What would you do ?

Photos? Teams?

You NEED to use the honor system, how would you do it ?

I'd be in

Digital pics with the date and time feature set to show up on the pix.

Fish is measured girth and length and then caluted using that formula.

Usually done in pairs, so you fish with someone you don't know.

Makes it tough cause not everyone fishes the same, wetsuit, waders or boat/kayak guys.
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minimum teams of two
so one guy can snap the photo of the other guy
with both guys having a camera
a second one to default to in case one has issues

and perhaps a tape measure stretched across
the held fish ...longest fish wins

try to use to kiss principle. keep prizes to a minimal value to discourage cheats. photo with a tape and time/date info. teams and solo (for some fishing isn't a team sport). hold it around a good moon phase. shore, wetsuit, kayak, boat divisions. good thinking johnny! :love:

Has to be a minimum of 2 man teams, needs 2 photos, 1 with tape across the fish and one with the angler holding the fish. Slips turned in require the witnesses signature. over-all length determines winner....in case of tie whoever caught theirs 1st wins....so make sure you have a date/time stamp in photos

NO Cash Prize.......

And a smallest fish category ;)

Everything has to be C&R. Promise of crushed barbs and sub 30 second turn around?

And a smallest fish category ;)

Everything has to be C&R. Promise of crushed barbs and sub 30 second turn around?

So you need a HD video of the entire C&R process??? 30 sec for pics (2) and tape showing? Including the fish going back into the water....

I'm in for smallest.:rotf2:

I have done a few C&R tourneys where a photo showing the length and some form of proof that the fish was caught during the tournament was required. Usually a laminated tournament card is given our at the start if the tournament and needs to be included in the pictures to verify it was caught during the tournament. You could also email something out at the start of the tournament and those entered would need to print it and either laminate it or keep in in a plastic bag or something.
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no need for cloak and dagger- honor system. if we can't believe in this why bother?

I would set it up similar to how Zeno did his C & R tourny. A picture is needed with the fish and a particular gesture etc. that shows the picture is recent. In Zeno's it was a thumbs up in the pic. It could be something simple like the "OK" sign with the fish etc. Also, it wouldn't have to be taken by another individual it could be a picture of the fish and your opposite hand in the photo. Nothing crazy, just something to avoid any accusations of cheating, liars etc.

I have also seen it done in a point system.

Every inch is a point up to X length then every inch is two points over X length.

For example:

39" fish would equal 39 points

But a 44" would be 48 points
40" at 1 point an inch
4" at 2 points an inch

It is tough to get random teams cause I'm not big on sharing my spots with strangers and not everyone lives close to each other.

I like the tourney card required in the pix.

Simple prizes, plugs, terminal tackle, a few gag gifts, etc
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And a smallest fish category ;)

Everything has to be C&R. Promise of crushed barbs and sub 30 second turn around?


I will have that category wrapped up,,,

Low stakes, no cash.
Donated prizes.
All registered members can play.
Separate categories for boat caught, shore bait, and shore artificial.
Individual, no teams
Fork curved body length, witnessed OR photo'ed, released fish only (honor system)

try to use to kiss principle. keep prizes to a minimal value to discourage cheats.

Better yet, remove the "prizes" all together. A simple certificate to give you little more than bragging rights. If people want prizes, hold a raffle at an awards gathering afterwards. 2 man teams would be nice, but many people fish alone. Maybe add a division for individuals and one for "teams". Make a simple 2 photo entry requirement, one holding the fish flashing the S-B gang sign and one of the measurment on the fish. Submissions to be sent to an email address and not posted during the tournament to lessen the liklihood of someone beating out the current leader by a nut hair in the final minutes.

And a smallest fish category



Thank you for keeping me in mind :)

Picture with tape measure. Picture of the release. Since we'd have the length amd weight data how about possibly tagging a few? I'm out of the loop on how to obtain tagging kits from the litoral society.
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A picture with some form of entry card or sign is good. I dont carry a boga, but the measurement is definately possible. I fish alone alot too, would have to bribe someone to be a team..

I think laying the fish flat on a tape would work for a solo angler. HAving some sort if laminated card given out just prior to the event would work to know that the picture is current. I fish alone 90% of the time so having a system where it could be done solo would be a big help. By the way "IM IN"

I think laying the fish flat on a tape would work for a solo angler. HAving some sort if laminated card given out just prior to the event would work to know that the picture is current. I fish alone 90% of the time so having a system where it could be done solo would be a big help. By the way "IM IN"

X's 2.
I think most people who would fish this type of C&R tourney wouldn't care too much about prizes. Bragging rights and a fun get together before and after would would be enough to get me to sign up. I think the team thing is fine, but also think people should be able to fish alone if they want to.

Next question. Is it shore only, or would there be categories for boat and kayak caught fish?

Agreed to an extent. Pictures of fish would need to be held in tight to body. Or along a rod so if there were any questions you would have something to scale it to.depending on the size of the tourney and the closeness of the people fishing. C@R Tourneys are the way to do it. no need for cloak and dagger- honor system. if we can't believe in this why bother?
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Would be a tourney for a good cause, that I would like to enlist other sites and clubs for. Not just S-B.com and not for S-B.com

KISS is important.

Just remember....the more Rules/Categories you have the less simple it becomes

And for the record it should not be used with the wifes "tape measure"...


this |---------------------------------------------------| is not 9 inches!

Would be a tourney for a good cause, that I would like to enlist other sites and clubs for. Not just S-B.com and not for S-B.com

KISS is important.

methinks initial tourney should be sb only- gives us a chance to work out the kinks.

Pretty much every digital camera has video capability. A video of the fish being held against a tape and then released should not be a problem.

Kinda funny....but now you know why people would rather just drag a fish to a local B&T and throw it on the scale.

Video taping it, flashing Gang signs.......

again..honor system. if john, george, larry, vic, mike, etc. says they released a fish- i believe them.

Kinda funny....but now you know why people would rather just drag a fish to a local B&T and throw it on the scale.

Video taping it, flashing Gang signs.......

Exactly why I usually don't bother....

I'd absolutely be in. How about trophys for 1st 2nd and 3rd. $5.00 to enter just to defer the cost of the trophys or plaques.

We did this at Thundermist Striper Club. We never has a cash award. There were enough legenday stripermen in that club that you could fill a book with the names. I was honored to have taken 2nd form the surf in 96. #^&#^&#^&#^&y Conoyer also took second in the boat division that year

It ran all season and we had a dinner with spouses at the end of the season. Never any cash or monetary prizes just a trophy or plaque. We also had the point system for the angler of the year. 1 point of each pound.
The late and great Lanny Grazini had it that year with 1800+ points. That's $*&#% load of bass!

I would like to think people would make the effort to honor the tournament rules particularly where it is a charity event. Winning is one thing but for the most part guys that are simply involved in a c&r tournament to benefit charity I would like to think would honor system and go about it the right way.
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You can buy a Manley spring scale that's accurate to w/in one pound for about the price of a Sebille or Beachmaster. They're so accurate that the IGFA will pre-certify one for record submission.

Two guys from different teams get assigned as partners. They can split the cost of the scale. If someone already has one, they can be checked for accuracy with a known weight at the pre-tourney gathering.

Pictures and taping can be fudged. Scales don't lie. The non-catching partner attests to the size of the other guy's fish.

I carried one with me all last October for the local Gibbs torunament. They fit easily inside a plug bag, and they don't care about getting wet, unlike many electronic digital scales.

Hmmm - how about no fish over 26" ;)
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You can buy a Manley spring scale that's accurate to w/in one pound....

Scales don't lie. They fit easily inside a plug bag, and they don't care about getting wet, unlike many electronic digital scales.


Exactly, Mike.
Since all my experience with the Thundermist C&R was back in the 90s, we didn't have digital scales. We had Manleys verified at Nelsons (when Emilo owned it) and all the guys carried one. We all mostly fished the Back Beaches or the Canal back then so Nelsons was convenient for everyone.

You can buy a Manley spring scale that's accurate to w/in one pound for about the price of a Sebille or Beachmaster. They're so accurate that the IGFA will pre-certify one for record submission.

Two guys from different teams get assigned as partners. They can split the cost of the scale. If someone already has one, they can be checked for accuracy with a known weight at the pre-tourney gathering.

Pictures and taping can be fudged. Scales don't lie. The non-catching partner attests to the size of the other guy's fish.

I carried one with me all last October for the local Gibbs torunament. They fit easily inside a plug bag, and they don't care about getting wet, unlike many electronic digital scales.

Only problem with that is for a big fish the simple act of weighing it might well kill it. :wall: Pics with tape measure better, but no way a fish is going back in the water in under 30 seconds if you have to lay out a tape and take a picture. Date/time stamp on the photo OR a premade tourney sign, no need for both, just keeps the fish out of the water longer. Some people will always try and cheat even if its just for bragging rights.

I wouldnt want to have to partner up for a week long tourney, that couldn't work with the right partner for a night or even a weekend tourney but I doubt two people would have identical schedules for an entire week.
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We have an inter-island C&R tournament that in my view has resulted in a lot of fun, great memories, good times and new lasting friendships.
The "island cup" is a MV vs ACK C&R surf fishing event. It alternates islands each year as to its location and lasts a 3 day weekend (F/S/S). Each team angler fishes with someone on the other team. Largest blue/bass in lbs is noted for every angler (bogagrip) as witnessed by the guy in the other team. In the end all the weights are combined for each team. the team with the largest combined total wins the cup. (we have it this year after two painful losses.) The event begins and ends with a gathering at a restaurant or the anglers club. a great time to renew and meet new friends. Each angler for the hosting team houses their guest angler in their home for the weekend. Again, this alternates each year. It is something I look forward to each year. It is a lot of fun, I have met some wonderful people and some have become very good friends. The stories everyone has make it a very memorable.

Simple, no big money involved, great friends, just fishermen one weekend. A real mix of people from all walks of life with the common bond of fishing. Without a doubt one of the highlights of every summer for me. This is my kind of tournament.

Run it like the vineyard rod and gun Fly fishing tourney. biggest fish / most fish honnor system. Why would anybody cheat at a tourney done for a good cause. Make the raffles bigger than the prise. That works best. Make it more fun to be in the tourney than to win it. This sounds fun.

1. Keep it simple
2. Good people are honest and won't cheat. The bad guys are just looking for ways to one up someone and "win" no matter what. You can't make rules that change people.
3. The most valuable prizes should be in the raffle, I think the Habs tourney is a good example.
The recognition for winning should be enough and maybe a "neat plug shaped trophy"
I fish alone and would just as soon take a picture of the fish laying down, sometimes I'm out a ways on a rock and I am not swimming in.

OK - fish photographed go to points so say under 26" 1 point, 26+, 2 points. Points total = how much raffle chances you get for prize ?? So no PRIZE for total fish or biggest, etc but the more C&R is better CHANCES for prize?

Or am I :tm:

one raffle chance just for entering.
a second for taking a picture of a fish.
Then you can buy as many tickets as you want.

I've seen time when I could catch rats till I was sick of it. That gets old but some yahoo will feel compelled if everyone is worth a ticket.

Who the hell cheats for bragging rights, that's just the stupidest thing. You have to be a real dbag to cheat in a fishing tournament anyway especially if it's just for bragging rights. How about a specific tape measure printed up with the credentials right on it. 2 birds. I can make custom tape measures with waterproof vinyl for a buck or so or get them from a novelty place. Then there is no ? whether someone is using a rigged tape or scale. Then you also have useful souvenir when the tourney is over.

And a smallest fish category ;)



Thank you for keeping me in mind :)
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Vic you catch fish?

I like the Hand signals in the picture. As long as its easy to do.

This famous fish was caught by Rob Koch of Northbar Tackle and his hand signal was the signal for Bill Wetzel's catch and release tournament.

My thumb does that but my ring finger for some reason won't stay down.

So if its a hand signal make it easy. I can do the Spock live long and prosper hand sign.

You know the plastic retractable tape measures? I can probably get enough of em through work to cover this. They go to 60", that might be big enough.

If we need a hand signal, im a fan of the shocker.

I could see measuring for a largest fish contest getting difficult. Even under the honor system, one persons 45" is bigger than anothers.

How about most fish over a certain length?
Total # of fish caught over 40".
Maybe a certain # of bonus points for fish over 50"
You would reward the person who catches the most good fish for the tournament, and not the guy that might just get 1 good fish.

The hand signal or tourney card in the picture ideas are solid.

I second the shocker for a hand signal.:uhuh:

Now I have to buy a camera, forgetaboutit.
Groups of at least two measure tape and witness affidavit
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After alot of thinking here is my outline.
1. a printable card that one gets in an email when thay sign up.
2. no partner needed but a photo of fisherperson, fish and card is needed. (hand signal works as well)
3. boat and shore classes
4. everyone who enters is entered into one main raffle bin. as winners are pulled the name is removed.
5. plaque for biggest fish and most fish. (prises are raffle drawn) keeps it fun and honest.

I have been fortunate I have been gifted with 2 wins in the vineyard fly fishing derby. I NEVER win the raffles! They give away some amazing prizes every year. Plus Coops bbq is a blast!

Maybe a fish of the day post and a best photo winner?

emailed printable card is a great idea!

many times I'm perched on a rock and need one hand to hold the fish steady on a small bolder while the other hand snaps the pic. So i think the hand sign isn't best?

doens't matter how many in a team to me. I fish alone 99% of the time

Winner's pic gets posted on front page

no prizes

These pics will burn spots if not edited.
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These pics will burn spots if not edited.
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Here we go! Spot burning!!

1. Most guys fish at night so you will not be able to tell where it is.
2. There are NO secret spots unless you are 10 years old and never fished.
3. Who F cares? If you have got to start chasing fish based on background in some picture then you better take up a different sport.
Just my opinion. Let's not start complicating this thing more than it is already.

Who cares about the rules. Let's start planning the BBQ!

I can bring paper plates and plastic cutlery.

Who cares about the rules. Let's start planning the BBQ!

Make sure people only bring Organic to the BBQ....the Chemical Fertilizer run-off is impacting the health of the stripers too....:hihi:

I have some of the funnest days on the boat when my friends and I have just straight inch tourneys. Size does not matter, no bonses etc. Round everything at the 1/2" up. It is fun. At the end of the day you may have 378" beats 357" etc.

If you don't like that if we could add the weight of the angler to the weight of the fish maybe I'd have a chance.:biglaugh:

an option for people who fish alone would be good. come up with some random cheap and portable object that everyone has (a playing card or water bottle for example) the day before the tournament starts that has to be included in photos of fish laying on a tape.

night time quality photos of someone holding a good fish that is to released can be tough to get, even with a partner. and they can be misleading (size of person, angle, etc. can all make a fish look very different). I think a straight down shot of fish on tape is the easiest to take and most reliable.

I'll bring tofu shaped striper fillets.

I think a full discussion this sat evening over blueberries, I'll be in Newport so it works for me.

I'll bring tofu shaped striper fillets.

How dare you harm tofu??? Heartless bastard!:fury:

I'll bring some Christmas trees to burn.

Excuse me!! Holiday Tree:rotf2:

Keep it up and I'll Spring Sphere your house....

Ya can't have complicated rules, fishermen are stupid drunks, the fishes length grows an inch more with every beer.:wall:

less complicated is better, easier and manageable.

I agree with not weighing heavy bass, then trying to release alive.

good luck

it's already way past the kiss and roundin' 2nd...

my vote is a hand sign or someone said a playing card to be in the pic which is determined at tourney start. Do a weekly thing, state by state cause the get togethers are far from one angler to another. Maybe have a small prize for each monthly winner. W/ the amount of ppl that fish alone a straight down shot over a tape. Shore, kayak and boat categories=bragging rights and 3 prizes a month. If there is a tie, go on the honor system of S-B comments and hope one guy doesnt have more friends than the other. IMHO. I love the idea of a continous C&R tounrey.

"and hope one guy doesnt have more friends "






* or girl

and the kayak might need to be adjusted. maybe the kayak ppl could get a tape measure sticker on thier craft w/in reach or something, not sure how to work that part out

JohnR,
You have any dates in mind yet? Looks like this will have a decent turn out.

and said HUH?

it's a fake

Only problem with that is for a big fish the simple act of weighing it might well kill it. :wall: Pics with tape measure better, but no way a fish is going back in the water in under 30 seconds if you have to lay out a tape and take a picture. Date/time stamp on the photo OR a premade tourney sign, no need for both, just keeps the fish out of the water longer. Some people will always try and cheat even if its just for bragging rights.

You'll kill more fish #^&#^&#^&#^&ing around with tape measures, cameras, and some kind of identifiable object like a playing card to validate the date.

Fish laid on rocks will thrash and lose scales. Sometimes they'll flop while someone's reaching for the tape, camera or identifier and wedge between the rocks, and big fish are a bitch to get out of the rocks. Fish laid on the sand will thrash and lose much of their slime that protects them against parasites and infections. I think that if you learn how to correctly place a scale inside of a fish's jaw, and how to avoid touching the gills doing it, you'll kill far fewer fish than having them out of the water for an extended period while measuring and photographing them. Most people land a big bass that way anyway--no one who's experienced tries to lift a fish over 30 lbs. by lipping it.

If you've ever tried to remove a hook buried in a bass' jawbone, you know that their jaws are not fragile in the least

First Week of May, supporting a great cause (not S-B) but, well, a great cause. I'm puting out fires at work for the moment, someone decided to run their sysvol (nerdalert) out of space by spamming the world.

Whole week, single anglers OK with photo - must promise quick release so be ready to go. Anglers fishing with another CAN honor system it if the other writes it down. Chance to win some prizes even if I need to buy them ;) . Not biggest or most BUT each photo will count for a prize. Honor system will be key as this is supporting an honorable cause.



Keep it up and I'll Spring Sphere your house....


Besides, I thought Spring Sphering as wore in line with Autumn Harvest Granola Costume Day? Can Cheryl Crow TP your house with single squares?
:rotf2: would be funny if not for - well, ACLU would sue me for anything I was about to say.

got on of these in my bag. Less than $20. Hopefully will reduce the strain a bit. Gotta be better than hanging by the jaw.

TFG TF GEAR FISH FRIENDLY HARDWEAR WEIGH SLING | eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/TFG-TF-GEAR-FISH-FRIENDLY-HARDWEAR-WEIGH-SLING-/390300659529?pt=UK_SportingGoods_FishingAcces_RL&hash=item5adfbb6f49)

The materialistic price awards and bragging rights can be replaced by a clap on the back by our honorable Clammer.









Just joking
I'm in
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OK - even simpler:

Single Angler - quick photo with date / times tamp on- size irrelevant
Pair Anglers - other angler can fill out the caught record (a record MUST be kept - form will be downloadable) - size irrelevant.
Eliminate the tape measure altogether.
1 fish = 1 chance. More fish, more chances but everyone will still have a chance.
Each CHANCE is a chance for a prize.
No prize for biggest or heaviest.
Gag prize for smallest.
Gag prize for funniest photo.
Not limited to S-B, you can invite other friends / clubs / sites though tally and raffle will probably be online here.
Payment will be PayPal will be to S-B with a check of everything (less PP fees) to the OFFICIAL 501.C.3 of this well known organization and local favorite and checks can be sent in advance already made out to said 501(c)3 foundation.
Honor system.
Great Cause To Be Announced.


The materialistic price awards and bragging rights can be replaced by a clap on the back by our honorable Clammer.

Best hope a "clap" is all you get :tooth:

Sounds good to me, specially the size irrelevant part. Sign me up.

size matters :rotf2:

Very cool! I know many who will be interested in participating
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Could someone create a digital cup or plaque that the winner gets to display somewhere in their profile for the season? End of season, it's up for grabs again? Could become the SB cup and provide for major bragging rights.

What if we were to have a digital plaque or cup that the winner could display in their profile for the year. After the season, it's up for grabs again. Could become the SB cup and provide for major bragging rights.

John, I'm in.Let me know how I can help.

What if we were to have a digital plaque or cup that the winner could display in their profile for the year. After the season, it's up for grabs again. Could become the SB cup and provide for major bragging rights.

Interesting thought - hmm. Digital Cup for the Smallest Fish :tooth:

John, I'm in.Let me know how I can help.

Will do....

You'll kill more fish #^&#^&#^&#^&ing around with tape measures, cameras, and some kind of identifiable object like a playing card to validate the date.

Fish laid on rocks will thrash and lose scales. Sometimes they'll flop while someone's reaching for the tape, camera or identifier and wedge between the rocks, and big fish are a bitch to get out of the rocks. Fish laid on the sand will thrash and lose much of their slime that protects them against parasites and infections. I think that if you learn how to correctly place a scale inside of a fish's jaw, and how to avoid touching the gills doing it, you'll kill far fewer fish than having them out of the water for an extended period while measuring and photographing them. Most people land a big bass that way anyway--no one who's experienced tries to lift a fish over 30 lbs. by lipping it.

If you've ever tried to remove a hook buried in a bass' jawbone, you know that their jaws are not fragile in the least

Its not a question of hurting their jaws. Hanging a big fish displaces their internal organs, often leading to death, days later.Some studies have put the death rate as high as 25%.A sling like Zimmy posted will cure the problem.Otherwise I agree, anything that delays getting the fish back in the water is not good.

Its not a question of hurting their jaws. Hanging a big fish displaces their internal organs, often leading to death, days later..

This is debatable.

What you are talking about is "isthmus injury". It has been shown to be a problem with snook, but studies in muskies have not shown an increase in mortality with weighing, even in larger fish. There is not much info one way or the other with big bass as far as I am aware. Certainly many fish that are weighed and tagged survive and are caught again.

Our club runs a season long C&R for the largest bass released alive. Simple rules are it must be weighed on a hand scale, witnessed by any person aged 16 or older, and released alive. No special prizes except the winner get the nicest trophy we award and the recognition of releasing a bass the size that most anglers would never consider releasing. Very prestigious award.

DZ

No awards gets my vote. Trophy plaque is good.

So who is the tourney going to benefit? It doesnt really matter, just curious.

This is debatable.

What you are talking about is "isthmus injury". It has been shown to be a problem with snook, but studies in muskies have not shown an increase in mortality with weighing, even in larger fish. There is not much info one way or the other with big bass as far as I am aware. Certainly many fish that are weighed and tagged survive and are caught again.

Never heard it referred to as that before. But it has been demonstrated in may other species besides snook. Easy enough to avoid if you use a sling instead of holding the fish by the jaw. But you are correct in that I know of no studies that looked specifically at striped bass.

These explain it

Angler Handling Techniques Will Increase Survival for All Released Game Fish (http://www.snookfoundation.org/news/release/85-angler-handling-techniques-will-increase-survival-for-all-released-game-fish.html)

Muskie Fishing | An evaluation of the injury and short-term survival of bonefish (Albula spp.) as influenced by a mechanical lip-gripping device used by recreational anglers (http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/articles/12.04.2009/2549/An.evaluation.of.the.injury.and.short-term.survival.of.bonefish.(Albula.spp.).as.influen ced.by.a.mechanical.lip-gripping.device.used.by.recreational.anglers/index.htm)

Here is the stuff about Muskies.....interesting because they intentionally were rough with radio tagged fish and found almost no mortality. Chippewa Flowage Muskie Study - Y1 (http://www.musky.com/Features/cfmsy1.htm)

To save you wading through it,

"Although no previous study, to our knowledge, has ever examined the validity of these widely-held beliefs, we too, shared concern for the survival of released Muskies, especially after reviewing tables 3 and 4 of the CFMTP. For this reason, we made the decision to subject the study Muskies to a variety of popular and unpopular holds, netting practices, and release practices, etc. Considering that the catch and release participants of the study have caught and released in excess of 1,500 Muskies; and, for the most part, practice the "proper" release methods, it was determined that it was necessary to expose the Muskies of the study to the same type of conditions, practices and treatment that they would receive while in the control of inexperienced musky fishermen. Only then could we make confident determinations as to the affects of such treatment, practices and conditions on musky survivability. The first year results are in. in terms of the types of holds: horizontal vs. vertical vs. diagonal-- there was no affect on mortality. The same was true of netting and release practices. We had four study Muskies that bled from slightly to profusely from the gills and all survived more on that later. in addition, two others were hooked during battles in one eye. They also survived. At the time of their releases we "experts" would have bet that at least four of these Muskies would have died. But none of these Muskies died! The good news is that Muskies are much hardier than previously thought. in fact, 95.6% of the Muskies caught, radio-tagged and released for the study survived the open-water fishing season! Only two out of the forty-five Muskies of the study expired. Now, does this mean that we should abandon the cautious release methods that most have come to accept over the past few years? Absolutely not. But, these findings illustrate that we must be careful to label something as proper" or accept something as "fact" without appropriate supporting research data."

Thanks! I guess that shows how much variability there is between species. There were also some studies done in Australia on one of their more popular fish, that showed even greater mortality than the snook study. I guess we won't know the real answer vis-a-vis stripers until someone does a similar study on stripers. Meanwhile, I still try to discourage the use of Bogas and similar devices for weighing, unless they use a sling.