Ok who's watching it and what do you think? I've been watching the last couple of episodes and it's pretty good IMO. What a beautiful place. I have to get out there someday. Mods, place this wherever as this could go in any direction. I find the commercial salmon fishery very interesting. Pretty cool.

she can have her self edited on film when she goofs up
(by hubby Todd)
there ain't no way to do that on live TV as a president

she won't interview with Katie Couric again !
because she asks just the right questions
that are way to smart for her to answer

I have seen it a few times and liked it. Absolutely stunning footage. Wish she'd leave her political comments out though. It seems to me a way to stuff it in the face of people who have ridiculed her with a backdrop of pretty scenery. Just based on the few comments I've seen.

Amazing place, minor Palin infomercial aside, stunning footage.

It's about as absurdly contrived as any reality show and yes, the scenery is quite nice.

-spence

It's about as absurdly contrived as any reality show and yes, the scenery is quite nice.

-spence

Its better than watching the Kardashians!

Besides all the guys wanted to meet Mr. Palin, he is a GD legend up there.

I'd rather watch Alaska State Trooper show on NGC. You still get amazing footage and you don't have to listen to her cackle.

Alaska is beautiful, she makes me want to puke.

Ok who's watching it and what do you think? I've been watching the last couple of episodes and it's pretty good IMO. What a beautiful place. I have to get out there someday. Mods, place this wherever as this could go in any direction. I find the commercial salmon fishery very interesting. Pretty cool.

If you find the salmon fishery interesting then buy Red Gold.

Screw Palin.

Alaska is beautiful, she makes me want to puke.

Thank you, I'm glad someone said it

she needs to practice her casting.

I have been watching but must admit for someone who is so "outdoorsy" she seems very awkward in some situations thus far, which is a little disappointing. Other than that I watch because of the concept of the show which I like.....and yes Todd is the man! :love:

she needs to practice her casting.

And shooting and everything else she claims to do.

Screw Palin.



:yak5:

not even with yours....

I'd rather watch Alaska State Trooper show on NGC. You still get amazing footage and you don't have to listen to her cackle.

Alaska is beautiful, she makes me want to puke.

These 2 posts sum it up for me.

Its better than watching the Kardashians!

I'd MUCH rather look at Kim Kardashian than Sarah Palin anyday.....Don't care about the Locale

The difference is, she is raking in 200 thou an episode. How long do you need to work to equal that, as she smiles making a deposit at the bank?

So far I have not watched an episode, I did want to see the halibut one tho.

Alaska is beautiful, she makes me want to puke.

Agree , BUT , Barney Frank makes her look like the Queen of England in my book :grins:

Any woman that shoots a .460 Weatherby Magnum on Alaskan Moose and Elk hunts is ok in my book, regardless of her political views. I consider that pretty "outdoorsy".

:yak5:

not even with yours....

Booger's shiny head might plug that hole. :rotf2:

:yak5:

not even with yours....

hay i,d take a poke at her:love:, than i,d teach her how to use the fly pole:jump1:

Alaska is beautiful, she makes me want to puke.

Thank you, I'm glad someone said it

Must be nice to afford a life style where you can walk out your front door, down to your dock and board a float plane for a fishing trip.......I'm lucky to get my favorite casting rock one out of twenty trips down to the canal.............:rollem:

2nd Alaskan State Troopers.

Must be nice to afford a life style where you can walk out your front door, down to your dock and board a float plane for a fishing trip.......I'm lucky to get my favorite casting rock one out of twenty trips down to the canal.............:rollem:

its not nice, its called work and sacrifice. Nothing was given to her. Check the media and the above posts, most cant stand her.
How many VP candidates vanished into nothingness? She took her chances and now can reap the rewards. Never hold someones success against them

the only reason she is reaping anything is she is a fairly good looking female. If she was an ugly old bat no one would care.

its not nice, its called work and sacrifice. Nothing was given to her. Check the media and the above posts, most cant stand her.
How many VP candidates vanished into nothingness? She took her chances and now can reap the rewards. Never hold someones success against them

where did I say I was?????

the only reason she is reaping anything is she is a fairly good looking female. If she was an ugly old bat no one would care.

come on Paul, everywhere I look in the stores this year is Susan Boyle.....:smash:

Alaska is beautiful, she makes me want to puke.

What is it about her that makes you want to puke? The fact that she loves the outdoors, or the fact that she loves her husband and kids, or the fact that she had the compassion to give birth to a baby with Downs, or the fact that she raised her son to love his country enough to serve in the Army, or do you hate the fact that she had enough integrity to expose political corruption even in her own party?

Or is it her politics you hate? Do you hate the fact that she thinks unborn babies have the right to live, or the fact the she wants to kill terrorists, or the fact that she believes in low taxes, or the fact that she wants to keep the feds out of your face as much as possible?

Maybe you buy into the notion that she's stupid, because she has said some dumb things on camera? Well, Obama has been caught on film saying there are 57 states in the US, and that Europe is a country...but he gets a pass. And Joe Biden has put his foot in his mouth enough times to keep the writers at Saturday Night Live busy for the next decade.

I am a conservative who would never vote for Gov Palin in a primary, IO have my reasons. But all the personal hatred ticks me off. Unlike most politicians, she was not born rich. From humble beginnings, she became the best governor in the entire country (based on the fact that she had the highest approval ratings of any governor). As governor, she lowered taxes, balanced the budget, and did all that without hurting her state's economy. That sounds pretty good to me. Maybe you know politicians who have done better?

the only reason she is reaping anything is she is a fairly good looking female. If she was an ugly old bat no one would care.

Professor, the woman came from very modest beginnings. She exposed significant political corruption in her own party, got elected governor, and had the highest approval ratings of any governor in the country. She did amazing things for Alaska's economy.

Before the smear campaign, the people of Alaska loved her...her approval ratings were about double what Obama's are now. Maybe she wasn't Omama's classmate at Harvard. But somewhere along the way, she (unlike Obama) learned a few things, like the fact that you can't spend what you don't have, and that you can't make terrorists like us, so we need to kill them.

How about the fact that she freely chose to give birth to a baby with Downs, knowing all the challenges that brings? Does she get any points with you for that?

And yes, she is hot. Anyone who makes conservatism sexy, in addition to being obviously superior to liberalism, is OK in my book.

Professor, do yourself a favor, and turn off MSNBC for 5 minutes.

When I was in Alaska, I saw alot of cars with this bumper sticker. "Alaska...Coldest state, hottest governor".

And everyone should see Alaska. I have video of my wife and I salmon fishing with brown bears in the water behind her, pulling salmon out of the water (Katmai Nat'l Park). It's a spectacular place.

Yeah that about seems it up, she is not alone in my makes me want to puke list though, pretty much all politicians make me feel that way. Glad you enjoy following politics, me I'd rather watch grass grow.

What is it about her that makes you want to puke? The fact that she loves the outdoors, or the fact that she loves her husband and kids, or the fact that she had the compassion to give birth to a baby with Downs, or the fact that she raised her son to love his country enough to serve in the Army, or do you hate the fact that she had enough integrity to expose political corruption even in her own party?

Or is it her politics you hate? Do you hate the fact that she thinks unborn babies have the right to live, or the fact the she wants to kill terrorists, or the fact that she believes in low taxes, or the fact that she wants to keep the feds out of your face as much as possible?

Maybe you buy into the notion that she's stupid, because she has said some dumb things on camera? Well, Obama has been caught on film saying there are 57 states in the US, and that Europe is a country...but he gets a pass. And Joe Biden has put his foot in his mouth enough times to keep the writers at Saturday Night Live busy for the next decade.

I am a conservative who would never vote for Gov Palin in a primary, IO have my reasons. But all the personal hatred ticks me off. Unlike most politicians, she was not born rich. From humble beginnings, she became the best governor in the entire country (based on the fact that she had the highest approval ratings of any governor). As governor, she lowered taxes, balanced the budget, and did all that without hurting her state's economy. That sounds pretty good to me. Maybe you know politicians who have done better?

You are one of the few, if not only person that posts on SB that I always agree with.
You think she'd be applauded from coming from a working class background, blue collar family, great family realtionships, career woman balancing priorities - you think she'd be on Oprah with a standing ovation. But nope, her politics and popularity are held against her. We have brilliant female minds like Whoopi Goldberg to look up to!
I would NOT vote for her, but I have tremendous respect for her. Ask yourself this. your kids have 2 weeks to spend with a family over the summer. WHo would you choose, Barak Obama, Hillary Clinton or Sarah Palin? Its a no brainer for me. They'd have a blast with the Palin's and learn a ton.
And honestly, would any of you trust Bill Clinton with your daughters?

You are one of the few, if not only person that posts on SB that I always agree with.
You think she'd be applauded from coming from a working class background, blue collar family, great family realtionships, career woman balancing priorities - you think she'd be on Oprah with a standing ovation. But nope, her politics and popularity are held against her. We have brilliant female minds like Whoopi Goldberg to look up to!
I would NOT vote for her, but I have tremendous respect for her. Ask yourself this. your kids have 2 weeks to spend with a family over the summer. WHo would you choose, Barak Obama, Hillary Clinton or Sarah Palin? Its a no brainer for me. They'd have a blast with the Palin's and learn a ton.

You're right. In addition to all I mentioned, she also raised her kids without any domestic help, and her family is obviously very close-knit.

The irationality of the hatred against her is unbelievable to me. If you want to disagree with her politics, that's fair. But Palin attacks are almost always personal, never based on issues.

LOL. I have never watched MSNBC before. Don't waste your time trying to debate politics with me. I am sure you are more informed than me. Not a fair fight. I am just a blue collar worker from very modest beginnings plodding along waiting for spring so i can go outside and do what I enjoy. I don't live in Alaska either so I really don't care what she did. Just sick of seeing her face on TV I guess. I did say Alaska in beautiful

Prof M has no skin in this game. He is an innocent bystander that really cant stand Palin from the surface

LOL. I have never watched MSNBC before. Don't waste your time trying to debate politics with me. I am sure you are more informed than me. Not a fair fight. I am just a blue collar worker from very modest beginnings plodding along waiting for spring so i can go outside and do what I enjoy. I don't live in Alaska either so I really don't care what she did. Just sick of seeing her face on TV I guess. I did say Alaska in beautiful

Before you decide that someone makes you want to puke, maybe you should know a little bit about her.

If I had a kid with Downs to take care of, and I knew that kid would need care after I was gone, and someone offered me 50 grand to make an appearance on TV, you bet I'd do it. If someone offered me a fe wmillion to write a book, I'd do it. If someone offered me a couple of million to do that show, I'd do it in a nanosecond. Wouldn't you? If so, you shouldn't criticize her.

Pretty amazing women if you ask me. A lot of kids in this country should have a mother (/family) like her.
That said, I think the show is an obvious infomercial trying to inform the public about her life, because up till now the liberal media has told you what they want you to hear. This sort of bypasses them and it pisses them off. (Ie. instead of trying to trap her(and embarrass) with questions she does not have an answer to right off the top of her head in front of a lot of people)

Alaska is a beautiful state that few have seen. She was a good state leader and a person with good values. I think she probably would not make the best president but I would like to see her in a significant role in the federal government.

The media today sucks. They can embarrass anyone to the point of not running. And I think it limits us as a country because great leaders will not step up (or should I say step in?) for the job.

If I had my choice for 2012 it would be Mitt Romney / Bill Frist. These two guys can both lead, and Bill knows the REAL heath care issues better than anyone in the US. But I doubt that this will happen...mainly because of the media.

She was a good state leader

Until she quit halfway through her term to be a celebrity.

Until she quit halfway through her term to be a celebrity.

Now THAT is a valid, legitimate dig against her. I was very disappointed when she quit.

The media today sucks. They can embarrass anyone to the point of not running. And I think it limits us as a country because great leaders will not step up (or should I say step in?) for the job.

Bingo....there is no truer statement than that :uhuh:

I said she makes me want to puke not that I hated her, I don't really hate anyone, well Yankee fans are pretty close. You are probably a Yankee fan right? Oh boy I guess I am off your xmas list. TBO I really don't have an educated opinion on her politics. I don't follow politics and offered my opinion on vomiting not even considering her political affiliation. I personally have just seen enough of her. If I want to see Alaska I'll watch the Nat Geo channel. I tried to watch an episode and I couldn't make it thru the whole thing. She ruined it for me. That is why I said what i said. For the record i 'm not an Oprah or Whoppie fan either. I am entitled to my opinion as you are. I guess this is why I never get involved with these type of discussion's on line. 2 people with different feelings. Let it be that . You don't have to sell me on her. I don't dislike you because you feel that way. Your probably a great guy. I don't really care to know anything about her. Good for her for overcoming all her obstacles in life and being a great governor. I am just sick of seeing her on the TV, along with Lindsey Lowhan, Justin Beiber, Dr. Phil, Oprah, . Just not in to self promoting people I guess.

LOL. I have never watched MSNBC before. Don't waste your time trying to debate politics with me. I am sure you are more informed than me. Not a fair fight. I am just a blue collar worker from very modest beginnings plodding along waiting for spring so i can go outside and do what I enjoy. I don't live in Alaska either so I really don't care what she did. Just sick of seeing her face on TV I guess. I did say Alaska in beautiful

Professor, you shouldn't be watching tv anyways. You should get back to building some more of those awesome plugs you make. Plugfest is coming up and I'm looking forward to seeing some beauties from you. :drool:

Until she quit halfway through her term to be a celebrity.

bridge to nowhere
pebble while lying to the fishermen saying she supports them

NEVER FORGET!

LOL. I just got caught with my foot in my mouth again, won't be the last time either. The gentleman felt like he had to come to her defense for reasons I did not think about when I made my puke editorial. He had his say and I had mine. As far as the political aspect of this discussion goes, which I never considered, send it to the forum that I never venture too and you guys can beat it to death with fellow fisherman that are way more informed than I . It will much more challenging and you will have a much better time than sparing with a dim wit like me. I think i'll go look at Katy Perry's breast's again. Happy Holiday's.

Until she quit halfway through her term to be a celebrity.

You gotta do what you gotta do. She felt that she had to do this to combat the foes aimed solely at personal destruction. Clearly she is going to run in the primary, and this gives her more positive face time than she would have gotten from MSNBC. Besides, she is smart...she is taking advantage of America's insane love of reality shows...she is getting an audience.

You gotta do what you gotta do. She felt that she had to do this to combat the foes aimed solely at personal destruction. Clearly she is going to run in the primary, and this gives her more positive face time than she would have gotten from MSNBC. Besides, she is smart...she is taking advantage of America's insane love of reality shows...she is getting an audience.

I hope she doesn't run. I think the perfect job for her would be head of the Republican National Committee...she gets people excited, she gets people to show up, and for darn sure she raises money.

If she ran today, I think she'd win the primary and lose the general to Obama. If the economy doesn't get worse, I don't think she can beat him. If the economy does what I'm afraid it's going to do (take a big step towards Greece, because inflation can only go up, interest rates can only go up, housing prices can only go down, Israel is about to attack Iran) she will win. If unemployment and mortgage rates are both at 11.5%, and the Dow is at 6,000, she wins.

And I just liked the scenery and thought her family was pretty interesting! :biglaugh: Good posts here though! I thought her husbands fishing business was interesting to. I never knew they fished for salmon like that out there. The halibut trip was a little dissapointing though and kinda boring. Though I did laugh a little when she was in the hold icing down the fish and she was getting a little sick from it. :yak5: I'm not sure I'm as in love with her as some guys are though. I think she is attractive and smarter than given credit for. What a great country we live in!:uhuh:

the only reason she is reaping anything is she is a fairly good looking female. If she was an ugly old bat no one would care.

yeah, Hillary would agree with that statement

Ever since she passed the bill to dump the toxic waste in one of the Alaskan lakes and claimed it would be better for the fisheries I hate her and always will.If I did manage took get up in that.Donkey punch for sure.Maybe twice.Everything that she says is a lie and this is all a big show leading up to something bigger.Look at the wall and read the damn writing.I'd rather watch anyone else explore Alaska and all it has to offer.Even though if they could they would separate from the US if they had a say.:wall:

I think it's reasonable that she can't be a total dunce as she did become Gov before she hit the spotlight.

That being said, had she not had looks it's fair to assume she wouldn't have been picked for McCain's gamble.

Had she not been thrust into the spotlight, it's fair to assume we wouldn't even know who she was.

Today we have Palin's Alaska, Bristol on DWTS and Levi in Playgirl.

I say good for them.

But to think Palin's current position in the GOP is about HER STRENGTH is absurd. She's being used by the media as a novelty and the GOP is laughing all the way to the bank.

-spence

Ever since she passed the bill to dump the toxic waste in one of the Alaskan lakes and claimed it would be better for the fisheries I hate her and always will.If I did manage took get up in that.Donkey punch for sure.Maybe twice.Everything that she says is a lie and this is all a big show leading up to something bigger.Look at the wall and read the damn writing.I'd rather watch anyone else explore Alaska and all it has to offer.Even though if they could they would separate from the US if they had a say.:wall:

But she went fishing! :rotf2:

Such a scam artist.

Puck Febble.

Funny part is with this and the last election she may be the ist female presidential candidate that might be someone to look at. Ilooked at her political record up there an she's a sight better than the bozo in the white house right now. Plus she can prove she came from here.

I knew it was inevitable......I cast ye into the Pit of Despair.

I knew it was inevitable......I cast ye into the Pit of Despair.

Spence is right, fortunate timing for her....she hit a home run with her first National appearance and has been fueled by BOTH those that hate her and those that love her ever since....

does this inject some new blood into the political forum?....

...............old blood havin fun....

don't want a cranky female President.... like her

one with vision and POWER yes


she's to much of a Mommy dearest

we could use a few new bloods to replace those that Spence unleashed his brain on and chased away forever :rotf2:

P. be careful, don't get sucked in, remember what happened to me on TMOA
plug swap. :huh: I shoulda listenend to you. :hihi: :D
Now listen to me. :buds:

LOL . Hey Dave always great to hear from you.Yes Dave. Every once in a while I post something in this forum and then very soon after I realize I am not in Kansas anymore and I am exposed for the nit wit I really am.:confused: I am heeding your warning. I am out of my element here. It's a pretty scary place.. I only look in here once in a while, but I'm usually just peeking. I thought i would be ok because this didn't start in here it was on the main fishing forum where I feel comfortable but I should have know it was just a sting operation and I got bagged. I'll stick to music where I can just delete anything I don't like.:uhuh: Have a great X mas Dave. P.

LOL . Hey Dave always great to hear from you.Yes Dave. Every once in a while I post something in this forum and then very soon after I realize I am not in Kansas anymore and I am exposed for the nit wit I really am.:confused: I am heeding your warning. I am out of my element here. It's a pretty scary place.. I only look in here once in a while, but I'm usually just peeking. I thought i would be ok because this didn't start in here it was on the main fishing forum where I feel comfortable but I should have know it was just a sting operation and I got bagged. I'll stick to music where I can just delete anything I don't like.:uhuh: Have a great X mas Dave. P.

Too funnie, ya, an addictive sting operation. :D
Merry Christmas to you and your family too, P.

LOL . Hey Dave always great to hear from you.Yes Dave. Every once in a while I post something in this forum and then very soon after I realize I am not in Kansas anymore and I am exposed for the nit wit I really am.:confused: I am heeding your warning. I am out of my element here. It's a pretty scary place.. I only look in here once in a while, but I'm usually just peeking. I thought i would be ok because this didn't start in here it was on the main fishing forum where I feel comfortable but I should have know it was just a sting operation and I got bagged. I'll stick to music where I can just delete anything I don't like.:uhuh: Have a great X mas Dave. P.


:rotf2::rotf2: I feel the same way in this forum. I promise i wasn't trying to expose you here!

:biglaugh: No problem I took the bait hook, line an sinker. You set me up. I'm just waiting for Conn. Jim to come into the music forum and say he doesn't like some musician's style. Then I can show what a real moron I am. With my luck he is probably a closet music aficionado and I'll be humbled again, but no one will ever see it because I got the inside track:uhuh:

Ever since she passed the bill to dump the toxic waste in one of the Alaskan lakes and claimed it would be better for the fisheries I hate her and always will.If I did manage took get up in that.Donkey punch for sure.Maybe twice.Everything that she says is a lie and this is all a big show leading up to something bigger.Look at the wall and read the damn writing.I'd rather watch anyone else explore Alaska and all it has to offer.Even though if they could they would separate from the US if they had a say.:wall:

It was the Army Corp of Engineers that approved the dumping of mining debris into Slate Lake in Alaska, "not Sarah Palin."

First of all you should hate the Bush Administration, it was his administration that re-defined mining debris in2002 including toxic mining waste as fill. The word "Fill" took away disposal decisions from the Environmental Protection Agency to the Army Corp of Engineers. And when the Supreme Court weighed in they ruled in favor of the Corp. This ruling also cleared the way for mountain top mining in the Appalachian states.

And on another note, the person you helped to become your president does not have any better credentials then Palin.

And on another note, the person you helped to become your president does not have any better credentials then Palin.
Aside from the legal qualification, which they both meet/met, the rest is highly subjective.

I think their political careers are somewhat of a wash. Palin gets a few points for limited executive experience as Gov, but there's not much beyond that. Obama has more years in the US Senate and IL House, but without much of note.

Academically Palin's a dud while Obama enjoys a very impressive resume.

Ultimately though, people are looking for vision, intellect and integrity.

Ideology aside, even in 2008 it was clear that Palin hadn't really put much thought into how the world works and we never got much out of her other than snarky quips. Obama by contrast could discuss policy issues at length and demonstrated the intellectual curiosity that indicated a lot more substance.

So I'd argue that Obama's credentials were really much better. The proof is in the putting...Obama is POTUS and Palin is on reality TV.

God help the GOP if they can't put her in a box come 2012. Republicans need to get back to leadership and legislation and off this pundit led bender they've been on for the past 15 years. When Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin are the thought leadership of your party you've got problems.

-spence

funny how so many Obama voters feel the need to tell the GOP how to be successful :confused:

in "reality"...Obama's a dud:uhuh:

Academically Palin's a dud while Obama enjoys a very impressive resume.-spence

Remember the medical student that went to Harvard, he was not to intelligent.

Agreed. He may be of higher learning and comes from Harvard, does not make him highly intelligent, after all, he needs to use a telepromter, she does not, she does not have to keep putting her head to the podium to read someone else's script either.

The bottom line: I would rather find her pocketbook then his wallet.

Aside from the legal qualification, which they both meet/met, the rest is highly subjective.

I think their political careers are somewhat of a wash. Palin gets a few points for limited executive experience as Gov, but there's not much beyond that. Obama has more years in the US Senate and IL House, but without much of note.

Academically Palin's a dud while Obama enjoys a very impressive resume.

Ultimately though, people are looking for vision, intellect and integrity.

Ideology aside, even in 2008 it was clear that Palin hadn't really put much thought into how the world works and we never got much out of her other than snarky quips. Obama by contrast could discuss policy issues at length and demonstrated the intellectual curiosity that indicated a lot more substance.

So I'd argue that Obama's credentials were really much better. The proof is in the putting...Obama is POTUS and Palin is on reality TV.

God help the GOP if they can't put her in a box come 2012. Republicans need to get back to leadership and legislation and off this pundit led bender they've been on for the past 15 years. When Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin are the thought leadership of your party you've got problems.

-spence

Oh, please, Spence...

"I think their political careers are somewhat of a wash. Palin gets a few points for limited executive experience as Gov, but there's not much beyond that."

At the time Obama announced he was running, he had served one half of one term as a US Senator, and in that time, he had done nothing significant. Nothing. You go ahead, and tell us what significant legislagtion Obama authored from 2004-2007.

At the time Palin was picked as VP, she had the highest approval ratings of any governor in the country, which means she was the very best governor in the country. She had exposed significant political corruption in her own party, she lowered taxes, balanced the budget, and got the oil companies to give her citizens a fortune in profit sharing. What did Obama do from 2004-2007 that's better than that?

"Academically Palin's a dud while Obama enjoys a very impressive resume"

Palin has a Bachelors degree from, I think, the University Of Iowa? Obama wwent to Harvard. Bush 43 also went to Harvard, and that didn't keep liberals from claiming he's an idiot, so obviously one's alma mater doesn't necessarily correlate with intelligence. Furthermore, you don't know Obama'a acadmic resume, because unlike most presidents, he refused to make his transcripts public.

"people are looking for vision, intellect and integrity."

Integrity? How about sitting in Rev Wright's church for 20 years, and listening to that racist, anti-American bile? Or Obama admitting that although he didn't know what happened, "it's fair to say the Cambridge police acted stupidly".

More on integrity...as a state senator, Obama actually supported the right of a mother to have her baby killed, after tha baby was born and outside the womb (look up the Born Alive Infants Protection Act, as I am not kidding or exaggerating). Palin, on the other hand, feels that even babies with Down Syndrome deserve to live.

Obama is more slick, more smooth, and more presidential in personna. Palin is a regular American with values that are more reflective of this nation, which like it or not, is center-right.

"Obama by contrast could discuss policy issues at length"

Right. Like his opposition to the surge in Iraq, which everyone but Obama adnmits was a spectacular success.

Put down the Kool Aid for one second please, and look at things objectively.

More on integrity...as a state senator, Obama actually supported the right of a mother to have her baby killed, after tha baby was born and outside the womb (look up the Born Alive Infants Protection Act, as I am not kidding or exaggerating). Palin, on the other hand, feels that even babies with Down Syndrome deserve to live.


He'll put down the kool-aid after you stop regurgitating like a booby with a newborn chick glenn beck bs.

Obama Facing Attacks From All Sides Over Abortion Record - August 18, 2008 - The New York Sun (http://www.nysun.com/national/obama-facing-attacks-from-all-sides-over-abortion/84059/)

Bush 43 also went to Harvard, and that didn't keep liberals from claiming he's an idiot, so obviously one's alma mater doesn't necessarily correlate with intelligence. .


Didn't he go to Yale and almost flunk out?

and got the oil companies to give her citizens a fortune in profit sharing.

so you support socialist agendas?

also she promised the oil companies the north slope and ANWR.
too bad that didn't work out for them.


you don't get something for nothing.

He'll put down the kool-aid after you stop regurgitating like a booby with a newborn chick glenn beck bs.

Obama Facing Attacks From All Sides Over Abortion Record - August 18, 2008 - The New York Sun (http://www.nysun.com/national/obama-facing-attacks-from-all-sides-over-abortion/84059/)

Likwid, did you even read your link? If you want to refute my claim that Obama supported infanticide, you need more than an article quoting Obama as saying "I never supported infanticide".

Obama absolutely did support infanticide as a state senator in IL. Don't take my word for it, and don't take his word for it. How about factcheck.org.

FactCheck.org: Obama and 'Infanticide' (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obama_and_infanticide.html)

A quote...

"We find that, as the NRLC said in a recent statement, Obama voted in committee against the 2003 state bill that was nearly identical to the federal act he says he would have supported. Both contained identical clauses saying that nothing in the bills could be construed to affect legal rights of an unborn fetus."

FACT...in IL, some babies somehow survived abortions. In some cases, the moms told the doctors not to care for those babies, who were allowed to whither and die. On multiple occaasions, proposed bills would have required doctors to care for those babies, and on multiple occasions, Obama worked against those bills, because he was afraid that if those babies were considered "human beings", then that protection might be extended to fetuses in the womb.

He says he would have supported a state bill that looked more like the federal version? WELL, IF THAT'S TRUE, AND HE'S SUCH A GREAT LEGISLATOR, WHY DIDN'T HE WRITE A BILL WHICH HE SAID HE WOULD SUPPORT? Babies were being left to die in agony, and he blocked a bill to protect them because of a provision he didn't like? So why didn't he fix the proposed bill for God's sake?

Give it up, likwid. I do my research first, then I decide what to think. That means I can support my claims when I say things like "Obama supported infanticide".

If you want to insult me, that's easy. If you want to show I'm WRONG, do some more homework.

Didn't he go to Yale and almost flunk out?

Bush got his bachelors degree from Yale, and an MBA at Harvard. I don't know what his grades were. I do know that no one knows for sure if Obama got better grades, because he won't release his transcripts.

That's what I know.

In my opinion, a Harvard alumni isn't necessarily more intelligent than someone who graduated from a public school. We can debate that obviously.

I just get ticked when Obama's supporters point out that he went to Harvard, as i fthat automatically means that makes him smart. Thos esame liberals didn't hesitate to call another Harvard alumn, Bush, an idiot. They want it both ways, and it's inane.

so you support socialist agendas?

also she promised the oil companies the north slope and ANWR.
too bad that didn't work out for them.


you don't get something for nothing.

Likwid, so instead of simply admitting that she actually did some good, you have to ask what you think is a "gotcha" question.

I don't think that Palin's decision to force oil companies to share profits with Alaskan citizens constitutes "socialism", and here's why. As Palin pointed out, that oil is a natural resource on public lands, and as such, it belongs to the citizens of Alaska, it doesn't belong to the oil companies.

But to answer your question, I supoprt socialism to a point, in that I believe that the rich and the strong have a duty to serve the poor an dthe weak. You could argue that my service in the USMC was a form of socialism, because I felt obligated to try to help others.

You might be suprised (since you don't seem to know a lot of facts) that not all conservatives are as cold-hearted as liberals claim. In fact, many studies show that conservatives give way more time and money to charity, than liberals do.

Snack on that...

"you don't get something for nothing"

Tell that to everyone who gets a welfare check in the mail, when they don't have to lift a finger to earn it. Why can't those peoplpe, at least the ones physically able, do somehting like picking up garbage in parks?

I'm not a big fan of Palin in anyway, but I do like the show. Last nights show about hunting with her Dad in the remote areas above the Artic Circle was pretty good. She sure does not appear to have let fame change her much.

Obama by contrast could discuss policy issues at length and demonstrated the intellectual curiosity that indicated a lot more substance.


-spence

Is this the same guy that many said, "if only he had articulated and explained
his programs better to the American People ,he wouldn't have taken the shellacking?

Is this the same guy that many said, "if only he had articulated and explained
his programs better to the American People ,he wouldn't have taken the shellacking?


Exactly. Obama is touted as this brilliant and effective orator, the best speaker since Churchill. Yet those same folks say that the only reason that the GOP won big last month is because Obama didn't clearly tell us why his agenda is what's best for us.

This is a great example of why I say that liberalism is a mental disorder. Obama's supporters don't see any contradiction in what you pointed out, they really don't.

This is a great example of why I say that liberalism is a mental disorder.

Actually, if you were using this term prior to 2005 in public forum's, I'd sue Michal Savage, since he published a book with that very same title....

. Obama by contrast could discuss policy issues at length ...

OK, so here Spence says that Obama is more qualified to be Prez than Palin because he can speak more intelligently on the issues. That sounds reasonable, right?

But here is what Spence said recently about the GOP's victory last month...and I quote directly...

"independents frustrated with Obama's inability to clearly articulate the value of his policies. "

Which is it Spence? Is he someone who can speak eloquently and brilliantly on the political issues? Or is he someone who cannot effectively explain political issues to tens of millions of Americans?

Spence, you are one of those folks who have no limit to how far backwards you will bend over to make up excuses for this guy. He's never wrong, and nothing is ever his fault.

Likwid, so instead of simply admitting that she actually did some good, you have to ask what you think is a "gotcha" question.

I don't think that Palin's decision to force oil companies to share profits with Alaskan citizens constitutes "socialism", and here's why. As Palin pointed out, that oil is a natural resource on public lands, and as such, it belongs to the citizens of Alaska, it doesn't belong to the oil companies.

It was her excuse for allowing drilling in a WILDLIFE REFUGE.

Just like 'making jobs' is her excuse for allowing Pebble.

Yep, make 5 jobs at the cost of 20 ways of life that also provides an income (that has lasted longer and will last longer than the mine will).

BRILLIANT!

Yet those same folks say that the only reason that the GOP won big last month is because Obama didn't clearly tell us why his agenda is what's best for us.



this is a lay up without the fat lip and stitches....

Obama clearly articulated perfectly for the last two years in a way that all of the liberal, enlightened elitists could understand with their heads nodding and noses in the air....

he did not, however, articultate in a way that stupid, scared unenlightened neanderthal rubes could grasp....

guess he has some work to do...

It was her excuse for allowing drilling in a WILDLIFE REFUGE.

Just like 'making jobs' is her excuse for allowing Pebble.

Yep, make 5 jobs at the cost of 20 ways of life that also provides an income (that has lasted longer and will last longer than the mine will).

BRILLIANT!

Likwid, please tell me where there is drilling in a wildlife refuge? I didn't think there was any, but I'm not certain. And if so, what damage has been done?

The pipeline, which delivers oil, runs through wildlife refuges in Alaska. Liberal idiots warned that would decimate the caribou herds, yet the herds are thriving (and now, so is the Alaska economy). That's what you call win-win, and it would not have happened if the Kool Aid-drinkers called the shots. Oil in Alaska has meant that modern schools, airports, and medical clinics were funded in all of the remote communities, vastly improving quality of life.

MMMMMM I wonder what type of degree G Washington had or Lincoln or good old Andy Jackson... We seem to forget that this is supposed to be a democracy, If your a citizen of the United States of America you have the right to run for and hold political office and in some states that's even with a criminal record.Get off your high horses. Some of the stupidest an most narrow minded people out there have so many DEGREE'S and look so good on paper you'd think they could walk on water.On paper don't mean didly when it comes to being a boss and having integrity.You need the back bone to stand up and represent your country not an idioligy or idea.We've lacked that for a while as everyone seems more worried with the world economy instead of ours.Just some input . Ron

Well, she is certainly showing her POTUS credentials on next week's episode when she takes Kate Goslin (THAT Kat Goslin) and her brood camping.. Seriously? What's next? Fishing with Snooki and The Situation?

Well, she is certainly showing her POTUS credentials on next week's episode when she takes Kate Goslin (THAT Kat Goslin) and her brood camping.. Seriously? What's next? Fishing with Snooki and The Situation?

Let me get this straight, I want to make sure I understand. A TV show that shows what a close-knit family the Palins are, that takes place in thwe outdoors, is un-presidential. OK, I actually agree with that.

How about a guy who sits in Rev Wright's church for 20 years? A guy who has a political fundraiser hosted by an admitted, unrepentent terrorist, who put pipe bombs in police cars?

Please tell us how those thiings are more presidential than what Palin is doing.

Jim:
I'm not rehashing the tired debate of Wright and Ayers, and am not in this thread for the Obama vs Palin credentials.

She is a sell-out, period.
She left her office where she was this supposedly great Governor to make money and be a celebrity. She can spin it as it is what she needs to do, I say BS.

She wants a reality show to showcase Alaska, fine, I can deal with that, except then you bring in the queen of trashy, crappy reality TV, Kate Goslin, and expect to be taking seriously? Please.

Some of the stupidest an most narrow minded people out there have so many DEGREE'S and look so good on paper you'd think they could walk on water.On paper don't mean didly when it comes to being a boss and having integrity.You need the back bone to stand up and represent your country not an idioligy or idea.

Yup. If we ever get back to integrity, true representation of the people,no
personal agendas, and common sense, we will be on the road to healing the
divisions.

When Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin are the thought leadership of your party you've got problems.

-spence

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND
Jim:I'm not rehashing the tired debate of Wright and Ayers, and am not in this thread for the Obama vs Palin credentials....then you bring in the queen of trashy, crappy reality TV, Kate Goslin, and expect to be taking seriously? Please..
yes, because relationships with terrorists and America hating radicals tell us absolutely nothing about the character of our President but... Sarah meets Kate...now there's something that we as Americans should be greatly concerned about....pretty interesting :uhuh:
hey, Oprah had Mike Tyson and Al Gore on her show...talk about sleazy, lying dirtbags....she must have no credability with you


let's see...

Rush and Sarah, two people that love America, espouse traditional American values, American exceptionalism and freedoms and adherence to our Constitutional principles

versus

Barack Obama and George Soros

two men with great disdain for America and who wish to transform it into a European Style Socialist Welfare State........

tough call.....

clearly, the democrats don't have any leadership "problems"....right?
I think the word "seething" is being used to describe them this morning :rotf2::rotf2:

she's hot in camo too!

Jim:
I'm not rehashing the tired debate of Wright and Ayers, and am not in this thread for the Obama vs Palin credentials.

She is a sell-out, period.
She left her office where she was this supposedly great Governor to make money and be a celebrity. She can spin it as it is what she needs to do, I say BS.

She wants a reality show to showcase Alaska, fine, I can deal with that, except then you bring in the queen of trashy, crappy reality TV, Kate Goslin, and expect to be taking seriously? Please.

"I'm not rehashing the tired debate of Wright and Ayers, and am not in this thread for the Obama vs Palin credentials."

Let me make sure I got this right. You point out her flaws, which I actually agree with. When I point out that Obama had similar (in my opinion worse) flaws, you dion't want to talk about those because they are "tired" points to you.

That's what liberals do. When you make a valid point, they end the debate. Usually by claiming racism. At least you didn't play that card.

A serious person might try to explain why Obama's associations are less eggregious than Palin's associating with Kate.

If you want to say it's un-presedential to do a reality show, I agree with you, you don't need to convince me. However, I happen to have an easier time swallowing a one-time appearance with Kate Gosselin than a lifelong intimate frienship with Rev Wright, or a long-term political relationship with a would-be mass murderer like Ayers. I think my point i srational and valid, you dismiss it as "tired" without even atempting to address my point.

[QUOTE=Jim in CT;If you want to say it's un-presedential to do a reality show, I agree with you, you don't need to convince me. QUOTE]

is it "un-presidential" or an appropriate display of "POTUS credentials" .... particularly when you are actually "the President" to have sex with an intern in the Oval Office repeatedly ? declare your granny a "typical white person" with racist biases in a National broadcast ?....call the Cambridge Police "stupid" in another National Broadcast? ...just wondering...don't really want to rehash old stuff....but.....you are exactly right Jim....the things that concern and do not concern them are mind boggling...we are on the verge of collapse and some are indignant over Sarah's guest on her little tv show as though she is the threat to our future rather than the radical that they voted for and the jackels that he's intalled in our government...God help us.....

let's do this...for those that are upset about Palin as a Presidential hopeful....


Larry Agran
Jerry Brown
Bill Clinton
Bob Kerrey
Tom Harkin
Paul Tsongas
Douglas Wilder
Tom Laughlin
Eugene McCarthy
Al Gore
Jesse Jackson
John Kerry
Howard Dean
Bill Bradley
Lyndon LaRouche
Al Sharpton
John Edwards
#^&#^&#^&#^& Gephart
Dennis Kucinich
Carol Moseley Braun
Joe Biden
Chris Dodd
Bill Richardson
Mike Gravel?

Which is it Spence? Is he someone who can speak eloquently and brilliantly on the political issues? Or is he someone who cannot effectively explain political issues to tens of millions of Americans?
You're mixing issues here.

As a campaigner, Obama did a very good job of articulating his individual positions on policy...this isn't the same as an Administration controlling a complex political dialogue that influences public opinion.

Spence, you are one of those folks who have no limit to how far backwards you will bend over to make up excuses for this guy. He's never wrong, and nothing is ever his fault.

Clearly then you don't read very well. You just quoted me being critical of Obama and then in almost the same breadth accuse me of fealty.

-spence

How about a guy who sits in Rev Wright's church for 20 years? A guy who has a political fundraiser hosted by an admitted, unrepentent terrorist, who put pipe bombs in police cars?

Please tell us how those thiings are more presidential than what Palin is doing.
Agree, reality TV bothering bears in the wild is akin to talking about Jesus. Excellent point...

-spence

Agreed. He may be of higher learning and comes from Harvard, does not make him highly intelligent, after all, he needs to use a telepromter, she does not, she does not have to keep putting her head to the podium to read someone else's script either.
Obama speaks quite often and quite well on his own. Perhaps there's a dependence or desire for highly refined messages that's distracting...I think that's a reasonable criticism, but to cite it as an intelligence issue doesn't make a lot of sense. There's just too much evidence to the contrary.

Palin of course rarely speaks in sentences longer than will fit on a Tweet, and when in doubt will write secret notes on her hand for reference...what was it again? Energy, Budget Cut, Tax and Lift American Spirits? Man...she much really be speaking from the heart...

-spence

You're mixing issues here.

As a campaigner, Obama did a very good job of articulating his individual positions on policy...this isn't the same as an Administration controlling a complex political dialogue that influences public opinion.

-spence

If he said what he meant, and meant what he said in his campaign,
he shouldn't have a problem in his political dialogue now.

Obama speaks quite often and quite well on his own..

-spence

yeah, that "hostage takers" thing was great...very Presidential..:uhuh:

the good news for ANY future hopeful is that when Obama is done lowering the bar for discourse and denigrating the office, just about ANYone will be a vast improvement...

You're mixing issues here.

As a campaigner, Obama did a very good job of articulating his individual positions on policy...this isn't the same as an Administration controlling a complex political dialogue that influences public opinion.



Clearly then you don't read very well. You just quoted me being critical of Obama and then in almost the same breadth accuse me of fealty.

-spence

The GOP wins by historic margins, and your "criticism" of Obama is NOT that his agenda was rejected, but that he didn't do a good enough job articulating the "value", as you put it, of his policies.

So it's not that his agenda is ruinous and destructive, no no, it cannot be that. It has to be that tens of millions of regular Americans just aren't sophisticated enough to know what's really good for us.

Spence, can I ask you somehting? Are you aware of what's happening with the European economies right now? Given that those economies are all on the edge of collapse, why should I buy into Obama's view that a huge federal government, funded by European-like tax rates, is the way to prosperity? If that sort of western european socialism is failing everywhere, how is it going to work here?

Or am I wrong? If Obama's view of Utopia is not similar to western European socialism, how is it different?

Obama speaks quite often and quite well on his own. Perhaps there's a dependence or desire for highly refined messages that's distracting...I think that's a reasonable criticism, but to cite it as an intelligence issue doesn't make a lot of sense. There's just too much evidence to the contrary.

Palin of course rarely speaks in sentences longer than will fit on a Tweet, and when in doubt will write secret notes on her hand for reference...what was it again? Energy, Budget Cut, Tax and Lift American Spirits? Man...she much really be speaking from the heart...

-spence

Palin writes notes down on her hand, and she's an idiot.

Obama can't speak to school kids without his teleprompter, and he's a brilliant orator. Without his teleprompter, he once said, on tape, that America has 57 states (which obviously doesn't make him an idiot, it was just a mistake).

Again, you criticize Palin, and your Messiah gets a pass, for the same thing...

yeah, that "hostage takers" thing was great...very Presidential..:uhuh:

the good news for ANY future hopeful is that when Obama is done lowering the bar for discourse and denigrating the office, just about ANYone will be a vast improvement...

Right. And Obama can claim that he's trying to reach across the aisle to Republicans, yet he can say to the cameras that Republicans have to get "in the back of the bus". That's bridge-building, boy.

Agree, reality TV bothering bears in the wild is akin to talking about Jesus. Excellent point...

-spence

That is the single most ridiculous Internet post I have aver read, and boy that's saying somehting.

Spence, you really, REALLY think that all Rev Wright did was "talk about Jesus"?

When he claimed that the US Government invented the AIDS virus with the specific intent of eliminating blacks from the face of the Earth, where was the Jesus reference?

When he referred to our country as "the U.S. of KKK", where was the Jesus reference?

When he said that we got what we deserved on 09/11 (when he said Americans chickens simply came home to roost that day), where was the Jesus reference?

If all Wright did was talk about Jesus, I don't think it would have been an issue.

"talking about Jesus". That makes about as much sense as boiling down Osama Bin Laden's life mission to merely "talking about Allah, nothing more".

Spence, have you been painting inside with the windows shut? You need to open the windows a bit.

How old are you? Does your Mommy know you're on the Internet?

The GOP wins by historic margins, and your "criticism" of Obama is NOT that his agenda was rejected, but that he didn't do a good enough job articulating the "value", as you put it, of his policies. yes, when dems lose it's because the idiots out there couldn't understand what they were trying to do for them, to speak in 4th grade language would make more sense

So it's not that his agenda is ruinous and destructive, no no, it cannot be that. no, because he's so brilliant and experienced and articulate It has to be that tens of millions of regular Americans just aren't sophisticated enough to know what's really good for us. correct

Spence, can I ask you somehting? Are you aware of what's happening with the European economies right now? it's America's fault and Obama will fix it with a bailout Given that those economies are all on the edge of collapse, why should I buy into Obama's view that a huge federal government, funded by European-like tax rates, is the way to prosperity? Because a collapsing socialism requires the expansion of socialism, it eats away like a parasite on a host till the host is dead then it looks for another...the socialists solution for failing socialism is to make it bigger, everyone must be forced to join the party(event) If that sort of western european socialism is failing everywhere, how is it going to work here? our socialists are smarter...they're "progressive"

Or am I wrong? If Obama's view of Utopia is not similar to western European socialism, how is it different? that's the OLD socialism...we have neo(Ivy League)- socialists

more money/resources to work with here, we are the last thing standing in the way of Global Governance/Taxation and Regulation by a supreme governing body and world utopian socialism for the little people...ask Soros

Jesus has the BEST weed.

Man, Jim in Ct is getting fired up. its awesome.
If you're ever in MA, let me know, I like to buy you a few beers!

When he said that we got what we deserved on 09/11 (when he said Americans chickens simply came home to roost that day), where was the Jesus reference?


How old are you? Does your Mommy know you're on the Internet?


I can't pass this one up. I know there is a lot of negative, potentially racist comments said by Wright, and make no attempt to justify or applaud/condemn them. BUT... this one was such a talking point with the "Obama hates America crowd' that I can't not paste this. I will add, that as a full blown Agnostic, former Catholic, I know many people who sit in the Catholic church every Sunday but do not believe or agree with every single statement said by the priest/minister, and suspect that is the same for many people of many faiths. However, as an Obama supporter in '08, I don't like the fact, that he just didn't switch churches, however I suspect it was a political move to not lose his base when he was running in Chicago.

As far as it being a tired thread, it has been discussed here in previous posts, and I didn't want to rehash my arguments. Whats next? Birth certificates?


Spence just turned 40. I know because there was a surprise party his former fishing partners 9since he doesn't actually fish anymore) weren't invited to :love::D:D:D:D


Below was pasted from a Op-ed by Roland Martin, CNN. Bold emphasis added by me.

"I have now actually listened to the sermon Rev. Wright gave after September 11 titled, "The Day of Jerusalem's Fall." It was delivered on Sept. 16, 2001.
ALT TEXT

One of the most controversial statements in this sermon was when he mentioned "chickens coming home to roost." He was actually quoting Edward Peck, former U.S. Ambassador to Iraq and deputy director of President Reagan's terrorism task force, who was speaking on FOX News. That's what he told the congregation.

He was quoting Peck as saying that America's foreign policy has put the nation in peril:

"I heard Ambassador Peck on an interview yesterday did anybody else see or hear him? He was on FOX News, this is a white man, and he was upsetting the FOX News commentators to no end, he pointed out, a white man, an ambassador, he pointed out that what Malcolm X said when he was silenced by Elijah Mohammad was in fact true, he said Americas chickens, are coming home to roost.”"



I guess Edward peck hates America too....

I can't pass this one up. I know there is a lot of negative, potentially racist comments said by Wright, and make no attempt to justify or applaud/condemn them. BUT... this one was such a talking point with the "Obama hates America crowd' that I can't not paste this. I will add, that as a full blown Agnostic, former Catholic, I know many people who sit in the Catholic church every Sunday but do not believe or agree with every single statement said by the priest/minister, and suspect that is the same for many people of many faiths. However, as an Obama supporter in '08, I don't like the fact, that he just didn't switch churches, however I suspect it was a political move to not lose his base when he was running in Chicago.

As far as it being a tired thread, it has been discussed here in previous posts, and I didn't want to rehash my arguments. Whats next? Birth certificates?


Spence just turned 40. I know because there was a surprise party his former fishing partners 9since he doesn't actually fish anymore) weren't invited to :love::D:D:D:D


Below was pasted from a Op-ed by Roland Martin, CNN. Bold emphasis added by me.

"I have now actually listened to the sermon Rev. Wright gave after September 11 titled, "The Day of Jerusalem's Fall." It was delivered on Sept. 16, 2001.
ALT TEXT

One of the most controversial statements in this sermon was when he mentioned "chickens coming home to roost." He was actually quoting Edward Peck, former U.S. Ambassador to Iraq and deputy director of President Reagan's terrorism task force, who was speaking on FOX News. That's what he told the congregation.

He was quoting Peck as saying that America's foreign policy has put the nation in peril:

"I heard Ambassador Peck on an interview yesterday did anybody else see or hear him? He was on FOX News, this is a white man, and he was upsetting the FOX News commentators to no end, he pointed out, a white man, an ambassador, he pointed out that what Malcolm X said when he was silenced by Elijah Mohammad was in fact true, he said Americas chickens, are coming home to roost.”"



I guess Edward peck hates America too....

ROCKHOUND -

"this one was such a talking point with the "Obama hates America crowd'"

I'm part of that crowd. Obama's spiritual mentor for 20 years, Rev Wright, is a deranged racist who clearly hates this country.

Obama's political mentor, Bill Ayers, is a deranged would-be mass-murderer who clearly hates this country.

Obama's wife said, after he got the nomination, that for the first time in her adult life, she was proud of her country.

If Obama's lifelong pastor, political mentor, and wife clearly have major issues with this country, is it unreasonable to assume he agrees with that sentiment? Throw in his European speech tours where all he did was apologize for all of America's faults, and it gives me more reason to doubt his love for a country, a country for which I buried 2 teenagers who were killed under my command in Iraq.

"I know many people who sit in the Catholic church every Sunday but do not believe or agree with every single statement said by the priest/minister"

I'm a lifelong devout Catholic. I've been to Mass between 30 and 50 times a year for the last 25 years. I have never heard any parish priest consistently say anything as remotely offensive as what that kook preached. So if you want to compare the Catholic faith, to which I have dedicated much of my adult life, to black liberation theology, please provide some support. Otherwise please admit that those 2 "religions" are not remotely comparable. One is based on love and truth, one is based on hate and lies.

"I suspect it was a political move to not lose his base when he was running in Chicago. "

You may be right. And if you are right (that Obama didn't like what Wright was saying, but he wanted people to THINK he liked it), what does that say about Obama?

Either Obama agrees with that crap, or he was pretending to agree with that crap for political gain. There simply is not a third alternative, and both choices say something awful about the man.

If John McCain sat in at Klan rallies for 20 years, but he was just "pretending" to be a member so those guys would vote for him, you'd be OK with that?

"Whats next? Birth certificates? "

I never claimed he wasn't born here. I hate the man, but my hatred is based on truthful things about him, not made up stuff.

"I guess Edward peck hates America too"

I don't know who he is, so I have no basis to conclude anything...

Man, Jim in Ct is getting fired up. its awesome.
If you're ever in MA, let me know, I like to buy you a few beers!

This is great. I don't even have to post in here anymore. I can sit back and watch someone else make Spence look foolish.:uhuh:

And I'll be happy to buy a few beers, too. :grins:

RIJIMMY, where have you been? Seems like you haven't been in here as much lately.

ROCKHOUND -

"I guess Edward peck hates America too"

I don't know who he is, so I have no basis to conclude anything...

or Roland Martin for that matter...dosen't he have a fishing show on tv?...as an expert on the much maligned cut and paste.. let me say, thanks Bryan, for the most nonsensical cut and paste since the Great Depression...:rotf2:

One is based on love and truth, one is based on hate and lies.
I started typing a snarky comment about religion here, but I respect people's beliefs and right to believe what they want, so I am not going to make a joke. In a personal setting it might be humorous, online it is out of context.... My wife's family is DEVOUT catholic, and some of my family is. I respect your beliefs.

Are they comparable? Change my wording to Mormon, or Pentecostal, I don't care, the premise is the same. Do you believe 100% with your religion no questions asked and no disagreements? Do you stay in the church. I am not justifying some of the racial comments made, but I did provide context about the 9/11 line and you didn't even acknowledge that you brought it up out of context. I left out the link by mistake before. It is below.

As far as your time in Iraq, I have more than once responded to your post, with the fact that I 110% respect your service to your country, period.

Either Obama agrees with that crap, or he was pretending to agree with it for political gain.

I think it's the latter. In this land of the separation of Church and State, the fact remains that an Agnostic or Atheist can't get elected president, and people pander and pretend. I believe that 100%. I don't know Obama's actual personal religions beliefs, and I don't care. I don't dislike Sarah Palin or GW Bush for their religious belief, but it does heavily influence their politics. Religion is unfortunately a political issue. Catholic, Baptist, Aqua Buddha... it is a big issues.



http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/03/21/the-full-story-behind-rev-jeremiah-wrights-911-sermon/

RIJIMMY, where have you been? Seems like you haven't been in here as much lately.

Been slammed at work. Nights, weekends - just a busy time of year. I still come here for comedy relief. I pounded the Rev. Wright drum hard during the election. Thats something I could not get over and I know I posted at the time that if I was anywhere, church, public forum, theatre and someone on stage was spitting out the crap the Wright said, I grab my family and walk out.

I started typing a snarky comment about religion here, but I respect people's beliefs and right to believe what they want, so I am not going to make a joke. In a personal setting it might be humorous, online it is out of context....

Are they comparable? Change my wording to Mormon, or Pentecostal, I don't care, the premise is the same. Do you believe 100% with your religion no questions asked and no disagreements? Do you stay in the church. I am not justifying some of the racial comments made, but I did provide context about the 9/11 line and you didn't even acknowledge that you brought it up out of context. I left out the link by mistake before. It is below.

As far as your time in Iraq, I have more than once responded to your post, with the fact that I 110% respect your service to your country, period.



I think it's the latter. In this land of the separation of Church and State, the fact remains that an Agnostic or Atheist can't get elected president, and people pander and pretend. I believe that 100%. I don't know Obama's actual personal religions beliefs, and I don't care. I don't dislike Sarah Palin or GW Bush for their religious belief, but it does heavily influence their politics. Religion is unfortunately a political issue. Catholic, Baptist, Aqua Buddha... it is a big issues.



Anderson Cooper 360: Blog Archive - The full story behind Rev. Jeremiah Wright's 9/11 sermon - CNN.com Blogs (http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/03/21/the-full-story-behind-rev-jeremiah-wrights-911-sermon/)

"Change my wording to Mormon, or Pentecostal, I don't care, the premise is the same."

No, it's NOT the same, not until you can show us a real-life Mormon or Pentecostal minister who said things as offensive as Wright, as consistently as he did. Until you do that, you are making up hypotheticals, much like the "birthers" you mocked before.

"Do you believe 100 percent; with your religion no questions asked and no disagreements?"

Nope. I have minor disagreements over minor things, just like I like the Yankees and my wife likes the Red Sox. Howver, when my church says that I fought for a country that invented the AIDS virus to eradicate blacks, I denounce that chirch in the next nanosecond. Not when it's politically expedient to do so, but in the very next second.

"Change my wording to Mormon, or Pentecostal, I don't care, the premise is the same."

Maybe I am generalizing to some degree, and am not trying to put your faith on par with Wrights comments.

But I bet if I had the time and read the sermons of some large churches, maybe not in the NE, where instead of race, it was consistently Anti gay, or Anti Muslim, etc.. and I am not referring to the Westboro whack jobs. You might not view Anti-Gay comments as you do Rev Wright's statements, but some do.

I was simply trying to provide context on one of the posts you mentioned. I don't know the context of the racial comments Wright made, and likely don't agree with them. You also are guilty of providing these without context though. Doesn't mean it changes what he said, I'm just saying.

It doesn't make me rethink my vote from Obama/Biden to McCain/Palin

the problem with the internet and politics, is we all come across as very angry. I'm sure you're a very nice guy, and we have fundamental disagreements. I mean hell, I tolerate RIJimmy enough to teach him my decades of bottom fishing experience. I appreciate having these discussions and your thought out responses. You are obviously a passionate guy.

"Change my wording to Mormon, or Pentecostal, I don't care, the premise is the same."

No, it's NOT the same, not until you can show us a real-life Mormon or Pentecostal minister who said things as offensive as Wright, as consistently as he did. Until you do that, you are making up hypotheticals, much like the "birthers" you mocked before.

"Do you believe 100 percent; with your religion no questions asked and no disagreements?"

Nope. I have minor disagreements over minor things, just like I like the Yankees and my wife likes the Red Sox. Howver, when my church says that I fought for a country that invented the AIDS virus to eradicate blacks, I denounce that chirch in the next nanosecond. Not when it's politically expedient to do so, but in the very next second.

I'm pretty sure O eventually disowned the uncle Wright that he could "no more disown than his"...whatever....he was for him before he was against him :rotf2: not very "faithful"

Maybe I am generalizing to some degree, and am not trying to put your faith on par with Wrights comments.

But I bet if I had the time and read the sermons of some large churches, maybe not in the NE, where instead of race, it was consistently Anti gay, or Anti Muslim, etc.. and I am not referring to the Westboro whack jobs. You might not view Anti-Gay comments as you do Rev Wright's statements, but some do.

I was simply trying to provide context on one of the posts you mentioned. I don't know the context of the racial comments Wright made, and likely don't agree with them. You also are guilty of providing these without context though. Doesn't mean it changes what he said, I'm just saying.
It doesn't make me rethink my vote from Obama/Biden to McCain/Palin

the problem with the internet and politics, is we all come across as very angry. I'm sure you're a very nice guy, and we have fundamental disagreements. I mean hell, I tolerate RIJimmy enough to teach him my decades of bottom fishing experience

:fishin:

I mean hell, I tolerate RIJimmy enough to teach him my decades of bottom fishing experience. I appreciate having these discussions and your thought out responses. You are obviously a passionate guy.

i think you meant to type "respect and admire" instead of "tolerate"

Maybe I am generalizing to some degree, and am not trying to put your faith on par with Wrights comments.

But I bet if I had the time and read the sermons of some large churches, maybe not in the NE, where instead of race, it was consistently Anti gay, or Anti Muslim, etc.. and I am not referring to the Westboro whack jobs. You might not view Anti-Gay comments as you do Rev Wright's statements, but some do.

I was simply trying to provide context on one of the posts you mentioned. I don't know the context of the racial comments Wright made, and likely don't agree with them. You also are guilty of providing these without context though. Doesn't mean it changes what he said, I'm just saying.

It doesn't make me rethink my vote from Obama/Biden to McCain/Palin

the problem with the internet and politics, is we all come across as very angry. I'm sure you're a very nice guy, and we have fundamental disagreements. I mean hell, I tolerate RIJimmy enough to teach him my decades of bottom fishing experience. I appreciate having these discussions and your thought out responses. You are obviously a passionate guy.

"You also are guilty of providing these without context though. Doesn't mean it changes what he said, I'm just saying. "

Maybe I'm not smart enough to grasp this "context" thing. Rev Wright said that our federal government invented the AIDS virus to wage biological warfare against blacks. Put that in any context you want, it's inconceivable to me that we'd elect as President a man who would let such a pastor baptize his kids, and perform his marriage.

At the very least, how can you deny that there are valid reasons to wonder what Obama really thinks about this country?

At the very least, how can you deny that there are valid reasons to wonder what Obama really thinks about this country?


And there is a fundamental difference between us.

I believe he doesn't hate America, you do. we could continually go around.

Context (of the quotes) may have been the wrong word. I need to read them in their entirety I guess is what I meant. The 'chickens come home to roost' comment, it turns out was a direct quote of of former Ambassador to Iraq and Regan cabinet member, not Wrights original idea, and was taken out of context from his sermon. Again, it may not change a thing, that may be the exception, and they may be as racial and %$%$%$%$ty as it sounds, but I try and be critical of what I hear from both sides of the media.

RIJ, I meant what I said. tolerate is the right word :love:

DEFENDING THE INDEFENSIBLE IS AWFULLY HARD WORK...

WIKIPEDIA

Jeremiah Wright Controversy
Main article: Jeremiah Wright controversy
In March 2008 the U.S. Presidential campaign of Barack Obama was affected when videos of sermons by the Reverend Jeremiah Wright, his former pastor at Trinity United Church of Christ, came to media attention. In one broadcast on many media outlets, including ABC News, Wright, on Sept. 16, 2001, referenced an appearance of Peck on Fox News before saying, "We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye...and now we are indignant, because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought back into our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost." Wright attributed to Peck the credit for allegedly "pointing out" that "America's chickens are coming home to roost", a phrase Wright repeated several times. According to PBS Ombudsman Michael Getler, though Peck did cite numerous faults against America and criticized its foreign policy, "Peck never used the phrase about chickens coming home to roost. His answers were more nuanced."[9]

he was also in the CARTER ADMIN(which I could care less about but Bry felt the Regan association quite important to point out) AND...He argues that while Hezbollah could be considered a terrorist organization, it is no more terrorist than Israel or the U.S. itself. He supports a dialogue with Hezbollah.
Peck has also said that he also believes that Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization.

And there is a fundamental difference between us.

I believe he doesn't hate America, you do. we could continually go around.

Context (of the quotes) may have been the wrong word. I need to read them in their entirety I guess is what I meant. The 'chickens come home to roost' comment, it turns out was a direct quote of of former Ambassador to Iraq and Regan cabinet member, not Wrights original idea, and was taken out of context from his sermon. Again, it may not change a thing, that may be the exception, and they may be as racial and %$%$%$%$ty as it sounds, but I try and be critical of what I hear from both sides of the media.

RIJ, I meant what I said. tolerate is the right word :love:

Rockhound, I do enjoy this debate, and I hope my posts are not coming across harsher than I'm intending. My posts tend to do that, unfortunately. You and I don't agree, but you have been very respectful.

"I believe he doesn't hate America, you do. we could continually go around. "

I'm not saying I think he hates America. I'm saying his spiritual mentor, his political mentor, and his wife all dislike this country to varying degrees. Do you agree?

Given that the most important people in his life seem to dislike this country, it seems rational to me to wonder what he thinks. But those who dare to question his patriotism are dismissed as kooky racists by those who worship Obama.

Rockhound, how about economics? I'm no expert by any means, but here's what I think...

(1) the western European nations are more socialist in nature than the US currently is (fact)
(2) those western european nations are in far more economic danger than the US currently is (fact)
(3) given (1) and (2), it's fair to say that western european socialism doesn't seem to be working (my opinion, but reasonable I think)
(4) in order to save themselves, those nations are drastically cutting spending (fact)
(5) Obama's vision of america is one where the federal government is larger than we're used to, with higher taxes to support it (I'd say that's fact, I don't see how you can disagree). In other words, he favors the western European model.

\Given all this, why would anyone in his right mind believe that we should repeat the same mistakes that are currently destroying Western Europe? Why is that form of light socialism going to work here, if it has never worked anywhere else?

I don't like the fact that there are poor folks out there. If someone could build a society where everyone made exactly $125,000, I would want to live there. But there is a reason why, in the history of the planet, no opne has been able to pull it off. It just doesn't work.

Therefore, I am as opposed to Obama's economic policies as I can be. Our economy was doing just fine until the subprime mortgages imploded.

What do you think?

Rockhound, I do enjoy this debate, and I hope my posts are not coming across harsher than I'm intending. My posts tend to do that, unfortunately. You and I don't agree, but you have been very respectful.

"I believe he doesn't hate America, you do. we could continually go around. "

I'm not saying I think he hates America. I'm saying his spiritual mentor, his political mentor, and his wife all dislike this country to varying degrees. Do you agree?

Given that the most important people in his life seem to dislike this country, it seems rational to me to wonder what he thinks. But those who dare to question his patriotism are dismissed as kooky racists by those who worship Obama.

Rockhound, how about economics? I'm no expert by any means, but here's what I think...

What do you think?

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND
I can't pass this one up. ,, it has been discussed here in previous posts, and I didn't want to rehash my arguments. Whats next? Birth certificates?

pasted from a Op-ed by Roland Martin, CNN. Bold emphasis added by me.

did anybody else see or hear him? He was on FOX News, this is a white man,

I guess Edward peck hates America too....
...........................................




it's a little more than that Jim, Bryan has formed his opinion based on a CNN/MSNBC fairytale illusion narrative rather than actual facts...he just proved it by using a story by a CNN unknown, claiming to debunk the Reverend Wright myth claiming that a member of the Regan administration had said exactly the same thing...none of which is true and it turns out that his expert witness sounds exactly like most Obama "friends" and would have actually fit quite nicely in to the Wright Congregation.....it's not a difference of "Opinion"...it's a difference in the ability/willingness to selectively ignore or dismiss basic facts simply because they disagree with his world view and it occurs routinely and results in thin arguments beyond the basic talking points...what sort of debate do you have when facts are completely ignored or dismissed or in this case...invented....you stated this as a liberal trait...it's remarkably accurate...and in an effort to defend WHO?...Reverend Wright?!?!?

someone should tell him, lest he continue to wander in the dark.....you know, about the Peck thing...he's selectively ignoring me...further proof:uhuh:

Rockhound, I do enjoy this debate, and I hope my posts are not coming across harsher than I'm intending. My posts tend to do that, unfortunately. You and I don't agree, but you have been very respectful. As have you, which is why I enjoy the discussion. I just got back to this now, I wasn't ignoring the topic, just a busy day! I may come across as a raving liberal, and on some topics I am, but I'm some pseudo Liberal-Ind-Libertarian Mix.


I'm not saying I think he hates America. I'm saying his spiritual mentor, his political mentor, and his wife all dislike this country to varying degrees. Do you agree? I think there may be aspects of the country they disagree with, but I wouldn't call Wright his political mentor, nor would I call Ayers his political mentor. As far as Michelle, who knows. I do think she is left of her husband, but I think Laura Bush was left of GWB on some topics. This has influence, but ultimately they (the wives) are not the president.

But those who dare to question his patriotism are dismissed as kooky racists by those who worship Obama. I don't think you come across as a kooky racist; some who are out there holding signs certainly are.

(1) the western European nations are more socialist in nature than the US currently is (fact) (2) those western european nations are in far more economic danger than the US currently is (fact) (3) given (1) and (2), it's fair to say that western european socialism doesn't seem to be working (my opinion, but reasonable I think) (4) in order to save themselves, those nations are drastically cutting spending (fact) (5) Obama's vision of america is one where the federal government is larger than we're used to, with higher taxes to support it (I'd say that's fact, I don't see how you can disagree). In other words, he favors the western European model.

1,2,3 I accept as fact. I also think the scale of the economies of those countries is far different than the US, and makes direct comparisons difficult. I also don't see us heading down the socialist path you do. I was a fan of Healthcare for children and the elderly, and having a low-cost option for the rest of America, which is what Obama campaigned on. It remains to be seen if the current plan does that.

Here in lies a major issue. I don't think many people, myself included think that we can continue to raise spending a cut taxes, and this applies to both sides of the aisle. I think the White House dropped the ball with this one, and should have fought harder. The problem now, is that these cuts are probably permanent (maybe not a problem? I like lower taxes as well) but few of the Republicans are actually proposing ways to make the cuts needed. They were continually griping about how we need to extend unemployment, but only if the Democrats find a way to fund it. Where is the same logic with the tax cuts? What will get cut to account for the difference in income for the country.... Probably nothing right now, and nothing when the Republicans take the house.

Therefore, I am as opposed to Obama's economic policies as I can be. Our economy was doing just fine until the subprime mortgages imploded

Are you blaming this on Obama? I don't think you are, but just clarifying....

Bryan, its all business 101. If a lowly URI business graduate like me gets it, they need to as well!
There is no budget for 2011 is there? If no, you cant say that the tax cuts cost us anything! Tax = Revenue. A budget should be Revenue - expenses = surplus or defecit.
So if the tax rates are extended - Revenue is relatively fixed....on the BOTTOM end. Market goes up, businesses do well, etc....we can take in more revenue.
So all this talk that were funding tax breaks with the defecit is foolish. We need to greatly reduce spending and get this country making money. I know you know this, but just restating.

Bryan, its all business 101. If a lowly URI business graduate like me gets it, they need to as well!
There is no budget for 2011 is there? If no, you cant say that the tax cuts cost us anything! Tax = Revenue. A budget should be Revenue - expenses = surplus or defecit.
So if the tax rates are extended - Revenue is relatively fixed....on the BOTTOM end. Market goes up, businesses do well, etc....we can take in more revenue.
So all this talk that were funding tax breaks with the defecit is foolish. We need to greatly reduce spending and get this country making money. I know you know this, but just restating.

I agree with this, however, show me how the cutting is being accomplished from either side of the aisle right now? It certainly didn't happen under the last administration with unfunded wars and lower taxes....

It is also a good thing to remember, that even without the Bush tax cuts, we are way below historic tax levels.... what was the percentage post WWII? Was it higher than today (to pay for the War???)

I agree with this, however, show me how this is being accomplished from either side of the aisle right now? It certainly didn't happen under the last administration with unfunded wars and lower taxes....

It is also a good thing to remember, that even without the Bush tax cuts, we are way below historic tax levels.... what was the percentage post WWII? Was it higher than today (to pay for the War???)

I think its the first step. The legislation was pending, it had to be resolved. Next - lets cut spending. I think the tea party leaders were pretty vocal after 11/2 - repubs you're up, what are you gonna do? They better step up. I dont think they'll get free ride.
we had a budget surplus in this country under Clinton, not because of some brillaint budgetary moves, but teh country was cranking with the dot-com market. Lots of capital gains. We need to crank again. Only business can crank, government wanks. Government out of the way. Its the only solution I see.

As have you, which is why I enjoy the discussion. I just got back to this now, I wasn't ignoring the topic, just a busy day! I may come across as a raving liberal, and on some topics I am, but I'm some pseudo Liberal-Ind-Libertarian Mix.


I think there may be aspects of the country they disagree with, but I wouldn't call Wright his political mentor, nor would I call Ayers his political mentor. As far as Michelle, who knows. I do think she is left of her husband, but I think Laura Bush was left of GWB on some topics. This has influence, but ultimately they (the wives) are not the president.

I don't think you come across as a kooky racist; some who are out there holding signs certainly are.



1,2,3 I accept as fact. I also think the scale of the economies of those countries is far different than the US, and makes direct comparisons difficult. I also don't see us heading down the socialist path you do. I was a fan of Healthcare for children and the elderly, and having a low-cost option for the rest of America, which is what Obama campaigned on. It remains to be seen if the current plan does that.

Here in lies a major issue. I don't think many people, myself included think that we can continue to raise spending a cut taxes, and this applies to both sides of the aisle. I think the White House dropped the ball with this one, and should have fought harder. The problem now, is that these cuts are probably permanent (maybe not a problem? I like lower taxes as well) but few of the Republicans are actually proposing ways to make the cuts needed. They were continually griping about how we need to extend unemployment, but only if the Democrats find a way to fund it. Where is the same logic with the tax cuts? What will get cut to account for the difference in income for the country.... Probably nothing right now, and nothing when the Republicans take the house.



Are you blaming this on Obama? I don't think you are, but just clarifying....

rirockhound -

"but I wouldn't call Wright his political mentor"

I assume you meant to say "spiritual" mentor. You don't consider Wright to be Obama's spiritual mentor. Let's see...Obama sat in that church for 20 years, Wright married the Obamas, Wright baptized both of the Obama girls, what would you call it? You sound like someone who will go to great lengths to avoid reality, if that reality makes Obama look bad.

"As far as Michelle, who knows"

I know what she said. Do you?

Laura Bush? Where is the evidence she might be an anti-American influence on her husband.

You are dodging...

"I also don't see us heading down the socialist path you do."

Based on what? Obama wants the feds to play a bigger role in healthcare, the auto industry, financial markets...He wants to drastically expand the size and scope of the federal government. You say his vision is not the same as western Europe. PLEASE SUPPORT THAT STATEMENT...

Obama's current "spiritual advisor" Jim Wallis

Wallis has served on the Advisory Council to President Barack Obama's Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships. He serves as a spiritual adviser to President Obama.

“If you want to understand where Barack gets his feeling and rhetoric from,” says the Rev. Jim Wallis, a leader of the religious left, “just look at Jeremiah Wright.”

Obama Suddenly Objects To Wright Being Called His ‘Spiritual Mentor’ - By Jim Geraghty - The Campaign Spot - National Review Online (http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/9734/obama-suddenly-objects-wright-being-called-his-spiritual-mentor)

I can not believe what I just heard watching the reality show.
Sarah ask the question to Willow "what is the eastern most state". Ok I'm thinking Maine or Florida. Sarah said it is Alaska.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I can not believe what I just heard watching the reality show.
Sarah ask the question to Willow "what is the eastern most state". Ok I'm thinking Maine or Florida. Sarah said it is Alaska.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

http://www.thecontrarianmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/palin.jpg

There was reruns on last night and I flipped through it. She's lame. You see it once you seen it all. They're gonna milk the reruns for years now.

ugh.

She always talks about seeing Russia from Alaska as if its her mother land. Maybe she believes Alaska is one of the post Soviet states which would make it the most eastern state.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I can not believe what I just heard watching the reality show.
Sarah ask the question to Willow "what is the eastern most state". Ok I'm thinking Maine or Florida. Sarah said it is Alaska.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device



Your so smart and thinking that Florida could be the eastern most state, tell us what is he eastern most state?

^^^ the answer is in my post you quoted.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

well, at least MSNBC will have something important to talk about ALL week...Sarah thanks you all for tuning in :rotf2:

If the whole question was, "what is the eastern most state," she was right. Alaska is the farthest east, north and west.

If the whole question was, "what is the eastern most state in the lower(contiguous) 48 states, we would all know that it would be Maine, northern most is Minnesota.


You should be able to get this one, "what is the southern most state?"

Mexico

Mexico

good one ! :rotf2:

this reminds me of the time that one of the lib babe news chicks was mocking Sarah for not naming specific founders that she admired but then said that the founder that she (libnewsschickbabe) most admired was Abe Lincoln:rotf2:

Mexico

Give your present president four more years and I may agree. :rotf2:

I watched it and laughed last night. Maybe it was the few beers I had during the pats game but i enjoyed seeing her shooting rifles and camping with that Kate plus eight chick. It was entertaining too me, go figure. Maybe this post is actually adding to the appeal of the show for me. I bet half of the guys here who "hate" her so much would quiver with excitement if she was hitting on them. I'd like to hang out with her more than i would Obama. Although I wouldn't mind playing a little hoops with the Prez and lowering the shoulder on him.:biglaugh:

a few more years of Obamanomics, and Mexico might start looking pretty good. The difference is, unlike the US, Mexico actually cracks down on folks who enter that country illegally...

Nancy Pelosi's San Francisco would make an entertaining reality show....don't you think?

Nancy Pelosi's San Francisco would make an entertaining reality show....don't you think?

Who would watch it? She's fugly.