I don't think anything will change other than golf courses and bars will probably get little more crowded as there are less and less fish to catch.

There someone goes putting words in my mouth again! Flyrod....not sure how you missed my comments on the recreational community but check your notes, re-read my posts please. This is a controversial issue and people are going to disagree.....I am entitled to my opinions just as you are and I will respect your opinions as long as you respect mine. Just because folks do not agree with someone elses opinion does not make it wrong! So do me a favor and check yourself!

Fly Rod you may also notice I did not comment on the prospect of cutting back the comm quota.........just against the raising of the quota! My only change IS THE RECREATIONAL DAILY TAKE!

Everyone is intitled to an opinion and that is gauranteed by our first amendment.

What I commented on was that you stated that the commercials are the number one problem. My quote to you was that they were not.

Here is your quote that I commented on.
Commercial fishing is decimating the stocks and I am sorry if it pisses people off but I believe this is reason number 1.

The south shore may have had not so good a year. We had a great year in deep water and along the shore.

Anyway, pull up to your favorite chair, sit back and enjoy the football games today. You deserve it. :cheers:

I find it hard to believe that someone catches 2 keepers every time he goes fishing

You mean, you don't? :jump1::jump1:

1 @ 36. let's start there!

We just might have some fantastic bluefish years heading our way.

GF

don,t fu ckin say that ;;

all the talk on bass // rec,s // commercials //

a fish a day // change the size ?/ make it a slot //


all of this is a never ending argument ..

I .m clueless how they can even think about raising the quota of commercial bass ;; even the commercial guy knows the fish is in trouble ;;

the only real answer .. that will fix it once & for all is make it a gamefish ................ then in a few years .......... if they have a few good YOY classes / them there is a good chance we will be back to the 40" fish that ways 20 lbs .

there are too many parts to the puzzle .............................................. but the biggest issue is ... the YOY for the last 4 out of 6 years has really sucked .............................. some of that is the taking of breeders .......... 36" fish is a breeder ;;
the slaughter of the huge fish /off the Virginia coast that are ripe & waiting for their time clock to tell them when to go inshore & spawn .

the Chesapeak it self is in trouble . its tough to breed when there are dead zones / disease & alot of factors other than fishing .

the f #^&#^&#^&#^&#^& rocker scientest . spent 20 years & billions of dollars on trying to restore the C/Bay .. They finally issued a report last year . that it was a complete failure .
one of the main reason is that they identfied many of the polluntants >>> which are coming from the chemicals & cow animal %$%$%$%$ from the farms ........... f #^&#^&#^&#^&#^& nitwits ........ the farmers were [asked] to put up fences to keep their herds from getting to the creeks & rivers ............ yeah right . the red necks went right out and bought 100000 miles of fencing ;
they knew this was happening / that is / nothing was being done .. the farmers said f uck the bay . so they still spent the billions dollars & waited 20 Years pretty much knowing it was going to fail ..

WTF is wrong with these people ;;:yak5:

NOW THE BEST THING
???? ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS LOWER THE REC SLAUGHTER CATCH BUY 10,000,000 POUNDS AND THE BASS COULD COME BACK FASTER...U BUNCH OF KILLERS:yak5:

Dave's trolling again, looks like he has some real good bait too.Hopefully he changed his line recently as I got a feeling he could get a big fish

Everyone is intitled to an opinion and that is gauranteed by our first amendment.

What I commented on was that you stated that the commercials are the number one problem. My quote to you was that they were not.

Here is your quote that I commented on.
Commercial fishing is decimating the stocks and I am sorry if it pisses people off but I believe this is reason number 1.

The south shore may have had not so good a year. We had a great year in deep water and along the shore.

Anyway, pull up to your favorite chair, sit back and enjoy the football games today. You deserve it. :cheers:

Yep I stand behind that! Comms do most of the damage and you will not change my mind on that! Personally I agree with Piemma and it would not bother me one bit to do away with the commercial season!

The sky IS falling. AGAIN!

And if we don't find a way to accept that RECS and COMMS are both killers, thus in the wrong, then history will repeat itself.

And then Washington will take radical measures to protect the resource from fishermen, all fishermen, after the stocks are driven to collapse.

WE must regulate ourselves and become politically active if WE want to preserve our fishery.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I agree with Clammer and with the current management I do not think you'll ever get a change to gamefish status
Most of that runoff into the Bay is from the poultry business, Purdue makes their contract growers deal the crap. = to about an additional 4.5 million people flushing raw sewage into Cheasapeake Bay.
Manure becomes pollutant as its volume grows unmanageable (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/28/AR2010022803978.html)

Yep I stand behind that! Comms do most of the damage and you will not change my mind on that! Personally I agree with Piemma and it would not bother me one bit to do away with the commercial season!

also NO more fishing with artifical plugs too!!only biodegradable worms and barbless hooks... plus no one can touch keep, or w/o rose color glasses look at bass.....heres how i c it 1.2 million lbs for the comm. hoars. who sell for money those sinners and 13.5 million for the rec pigs who always keep more than need.and barroom bounce the 40lber they caught right into the dumpster. imo at lease i respecept the value of the fish. chew on that knot a while:jump1:

This thread is the Prime example of what the real problem is....nobody can get there %$%$%$%$e together and get on the same page.

These threads pop up every few months and they always follow the same Template..

"My way is the Right way, your way is the wrong way, and its the other guys fault"

Maybe if you guys changed the template to read...

"I have some ideas that with the addition of your ideas, and if we both accept responsibilty for the issue, may be able to fix this"

In all honesty the only way to make sure that Striped Bass thrive....is to take up golf.

I am just amazed at the level of stupidity being displayed by ASMFC



"on November 9th the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission will vote on on the proposal to expand the coastal commercial quota for striped bass. Stripers Forever is strongly opposed to this idea on all grounds. Here are the states that voted in favor of this commercial expansion in past meetings:


North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, New York, Rhode Island, Connecticut


The vote in favor was 10 to 6, so we need to change two votes in order for the increase to be denied - other districts and organizations have votes also.

I've been following this closely, and have stayed in direct contact with Nichola Meserve, the Fisheries Management Plan Coordinator for striped bass, since the hearings on this subject which I know some of you attended.

Despite which side of the table you're on, I think it's important to point out that what you read above is not exactly true. On November 9th, the ASMFC Management Board will be reviewing the public comment received (which I'll touch on below), and make their descision. Individual states have no vote in their decision. The states mentioned above simply voted in favor of sending the proposed Ammendment II to Article 6 to the ASMFC Technical Committe, Management board, and public comment.

If the ASMFC decides to allow commercial increase (which is only one of the issues on the table here), THEN each state will have the option of either implementing the allowed increase or not.

In other words, if they DO decide to allow an increase in the coastal commercial quota, there will then be work to be done on a state by state level as each state will have to decide if they will change their regulations to use the allowed increase or not.

Here is Ms. Meserve's email to me, after the close of the public comment period, when I asked for her feelings of the general consensus of the public comments received.



SubjectRe: Question - Striped Bass Draft Addendum II
Sendernmeserve@asmfc.org (nmeserve@asmfc.org)
Recipientjake@stripercoastsurfcasters.us (jake@stripercoastsurfcasters.us)
Date15.10.2010 11:29

Hi Jacob,

You have excellent timing, as I just finished summarizing the comments yesterday. Including comments received at hearings and via mail/email/fax, the total count is over 2200 comments. The vast majority of comments supported Option 1- Status Quo for Issue 1- Coastal Commercial Quotas, and Option 2- Revise the Definition for Issue 2 - Recruitment Failure Definition. A public comment summary with the tally by state and in total, along with the reasons given in support of the options will be included in the Management Board's briefing materials, which should be available on the ASMFC website within 1-2 weeks. The Management Board will meet on November 9 to review the comment and vote on the options in the draft addendum.

Regards,
Nichola

Nichola Meserve
Fisheries Management Plan Coordinator
Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission
ph: (202) 289-6400 f: (202) 289-6051

And do not give me the crap that the recreational fishermen bring in dollars to motels, restauarants, etc:

Charter boats do the same thing, they bring in monies to motels, restaurants etc. too, guess what, charter boats are commercial fishing, they receive money.

But the take of charter and party boats is NOT counted toward the commercial quota. They are considered recreational by the ASMFC, and their take is counted as recreational take. In the eyes of the ASMFC, charter & party boats are merely providing transportation. The fishing is done by recreation fishermen and the fish are not sold to a fish market, therefore the insane amount of fish taken each year by charter & party boats goes on the rec tab.

Let's change this as well. :)

If you feel that the striped bass population is in trouble - Conservation is in YOUR hands. Release the fish that you are not taking to eat and dont participate in kill tournaments.
Look in the mirror before looking elsewhere

I think the bass is in a lot more trouble (on several fronts than the scientists think.

Personally I have given this a lot of thought and my own view is that we should

a) reduce rec to 1 fish (any length...simple effective, min kill)
b) no comm activity.
c) push hard to replenish bait stocks coast-wide.

I really think this would rebuild the fishery and maintain the economic strength that rec fishing produces.

Basically I am in support of game-fish status because it basically does this minimal fuss, granted game fish does nothing to improve bait stocks but at least it addresses a and b.

If you feel that the striped bass population is in trouble - Conservation is in YOUR hands. Release the fish that you are not taking to eat and dont participate in kill tournaments.
Look in the mirror before looking elsewhere

Right on... Where's that 'Like' button ;)

But, when you're done looking in the mirror, then help educate others, and stand up for what you believe in. :)

I find it hard to believe that someone catches 2 keepers every time he goes fishing
:fishin::rotf2:.

Yes, this has been covered once or twice. Short version is we can continue to yell at each other and watch a fishery get mismanaged (and / or sucked up in other battles), or we can all step up to the plate and take a meaningful cut. Otherwise we will be continuing to use the process of urination to determine wind direction and velocity.

We can continue to argue over WHO gets to the keep the fish OR we can start to plan and discuss HOW to save the fish.

This will be an interesting vote. In New England states "Overwhelming" public comment was against a commercial increase. Will they listen? If not I anticipate more support to "legislate" changes to striped bass management. Especially now that recs will be licensed. Just my opinion.

DZ

If you feel that the striped bass population is in trouble - Conservation is in YOUR hands. Release the fish that you are not taking to eat and dont participate in kill tournaments.
Look in the mirror before looking elsewhere

...and don't each large scale commercially raised chicken. It isn't just runoff from dairies in PA and NY, it is the disaster of a waste problem from the chicken houses in the bay states.

as far as the bait goes... I saw more herring this spring than in 10 years in my local river. There has been tons of adult bunker in W. LI sound over the last few years. Last night I caught schoolie after schoolie in spot loaded with bait. Not that I think the bait isn't a problem.



What if the striper stocks need to be carefully culled to allow for fewer fish that are bigger and healthier? take some pressure off the herring and other bait. Or reduce competition amongst stripers.

The problem is too complicated for us mere mortals.

One thing about charters is that they can offer a C&R trip as opposed to everyone limiting out. All they have to do is mention it and maybe a quick explanation of why C&R is a good idea. They wouldn't have to force it down the fares throats or anything. I would bet there would be a decent response. Even one fare a year taking that option is a plus.

I have spoken to a few captains about this and the majority make no mention. Some do occasionally. The problem is that if they don't then they are pretty much looking short term. If the health of the fishery dictates the health of the business you would think a future outlook should have been in the business plan to begin with.


The problem with educating other fishermen about this is that the ones that are all over the boards are not the ones to preach to. It is the guys on the beach that don't bother with the internet or those new to the sport. The guys on here and every other site out there has seen and heard these stories already.

The fishermen you see on the beach that have short bass or two or more bass most likely know the rules and they don't care. You can tell by the way they run back to the truck each time they catch a bass or scurry away when the DEC officer comes by. Educating these people is important but they probably don't really care.

The newcomers to the sport should learn all of this from the get go. Give them the whole story and let them make up their mind. I am pretty sure that most rec guys here and all comm guys agree the recs should be taking less fish. There is a level ground starting point. After that is done we will fight over the newbies about gamefish status.

What if the striper stocks need to be carefully culled to allow for fewer fish that are bigger and healthier? take some pressure off the herring and other bait. Or reduce competition amongst stripers.

The problem is too complicated for us mere mortals.

Man, how did the striper stocks ever manage to exist before man came around to "carefully cull" them out?

I hear people mention nonsense like this a lot. "We need to kill more stripers so the bait can rebound." Nature was fine for millions of years before we came around and effed with it and it'll be fine again in another million years when we're extinct.

who here would be in support of an outright ban on all fishing for stripers for 5 years? no one targets them.

who here would be in support of an outright ban on all fishing for stripers for 5 years? no one targets them.

I'd be in favor of a strict catch and release fishery. No take at all.

The things are so packed with PCBs and mercury that we shouldn't be eating them anyway.

who here would be in support of an outright ban on all fishing for stripers for 5 years? no one targets them.

That's a completely unrealistic notion.

All good points but I think it was Afterhours who said it best. Give the bass gamefish status and make the limit 1 fish a day. I believe in the 36" or 34" and saw it work in the 80s and early 90s.

In any event, just to reiterate:

Game fish status
No commercial season ....ever
1 fish a day for the recs 34 or 36".

I read a post on the "other" site where this guys bragged that he fishes almost everyday and takes his limit of fish everyday. So if it's 100 days and he takes 2 fish a day then he kills 200 28"+ fish every year. What the hell does he do with that many fish? The man is an idiot and should be banned from this sport.

One other point. I know that there are many guys on this site that are comm. I did it myself in the 70s but it was gas money and bait money and equipment money. It wasn't "make a living money". I have no problem with guys who make a living on the water. I just think the Striped Bass is too valuable of a resource to wantonly slaughtered for commercial or even recreational reasons.

During the moritorium, we that were hard core kept fishing even though we could not keep anything. If you do this thing of ours because you love it, then it doesn't matter if you kill anything. I personally caught well over 200 legal Bass this year. I killed exactly 2 fish that were gut hooked.

We need to apply some sanity or it will be the 80s all over again.

boat or surf???

If you feel that the striped bass population is in trouble - Conservation is in YOUR hands. Release the fish that you are not taking to eat and dont participate in kill tournaments.
Look in the mirror before looking elsewhere

oooooohhhhh, good one!!

I say RAISE it. CHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIng

I say RAISE it. CHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIng

Until the stock crashes again, and no cha-ching for years or ever.
that's the mentality that drove it into the ground the last time.

fail.

Don't blame the new school blame the old school
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Recreational fishermen kill a boatload more fish than commercial guys do. WE ARE THE PROBLEM!!!!!! That being said, there is no way we should allow a rise in the commercial take. Both sides should lower their limits

A personal friend of mine, Steve Howell is a trailer boat captain: Doubled Up Charters. He commercial fishes stripers in season; in fact, I host him with a bed and a shower whenever he needs as he is from Paxton. (I do this despite the fact I am opposed to the entire entity of a striped bass commercial fishery). His "take" for the season was: 37 stripers that went OVER 40 pounds! VERY FEW of these, and many other fish harvested by him were killed and recorded during the commercial season.

Tell me: Isn't the so-called Recreational Fisherman killing the fish really just the same Commercial Fisherman outside the Commercial Season?

Very very few so-called Recreational Fishermen have the expertise or the opportunity that Capt. Steve does. This is not a Recreational Fisherman! There are many many like him, and they need to be brought out from hiding.

A personal friend of mine, Steve Howell is a trailer boat captain: Doubled Up Charters. He commercial fishes stripers in season; in fact, I host him with a bed and a shower whenever he needs as he is from Paxton. (I do this despite the fact I am opposed to the entire entity of a striped bass commercial fishery). His "take" for the season was: 37 stripers that went OVER 40 pounds! VERY FEW of these, and many other fish harvested by him were killed and recorded during the commercial season.

Tell me: Isn't the so-called Recreational Fisherman killing the fish really just the same Commercial Fisherman outside the Commercial Season?

Very very few so-called Recreational Fishermen have the expertise or the opportunity that Capt. Steve does. This is not a Recreational Fisherman! There are many many like him, and they need to be brought out from hiding.

bought out from hiding!?!? like they are public servants on the take!?!? they are just good bass fishermen,period. I find your post disturbing.....there's a million pound quota in ma......that quota gets filled by folks that are good at catching bass, thats all.....I grew up on the cape......you guys love to talk about rec. vs comm......I'm a fisherman period. sometimes I sell the fish, sometimes I eat the fish and sometimes I let the fish go.......I'm guessing your "buddy" capt. steve is the same way...........

bought out from hiding!?!? like they are public servants on the take!?!? they are just good bass fishermen,period. I find your post disturbing.....there's a million pound quota in ma......that quota gets filled by folks that are good at catching bass, thats all.....I grew up on the cape......you guys love to talk about rec. vs comm......I'm a fisherman period. sometimes I sell the fish, sometimes I eat the fish and sometimes I let the fish go.......I'm guessing your "buddy" capt. steve is the same way...........

hey rob~~

i believe that SRKT is referring to skewed/inaccurate commercial ###'s with respect to the coming increase in their Commercial Quota for 2011.

if the numbers are OFF and we already KNOW that they can be manipulated, then how is the ASMFC supposed to make legitimate regulation? AND i am certain that this has been happening for decades!!

my view is to reduce the take for BOTH! 1 @ 36" for us, ??? millions ##'s less for them. ALSO, we must Fix the Forage!! leave the bunker alone for three yrs!! just my thoughts,,,,,,,,,,

Man, how did the striper stocks ever manage to exist before man came around to "carefully cull" them out?

I hear people mention nonsense like this a lot. "We need to kill more stripers so the bait can rebound." Nature was fine for millions of years before we came around and effed with it and it'll be fine again in another million years when we're extinct.

I am not saying this is what needs to happen, just asking the question. As far as nonsense, I am not sure about that.

You ask how striper stocks managed to survive before humans... Stripers increase , bait decreases; stripers decrease, bait increases. Fewer stripers= more bait.More stripers less bait.

Nature was fine before we effed it up is true. I am not sure how that is related to the current state of fisheries, as we aren't absent from nature in the present. We (humans) harvest eels, crabs, herring, bunker, macks, lobsters, flounder etc. Our activities also make the ecosystem less habitable. Striper numbers increased to record numbers. ALL of the factors have to be considered.

People say fix the bait, which I agree with. It isn't simple. The intent of the points I made was to show there are many possible aspects to management.

JD- when you say "nonsense" do you mean you completely dismiss the idea that a reduced striper population would increase the amount of organisms preyed on by stripers? That seems hard to substantiate.

JD- when you say "nonsense" do you mean you completely dismiss the idea that a reduced striper population would increase the amount of organisms preyed on by stripers? That seems hard to substantiate.

When I say "nonsense", it's with regards to the whole concept of "kill more bass so the bait fish can come back" being beneficial to any fishery. Like I said before, nature did a pretty good job finding an equilibrium in the millions of years before man. I don't agree with your idea that "stripers increase, bait decreases; stripers decrease, bait increases". There are far too many factors.

Maybe instead of culling out bass to help increase the bait population we get rid of indiscriminate fishing methods like the trawlers and get stop companies like Omega Protein form decimating full populations of the bait.

JD- I think we are probably exactly on the same page. I don't think we should kill more bass either. I would like to see a 1 fish limit and reduced commercial harvest. As far as what the rec. size limit should be... I do think there is something to a slot limit which will target the take to certain ages of the population and increased male mortality, decreased female mortality, and decreased competition within certain age classes. What we know about populations is that more prey and less competition leads to healthier individuals and populations as a whole. The population in the Chesapeake is certainly exposed to terrible conditions. A smaller, but stronger and healthier population may be better able to thrive and prevent the collapse that seems imminent. It could lead to more big fish in the end. The scrawny, weak, diseased population at present seems just ripe for collapse. These aren't my personal ideas, but I have heard the arguments and I can't dismiss them.

The best evidence for 1 @36" is that it worked last time. I just wonder if it worked because the population dynamics were so different. There were hardly any fish around and few people fishing. Is it the best way with the current state of the striper population? I don't know.

The population in the Chesapeake is certainly exposed to terrible conditions. A smaller, but stronger and healthier population may be better able to thrive and prevent the collapse that seems imminent. It could lead to more big fish in the end. The scrawny, weak, diseased population at present seems just ripe for collapse. These aren't my personal ideas, but I have heard the arguments and I can't dismiss them.

Did you attend the ASMFC hearings? YOY numbers have been terrible relative to the number of spawning females. Up to 70% of the bass in the Chesapeake could potentially be infected with myco with an estimated lifespan of 5 years after infection.

The nice thing about nature is that only the strong survive. Without humans messing around, an equilibrium is always found. The weak die out and the strong get stronger.

hey rob~~

i believe that SRKT is referring to skewed/inaccurate commercial ###'s with respect to the coming increase in their Commercial Quota for 2011.

if the numbers are OFF and we already KNOW that they can be manipulated, then how is the ASMFC supposed to make legitimate regulation? AND i am certain that this has been happening for decades!!

my view is to reduce the take for BOTH! 1 @ 36" for us, ??? millions ##'s less for them. ALSO, we must Fix the Forage!! leave the bunker alone for three yrs!! just my thoughts,,,,,,,,,,

I don't believe those numbers to be off and howv would one manage such a event with a fishery thats eyeballed by millions of people and citizens........

imo....... most of u rec fisherman would not last a wk fishing for money. your the greatest when the bites on ,but hows your skills when its off ???? will u fish from dusk to dawn every day 10 ,12 hrs? trust me it aint e-z ,,,b glad if u have a real job.fishing wont make u rich . it will make u feel good and free but not rich.as i c it the rec fisherman KILLS 10 times the bass as the comm , if u flag wavering dopes would relize that you could help .stop pointing the finger of guilt ,, just look in a mirror ... chesse bay cond are a huge prob.thats it i,m done stop your crying its a long winter..:fishin:

imo....... most of u rec fisherman would not last a wk fishing for money. your the greatest when the bites on ,but hows your skills when its off ???? will u fish from dusk to dawn every day 10 ,12 hrs? trust me it aint e-z ,,,b glad if u have a real job.fishing wont make u rich . it will make u feel good and free but not rich.as i c it the rec fisherman KILLS 10 times the bass as the comm , if u flag wavering dopes would relize that you could help .stop pointing the finger of guilt ,, just look in a mirror ... chesse bay cond are a huge prob.thats it i,m done stop your crying its a long winter..:fishin:

are YOU SHEETIN', ME??

i would embrace the opportunity to fish for a living~~~
if there was a C&R Pro Circuit for Stripers!!
:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:


and nobody is pointing a finger of guilt solely at anybody,
most of us are saying that there needs to be a reduction for BOTH!!

and i think the "crying" to which you are referring is FOR the AC Menhaden, who sadly have no voice!
why not use dogfish for bug bait? and leave the pogies alone, let them rebound for 3 yrs!!

i would LOVE to sea the return of The Great Silver Balls, INSHORE!!!
SUUUUX, that i can only read about that phenomena that used to be the norm. and, AGREED, we as a peoples/terrible stewards have done MUCH to destroy our beloved species' habitat.

certainly there are sacrifices to be made ACROSS the BOARD!! do you suppose that we'll EVER get Purdue, the CClubs along the Hudson, and the rest of the landlubbing polluters to admit ~much more DO anything~ that they are a huge part of the equation??

i appreciate your angle Stifftip, it is important that we hear ALL sides.
:grins: :grins: :grins:

I feel like a child now.

I have word from an inside source that the ASMFC Management Board has voted in today's meeting AGAINST increasing the coastal Commercial Striped Bass Quota. Just FYI.... :)

:).....it's a start.

I have word from an inside source that the ASMFC Management Board has voted in today's meeting AGAINST increasing the coastal Commercial Striped Bass Quota. Just FYI.... :)

It is a fact. The increase in the commercial quota was voted down.

good news (for once)

Except in Rhode Island and New York!

Except in Rhode Island and New York!

but that doenst mean that RI and NY can increase the quota does it? The overall decision was a no?

but that doenst mean that RI and NY can increase the quota does it? The overall decision was a no?

Overall decision was NO increase. Several states voted for an increase: RI, NY, DE, NC but the majority - and thus the final ruling - was for status quo (no increase).

Sooooooo.............does that mean the states that voted for the increase will not be increasing their quota?????:confused: Is it a blanket decision or by state?

Any solution that affects only coms or recs is just not smart. It will get beaten down as selfish by the opposite group. You have to include both in any solution.

To me , a reduction to 1 fish a day for recs would be fair. You can play around with the size but 1 fish a day is enough. You go fishing , you get to take one home if you catch it. That satisfies a lot of issues for recs.

Commercial also needs to give. I think its crazy that any form of fishing does not have to keep and sell anyfinfish they get as a bicatch. If you catch it in a net , it is almost 100 percent sure to die so you must find a home for it. This means a big difference in wasted dead fish and also a big difference in what's reported towards the commercial quota.

I also think there is nothing we can do about changing the way farmers a hundred miles or more fertilize , etc. Its too bad because its a major issue but these guys are farmers , not fisherman and they will not cooperate with anything that will drop the yield from their farms , especially the relatively small farms in PN where a lot of the high nutrient run off comes from.

Anyway , there are many specifics but the surest way to make sure your opinion is not taken seriously is to try to pin the blame and burden of the solution on "the other guys". Unless your idea deals with both Comms and Recs you bring discredit to your side and you are part of the problem when trying to get both sides to use the fishery responsibly.

Sooooooo.............does that mean the states that voted for the increase will not be increasing their quota?????:confused: Is it a blanket decision or by state?

no increase