Just when we hoped for a little better: 4) For the striped bass recreational fishery, a 2 fish daily possession limit for the recreational striped bass fishery was approved (minimum size to remain at 28”). The decision to allow two fish at the 28” minimum size versus a slot limit was made as:

· this measure meets the resource conservation objectives of Amendment 6;

· most of the fish composing the “second fish harvest” would fall below 40 inches where most population abundance resides,

· it will be simpler to enforce and for anglers to comply with;

· and finally, it would be consistent with regulations in most other states.

So much for responsible management of a species :( . At least we could have lived with a second fish over 40". Now every backwinder can talk himself into keeping TWO 27 inch fish when he convinces himself they are really 28 :doh:

Is this Mass or RI.

The comm's don't want you taking their fish... (not really!) but the two fish limit combined with the 43% increase in tonnage (of big breeder fish) the comms get to take will put some real pressure on the fish.
Quick! lets get all we can while they are still out there...thats the logic.

As I understand it (probably not too well), under Amendment 6, not using your quota means it'll wind up somewhere else. Here in NY they tried rolling back the season opening to April 15 (from May 8 in previous years) to add additional mortality. With the colder than normal winter and the delayed arrival of fish in most places, we're probably gonna get a 2 fish bag sometime in the fall. :(

:doh: That's just going to hurt us further down the line. I agree that the regs should be more uniform up and down the coast, but I don't agree with a two fish bag. Like John says, it just opens the door for twice as many shorts to go home with dishonest people (I don't even want to classify them as anglers):af: We won't feel the effects until it's too late as in years past:lossinit: :peessed:

Thats the problem with quotas... its gonna be taken...just who gets their hands on it. Its the mine mine mine attitude...nothing but a bunch of 3 year olds. This whole thing is so poorly handled that it is making me downright sick.:yak:

Don't forget the huge commerical black market that already exsists for bass...its bigger then the actual commerical makret. 4500 lic in MA and only 1500 actually reported selling any fish....gimme a break!

Enforcement? It does not exist. I have live and fished in NY, CT, RI and MA for bass my whole life...and I NEVER was stopped and I NEVER even SAW or heard of anyone getting busted for taking a short...its a friggin joke.

IMO shut it all off...no taking of any bass coastwide. I can live with that.

This is Mass - full e-mail alert is here:

MAY 2, 2003

MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
PASSES NEW REGULATIONS FOR
SCALLOPS, TRAWL MESH, LOBSTER, SCUP & STRIPED BASS.

At the May 1, 2003 monthly business meeting of the state's Marine Fisheries Advisory Commission (MFC), new regulations were enacted affecting commercial lobster fishermen in Areas 2, 3 and outer Cape Cod, sea scallop hand harvesters, recreational and commercial striped bass fishermen, commercial scup fishermen and the trawl fishery. These issues were discussed at February 3-4 and April 14, 16 & 17 public hearings and will be in effect on May 23, 2003 (please note emergency regulations became effective on May 2, 2003).

1) A 1 bushel (whole)/ 4 quarts (shucked meats) possession limit for the recreational scallop fishery was passed. Hand harvesters of scallops with any quantities above this recreational limit will each be required to possess individual commercial permits endorsed for sea scallop diving. Out-of-state harvesters from states without reciprocal privileges will be prohibited from obtaining such an endorsement.

These changes were based on a petition received by MarineFisheries to amend current scallop regulations as a means to better manage this fishery and create licensing reciprocity between states’ of concern (MA & ME).

2) A 6 ½” trawl minimum mesh size for the cod-end was passed (6” throughout the remainder of the net). This action amends current stricter regulations that require a 6 ½” trawl minimum mesh size throughout the entire net. This new regulation complements the current federal regulation.

3) The 3 11/32” minimum size for lobsters in LCMA 2, currently in place through emergency action, was permanently adopted along with a scheduled increase to 3 3/8” on July 1, 2003 (an increase to 3 11/32” on July 1, 2003 for LCMA 3 and OCC was previously approved). Although this is a compliance issue with the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission fishery management plan, there was general support for this measure at the public hearings as the Area 2 Lobster Conservation Management Team was actively involved in calling for such increased measures to address the drastic decline in stock conditions.

4) For the striped bass recreational fishery, a 2 fish daily possession limit for the recreational striped bass fishery was approved (minimum size to remain at 28”). The decision to allow two fish at the 28” minimum size versus a slot limit was made as:

· this measure meets the resource conservation objectives of Amendment 6;

· most of the fish composing the “second fish harvest” would fall below 40 inches where most population abundance resides,

· it will be simpler to enforce and for anglers to comply with;

· and finally, it would be consistent with regulations in most other states.

5) The following measures to amend the commercial scup summer fishery period regulations were taken:

· Weir set-aside increased to 225,000-lbs;

· 100-lb. possession limit for fishermen fishing by hook-and-line or pots during the open black sea bass season prior to July 1;

· August 1 start date for the directed fishery;

· directed fishery possession limit increased to 400-lbs;

· and Friday was added to the current no-fishing days of Saturday and Sunday.

6) Emergency action (effective May 2, 2003) was taken to adopt a May 1, 2003 control date for the commercial striped bass fishery after which any person issued a new commercial fisherman’s permit endorsed for striped bass fishing will not be assured of future access to or participation in this fishery if a management regime is developed and implemented that limits the number of participants in this fishery.

7) Finally, the Director extended the moratorium on lobster license transfers and restrictions on issuance of commercial offshore lobster permits enacted on February 6, 2003.

8) The proposed MarineFisheries effort control plan will be aired at public hearings on May 27th in Gloucester and May 29th in Taunton.

For more information please contact MarineFisheries at 617.626.1520

or visit our website at www.mass.gov/marinefisheries.

"Emergency action (effective May 2, 2003) was taken to adopt a May 1, 2003 control date for the commercial striped bass fishery after which any person issued a new commercial fisherman’s permit endorsed for striped bass fishing will not be assured of future access to or participation in this fishery if a management regime is developed and implemented that limits the number of participants in this fishery."

This proves its all about personal greed for the few...

Its a quota system...it doesn't matter how many fisherman there are...in fact more commerical fisherman means more lic. fees...why don't they want more commerical fisherman? BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT "THEIR FISH" (read their fat share) DILUTED. This proves that the people on the board who vote are part of or in bed with those with commerical interets.

Good thing I got my comm lic last winter , maybe I can auction it off on Ebay:yak:

Can't believe you guys are suprised.......look, I just came back from Jersey.....the land of the fish grab.....

One day while I was there, I went to a B&T and saw three guys weigh in six fish....one guy had one at 28" (just barely). Another guy had one at 25" and another about 34" (they have a "slot" down there....yeah right, nice slot one at 24-28 and another at 28+). The third guy had three fish, his "slot" fish, his "keeper" and his one on the "bonus tag". (The "Bonus Tag" supposedly is NJ Rec's "right" to the fish the the Com's can't keep down there)

These are guys that go out everyday or every other day, and weigh in stuff like that 4-5 times a week......

Okay, I'm guilty.....I travelled 300 miles one way, spent over $400 on motel, gas, bait, food, beer (okay maybe a good chunk on beer....;)).......I kept two fish over 6 days....one was 28 1/2", the other, 27.9999999".

Probably two out of the maybe four stripers I'll keep all year.

In the meantime, there are guys like the above that will keep 2-3 fish every week for 30 weeks out of the year.

Not to mention the netters I saw a 1/4 mile or so off the coast.....yep, they are out there for mackeral and weakfish....NJ has no commercial striper fishery.....um, yeah, right......I dunno....the one net I saw had to be at least a half mile long......ya think it had a sign on it that said "mackeral and weakfish only, please"?.....and no matter whether they kept the stripers that couldn't read, or threw them back, they are dead fish either way.

So I can't get all riled over 2 fish a day at 28.....as much as I would prefer something different......the one at 28 and the one over 40 sounded good to me.......

But looking at the regs up and down the coast, can you really blame the Mass guys for deciding to "get their share"?

QUOTE:

"it will be simpler to enforce and for anglers to comply with"

Comon how hard is it to comply with one 28-40 and one over 40.
Got a tape measure !

Its not rocket science. Oh,,,it must be cause it will be easier to enforce... ENFORCE !!! COMON. $*%&^ JOKE.

At the DMF hearing I attended last month almost all recs voiced their opinion for the slot of one 28-40 and one over 40 or status quo. What happened ??:af:


HEY THIS IS MY 1000th post. What a blabber mouth !!! :smash:

You want to get sick? Go to any market in Chinatown and check out all the shorts they're selling.:sick: :yak4: Sucks when the market will support the over harvesting of a fragile fishery. :af:

Who do we call/send letters to let our voices be heard.

This is an abomination. Why are they trying to kill ALL of the fish?

Enforcement issues? You've got to be kidding me.

I'm sick over this. I wish it was back to 36''+.

:af: :af: :af: :af: :af: :af: :af:
That's just pissa :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash:

Now the charter boats can limit out with catches similar to Capt Rick Caton from NC :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I am not surprised , just disgusted. If ya can't beat'em, join'em:af: NO WAY Mass took the easy road I guess, instead of taking the lead.:mad: :mad: :mad:

How much do golf clubs cost?:mad:

How bought the commercial guy from Fairhaven. Took a tantrum when no one would second his motion on commercial guys not being able to possess a striper on off days.
I heard he thru a chair across the room and got taken out by the EPO's
:smash: :smash:

Originally posted by mikecc
How bought the commercial guy from Fairhaven. Took a tantrum when no one would second his motion on commercial guys not being able to possess a striper on off days.
I heard he thru a chair across the room and got taken out by the EPO's
:smash: :smash: Didn't hear this one, can you explain a little more?

I guess this guy has a bad temper he was blaming president of Mass Bass for having the fix on the meeting in Weymouth and said he stacked the room with members.


We all know that that is not true. But he had to have some one to blame

Haven't read the new rules yet:confused:

If JohnR is right about the two fish limit meaning that i can now catch two fish over 28" per day as a recreational fisherman that means recreational fishermen will catch approximately 3-4 million lbs. per year. What's wrong with that??? :D :D I love it:happy: :happy: Don't complain about the commercial guy only being able to catch 1 million lbs.

Mr. Sandman, you don't know what you are talking about:smash: :smash: :smash:

Mr. Sandman you are not all wrong:cool: :cool: Ido agree with you about women in waders:happy: :happy: :happy:

Gentlemen,

A few thoughts...

1) Though a lot of us were in favor of 1 over 28 and one over 40 the numbers show there to be almost no difference due to the relatively few people who take bass over 28" to begin with. some will disagree with this statement but it is just true. the average person takes less than one keeper bass per year. I thought this was BS the first time I read it but I, as most of us on this board are the exeption, rather than the rule. I still do not like the 2 over 28, but it is not that bad.

2) In the time I have been reading this board I have never read complaints about all the states South of MA that have been taking 2 fish, including our beloved RI.

3) for those who are complaining on this board and want to write letters to express their opinion.....TOO LATE YOU FOOL...

there was extensive information out on this board and in many other places around the hearings of two weeks ago...that was the time to get your voice heard...now it is just plain too late...please remember that if each one of you wrote a letter or showed up at a hearing and gave your opinion, things might be different

4) I would go on but why...those complaining here seem to be just like most recs...they want things to happen then do not show up to be part of the process....it is a damn shame

Mike P. wrote....

"As I understand it (probably not too well), under Amendment 6, not using your quota means it'll wind up somewhere else."


Mike , this is not true..

I agree with every syllable of what Patrick said (perhaps a first for me :rolleyes: ).

I went to at least 4 fishing websites and posted the announcement for the hearing well in advance (if it wasn't already there). After the hearing, I went back to these same posts and replied "Just curious, did anyone on this forum attend?" Out of all the forums, I think that the forum with the most attendees was three.

In the past, I enjoyed coming to striped-bass.com because it was the one place that I could count on for a "common man's" perspective on fishing. Indeed, there once was a time when this was the one fishing site that anyone could turn to without reading page after page of whining drivel from misinformed / uninformed elitists. Unfortunately, things have changed. I can't even post a herring report here without being "cautioned" for taking prespawning fish. This, despite the fact that I get my herring at the best managed run in the state. Yet somehow the folks here seem think they know better? Please! Give me a break!

Now somehow I'm a greedy fishgrabber if want to keep 2 keeper bass a day - even if the best available science says that it is OK for me to do so. Huh? Newsflash folks: Before it was called "sportfishing", it was just called plain old "fishing".

I blows my mind how so many folks who do not participate in the process have so much to say against the outcome.

It also disturbs me when folks have such a knee jerk reaction to any relaxation in fishing regs. Just check out the title of this thread and consider that its author didn't even attend the meeting yet he has no problem portraying the outcome as doom and gloom. It may surprise the many folks here who weren't at the meeting that going to 2 @ 28'' does not equate to a 100% increase in the real take but only a 21% increase.

Van, I love ya man, but actually 3 out of the 4 fishing clubs in attendance voted for the 2 @ 28'' option.

- Plum Island Surfcasters (2 @ 28'')
- Marblehead Surfcasters (2 @ 28'')
- Cape Cod Salties (2 @ 28'')
- Massachusetts Striped Bass Association (1 @ 28'' plus 1 over 40'')

Yes, there were several individuals who got up and advocated for the "1 @ 28'' plus 1 over 40'' option (including myself). But let's face it, most of those folks were also MSBA members and it is somewhat redundant to also include them in the count since their (our) position is largely accounted for in the formal MSBA position. Don't get me wrong. There is something to be said about the inherent passion it takes for there to be a physical body present and speaking to the comission in one's own words. However, number-wise, the total number of folks who supported option "C" is somewhat skewed due to the forestated reason.

Check out the audio at the following link. John and Slipnot, I suggest that you particularly listen to the last sound bite where Paul Diodati and Tom Smith discuss "pre-crash" take limits and then ask yourself again if this is "responsible management of a species" or not "taking the lead".

http://www.basspond.com/cgi-bin/ib/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=8;t=50


While I too didn't get the outcome that I had hoped for, I can certainly live with it. I personally find saltwater fishing to be a feast or famine endevour and I get skunked more often than not. It would be nice to take 2 fish home on the days when they are really biting, but only if the science supports it - which it does. By-the-way, the commission's vote was unanimous.

All this said, I am all done with trying to get folks from websites interested in these hearings because I am now convinced that all it will do is negate my own view. In other words, I want take limits to be decided by looking at the best available science and not by the babble of a bunch of whining, doom and gloom, elitists. That goes for all of the fishing forums out there since there doesn't seem to be a dime's worth of difference between any of them anymore.

Actually, now in hindsight Patrick, I have to say that there is something about your post that I do disagree with. You say that it is a "damn shame" that those complaining here do not show up to be a part of the process. I disagree. I say don't bother trying to get them involved. It's not a shame at all that they don't come to the hearings. Let them all continue to talk amongst themselves here where they will have no real impact on the process. We would all be better served by input from those who don't look at these fish as toys, but rather, look at them as chowder and fillets.

Mike Flaherty

:smash: :af: :af: :smash: :af: :af:

Dumb, just plain dumb what thier doing to the fishery. I'm deppressed thinking about what this means to most of the people who fish for linesiders as a sport. Looks like we are heading for the bad days agian.

:yak:


This being said, I love to eat the fish I catch, I'll keep 2. Just being honest.

How do I join a club so I can vote on issues in the future?

Its a free for all! GRAB ALL YOU CAN WHILE THE GOING IS GOOD! That is the message I hear!

:rocketem:

Flats i totally agree.living in VT. it makes it hard to attend meetings.what gets me is that people can go out and catch 20 to 70 fish a trip and still say there are no fish. if youlook at the past decline most people who weren't even born yet will say over fishing caused the coolapse, when in reality it was the pollution and destruction of the breeding grounds of the fish.the pollution of the cheesapeakebay from the farm run off. the building of houses and bulking eveery creek on the NE coast. the run off of fertiziler on our lawns etc. the 'overfishing" just finished off what was already dead.

I agree with every syllable of what Patrick said (perhaps a first for me FPRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=").

I agree with most of what Patrick is saying as he does know a lot about what he speaks of. Based on a few more years of experience.

I went to at least 4 fishing websites and posted the announcement for the hearing well in advance (if it wasn't already there). After the hearing, I went back to these same posts and replied "Just curious, did anyone on this forum attend?" Out of all the forums, I think that the forum with the most attendees was three.

In the past, I enjoyed coming to striped-bass.com because it was the one place that I could count on for a "common man's" perspective on fishing. Indeed, there once was a time when this was the one fishing site that anyone could turn to without reading page after page of whining drivel from misinformed / uninformed elitists. Unfortunately, things have changed. I can't even post a herring report here without being "cautioned" for taking prespawning fish. This, despite the fact that I get my herring at the best managed run in the state. Yet somehow the folks here seem think they know better? Please! Give me a break!

Mike - I'm excited that you have learned all there is to know about fisheries management in the whole 2 years you've been following it - kinda sounds like you are the expert now - and now can lead the masses into proper fisheries management. I think that is amazing cause I see people that have been going for years that will admit that it is not easy to follow and always a challenge. But now we have you, the defender of the common man (What the Hell is the "Common Man" anyway??) Well, fortunately this place is where you DISCUSS amongst other anglers the ying and yang of fishing, state of the fisheries, how to catch the dang fish AND release it if so choses, or who will win the playoffs. That's what happens in a community (usually) like this. People can climb up on top of their soap box - I do it from time to time myself. You certainly can be found on the highest Soap Boxes all over the place. But I degress. Apparently we need to whine and drivel.

I can't even post a herring report here without being "cautioned" for taking prespawning fish. This, despite the fact that I get my herring at the best managed run in the state. Yet somehow the folks here seem think they know better? Please! Give me a break!

You think that taking a herring before is spawns makes no difference than taking them when they are dropping back? Ever hear how mommy fish make baby fish (in this case lots of baby fish) and that this fosters GROWTH in a fishery? YOU may be taking these fish from the best managed herring run in the world but you can't tell me that taking fish that have yet to spawn is no different than taking fish that are dropping down. This is purely a case of you filling your freezer because its cheap at the expense of the fish. But WTH, if you don't do it someone else will and that just aint right, eh? Since it's LEGAL, better you stock up on them before they spawn then someone else does. And it's not like you were leaving the run and feeding these fish to hungry bass because they weren't there 3 weeks ago. Hey since it's legal maybe I should keep every 28.5 " fish I barely manage to keep whenever I get 2, that will show me that I'm a great angler. Hi honey I'm home! Got Dinner! Just because it's legal doesn't make it right or better.

Now somehow I'm a greedy fishgrabber if want to keep 2 keeper bass a day - even if the best available science says that it is OK for me to do so. Huh? Newsflash folks: Before it was called "sportfishing", it was just called plain old "fishing".

Did the best science change in 4 months? Did the best science state that if the commercial allocation was increased by a third and the recreation believed "take" was increased by nearly a third, it would have no impact on the fishery? Did best available science, which as of a few months ago intimated that there might be a closed season if we took nearly a third more fish - change? And that other drastic measures would need to be considered if triggers are hit in following years because things turned too hard on the fish? Were the numbers crunched often enough that eventually it was determined OK? Personally I think that you need to allow for a good cushion as the scientist don't always like to admit that their numbers are not based on hard fact but are based on educated guesses. These educated guesses are than weighed and factored against other educated guesses, all the while the cirular error or probability gets wider and wider. It's informed and well thoguht out gueswork Mike. How do you ruin a fishery that's becoming stable? You open it up another third.

I blows my mind how so many folks who do not participate in the process have so much to say against the outcome.

Thankfully we have the defender of the "Common Man" doing this for us. Now I'll be honest, I do respect and appreciate that you go to most of these meetings, forward the bazillion e-mails that you forward on everything from local issues to the feelings of sea scallops in the East China Sea, post the thousand messages all over the net, I do appreciate the dedication you bring to the table. And you are right that a lot more people should be involved but get off your high horse a little when you do it.

It also disturbs me when folks have such a knee jerk reaction to any relaxation in fishing regs. Just check out the title of this thread and consider that its author didn't even attend the meeting yet he has no problem portraying the outcome as doom and gloom. It may surprise the many folks here who weren't at the meeting that going to 2 @ 28'' does not equate to a 100% increase in the real take but only a 21% increase.

The "author of this thread" did not attend this meeting as the wife of "the author of this thread", living in another state I might add, had to go home to watch the son of the "author of this thread" so the wife of the "author of this thread" could go to class. Now pehaps I could have left work even earlier, drive the 65 miles from work thru Boston and Providence, picked up my son, drive the 55 miles back to the club and drive back home before his 7:30 bedtime. All for a fisheries meeting in another state. Flaherty - get your head out of your butt and know what you are talking about please.

Van, I love ya man, but actually 3 out of the 4 fishing clubs in attendance voted for the 2 @ 28'' option.

- Plum Island Surfcasters (2 @ 28'')
- Marblehead Surfcasters (2 @ 28'')
- Cape Cod Salties (2 @ 28'')
- Massachusetts Striped Bass Association (1 @ 28'' plus 1 over 40'')

Van - grats on the 1000th post :D

Yes, there were several individuals who got up and advocated for the "1 @ 28'' plus 1 over 40'' option (including myself). But let's face it, most of those folks were also MSBA members and it is somewhat redundant to also include them in the count since their (our) position is largely accounted for in the formal MSBA position. Don't get me wrong. There is something to be said about the inherent passion it takes for there to be a physical body present and speaking to the comission in one's own words. However, number-wise, the total number of folks who supported option "C" is somewhat skewed due to the forestated reason.

See above

Check out the audio at the following link. John and Slipnot, I suggest that you particularly listen to the last sound bite where Paul Diodati and Tom Smith discuss "pre-crash" take limits and then ask yourself again if this is "responsible management of a species" or not "taking the lead".

http://www.basspond.com/cgi-bin/ib/...act=ST;f=8;t=50

When I have the oodles of time - perhaps tonight if I get chance to reinstall a sound card - I'll go over and listen to it...

While I too didn't get the outcome that I had hoped for, I can certainly live with it. I personally find saltwater fishing to be a feast or famine endevour and I get skunked more often than not. It would be nice to take 2 fish home on the days when they are really biting, but only if the science supports it - which it does. By-the-way, the commission's vote was unanimous.

I'm glad you can live with it. I'm glad that in the 2 or so years since you've gotten into saltwater fishing and have become an expert on all things saltwater - feast or famine or not - that you can live with this. I remember an inkling of what it was like 25+ years ago, I remember filling 5 gallon buckets of 18" fish (and it was "legal" then too) I'm glad the science supports it. I'm glad that I can attempt to debate this with you here and that there are people to debate it with. I'm glad of all the things we discuss here other than I will be greatly pi$$ed if this fishery is run aground again.

All this said, I am all done with trying to get folks from websites interested in these hearings because I am now convinced that all it will do is negate my own view. In other words, I want take limits to be decided by looking at the best available science and not by the babble of a bunch of whining, doom and gloom, elitists. That goes for all of the fishing forums out there since there doesn't seem to be a dime's worth of difference between any of them anymore.

Mike - show us the way to this panacea of knowledge that you must posess. Us Doom & Gloom Elitists need a leader such as yourself. We're obviously would rather babble about it. Otherwise toss away an avenue to correct the situation and don't let the door hit you in the ass

Actually, now in hindsight Patrick, I have to say that there is something about your post that I do disagree with. You say that it is a "damn shame" that those complaining here do not show up to be a part of the process. I disagree. I say don't bother trying to get them involved. It's not a shame at all that they don't come to the hearings. Let them all continue to talk amongst themselves here where they will have no real impact on the process. We would all be better served by input from those who don't look at these fish as toys, but rather, look at them as chowder and fillets.

Mike it is a "dam shame" that more people are not involved or show up to meetings of follow the newsletters and brochures but I also think I smell a case of meeting elitism on your part. And I think you are suffereing from mild acute optical rectumitis if you think we should view these fish purely as food. Not everything should be looked at as food. I personally feel that you need to look at all the ways - food, income to the individual and community, god forbid look out a little for the fish, the forage, and yes the, uhh, what is it - sport.

I really wish I could spend more time reading this and responding my son wants to play and I'd rather do that than follow up further on this "elitist drivel". If you don't like it, the door is there, if you want to participate in a constructive manner you are encouraged to do so, if you want to charge windmills with a toothbrush you can do that too.

And speaking only for myself - do not EVER question my desire to go to these meetings. Do not EVER question my decisions to forgoe a meeting when my wife or son is sick - EVER. Going to a meeting in Danvers near where you work or to a meeting near your home is significantly easier for a guy such as yourself -v- a guy that lives on the Cape -v- a guy that lives on an Island -v- a guy that lives in another state.

So get off your high horse and stop screaming at people for not being involved and find a way to encourage people to go. If you want to yell at me, yell at me for spending more time at Mass fisheries meetings (my home state) than those of the state I currently reside in, Rhode Freakin Island.

You and I need to have a nice little chat when we see each other...

Sincerly, the elitist babbling webmaster ...

John

And while we are at this "discussion", where is the F2F info I've been asking for for over a month.... Mr F2F representative...

two 28's is insane. if i had a dollar for every "of size" bass that i see the weekend warriors take...
it really does not make any sense. during the summer there is not one day when i cannot find some ham'n egger stretching a bass.

yes, it is insane to keep two 28 inches stripers, but we dont have to follow the striper regulation. we can keep one or none if we want it.
on the other hands, the saltwater fishing newbies might follow the regulation and keep two fishes at 28 inches. and we can't prevent that everywhere, right? alternatively, we can try to encourage people to keep one fish or release it. i would rather to keep one, but it's tempting to keep two, because i can't feed my family two fishes and it would make them fat in one summer.

Guys 2 at 28" may be insane, but look at what some other states are doing. New Jersey for instance. I heard on another board that they can take 2, and a bonus pin or tag fish. Patrick is it ot true that Mass could of went to 2 fish years ago? If thats the case, they did'nt till now, and other states are rapinthe resource. FWIW I know that when I am fishing, I will do the right thing. People who are fishing with me will be encouraged to do the same.

Toodles

i don't know if anyone saw that documentary on the japanese guy
who figured out how to raise tuna in a land locked ocean ponds on TV ......but it would seem like the striper could have the same process employed since they also adapt to freshwater well. It would seem like all hatcheries are good buisness and provide more jobs and help to protect resources. Giant halibut from alaska have 2 million eggs each in them so why are these eggs not flown to hatcheries on the east coast is my thinking process
here. Science can't just be about determining population and more and more strict regulations. More out of the box thinking is
required to change things for the better. Fishing technology cant only just be about new lure, reel or rod designs.:rolleyes:
theres no problems -> only solutions , is a better way to THINK.

as of may 15th connecticut with go to 2 bass at 28 inches. it's a crying shame i was ok with 1 @ 24 and 1 over 41.

Raven most of the store bought striper is hatchery raised.

John,

I'll try to address the substance of your message and correct the outright false information.

===========================================

But now we have you, the defender of the common man (What the Hell is the "Common Man" anyway??)

It was a compliment. It used to be that an average Joe could post a report on S-B and not get grief for it.


YOU may be taking these fish from the best managed herring run in the world but you can't tell me that taking fish that have yet to spawn is no different than taking fish that are dropping down.

John, let's put a few things in perspective by quantifying what's really going on here.

It may surprise you to learn that...

- The run is only available 35 hours a week for the taking of herring.
- There are 168 hours in a week.
- This means that the run is only being pressured for about 20% of the week.
- To use your analogy, this leaves all of the mommy herring to reproduce 80% of the time.
- It would be nice if I could pick and choose which individual herring in the take area had already spawned but I can't. If you know of a way to do so then please tell us how.


Also, the 20% of the pressure that is on these fish is confined solely to a very small area that is watched by as many as three wardens. I went there this past Sunday and I came back with nothing. Why? Because there was only one hour left to take herring and there were too many others there in line taking too long to get them. This is not to say that run was being over pressured at all. In fact, a warden there told me that the river was packed with herring for a straight 6 miles (that's not a typo) but that the downstream herring were waiting for the sun to pop out before continuing upstream. Indeed, I checked 2 miles downstream and they were very plentiful there but you can't take them in that area.


This is what I call sound and REASONABLE management. But you know what? If you really think that the town of Middleboro shouldn't allow folks to take arguably pre-spawning herring, no matter how few, then I suggest that you write to them and express your concerns. That's what I would do if I felt the way you do. Why? Because, that way the right people would be involved and not just a bunch of folks whining in a vacuum.

Five bucks says you don't even pick up the phone.

There are a lot of ideas that are discussed here John and I dare say some of them are pretty darn good - but what good are good ideas if they never leave this forum.


The "author of this thread" did not attend this meeting as the wife of "the author of this thread", living in another state I might add, had to go home to watch the son of the "author of this thread" so the wife of the "author of this thread" could go to class. Now perhaps I could have left work even earlier, drive the 65 miles from work thru Boston and Providence, picked up my son, drive the 55 miles back to the club and drive back home before his 7:30 bedtime. All for a fisheries meeting in another state. Flaherty - get your head out of your butt and know what you are talking about please.


John, my original post was not aimed at singling you out and that is why I said "the author". It was aimed at everyone that didn't attend the hearing and had a knee-jerk reaction to the outcome.

April was a very lousy month for me...

- My Dad had not one but two heart attacks {he's stable now}
- My wife was rushed away in an ambulance last Monday morning and she had her gall bladder removed this past Friday
{she is still recovering and I've been taking care of her and our 10 month old since}
- A close friend had a miscarriage. {she's coping}

...I'm not trying to bore anyone here with my own troubles. But for the record, had any of these tragedies occurred on or near April 17th (the hearing date), then I too would have missed the meeting.

My point here though is that if I did miss the meeting, then I certainly wouldn't have initiated a doom and gloom post. Why? Because I wouldn't have all the facts.

John, I know that you do occasionally make it to a Mass hearing and that's great, but you did miss this one and it didn't stop you from criticizing those who actually were involved in the process. If somehow it hurts your feelings for me to point that out then I don't know what to say. I only mentioned it to show the context of your position - and that went for anyone else that didn't to the hearing but felt obligated to speak out.


I'm glad you can live with it. I'm glad that in the 2 or so years since you've gotten into saltwater fishing and have become an expert on all things saltwater


John, you are confused. I don't know where you came up with my saltwater experience as only 2 years but for the record, My Dad was born and raised in South Boston and some of my earliest and fondest memories are of fishing with him and my uncle at some of their favorite spots. These would include fishing for flounder and crabs under the Summer Street bridge - back when there was an "under" under that bridge (patrick knows what I mean). We also fished for flounder out on Squantum back when you could. Now you have to wait for the Mayor's derby if you want access. We also fished for bluefish at Carson Beach back when they still called a sub a spucky in Southie because that's what I would eat for lunch. I think I went on my first party boat when I was about 7 or 8 with the Yankee Fleet. It was the first of MANY such trips. Finally, I had a 28 foot wooden Pacemaker Sportfisherman back in the early '90s that I moored at a Southie yacht club.

True, I do consider freshwater fishing to be my real passion but I assure you Sir that I'm no stranger to the salt.

Furthermore, I'm quick learner and I like to think I do my homework before taking a position. Given your gross inaccuracy of my experience, I suggest you do the same.


Mike - show us the way to this panacea of knowledge that you must posess. Us Doom & Gloom Elitists need a leader such as yourself. We're obviously would rather babble about it.


Well, you could start with some of the published work from the Massachusetts Division of Marine Fisheries. I have emailed the links before but I'll post them here again since you're now so interested. You will learn more from documents like these than any thread on this or any other website. When you are done with these, then I can point you to some peer-reviewed scientific journals that I also find helpful. Then if you are really really nice to me, I can point you to a few folks that I trust at NMFS, NEFMC, RFA, and the advisory panel for ASMFC. But don't forget, if you really want to have an impact on the process that determines Mass regs, it's like Patrick said, "TOO LATE YOU FOOL"!

Enjoy reading these documents and take your time. You have three more years before the regs will be reconsidered. Don't worry though, I will be happy to assist you if you still need help then as well...

http://www.state.ma.us/dfwele/dmf/MarineFisheriesNotices/ASMFCComment102402.pdf
http://www.state.ma.us/dfwele/dmf/MarineFisheriesNotices/MPAPolicies102302.pdf
http://www.state.ma.us/dfwele/dmf/MarineFisheriesNotices/StellwagenComments102302.pdf


Did the best science change in 4 months? Did the best science state that if the commercial allocation was increased by a third and the recreation believed "take" was increased by nearly a third, it would have no impact on the fishery? Did best available science, which as of a few months ago intimated that there might be a closed season if we took nearly a third more fish - change?


John, again I think you are confused. First of all the recreational take isn't being raised by nearly a third. It is being increased by 21% which isn't even a fourth. I know that a fourth sounds bigger than a third but as denominators get bigger it really means that the each slice of the pie is getting smaller. You're just going to have to trust me on this one because I don't have time to explain 4th grade math right now.

That said, I assume that you are referring to the science used during the discussion at the Amendment 6 hearing back in Dedham. The concern there about a closed season was centered around a fishery management plan at anything less than F .30. If we went to say F.25, which is what CCA advocated, then there was a real possibility that there could be a closed season. As Mr. Diodati said (when Patrick pushed him) at F .25 "someone's going to have to cut catch". However, as it turned out, ASMFC came back with a fisheries management plan at F .30 {thank god}. So the answer to your question is - NO. The best available science didn't change at all in 4 months and given the increases, we are still fishing at or less than F .30 - because we are mandated to. This is why I would trust this science rather than a bunch of well meaning but uninformed/misinformed/uninvolved folks on this and all the other websites out there.


Going to a meeting in Danvers near where you work or to a meeting near your home is significantly easier for a guy such as yourself


John, yet again you are demonstrably very confused. You really do need to do a little more research before making bogus assertions like these. I work in Needham and sometimes Taunton. Both are no where near Danvers. Are you sure you are from Mass? Anyway, I attend meetings wherever they are, Buzzards Bay, NH, Braintree, wherever.

Here's a little story for you...

As stated, I do work in Needham and the Amendment 6 hearing was in Dedham which is only 4 exits away from me. This is a quick ride right after work right? NOPE! I got a message from Patrick at 4:30 telling me that his ride fell through and he asked me if I could give him a ride to the hearing. Guess where Patrick lives - HULL! John, you do know where hull is right? That's right, I had to fight rush hour traffic from Needham to Hull to bring my club's president to the most important meeting of the year that started in 2 1/2 hours. Do you know what route 3A looks like at 5:30? I'm not complaining here and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I'm just saying that distance isn't an issue for me when it comes to these all important hearings.



Mike it is a "dam shame" that more people are not involved or show up to meetings of follow the newsletters and brochures but I also think I smell a case of meeting elitism on your part.


Fair enough. I'll try to tone it down in the future. {this is called accepting well deserved constructive criticism}

I hope that I have "participated here in a constructive manner" and helped to change some attitudes - but somehow I doubt it.

I'm going Cod fishing this weekend and I would ask you all to wish me luck so I could post a sweet report.

However, if the many folks here think that 2 fish at 28'' is "insane" or "dumb" then I think they would have a real problem if I posted a report here of limiting out with 10 fish at 23+'' (with any luck).

OH THE HORROR!!!!

Mike Flaherty
Signing Off

P.S. John, I sent you everything I had on F2F about 3 weeks ago. It is the same information that appeared in last month's MSBA newsletter on the front page. You may remember that this is the information that I asked you not to mention anything about it until further notice. Thank you for your interest and your patience. I will keep you informed when we are ready to make an announcement to the general public.

O........Brother!!

Quick on the draw, aren't we all?

I love a good debate, but boy, this one reeks as bad as the Oil Spill in Fairhaven.

I just wonder what round this fight is in...

Jugstah - it's in the third round. And like most arguements - somoewhere in the middle lies the truth but in the meantime, Mike has a major HAIR across his ass.

Mike - The average Joe does post here, as does the sub human Joe, the elitist Joe, the Purist Joe, the "Why Can't We all Get Along Joe" and the "I don't give a damn" Joe. We don't limit it to just the "Common Man".

Well, the "elitist" in me sees a herring swimming up I leave it alone, dropping back, I take it. Yes Middleboro is a town run and its very well run. Would I call a Middleboro run? No - I'm dealing with major issues on a run down the street from me that has a tiny fraction of what it did last year...

Your post said the author - that was directed entirely at me, anything other than that is pure BS so don't try to pull any....

I'm sincerely hoping that your dad gets better. I lost my father this past year and I'm sad that my son will never get to know him. Your boy needs to spend time with his gradfather if at all possible! Hope he does well!

Mike - I don't give a rats arse whether you go to a meeting or not, OK - not true, I highly recommend those that don't go should. Anf I appluad you for going but you CANNOT put a blanket assesment that all those that did not make it can't bitch about it and you can't have a hjolier than thou for those that did. I used to feel the same way as you do now until situations I was in showed otherwise - don't do it, it's not cool. All the energy you've wasted on this post could have been done assembling people via e-mail to get their commitments BEFORE the meeting instead of bithchingabout it AFTER

I apologize - you are experienced AND an expert :D

When I get a chance I will read this stuff - F2F info? I'm looking for the a lot of the supporting stuff, not the tiny bit of Secret Squirel Drivel...

Sheet - I lost in all my elitist, purist thinking where the hell I was... Oh well will get back to this crap.

I don't know if I want to have a home brew with you, shake your hand, argus, or kick you in the nuts right now (how's that for elitist talk)...

reminds me of the bar cheers and their rivalry with the other bar down the street....

have alot of beers and smile a bunch.

OK - where were we?

Oh - fisheries science - I feel so relieved that due to my 4th grade math skills :p that the swing from .25 to .30 will keep the season open LONGER if entirely while still taking that much more fish out of the fishery - I feel very relieved. Thanks man. Can I be your friend?

Danvers - what was I thinking, I thought you had to go to Danvers to work, you work even closer to most of these meetings that I thought, shucks darn. You singled me out here, I think your partially full of crap here. OK - getting too sarcastic again. I appluad you for picking up Patrick when he was in a jam when his car broke. Can I be your friend too. Yes, I remember that day when we were all at that meeting. I remember other people coming from all over creation too. Damn, if I had the time that night, I might have gone over to mom's for dinner (right down the street if I could find it, not being from mass and all).

The Horror - my ass!

OK - now that we've both acted like petty kids in a schoolyard squabble, do you want to do something constructive with this or should we both continue to make asses of ourselves? Personally, I'm done nickle and diming this thread and I highly suggest you do the same. If you want to use this forum for constructive works that's fine, it might reach a person or two more than yours (not knocking yours). If and when your forum gets a little larger - and I hope it does - look back on this thread and this time and see how easy it is - and see if you had time to see the bus before it rolls ya.

If you want to continue to nit pick, nickle & dime, throw your meeting attending self righteous arse weight around, I suggest you do it elsewhere. If you had expended half the energy networking people that you've shot off here in the last 2 days building a consensus and getting people to show up, you would have seen a greater turnout. And had less to bitch about. But if you choose to get off your high horse, come across as the "common man" - whatever your definition is - that you defend, maybe you'll see better fruits of your effort.

Do not come over here to attack me, and others, when you don't know JACK about what is going on here. Patricks post was very short and true and said what needed to be said without attacking people - you hopped on board and attacked me & Slip an others. If you are going to post something here to inspire the common man, do so in a constructive manner BEFORE the events - don't tell me that I have no right to squawk now - especially when you have not walked in my shoes.

Now (and I admit I have a hair across my arse too for the past few days), are we going to approach this stuff a little more reasonably next time? Or are you going to drivel like you did which means that I need to drivel the way I did and WE BOTH make arses out of ourselves? Capiche? End this drivel which makes people sick for the WRONG reasons?

hey, flatts, good luck cod fishing huh

If you care about these and other similar issues, you should be attending the public hearings.

I'm going to BeatchSlap the next person that says that I am not trying to be part of the process and am not doing my part regarding fisheries crap.... Don't start this crap again...

With that all said, I sincerley encourage people to get to Hyannis tonight to make the Public Info meeting tonight... I seriously doubt I can make it...

I have seen your threads and applaud your efforts.

It amazes me when there are 170 views of a thread and only one or two replys about go/nogo, yea/nay.

I'm going (Hyannis),,,,along with a few other MSBA members.

I think our Pres. will have a statement to present.

Anyone who can make it, should go.

I kept in touch with a bunch of charter guys this year. They have been actively discouraging their customers from keeping two fish each and have been quite successful with it. They talk with the customers on the way out and gauge the amount of people on board, etc to determine how much fish needs to be kept.

They aren't really bothered by shorts (I'll let you figure that one out) and are more into not using the two fish limit.

Question:

I know it is wrong to keep a 27" but why (other than the regs) is it worse to keep the 27" and not a 40+" ?