All this hype got me drooling.
I borrowed a Century Stealth blank from Diggin Jiggin.
It was bought a MSBA and is called a Stealth S1
Taped on guides at the exact layout of a GSB1201L I have been using.
Titanium Lowriders into small runners.......about as good a layout as I can build.
Used the same reel for test casting, a Stella 5000sw 40# Samauri braid.
Threw 1.5oz pencil and needle, 2.75 oz pencil, 3.5 oz darter and big donny.
Wind at my back.

Both are light. The GSB blank (per Lami catalog?) is 6 1/2 oz, the Century weighed 7.45 oz. Built the Lami weighs 11.5 oz. The Century weighed 9.75 oz (but with no grip or epoxy). I think they would weigh the same finished. The Century rod has a very thick butt section, so more of its weight is lower down. It feels a slight touch tip lighter than the lami. Not sure I could tell with my eyes closed.

Under high load (about 12lbs of drag) the Century has a stiffer lower half and softer upper 1/2. I don't have a picture to show this, but it is about how an Arra would bend relative to a GSB.

As for casting.....well surprise, surprise, the GSB threw just as far or a bit further with all weights. I DID NOT EXPECT THIS. I tried to throw these rods equally hard. The Century was at a slight disadvantage because the guides were taped on and the reel seat on tape bushings (which makes things a little mushy) and the rod is new to me so timing was awkward at first but comfortable after 20 casts or so. Very definitely I could not establish a significant distance advantage to either blank throwing as hard as I can cast.

I did think the Century felt "crisper". As Mike P posted, at lighter weights the rod did cast with less effort than the GSB. I also was impressed at how smooth the rod unloaded at 3.5 oz, where the Lami seemed to be maxing out, but throwing somewhat further.

I then took them home and static tested them using weights. This was a surprise as well, so I took pictures. Turns out that the Century is a much lighter action rod than the GSB1201L. At least at partial load it is bending more than the GSB1201L. I didn't have a GSB 1 M to compare, but I did throw a SSU120mh in there for further comparison (see the pictures).

Bottom line. The Century Stealth 1 is a faster, thinner, 2 piece equivalent of a GSB1201L, maybe with some additional versatility at the upper and lower ranges (I didn't test under 1.5 oz, but the deflection test suggests it would handle stuff lighter than a 1201L).

Both rods perform very much the same in the weight ranges I fish. I'm not going to buy the Century because it is not an upgrade over the GSB1201L. Likewise, I don't think the Stealth 1 is going to be a replacement for a GSB 1201M. Hopefully Century will issue a 2-5 10 foot version to do that. Perhaps the CTS PJ 2007or 8 is.

P.S At the end I tested a GSB1321L with a 2.75 oz pencil. It out cast both rods by about 15 yards.

Here are some shots.

The first is of a SSU120mh (top) , a GSB1201L middle, and a Century Stealth S1 (bottom with taped guides). The camera is level with the rods. It is not a perspective trick. The GSB is the closer rod. Yes the Century bends more easily in this weight range right to the butt (but must stiffen faster as it is loaded).

The second is of just the Century and GSB alone.

Last is of the butt sections.

Here is what was on the STealth blank in case someone knows it is a different model than what has been discussed previously.

Excellent post. I have been looking foward to this. Confirms what I have thought its hard to beat the GSB although my SSU120mh is my primary rod.

Fluking was great today. Looking forward to the 11' stealth review.

Gald to see some semi quantitative data. Got to give you credit for going out there and doing it.

Now I will give you an honest critique on what you did and my honest interpretation of the info presented. I'm not criticising your work , just telling you what I see in your description. I'll start from the top.
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Taped on guides at the exact layout of a GSB1201L I have been using.
Titanium Lowriders into small runners.......about as good a layout as I can build.

taped on guides vs wrapped and epoxied guides. huge energy absorption of taped on guides. Exact layout as the GSB 120 1l despite the fact that your own static deflection test tells you not to use the same guide placements. Titanium lowriders ...on a moderate action 10 footer? To comment on this would involve direct criticism rather than just a different interpretation so I'll just point it out without further comments.
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Under high load (about 12lbs of drag) the Century has a stiffer lower half and softer upper 1/2. I don't have a picture to show this, but it is about how an Arra would bend relative to a GSB.

As I noted , the rod stacks up like a long bow as you get into the mid to high range of the blank. More casting power and more fish fighting power as you use the mid section of the rod to cast heavier loads and fight big fish , not the tips. Since the pictures should all show the extreme butt ends coming off the table at exactly the same height , the gap showing each rod lower than the one above it is deceiving. It does not neagte your conclusions on the actions , but to me it looks like with that correction that the higher power of the Stealth kicks in about 1/3 down the rod length vs 1/2 down the rod length. This further supports what I say about the relative power of the rods.
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the GSB threw just as far or a bit further with all weights. ... This where actual nuimbers would be prefered.

The Century was at a slight disadvantage because the guides were taped on and the reel seat on tape bushings (which makes things a little mushy)... slight disadvantage by how guides held on and placement relative to most active area of the century blank being further back than that of the GSB.
the rod is new to me so timing was awkward at first but comfortable after 20 casts or so. Very definitely I could not establish a significant distance advantage to either blank throwing as hard as I can cast.
If a rod you have never cast before casts with no significant difference in distance compared to a rod you have owned and used regularly , then it seems obvious that the GSB is casting the way it always does but the Stealth will ceratinly gain significance distance after you have had it and used it for a month and get the action relative to your casting timing down. To me , this is the biggest problem with the whole comparison. When I start using a new rod , its takes me a good months to get the max out of the new rod and its almost all to do with timing the casting motion with the action of the new rod.
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I did think the Century felt "crisper". As Mike P posted, at lighter weights the rod did cast with less effort than the GSB. I also was impressed at how smooth the rod unloaded at 3.5 oz, where the Lami seemed to be maxing out, but throwing somewhat further.
Clearly you sense better recovery in the Stealth and more power kicking in at the higer loads. Distance is far more related to timing under that kind of condition and it takes some time to get used to a rod with a different loading profile , slower action but faster recovery.
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My overall conclusions , a Stealth 10 footer with taped on guides , the guide sizes and placements on which were optimized on the 1201L but not on the Stealth, cast with no significant distance difference despite the fact that the 1201L was fully wrapped and epoxied with optimized guide locations.

"Your rod" a 120 1L with which you have large amounts of casting experience, with all the casting nuances of back loading , forward movement and punch up and release and especially timing (the single biggest factor in casting) ingrained in your body muscle memory vs a rod with significant action and associated power profile difference for which no guide adjustments were made and that you had never cast before in your life, only performed equally despite everything being to its advantage in the test.

The Stealth has obvious advantages in casting weight range and in recovery rate and recovery smoothness. It has more power as you go up in the casting weight range and the more powerful mid to bottom section should show better fish fighting characteristics on larger fish.
My conclusion, I cannot wait to see what the Stealth 10 feeter will do with an optimized build after i have learned to cast it for a month or so.

Anyway , comparing your analysis of the data and mine , one might think we had seen a totally different movie! :)

Not at all. I liked the Stealth and would buy one if I needed a rod comparable to the GSB1201L, particularly if I preferred a faster rod or needed a 2 piece. It is every bit as good and maybe a bit nicer than the GSB1201L. It is not a lot nicer, nor does it cast a lot further.

As I posted on another rod building site, I am well aware that the taped guides absorbed some force. Then again the GSB was out casting the Century by a few yards on most throws, so I assume the Century would catch up or maybe throw a few yards more finished. I am pretty confident it is not throwing 10 or 20 yards more.

I also think that a stronger person could likely get more out of the Stealth than I. I suspect I get as much out of the GSB as anyone, since I felt I was maxing the GSB out at 3.5 oz, but not the Century.

My points are three fold.

The rods weigh the same.

The rods perform VERY close to the same as far as distance is concerned. No way there is a quantum leap in distance.

The Stealth S1 is much more comparable to a GSB 1201L than a GSB 1201M......which I think is the most important point because a lot of info on the net suggests otherwise and a lot of guys may end up mislead. I hope Century makes, or has, a Stealth blank in the 10 foot 2-5 range, but this one is not it.

As for your bit about guide placement, the distance of a cast is determined by line flow on a straight blank. The static deflection optimization you propose matters when fighting a fish. Besides, these rods have 9 guides on them, the distribute load well. I did not detect any line slap on the Century with this guide layout and I would build it as such if I decided I wanted one.

Both are nice rods. I'd happily fish either and not feel like I was missing anything.

You got the ball rolling well George. I think others will zero in on different ways to build it for their aps. From all that input ,which we are lucky to get via the rodboards , eventually I think the optimized builds will cash in on the potential the autoclaved/nanoresin materials system can deliver.

A big thing to remember is that it appears to me that Century is a very progressive tech developer. It may take some more field input to determine the best way to cash in on autoclave manufacturing for these lighter rods just as they have already made several developments using that technology on the monster heavers and tournanemt casters models they build.

One of the biggest factors in favor of the centurys is they seem to be all but unbreakable.I put the same effort into them that went into the CTM that I broke at the Rhody show. I didn't back off in any way and they held up. I've had more than a few Lamis to replace due to casting overloads. Especially the lighter ones.As far as fishing goes well they both fit differently with the styles out there. The Stealth I beleive are made to fit the fishing styles in a wider variety of situations where the other Centurys are made with distance more in mind in how they're built.
As far as doing a test on a rod well both need to be built or taped and balanced the same to get a true reading as thread,guides and epoxy all change a rods action. The more of any makes a huge difference in how they perform.It's like putting a bunch of stiffeners to a rod.
I due like how you did the test though as it is working in the right direction.By the end of this summer several of us need to compare notes that have built and fished a few of both to get a better comparrison.I'm impressed with how the furrels hold. No probs on the 3 I'm fishing so far.The 9 1/2 the 10 stealth and the 11. Ron

One thing that I did notice about the 11' HJ 1327, after fishing it for a week, is that I am getting a slight amount of twist in the upper half of the rod while fishing. I've pretty much split its fishing time between throwing big surface plugs, and jigs or lead/plastic combos to 4 oz. One of the things people have told me is that the sections are hard to separate once you've set them and fished the rod for awhile, as is the case of the ferrules on the Mojo line from St. Croix. I did follow the advice that Ron Arra gives out, about lubricating the male part of the ferrule with one's facial oils before putting the sections together. But, as long as the sections don't lock in place with the guides out of alignment with the reel, I can live with it. It's just a little surprising, as I watched a couple of guys struggle to get one apart at the show.

The rod fits my casting style better than a GSB or SSU. As far as an XRA 1322 goes, I can't really do a fair side-by-side, as the Century has a concept layout with very light guides and short wraps, and the Arra has a COF layout with heavy V-frame Hardaloy guides (starting with a 50 mm) and longer wraps, including underwraps that traverse the entire length of the guide. My impression is, right now, both rods being built as they are, the Century throws farther starting at around 2.5 oz and up. Plus, it handles lead better. I haven't hooked into anything better than 20 lbs with it, so how it compares to the Arra when playing a fish is an open question. I've always felt that the 1322 fought a fish in current better than any other Lamiglas rod. Learning where the "power curve" of a rod works best on a big fish can only be done out there, with a big fish on the other end of the line. :D

As I stated before, I don't see any real similarities between the action of the 1322 and the HJ 1327. The Century is a lot faster in the tip, and the way it works a pencil popper is totally different. I would not want to even try to whip a pencil from an open beach, with no current, using the Century, and while the Arra may not be the ideal rod for it, it's certainly doable. To compare it to other rods that I've owned, to me, the Century is more like the All Star GSW 1267/2 than any other rod. Same tip size, too (9/64"), and very similar bend.

Here is an interesting shot of both rods under 2.5lbs of static tip load, which felt like as much as I dared subject them to, although obviously at full load in a cast they handle even more.

The Stealth has the taped guides, the GSB finished guides. Rotating the Stealth so the guides were vertical (they are not in the picture) had no effect.

The Stealth (at least in midflex) is a softer lighter action blank. The reason it casts a similar distance is likely that it uses technology and taper (I'll bet that at extreme load the difference in tip deflection narrows as the Stealth tightens up) to get more high end reserve power, but since it is designed for lighter action the end result is a similar amount of power transmission as the GSB.

I am also learning that the Stealth series is a different design than most other Century blanks that are stiffer and likely more geared towards casting.

Again, this Stealth blank builds a very nice and capable rod....so I am not bashing it at all....but if you are planning to replace your GSB1201M this is probably not the blank to do it. It is more in line with the power of the 1201L.

Last time Dave loans me a blank. ;)
Here they are at 3.5 lbs.
Interesting

Is your 1327 a spinner or a conventional Mike?

The ferrules seizing up if not seperated periodically is a definite possibility with any of the precision machined spigot joints. Its unlikely my Tip Tornado light will ever come apart because I put it together and never seperated it in 3 years. Tha's Ok for now but if my Blazer dies , I'll need to crackl that TTL apart and that may mean resorting to ice and leveraging my legs etc to try to seperate it. I think as long as the two parts come apart maybe once a month , they should not get too stuck.

I wish I could get the data I asked for from Anglers Resources relative to the fuji guide weights. I want to do some calcs but I also want to see some actual data comparing the KW and MN's as one set and cpomparing the KT's and the LAG's as another set.

Is your 1327 a spinner or a conventional Mike?

The ferrules seizing up if not seperated periodically is a definite possibility with any of the precision machined spigot joints. Its unlikely my Tip Tornado light will ever come apart because I put it together and never seperated it in 3 years. Tha's Ok for now but if my Blazer dies , I'll need to crackl that TTL apart and that may mean resorting to ice and leveraging my legs etc to try to seperate it. I think as long as the two parts come apart maybe once a month , they should not get too stuck.

I wish I could get the data I asked for from Anglers Resources relative to the fuji guide weights. I want to do some calcs but I also want to see some actual data comparing the KW and MN's as one set and cpomparing the KT's and the LAG's as another set.

It's a spinning rod. K-frames starting with a 30 mm first guide. I don't see the point of a "concept" build with conventional.

Actually, Fuji shows a way to do this with a conventional, although it seems unnecessary with the distances involved on a surf rod.

You have any interest in comparing the 11 foot Century to a GSB1321M? I'd expect the Century to excel but I, and likely others, would be curious to see how big a difference there really is between the blanks when casting and under static load. If Saltheart has his 11' Stealth by then and is free it could be even better. This weekend the traffic is too crazy, but we might be able to meet some weekday evening at the canal or Voke field.

George your analysis was much more scientific that mine, but I'm glad we came out with pretty much the same impression of it. When you were throwing it what oz plugs did you think were its sweet spot ?

Actually, Fuji shows a way to do this with a conventional, although it seems unnecessary with the distances involved on a surf rod.

You have any interest in comparing the 11 foot Century to a GSB1321M? I'd expect the Century to excel but I, and likely others, would be curious to see how big a difference there really is between the blanks when casting and under static load. If Saltheart has his 11' Stealth by then and is free it could be even better. This weekend the traffic is too crazy, but we might be able to meet some weekday evening at the canal or Voke field.

Sure. I'll be out of the country for two weeks starting a week from tomorrow (and have a lot to tend to in the week ahead) but I'd love to try it when I get back.

George your analysis was much more scientific that mine, but I'm glad we came out with pretty much the same impression of it. When you were throwing it what oz plugs did you think were its sweet spot ?

I think 2- 2.5 would be fair for me, but I thought the rod was very comfortable well above and below that.

i have fished for 8wks the 2 piece century 11ft 3to5oz low rider guides w/ a emblem pro w40lb samiari line .i find it feels quicker, cast farther , is much lighter but more powerfull than my 10-3 ss lami. as for casting in the canal i find a 21/2 to 3oz loaded cordell is ideal for distance.its not the wonder rod but for the price its a great rod for casting a full range of plugs from b-tails jiggs to sebiles to topwater plugs. i;m glad i have mine.obtw. i fish 4-6days a wk on the canal ,and i play hard with the rod its a gread rod for the money for canal fishing.BUT GEORGE IT STILL WON'T HELP UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU stay in your boat and cast too the rocks not from them:jump1:

It's a spinning rod. K-frames starting with a 30 mm first guide. I don't see the point of a "concept" build with conventional.

Its done in a similar way as with a spinner. You use spool top hight and spool width on a conventional Fuji Guide Concept build vs Spool diameter and upslope on a spinner.

Same ideas though. Quick as possible get the line under control and close to the blank and then shoot it straight out inside little guides.

Actually, Fuji shows a way to do this with a conventional, although it seems unnecessary with the distances involved on a surf rod.

You have any interest in comparing the 11 foot Century to a GSB1321M? I'd expect the Century to excel but I, and likely others, would be curious to see how big a difference there really is between the blanks when casting and under static load. If Saltheart has his 11' Stealth by then and is free it could be even better. This weekend the traffic is too crazy, but we might be able to meet some weekday evening at the canal or Voke field.

I would like to see an 11 foot stealth tested along with an XRA 1322 and the GSB 1321M. However , what I want to see is suitability for application testing. Yes this will involve some casting distance testing but if I were interested in disnce only at the canal I would bring my tip tornado light and just blast them out there. Of course I know its awfully hard to land fish less than 3 feet long with that rod. I need to use heavy weights so feel like I need a chiropractor after using the rod. It does not help you get good casts with minimal effort all night long, it enables you to cast really far if you work your butt off.

Now if I want to win a casting contest I woutd grab the TTL but if I am going to the canal to fish for the night with the goal of landing fish , IMO the XRA 1205 is a far better rod for the application. No contest at all in suitability for application despite there being no contest against the TTL if all we want is distance.

So anyway , without getting too deep into it in this post, when I build the Stealth 11 footer , i will be building it for suitability to application. Doing that on a new to market blank takes quite a while. So I think the timeframe may be more like a months or so after i receive the blank and guides , etc. But I think it will be interesting to see how each blank performs in the application it was built for.


Now if you factor the idea of suitability for aplication in the previous testing and discussions about the 10 footer vs the 120 1L , you will see that that is the basis for a nmber of the comments i made and how I interpret the data differently. An example, the use of the same guides and guide locations on both so that only the blank is the variable. now I can tell you that after tossing eels into the darkness for better than 3 decades, there is no way ever under any circumstances that I would build the 10 foot stealth as an all around plugging and eeling rod using LC guides. That's just an example though and of course expresses a preference for that application on my part.

So anyway , the thing I am hoping people will think about is that rods should be compared on the basis of their suitability for the intended application and they should be built with that specific application in mind. Its a lot easier to build them all the same and then measure the lengths of casts but I think people need to think beyond that, especially when looking at a total newcomer blank (s).

Just remember that the concept system is a one reel one rod system. You have to replace the reel with one of the smae or similar dimensions tyo make it work. you up size and you will see a difference in performance. It's a good idea to look at a modified set up as few have the money these days to lock out a replacement that may not match the guide set-up. Flexability is important when you put the money in a custom rod that your gonna use for multiple types of fishing,ie eels,plugs,jigs or metal.Bait well distance is a rare thing with 6 oz of lead and 6 oz of bait.

LOL Amazing how rod builders that have fished and not just built think along the same lines.

LOL Amazing how rod builders that have fished and not just built think along the same lines.

Yep. Fisherman first, rod builder second! I can teach someone how to wrap parts onto a blank in 1 hour. To know where and why and how to wrap those parts on would require them to understand the fishing application . It takes a really long time to learn that!

now I can tell you that after tossing eels into the darkness for better than 3 decades, there is no way ever under any circumstances that I would build the 10 foot stealth as an all around plugging and eeling rod using LC guides. .
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Please. Although I share your opinion on the importance of picking a blank based on how you and it fish together (rather than on internet hype or casting distance) I find the quote above a bit condescending.

The guide system I am using on the 1201L and tried on the Stealth builds a very, very good FISHING rod. Casts great, is lighter than anything else out there, and fights fish nicely. Those are my priorities. If you rate weed clearance, knot passage, large reel compatibility, and guide cost higher than I do, then clearly it is not the layout for you. To each their own. No need to imply that the other's priorities are wrong.

Likewise, your implication that the guide layout in some manner hugely compromised the test is specious. You, of all people, know that a blank with 9 guides will load evenly during a cast, and that once that blank unloads the line flow is reel height, spool size, guide type/size/placement, and line type dependent.....BUT NOT BLANK dependent.

The S1 is a very nice blank, so is the GSB1201L. There isn't a dramatic difference between them that I can see, but if you wrap one spinning with a K guide layout and want to compare side by side I'd be thrilled because I'd rather be wrong and learn than wrong and clueless (even though the latter is my norm). That is my only reason for wanting to compare the two 11' Century's and the big GSB as well. Not to decide which is "better" for everyone else, but to learn how they are different so I can make an informed decision which I think is best for me. I suspect we agree on that approach.

One of the things that is so important in testing is blank recovery after the initial part of the cast. like the old lami sb136 2 f and the 136 2 m. one kept wiggling long into the cast costing distance the other was so fast it would cast your eel off.Hook set in these new blanks is all over the place some to the point the hook gets pulled.All factors irregardless of cost must be figured in so that the best info is available to include flexability in fishing.ie reel,line and so on.
From what I've found so far lami,st croixand century all have a different idea in the build so tot try and replace one with the other is gonna be a hard sell all around as to use anyone of them you loose something that you liked in another rod at a different time.But reliability of the manufacturer is a major selling point.Lami is hedgy at best on their warrantee,St croix has a hard time keeping their reel seats glued on Century is the new kid so to speak backed by the rep of Hatteras Jack and some very good fisherman.
As far as guides well no 2 custom rods balance out the same with the same guides especially with different companys. Blank thickness,wraps,guide length,amount of finish and reel placement all make a big difference from rod to rod and angler to angler. the rod i build for you will not work the same for me.

BTW Nice thread

Something to keep in mind when getting to know the Stealth series of rods. And that is both the S1 and T1 Stealths were designed primarily for carp fishing in the UK. these rods were built soft so as to not to impart to much force on the fish to pull hooks from soft mouths. Also as the name implies the were designed for soft presentations. with lighter baits. Here those rods transcend thier original intent and are outstanding rods for small swim bait and larger and still have a lot of backbone to to turn fish.
Now the 11 is a whole new rod. If fedex is ontime I should have my hands on one tomorrow afternoon. If anyone wants a quick review and an opinion on it I would be happy to write someting up quick and post it

Big Dave

I look forward to it Dave
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

me to, I personally think that 11ft rods fit my build better, I had an allstar 1208 conventional used it for a month then sold it, I liked my xra1322 better, it just fit better for me,

Please. Although I share your opinion on the importance of picking a blank based on how you and it fish together (rather than on internet hype or casting distance) I find the quote above a bit condescending.

The guide system I am using on the 1201L and tried on the Stealth builds a very, very good FISHING rod. Casts great, is lighter than anything else out there, and fights fish nicely. Those are my priorities. If you rate weed clearance, knot passage, large reel compatibility, and guide cost higher than I do, then clearly it is not the layout for you. To each their own. No need to imply that the other's priorities are wrong.

Likewise, your implication that the guide layout in some manner hugely compromised the test is specious. You, of all people, know that a blank with 9 guides will load evenly during a cast, and that once that blank unloads the line flow is reel height, spool size, guide type/size/placement, and line type dependent.....BUT NOT BLANK dependent.

The S1 is a very nice blank, so is the GSB1201L. There isn't a dramatic difference between them that I can see, but if you wrap one spinning with a K guide layout and want to compare side by side I'd be thrilled because I'd rather be wrong and learn than wrong and clueless (even though the latter is my norm). That is my only reason for wanting to compare the two 11' Century's and the big GSB as well. Not to decide which is "better" for everyone else, but to learn how they are different so I can make an informed decision which I think is best for me. I suspect we agree on that approach.

No attempt in my post to say your build was wrong or faulty. I use the example of the guide choices. I don't say there is anything wrong , just that I would not do it that way. In fact just to be sure I didn't tread on anybodies toes I added the sentence...That's just an example though and of course expresses a preference for that application on my part.

Also , the statement that there is no need to imply someone else's priorities are wrong is a little puzzling. again , I am just trying to state that evaluating the rod blanks can involve a lot of things that for one fisherman or one application may be important to some but not to others. Guide placements mean nothing except how they effect the suitability for applications.

In fact I think the clear difference in how you and I and others sometimes look at things is a very sound basis for discussion. My belief is that these new materials system will take a lot of work to develop into optimized builds and the more input , the better. It would be a very boring topic if everybody simply posted ...I agree. :)

Your builds are very good numbskull.. Believe me when I say that if I didn't think they were good , I wouldn't waste the time to do the indepth analysis and make the comments. All the input helps me a lot. I already know a ton about the 10 foot stealth from your builds and testing of the two rods relative to eachother. and have already factored that into what I will be doing with the 11 footer , a blank I have not even seen yet. So remember that when I get eccentric about some of this stuff , its just the way I look at things and in no way should be taken as criticism. Its all just points of discussion to me and I learn as much from deciding I will not do it the same way someone else did as i do when I decide I will do it the way someone else did.

Some of the newer rod companies focused jigging and throwing lures at tuna, GT's, etc; using some similar graphite technologies, are also planning to build rods for surf fisherman.

Not sure what the end result will be or if and when it will come to pass. It's easy to forget "surf fisherman" aren't just in the NorthEast US so the tapers may or may not be that interesting to us.

The prototypes I've handled (but not cast) don't have the "originally built for carp" taper Big Dave was mentioning, for better or worse.

One of the worst thing that happens to fishermen everywhere is that if there's a buck to be made every company chases it. But without input from people that fish the areas and know what works all you get is lip service and a rod that performs poorly.In the custom tackle industry there are loads of people that build and make stuff but don't hardly or ever use what they make. a rod builder that fishes for tuna don't know jack about surf fishing and same same of a surf fishermen that don't boat fish.even worse is the clown on a design board planning a rod that doesn't do either with only the prifit mottif in mind.For anglers looking for a nice custom rod to fish in their area be real carefull of the stuff that isn't fished where you are.Look at what the hard cores are using and don't skimp. go to a rod builder that fishes where you do so he has a clue of what your talking about and if the rod builder isn't going to see you to size you for the rod and grip location and talk to you about what and where your gonna use the rod be carefull.Custom is custom. a fisherman knows what your talking about. Ron