1.17 It is prohibited that any person use foot gear with external felt soles in any state
waters, inclusive of freshwater, tidal, or marine. This shall include any waters
shared with adjacent states in which any Rhode Island Fishing Regulations apply.

Taken from the RI DEM website. Is this a new rule for this season? Just when we thought Korkers were on their way out... I will stick to my felts and wearbars. How many times have you seen a green cop after dark?

Considering there's a legitimate reason for it, not cool.

Considering there's a legitimate reason for it, not cool.

Does the algae/rocksnot live in saltwater? Ive only hear of there being issues in freshwater where i don't fish in waders.

Somehow I would tend to think it would only apply to fresh water only. On LI, there is now a ban on felt soles on the Connetquot River to stop the spread of whirling disease (?). Only applies there.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

This is about the fear of spreading rocksnot in fresh water, but laws are not always written by the most informed individuals, so they just assume apply it to ALL water while they are at it... But then again, when it comes to rock snot and what makes it tick, I'll admit I am not the most informed individual either...

i never heard of this one.
this fall i tallked to two different dem people on the beach. both times wearing felt soles and they never said a word.
maybe just fresh??????

Will they take your waders, or just the felts? Sometimes I wear snugly fitting long-john bottoms. Don't want to be forced to walk back to me truck shoeless, with me kibbles-and-bits and buttocks clearly outlined.

I was never aware of this and I have not seen this and have started looking through my various notes.

Not seen in any of the RISAA discussions either.

Definitely worth looking into.

Not sure if they are still doing it but last year LLBean was giving a discount on new wading shoes if you turned in a felt pair. Bean was no longer going to sell felt sole waders. I think this trend is going to happen, at least in the northern part of the country.

1.17 It is prohibited that any person use foot gear with external felt soles in any state
waters, inclusive of freshwater, tidal, or marine. This shall include any waters
shared with adjacent states in which any Rhode Island Fishing Regulations apply.

Taken from the RI DEM website. Is this a new rule for this season? Just when we thought Korkers were on their way out... I will stick to my felts and wearbars. How many times have you seen a green cop after dark?

Where on the RI DEM site did you find this? Looked around and came up empty.

So what creative ways do you have for replacing felt soles on existing boots?


Where on the RI DEM site did you find this? Looked around and came up empty.


http://www.dem.ri.gov/pubs/regs/regs/fishwild/fish1213.pdf

So what creative ways do you have for replacing felt soles on existing boots?

Boy they snuck that rule in without any warning.

Maybe just call them synthetic soles when asked?

I'll continue to use my Cabelas Ultralites in the surf until I hear someone getting warned.

This impacts a lot of people - wonder if you could write it off as a loss.

DZ

Boy they snuck that rule in without any warning.


Yeh - I heard ZERO scuttlebutt on this.

Got your license? Let me see the bottom of your shoes. Let's put a tape measure on that fillet you have in the cooler. Where's your car parked?
Land of the free - what bull_hit this is turning into. Just another opportunity to interact with the douche bags from D.E.M. enforcement. Why don't they go stake out the back doors of restaurants serving fresh striped bass out of season, and leave us alone.

I'm sure there is a legitimate and documented reason for this in FRESHWATER (zebra mussels) - but in the MARINE environment I've seen nothing about felt soles transmitting invasive species. If there is please enlighten me? Anyone? Maybe I'll shoot an email to the marine division of Fish & Wildlife.

DZ

They are worried about rock snot.......but this should not be a problem in a marine setting......I mean felt soles are a life/ broken bone saver for goodness sake's..........

For saltwater, this is serious BS- I've been wearing studded felts for years now, they're the only thing I've been confident in for a long time as I have a bad back and a slip can put me out for a week.
I fish freshwater in two entirely different set of waders- one for home waters and one for traveling and the traveling pair I soak the boots in bleach and use disinfectant on the uppers.
IMO, its the traveling guides that spread most of the crap, they bypass alot of the regs because waders- as well as rods, reels, lines and nets- are a business tool instead of recreational gear and it gets shipped to where they're going freight and does not get inspected.

Has anyone actually called the DEM for clarification?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Has anyone actually called the DEM for clarification?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Spence,
I have the deputy chief of RI F&W looking into this now. Will advise when he gets back to me.

DZ

IMO, its the traveling guides that spread most of the crap, they bypass alot of the regs because waders- as well as rods, reels, lines and nets- are a business tool instead of recreational gear and it gets shipped to where they're going freight and does not get inspected.

This. I like the fact that there's concern about the spread of didymo, but this reminds me of the circle hook discussion... Banning felt soles is like putting a band-aid on a severed arm. If you walk in that crap it gets everywhere on your boots, not just the soles. The ONLY way to stop it is by using a bleach solution after every trip.

And banning it in marine settings is just moronic... But I guess they just want to make it a blanket ban so that people won't be tempted to use their SW felt soles in the fresh.

Guess I'll be returning my boots...I rinse the crap outta my gear every trip (boots included) and still this rock snot spreads? and in the salt??? Hmmm

Rock Snot cannot live in salt water. The cited passage is part of the FRESHWATER FISHING REGULATIONS and should have no effect in salt water.

I urge you to contact RIDEM...my letter as follows:

December 22, 2011


Janet Coit, Director
RI Dept. of Environmental Management
235 Promenade St.
Providence, RI 02908

RE: RIDEM Fisheries regulation 1.17

Dear Director Coit:

I wish to express my concern with the implementation of the above regulation prohibiting the use of felt soled wading shoes in RI waters, effective January 1, 2012.

There seems to have been little or no advance notice of this regulation which affects a large segment of the licensed fishermen and women who wade in Rhode Island waters. In fact, leaders of some of RI’s largest groups representing sport fishermen, when contacted, knew nothing about the regulation scheduled to go into effect in a week’s time.

In researching this issue, only three states, as of this date, have implemented such a ban. In those cases, confirmation of aquatic invasives, namely didymo, have been confirmed in their waters. I’m not aware of any confirmation of same in RI waters, certainly not in saltwater. Many of these states took a pro-active approach to educating and advising their fishing public before implementing their regulations as did Maryland:

" Back in 2009, the Department started placing Wader Washer Stations around areas where they had located Didymo in state waters. After further monitoring and concern of spreading Didymo and other invasive organisms and diseases, the Department began scoping the idea of a felt-soled wader/boot ban in March 2010. The Department discussed this at its non-tidal public meetings throughout the spring of 2010 and scoped the idea at its May 2010 Fisheries Service regulatory scoping meeting. Additionally, the Department posted this idea up on its draft regulations webpage in May 2010 and took emailed comments on this idea until it was proposed in December 2010. The idea was scoped a second time at the September 2010 Fisheries Service regulatory scoping meeting. Throughout the summer and fall of 2010, the Department sent information about the idea of a ban to stakeholders, put posters at sporting shows and fairs and worked with the media to get out information. Once the regulation was proposed, the Department held a public hearing in Cumberland, Maryland in January 2011 and took nearly 44 days worth of public comment (approximately 2 weeks longer than required by law). During the public comment time period, the Department again reached out to the media to help disseminate information. The Department will also be handing out information cards throughout 2011."

I’m not aware of a public comment period on the RI regulation, nor any serious effort to educate the fishing public about the spread of invasives, aside from posters directed to the boating public at state boat ramps.

As an individual, concerned about these environmental issues, I and others have taken steps through my blogsite, team7x.com (http://team7x.com), to make fishermen aware of the need to properly care for wading gear by placing signage at popular locations in the Eastern Connecticut area, where I am also licensed. Nothing that I can immediately reference on the RIDEM website seems to be directed toward this education effort.

Further, the ban on felt in saltwater cannot be supported by any reasonable means. The state of Missouri for instance recommends cleaning of wading gear by using salt water as follows:

"So the conservation department built wash stations at four of the trout parks in Missouri, so anglers can wash off before and after fishing to make sure no algae is on their waders.
"You just simply step down into the salt water solution. There is a brush that's attached to the hand rails that you can scrub your waders down with. You should also check to make sure you don't have any vegetation, algae, or whatever on your waders,” Van Patten said. “If you do just remove it in the cleaning station."

The large majority of anglers who wade in RI waters with any frequency own and rely on felt soled wading shoes for safety. If properly disinfected, which I find many of my fishing acquaintances do after leaving the water, the spread of any KNOWN aquatic invasive is minimized. Again, to my knowledge no KNOWN invasive has been identified in our waters.
To require many of our licensed anglers to now purchase wading boots without felt to comply with what is to become a regulation in a few days, is financially burdensome.

I would respectfully ask that you suspend implementation of this regulation until the fishing public and stakeholders have an opportunity to become aware of the issue of aquatic invasives and the pros and cons of this issue can be weighed in public.

All that letter will prove is that you cannot read! :) Read my post above, its part of the freshwater regs and doesn't apply to waters in the marine district.

All that letter will prove is that you cannot read! :) Read my post above, its part of the freshwater regs and doesn't apply to waters in the marine district.

That may be Mike, but the wording does say MARINE.

regardless, this needs to be resolved, but DEM... good luck finding me at night to check my boots :biglaugh:

All that letter will prove is that you cannot read! :) Read my post above, its part of the freshwater regs and doesn't apply to waters in the marine district.

Read the regulation as cited by the original post. It clearly says "any state waters...tidal, or marine."

http://www.dem.ri.gov/pubs/regs/regs/fishwild/fish1213.pdf

Rock Snot cannot live in salt water. The cited passage is part of the FRESHWATER FISHING REGULATIONS and should have no effect in salt water.

All that letter will prove is that you cannot read! :) Read my post above, its part of the freshwater regs and doesn't apply to waters in the marine district.

Should or doesn't?

I emailed her as well a couple of days ago, i hope to get a response. If i do i will post it on here. I dont have an issue with the ban in fresh water, i support it. But in salt water it is not needed. Especially when salt was is used to disinfect gear in some places.

I have six pairs of studded felt soles saved for myself.

Spence,
I have the deputy chief of RI F&W looking into this now. Will advise when he gets back to me.

DZ

Ok then, everyone relax until Dennis gets back to us with the real skinny.

Just saw this link posted on the Saltwater Edge's FB page.

Newsflash: Rhode Island Bans Felt Soles Without Telling Anyone (http://www.orvisnews.com/en/FlyFishing/Newsflash-RI-Bans-Felt-Soles.aspx?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+OrvisFlyFishingBlog+%28OrvisN ews.com+Fly+Fishing+Blog%29)

Rip tide anglers reports ditmo in the farmington .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I went through this in Vermont this year. Here it makes sense because it is all fresh water and we do have rock snot spreading. But they only gave us about 11 months notice. I looked around for ways to convert my felts to studs. No one did it around here and if you sent them away it was expensive. My buddy ground the felts off his and slipped on yak tracks. He lost them in a muddy river patch. Think about the cost....me and my son each wear chest waders in spring and fall and hippers in the summer. We both got new stocking foot chest waders ( about $250 each) with outer "eco boots" (about $125 each pair) and stocking foot hippers (about $140 each). That's over $1,000. It was a huge hit and It still hurts.

I don't know about the rest of you guys but I just bought a pair of Cabelas Lite felt sole boots which I just put $50 worth of Wearbar studs into. I am wearing mine until they catch me and fine me.

Like Bryan said, good luck catching me at 2 in the morning out on some reef.

Dave at riptide said it was all water salt and fresh
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I just did a pretty good search on the Rock Snot. The remediation is to soak the felt soles in a 5% solution of saltwater.
So let me understand this: You can't wear them in salt water but saltwater KILLS Rock Snot.

Same folks running DEM in RI also run the DMV who assessed my TrailBlazer with 214,000 miles at $10K.:fury::smash:

Lets hope Coupe Deval doesn't catch wind of this. There'll be a new "felt Sole" tax in mass.

Pete g of swe blogged that dem is evaluating the total ban including shore fishing in salt, based on inquiries from Risaa. Hopefully the dem will get their understanding of what actually kills ditmo soon.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

RISAA is looking into clarification but this may not impact Surfcasters along shore but may affect those fishing estuaries

RISAA is looking into clarification but this may not impact Surfcasters along shore but may affect those fishing estuaries

Yes dear
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Cabela's Ultralight 2 Lug Wading Boots with stud pods are marked down from 69.99 to 49.99 SALE
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Cabela's Ultralight 2 Lug Wading Boots with stud pods are marked down from 69.99 to 49.99 SALE
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Thanks I just ordered a pair

States start banning felt-sole waders - USATODAY.com (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/environment/2011-04-28-rock-snot-felt-sole-wader-ban_n.htm)

Deputy Chief of RI F&W replied today that he has not yet heard back from the Freshwater Division yet because of the holiday break. He said that they (Freshwater Division) have no jurisdiction over marine waters which are under authority of the Marine Division with advice from the RI Marine Fisheries Council. He speculated that this laws "intent" may have been to cover waters "upstream" of the official fresh/salt water boundaries when high tides intrude. I'll post when I hear the official explanation so don't sell your felts yet.

DZ

Deputy Chief of RI F&W replied today that he has not yet heard back from the Freshwater Division yet because of the holiday break. He said that they (Freshwater Division) have no jurisdiction over marine waters which are under authority of the Marine Division with advice from the RI Marine Fisheries Council. He speculated that this laws "intent" may have been to cover waters "upstream" of the official fresh/salt water boundaries when high tides intrude. I'll post when I hear the official explanation so don't sell your felts yet.

DZ

See, I told you guys to wait for DZ to get the real story. Thanks Dennis!

See, I told you guys to wait for DZ to get the real story. Thanks Dennis!

I told you HAH

Anyone want to buy some felt soled boots? :devil2:

See, I told you guys to wait for DZ to get the real story. Thanks Dennis!

You're acting like spence now, you never said that
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You're acting like spence now, you never said that
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Yes I did Mr. Smarty Pants. Look at post #30 in this thread.

A comment left to a posting on my blogsite:

"FYI, an executive member of RI Trout Unlimited Ch225, specifically requested the banning of felt bottom waders in RI fresh water at the last public RIDEM fishing regulations meeting held at the Warwick Police station at the end of this past summer. His request and comments should be in the public record."

Well...a check of the DEM website does not show a public hearing agenda item concerning adoption of this regulation, nor any hearing in "late summer." There MAY have been a meeting, but no evidence exists of a properly noticed "hearing" as required by law. If anyone can find that notice or minutes thereof, post it up!
Further, an "executive" of TU RI 225 speaks for whom?...The thousands of salwater anglers represented by RISAA and others that were completely unaware of this proposal? Was this issue brought forward as a result of a vote by TU members? Again a check of TU newsletters shows no agenda item concerning felt sole ban.

Appears we have one "executive" TU member persuading RIDEM to adopt a regulation in the dark of night! Priceless!

A comment left to a posting on my blogsite:

"FYI, an executive member of RI Trout Unlimited Ch225, specifically requested the banning of felt bottom waders in RI fresh water at the last public RIDEM fishing regulations meeting held at the Warwick Police station at the end of this past summer. His request and comments should be in the public record."

Well...a check of the DEM website does not show a public hearing agenda item concerning adoption of this regulation, nor any hearing in "late summer." There MAY have been a meeting, but no evidence exists of a properly noticed "hearing" as required by law. If anyone can find that notice or minutes thereof, post it up!
Further, an "executive" of TU RI 225 speaks for whom?...The thousands of salwater anglers represented by RISAA and others that were completely unaware of this proposal? Was this issue brought forward as a result of a vote by TU members? Again a check of TU newsletters shows no agenda item concerning felt sole ban.

Appears we have one "executive" TU member persuading RIDEM to adopt a regulation in the dark of night! Priceless!

team7x.com (http://team7x.com)

Just heard back from RIDEM: Public hearing was held on June 1st, 2011. I have the minutes, names, etc. Proposal for felt sole ban was made by a member of Northern RI Chapter of Trout Unlimited, a member of Narragansett Trout Unlimited, and a member of Federated Rhode Island Sportman's Club. Seems the RIDEM Enforcement Division incorporated the rule to cover all waters for "ease of inforcement".

Good news is there is a vehicle to get this rule changed: petition for change at this years public hearing for 2013 rules. Who knows how vigilant enforcement will be this season. I asked the division to post some clarification on their web page because there was all sorts of misinformation about this controversy.

Our first step might be to ask RISAA to get the Marine Fisheries Council to bring up the topic and send a memorandum to the Freshwater Division recommending that marine waters be deleted.

Letters to the DEM director would also be beneficial - she would be the only one who could possibly alter the regulation for the upcoming season. I believe she has that power.

DZ

The ban on felt soles is in the freshwater fishing regulations. Section 2.6 of these regualtions clearly defines the boundaries of freshwater and saltwater sections of the streams where these regulations apply. These regulated sections do include tidal and marine state waters, where felt soles would be prohibited.

I think it is clear that these reglations do NOT apply to any of the seaward portions of these rivers and streams from these boundaries, and could be legally argued to that point.

The ban on felt soles is in the freshwater fishing regulations. Section 2.6 of these regualtions clearly defines the boundaries of freshwater and saltwater sections of the streams where these regulations apply. These regulated sections do include tidal and marine state waters, where felt soles would be prohibited.

I think it is clear that these reglations do NOT apply to any of the seaward portions of these rivers and streams from these boundaries, and could be legally argued to that point.

Bill,
I totally agree with your reasoning but that is not the case from what I was told.

Quote from F&W: "It (the regulation) was made inclusive of all waters for Enforcement purposes; so that anglers were not confused as to where the freshwater/saltwater boundaries were in estuarine areas."

Basically what the above statement means is that instead of trying to figuere out where you can or cannot use them it would make it simpler to just include all waters including marine. I don't like it, don't feel it's necessary in the open surf, and will do my part to get it changed. I encourage all others to do the same.

DZ

That may be their intent, but the exact wording of 2.6 is: "Boundaries - The defined boundaries for the freshwater and saltwater sections of the sate's rivers and streams, with regard to the areas where Freshwater Regualtions apply, are as follows:"

I guess they may try and enforce it on the ocean front, but at least maybe anybody that is caught could argue that they are outside of the regulated area, and possibly get off and avoid a fine. I realize that the regulation regarding the felt soles says "any state waters", which is contradictory to the later definition of the boundaries.

And if the boundaries are clearly defined in the regulations already, why do they think we would be confused on where the boundaries are (aside from someone not reading the regulation)?

Team7x - PM on the way - thanks...

Basically what the above statement means is that instead of trying to figuere out where you can or cannot use them it would make it simpler to just include all waters including marine. I don't like it, don't feel it's necessary in the open surf, and will do my part to get it changed. I encourage all others to do the same.

While it does stink to have it be all waters inclusive of marine, there is a logic to it- this will keep the weekend warriors who don't give a s**t about what they spread or where in check. Unfortunately, thats about 2 in 5 "anglers'. And as much as I really hate the reg., I don't feel arguing boundries or mean high tide marks will serve any useful purpose. I think that the best that might be done would be post any area where fresh water runs to the salt, but again, there's going to be the jerk factor to screw it up for the rest of us.

From what I understand the Freshwater fisheries dept does not have the authority to impose any regulations in the marine district.

I just ordered a new pair of boots from Cabelas. I'll just have to carry two pair. Felts for the canal and rubber soles for Rhody. The Felts were a wee too tight anyhoo.

Our fishing club letter to Fish and Wildlife requesting "marine waters" be deleted from the new regulation is on its way. Looks like RISAA is also on board with support. Stay tuned.

Don't dump your felts yet.

DZ

LOL Years ago they tried to ban 4x4 beach rigs from historic access due to the risk of possible oil leaks. Some smart A-- brought the sales figures for sun tan oil and other oils used by bathers to the meeting.Over 100,000 gals sold on the Cape alone.Puts a nice sheen on the water and helps kill most fish larve. the oil issue was dropped.You never hear them tell other rec users they have to stop using something or going somewhere due to the damage they may cause just hunters n fishermen.Wait till it still spreads due to birds ,animals,swimmers an such. They'll try to tell us we can't fish in the water due to our lines scraping the stuff off the bottom.No point in looking at the issue an dealing with it just target fisherman an such--MMMMMM Makes a body wonder who is pushing the issue.

This just in!! The whole thing has proven too confusing for DEM to enforce, so a ban on fishing all together will take place during the entire 2012 season. :smash: