Hi all,It will be illegal in Maine to use treble hooks when using live or dead bait when striper fishing in Maine.
It will be mandatory in Maine when fishing for Stripers that you use circle hooks when using live or dead bait.However this will not go into affect till Jan 1-2013 due to the fact that tackle shops have already invested in and inventory of J -hooks.
It will be prohibited to use more than 2 sets of treble hooks-barbless or barbed-on an artificial lure when fishing for stripers.
Maine is again taking the lead for less destructive measure for fishing for striped bass to help reduce the number needless dead released fish. Ron

I can only think of one lure that actually benefits from having 3 sets of trebles so it seems like a good proposal.

Kudos to Maine! They got it right. :love:

Hell, 20 years ago most of us took the rear treble off all our lures and replaced it with a single Siwash.

Thanks god there are still sensible people in this world. As Nebe said "Kudos to Maine"

I suspect it will be two hooks/plug rather than two hooks and a siwash.

Lots of classic plugs balance better with 3 hooks, but certainly there are ways around it and well worth the benefits if coupled with a ban on more deadly hooks used in bait.

I'm curious what the eel guys think, however. Is an octopus a true circle hook? Might they be banned as well?

I suspect it will be two hooks/plug rather than two hooks and a siwash.

Lots of classic plugs balance better with 3 hooks, but certainly there are ways around it and well worth the benefits if coupled with a ban on more deadly hooks used in bait.

I'm curious what the eel guys think, however. Is an octopus a true circle hook? Might they be banned as well?


I used Circles with eels 8-9 years ago and didn't like the results so I switched back but saw I was gut hooking a lot of fish again. 3-4 years ago switched back to Circles and I'm satisfied with results.

Very, very satisifed with the very high amount of fish hooked in the corner of the lip, quick releases, significantly few gut hooked (can't think of any at the moment).

Just to be devils advocate....but is too many treble hooks really what's leading to the issues with the Striper Stocks.

This to me just seems to be them "Throwing a Frikkin Bone" to people. There are much bigger issues that need to be addressed way before me choosing a 2 hook darter vs a 3 hook darter.

"This to me just seems to be them "Throwing a Frikkin Bone" to people. There are much bigger issues that need to be addressed way before me choosing a 2 hook darter vs a 3 hook darter."

It's merely a feel good effort - with little significance or impact. When an issue is difficult to address, throw out some of those "Frikkin Bones" - makes it appear that the problem is being addressed.

Kudos to Maine.

I know the Cape Cod Charter Boat Association has petitioned Ma DEM to make circle hooks mandatory for live bait as well.

I can understand the bait fishing requirement (except for eel fishing) but I guess you can always alter a circle hook. They should have left the plug hook requirements alone IMO. Too many variables with plugs.

DZ

This is like putting a Band-Aid on a broken arm or a dam that is forming leaks and about to break.

A bunch of ineffective patchwork that just adds more red tape while never really fixing the larger issue. Mortality is a bigger problem, in need of a broader "solution" than hook choice and number of hooks.

This is like putting a Band-Aid on a broken arm or a dam that is forming leaks and about to break.

A bunch of ineffective patchwork that just adds more red tape while never really fixing the larger issue. Mortality is a bigger problem, in need of a broader "solution" than hook choice and number of hooks.

Let's see. They have a slot limit and now this.. I'd say they are doing a he'll of a lot more in Maine than anywhere else.
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This targets the catch and release fisherman. Are they the real problem? This doesnt matter if you plan to kill the fish anyway. I dont know the Maine bag limit but if you reduced it to one fish it would have an exponentially larger impact.

And,

In a state w/ a slot limit, a move to reduce release mortality is a good step in the right direction.

I think the idea has been put before the RIMFC at least as a proposal before....

Let's see. They have a slot limit and now this.. I'd say they are doing a he'll of a lot more in Maine than anywhere else.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
If I pick up boxes on one side of the room and move them to the other side, I'm doing a whole lot more than someone that is sitting in the corner. Doesn't mean I actually accomplished anything.

Regulating minute details of how we fish isn't going to fix the broader problem of high mortality.

Apparently you have to be a northern state to institute sensible and easy fishing regulations. Alaska has been well documented as one of the leaders in our country and now Maine is doing something to in order to kill less fish needlessly.

Do I think gut hooking occurs a lot, no, but there are a decent amount of sand spike using bait fisherman that are too busy drinking beer to notice that there has been a fish on the end of his line for a good 30 seconds. And, if his fish ends up not being legal to take home he is going to have to put back a dead or dying fish. Circle hooks will help in this situation. I tend to think this type of regulation would be suitable for all fishermen that like to use clams, chum and chunk bait, or use eels.

There are some reports, true or not, that Catch and Release fishing is accountable for a lot of striper mortality. I personally do not believe this statement or NOAA's crappy assertions, but perhaps this is what led Maine to do something. I applaud them for their efforts and even though I do not agree with C & R mortality figures we all know that it does happen and Maine just did something to prevent unnecessary harm to the fish that we all love to catch.

being forced to use circle hooks for chunk bait would piss me off...no problem with the rest...

Too small of a step to have any measurable effect. Although it they are pointed in the right direction.

At this point I think it is too late to save the bass. The death spiral has begun and there is nothing that can be done, short of a complete shutdown that can get you out of it. They simply should have outlawed all hooks of any kind.

I haven't used a "J" style hook for baitfishing for close to 10 years.
I don't know what the problem is regarding the use of circle hooks.
They are easy to use and catch just as many RELEASABLE fish as "J" hooks.
However the reverse cannot be said, that "J" hooks are gut-hooked as much as circle hooks.
When I used "J" hooks, being able to release a fish unharmed was uncertain because you never knew where the hook would end up in the fish. Circle hooks are almost ALWAYS found in the corners of the mouth when used properly.

Any steps we take, even "baby steps", to help reduce fish mortality and increase the fish numbers will be a good thing.

I don't know. I do not do as much chunking as I used to but to me, a big part of bait fishing is the act of setting the hook. With circle hooks you lose that important aspect of fishing. I can agree with circle hooks for those who sand-spike or dead-stick as this leaves too much time for a fish to inhale and swallow a bait. But for me, the real thrill is "feeling" that pick-up and waiting a few seconds before setting the hook. That involves skill and technique, circle hooks reduces it to "reel in and land" which takes the fun out of it- at least for me.

I don't know. I do not do as much chunking as I used to but to me, a big part of bait fishing is the act of setting the hook. With circle hooks you lose that important aspect of fishing. I can agree with circle hooks for those who sand-spike or dead-stick as this leaves too much time for a fish to inhale and swallow a bait. But for me, the real thrill is "feeling" that pick-up and waiting a few seconds before setting the hook. That involves skill and technique, circle hooks reduces it to "reel in and land" which takes the fun out of it- at least for me.

You got it Spin - it will be interesting fishing a "riggie" equipped with circles. I envision lots of "swing and miss" sets.

Thing that scares me most is the precedent this might set. By 2015 you might only be able to fly fish in Maine with a barbless hook no larger than size 2. Too much goverment for me.

PETA will be all over this and push for more.

DZ

This is like putting a Band-Aid on a broken arm or a dam that is forming leaks and about to break.

A bunch of ineffective patchwork that just adds more red tape while never really fixing the larger issue. Mortality is a bigger problem, in need of a broader "solution" than hook choice and number of hooks.

Geez, JD. Could you be a little more negative? Maine is at least trying to do something. If this saves a few fish, it's worth it. It's a heck of a lot more than other states are doing concerning the SB stock. If you don't feel it's enough, you should start campaigning at the state house and writing letters in every second of your spare time. Or, you could just stop fishing for stripers (although that may have less of an effect than a bandaid on a decapitation:grins:).

I see this as a step in the right direction by some folks who at least are getting something done. Who knows? It may lead to more conservation measures down the line, or other states may follow suit. I definitely don't see it as a bad thing. And the more attention that's brought to the issue, the better.

Maine is just the first state... other states have been talking about circle hooks for years.. it's coming.. and I'm fine with that.... .... I only use J hooks for eel fishing... circles just dont cut it... at season end, you will have hooked far more eels than you do bass.. about 2:1... I've tried them several times over a period of years , and use them for everything else EXCEPT eels...and I gut hook very few bass, most are hooked in the roof or side of the mouth... I havent used a treble in a Mackerel for years, I came up with a sliding hook rig that I use with a pair of 8/0 circles that works awesome... I dont fish cut bait, so that is not an issue... as much as i like the keel effect of two belly hooks on my plugs, being a plug maker, I can adapt...whatever it takes for the health of the fishery is fine by me... now if we can only stop the waste that goes on on the wintering and spawning grounds.. we'd be onto something...

Is the new law in Maine a step in the right direction?
Sure, why not?

However, it's just a scratch on the surface. In order for a law like that to be effective, all of the "Striped Bass" states would have to adopt it.
Every state should have the same Striper regulations. . . .commercial and recreational.
Every state should have the same regulations regarding baitfish as well.

They both go together. You can't do one without the other.
Let's just say that we had a hypothetical situation, where all of the Striper states had a recreational limit of 1 fish per day, and slot limits, and the commercial limits were equally regulated.

So, in theory, we should have an explosion in the Striper population, but what are they going to be feeding on? What's going to sustain them if there's no bait.
The bait is being wiped out from every direction. . . .

It all has to go hand in hand.
Regulations are necessary, but in order for them to have an impact, everyone has to play by the same rules.

This can be done with Stripers since it's an American fish, not an International one. The Stripers live here, not anywhere else which means that we can control the fishery.

Maybe I have a strange outlook on things, or maybe I'm shell shocked beyond repair, but my opinion is this. . . .
The fisheries Internationally are in serious trouble, and nothing of any substance will be done about it until all of the countries in the world stop killing whales.

I'm not one of those "Save The Whales" guys. I'm just trying to make a point.
It's all about the mind set of conservation. When the whaling countries say to hell with culture and a thousand years of tradition, and stop killing the whales for "food", then and only then will I be able to feel confident about a true fisheries management.

As of now, there is no conservation to speak of. It's just a lot of words.
The game plan for the day is to rape the sea for every fish available.
Worry about it later. . . . .
Moog

Geez, JD. Could you be a little more negative? Maine is at least trying to do something. If this saves a few fish, it's worth it. It's a heck of a lot more than other states are doing concerning the SB stock. If you don't feel it's enough, you should start campaigning at the state house and writing letters in every second of your spare time. Or, you could just stop fishing for stripers (although that may have less of an effect than a bandaid on a decapitation:grins:).
My issue is this micro-managed type of policy making. They regulate for the sake of regulating under the guise of "it should help". If they want to decrease mortality, there are far more effective ways that don't consist of an ineffective patchwork of over-regulating the average fisherman.

Fisheries managers up and down the coast seem to be penny-wise and dollar-foolish when it comes to creating policy. People keep saying "well at least they are doing something" and I think that mentality is dangerous. With this, they will have their foot in the door dictating how to fish. What's next - all treble hooks are made illegal, no more bait, restrictions on gear you can use?

My issue is this micro-managed type of policy making. They regulate for the sake of regulating under the guise of "it should help". If they want to decrease mortality, there are far more effective ways that don't consist of an ineffective patchwork of over-regulating the average fisherman.

Fisheries managers up and down the coast seem to be penny-wise and dollar-foolish when it comes to creating policy. People keep saying "well at least they are doing something" and I think that mentality is dangerous. With this, they will have their foot in the door dictating how to fish. What's next - all treble hooks are made illegal, no more bait, restrictions on gear you can use?

Rome wasn't built in a day.

You have lots of gripes with what they're doing or not doing, but you don't seem to be putting in any effort on your part to improve things.

If I pick up boxes on one side of the room and move them to the other side, I'm doing a whole lot more than someone that is sitting in the corner. Doesn't mean I actually accomplished anything.

I wondered what you did all day!:rotf2:

I'm in Johnny's camp on this one...I just don't see what this really accomplishes. Like DZ said...too much government also

Rome wasn't built in a day.

You have lots of gripes with what they're doing or not doing, but you don't seem to be putting in any effort on your part to improve things.
I'll make sure to keep you updated on the phone calls and emails I send out and which meets I've attended to voice my concerns.

I'll take stake in JohnnD's camp also. It's a law that's next to impossible to regulate and there will be no return on the investment to advertise/document/enforce this.

1 @ 36" it's an attainable goal for fishermen, but sure ain't no gimme.

I've fished Maine for Stripers for the past 20 or so years. Unless they've changed it from last year you can keep 1 striper a day between 20 and 26 inches OR 1 "trophy" over 40 inches. This works well with me. I keep 2 or 3 fish all season in the 26" size and the fillets off one fish are perfect for feeding 3 or 4 people.
As far as the circle hook fishing goes...I get it, but I much prefer setting the hook. Out of every 20 fish I hook with a j hook I probably do gut hook one or two. If it helps, I'm for it, but I'll miss the set.

Joebass,

For a long time I've been a slot size proponent, but there is an overwhelming amount of chatter that the schoolies are dwindling in their normal haunts.

Let's make it a real challenge and go for 1 @ 40" from Maine to Virgina (and south if they go to Carolina's ) :fishin: :fishin:

[QUOTE=JohnnyD;848154]My issue is this micro-managed type of policy making. They regulate for the sake of regulating under the guise of "it should help". If they want to decrease mortality, there are far more effective ways that don't consist of an ineffective patchwork of over-regulating the average fisherman.

What are these "far more effective ways"?

Will rigged eels even work with circle hooks?
Will I get in trouble if I go to Maine with a rigged eel with J-hooks?
I'd rather fish a little closer anyways.

What are these "far more effective ways"?
1 @ 36"
5 year suspension of your comm or rec license for poaching

1 @ 36"
5 year suspension of your comm or rec license for poaching

I'd love to see 1 @36 coastwide. I'd also like to see the baitfish situation fixed.

As for a 5 year suspension, do you really believe that would have an impact? Probably less than changing hooks in Maine. If someone will poach, they probably won't give much thought to continuing to do it without a license. And you know that enforcing it would be near impossible.

As for a 5 year suspension, do you really believe that would have an impact? Probably less than changing hooks in Maine. If someone will poach, they probably won't give much thought to continuing to do it without a license. And you know that enforcing it would be near impossible.
I don't think it'd matter for recs, just allow EPs to give out fines for fishing without a license. For comms though, they'll be risking their livelihood by poaching. Either that or hit them where it really hurts - big fine for the first offense and you lose your boat/gear on the second offense.

With the way things are now, the poachers merely get a slap on the write and consider these small fines a cost of doing business.

LOL WOW. I'm impressed by the number of anglers that will go against any positive action to protect even a single striper. I've got an idea let's just kill every one of them and then sit around blaming everyone else for it.1 fish a day. A 40 incher if your lucky but oooopppps we don't get them hardly anymore in Maine since the commercial rod n reel fishing started and there being a charter boat on every square foot of water south of us. Most chunkers and commercials use trebles MMMMMM wonder why they don't want to stop using trebles bait fishing.
Yes it's a very small step by a state that see's less than 1/10 of a percent of the striper landings as most other states south of us but at least we're willing to take a step towards protecting the STRIPERS.Oh that's right we already are at 1 fish a day with spawning areas closed to fishing during the spawning season and a slot limit that's reasonable. OOOOOPPPPPSSSS reasonable isn't in our language anymore just bitch an moan and do nothing to fix the problem.
I applaud what my state has done as it is an effort to try to set a trend. I'm ashamed at those who just want to complain and do nothing. Obviously many of the complainers were'nt fishing for stripers in the 70's and 80's. Ron

Obviously many of the complainers were'nt fishing for stripers in the 70's and 80's. Ron
:claps::claps:

I came of age in a fishing family, fishing in the late 80's and vividly remember how rare decent bass fishing was back then. Bluefish out the wazoo. bass were celebrated and gossiped about....

Talking to the older crowd, including my former surf partner. the fishery now sounds eerily like the early 1980's.


Small step, yes, but a step.

and yes, 1@36".
that was someone's signature for a while, if I recall :smash:

God I wish you weren't so damn right about that RIRockhound.When will the greedy smarten up. This attitude of it's alright if someone else has to take a cut back or make a sacrafise is ok as long as it's not me then it's no way not me only the other guy has to stop. It's what brought on the morratorium in the ist place. Too many selfish and greedy anglers. Ron

I don't think anybody, and I mean anybody, here is saying they aren't willing to make sacrifices....they just want to make the RIGHT Sacrifices. Lay out Some real, well thought out, long range plans which would have a measurable effect and you would have pretty much everybody here willing to make sacrifices.

I agree with TDF's line there. I don't think anyone who posted here thinks the bass stocks are 100% A-OK.

I see this as something I could live with, and probably does help with release mortality.

As far as too much regulation DZ; you are always touting Florida's ability to put fish first... non-stainless steel circle hooks and de-hookers are required for gulf fisherman using bait....

http://sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/sf/pdfs/Discard%20Mortality%20FAQ.pdf

i'd say its a step in the right direction. the circle hook / eel issue is the only real problem i have with it, but I could live with it.

one thing to consider is that striper fishing in maine is a big tourist thing, from what i have observed. i'm sure there are plenty of serious striper fisherman in maine too, and i'm not trying to diminish that at all. but head down to any of the tourist beaches (OOB, York, Ogunquit, Saco, etc.) any afternoon and you'll see a ton of people fishing the beach that really have no clue, although most probably mean well, and "releasing" plenty of floaters after ripping the hooks out of their gullets and posing for pictures for 10 minutes with an 18" fish. taking treble hooks and j hooks away as a bait fishing option for these occasional fisherman can only help IMO.

Here I go again......should bite my tongue.

So everyone wants to take a small step to help the striper population?

DONT JOIN THE STRIPER CUP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it kills thousands of BREEDING striped bass. If that tournament and every other kill tournament was cancelled, It will a have a much larger impact on the population than Maine's new law. Much larger. How many big fish go to Maine? Most of the cows are from jersey to MA. Thats where the rec and comm slaughter takes place on the BREEDING fish.

Why do you need government to come in a tell you what hooks to use? Because most of you dont have the balls to take action on your own. I see so many of the names above saying "Its a step in the right direction" yet I GUARANTEE you'll be "I'm in" for the Cup. Hypocrites.
Practice what you preach.
You're all the little whiners that were sitting in the pubs in Boston beyotching about the British while real men grabbed their weapons and went up to Breeds Hill.
The choice is yours, be a man

Here I go again......should bite my tongue.



I think the Earth would shift off its axis if that should ever happen :hihi:

But you are right........

Here I go again......should bite my tongue.

So everyone wants to take a small step to help the striper population?

DONT JOIN THE STRIPER CUP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it kills thousands of BREEDING striped bass. If that tournament and every other kill tournament was cancelled, It will a have a much larger impact on the population than Maine's new law. Much larger. How many big fish go to Maine? Most of the cows are from jersey to MA. Thats where the rec and comm slaughter takes place on the BREEDING fish.

Why do you need government to come in a tell you what hooks to use? Because most of you dont have the balls to take action on your own. I see so many of the names above saying "Its a step in the right direction" yet I GUARANTEE you'll be "I'm in" for the Cup. Hypocrites.
Practice what you preach.
You're all the little whiners that were sitting in the pubs in Boston beyotching about the British while real men grabbed their weapons and went up to Breeds Hill.
The choice is yours, be a man

I agree, and am not and have not partaken in the 'Cup'
But....

did you just compare this to the American revolution :smash:

I

did you just compare this to the American revolution :smash:

I used that as an example of people whining and expecting the govt to solve the problem when we are empowered to solve it ourselves. I sit every day and look out the window and see the Bunnker Hill monument and realize what the actions of a few can accomplish. If the logic is "every little bit counts" then dont participate in kill tournaments. Every dollar you dont spend will impact the tournament and lead to its end. It matters. It saves fish.

Why do you need government to come in a tell you what hooks to use? Because most of you dont have the balls to take action on your own. I see so many of the names above saying "Its a step in the right direction" yet I GUARANTEE you'll be "I'm in" for the Cup. Hypocrites.
Practice what you preach.
You're all the little whiners that were sitting in the pubs in Boston beyotching about the British while real men grabbed their weapons and went up to Breeds Hill.
The choice is yours, be a man
http://i.imgur.com/77TKo.gif

Here I go again......should bite my tongue.

So everyone wants to take a small step to help the striper population?

DONT JOIN THE STRIPER CUP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it kills thousands of BREEDING striped bass. If that tournament and every other kill tournament was cancelled, It will a have a much larger impact on the population than Maine's new law. Much larger. How many big fish go to Maine? Most of the cows are from jersey to MA. Thats where the rec and comm slaughter takes place on the BREEDING fish.

Why do you need government to come in a tell you what hooks to use? Because most of you dont have the balls to take action on your own. I see so many of the names above saying "Its a step in the right direction" yet I GUARANTEE you'll be "I'm in" for the Cup. Hypocrites.
Practice what you preach.
You're all the little whiners that were sitting in the pubs in Boston beyotching about the British while real men grabbed their weapons and went up to Breeds Hill.
The choice is yours, be a man

Ok, I'll play devil's advocate (at least for myself) on this one. Keep in mind that I'm a hypocrite, though.

1) I keep stripers every year. I like to eat them and I usually keep anywhere from 1 to 4 fish per season. I plan on keeping 2, but if I have one that's going to die, I will keep it if it's legal size. I also release 95+% of the fish I catch each year. Last season, I had a fish that I was planning on keeping for the table. I put it aside and kept fishing and released a few more legal fish. When I went to pick up the fish I kept, there was a fisher cat eating it. I was upset because I felt that I killed a fish for nothing.

2) I have fished the Striper Cup the last 3 years. I do it because I like the camaraderie of being on a team in a competition. It also gives me more motivation to go out and fish on nights that it would be easy to make an excuse and stay home. I also respect those who choose not to fish it. In 3 years, I haven't weighed in a fish. Last year I had some nice fish that may have put me in contention for a weekly prize, but they wouldn't have made the top 10 in the end. For me, I would only keep a fish if I was confident that it was going to help the team. And if it made the top 10 for the team, it would more than likely be a PB for me. I don't believe in killing and weighing a 20 lb fish just so I can have my name on the leader board in May.

3) If these measures in Maine save a few fish, it's at least going in the right direction IMO. If you think it's too much government intervention, that's fine. But if you also think things need to change, you should be glad the problem is at least being addressed. Even if it's to a small extent.

Finally, when you were fishing bunker a lot, were you snagging and dropping or were you snagging, bringing the bunker to the boat and switching out to a circle hook? If you weren't switching to a circle, you were increasing the chance of gut-hooking a bass and killing it. To me, that's just as bad as killing a fish for a tournament.

I feel like I can still participate in a tournament, keep a couple of fish for the table and still be conservation minded. Anyone who fishes with any type of hook runs the risk of killing fish. If being a conservtionist means that you won't kill any fish at all, you should stop fishing entirely.

By the way, how do you feel about spearfishing? There's a pretty high mortality rate with that.

I'm ashamed at those who just want to complain and do nothing. Obviously many of the complainers were'nt fishing for stripers in the 70's and 80's. Ron

Ron,
Well, I think that this may possibly be the very first time I've ever been accused of not caring or getting involved in striper conservation.

DZ

By the way, Jimmy. Would it be considered irony or hypocrisy to be seen wearing a Striper Cup hat for someone who is so against the tournament? Just asking because I seem to remember seeing you with one on last year.:devil2:

Ok, I'll play devil's advocate (at least for myself) on this one. Keep in mind that I'm a hypocrite, though.

1) I keep stripers every year. I like to eat them and I usually keep anywhere from 1 to 4 fish per season. I plan on keeping 2, but if I have one that's going to die, I will keep it if it's legal size. I also release 95+% of the fish I catch each year. Last season, I had a fish that I was planning on keeping for the table. I put it aside and kept fishing and released a few more legal fish. When I went to pick up the fish I kept, there was a fisher cat eating it. I was upset because I felt that I killed a fish for nothing.

so?

2) I have fished the Striper Cup the last 3 years. I do it because I like the camaraderie of being on a team in a competition. It also gives me more motivation to go out and fish on nights that it would be easy to make an excuse and stay home. I also respect those who choose not to fish it. In 3 years, I haven't weighed in a fish. Last year I had some nice fish that may have put me in contention for a weekly prize, but they wouldn't have made the top 10 in the end. For me, I would only keep a fish if I was confident that it was going to help the team. And if it made the top 10 for the team, it would more than likely be a PB for me. I don't believe in killing and weighing a 20 lb fish just so I can have my name on the leader board in May.

so you participate in a tournament that kills thousands of breeder bass. Your $ goes to support that. you feel its worth it. Wouldnt it be a bigger step in the right direction to NOT participate? Wouldnt it help the population MORE if there were no kill tournaments?
3) If these measures in Maine save a few fish, it's at least going in the right direction IMO. If you think it's too much government intervention, that's fine. But if you also think things need to change, you should be glad the problem is at least being addressed. Even if it's to a small extent.

Good, thats fine. But its someone else, what about you? Y

Finally, when you were fishing bunker a lot, were you snagging and dropping or were you snagging, bringing the bunker to the boat and switching out to a circle hook? If you weren't switching to a circle, you were increasing the chance of gut-hooking a bass and killing it. To me, that's just as bad as killing a fish for a tournament.

thats dumb, there is no more chance of gut hooking on bunker than an eel. So are you saying fishing in general is bad? I always snagged and re-hooked. I've used circles and I've used J hooks. I've noticed no difference. I've released all my fish and have gut hooked fish before but it was on eels. I kept them.
I'm not PETA. I dont care if fish get hurt or die. Im a fisherman. Its all of you that are applauding this MINOR step as a step in the right direction however, you fish a kill tournament. Again, why not make your own?

I feel like I can still participate in a tournament, keep a couple of fish for the table and still be conservation minded. Anyone who fishes with any type of hook runs the risk of killing fish. If being a conservtionist means that you won't kill any fish at all, you should stop fishing entirely.

agree. but you dont think its silly you support mandatory circle hooks but participate in a kill tournament. The sole purpose to kill the biggest fish. Thats not odd to you?

By the way, how do you feel about spearfishing? There's a pretty high mortality rate with that.
I could care less.

By the way, Jimmy. Would it be considered irony or hypocrisy to be seen wearing a Striper Cup hat for someone who is so against the tournament? Just asking because I seem to remember seeing you with one on last year.:devil2:

I fished the cup 4 years ago, but by observing the striper population decline, I realized its not what I want to be part of. I have a dozen hats I wear, thats one of them.
maybe people see me in the hat and wish they could be as slick as I am and join the cup but I doubt it.

I would not mind going back to 1@ 36" too, but I think that the reason for the circle hook is so that when and if you are throwing back a short fish you are not throwing back a fish that has been gut hooked and is going to die. Two different issues really. Believe me, I do not think as many people kill fish during catch and release fishing as some studies try to make us believe, but the fact of the matter is that it does happen and the use of circle hooks will definitely reduce that number. I do not understand why so many of you are against the idea of saving some fish from unnecessarily dying.

I fished the cup 4 years ago, but by observing the striper population decline, I realized its not what I want to be part of. I have a dozen hats I wear, thats one of them.
maybe people see me in the hat and wish they could be as slick as I am and join the cup but I doubt it.

My above post responding to your intial post was just saying that I think there's a way to still be conservation minded while participating in a tournament. They do have a catch and release category, as well.

I applaud you for switching out hooks when fishing bunker because a lot of guys fish them with trebles. My comment had nothing to do with eels v. bunker. Not sure why you made that leap? What would be dumb would be saying you don't want to kill fish, but then going and fishing bait on treble hooks.

Making circle hooks madatory may be consdiered "silly" by some, but it's a step. You know what it's like trying to get the government to do anything. I've sent letters and made phone calls on behalf of Striper conservation. Any progress is good in my mind. If the government said we could no longer keep bass, I'd be fine with it. I'd still fish.

As for you wearing the hat, to me it looks like you're supporting the Striper Cup. You're advertising for a tournament that you despise. :confused: If you have a dozen hats, you should wear another one. It's like you driving around with an Obama/Biden bumper sticker on your car.

All this jaw boning about what is best for the fish and how best to protect it (while still allowing "the fishermen" to continue to do what they have been doing ) is not going to do much of anything.

IMO this is why gamefish is the way to go. It cuts thru all the crap and regulation nonsense and takes a ton of pressure off the fish. Further, simple regulations on recs ( 1@whaterever, circle hooks, etc) can control the population as needed. (whatever they may be) Again, I think we are in a serious death spiral which has been and is still being largely ignored by the "experts" and I doubt the fish will recover now without draconian measures. IMO a collapse will be good because it will demonstrate just how inept and how cavalier the fishery managers are and it could result in a top down vetting of these buffoons. These guys can't wipe their ass without getting public comments. I want to see some leadership. Stand up and simply do what is right (FOR THE FISH) and let the chips fall where they may.

I have had enough!

http://www.downside.com/bldgjump.gif

The longest journey begins with a single step.

No commerical fishing, 1 fish per day, slot limit, circle hooks, reduction of treble hooks...Maine is taking its steps and if a moratorium or other such drastic measure comes in effect us Maine folk won't have any trouble falling in line. Caught a lot of "out of state" limits and released the majority of any legal fish I caught. Can't do much more here in Maine.

Well here's food for thought. Yup what Maine is doing is only a small thing especially with the smaller numbers of stripers we've seen these last few yrs. But if every angler released or didn't kill one more fish a season due to using a less destructive method of fishing how many more spawning stripers would there be in a couple of yrs?Yup some of you guys are right it's not worth taking a small step in the right direction isn't it-even if a law or new rule had to be made to coax us in the right direction. Ron

Well, maybe since almost 80% of the mortality is coming from recreational fishermen Maybe they should make stripers a commercial fish only? :) (running for cover)

Well, maybe since almost 80% of the mortality is coming from recreational fishermen Maybe they should make stripers a commercial fish only? :) (running for cover)

It's closer to 90% when you look at the fact that the overwhelming majority of the Massachusetts "commercial" fishery is made up of recreational anglers looking to pick up a few extra bucks to defray their expenses.

If they ever limited the fishery to those who derive at least 50% of their income from the sale of fish, you'd have a 1.1 million pound quota with no closed season.

Treble for scup,j hook for bunker.

The sad part of the truth that always seems to be forgotten by comms is that it takes 100,000 sportfishermen to land what 1000 commercials do. MMMMMMI don't see an awful lot of people landing fish rod n reel especially from shore and I kinda spend a load of time out there fishing from Maine to New York.My overall catch numbers are so far down from 10 yrs ago that it's insane.we do all share in the affect but the focused damage that a few comms do with high grading is way more than any rec can ever acheive.Cull n release is still dead fish,by-catch is still dead fish and rec kill due to lack of knowing the proper way to release is still dead fish.Through all this I never see or hear of a comm pushing for lower catch just want more n more.I kept 5 fish last yr.Thats not 1 percent of what I landed.Every commercial rod n reeler I know still wants more. MMMMMMM. Think about that Mike n Mike. Like I said on another post if each of us killed 10 percent less there would be one heck of a lot of new breeders in a couple yrs.

Maine is taking its steps and if a moratorium or other such drastic measure comes in effect us Maine folk won't have any trouble falling in line.
That's the difference between you and me... I'm not one to unquestionably "fall in line" with what the government tells me is the correct action.

That's the difference between you and me... I'm not one to unquestionably "fall in line" with what the government tells me is the correct action.

You can make ad hominem attacks all you want, it will only reflect poorly on you.

Ron--I'm not taking a position for or against commercial fishing in the abstract. What I'm saying is that if a commercial fishery is to exist, it should be limited to legitimate commercial fishermen.

And, with all due respect---if you don't see the waste in the rec fishery, you're not looking in the right places. You don't see the same 30 guys taking 2 40" plus fish off the Canal every plugging tide all year. There is absoultely no need for guys to take two fish in the 25-30 pound range every day for a whole set of tides. Freindships have been strained by a few of us calling people we know out on that senselessness. You don't see the guys day after day with two breeders bungee corded to their bike baskets, just because the law says they can take 2 fish. You don't see the absolute slaughter in NJ every May when the adult pogies are running tight to the beach---the sharpies there tell me than any guy with a snag hook can look like a pro. You don't see the absolute slaughter on the really big "citation" fish when they're stacked up every winter off the Virginia coast, when every charter guy from every port within range is running a 6-pack out there, and guys from the northeast are trailering their rigs down there. A lot fo that is taking place in the EEZ, and there isn't much that can be done to stop it, since they have bird dogs on the radio putting out the word when the USCG heads out there.That fishery didn't exist 15 years ago. I know that you do see people coming to the Derby weigh-in with fish that don't have a prayer of winning a daily, just so they have a shot at a Mystery prize. And winning a daily for what---a hat pin and a $20 check? People love to knock the OTW torunament as bad, but the same people have no problem with the MV Derby. A dead bass is a dead bass no matter where it's killed. I'm sure that you still make an effort to win the Grand Slam every Derby.

We are all to blame, and we need to clean our own houses before we point fingers at the other guys.

It's closer to 90% when you look at the fact that the overwhelming majority of the Massachusetts "commercial" fishery is made up of recreational anglers looking to pick up a few extra bucks to defray their expenses.

If they ever limited the fishery to those who derive at least 50% of their income from the sale of fish, you'd have a 1.1 million pound quota with no closed season.

It would be a sad day if you could not take your kid fishing for stripers because we were reserving them for work rather than pleasure.

He means the commercial fishery.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Ron--I'm not taking a position for or against commercial fishing in the abstract. What I'm saying is that if a commercial fishery is to exist, it should be limited to legitimate commercial fishermen.

And, with all due respect---if you don't see the waste in the rec fishery, you're not looking in the right places. You don't see the same 30 guys taking 2 40" plus fish off the Canal every plugging tide all year. There is absoultely no need for guys to take two fish in the 25-30 pound range every day for a whole set of tides. Freindships have been strained by a few of us calling people we know out on that senselessness. You don't see the guys day after day with two breeders bungee corded to their bike baskets, just because the law says they can take 2 fish. You don't see the absolute slaughter in NJ every May when the adult pogies are running tight to the beach---the sharpies there tell me than any guy with a snag hook can look like a pro. You don't see the absolute slaughter on the really big "citation" fish when they're stacked up every winter off the Virginia coast, when every charter guy from every port within range is running a 6-pack out there, and guys from the northeast are trailering their rigs down there. A lot fo that is taking place in the EEZ, and there isn't much that can be done to stop it, since they have bird dogs on the radio putting out the word when the USCG heads out there.That fishery didn't exist 15 years ago. I know that you do see people coming to the Derby weigh-in with fish that don't have a prayer of winning a daily, just so they have a shot at a Mystery prize. And winning a daily for what---a hat pin and a $20 check? People love to knock the OTW torunament as bad, but the same people have no problem with the MV Derby. A dead bass is a dead bass no matter where it's killed. I'm sure that you still make an effort to win the Grand Slam every Derby.

We are all to blame, and we need to clean our own houses before we point fingers at the other guys.


Awesome post!!!
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I see a lot of griping about what's being done, but no suggestions for what would be better.

It's like every time they try to cut a government program, the people getting the money say "This is just a tiny part of the budget, and cutting this won't close the deficit." Yeah, true, but you have to start somewhere. Circle hooks are a great idea. If it saves one percent of hooked fish, that's great. We can improve from there. B*tching and moaning never solved a problem.

He means the commercial fishery.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Thanks for the clarification...

So where do w go from here. Who wants to take the next step---Ron Striper Maine-iac------I'm visiting Steve for those that wonder

It's closer to 90% when you look at the fact that the overwhelming majority of the Massachusetts "commercial" fishery is made up of recreational anglers looking to pick up a few extra bucks to defray their expenses.

If they ever limited the fishery to those who derive at least 50% of their income from the sale of fish, you'd have a 1.1 million pound quota with no closed season.

Geeez,

I have always hated that arguement about reserving the comm bass to just true comm fisherman, it just doesn't hold water in my mind. I know there are several people who think this way. It is the one comm fishery reserved for the rod and reel style fishing.

Ask yourself this.....
- I hope none of you are growing tomotoes in your back yard and selling them in a basket on the sidewallk putting all the real farmers out of business.
- Shame on you guys who paint your own house....your putting all the comm painters out of work.
- Only true snowplow drivers should be snowplowing if you make 50% of your income from plowing.
- I guess I am a bad man......I repiped my hot water heater myself instead of calling a licensed plummer. Wonder how many guys I put out of work.
- Come to think of it, I going to sand and paint the bottom of my boat again. I know I really should be calling the comm "pros" at the marina down the street to do it. I feel guilty, maybe I'll make it up to them and take them to lunch.

I could go on all day with this.......but I'll stop here......:smash:

x100 Jon. Guess I'm guilty too... I'm one of those "not a real commercial" fisherman. 50+ years pin hooking paid my way through school, paid the dpmt. on my house; paid (part of) my sons exorbitant tuition, etc, etc.
Little did I know that I should have been pumping gas p.t. all these years to make it easier for those who can't catch. Probably would have been a lot easier for me too...no getting up @ 0 dark 30 to pull the gills nets, could have been internet fishing on the couch instead of beating myself on those rough days, could have spent my 5 weeks vacation traveling with the wife instead of.....................never mind.

Most of these don't even apply...
Ask yourself this.....
- I hope none of you are growing tomotoes in your back yard and selling them in a basket on the sidewallk putting all the real farmers out of business.
Does anyone actually do this? And is there a limited number of tomatoes that can be pulled from the ground and sold at market?
- Shame on you guys who paint your own house....your putting all the comm painters out of work.
No different than catching stripers for the table with my recreational permit. You're confusing personal use and commercial use here.
- Only true snowplow drivers should be snowplowing if you make 50% of your income from plowing.
Can anyone in this region earning a median yearly income actually get 50% of that yearly income from plowing?
- I guess I am a bad man......I repiped my hot water heater myself instead of calling a licensed plummer. Wonder how many guys I put out of work.
Again, just like putting fish on your own table with a rec permit. Personal use.
- Come to think of it, I going to sand and paint the bottom of my boat again. I know I really should be calling the comm "pros" at the marina down the street to do it. I feel guilty, maybe I'll make it up to them and take them to lunch.
Most of these blur the distinction of doing work for yourself to save money (just like recs keeping fish for their own table) and creating a side business that exploits a limited resource, potentially at the expense of someone else's career.

I could go on all day with this.......but I'll stop here......:smash:

:claps::claps:

I came of age in a fishing family, fishing in the late 80's and vividly remember how rare decent bass fishing was back then. Bluefish out the wazoo. bass were celebrated and gossiped about....

Talking to the older crowd, including my former surf partner. the fishery now sounds eerily like the early 1980's.


Small step, yes, but a step.

and yes, 1@36".
that was someone's signature for a while, if I recall :smash:

How long do we go on saying it? The gods who make the laws are starting to listen but it may be too late. Those of us who lived through "No Bass" in the mid-80 to the early 90s see it happening again.

When the hell will they listen and make it 1 fish 36"? Never probably.:wall:

Most of these don't even apply...

Johnny, don't want to totally hyjack this thread for it did get off topic a way back but I guess we just have to agree to disagree. They very much apply. You say "personal use" for me sure. But someone who is comm at anything is doing this job for thier "personal" use too. Making money for thier "personal" bank account.

When you say on some of my items does anyone actually do this or can it be done. You answered my question. To flip it around how many true comm fish guys pounds nails in the winter, plow snow etc.

Whatever your profession, thier are always guys doing side jobs to get ahead. Have known a few fireman that build houses on the side. Should they leave this for the true building contractor.

Give me a good reason to reserve any one job for just any one group of you have the skill, license and/or qualification.

Good ole free enterprise and american capitalism at work!

BOT....I don't like circle hooks either. :-)

Well what's better circle hooks or no stripers. MMMMMMM From the sound of some as long as they don't have to give up anything it's ok for everyone else to give up something. Small steps are better than none at all but some still want it all.

I would rather watch the Commercial Massachusetts Striper Industry harvest its next "righteous quota" of 1.1 million pounds in 2011 under the new Maine hook law. Maybe there will be a lesser mortality in their chunk/live bait fleet while they are actively culling their catch for the daily weigh scales. Oops, I forgot...they don't cull because its against the law.

"while they are actively culling their catch for the daily weigh scales. Oops, I forgot...they don't cull because its against the law"

Right.... we all start culling our catch right after we get that first 30. Classic.

What about the Sunday "only 5" day? Classic.

Well since it is illegal to cull, if you see/know someone who is risking their permit, boat, etc. to upgrade by a few pounds I suggest you drop a dime.....or would you rather just BS on the web. I refrained at first from saying "Classic No Nothing Internet Fisherman" ...this time I won't.

Sok: You're right; I'd rather not BS on the web; guess I'm just hangin' a little light until our season starts. I have made those phone calls, twice last year for issues far more significant than a culling. The official interrogation and non response I rec'd tells me that the industry is safe; however, IMO the resouce isn't. First time I've been accused of being a "No Nothing...". I think you really meant "Know Nothing".

Bonds for now SK.

Correct...I did mean "Know Nothing".....but that's neither here nor their/they're/there....just thought you were being a little "sour" in your generalization of commercial fishermen...sorry for the insult.:buds: Hear's/here's hoping for a good season for the both of us....dry waders for you and a good price for me!:fishin: