Lets have a suggestion for a lure of the sometimeframe to discuss and perhaps a volunteer to kick off the discussion :tooth:

Thanks!

John

** UPDATE **

A request was made for the Flaptail so Lure for discussion is the Flaptail. Thanks!

What the heck,
Do I need to lead this discussion or just provide a start to it?

How about a Flaptail? who started it, the history of it, and proper techniques

Pretty esoteric plug to start with, since they are not easily available.

The first I know of suitable for saltwater use were the Heddon musky sized. Jerry Sylvester adapted these plugs for saltwater and was turning them out around the canal @WWII. Some higher end NY companies Lido and Emmerson turned out some real collectible versions, as did Pt Jude. More recently Pt jude, Atom, and Poe made a version.

The best ones are the lido design, although front hook fouling is an issue. Prof M is the only guy making those of which I am aware, so ruin his winter and place orders now.

The plug is a fantastic daytime lure, and bass hit it harder than any other plug I've fished. The best ones (the lido and most recent Pt Jude) can be worked slowly like a spook with some zig zag. Most (like the older Pt jude) come in straight like a torpedo. They work, but I like the zig zag option better. I've not tried them at night (but plan to on a full moon). They cast poorly. The ones with the offset tail attachment work better.

Here are some photos.
First is the heddon, pt jude older, sylvester.
Next the pt jude "flap-along", and an Atom
Last a Steve Shiraka original (about 20-25 years ago), then an exact Prof M copy of the Lido, then a Greek version.

If you want to fish them you will need to build them (unless salty comes up with a kit)

Here is our hero with a fish on a flaptail.....after he missed/dropped about three that were twice that size :rotf2:

Cool - looks like our first discussion is on the Flaptail. Appropriate.

Thanks for the info regarding the history of the plug and the way it works numbskull. Sounds like a fun build for the winter. Anyone have any general measurements they could share? Also, do you have to make your own flaptail or are they available somewhere?

Thanks!

is that atom, just a regular atom reverse made in to a flaptail, or did they make flaptails as well. Theoretically, could some one make a small atom, reverse it and instead of putting a lip in just put a flap tail on the through wire.

ARE THE TAILS SOMETING THAT S.COTT PUNCHES OUT? Oh Salty, can you here my request?

The Atom is a plug they sold, made using their junior atom body. I never fished it so I don't know if it is any good.

The flaptail blades are available from Salty, NJ tackle, Stamina, and other places (M&D's also I think).

Ryan smith made some a few years back. I should try them more often.
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You'd likely be the first. Too many of Ryan's plugs end up getting collected rather than fished. Sadly people fail to realize that a good plug adds more to your life when you fish it than when you hang it or hoard it.

It's all in the location in the tail :grins:
Just ask Paulie

Thanks for the info George:uhuh:

I first learned of the flaptail plug from Steve. I tried my own crude version and the first cast from the canal I got a hit on it. They do work for stripers.
I guess I need to make more.

Holy cow What about--Capesams-- I thought he made a flaptail???

Flaptails are at the top of my list for new plugs I will be tossing next season! Working on some now! This is my version of a "Lido" Flaptail!:)

This site has a lot of pictures of older flaptails. Antique Saltwater Lures (http://www.shorelinebt.com/id3.html) click on the link for Fishmaster to see some nice Sylvester flaptails.

I think Capesam's plug is based on the Lido plug Paul brought back to life. Wouldn't surprise me if he built others as well.

Here are two other takes on flaptails.
The needle on top is by Slip
The swimmer I don't remember the company name (I don't think it is a Capt'n Bill)

Holy cow What about--Capesams-- I thought he made a flaptail???


Problem was he was one of the first to do it, but a plug body made out of logs and the flap made out of stone didn't work too well. Though considering the materials and tools they had to work with in the late Jurassic period, he really was quite a head of his time :devil2: :tooth:

A little tutorial from the late great Mr. Flaptail, aka S. S.

Flaptails were developed for short casts from a boat or shore in rocky and/or weed covered shallow bottom. Originally designed by Heddon for freshwater bass/pike use, I have been making them for years based on Jerry Sylvesters designs and Ollie Rodmans mention of how to fish them in his book "The Saltwater Fisherman's Favorite Four". I use no weighting and work them like a spook, zigzaging them across the surface. If you are getting follows and no takes try giving them a good rip forward with the tip down towards the water, this will drive the plug just under the surface where the high cut on the head will make it swim side to side with that blade buzzing bubbles in a trail for a few feet. My best applications for this plug has been The Elizabeth Islands, Fishers Island and Pleasant Bay on Cape Cod, especially in the Strong Island area.

Luv the plug. Like all top water plugs they are a ball to fish and add flash and splash to a top water plug and you got lots of fun.:uhuh: You should have seen the looks I got fishing one on the canal this year. What the hell is that thing I heard more than once. Had one for years sitting in cellar I borrowed for VB. He thought I was keeping it I am sure I had it so long. Really liked the look. George told me they were good plugs to fish and the hits would be very memorable so I credit them for getting me going on them and fishing them. Fun plug. Moore's sells their version of a flaptail. I think most of the people selling them just buy them from them. I use them but Lido used a different shape but same end result. Thanks for the info and pics George and the kind words and now the PM's. I have all the dim.'s on the Lido if anyone wants them . I'll put in plug building forum, thought I already did a couple years ago:confused:, maybe tomorrow. Most on this forum probably aren't interested.

Just ask Paulie
Ya kin unly be kawled Pauley if you are from Lawn Guyland.

the Atom shown was specifically made as a flaptail experiment. a few were sold like that on the Cape and Rhode Island back yrs ago. The mold was modified-one at replacement stage of wear- to take the swivel so as to work better. Bob even made some 56-talking atom popper- in flouresent orange a-white-blue and white and red /yellow for a while in the early 80's. They worked pretty good but didn't sell very well.The ist ones he gave me had a siwash 5/0 tail hook with the blade hung on it. The jr's were designed with the swivel in place. I beleive Bob was copying a Jerry Sylvester that he saw being used and working well.Ron

bernzy made a flaptail style howdy as well

You'd likely be the first. Too many of Ryan's plugs end up getting collected rather than fished. Sadly people fail to realize that a good plug adds more to your life when you fish it than when you hang it or hoard it.

Amen brotha!

This has been very informative. I am familiar with the plug but did not now anything about it.

verrrrry interesting~~~
thanks to ALL the contributors, esp. Dr Gee!
sum excellent pix and chronology of the lure.

ya mean i have to increase my AYC arsenal, again?

looks extremely fishy, i love spooky lures, add in the double whammy of flash and tail wiggle to the tail, and you have a striper magnet, no?

so, is it safe to assume that the deep shads and the swim shads were bourne from this lure's success from the middle to the top of the water column, but it's inability to fish the bottom of the column with any degree of consistency or effectiveness?

since i've never fished one, i can only go by sight,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

by my eye~ it doesn't "look" like any of the FLAPS featured above would allow you to get to where the big gurls laze about, down deep, caruising the bottoms for their next tasty morsel?? with the Swim Shads, i see the same wiggly/wobbly/bubble generating "tail" combined with the "flash" of the hollographic shimmer/finish, add in the ownership of the structure at its depths with life-like action and profile~~~~ and it just ain't fair,,,,,,,,,,,,sometimes, it feels like cheating!! then again, i AM an EEEEEEEELIN' sumana beeeetch
:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

any truth to my wonderings,,,,,,,,or, am i LOST in my own Sea of Discombobulation?

by my eye~ it doesn't "look" like any of the FLAPS featured above would allow you to get to where the big gurls laze about, down deep, caruising the bottoms for their next tasty morsel?? ?

Injured, dying, exhausted, large bait fish don't stay deep......they struggle slowly on the surface. Large bass do not pass up easy meals (provided they do not have to go far through fast water to get them).

Plugging is not about feeding fish (as are eels). It is about fooling fish. Making your offering look like easy prey helps achieve this. The flaptail does exactly that.

Problem was he was one of the first to do it, but a plug body made out of logs and the flap made out of stone didn't work too well. Though considering the materials and tools they had to work with in the late Jurassic period, he really was quite a head of his time :devil2: :tooth:

sad to say the first toss was a flop..rock went to the bottom an the log stood straight up w/2 feet of the top standing out of the water...where do u think they got the idea for mooring bouys .

what is your request

I make the original shape flaptails and also stock/sell charktails

http://www.stripersonline.co/images/flaptails.jpg

ARE THE TAILS SOMETING THAT S.COTT PUNCHES OUT? Oh Salty, can you here my request?

This site has a lot of pictures of older flaptails. Antique Saltwater Lures (http://www.shorelinebt.com/id3.html) click on the link for Fishmaster to see some nice Sylvester flaptails.

I think Capesam's plug is based on the Lido plug Paul brought back to life. Wouldn't surprise me if he built others as well.

Here are two other takes on flaptails.
The needle on top is by Slip
The swimmer I don't remember the company name (I don't think it is a Capt'n Bill)

she's a c-bill's..tough color..black over yellow....flaptails r only good if they come off the bottom of the plug..not out the butt end..people got lazy an thought it was the easy way out.Works far better down under.

Injured, dying, exhausted, large bait fish don't stay deep......they struggle slowly on the surface. Large bass do not pass up easy meals (provided they do not have to go far through fast water to get them).

Plugging is not about feeding fish (as are eels). It is about fooling fish. Making your offering look like easy prey helps achieve this. The flaptail does exactly that.

as always,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

thanks be to you, George, for your setting me straight~~~
do you not see the similarities with the swimshads, though??

as implied earlier, i LOVE the take on the surface and i've fooled sum beauties with AH spooks and sliders, Salty's sheriffs, RI's custom builder's poppers, Tattoo's jointeds/darters(middle), etc,,,,,,,,,,,,,

ALL good, and very sweet to see/feel the explosion on top!!
i WILL definitely be looking to score some this Winter~~~

yet, none of the above approaches the takes i've had down deep, along the bottoms, from PTSMTH to WHLT and many pts inbetween. either via the snake or the swimshads of aforemention. thanks, again, Numby, excellent compare and contrast with the feeding and the fooling!!
:grins: :grins: :grins:

Nice lookin tails Scott. Gonna need to grab a few of them. Got a nice idea lookin at this group of flap tails I have here.They might work real nice on the bottle swimmers.

Ryan smith made some a few years back. I should try them more often.
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bernzy made a flaptail style howdy as well

sorry, i meant bernzy.

I"ve got one "spot" that at the turn of the tide( outgoing to incoming) in the fall( the fish only seem to stage there in the fall) that falp tails seem to outfish everything.... even EELS... the bass are close to the rocks and absolutly crush a flap tail when a spook or danny only draws a swirl at the boat.... it's happend many times over a period of years.... so it wasnt a one time thing... the "spot" and method was passed on to me by an old timer that is no longer with us...