Thats a huge quake. Some crazy video of the tsunami. I check the weather buoy data frequently, its crazy how widespread the tsunami buoys are registering abnormalities.

National Data Buoy Center (http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/)

It is a very bad situation over there.

mag 8.9

wave video

Deaths, tsunamis feared as massive quake hits Japan - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/11/japan.quake/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1)

Just IN:

BREAKING NEWS: Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after problems at power plant - NHK

floating radioactive clouds? doesn't sound to good...

seeing those debris flows with some of it on fire
demonstrates just how quickly it picked up burning buildings :doh:

The videos I am just seeing as I wake up. Very concerning. Horrible disaster. I can't believe some of the video its just surreal? 22 foot high wall of water??? Unreal! They are evacuating Hawaii coastlines to inland areas.....Hawaii has had a 4.9 earthquake also and they are expecting Tsunami's by 8am EST. California coast and Alaska also on alert.....just amazing. The thought of the loss of life and the destruction is turning my stomach.

the green houses and rows out in the fields are {were} exact measurements
and will give scientists and mathematicians a
perfectly accurate rate of debris flow which looks like something you
couldn't even run away from before being swallowed by the beast.

They say these Tsunami's can move at speeds between 500 and 625 miles an hour??? You just can't believe things like this can happen. Imagine that hitting the coast of Hawaii????

Horrible

One of my best friends and his pregnant wife live in Hawaii - she is due on St Patty's day. I shot him a txt wishing him well and to stay in touch. Hopefully its no big deal... but certainly in my T+P.
Horrible news - Hopefully the world comes together to assist those affected.

thoughts and prayers, especially to our Military folks over in that region...

I've been over there, lots of history and the people are so nice and welcoming. Sad that they are faced with this. Let's keep our fingers crossed for them as well as Hawaii and the West Coast.

Hawaii is getting hit now,

Tsunami waves hit Hawaii, sweep across islands - Boston.com (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2011/03/11/tsunami_waves_slam_hawaii_as_storm_sweeps_islands/)

when you read about how rouge waves form out of no where

you realize that waves are predictable to a large extent
and then suddenly they combine together "out of sequence"
becoming a traveling wave that can continue growing....go rouge

the lifting of the water due to the earth quake can unpredictably
do something similar based upon its timing...:fury::bath:

just heard that all military folks are accounted for

so terrible. THe footage of the harbors is devastating.. totally devastating.

Our Nanny's husband is in the Navy over there now. She hasn't been able to get in touch with him, I'm sure he's ok but she is a wreak

Insane

YouTube - Japanese Tsunami (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayLXYEIIBik&feature=player_embedded#at=113)

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Aftermath of the Earthquake and Tsunami in Japan - Photographs - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/03/11/world/asia/20110311_japan.html?ref=#1)

Water went 60 miles inland! That would be comparable to impacting Boston and reaching to Sturbridge...... How is that for perspective!

The videos just make you want to cry for those people. The one of the large fishing boat riding inland for a couple miles is amazing. Very surreal.

This is tragic.... I'm sure America, as it always does, will go to their aid...

That video is amazing. The water is rushing across fields, and eventually you can see a road ahead with cars driving across it. The water was headed right for the road as people kept driving by.

The thing about tsunamis is that they aren't just tidal waves. They're surges that raise the sea level. So as the water starts flooding the beach, it keeps coming. It's not one wave event - it basically raises the sea level at the shore, and it stays high for a while. That's why the flood can go so far inshore. One big wave would die - the surge lasts and keeps doing damage.

BF I agree. I got a pit in my stomach thinking about the dread and loss those folks are going through and will continue to go through.

Kinda puts a little different perspective on things

Sending good thoughts that way

I heard a report that a commuter train is missing...

Man that's so sad.

I heard a report that a commuter train is missing...

I heard 4 trains have not been heard from since quake!

Saw pictures from Santa Cruz harbor where a 2' surge devastated the harbor and numerous boats destroyed.

In northern CA someone had to get a picture of the incoming tsunami wave and went down to the beach: he has not returned and likely washed out to sea. Again wasting Coast Guard resources looking for the a***hole!

Water went 60 miles inland! That would be comparable to impacting Boston and reaching to Sturbridge...... How is that for perspective!

I heard this earlier, but latest I have heard was that water went six mile inland.... I don 't know which is correct, but even six miles is devastating....

6 miles sounds like it makes more sense.

no i thought i heard 65 miles inland too
maybe bad reporting by news people

8.9 quake!!!!!! I never heard of one even close to that. That scale is logarithmic , 8.9 is incredible.

Lots of concerns about what may happen next saturday or around that date with the moon so close and the perfect alignment. I read somewhere that the earths crust could be distorted as much as 1 percent. 1 percent doesn't sound like much but 1 percent of something as large as the earths crust is a big deal. Could be the moons pull as it gets closer that has cause this huge quake.

Great picture (not mine) of the tsunami wave moving across SF Bay towards Oakland.

The thought of the loss of life and the destruction is turning my stomach.

YouTube - Disturbance in the Force (Obi Won Kenobi / Star Wars) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cGAC6D7eng)

8.9 quake!!!!!! I never heard of one even close to that. That scale is logarithmic , 8.9 is incredible.


10X in shaking for every number but I heard today 32X in energy for every number increase? Never heard it expressed that way.

Mag 1 = 6 oz TNT
Mag 9 = 6 x32x32x32x32x32x32x32x32/(16*2000) = 200 Million TONS TNT

just heard that all military folks are accounted for

Great news. Relieved to hear this.

I heard 4 trains have not been heard from since quake!

Lots of deaths, been hard to follow at the show.

Just IN:

BREAKING NEWS: Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after problems at power plant - NHK

Sat 5AM Boston time
IWAKI, Japan — An explosion at a nuclear power station Saturday destroyed a building housing the reactor amid fears that it was close to a disastrous meltdown after being hit by a powerful earthquake and tsunami.

Friday's double disaster, which pulverized Japan's northeastern coast, has left 574 people dead by official count, although local media reports said at least 1,300 people may have been killed.

Tokyo Power Electric Co., the utility that runs the Fukushima Dai-ichi plant, said four workers had suffered fractures and bruises and were being treated at a hospital. A nuclear expert said a meltdown may not pose widespread danger.

Footage on Japanese TV showed that the walls of the reactor's building had crumbled, leaving only a skeletal metal frame standing. Puffs of smoke were spewing out of the plant in Fukushima, 20 miles (30 kilometers) from Iwaki.

"We are now trying to analyze what is behind the explosion," said government spokesman Yukio Edano, stressing that people should quickly evacuate a six-mile (10-kilometer) radius. "We ask everyone to take action to secure safety

(CNN) -- The powerful earthquake that unleashed a devastating tsunami Friday appears to have moved the main island of Japan by 8 feet (2.4 meters) and shifted the Earth on its axis.
"At this point, we know that one GPS station moved (8 feet), and we have seen a map from GSI (Geospatial Information Authority) in Japan showing the pattern of shift over a large area is consistent with about that much shift of the land mass," said Kenneth Hudnut, a geophysicist with the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS).
Reports from the National Institute of Geophysics and Volcanology in Italy estimated the 8.9-magnitude quake shifted the planet on its axis by nearly 4 inches (10 centimeters)

Wow... 8 feet is a bunch... King Neptune must have been doing some serious lovemaking

here is what they really dont want you to know,

There have only ever been 4 recorded higher than 8.9 since I guess they had the ability to measure going back to the mid 1700. 3 of these were in fairly remote areas but one was in Indonesia recently. I doubt indonesia has the population density of Japan.

The deadliest earthquake was in a populated area of China. It was only an 8.0 . You got to figure that one 10 times stronger in a densely populated area like japan is going to affect a lot of people. Hopefully the better infrastructure of Japan vs China will mean more rescued , less diseases after , etc. Luckily , this one's center was a long way off the coast not on the land but the down side of that is that being in the water , it caused the tsunami.

The 8 foot shift is the type of thing they are worried about as the moon sweeps by so close during the coming 2 weeks. They liken it to a high tide but it will be the land rising and falling as well as the oceans of course. Lots of earthquakes are do to a pinned area of the faults letting go. There is a tremendous amount of energy stored when a strong pin locks in the land masses that are trying to slide across one another. the huge shifts expected do to the added moon pull can cause these pinned faults to unlock and slide a lot all at once.

lets hope there are no more as big as this one in Japan.

They say New England is not immune. We haven't had a bad earthquake in a long time but some say its do to a strong pin and that when or if it lets go , we could experience a really big one. Of course the most famous one talked about in the USA is the San Andreas fault in california that people say will "cause part of Caifornia to fall into the pacific ocean." Events like this one in japan make it seem a lot more feasible than just what is mentioned in Sci Fi movies.

OMG I just watched a show that was on the ground at the sites of some of the worst struck areas and the devastation is unbelievable. Those towns that were in valleys which a lot of them were are just wiped off the face of the map.

It was worse than the South East Asia tsunami. It makes me happy we live on sand, and other glacial till.

U know what is the scariest part. They are the most prepared country for this type of natural disaster in the world and they got their lunch handed to them. This happening off the west coast would be many times worse. Scary stuff.

You can't really be prepared for such disaster.....you can think you are.....but you can't foresee to what degree such devastation an 8.9 mag earthquake or a 30 foot wall of water is going to bring. What I have not heard anyone say is.......how long after the quake did the Tsunami come ashore?? Did they have any warning at all??? 10 minutes?? 30 Minutes???

PS....define "prepared"?

they had 15 minutes warning.

Amazing all the news stations I watched and not one of them reported that incredibly important detail???? Thanks Nebe! Man thats not alot of time at all!!! Especially if you were on a boat??

i have heard it on the news a few times. They said that they had 15 minutes of warning for the tsunami... but i think..... and this is just my hunch...that they felt the earth quake first... then the tsunami alarms went off and it it took 15 minutes for it to hit.

I never heard it mentioned 1 time.....which I found amazing.

my point exactly you can't be prepared for such devastation and the same situation elsewhere would probably result in even worse results. They plan for this and have exercise's on what to do when it happens and what to do after. Imagine how a place that has no plan would fair. 10 to 15 minutes I heard. Roads were clogged in some towns as they tried to flee and people on trains that are missing, 4 trains completely vanished,, never knew it was coming probably. The situation is the worst ever so the end result is going to be worst case I'd say. Nuclear plants were built to withstand an earthquake 5 times less than what they got so they screwed up big time there. I heard the ground was shaking so violently that you had to crawl as standing up was impossible.

U know what is the scariest part. They are the most prepared country for this type of natural disaster in the world and they got their lunch handed to them. This happening off the west coast would be many times worse. Scary stuff.

my point exactly you can't be prepared for such devastation and the same situation elsewhere would probably result in even worse results. They plan for this and have exercise's on what to do when it happens and what to do after. Imagine how a place that has no plan would fair. 10 to 15 minutes I heard. Roads were clogged in some towns as they tried to flee and people on trains that are missing, 4 trains completely vanished,, never knew it was coming probably. The situation is the worst ever so the end result is going to be worst case I'd say. Nuclear plants were built to withstand an earthquake 5 times less than what they got so they screwed up big time there. I heard the ground was shaking so violently that you had to crawl as standing up was impossible.

Can you imagine what kind of meetings are going on at US nuclear plants and agencies? Going to be some massive new regulations coming out of this. Japanese will probably move future plants inland, away from coast and imminent tsunami threat. But they will still need a source of water. I believe they are on the coast to utilize the seawater to cool the cooling (fresh) water circulated in the reactors. The country has massive debt, even before this diaster. Yes, even more than the US, by a lot. Contingency plan for something like this could never have been considered. Heck, what have we done in light of Katrina? But if any of the three crippled plants' reactors meltdown........it's just going to be bad, real bad.

Big difference between what is happening in Japan and say, Chernobyl.

Actual failure of the reactor core is unlikely:

You should read this: https://morgsatlarge.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/why-i-am-not-worried-about-japans-nuclear-reactors/

Big difference between what is happening in Japan and say, Chernobyl.

Actual failure of the reactor core is unlikely:

You should read this: https://morgsatlarge.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/why-i-am-not-worried-about-japans-nuclear-reactors/


I don't think we are getting enough info to really know, John. Just had a blast at Reactor #3. Hydrogen explosion that blew out the concrete exterior. And the experts say this is actually a good thing as it relieves the building pressure. It tells me that it is out of control....
Also a new tsunami warning just put up for 3 meter waves.....

damn... YouTube - New dramatic video: Tsunami wave spills over seawall, smashes boats, cars (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-zfCBCq-8I)

It changed time in the world.

Earth's day length shortened by Japan earthquake - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/13/scitech/main20042590.shtml)

I told my 16 yo last night as we watched videos and pictures that this is probably the largest disaster to strike in my entire life and quite possibly his and it's going to get alot worse before it gets better. Radiation clouds can easily cross the Pacific...

I'm betting at the minimum there will be another VERY large quake somewhere on the other side of the ring of fire within the next few months...



I have a question that I haven't been able to answer.... Maybe Mr Oakley can chip in with some professor geoisms...

If there was a mile wide whirlpool that was s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g down sea water....where does the water go..does it stay underground now forever and does the ocean level now drop because of the water? Or does it maintain the level of ocean height and filter back into the environment?

I don't think we are getting enough info to really know, John. Just had a blast at Reactor #3. Hydrogen explosion that blew out the concrete exterior. And the experts say this is actually a good thing as it relieves the building pressure. It tells me that it is out of control....
Also a new tsunami warning just put up for 3 meter waves.....

Ross, read the link I posted. I'm no nuke but some of the nukes I've been following recommend that article as a pretty good primmer on whats happening.

Short version, none of the cores is going to go critical, they are all slowly cooling down. The 2 with the major issues now are being cooled with far from pure saltwater. The heat in the reactor, well short of creating fission and cooling, is still enough to separate the H2O into hydrogen and oxygen. When that is vented to the atmo/outer containment building (not pressure containment) that is what is exploding. The cores are still cooling down but are taking longer due to the tsunami and quake wiping out primary, secondary, and tertiary cooling systems.

Here's a GREAT article I just read that is very informative. Good read.

After the tsunami, the nuclear threat: Radiation fear as two more N-plants are hit by failures | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1365781/After-tsunami-nuclear-threat-Radiation-fear-N-plants-hit-failures.html)

Cascadia @ western USA may be next
as when one goes (faults) the others tend to follow

Cascadia @ western USA may be next
as when one goes (faults) the others tend to follow

Heard a report/prediction that if you visualize the Pacific plate as having 4 corners, all 4 corners historically seem to have a "correction" in concert. So far 3 of the 4 corners have had events recently: Chile, NZ, Japan. The 4th corner is what Raven states.

it has happened at close to 200 year intervals and they are over 300
years now since the last correction.

here is what they really dont want you to know,

:rotf2::rotf2::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:



I can totally hear Godzilla!!!

There have only ever been 4 recorded higher than 8.9 since I guess they had the ability to measure going back to the mid 1700. 3 of these were in fairly remote areas but one was in Indonesia recently. I doubt indonesia has the population density of Japan.

The deadliest earthquake was in a populated area of China. It was only an 8.0 . You got to figure that one 10 times stronger in a densely populated area like japan is going to affect a lot of people. Hopefully the better infrastructure of Japan vs China will mean more rescued , less diseases after , etc. Luckily , this one's center was a long way off the coast not on the land but the down side of that is that being in the water , it caused the tsunami.

The 8 foot shift is the type of thing they are worried about as the moon sweeps by so close during the coming 2 weeks. They liken it to a high tide but it will be the land rising and falling as well as the oceans of course. Lots of earthquakes are do to a pinned area of the faults letting go. There is a tremendous amount of energy stored when a strong pin locks in the land masses that are trying to slide across one another. the huge shifts expected do to the added moon pull can cause these pinned faults to unlock and slide a lot all at once.

lets hope there are no more as big as this one in Japan.

They say New England is not immune. We haven't had a bad earthquake in a long time but some say its do to a strong pin and that when or if it lets go , we could experience a really big one. Of course the most famous one talked about in the USA is the San Andreas fault in california that people say will "cause part of Caifornia to fall into the pacific ocean." Events like this one in japan make it seem a lot more feasible than just what is mentioned in Sci Fi movies.

As we all know its only a matter of time before it happens here. I remember seeing something on landslides coming from Africa? Mentioned if it happened the sea surge would reach 5 miles in in the Boston area. There is a piece on this link from the Canary Islands, interesting read

Atlantic Ocean Tsunami Threat from Earthquakes, Landslides (http://geology.com/noaa/atlantic-ocean-tsunami/)

If there was a mile wide whirlpool that was s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g down sea water....where does the water go..does it stay underground now forever and does the ocean level now drop because of the water? Or does it maintain the level of ocean height and filter back into the environment?

It actually displaces the water, which generates the energy for the tsunami. If you imaging the length of the fault, x the displacement (8ft) all of the displaced water does not go into the crust.

it is a subduction zone, and water circulates down into the earth (crust and mantle) as the ocean floor is subducted under Japan, but it is mostly in the pore spaces of the sediment on the ocean floor and in the cracks in the underlying rocks..

but.. caveat.. I'm a glacial/coastal guy.. not a seismologist!

what are they gonna do with this enormous amount of debris?

i mean they are an ISLAND and allot of the material was imported
over many years so that means huge Barges and euks trucks hauling it where
to the ocean? China wont touch it now that it's radio active. :huh:

Burn it is my guess
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"China wont touch it now that it's radio active."

R u kidding me?

They'll eat this stuff up. It'll be in your kids toys next year.

tnx Brian didn't understand how that worked.

It actually displaces the water, which generates the energy for the tsunami. If you imaging the length of the fault, x the displacement (8ft) all of the displaced water does not go into the crust.

it is a subduction zone, and water circulates down into the earth (crust and mantle) as the ocean floor is subducted under Japan, but it is mostly in the pore spaces of the sediment on the ocean floor and in the cracks in the underlying rocks..

but.. caveat.. I'm a glacial/coastal guy.. not a seismologist!


So is the speed of the tsunami, english meaning is death wave, like a wave going thr speed of sound minus the friction caused by the water itself.

Scarie stuff this. 8 ft #^&#^&#^&#^& of that much land is gonna cause a problem someplace else on this marble we live on. Take a frisbee and put a piece of gum under the lip and throw it. Wobbles like a drunken top. We learned about that in college. Where is the gum gonna cause the next peoblems. that's only a few trillion billion tons of land that moves 8 ft over.

Watch this video. Never seen anything like this in my life. Water pulsating out of the ground.

Gotta Watch: iReporters capture scope of quake – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/14/gotta-watch-ireporters-capture-scope-of-quake/?hpt=C2)

The dome blew off a second reactor today. Explosion shot it 1000 feet into the air. It is unreal..That will likely lead to melt down at least in part as the fuel is still there and can't be flooded.

With no nuke power, that area will be without power for a long long time. It takes a good 10-15 years to build a plant to today's standards. That is once the actually get a license to build one. (add another 10 years)....
Those boiling water reactors are vintage (like Vermont Yankee). So there is no going back. They will be in a world of hurt for 20-30 years.

My company is looking for nuclear engineers (volunteers) in our group to go and work there. I don't think anyone is going to sign up.
I know I'm not.

Booger:
this should help clarify

http://www.iris.edu/hq/files/programs/education_and_outreach/retm/tm_110311_japan/Subduction_GPS_IslandArc.mov

Go into Google Earth, go to the big Earthquake icon off Sendai, and download the KMZ for the before / after satellite images. Damage is unreal.

Heard a report/prediction that if you visualize the Pacific plate as having 4 corners, all 4 corners historically seem to have a "correction" in concert. So far 3 of the 4 corners have had events recently: Chile, NZ, Japan. The 4th corner is what Raven states.

Don't forget the 67 Alaskan earthquake.

Ross, read the link I posted. I'm no nuke but some of the nukes I've been following recommend that article as a pretty good primmer on whats happening.

Short version, none of the cores is going to go critical, they are all slowly cooling down. The 2 with the major issues now are being cooled with far from pure saltwater. The heat in the reactor, well short of creating fission and cooling, is still enough to separate the H2O into hydrogen and oxygen. When that is vented to the atmo/outer containment building (not pressure containment) that is what is exploding. The cores are still cooling down but are taking longer due to the tsunami and quake wiping out primary, secondary, and tertiary cooling systems.

I read it, John. Just not a believer. Another explosion just now in #2. Rods are exposed. I think a breach is possible, and that is, IMO, critical. No infrastructure to get whatever materials they need to fight this into place. I think they're screwed as far as keeping that plant under control. As I said, we are not getting the real story in realtime.

NPR reported this morning no gas for firetrucks

Not that the firetrucks can drive anywhere due to the debris everywhere!

Not that the firetrucks can drive anywhere due to the debris everywhere!

Pumpin water can't do it without fuel

I read it, John. Just not a believer. Another explosion just now in #2. Rods are exposed. I think a breach is possible, and that is, IMO, critical. No infrastructure to get whatever materials they need to fight this into place. I think they're screwed as far as keeping that plant under control. As I said, we are not getting the real story in realtime.

I understand, but it is not a Chernobyl-case type incident. It really sucks and it will really suck even more with the potential to greatly suck. But it is not Chernobyl. There is also a lot of significantly bad info out there...

Just had another explosiion at #2 717pm

4th reactor just reported to be on fire now....a fourth reactor! Man can it get much worse.....unfortunately I think it will. Very, very sad indeed.

damn... YouTube - New dramatic video: Tsunami wave spills over seawall, smashes boats, cars (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-zfCBCq-8I)




Man this footage is unreal !
At around 1 minute that what I'm guessing a 60ft boat sucked under the bridge is amazing !
Looks like a toy getting tossed around !
Looked like the 2nd bigger boat was about to get sucked under bridge and you can see cars driving over the bridge.

4th reactor was reported down for service with 5 and 6 so hopefully this is just facility based and the reactor is supposedly offline.

Problems on 2 are reported to indicate a breach in the primary containment unit. This is bad. Not Chernobyl bad but worse than T.M.I. bad.

From one of our carriers in Yokosuka (close to Tokyo, about 150mi SSW of the plant):

From the CO, Fleet Activities Yokosuka:

****** FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE *******
.by Commander Fleet Activities Yokosuka on Monday, March 14, 2011 at 6:44pm.At approximately 0700 local (Japan) time, 15 March 2011, sensitive instrumentation on USS GEORGE WASHINGTON (CVN 73) pier-side in Yokosuka, detected low levels of radioactivity from the Fukushima Dai-Ichi Nuclear Power Plant. While there is no danger to the public, Commander, Naval Forces Japan is recommending limited precautionary measures for personnel on Fleet Activities Yokosuka and Naval Air Facility Atsugi, including:

A. Limiting outdoor activities.

B. Securing external ventilation systems as much as practical.

These measures are strictly precautionary in nature. We do not expect that any United States Federal radiation exposure limits will be exceeded even if no precautionary measures are taken. We are continuing to analyze the situation and will update you as we learn more.

Here's an analogy most fisherman may understand.

If you have ever melted lead to make sinkers , you know you can smell the lead. If you are a little above the melting , the lead smell is evident but if you screw up and get that lead a few hundred degrees above its melting point , the lead smell just reeks.

No heres why.

Atoms are always bouncing around and above the large masses there are actual atoms of the material that are in the air. Now we don't think of it as a vapor but in fact , there is some amount of vapor above even solids at room temp. Now as the materal nears its melting point , the amount of atoms as vapor above the solid surface goes up. When the material melts , there is a huge jump in the number of atooms that are vapor above the liquid , many times more than above the solid. Now as the liquid gets hotter and hotter above it original melting point , the vapor pressure (amount of atoms that are vapor) goes up at some exponential rate.

THe really bad Nuke stuff is the fuel itself that can melt (meltdown) if the control rods cannot slow the fission reaction and if the water cannot take away the heat. Too much heat and the uranium , etc melts and then its vapor pressure sky rockets. The vapor pressure can easily be envisioned as number of atoms , each one highly radioactive and deadly.

Now if you can keep the stuuf from actually melting , you can avoid the huge jump in the vapor pressure but remember , there is still some vapor pressore above the solid and its more , the hotter the solid , just like its more the hotter the liquid. So you do everything you can to keep those temps from going so high the stuff melts. Water is the coolant. However , its not going to cool the whole blob of fission material evenly. Some places are very hot , hot enough to first form steam , then the steam breaks down to H and O and then Boom. You have to take the risk of these H explosions (Actually are explosions) and steam explosions (too much water pressure in a sealed vessel and it bursts , what many would call an explosion too) because you have to try to keep everything cool as possible and try at all cost not to have molten uranium with no water on top of it because molten uranium without the water cover is going to be boiling off the most radioactive vapor aotms.


The whole thing is a nightmare as you risk lives and small explosions to prevent the big meltdown.

Now I don't think there is any way the reactor core can actually explode like an A bomb if that is what people are worrying about. That is actually something that is pretty hard to get started even when you want it to happen. . The biggest worry is the spread of the radioactive metals , etc if the core melts with a failure of both coolant and containment structures.

Now other stuff pics up radiation from the uranium. Th8ngs like the salt and other solids in the water. I'm not sure but I believe the water can actually get irradiated. Most of the time , this is a low level of radiation compared to the actual uranium . Some things , particularly heavy atoms , can pick up a lot of radiation. Its likely at this point that the radiation picked up by the Navy is from escaping water vapor and the contaminents in the water. Hopefully there isn't too much actual uranium atoms getting out.

Scratch facility fire at Reactor 4

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/world/asia/16nuclear.html?hp

That fourth reactor had been turned off and was under refurbishment for months before the earthquake and tsunami hit the plant on Friday. But the plant contains spent fuel rods that were removed from the reactor, and experts guessed that the pool containing those rods had run dry, allowing the rods to overheat and catch fire. That is almost as dangerous as the fuel in working reactors melting down, because the spent fuel can also spew radioactivity into the atmosphere.

Pressure in 2 Reactor basically at nil? Game over.

What most don't realize here is there was/is a working earthquake system on each of these plants which went off on all but one plant. When the sensors detect the earthquake they immediately drop Boron rods into the vessel to stop the reaction. Right now no reaction is taking place (planned) but you have to understand it takes days and WEEKS to cool this down normally from it's core operating temperature.

Google Boron and nuclear meltdown....it's pretty interesting.

The core temperature has to be over 4000 degrees F to melt the rods. I've seen numbers of 1000 and 2000 degrees discussed so far. The cores are cooling but it's going to take some serious time...

4th reactor was reported down for service with 5 and 6 so hopefully this is just facility based and the reactor is supposedly offline.

Apparently it doesn't matter that reactors 4, 5, & 6 were off-line, they all still have fuel inside and are also overheating. ALL 6 REACTORS ARE IN JEOPARDY!!!

The Unit 4 reactor at the Fukushima Dai-ichi power plant caught fire earlier Tuesday and is believed to have caused a release of dangerous levels of radioactivity in the immediate area. Elevated radioactivity readings in surrounding regions were not high enough to pose a health threat, the government said.

Unit 4 was not operating at the time of the tsunami, but its backup power systems failed afterward, preventing cooling systems from working properly. Three reactors already have been wrecked by explosions and nuclear officials confirmed that temperatures in two other reactors that had been shut down for inspections were also rising.

The temperature of the water in the spent fuel storage pool for Unit 4 was 183 degrees Fahrenheit (84 degrees Celsius) on Monday, when it was last measured. No measurements have been available since then, Nishiyama said.

What most don't realize here is there was/is a working earthquake system on each of these plants which went off on all but one plant. When the sensors detect the earthquake they immediately drop Boron rods into the vessel to stop the reaction. Right now no reaction is taking place (planned) but you have to understand it takes days and WEEKS to cool this down normally from it's core operating temperature.

Google Boron and nuclear meltdown....it's pretty interesting.
I believe the new plants even use a boron slurry as an extra measure. But all of this assumes the rods are submerged I believe...which is the issue.

Not looking good this morning. Let's hope for prevailing winds...

-spence

spent fuel pool now boiling!!

Bad Bad Bad,

USS G Washington detects low levels of radioactivity 175 miles from plant:

Tokyo (CNN) -- U.S. Navy personnel are taking precautionary measures after instruments aboard an aircraft carrier docked in Japan detected low levels of radioactivity from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, the Navy said Tuesday.
The USS George Washington was docked for maintenance in Yokosuka, about 175 miles (280 kilometers) from the plant in Okuma, when instruments detected the radiation at 7 a.m. Tuesday (6 p.m. ET Monday), the Navy said in a statement.

PRB - yes, the spent fuel pool became uncovered and caused a fire / radioactive spike.

Water is the coolant. However , its not going to cool the whole blob of fission material evenly. Some places are very hot , hot enough to first form steam , then the steam breaks down to H and O and then Boom. You have to take the risk of these H explosions (Actually are explosions) and steam explosions (too much water pressure in a sealed vessel and it bursts , what many would call an explosion too) because you have to try to keep everything cool as possible and try at all cost not to have molten uranium with no water on top of it because molten uranium without the water cover is going to be boiling off the most radioactive vapor aotms..

Good stuff.

And yes people think a plant can blowup like a nuclear bomb--NOT--.

In the case of the rods used in this older plant, they are coated with an alloy call zircalloy (sp?). This coating is supposed to help scavange hydrogen. Many plants that are this type (BWR) boiling water reactors have hydrogen problems ie. keeping it as low as possible and have various systems to midigate the gas.

But now that this reactor is superheating, the coating itself is breaking down, and oxidizing. That reaction creates even more hydrogen than breakdown of the cooling water. The explosion yesterday that blew the dome off was a hydrogen gas explosion.

Modern plants are (PWRs) pressurized water reactors. Much easier to control and less chance of environmental contamination as they are two separate systems, one for the reactor, one for the turbines.

I'm not sure yet, but I think they are calling this the worst nuclear disaster in history. If not yet they will......

Verizon is letting you view the news on channel 1770, they had good illustrations of the nuclear plants. Explaining low water in the spent fuel rods storage area.

amen to that

what truly magnificent people, no rioting, no chaos, no political blame game. there is a reason a small country like Japan is a world leader in the global economy. Just 60 yrs ago they rebuilt their entire country and Im sure they will rebuild and be stronger. The world could learn a lot by watching this country.

Something to be said about being raised w/ values

After the earthquake and tsunami, there were difficulties powering the cooling system for unit 1 of the Fukushima Daiichi plant. After a buildup of hydrogen gas in the secondary containment structure at the plant, there was an explosion at that reactor on March 12.

The explosion caused a breach in the secondary containment. However, the primary containment that houses and protects the reactor vessel and fuel remains intact and is safe. This structure is made of steel and is extremely robust. The primary and secondary containment are designed to prevent radiation from being released into the environment in the case of an accident. However, TEPCO intentionally vented steam from the secondary containment building in an effort to reduce pressure in that building. For a diagram of the reactor type used at Fukushima Daiichi, click here.

It appears that as the level of coolant in the reactor vessel lowered, a portion of the top of the uranium fuel rods was exposed. This may have caused zirconium cladding of the fuel rods to react with water to create hydrogen. This hydrogen was vented, then somehow ignited, causing the explosion.

As the explosion did not occur inside the reactor core—and the primary containment was not breached—there has not been a significant public health impact from the release of radiation from the containment structure.

Reactors 2 and 3 at Fukushima Daiichi were shut down in response to the earthquake. Units 4, 5 and 6 had been shut down prior to the earthquake for inspections and scheduled outages.

Starting to look better than expected.

UPDATE AS OF 10:20 A.M. EDT, TUESDAY, MARCH 15:
The level of radioactivity at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant has been decreasing, according to the International Atomic Energy Agency. At 8 p.m. EDT March 15, a dose rate of 1,190 millirem per hour was observed. Six hours later, the dose rate was 60 millirem per hour, IAEA said. About 150 residents near the Fukushima Daiichi site have been checked for radiation and 23 have been decontaminated. Japanese authorities have distributed potassium iodide tablets to evacuation center (see this page for more information on potassium iodide). If taken within several hours of ingesting radioactive iodine, potassium iodide can protect the thyroid gland.


UPDATE AS OF 9:15 A.M. EDT, TUESDAY, MARCH 15:
Fukushima Daiichi
Units 1 and 3 at Fukushima Daiichi are stable and cooling is being maintained through seawater injection. Primary containment integrity has been maintained on both reactors. The Japan Atomic Energy Agency (JAEA) reported an explosion in the suppression pool at Fukushima Daiichi Unit 2, at 7:14 p.m. EDT on March 14. Reactor water level was reported to be at 2.7 meters below the top of the fuel. The pressure in the suppression pool decreased from 3 atmospheres to 1 atmosphere. Radiation readings at the site increased to 96 millirem per hour. Dose rates at Fukushima Daiichi as reported at 10:22 p.m. EDT on March 14 were:

Near Unit 3 reactor building 40 rem/hr
Near Unit 4 reactor building 10 rem/hr
At site boundary 821 millirem/hr.
Kitaibaraki (200 km south of site) 0.4 millirem/hr.

We are working on getting updated information on radiation and dose rates at and near the plant. Station personnel not directly supporting reactor recovery efforts have been evacuated, leaving approximately 50 staff members at the site. Operators are no longer in the main control room due to high radiation levels. Safety relief valves were able to be re-opened and seawater injection into the reactor core was restarted around 1 a.m. EDT on March 15 and is continuing.
At Unit 4 on March 14 at approximately 8:38 p.m. EDT, a fire was reported in the reactor building. It is believed to have been from a lube oil leak in a system that drives recirculation water pumps. Fire fighting efforts extinguished the fire. The roof of the reactor building was damaged.

Fukushima Daini
All four reactors at Fukushima Daini are being maintained with normal cooling using residual heat removal systems.

The Japan Atomic Energy Agency (JAEA) reported an explosion in the suppression pool at Fukushima Daiichi Unit 2, at 7:14 p.m. EDT on March 14. Reactor water level was reported to be at 2.7 meters below the top of the fuel. The pressure in the suppression pool decreased from 3 atmospheres to 1 atmosphere. Radiation readings at the site increased to 96 millirem per hour.

Not good for Reactor 2 to be at 1 atmosphere - would indicate a leak in primary containment - no? That's bad. Explosion of R2's spent fuel pool. Bad. Real bad.

Good news on Reactor 4 not being SFP.

Good news is 3 reactors fairly cool so they are working serious problems on only 3 and not 4 as discussed last night / earlier today.

Real bad for remaining personnel onsite, real bad Control Room is too contaminated to occupy.

If things go SWIMMINGLY well, they will be cooling those reactors for a long time to come. I've read that weeks / months of dealing with "Decay Heat" will be in the cards even though no fission is occurring.

Go into Google Earth, go to the big Earthquake icon off Sendai, and download the KMZ for the before / after satellite images. Damage is unreal.

John, how do you d/l the KMZ? Can't figure it out. Clicking on the icon just gives me a USGS popup.

what truly magnificent people, no rioting, no chaos, no political blame game. there is a reason a small country like Japan is a world leader in the global economy. Just 60 yrs ago they rebuilt their entire country and Im sure they will rebuild and be stronger. The world could learn a lot by watching this country.

Also no looting, no crime, no complaining as they wait hours in line for water that runs out before they can get any.... Can you imagine what it would be like if it were here?

Wonder what will happen to the tuna fishery? Radioactive effect on the local tuna grounds? Effect on prices this summer at the Tokyo fish markets. How could this effect the tuna fishing here on our east coast?

John, how do you d/l the KMZ? Can't figure it out. Clicking on the icon just gives me a USGS popup.


Click on quake icon east of Sendai 38D 19' N // 142D 21' E - click on Japan Earthquake - even more links added since yesterday.

I meant KML: http://google-earth-fake-url-for-links.google.com/http%3A%2F%2Fmw1.google.com%2Fcrisisresponse%2F201 1%2Fjapan_earthquake_2011%2Fearthquake%2Fgoogle%2F Japan_earthquake2011_nl.kml

I've been over there and I can tell you they are the nicest, most respectful, polite and cleanest culture I’ve ever seen. You could eat off the floor of the subway stations. No graffiti, no trash, no disrespect, just all out good people.
It shows a lot about a culture with all the adversity there is still some sense of order. I wouldn’t want to think what some of the animals in this country would do if faced with the same disasters. Just think back to Katrina and what happened, people had no respect……………a city here can’t even win a sports title without a riot. I think we can all learn a lot as a counrty from them.

They are going to rebuild and will do a lot of it themselves. I saw today the damage estimates are $180 Billion. Crazy numbers......

The fuel is not like just molten metal that cools and that's it. The nuclear activity keeps going on. Almost never stops without some absorbers (like the boron control rods) to soak up excess nuetrons , tec. because it keeps having nuclear activity , it needs to be continuously cooled. There is going to be ups and downs at all the reactors as things cool , melt , move , etc. They will need to watch this for a long time.

As far as I know , there has not been a leak from a primary containment vessel. There is almost certainly a leak from the secondary containment vessel of one of them. That is not good!. Think of a big steel ball inside a big concrete casket (I use that word purposely). The primary vessel as has been posted , is very thick steel. It sometimes has steel cable wrapped around the thick steel for further reinforcement. Hopefully that stays sealed and the really Hot (as in radioactively hot , not just temperature) stuff stays inside. Now by necessity there are pipes and other I?O areas so these are weak points and they could leak.

The secondary containment vessel is essentially a big concrete ball sitting in a concrete bathtub. Its usually the bottom of these seconday vessals that you need to worry about. The heat , the shaking and moving during the quakes , shock from hot to cold as coolant is there and then not , can lead to the concrete cracking or breaking open in areas. Obviously this is not good. I believe there is no doubt at all that one of the secondary containment structures has failed.

I have been to japan many times. The big difference there is that people believe in individual honor and they believe that others should be treated with respect. Those of course are values we hope to impart to children at home , in schools , in sports , etc. We could do a better job but most people do at least see the value in honor and respect and try to impart those ideals to their children. I think it must be taught and become part of a value system while young. Few people suddenly become "noble" . You need to grow that in them over a long period of time.

another article with some pics....graphic

Japan tsunami and earthquake: Haunting mages as 450 Britons feared missing | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1366395/Japan-tsunami-earthquake-Haunting-mages-450-Britons-feared-missing.html)

COMPLETE PULL OUT IN THE NUKE COMPLEX. They're in serious trouble now. Much worse than anything in the last few days. :(

"It's not like you wait 10 days and the radiation goes away. In that 10 days things are going to get worse."

"It's basically a sign that there's nothing left to do but throw in the towel,"

Japan suspends work at stricken nuclear plant - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_japan_earthquake)



Meanwhile, the outer housing of the containment vessel at the No. 4 unit erupted in flames early Wednesday, said Hajimi Motujuku, a spokesman for the plant's operator, Tokyo Electric Power Co.

I would tend to think this VERY bad...Possible rupture of the vessel already?

Channel 7 news this am.....top story...."T employee polishing nails while on duty"........then the nuclear disaster in Japan??? Nails? Radioactivity? Nails? Nuclear Meltdown?? Hmmmmm......which story should top the news???:smash:

they'll just come here to eat all the tuna sushi instead.

if i had the capital i'd be investing into the company that sells the radio active detection equipment because everyone in the food industry is gonna want one. :uhuh:

Last week i stopped into the health food store and there was a little old lady standing in line who was severely bent over "permanently"
who had to almost be 100 .....i'd wager...

She dropped her envelope and was reaching for it but it was just impossible for her to stretch any further to grab it off the floor.
i extended her every courtesy and lifted it up to her hand....

she wanted to buy iodine at the counter

Obama will fix it. He can fix anything.

Wonder what will happen to the tuna fishery? Radioactive effect on the local tuna grounds? Effect on prices this summer at the Tokyo fish markets. How could this effect the tuna fishing here on our east coast?


Probably nothing, sometimes times tuna (and other fish) are radiated to kill off parasites and bacteria living in the flesh. Most of the time they are just deeply frozen solid. As far as radiation effecting the fish in the sea...I would not worry about that. It will just make fish caught off cape cod more valuable...(and per the news) until the plant in Plymouth melts down and then its game over. We better be taking Potassium iodide pills just in case:jump1:

Yea but there's a difference between irridiating with something that has a half life of a few days and something with a half life of 200 years...

Salty you're always looking at the dark side...think of the added shelf life!

And it glows too :devil2:

Salty you're always looking at the dark side...think of the added shelf life!

CNBC just posted a list of the most dangerous nuke plants in the US that could have have problems like Japan.


number 2 on the list was Plymouth Ma, they mentioned odds of 1 in 75000 chance on any given day of a meltdown. This is bad news because it means that this nuke plant will melt down about 4000 times BEFORE I win powerball!

Better get the pills out.

Bay Area Sushi Bars Face Daunting Supply Shortages CBS San Francisco (http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/03/15/bay-area-sushi-bars-face-daunting-supply-shortages/)

They're out of sushi. OMG what are they gonna do now

number 2 on the list was Plymouth Ma, they mentioned odds of 1 in 75000 chance on any given day of a meltdown. This is bad news because it means that this nuke plant will melt down about 4000 times BEFORE I win powerball!

Better get the pills out.

YouTube - Feast on the goo inside? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axXvxpzMe_0)

Newly Released Images Show Devastated Nuclear Reactors (http://www.prisonplanet.com/newly-released-images-show-devastated-nuclear-reactors.html)

"UPDATE: It is important to stress that 40 years’ worth of deadly spent fuel rods that would have been blown sky high by the blasts were stored in the roof of the facilities you see devastated in these images. "

If this is true this extremely serious. More than they are letting on..That's alot of radiation.

They are basically evacuating the facility.

GAME OVER MAN.......:shocked:

Official report as of 3/15 on all reactors

From the recent reports it seems like praying for a miracle isn't out of the question.

This is heading towards being a lot worse than Chernobyl, although the fall out looks to be more over the ocean if they're lucky.

Even after a meltdown and they encase the place in concrete, I read they have to wait 3 YEARS before they can remove the radioactive material.

-spence

if i lived in alaska or washington, id be moving east...

My brother in law is retired Navy who now works as a civilian contractor for the Navy in Yokosuka. His descriptions of the quake and the aftermath are chilling.

We've been getting daily emails on the situation. US personel @ the base have been told to stay indoors, seal openings, etc. since they have detected lower radiation levels @ the base. Everyone is hunkered down "waiting".

The carrier Regan is serving as a main base of operations for air assistance while many smaller ships are assisting in the grim task of recovery of bodies swept offshore. Because of elevated radiation levels ships are deploying out of the path of the prevailing winds.

For those critical of "our" government response be assured that all available means of assistance are currently being provided and efforts are being ramped up as quickly as is logistically possible. Nobody is asleep at the switch on this.

"what truly magnificent people, no rioting, no chaos, no political blame game"

He ended his last email on this note and emphasized the point by telling my wife "the people of Japan" are the reason he chose to live in Japan.

My brother in law is retired Navy who now works as a civilian contractor for the Navy in Yokosuka. His descriptions of the quake and the aftermath are chilling.

We've been getting daily emails on the situation. US personel @ the base have been told to stay indoors, seal openings, etc. since they have detected lower radiation levels @ the base. Everyone is hunkered down "waiting".

The carrier Regan is serving as a main base of operations for air assistance while many smaller ships are assisting in the grim task of recovery of bodies swept offshore. Because of elevated radiation levels ships are deploying out of the path of the prevailing winds.

For those critical of "our" government response be assured that all available means of assistance are currently being provided and efforts are being ramped up as quickly as is logistically possible. Nobody is asleep at the switch on this.

"what truly magnificent people, no rioting, no chaos, no political blame game"

He ended his last email on this note and emphasized the point by telling my wife "the people of Japan" are the reason he chose to live in Japan.

:btu:

Official report as of 3/15 on all reactors

Same status report from 2days ago.

Nightly News is now using the term "apocalyptic" catastrophe in the making....there are 50 heroes consigned to sacrificing their own lives to try and save the (4) plants.

Just read that they used Plutonium as part of the fuel when reactor 3 was built.

That's the first really dumb thing I have heard coming out of there. All the rest is a reaction to a rare huge natural catastrophy. The concious choice years ago to use Plutonium as part of the fuel mix is liable to be one of the worst science/engineering decisions of modern times.

Time to say some prayers for some badly needed good luck.

I saw that they were using helicopters to dump water on the plants. Getting it from the ocean, that is mighty close. I couldnt help but think that it would be a good idea to use some pumps and hoses. Keeping a steady supply of water going if needed.

I couldnt help but think that it would be a good idea to use some pumps and hoses. Keeping a steady supply of water going if needed.

No electricity, batteries or gas/diesel to run pumps that is the whole reason behind the melt down!

The heli's only did one or 2 drops: rad exposure too high for the crew.

I got to wonder the effects this is going to have on the world economy.
Haven't bought a sheet of plywood or any other lumber as one example in a long time.
I would guess lots of those types of things are going to see a big spike in price here.
Another example, getting Toyota & Subaru parts may be a problem.

Have you seen this??

Dog in Japan stays by the side of its ailing friend in the rubble - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/dog-in-japan-stays-by-the-side-of-its-ailing-friend-in-the-rubble)

Have you seen this??

Dog in Japan stays by the side of its ailing friend in the rubble - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/dog-in-japan-stays-by-the-side-of-its-ailing-friend-in-the-rubble)

Saw that one on the news last night, more than can be said about some people. No I am not referring to the Japanese, people around the world should be looking at the proud way in which that island's people are conducting themselves in light of the tragedy all around them.

PAnd eople around here beat the crap out of somebody to get a good price on a laptop at X-Mas time......

A vivid glimps at what is probably happening to people all over the area not just pets.

Dogs are great. You got to love them. Smart enough to know help and protection is needed and willing to stay there with its disabled buddy despite its obvious need for potable water (notice it looking at the big water area and the little puddles etc as it approached the reporters and then returned to stand guard. Probably nothing but dirty and salt water everywhere.) Glad to hear they got rescued.

Channel 7 news this am.....top story...."T employee polishing nails while on duty"........then the nuclear disaster in Japan??? Nails? Radioactivity? Nails? Nuclear Meltdown?? Hmmmmm......which story should top the news???:smash:


WTF
This Japan earthquake/tsunami thing knocked Charlie Sheen off the lead story !

Japanese Coast guard video of wave

YouTube - Japan tsunami at sea (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpTajjOpyHk)

Japanese Coast guard video of wave

YouTube - Japan tsunami at sea (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpTajjOpyHk)


Ouch