Just got this email....just in case anyone is interested in making their voice heard.


Public Hearing: Nov. 29, 6:00 PM. in Danvers & Nov. 30, 6:00 PM in Plymouth

The MA Div. of Marine Fisheries (DMF) will be holding public hearings on two important conservation measures that will have an immediate impact on saving our stripers. You can help stop the wasteful killing of stripers by voicing your support for these two proposals. The DMF is doing something right. Let's let them know we have their back on this

1) The DMF is proposing to require both recreational and commercial fishermen fishing for or in possession of striped bass to use circle hooks when fishing with whole or cut natural bait. The reasoning is that traditional "J" hooks are often swallowed by striped bass causing internal damage and increasing discard mortality. Circle hooks have demonstrated the ability to hook the fish in the mouth and thereby decrease mortality rates.

2) The second proposal is to prohibit the use of "yo-yo" rigs. "Yo-yo" rigs and other similar gear that use natural baits rigged with embedded weights not attached to the terminal tackle increase discard mortality when striped bass swallow the bait and the associated weight. DMF is proposing to prohibit the use of this gear by both recreational and commercial fishermen.
MA Stripers Forever endorses both proposals. The outcome will be greatly influenced by input from the public and the DMF is looking for our support. You can be certain that all the recreational fish hogs and the "commercial" SB fishermen will be out in force to oppose both proposals. This is our chance to support and not fight the DMF!

The first hearing will be Nov. 29 at 6:00 PM. at the CoCoKey Hotel and Water Resort, 50 Ferncroft Road in Danvers.

The second will be Nov. 30 at 6:00 PM at the Radisson Hotel Plymouth Harbor at 180 Water St. in Plymouth.

Written comments will be accepted until Dec. 2. E-mail to marine.fisheries@state.ma.us or jared.silva@state.ma.us, or mail to 251 Causeway St., Suite 400, Boston, MA 02114.

Interesting.

I see a lot of people would

A) Freak if that went into play ('specially YoYo)

B) Say eff 'em and continue to do it anyway.

I think I am OK with this though

The only concern i have is with using circles for eels. Even if they pass it i agree with John R, many will say effem and keep using the hooks they want. With the general lack of enforcement of all the fishing laws in this state i think it is m re symbolic than anything else. Ive been fishing the salt in MA for 15 years now and once had a green cop watch me land and release a striper, all he said was "nice fish" as i released it.

Interesting.

I see a lot of people would

A) Freak if that went into play ('specially YoYo)

B) Say eff 'em and continue to do it anyway.

I think I am OK with this though

If someone puts in a little effort they can make sure that the weight is attached to their terminal tackle thereby making sure a lost fish doesn't end up with a belly full of led. As with anything, enforcement would be the issue.

The only concern i have is with using circles for eels. Even if they pass it i agree with John R, many will say effem and keep using the hooks they want. With the general lack of enforcement of all the fishing laws in this state i think it is m re symbolic than anything else. Ive been fishing the salt in MA for 15 years now and once had a green cop watch me land and release a striper, all he said was "nice fish" as i released it.

I've used circles with eels and have never had a problem with missed hits etc....I think I'm in the minority though.

I use circles a lot with eels also, but there are times where i want a "J" hook, and dont think a law restricting them will help. 1 @ 36", will help more than anything else. I sent an email explaining my point of view.

I have no issue with the Yo Yo thing. As stated already , just attach it to the line if you must Yo Yo.

The J hooks for eels will hurt IMO. I can see Circle Hooks for chunks or Clams , etc but for something like an eel that is actively fished like a lure , there should be an allowance of J hooks. Thet also need to consider rigged eels. Is that a lure or a bait?? I say its a lure.

Agree with the Yo-yo stuff, but it looks like I'll be "fishing for Bluefish" when I'm tossing eels at the canal.

This is such a stupid thing they are trying to do. It will make no material difference in the striper stocks. 1@36" is what will make a difference. We proved it in the 80s and it would prove out now.

Just finished reading On the Run for the second time. You want to see what the problem is? Look at Oregon Inlet in the winter. Charter takes 4 guys out in the morning and another 4 in the afternoon. They kill 16 20 to 30# fish EVERYDAY on each and every charter boat. We're not even talking about the recs. They probably kill 1/2 million breeder fish every winter. And some nitwit in Mass is worried about circle hooks.:fury:

This is such a stupid thing they are trying to do. It will make no material difference in the striper stocks. 1@36" is what will make a difference. We proved it in the 80s and it would prove out now.

Just finished reading On the Run for the second time. You want to see what the problem is? Look at Oregon Inlet in the winter. Charter takes 4 guys out in the morning and another 4 in the afternoon. They kill 16 20 to 30# fish EVERYDAY on each and every charter boat. We're not even talking about the recs. They probably kill 1/2 million breeder fish every winter. And some nitwit in Mass is worried about circle hooks.:fury:

Or why not implement the aforementioned proposals ALONG with 1@36".Maybe suggest this to your representative/senator instead of calling someone who has two very good ideas about helping to improve striper mortality rates a nitwit.

The only concern i have is with using circles for eels. Even if they pass it i agree with John R, many will say effem and keep using the hooks they want. With the general lack of enforcement of all the fishing laws in this state i think it is m re symbolic than anything else. Ive been fishing the salt in MA for 15 years now and once had a green cop watch me land and release a striper, all he said was "nice fish" as i released it.

I use Circles almost exclusively. When I don't it is because it is dark and I tie on the wrong hook :smash:

I've used circles with eels and have never had a problem with missed hits etc....I think I'm in the minority though.

Me too.

This is such a stupid thing they are trying to do. It will make no material difference in the striper stocks. 1@36" is what will make a difference. We proved it in the 80s and it would prove out now.


Yeh. 1 @ 36 and 50% reduction in commercial take would do far more.

instead of calling someone who has two very good ideas about helping to improve striper mortality rates a nitwit.[/QUOTE]

..and pray tell who is the someone I called a nitwit, DMF?? If they think this is the solution to the striper mortality problem they are not in touch with what's really going on with the fishery.

Second point: How the hell do you see either rule as being enforceable? The only people that would adhere to either rule are the ones who practice C&R, don't wantonly kill indescriminently and are not the problem. You think the guys who were out on Brenton Reef during the commercial season in RI, Yo-yoing their brains out and killing 50s like they were blue gill, are going to say: "Well, OK it's 2 in the morning and I'm 2 miles off shore and it's pitch black, I better not yo-yo because it's against the law"? Of course not. It would be the same in Mass.

You know what the real answer is? Make the damn fish a game fish. Stop all commercial fishing up and down the coast from NC to MA and make it 1@36" for the recs. Then you would see results.

You know what the real answer is? Make the damn fish a game fish. Stop all commercial fishing up and down the coast from NC to MA and make it 1@36" for the recs. Then you would see results.

I like this idea the best. :uhuh:

I said it before and I'll say it again... this proposal is like putting a band-aid on a severed limb.

I said it before and I'll say it again... this proposal is like putting a band-aid on a severed limb.

Well, at least I'm not the only one who thinks it doesn't make sense.

instead of calling someone who has two very good ideas about helping to improve striper mortality rates a nitwit.

..and pray tell who is the someone I called a nitwit, DMF?? If they think this is the solution to the striper mortality problem they are not in touch with what's really going on with the fishery.

Second point: How the hell do you see either rule as being enforceable? The only people that would adhere to either rule are the ones who practice C&R, don't wantonly kill indescriminently and are not the problem. You think the guys who were out on Brenton Reef during the commercial season in RI, Yo-yoing their brains out and killing 50s like they were blue gill, are going to say: "Well, OK it's 2 in the morning and I'm 2 miles off shore and it's pitch black, I better not yo-yo because it's against the law"? Of course not. It would be the same in Mass.

You know what the real answer is? Make the damn fish a game fish. Stop all commercial fishing up and down the coast from NC to MA and make it 1@36" for the recs. Then you would see results.[/QUOTE]

Enforceable my a$$ What ever happened to SPORTMANSHIP, does every fisherman need a personal EPO to make sure he obeys the laws????????????????

I could live with using circles for my eel fishing. Probably just alter them a bit.

I do endorse the yoyo ban. This method is just so ethicly and morally wrong its hard to believe any responsible fisherman would use it.

DZ

You know what the real answer is? Make the damn fish a game fish. Stop all commercial fishing up and down the coast from NC to MA and make it 1@36" for the recs. Then you would see results.

I like this idea the best. :uhuh:

Game fish won't do as much. best impact is reduce overall pressure not just pressure from one group.

Pogies Forever!

I could live with using circles for my eel fishing. Probably just alter them a bit.

I do endorse the yoyo ban. This method is just so ethicly and morally wrong its hard to believe any responsible fisherman would use it.

DZ

Morals and ethics DZ? I would guess it is just perspective.Some don't like people fishing at all. Others think they should dictate the methods people use to catch fish.

I'll go with piemma on this one.He's hit it right on the head. Gamefish and one fish 36 in.All the rest is just window dressing and a waste of time as there is no ;onger any enforsement with budget cuts an all.With all the time I spend fishing from NY to Me I've never seen anyone or run into any type of enforsement people. Sensus takers 10 yrs ago only on the Vineyard and Block.

Gamefish would be the best policy IMO, but, I'm glad they are doing something.Even if is just a band aid, it's a step in the right direction. I wouldn't mind seeing 1@32", I like to eat the smallest legal fish I can, the rest goes back. There's a lot of mercury in big fish, never mind what they picked up if they went through the east river at all :yak5:

Circle hooks, J Hooks, square hooks, Z hooks. Its fishing. Your still still driving a hook through a fish's face. Some just arent going to make it.

Good luck trying to get the RI Reef fleet to stop Yo Yoing.

fisherman..self policing:rotf2:

comm. can't fish,but rec's can...lissen to yourself..do as I say but not as I do.:rotf2:

call your rep's who's pockets are full of pay off's and ask for more rules that'll drain their pocket's:, stop comm. fishing
:rotf2:


game fish...peta will get ahold of this and run with it...we got you now..game fish//take nothing home , look at the new rule thats in fine print that'll come later on..be carefull.

These "united states" are so corrupt from bottom to top nothing will ever change...when the fish are gone they'll just say..We don't what happened..we tried our best...//all for a fist full of dollars//.

Good luck trying to get the RI Reef fleet to stop Yo Yoing.[/QUOTE]


That's what I'm saying. 50% of that group, maybe more. I watched 2 comms yo-yo in front of one of the lighthouses in the Upper Bay and absolutely CRUSH fish on every drift. Not that I have a problem with it. If you are going to sell fish then you gotta kill fish.

Just as long as the Striper is not exclusively a game fish, banning any and all methods of taking them will not make one damn bit of difference in the populations demise.

fisherman..self policing:rotf2:

comm. can't fish,but rec's can...lissen to yourself..do as I say but not as I do.:rotf2:

call your rep's who's pockets are full of pay off's and ask for more rules that'll drain their pocket's:, stop comm. fishing
:rotf2:


game fish...peta will get ahold of this and run with it...we got you now..game fish//take nothing home , look at the new rule thats in fine print that'll come later on..be carefull.

These "united states" are so corrupt from bottom to top nothing will ever change...when the fish are gone they'll just say..We don't what happened..we tried our best...//all for a fist full of dollars//.

No totally disagreeing but I will sight one specific instance where it did make a difference. Before the Redfish was declared a game fish they we almost wiped out. Now that they have gamefish status, there is a thriving fishery.

Good luck trying to get the RI Reef fleet to stop Yo Yoing.


That's what I'm saying. 50% of that group, maybe more. I watched 2 comms yo-yo in front of one of the lighthouses in the Upper Bay and absolutely CRUSH fish on every drift. Not that I have a problem with it. If you are going to sell fish then you gotta kill fish.

Just as long as the Striper is not exclusively a game fish, banning any and all methods of taking them will not make one damn bit of difference in the populations demise.[/QUOTE]

Yup, Ive gone out with a couple of those guys and then I understood why all the comm guys yoyo. The method consistantly puts big fish in the boat. And its more like 90%. And when your paying your bills on fish, you gotta do what you gotta do. I dont have an issue with it, to each his own. And banning it I doubt will effect the stocks.

1 @ 36 and be done with it.

Yup, Ive gone out with a couple of those guys and then I understood why all the comm guys yoyo. The method consistantly puts big fish in the boat. And its more like 90%. And when your paying your bills on fish, you gotta do what you gotta do. I dont have an issue with it, to each his own. And banning it I doubt will effect the stocks.

1 @ 36 and be done with it.[/QUOTE]

Amen brother, amen

..........read Zack Harvey's Editor's Log in The Fisherman N.E.Edition issue numbers 44 & 45(Nov 3 2011 & Nov 11 2011).....Parts 1 & 2 on circles & yo yos..................... could gonna open a Pandora's box of regs that Pew people & animal rights will have a field day,,,,,,,,groups of this type just love to see such fragmentation in any group(i.e.fisherman both rec & comm) that utilizes natural resources.............freeze the commercial harvest of SB(been frozen for years)------reduce rec & charter/comm to 1 fish.......get the mackerel, squid, and menhaden numbers up.......clean up the coastal watersheds........the group up north in Maine wants to grab the whole SB resource for themselves,,,,,,,and little do they know.....the anti -fisherman groups are right behind them and will devour them..........."Enjoy what you have"----as ALL SB users --will be in a SB fishing Lotto........drawing for dates to access the fish in the MPA areas.....using submerged tv cameras........and don't forget famed Marine Scientist Jock Costeau.........distains any form of recreational fishing--especially catch & release-as torture to the fish.............maybe win the battle.................loose the war...ALL our days are numbered...........................peace

LOL same dumb retorick that led to the moratoriums in the 80's. better to do nothing than do anything to save the fishing for the future. Just cause someone else is gonna shut it all down. amazing the red fish and sea trout down south are doing good and amazing how the stripers rebounded in the past. But oooooh lets not do anything cause we're gonna loose it all to the antis.Amazing the decline in numbers of stripers in Maine since the mid 90's.I wonder what happened back then. Oh that's right commercial striper fishing increased LOL.
But your right lets just do nothing like before the government will step in again . Only this time we're at the 2nd strike mark.3rd an we're out.
As far as Stripers Forever goes they kinda sound like the old Stripers Unlimited that Bob Pond founded. Both were and are coastwide organizations working for keeping the fish we all love to chase in the coastal waters an not in a net or floating dead.

retroburn-ing of stocks by recs........and by the way, Bob Pond became a good friend ---we shared -side by side--booth space at the Worchester Sports show for 15 years(he was a giving soul that would share his fantastic tuna salad sandwiches with me-as the show pizza was terrible and not healthy.....sandwiches prepared by the one Ms. Boyd---I have boxed lures he presented to me-signed and dated)....we agreed then & I do know ...that striped bass is a wonderful resource--a multiple use resource......to be utilized in a responsible way..........and...funny..very funny how the rec & charter group:uhuh: is the largest group that ends up with the most dead fish in their nets......:smash:

Thet also need to consider rigged eels. Is that a lure or a bait??

It's fished like a lure. Ergo, lure. :).

It's fished like a lure. Ergo, lure. :).

I agree but a live eel is also fished like a lure and it seems that is targeted for circle hooks...maybe..

With eels we may have more of a problem with the endangered species petition.

My problem with yoyo rigs is their continued potential to kill when not attached to a hook. If a yoyo pogy falls off they could still be ingested by other fish, birds, etc, and be fatal. No other R&R method I can think of has that same level of "potential to kill when not being used" - hence why I see this method as unethical.

DZ

I mostly fish Maine and starting Jan. 1 2012 circle hooks for bait fishing is the law. I'll abide by it because it helps cut down on fish mortality (and it's the law) but, and this is a big one for me,...I'm gonna really miss setting the hook. I've been setting the hook for over 40 years, it's now a reflex. And it's a great feeling.By-the-way I agree with all the guys saying one at 36" and cut commercial in half.

I've never seen a yo-yo rig in action. Is it mostly a south of the canal deal?

I CAN THINK OF OHHHHHH.........10-20 OTHER OPTIONS TO HELP BASS MORTALITY...

CHANGING THE LITTLE PIECE OF METAL AT THE END OF THE LINE
ISN'T ONE OF THEM !!!!!!!!!

FIX THE BAIT>STOP TRAWLERS BY CATCH>DECREASE THE TAKE LIMIT> IT GOES ON AND ON.

FRAKING IDOTS.....

sorry for the caps, but thats how I feel about it.


What Piemma said !!!!!!!!!!
1 @ 36 and be done with it

It all comes down to them defining what constitutes "whole and Cut" bait.

Mass Wildlife defines American Eel as a Baitfish.

a) Definitions:

Bait fish means only live or dead fish of the following species. A person shall not use as bait any fish, alive or dead, including parts thereof, except those fish listed in 321 CMR 4.01(8)(a)1. through 15:
1. American eel (Anguilla rostrata)
2. White sucker (Catostomus commersoni)
3. Creek chubsucker (Erimyzon oblongus)
4. Banded killifish (Fundulus diaphanus)
5. Mummichog (Fundulus heteroclitus)
6. Pumpkinseed (Lepomis gibbosus)
7. Golden shiner (Notemigonus crysoleucas)
8. Emerald shiner (Notropis atherinoides)
9. Spottail shiner (Notropis hudsonius)
10. Rainbow smelt (Osmerus mordax), only as provided in 321 CMR 4.01, Table 1.
11. Yellow perch (Perca flavescens)
12. Fallfish (Semotilus corporalis)
13. Bluntnose minnow (Pimephales notatus)
14. Fathead minnow (Pimephales promelas)
15. Herring (Clupea spp.) may be used as bait in the Connecticut River, Merrimack River, and coastal rivers and streams, only as provided in 321 CMR 4.01: Table 1 and 322 CMR, but may not be possessed or used as bait in other rivers and streams, or in lakes, ponds, or reservoirs.

Also doesn't matter what "Technique" you use to retrieve it. I've twitched herring back to me like a lure when I retrieve it....doesn't make it a lure

Would an octopus style hook be considered a circle hook?

For every yoyo fatality thare are hundreds, perhaps thousands of light tackle release deaths. Unethical is-the actual methodology of "catch & release"..that kills striped bass with light tackle///i.e. fly rod, spinning, and coventional....beat and wear down to fish beyond recovery......then the smiling release and the C & R dude exclaims-"Live fish live".....with a high percentage of the stripers become crab food...............The DEP should seriously look at mininum gear size--i.e. rods.....line & leader stength--for all C & R fishing............a regulation enforced..........to increase the percentage of stripers to live-after being played to death on light gear. Such a minimum gear size would save untolded striped bass.....get real:smash:

Such a minimum gear size would save untolded striped bass.....get real:smash:
Anything to back this up?

There is definitely some responsibility on the fisherman for using appropriately sized gear, but it's also not like every person up and down the beach or on boats are using freshwater gear to catch stripers.

LOL like all those catch and release fish the netters throw back. more in a day than rod n reel coastwide in a year. Oh thats right those pics posted last fall were all fake and made up just to make the poor commecials look bad.LOL Same old bull to just do nothing then moan an groan about the fishing.

Here we goooooooooooo..............

What do you mean here we goo. It never stopped. some of us practice what we preach and stick to our guns.If it wasn't for that there wouldn't be any stripers around now.gamefish status and one fish 36 in.

...no scientific data to support the amount of yoyo fatalities--regulation to prohibit use of is not substanciated(reg should not be even introduced based on the lack of research in this area)-introduced on hearsay......do a study before even considering enacting:fishin:

......and there is plenty of data on catch & release by rod & reel--with a healthy percentaage killed-time for scientific study to evaluate the light tackle as an important negative multican of death to C&R..:love

........multiple use is the only fair way to utilize the striped bass resource.....food & recreation..........if comm & recs do not managed to SB resource to provide their respective utilization....they have nothing-both groups are not stupid.....:confused:.

.........the floaters now are being applied to other commercial fisherman bag down in the mid-atlantic--and/or off loaded to other boats being counted towards the cap..............however I've avicated that striped bass commercial fish be caught by rod & reel as the primary tool........coastwide.....LOL to ya all :biglaugh::love::buds:

I'd tather see rod n reel as that is a heck of a lot more selective than nets are.I worked on a gill netter as a kid. If it was in the net is was dead.What we couldn't keep we stuck and through over the side. Not many swam away.But I'd still rather see gamefish with one fish limit. Size can be worked out.Plus everyone with a comercial ticket fishing for whatever should have to fill out a tax sheat every year. no matter how few fish they sell.I sell plugs,flies and rods and I pay my taxes.I pay my taxes they should have to pay theirs too. Ron

...no scientific data to support the amount of yoyo fatalities

Are you really trying to defend yoyo'ing?

........ANY fisheries regulation-as it relates to fish mortality- demands/needs a comprehensive scientific study before it shall be implemented........otherwise, a reglatory dictator can -without justification-enact a regulation without due proceess....this will start a a bad administrative process----that will--beyond this issue--bite all fisherman in the butt....:err:

LOL lets see just how many years are they gonna study this problem this time? seems to be the same problem they've been studying since the 50's.Like before study forever so nothing gets done till it's way too late.Never yet saw a scientist in the surf or in a boat studying. Always at a computer.

LOL-gotta give the fisheries bean counters something to do LOL,,,,,,,,,,,next it will be single hook only on all artificial lures--so the catch & release boys(&girls) can release their percent of dead fish with cleaner mouths,,,not shreded by treble hook plugs(this does not apply to the small percentage of C&R anglers using single barbless)...the biological reference points in force by ASMFC will prevent a total collasp of the SB population----enough of this BS LOL,,,,,,,gotta go pack up my LL Bean boots to get resoled-for the 4th time.....yep ya northerners can make a mean boot.....:love:

They're made outside the country now.No more made in maine bean boots.

........ANY fisheries regulation-as it relates to fish mortality- demands/needs a comprehensive scientific study before it shall be implemented........otherwise, a reglatory dictator can -without justification-enact a regulation without due proceess....this will start a a bad administrative process----that will--beyond this issue--bite all fisherman in the butt....:err:

You are correct trapper - but I think the intent of this proposed reg is meant to enforce banning an unethical method of fishing. How could anyone use a bait that has a high potential to kill untargeted species such as other fish, marine birds, etc., when coming unattached from your line. Hard to come up with an appropriate analogy but if I knew that every time an eel came off my hook it would be fatal to anything that ate it - I would stop using eels.
If you can't get fishermen to voluntarily clean up their act you have to make a law. Unfortunatly society can't depend on the use of common sense.

DZ

.....circle YoYo-reminds me of ranch names out Montana/Utah way.....we can discuss a variety of topics....from weights inside baits...C & R mortality...seals wearing a face full trebles from pencils, swimmers, and bait rigs....breaking off lead jigs in fish mouths etc. etc...all important----all issues to be considered......now for some stuff of equal importance! Bean rubber bottom boots not manufactured in Maine WT% ! Here is one equal grounds---National Biscuit Company-A.K.A "Nabisco" an all American company--like apple pie & Chevrolet.......Fig Newtons are baked in Mexico(nothing against our friends from the south of USA).....I'm enjoying a stack of them...notice the net weight of the packages is shrinking(like most food stuffs)---and in tiny print Made In Mexico.....ahh! Circles Yo Yo's and imported LL Boots & Fig Newtons from Mexico. We certainly live in complex, forever changing world..........:uhuh:,,,,,good luck & good health to you all:buds:

......special hooks-limits on lead use-next in line is treble hooks banned-eels on endangered species list(better make ALL those rubba eels ya all use biodegradable/non toxic--as they are next in line by enviro do gooders....watch out for that Plover....oh the seals are cute........then-MPA's......many elementary schools have approved curicullum(sp?)-teaching against any form of fishing(the fish feels pain etc)-fishing overall is unethical---just wait 'til these kids get into the game of natural resource managers----fishing as we know today-with it.'s moderate freedom it still provides----will be a thing of the past...one surburban neighborhood's application of herbicides, fungicides, chemical fertilizer--no doubt--kills more SB than a bunch of C & R ers & Yo Yo.--it is nice to point fingers around......heading in the direction of a classic case of winning the battle and loosing the war........:hs:

God, you make me want to get a rope and start looking for a big tree.
:hang:

.....I'll try to upload pics of several oaks out back:jump1:

Too bad the american chestnut is gone, now that would be a tree to swing from,:)

.....circle YoYo-reminds me of ranch names out Montana/Utah way.....we can discuss a variety of topics....from weights inside baits...C & R mortality...seals wearing a face full trebles from pencils, swimmers, and bait rigs....breaking off lead jigs in fish mouths etc. etc...all important----all issues to be considered......now for some stuff of equal importance! Bean rubber bottom boots not manufactured in Maine WT% ! Here is one equal grounds---National Biscuit Company-A.K.A "Nabisco" an all American company--like apple pie & Chevrolet.......Fig Newtons are baked in Mexico(nothing against our friends from the south of USA).....I'm enjoying a stack of them...notice the net weight of the packages is shrinking(like most food stuffs)---and in tiny print Made In Mexico.....ahh! Circles Yo Yo's and imported LL Boots & Fig Newtons from Mexico. We certainly live in complex, forever changing world..........:uhuh:,,,,,good luck & good health to you all:buds:

You have me sooooooo confused. What the hell are you trying to say???
Everything is bad, nothing is bad, Fig Newtons are bad, Nabisco is Good, Chevy is bad, Yo-yoing is bad Yo-yoing is good. I don't understand any of your posts.

You have me sooooooo confused. What the hell are you trying to say???
Everything is bad, nothing is bad, Fig Newtons are bad, Nabisco is Good, Chevy is bad, Yo-yoing is bad Yo-yoing is good. I don't understand any of your posts.

Yes but...

....circle YoYo-reminds me of ranch names out Montana/Utah way

This does make a lot of sense. If you need further explanation head to the Mint Bar in Sheridan, Wyoming.

-spence

Just remember anything custom made here hurts the imports.Rod,flies,plugs,jigs,clothing-rain gear +shirts-and everything else.

REALITY CHECK...the following is public record.

DMF DID NOT INITIATE THIS RULEMAKING...Major citizen user groups with members (on this board) started both of these actions. DMF took "petitions" to the MA Marine Fisheries Commission and the Commission decided to ask the public for input.

According to a presentation by DMF's Dr. Mike Armstrong at the MSBA meeting last week....


The MV Striped Bass & Bluefish Committee "Petitioned" DMF to ban the fishing method known as "YOYO".

The Cape Cod Charter Boat Association "Petitioned" DMF to mandate circle hook use on all natural bait.


A few factoids from the Q&A at MSBA you might want to hear...

Q. Under the YoYo language would an egg sinker or weight stuffed inside a rigged eel be legal? A. If not attached to the line...then NOT LEGAL.

Q. would circle hooks be required when fishing with Sand Eels and Sea Worms? A. YES

Q. Would circle hooks be required when fishing live Bunker and Mackerel? A. Yes

Q. Would circle hooks be required on a high low bait rig? A. Yes

Q. Is an offset Circle a legal circle hook? A. NO

Q. Is and "Octopus" circle a legal circle? A. NO

Q. Is a circle hook required on the end of a Tube & Worm lure? A. NO

I mostly fish Maine and starting Jan. 1 2012 circle hooks for bait fishing is the law. I'll abide by it because it helps cut down on fish mortality (and it's the law) but, and this is a big one for me,...I'm gonna really miss setting the hook. I've been setting the hook for over 40 years, it's now a reflex. And it's a great feeling.By-the-way I agree with all the guys saying one at 36" and cut commercial in half.

I know, if you can't cross their eyes a little what fun is it...

Maybe if I let the fish swallow the Eel, and swims away just right....and I keep just the right pressure....the Eel will pull out of it's gut....the hook will rotate just right... Spare me.

Patrick's right about the Circle hook proposal - it did come from the Cape Cod Charter Boat Association. It was a reaction to the ridiculous # of dead short fish that were floating during the month long eel bite at P-town during the 2009 season.

I personally think circles are even more effective than J's (again, from my boat that doesn't count here) - but it is funny to see my Father fish circles - he's been using J's for so long, he can't possible help himself from setting the hook, no matter how hard he tries.
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I fished circles for tarpon in Florida and it was really difficult to get used to;"point the rod tip towards the fish and just reel".You literally can not set the hook with those things. I can see myself ignoring both of these ideas and taking my chances,circle high/low rigs? Tell me this is all a joke.

For a realistic idea that will have a positive impact on the fishery we need to reduce the catch to 1 at 36".Places like the canal where the recs have a sizable impact will be policed by the anglers themselves.

There are pleanty of charter boat captains who set no catch limits on their charters and allow a few extras for the sports,especially the nighttime variety. This also has to cease for the bass to have a chance to flourish.

.....striper Maniac & I were interjecting some "spin off stuff"..I will start a thread where it belongs--me bad--in The Tavern section(i.e. not made in USA ETC.)

........and so called "Petitions" sent to DMF--in the yoyo review-is based on several accounts of fish being damaged-not done in a scientific survey...only based on very limited data...if the trend is to have the general public manage our fisheries....not based on a scientific survey-based on all the elements of proper established and accepted scientific research method....WE all are in trouble......then we should abolish all marine scientists employed by the MA DMF....and let the general public create & remove fishery regulations....

even worse, is when state asemblies take on the duty of Wildlife & Fisheries managment.....

..show me the data that is inrefutable evidence in the proper quanities...

.....my real interest is not so much in defending any methods engaged in a fishery...........please show me---in documented detail the results of extensive research to justify the said changes desired... show me that data from the scientist & managers...not limited data and fueled by emotion or passions that distain fishing methods not used by a particular group

.....the process of entering "Petitions" are part of the process..........we should have faith in the established system

....is easy to pack a hearing with large numbers of people trained to say similar views-not necessarily based on fact....

we are at a dangerous cross roads of who or whom becomes the fishery managers

Note aside: Good news---there has a susbtancial sucess in grafting American Chestnut trees to establish growth---some day--we can use them again for whatever purpose...

In the recent past-I spent 6 years -as a member on the ASMFC SB advisory panel.....I have a bit of knowledge how the reglatory system operates....I was not reapointed by The Gov. of our lovely state---when I expressed my concerns for a reduce coastwide harvest of beloved menhaden...and introduced the concept of establishing a seperate user catogorie fof the SB resource.......for Charter/headboat Com.-------a utlization of the resource that removes vast poundage of fish(striped bass)--for bucks$$.

For accurate accountability, the charter/ headboat fleet should be a separate designation. See adjective one, could make the argument that they are more commercial fishing than the guys selling fish out of their personal boats.

Places like the canal where the recs have a sizable impact will be policed by the anglers themselves.


You mean by pissing and moaning online? :rotf2:

[QUOTE=Sea Dangles;

There are pleanty of charter boat captains who set no catch limits on their charters and allow a few extras for the sports,especially the nighttime variety. This also has to cease for the bass to have a chance to flourish.[/QUOTE]

Plenty Chris?

That's a bunch of HorseSh*t.
Like anything, there may be one or 2 scumbags out there, but the vast majority aren't about to risk their businesses and reputations to let a customer cheat.
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You would be surprised at how well known some of these Captains are that are willing to take these risks. But a few bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch Jay.Certainly the majority are stewards of the resource so their future is insured.

For accurate accountability, the charter/ headboat fleet should be a separate designation. See adjective one, could make the argument that they are more commercial fishing than the guys selling fish out of their personal boats.

What you are forgetting is the charter/headboat fleet is not "fishing". Their clients are fishing. No different than any other guy sitting on the shore or in his own or buddies boat. They just rent a ride and hire a guide.

Jon

You would be surprised at how well known some of these Captains are that are willing to take these risks. But a few bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch Jay.Certainly the majority are stewards of the resource so their future is insured.

Next people will tell you none of the charter guys keep stellwagon bass. :hihi:


For accurate accountability, the charter/ headboat fleet should be a separate designation. See adjective one, could make the argument that they are more commercial fishing than the guys selling fish out of their personal boats.

There was a thread about this not too long ago. I'm sure you could find it searching commercial and charter. Very telling.

What you are forgetting is the charter/headboat fleet is not "fishing". Their clients are fishing. No different than any other guy sitting on the shore or in his own or buddies boat. They just rent a ride and hire a guide.

Jon

The captain is engaged in an act of fishing commerce, we are talking semantics here. I work part time on a charter boat. The goal all the time is to get the maximum we can keep . After all that is what we are getting " paid " to do. If I am rec fishing it's never about the maximum to take home, I hardly ever keep fish. So do most of the people I know that fish a bit. A couple a year suffice.

My point is to have 3 designations for Bass pie.

1- True commercial.
2- Charter/ headboat fishing.
3- Recreational.

1 and 2 are always going after max take, for money.
3 is not.

[QUOTE=trapperpierre;901510....then we should abolish all marine scientists employed by the MA DMF....and let the general public create & remove fishery regulations....
.[/QUOTE]


:fury:Yes!!!
Best idea in your rant!

What GOOD has the marine scientists done? The recent codfish debacle comes to mind and all that so called science.

As for the Yoyo issue. While not scientific, it is hardly limited data, it is pretty factual....Sometimes common sense will be a better guide than exhaustive, expensive, time consuming and error prone science based extrapolations by state-hired Phd's who don't fish.

This was based on the commercial fleet who, off of Gay Head a few years ago, were pounding fish with this approach. Many fish were lost and ingested the lead and associated wire rigs internally. (we know this because many were recaptured with infected sores and wire/metal rigs poking thru their stomachs. Most were sold with the lead inside) When you see them doing it, and the amount of gear lost that you KNOW is now inside the fish...this becomes a no-brainer.
ENOUGH WITH THE BAD SCIENCE!!! You guys can't manage yourself out of a paper bag with that so called science you tout, Frankly, it is laughable. Try some common sense and save us all a lot of money as well as a few fish.

YoYo was an effective fishing method. But the REAL mortality is ALOT more than what is currently assumed. Further there is a risk of long term lead contamination to the flesh which is consumed by humans.
Is the state saying that fish that have lead in their digestive systems for long periods, placed there by fishermen, is a good thing for the public who consume them? Why is the DMF trying to poison the fish-buying public with lead? If they OK this method that is effectively what they are saying, that they like the idea of lead inside fish, knowing it will be consumed by the public. I can see potential legal nightmare for the state when someone gets lead poisoning.


I support this yo-yo ban.

Circle hooks are a positive step as well.

It will be tougher to catch a tog with a circle hook and a green-crab however.


The bottom line is fishermen especially NE fishermen resist change of any kind...good bad or otherwise. You have to jam it down their throat with them kicking and screaming or you can not do anything. Just do it...Man up!

The bottom line is fishermen especially NE fishermen resist change of any kind...good bad or otherwise. You have to jam it down their throat with them kicking and screaming or you can not do anything. Just do it...Man up!

Short memories too, the cod collapse has been mentioned every year for damn near 20 years now.

What you are forgetting is the charter/headboat fleet is not "fishing". Their clients are fishing. No different than any other guy sitting on the shore or in his own or buddies boat. They just rent a ride and hire a guide.

Jon
When you hire a charter, you don't need your own fishing license. So the government has already decided that charter boats are in a distinct category of their own. Same goes for when they are fishing for BFT, separate designation from recreation fishermen.

You see, charters are on the water for one reason... commercial intent. They exchange a service for money. Now, I'm not saying that there is anything at all wrong with that. However, the industry as a whole should be held accountable for the total amount of fish they take. Enough grouping charter/head boats and *true* recreational fishermen into the same regulatory category for striped bass.

If you want to nitpick semantics, why was the captain that caught the bluefin tuna in their trawler nets the one under all the scrutiny? He wasn't the one tending the nets, the guys out on the deck were.

The captain is engaged in an act of fishing commerce, we are talking semantics here. I work part time on a charter boat. The goal all the time is to get the maximum we can keep . After all that is what we are getting " paid " to do. If I am rec fishing it's never about the maximum to take home, I hardly ever keep fish. So do most of the people I know that fish a bit. A couple a year suffice.

My point is to have 3 designations for Bass pie.

1- True commercial.
2- Charter/ headboat fishing.
3- Recreational.

1 and 2 are always going after max take, for money.
3 is not.

The Captain will only kill as many fish as the charter wants to kill (up to the limit). Some folks don't kill any, some only kill one or two, some kill the max. Its just like guys fishing from private boats or from shore.

Not the guys we take out. Fill the box almost all the time.
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On my own boat, when we had a 23.75 inch cod, that the enviro said was "MORE LIKE 23!", as the boat owner I got a written warning for "POSSESSION OF COD".. "< 24 inches" (classic)..

In other words, the boat owner takes the wrap, they didn't ask who's fish it was, it just went on me. Same as it probably does on a commercial boat or charter. Back to Stripers..

There are plenty of private boat fisherman out there killing as many as they can, it's not something limited to a charter or commercial boat.

Actually, the worst class of fisherman to the striper is probably the expert catch and release fly-fisherman that hooks 50 fish a day. They probably kill more fish per trip than an entire 6 pack charter that limits out. At least on the charter boat they target big fish, catching very few shorts, then usually call it a day once the limit is reached.

The thing about the license for charter boats is just to deal with ignorance. They provided a boat license so the charter captain doesn't have to orchestrate his fares buying their own license. I've never looked into it, but it might be possible for anybody to get one (though it costs a lot more).

I'm OK with that, most likely if you are chartering a boat you are a novice at best; it's hard enough making sure the experienced guys get the license before your first trip out.

There's no sense to designating the charter boats by themselves; again, they are just taxis that come with a tour guide. The recreational angler is the one doing the fishing.

Jon

On my own boat, when we had a 23.75 inch cod, that the enviro said was "MORE LIKE 23!", as the boat owner I got a written warning for "POSSESSION OF COD".. "< 24 inches" (classic)..

Boat owner is responsible.

And correct me if I'm wrong, a 23.75" fish is smaller than 24".

Maybe my maths are bad and all, but I'm pretty sure!

Boat owner is responsible.

And correct me if I'm wrong, a 23.75" fish is smaller than 24".

Maybe my maths are bad and all, but I'm pretty sure!
Damn those EPs for enforcing a clearly defined regulation. Sounds like the EP was as reasonable as he could be. Certainly could have dished out a fine if he felt so inclined.

Actually, the worst class of fisherman to the striper is probably the expert catch and release fly-fisherman that hooks 50 fish a day. They probably kill more fish per trip than an entire 6 pack charter that limits out. At least on the charter boat they target big fish, catching very few shorts, then usually call it a day once the limit is reached.



Ugh.

A C&R flyfisherman probably kills about 2% of what he hooks (an accepted number for barbless single hooks and small fish).
Even if he killed the standard CR number of 12% (which he doesn't) he would kill 6 fish in your scenario....which is 1/2 what the 6 pack charter kills taking their limit (not counting the 4 extra fish kept under the mate and captain's allowance and another 12% of what they release).

Also, charter boats do not call it a day after the limit is reached, they fish out the alloted hours. Then there is the issue that killing big (female) fish damages the breeding population much more than killing small fish. Furthermore, the charter boat does this day after day after day.....the average recreational fisherman fishes many less hours a season.

If you want to argue that charter boat kill is recreational kill, fine. There is no need, however, to propagate clueless exaggerated myths about the impact of C&R fishing.

On my own boat, when we had a 23.75 inch cod, that the enviro said was "MORE LIKE 23!", as the boat owner I got a written warning for "POSSESSION OF COD".. "< 24 inches" (classic)..

In other words, the boat owner takes the wrap, they didn't ask who's fish it was, it just went on me. Same as it probably does on a commercial boat or charter. Back to Stripers..

There are plenty of private boat fisherman out there killing as many as they can, it's not something limited to a charter or commercial boat.

Actually, the worst class of fisherman to the striper is probably the expert catch and release fly-fisherman that hooks 50 fish a day. They probably kill more fish per trip than an entire 6 pack charter that limits out. At least on the charter boat they target big fish, catching very few shorts, then usually call it a day once the limit is reached.

The thing about the license for charter boats is just to deal with ignorance. They provided a boat license so the charter captain doesn't have to orchestrate his fares buying their own license. I've never looked into it, but it might be possible for anybody to get one (though it costs a lot more).

I'm OK with that, most likely if you are chartering a boat you are a novice at best; it's hard enough making sure the experienced guys get the license before your first trip out.

There's no sense to designating the charter boats by themselves; again, they are just taxis that come with a tour guide. The recreational angler is the one doing the fishing.

Jon

You kept a short fish, you got written up, what did you expect? 24" means 24". That is actually awesome to hear he or she didn't let it go.

OVER THE LINE!!

This isn't 'Nam Smokey this is bowling, there are rules.

smart ass taking a few lines out of contexts....haha.........

A day of trolling or light line so called catch and release kills many more fish than any other striper fishing method in current use......the handful of fish found with gear injested is nothing compared to the numerous dead stripers observed with ripped open mouths -some with treble hooked plugs jamed in their dead or maws--results of light line breakage....."oh look at that fish swim away---yea to become crab food......again, to operate-to develope regulations- on so called common sense---is a tool being used by the recs(the real ones destroying the striped bass fishery by the massive numbers of them pounding the bass to death)....is foolish--to take the heat , focus off the rec group that is killing and maiming the vast majority of striped bass

One needs a dedicated study before changes be made....when emotion charged & legislators take up the task of fish/wildlife management --the ones that utilize the fishery will suffer in the end..

Regulations Guised as a deception to get the heat off the Rec/charter commercials......."Oh we are the good guys"

Oh yea, who put the Division up to exploring said proposed regulations...none other than members of various rec groups willing to go to any method to covet/steal all the fish for their own pleasure

A dangerous precedent is being marketed here......

I'm FOR ALL REGULATIONS BE BASED ON SOUND SCIENTIFIC STUDIES OF MERIT WHICH ARE POSSIBLE...NOT FOR REGULATIONS BASED ON A SELECT GROUPS DESIRING CONTROL OF A FISHERIES RESOURCE............THESE TAKE TIME AND PROCEEDURE.....show me the conphrehensive data.............not a handful of incidents.....

Banning Catch & Release with light tackle---or fished dragged on heavy trolling tackle behind Charters Boats KILL many many more striped bass.........than a couple of sinkers or J hooks........:smash:

..There are various levels of lead and other heavy metals in many foods either store bought or harvested in the wild.......might as well ban many foods on this suppostion......in fact, many food scientists believe the accepted levels of metals and other "good stuff" in foods are to high.....SHOW a substancial testing to substanciate high levels of lead in striped bass. Most likely more lead in ones Thanksgiving turkey....

With all that is discused here .....one can tethered the sinker to the hook-to prevent loss....da

The "Maine" point in contention here is the method of attempting to gain unjustafied control of a natural resource by one user group

The main thrust of coversive action is the methodolgy of the so called "Self Proclaimed Striper Savers"........that will use any method feasible---including infiltrating mangement to foster "their cause"---cause being a total take over of the wonderful striped bass-currently an established tradition MULTIPLE USE RESOURCE..

....granted many established channels of proceedures are being followed..............HOWEVER....in the case of the sinker....NOT ENOUGH HARD Scientific DATA ON RECORD

WE ALL UTILIZE THE STRIPED BASS RESOURCE....dead or alive

We get it, you yoyo and hate circle hooks and you're gonna spew till you die against the ban.

You're the minority.

Taking a short fish is poaching, how does it feel to publicly admit you're a poacher?

..Hey Dummy......riff raff mentioned a short cod....da.....using lobsters to bait stripers(probably undersized & illegally procured) is poaching.............the Real poachers are all you clowns that want to steal all the striped bassfor your personal use....---using method of take to eliminate other users groups...da......da...circle hooks have their time & place for usage-however the J hook is needed in certain fishing applications.........MULTIPLE USE ACCESS TO THE STRIPED BASS FISHERY is a honorable use of the resource.....

OH I get it ..your one of those "Foreva guys".....that want to control the striped bass...

..Hey Dummy......riff raff mentioned a short cod....da.....using lobsters to bait stripers(probably undersized & illegally procured) is poaching.............the Real poachers are all you clowns that want to steal all the striped bassfor your personal use....---using method of take to eliminate other users groups...da......da...circle hooks have their time & place for usage-however the J hook is needed in certain fishing applications.........MULTIPLE USE ACCESS TO THE STRIPED BASS FISHERY is a honorable use of the resource.....

OH I get it ..your one of those "Foreva guys".....that want to control the striped bass...
This is like being a commercial logger down in the rain forests and telling the locals "you just want all these trees for yourselves. Multiple use to the trees is honorable. Now stop preventing us from cutting them all down."

Also, I'm not sure if you understand what "poacher" actually means.

.....Happy Holidays:love:

using lobsters to bait stripers(probably undersized & illegally procured) is poaching

IT TOTALLY IS! CALL THE FISHCOPS!
Hold on, a green truck just went by, I'll go flag him down.

All my lobsters are procured with a lobster call. I'm a professional lobster caller, I'm hired to herd them. You have never heard a lobster call like my lobster call.

the Real poachers are all you clowns that want to steal all the striped bassfor your personal use

i use them for friends. squishy slimy scaly friends.
and call them george

What's the status of this bill?