Wow I knew it was gettin bad but 83 plus percent total decline an then another 34 % was just in the last year.An all the nay sayers give those of us that have been calling for a slow down as alarmist. WOW

Link please....
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our Query Parameters:
Query: MRIP CATCH TIME SERIES
Year: 2006 - 2011
Wave: ANNUAL
Species: STRIPED BASS
Geographic Area: MASSACHUSETTS
Fishing Mode: ALL MODES COMBINED
Fishing Area: ALL AREAS COMBINED
Type of Catch: TOTAL CATCH (TYPE A + B1 + B2)
Information: NUMBERS OF FISH


Estimate Status Year Common Name Total Catch (A+B1+B2) PSE
FINAL 2006 STRIPED BASS 8,124,766 10.2
FINAL 2007 STRIPED BASS 5,646,880 12.6
FINAL 2008 STRIPED BASS 4,027,374 11.7
FINAL 2009 STRIPED BASS 2,627,003 10.6
FINAL 2010 STRIPED BASS 2,012,483 11.1
PRELIMINARY 2011 STRIPED BASS 1,323,156 14.6

Decrease from 2006 to 2011 is 6,802,000 fish, a decrease of 83.7%
Decrease from 2010 to 2011 was 690,000 fish, a decrease of 34%

How do they get those numbers?

How do they get those numbers?

For 2006 to 2010 they pulled them out of their ass! :smash:

FINAL 2006 STRIPED BASS 8,124,766 10.2
FINAL 2007 STRIPED BASS 5,646,880 12.6
FINAL 2008 STRIPED BASS 4,027,374 11.7
FINAL 2009 STRIPED BASS 2,627,003 10.6
FINAL 2010 STRIPED BASS 2,012,483 11.1
PRELIMINARY 2011 STRIPED BASS 1,323,156 14.6


Pretty graphic, might be termed as a CRASH!

Can I make golf clubs out my custom RA 's. Be a shame not to use them for something.
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it wouldn't surprise me if r.i's was right there also. after all was said and done, a slow year by all accounts.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& all the time we have been telling ya the f #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g sky is falling ..ya been catching & keeping bass ;:smash::smash::smash:

IMO My bass gear is worthless because except for large [only for a couple of more years ]] then when they are wiped out .............. I,m not gonna be around to see a rebound .if there is one this time ................... back when the last time this happened .The Chessie .was still alive & no Micro bacteria ...this time add the MB with the pollution that was allowed to continue // its a #^&#^&#^&#^&ing dead zone in many many areas . that will not substain any form of life .

FI ><><><><

c+r is fine

Toldyaso
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http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/SASStoredProcess/do?

RI number

Estimate Status Year Common Name Total Catch (A+B1+B2) PSE
FINAL 2006 STRIPED BASS 910,764 14.8
FINAL 2007 STRIPED BASS 779,252 13.2
FINAL 2008 STRIPED BASS 467,564 30.4
FINAL 2009 STRIPED BASS 470,113 25.7
FINAL 2010 STRIPED BASS 253,220 18.5
PRELIMINARY 2011 STRIPED BASS 157,807 22.0

NH numbers

Estimate Status Year Common Name Total Catch (A+B1+B2) PSE
FINAL 2006 STRIPED BASS 474,136 14.6
FINAL 2007 STRIPED BASS 263,720 22.4
FINAL 2008 STRIPED BASS 82,545 18.2
FINAL 2009 STRIPED BASS 66,030 19.7
FINAL 2010 STRIPED BASS 57,781 31.0
PRELIMINARY 2011 STRIPED BASS 126,126 31.2

Maine numbers

Estimate Status Year Common Name Total Catch (A+B1+B2) PSE
FINAL 2006 STRIPED BASS 4,075,656 20.7
FINAL 2007 STRIPED BASS 1,168,763 19.7
FINAL 2008 STRIPED BASS 524,155 24.4
FINAL 2009 STRIPED BASS 325,665 17.5
FINAL 2010 STRIPED BASS 211,138 16.7
PRELIMINARY 2011 STRIPED BASS 142,607 26.6

Why is it that the Cod regulations are going to be a lot tighter in the coming years but there is little talk about any meaningful change in the striper take. Since both the numbers come from NOAA i would think they would both be worthy of taking action.

[QUOTE=Clammer;920641]&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& all the time we have been telling ya the f #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g sky is falling ..ya been catching & keeping bass ;:smash::smash::smash:

+1

Us old farts never did know what we were talkin about.

Why is it that the Cod regulations are going to be a lot tighter in the coming years but there is little talk about any meaningful change in the striper take. Since both the numbers come from NOAA i would think they would both be worthy of taking action.

The hearings at the State House on the 28th of February include a discussion on a proposed law to declare the striped bass a gamefish (no more commercial fishing) and reducing the recreational catch by 50%. Also on the table (I believe) is the idea of a slot like in Maine.

From another site....

There will be three Bills heard that day:
1) The Conservation Bill which prohibits the commercial sale of wild stripers, has a slot limit component, reduces the recreational harvest by 50% and sets the commercial quota aside for conservation.
2) A health Bill that asks for the testing of all wild striped bass for potentially harmful contaminants and the issuing of warnings if appropriate.
3) A Bill that directs the State to manage the wild striped bass for its greatest economic value/return to the Commonwealth.

Show up and have your voice heard, call your State Rep, or both.

Here is a graph representing the total catch for MA, RI, NH, AND ME for 2006-2011.

Bottom axis represents 2006-2011.

Similar to the line graph in the link above, but easier to compare the decline year to year.

There have been a ton of fish killed just by all of us on this board over the years. A common theme seemed to be, "anyone who says they would release a 50 is full of it." What percent of big fish caught at the canal in May or June are released or released w/out first being hung by the jaw? It isn't many. We all should have know this was going to happen as far back as the 90's. Once the numbers start dropping, it is pretty much too late. I hate the ASMFC. What b.s.

Food for thought,

Here is catch by state for 2006-2011.

Well we can start the blame game again but might it be a little bit more productive if we all just went to catch n release for a bit. No more treble hook bait fishin ,bent barbs,better release methods,circle hooks an so on.I really would like to be able to get my grand kids into one someday.Some of us old farts started doin this a few yrs back an were told we were wasting our time as there were loads of fish we all just didn't know how to catch them anymore.Anyone want to join us in trying to have some fish in the future?

Granite State is on fire.

Only state with an increase from 06-11

this doesn't surprise me one bit. Had to really work 2 season's ago, last was even worst. Dismal numbers to say the least. It bothers to think it'll get even worst.

There was a school of bass 10 miles long off the backside spotted by a few spotter planes. day after day all summer long but I guess the Pratt family probly made that up.
Lets not forget the commercial bass quota only took 17 days to fill
NOAA can't count there own toes
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C&R with single hooks would definitely help, but

GAMEFISH STATUS AND A 5 YEAR MORATORIUM

would be even better!


Freak, so we mighty fishermen just can't find or catch the bass, is that the issue?

Granite State is on fire.

Only state with an increase from 06-11

if only it were true. Maybe some of the Nh boys will chime in.

C&R with single hooks would definitely help, but

GAMEFISH STATUS AND A 5 YEAR MORATORIUM

would be even better!


Freak, so we mighty fishermen just can't find or catch the bass, is that the issue?

Not getting into a pissing match, many people had a great season. Like I said NOAA can't count there own toes.
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Not getting into a pissing match, many people had a great season. Like I said NOAA can't count there own toes.
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I don't want to get into a pissing match either, but what percentage of these fish are out in deeper water? I think a lot of the concern here comes from shore fisherman and guys with small boats. :uhuh:

NOAA also claimed that recreational fisherman caught more codfish than the entire commercial fleet (you know, the draggers, gill netters, and tub trawlers) and most all of that occurred in the last 2 weeks of April (when 90% of rec boats aren't even in the water).

To call NOAA's data collection unreliable is a hideous understatement.
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Why is it that the Cod regulations are going to be a lot tighter in the coming years but there is little talk about any meaningful change in the striper take. Since both the numbers come from NOAA i would think they would both be worthy of taking action.

Cod are managed federally by NOAA, SB are managed by state.

NOAA also claimed that recreational fisherman caught more codfish than the entire commercial fleet (you know, the draggers, gill netters, and tub trawlers) and most all of that occurred in the last 2 weeks of April (when 90% of rec boats aren't even in the water).

To call NOAA's data collection unreliable is a hideous understatement.
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I was at the meeting on Friday, and this was addressed... Rauch said that data in particular has been updated, and it's not nearly as high as initially reported. Maybe BP can chime in on that one.

Updated.. sure, because everyone raised holy hell when it was published. NOAA was running with them until they were questioned.

Kumbaya my Lord - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jjcxFGEysE&feature=related)

LOL So I'm to enterperet that we still just wanna argue about it instead of doing anything. same dumb-A-- response from us that brought about the moratorium yrs ago. so are we gonna do something constructive of just moan an groan as usuall.we can fix this if we get off our collective butts an work together. We are a damn big voice that a load of other anglers listen to.

Thank god it's just NOAA's data that is wrong.

You would think they could count dead fish accurately after all these years of practice.

Keep on killing boys- the ocean's bounty knows no bounds.

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Lack of communication hurt us a long time back. guys like John an Zeno along with a load of good anglers with some heavy credability give us a huge tool to use to get some important changes made now when needed so that in a few yrs things will be much better. i went through one moratorium an learned a lot from guys like Bob Pond,Stan Gibbs,Roberto Germani,Jerry Jansen an a load of others.Most important waS THAT IF WE WORKED TOGETHER WE CAN ACCOMPLISH A LOT.We can only hurt ourselves with all the insesant bickering.We not someone else need to start taking steps. i'm not talking stop fishing I'm talking being conservative and taking care to release fish so they survive an use methods of fishing an gear so the STRIPERS have the biggest chance of survival.I've put so much of my own life into this fish and the love an joy of chasing it an the fantastic people we all have had the chance to meet because of it that it would be such a shame if we don't work together to try to fix this before it gets out of hand.We need to work together. we all played a part in getting things where they are today so lets all work together to fix the problem. Ron McKee--AKA-- Striper Maine-iac

I love that when the NOAA data matches pretty much what nearly all of the serious rec fisherman have seen, it is faulty data. 8.1 million to 1.3 million is so far beyond the range of error that it is a joke to say the data is invalid. By nature, the data has error. The question are the numbers within the margin of error. Not even close. Take the 100 fisherman on this cite who consistently fish the most hours. Survey them about the fishing in 1995, 2000, 2005, 2010. No doubt in my mind that an overwhelming majority catch substantially fewer fish now than 10 years ago.

Here is a graph representing the total catch for MA, RI, NH, AND ME for 2006-2011.

Bottom axis represents 2006-2011.

Similar to the line graph in the link above, but easier to compare the decline year to year.


Another variation keeping the catch by state broken out.

I can't wait to sign up for the Striper Cup.
Who needs a stock assessment.

Us old farts never did know what we were talkin about.

Amen

If history is the benchmark, I'm betting that nothing happens to change the quota, size, commercial take, etc. No one wants to do anything until it gets like 87 & 88 when if you caught 2 schoolies you had a great morning. Then the fisheries management guys will close the season, impose a moratorium and "close the barn door after the horse is stolen."

Now I'm really glad I have taken up sporting clays and competitive pistol shooting.

Given the methods they use to collect data, the results are certainly in the ballpark. I've been keeping a detailed log since 1996 and I've used the Mass. DMF's eLogbook for the past two seasons. When they recently released information saying the recreational catch had declined 65% over the past few years, I went into my log and came up with 66% for myself.

My issue is with the arbitrary value they use as the sustainable limit. How can you know how many fish are in the ocean by counting a small percentage of those that are taken out?

The decisions made by these folks are political. They report to the Department of Commerce and their main concern is economic, not species conservation.

There was a school of bass 10 miles long off the backside spotted by a few spotter planes. day after day all summer long but I guess the Pratt family probly made that up.
Lets not forget the commercial bass quota only took 17 days to fill
NOAA can't count there own toes
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Best two years of striper fishing on the backside of cape cod we've ever seen.

Fish move.

The bait is the problem. Protect the bait, the stripers return.

Best two years of striper fishing on the backside of cape cod we've ever seen.

Fish move.

The bait is the problem. Protect the bait, the stripers return.

Anecdotal evidence does not represent the whole population. Best fishing on the backside also happened right up to the collapse. Are you saying best two years ever, including the 1960's-early 1980's? Bait wasn't the problem in the 60's- 80's. Overfishing was. We have harvested more fish in total in recent years. It will lead to collapse, if it hasn't already. Fish move, but 10 years ago they moved, as well, yet were found up in down the coast spring through late fall.

PI

Last time >.your went to Golf & Photography ><<<>:love::grins:

Food for thought,

Here is catch by state for 2006-2011.

How come ct isnt included?
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This is for all the guys who think the bass are healthy because they saw a miles-long school of them off the Cape this summer. You never judge the health of a fishery by the numbers of them in the center of their migratory range, at the middle of their migration period. There were schools like than back in the 80s, too. You go by the numbers at the end of their range, and the numbers of resident fish along their migratory route.

The tale of the tape is Maine. From more than 4 million, to less than 150,000, all in the space of 5 years.

But hey, I have other interests in my life besides fishing. So catch 'em up, boys, and keep on telling yourselves that NOAA can't count their own toes.

Yup us old farts don't know what we're talkin about LOL. No one has to listen. I remember some of the blitzes out along the Cape in the early 80's. loads of big fish. Went back home to Maine an nothing.Had a couple nice 50's back then but nothing in Maine.musta forgoten how to catch them again LOL.Don't do anything you'll learn the hard way.Like I said we CAN fix this if we do something now.But it takes all of us.not just the old farts.

PI

Last time >.your went to Golf & Photography ><<<>:love::grins:

I'm just a renaissance man.:uhuh:

There is one tournament that claims to have 3000 entries and a ten(10) fish limit. Don't know too much about that one up in MA. But that's not a catch and release thing I gather. If not, 30,000 bass is 30,000 bass.

Thankfully I'm just as happy chasing black sea bass, tog or fluke; but I do miss those days where your rod was bent all day with fat schoolies. If it gets so bad its not worth towing the boat to the launch, it will be time to sell and golf full time.

if only it were true. Maybe some of the Nh boys will chime in.

None of the people I fish with here is NH can understand where the last number came from. Since 2005 there has been a steady decrease in the catch with 2010 and 11 actually having big jumps down. Last season I was out 96 nights in NH and got about 20% of what I caught in 2005. Very few small fish from 30" or less. 2006-2009 there was really good numbers of 40-45" fish but 2010 dropped off and 2011 saw a bigger drop off. Guys out for tuna in the eez still see fair numbers but in shore has been dismal.-

One thing for sure bait isn't really the issue. Since there have been very few bluefish up here the last 7 years we have plenty of Mackerel around from May through Oct. There is still good numbers of alwives in the early season and sea herring in the fall. Bunker have been missing for the last few years. Plus we've seen some good numbers of sandeels and silversides. For a month the river had good numbers of squid.

Something here doesn't make sense. The only link posted is to a secure website. Do the guys posting these graphs have any other links to the place where this is coming from?

These graphs certainly don't coincide with data put out by the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission.

Ed B

What Tournament? I've never heard of any tournament in MA that has a 10 fish limit.....

Something here doesn't make sense. The only link posted is to a secure website. Do the guys posting these graphs have any other links to the place where this is coming from?

These graphs certainly don't coincide with data put out by the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission.

Ed B

I assume they made the graphs with the NOAA data. Which ASMFC data are you talking about? The yoy index that dropped for years up until the most recent one?

What Tournament? I've never heard of any tournament in MA that has a 10 fish limit.....

Not in one shot my friend. I'm understanding the 10 fish total is over the course of the tournament. I used the word limit, but they use the word total. But it's not about the words, it's about the 30.000 bass.

About the only catch an release tournament I know of is the TRI STATE TOUNAMENT of NEW ENGLAND that was founded back in the 60's by Bob Pond and a bunch of clubs for data reseaerch. Was a catch or release tourny till the stripers went under in the 80s then became just a catch n release on till present.

There have always been Tournies. I remember them from when my dad had a charter boat years back. But I don't think the tournies of today that include keeping so many bass over a set period of time is even any option anymore. Who gains from this? What's the point? Bragging rights? Who cares about bragging rights when this thing we do is in trouble.

I'm awed by anyone who seriously pursues this sport who disagrees with the declining trend of the stock.

I live and fish in New Hampshire. I can tell you that the shores were not teeming with striped bass this past season -- the summertime inshore fishery in NH and Southern Maine has really eroded within the past 5 years or so. Ask any guide. I suppose the increased catch data in 2011 could be attributed to (near) offshore catches(?) Honestly, I don't know anyone out there fishing from shore catching more numbers than the recent past.

Not in one shot my friend. I'm understanding the 10 fish total is over the course of the tournament. I used the word limit, but they use the word total. But it's not about the words, it's about the 30.000 bass.

Again....What Tournament? Never heard of one like that in MA.

This is never a popular sentiment, but...

As far as our own culpability as recreational anglers, our biggest contribution to the current state of the fishery is our egos.

I'll speak for myself: Earlier in the past decade, I was one of those guys out there whaling on schools of shorts -- trying to break 100 fish in a tide (etc.) so I could tell anyone willing to listen how well I did. I'd kill large fish primarily so I could get my picture taken at the local B&T for the sake of my reputation. If I couldn't give the fish away I'd toss it in the woods. Wasteful. Foolish.

I got wiser as time went on, but I did spend the entire 2007 season eeling a small section of shoreline, pounding on a summering school of 25 - 35 lb fish. I went through about 300 eels and had "the summer of my life" impressing myself with how good I was. I'm almost ashamed of that season now; eels are in tough shape in most of their range and clearly smaller bass were on the decline, but my ego mattered more than restraint and common sense.

If you have been or are on this path regarding our sport, I guess it's up to you to recognize it and decide what your actions mean to your sense of responsibility as an angler.

We are all charged with stewardship whenever we pick up our rods...whether we do a fine job or a poor job of it, it matters -- and it's the only part of this situation we can control completely ourselves.

Eric

What Tournament? I've never heard of any tournament in MA that has a 10 fish limit.....

The same outfit that draws map and spot burns locations.

I do not disagree that we have a decline in the number of fish.

But I do agree bait matters, and where there is food you will find fish.

But over the past 5-6 years, where have all the baby bunker been, we have not seen a huge fall run of fish in most of those states for many years. But back 6-10 years ago we had baby bunker everywhere. I can remember year after year going to the Vineyard and having so much baby bunker you could walk on it and the fishing at that time was awesome.

5-6 years ago we had so many big pogies in the harbor you could have walked on them and were pulling fish over the rail every day 20-35 lb fish and releasing them back.

There were 4 Pogies boats that went back into business a few years ago for one season and whiped boston harbor, salem harbor and a few other places clean out of pogies, the next season we had hardly any and it took us 4 hours of netting just to get enough to fish with for a day. so were are all the baby bunker????

I have seen alot of mackerel the past several years, and herring in balls like no other but there is something that has happened the past several years that we have not had that sustainable bait in the later part of the season,

I also want to know WHY BYCATCH IS not counted as lost numbers of fish. You have draggers and trawler putting bycatch over the rail all day long, as well as long liners, not just Stripers but everything!!! Why is that not counted in all of the loss of species factor!!!!

The cod are in trouble, Haddock is not as good as it was, they have even increased the quota on dogfish so they are eating less fish as well, so why is it that those numbers are not counted toward declines in fisheries???

There is one tournament that claims to have 3000 entries and a ten(10) fish limit. Don't know too much about that one up in MA. But that's not a catch and release thing I gather. If not, 30,000 bass is 30,000 bass.

I stopped entering it, but in all fairness, nowhere near 30,000 fish get entered. In the years that I did enter it, I weighed in exactly one fish. It was gill hooked and bleeding like a stuck pig anyway. It just happened to win me a weekly prize.

When fish in the low 30s are the Grand Leaders in the MV Derby (back in the 90s, when bass were first re-entered, you needed 50+ to even be on the board, and even in the 80s, guys took 40s and 50s from the beach and released them because they weren't Derby-eligible), you know something's wrong.

There was a school of bass 10 miles long off the backside spotted by a few spotter planes. day after day all summer long but I guess the Pratt family probly made that up.
Lets not forget the commercial bass quota only took 17 days to fill
NOAA can't count there own toes
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One big population on the backside, yet an absence of fish everywhere else... stocks must be healthy.:smash:

Didn't there used to be a time when you didn't need a boat to catch stripers because the fish were literally everywhere along the shore?

One big population on the backside, yet an absence of fish everywhere else... stocks must be healthy.:smash:

Didn't there used to be a time when you didn't need a boat to catch stripers because the fish were literally everywhere along the shore?

Do you mean littorally?

Sorry, couldn't resist the pun...
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Something here doesn't make sense. The only link posted is to a secure website. Do the guys posting these graphs have any other links to the place where this is coming from?

These graphs certainly don't coincide with data put out by the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission.

Ed B

Not sure what happened to the first link but try the link below and select "catch" query. You should be able to get the tables I posted for each state.

You really need to look at the ASMFC tables closely. The 2006 to2011 data shows about a 33% decrease in recreational kept but then it shows about a 75% decrease in the release numbers. If you add the C&R numbers together you see a decrease of about 70% decrease. This is on page 18 of the 2011 assessment. If you look at the table on page 19 you will see that the states at the North and South ends of the range have seen the biggest drops.

ASMFC says that stripers are not overfished because the stock numbers are above the SSB Threshold. Problem is in my opinion if we drop the stock to the Threshold number Maine, NH, Mass North Shore, VA, NC will not have a migratory stripe bass fishery.

http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/st1/recreational/queries/index.html

I stopped entering it, but in all fairness, nowhere near 30,000 fish get entered. In the years that I did enter it, I weighed in exactly one fish. It was gill hooked and bleeding like a stuck pig anyway. It just happened to win me a weekly prize.

When fish in the low 30s are the Grand Leaders in the MV Derby (back in the 90s, when bass were first re-entered, you needed 50+ to even be on the board, and even in the 80s, guys took 40s and 50s from the beach and released them because they weren't Derby-eligible), you know something's wrong.

I know that number seems extreme, but the site boasts of 3000 entries with a 10 fish total over the course of the tourny.
My point is Mike, with how things are with the bass, how can one site still want to promote such a tourny.
As many of us are trying to save what is left and hope things will be normal in a decade or so, there is still this type of mindset out there.
I know it's everyone's right or privilege to do what they feel is ok or do, just as long as rules and regs are followed. But does that really make it right?
There has to be a change. And the change has to come from the ones who fish for striped bass!
I know it goes deeper in some respects to the guys who eke out a living fishing, but that is something else again.

Cod are managed federally by NOAA, SB are managed by state.



I was at the meeting on Friday, and this was addressed... Rauch said that data in particular has been updated, and it's not nearly as high as initially reported. Maybe BP can chime in on that one.

Horsehockey! they haven't rerun the numbers and they have even said they won't re run the numbers. NMFS is going to stick with the new assessment, warts and all, and that's what we are all going to have to live with.

The bass are staying with the bait. Most fish are not migrating this far up. All the pogies stay south while we have sandeels. Why would u give
up prime rib for steak ums. 2 years ago everyone was pumped up about how the canal was red hot, macks everywhere same went for cape cod bay. Last year no macks no bait less fish people cry crash. Fish need a sustainable food supply to survive if there no food why stay in one area. They go were the food is.

Horsehockey! they haven't rerun the numbers and they have even said they won't re run the numbers. NMFS is going to stick with the new assessment, warts and all, and that's what we are all going to have to live with.

Sorry, that's just not true. In terms of the overall garm assessment, yes, its being used. In terms of the specific April data, its been revisited. One set of data does not an entire model make :)
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The bass are staying with the bait. Most fish are not migrating this far up. All the pogies stay south while we have sandeels. Why would u give
up prime rib for steak ums. 2 years ago everyone was pumped up about how the canal was red hot, macks everywhere same went for cape cod bay. Last year no macks no bait less fish people cry crash. Fish need a sustainable food supply to survive if there no food why stay in one area. They go were the food is.
[size=1]Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device[/size
Bs. Western LIS was filled with bunker all spring through June. We had more herring than anytime in 15 years. There are less bass. It is beyond any reasonable argument.

The bass are staying with the bait. Most fish are not migrating this far up. All the pogies stay south while we have sandeels. Why would u give
up prime rib for steak ums. 2 years ago everyone was pumped up about how the canal was red hot, macks everywhere same went for cape cod bay. Last year no macks no bait less fish people cry crash. Fish need a sustainable food supply to survive if there no food why stay in one area. They go were the food is.

A lot more at play here than just bait.

All the pogies stay south while we have sandeels.

Not true at all. You are way off on the pogies. Narragansett Bay had more pogies and they stayed longer than anytime in the past 40 years. The banning of the pogie boats from the upper Bay, EG, Bristol and the Providence River had a dramatic effect on the numbers of pogies. Hell, EG Bay had millions of adult pogies into November.

The Bass are in trouble, have been in trouble for 6 years and it will continue to get worse. I lived thru the moratorium in the 80s and helped with the recovery. I'm now 64 and probably will not live long enough to see another recovery.

Folks just really need to know what going on here with the bass. Many just see the bass as another species of fish. But the Striper is our thing, is what we do.
There are those out there that don't believe the bass are in trouble. What kind of denial is this? Why are some so resistant to see what's going on with the Striper?

I do not disagree that we have a decline in the number of fish.

But I do agree bait matters, and where there is food you will find fish.

But over the past 5-6 years, where have all the baby bunker been, we have not seen a huge fall run of fish in most of those states for many years. But back 6-10 years ago we had baby bunker everywhere. I can remember year after year going to the Vineyard and having so much baby bunker you could walk on it and the fishing at that time was awesome.

5-6 years ago we had so many big pogies in the harbor you could have walked on them and were pulling fish over the rail every day 20-35 lb fish and releasing them back.

There were 4 Pogies boats that went back into business a few years ago for one season and whiped boston harbor, salem harbor and a few other places clean out of pogies, the next season we had hardly any and it took us 4 hours of netting just to get enough to fish with for a day. so were are all the baby bunker????

I have seen alot of mackerel the past several years, and herring in balls like no other but there is something that has happened the past several years that we have not had that sustainable bait in the later part of the season,

I also want to know WHY BYCATCH IS not counted as lost numbers of fish. You have draggers and trawler putting bycatch over the rail all day long, as well as long liners, not just Stripers but everything!!! Why is that not counted in all of the loss of species factor!!!!

The cod are in trouble, Haddock is not as good as it was, they have even increased the quota on dogfish so they are eating less fish as well, so why is it that those numbers are not counted toward declines in fisheries???


I read a book entitled, " COD" a few years back. The Cod of today are just a smidgen of what they were many moons ago. I'll include in your list, Flounder, Whiting and Ling(Silver Hake). And the latter were caught as a child the size of baseball bats.

The ones that take it all do so because this is their livelihood. This is what they do. It's an old way of life, a way of life that doesn't fit into the ways of today. Resistant to change, is what it is.
Just think about how this is. Stripers dwindling down, bait being eliminated from areas, yet the boats go about their business like all is well. What is this? Not caring? I think it's folks just doing what they always done because this is what they do.

I read a book entitled, " COD" a few years back. The Cod of today are just a smidgen of what they were many moons ago. I'll include in your list, Flounder, Whiting and Ling(Silver Hake). And the latter were caught as a child the size of baseball bats.

The ones that take it all do so because this is their livelihood. This is what they do. It's an old way of life, a way of life that doesn't fit into the ways of today. Resistant to change, is what it is.
Just think about how this is. Stripers dwindling down, bait being eliminated from areas, yet the boats go about their business like all is well. What is this? Not caring? I think it's folks just doing what they always done because this is what they do.

This sums it up. Humans are a rapacious lot. Any species of plant or animal that can be eaten or turned into money will be cleaned out unless enforceable laws prevent it.

Not sure what happened to the first link but try the link below and select "catch" query. You should be able to get the tables I posted for each state.

You really need to look at the ASMFC tables closely. The 2006 to2011 data shows about a 33% decrease in recreational kept but then it shows about a 75% decrease in the release numbers. If you add the C&R numbers together you see a decrease of about 70% decrease. This is on page 18 of the 2011 assessment. If you look at the table on page 19 you will see that the states at the North and South ends of the range have seen the biggest drops.

ASMFC says that stripers are not overfished because the stock numbers are above the SSB Threshold. Problem is in my opinion if we drop the stock to the Threshold number Maine, NH, Mass North Shore, VA, NC will not have a migratory stripe bass fishery.

Recreational Fisheries Statistics Queries (http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/st1/recreational/queries/index.html)

Thanks for the link Mike. I have been running cases looking at angler effort. Something of note is that I see a significant reduction in Angler Effort for striped bass. Just a few years ago it looks like Angler Effort was in the order of 50% higher than what it was in 2011. Based on that, I would certainly expect a significant reduction in striped bass caught and also caught and released. I can see why the data as you queried shows a big drop, as fewer people pursue fewer fish.

Ed B

Thanks for the link Mike. I have been running cases looking at angler effort. Something of note is that I see a significant reduction in Angler Effort for striped bass. Just a few years ago it looks like Angler Effort was in the order of 50% higher than what it was in 2011. Based on that, I would certainly expect a significant reduction in striped bass caught and also caught and released. I can see why the data as you queried shows a big drop, as fewer people pursue fewer fish.

Ed B

I pulled the data from their site and calculated "Stripers per Trip" to account for the decline in fishing effort. The results still show a decline underway but it doesn't look as dramatic. Another trend that came out of this is the increasing percentage of fish that are harvested. This is not surprising given the big decline in small fish over the past few years.

We had Paul Diadoti as guest speaker at the SBCA meeting last night and according to him stocks are very healthy for larger fish. The concern is the last 6-7 year class of new & schoolies have been pretty bad, a lot not to be found and a lot died off though last years class was very good.
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Two years ago I personally told him this is the scenario that he would be looking at. He just shrugged and made a note.
From just another irrelevant old fart who spends a lot of time on the water. :confused:

The results still show a decline underway but it doesn't look as dramatic.

Follow the curve. About 2 or 3 more seasons until we are back to 1984 levels. Not a pretty picture.

Thanks for the link Mike. I have been running cases looking at angler effort. Something of note is that I see a significant reduction in Angler Effort for striped bass. Just a few years ago it looks like Angler Effort was in the order of 50% higher than what it was in 2011. Based on that, I would certainly expect a significant reduction in striped bass caught and also caught and released. I can see why the data as you queried shows a big drop, as fewer people pursue fewer fish.

Ed B

I guess you also have to look at why the effort numbers are so much lower. Last season on most nights I would only see a couple of people fishing, normally the same two guys. A few years ago it was normal to run into a dozen or more fisherman each night. During the day there was always some bait fisherman out but last year very few. The reason being is there just were to few fish around. Many of the people I knew who fish Maine, NH and Mass North shore have either stopped or greatly reduced their trips.

What is also happening is people like me are now making more trips to the canal and the cape. So as the fish range decreases you can expect to see an increase in the number of people fishing those areas.

Last year's good YOY will provide plenty of fish in two to three years. The issue will be quality. It will be a decade before those fish are worth catching. What is left out there now will be long gone under current rules. So unnecessary, so stupid, so predictable.

What is also happening is people like me are now making more trips to the canal and the cape. So as the fish range decreases you can expect to see an increase in the number of people fishing those areas.

For the first time in my life, I stopped fishing the Canal before Columbus Day, last fall. There were some fish to be caught, but it just wasn't worth the effort.

Even as late as 2009, I had 50-60 fish nights early in the fall run.

Guys I know who hit it hard every night between mid-September and the start of bird season had the worst fall of the last 25 years.

Last year no macks no bait less fish people cry crash. Fish need a sustainable food supply to survive if there no food why stay in one area. They go were the food is.
No macks? There were thick schools of macks off the Race for almost the entire season. By your theory, we should have had more stripers than we knew what to do with.

Me thinks there's more to it than just bait.

There were Macks all over the North Shore for pretty much the entire summer last year

Just wondering - How has the Mass surfcasting been if you take the Canal out of the equation for the last few seasons? I stopped going on my annual trip to the Cape about 3-4 years back.

The RI surf where I fish has been hit or miss the last few years. We have plenty of bait and lots of bass at times - but also plenty of bait with no bass at other times.

DZ

generally speaking south side of the cape and north into bh were ok during the spring for me, nothing regularly over 20# though. sever lack of small fish as well from what others tell me especially along nauset and the lower cape probably alot to do with the seal population explosion. nonexistant in the fall for me and my two regular fishing friends, it was depressing. my 2 cents

Now add the cost of gas .

with less bass / guys are going to be alot less likely to ride around every night & I saw it last year / on how few boats were OTW during prime fishing times .

I,ve talked to quite a few people that are looking @ Freshwater ............ Much ofmy Schoolie guy will work in F/W & / even thro I thought Id never use it again / I kept my freshwater gear .

Many of you are talking about bait being a huge factor on the bass .
I believe it has some effect / But I think that has more to do with where the bass that [are] here go
Ton of bait at the tuna grounds / lots of large / Yet BB was very slow .
BI was & has been Hot in RI ............. Except for small at B/R & Watch Hill .the rest of the state pretty much sucked on a daily basis .
As I posted earlier / besides . a numbers game .........too many fisherman >< not enough fish .
no one in any of their posts .have mentioned anything about what I said earlier .
Which is very clear if you opening your eyes ................................. currently the Chessie is a sewer pit / with mico bacteria increasing // farmers still being allowed to have fertilizer & chicken #^&#^&#^&#^& seeping into the water everyday & now micro has now been found in other species besides Stripers .
lets not forget the miles of dead zones .. zero , none, nada ..live of anykind .
then what few survive .still have to make it thru miles of illegal nets & legal trawling ;
Lets throw in a Black market .................................................. .............. ALL of this & you thing a good year class is going to make a difference . First .. I heard that number was taken by a different method or location <<<< not sure & even if it was right / look at the chances of their survival rate .
IMO ,the only way to save the Striper this time is {IN ANY ORDER} Crack down on the pollutors . stop the insanse fishing antics/ methods / etc Both legal & illegal that goes on up & down the coast / But mostly Mayland to NC ;
Where killing large up here / because 90% 0f the smalls are gone . they are killing evrything .
I,m telling @ the current rate . it will be a forced closure in 3 - 4 years . & its not going to rebound like last time .... In the 80,s ..................most of the damage was done [fishing] /
This time add up all of the above & any other thing that could hurt & that sums it .
oH,,, throw in seals & commorants as added bonus .

Sorry, that's just not true. In terms of the overall garm assessment, yes, its being used. In terms of the specific April data, its been revisited. One set of data does not an entire model make :)
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The ONLY thing that matters is the stock assessment, everything else is based on that, and they have not changed the numbers in the stock assessment.

& you believe their assessment of the stock ????:confused:

There the ones . that were going to increase the commercial harvest , etc
Until both Commercial & rec went B/S ................................. then they did a 180 reverse & said the bass were in trouble & they laid out plans for changes in the current laws to reduce the catch ........ either by size or tonnage or both .
Then a [HAPPENING} . a good year class in 2011 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scrap that plan ..everything is status quo ........... Just figure the opposite of whatever they tell ya :uhuh:

Ton of bait at the tuna grounds / lots of large / Yet BB was very slow .

buzzards bay was slow, there were pogies unmolested in the same spots for a couple days at a time.

McFly- GAMEFISH STATUS and 1 @36"

McFy- GAMEFISH STATUS and 1 @36"

X2

You can't have both.
Gamefish status will mean Zero take
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Gamefish status would work but the problem is too many greedy types that don't wanna work for the future it's just here n now for them.Like a few other old farts here I've been through the moratorium. Still fished but got real good at release methods.Tagged a load of fish for ALS an others. We still had some fish up here in Maine. I still had stripers to land during the Derby. Some very impressive-an over 50lb-that all got released. Now very few fish up here an the Derby striper numbers are only what they are as the size is down to 32 in.A size many of us would never keep unless dieing let alone weigh in.For 4 yrs it gets less n less. Some of you boat guys luck out from time to time but up here it's just plain close to done.Bait all over the place just enjoyin the day as nothing is there to feed on them. My point is is that it is what it is an are we gonna do something about it or just keep blamin an moanin an groanin about things.
Catch numbers need to go down,Gamfish would be nice to see but too much greed there. Bag an size limits need to be changed. Fewer fish caught. bigger penalties for violators to include loss of all gear. repeat offenders do time.
You wann see the real economic affect. check the value of all your gear and multipy it by 10,000.Double that number and do the same then cut the ist number in half an do the same. Add those figures an then multiply it by the states that have stripers. 1st number the middle ,second the hard cores an third the weekend types that only fish a few times.We spend huge on our passion.Those are lowball numbers. So lets spend some to fix the problem before all the gear just collects dust an our memories are all we have left of a passion we all share.

You can't have both.
Gamefish status will mean Zero take
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i guess that depends on your definiton of game fish status. for example- north carolinas definition is what most gamefish status proponents support.

"Recreational anglers want the state to classify striped bass as gamefish, meaning no one could legally catch them for commercial sale. If the bill passes, those fish could be caught only with a hook and line for personal consumption."

Don that's the way it's been up here in Maine since the 60's. Zero take means moratorium.

You can't have both.
Gamefish status will mean Zero take
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If Zero Take keeps the stocks healthy, I'd gladly support it.

For those of you who didn't fish during the last crash, let me provide some perspective.

The guy that got me into striper fishing in the late 70s was a long-time shore fisherman. He entered a tournament in the late 70s along with about 1000 others. There was no prize awarded for third place because only two fish were caught.

[QUOTE=stripermaineiac;921120]Zero take means moratorium.

i'd support a mortatorium right now- c&r only for a few years. a bunch of us older guys have been warning about history repeating itself. welcome to the past :(. like coleman said- surfcasters are the canaries in the mine.

denial- ain't just a river in egypt.

If Zero Take keeps the stocks healthy, I'd gladly support it.

For those of you who didn't fish during the last crash, let me provide some perspective.

The guy that got me into striper fishing in the late 70s was a long-time shore fisherman. He entered a tournament in the late 70s along with about 1000 others. There was no prize awarded for third place because only two fish were caught.

Myself, Clammer, DZ, Afterhours, Stripermaniac and some of the other "antiques" on this board have been preaching this scenario for 5 or 6 years. No one in a position to do anything wants to listen.

Myself, Clammer, DZ, Afterhours, Stripermaniac and some of the other "antiques" on this board have been preaching this scenario for 5 or 6 years. No one in a position to do anything wants to listen.

Interesting to note that some of the biggest obstacles to getting anything done during the last crash was not only traditional commercial interests - but Rod & Reel quasi commercials who right until the end claimed there was not a problem.

DZ

Stripers forever have been trying to do this i dont think we will see this happen.before it is too late too many greedy comm guys and rec vuys alike that put a higher value on table fair then on the fishery as a whole . This needs to be done at the federal level as done.by state it will just let a different state do.more damage
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So Rec guys that like to keep a fish for the table are greedy now....hmmm....I always thought that was a basic human need......to put food on the table.

I have no issue w/ the Gamefish status and 1 at 36....but the whole "Holier Than Thou" catch and release crap drives me friggin nuts.

Myself, Clammer, DZ, Afterhours, Stripermaniac and some of the other "antiques" on this board have been preaching this scenario for 5 or 6 years. No one in a position to do anything wants to listen.

If you go to any of the striper web sites there all like this one. Some think everything is fine with the stripers and others see the stocks heading towards a crash. The same holds true for just about all of the fishing clubs. None of these groups can come to a consensus on the topic so nothing happens. This makes it easy for ASMFC to continue along their present path.

There is only one well know group out there that is focused on reducing the catch and that is Stripers Forever. They may have their faults but at least they are working on the issue. SF also understands that there is little chance of ASMFC doing anything until the problem is so bad there is no other answer. Need to focus on this through your state representatives so that they put pressure on their ASMFC reps and pass laws to protect the fish. Even if new laws do not get passed they still send a message so something might be done before one of these laws does make it through.

So in my opinion if your really concerned join SF and support them. Then write letters to your reps.

Not all recs are greedy but the guys who fish 6 days a week and take home there 2 every day thats greedy you seem to.take offence to.calling people greedy to.me that may make.you one of fhe.guys i take.fish home.for the table 2 or 3 a year
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for the record....I kept one last year.

usually I keep 2-4 a year

But if somebody is keeping more, and they are getting eaten ...who is anyone to judge them and call them greedy. They aren't doing anything illegal.

just cause it isnt illegal doesnt mean its good but hey i guess we an all fish for scup and skate when stripers get wiped out and all the pretty plugs you build and.crappy ones i.build we be useless
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Whatever...you keep doing your thing and I'll keep doing mine

:smash: They aren't doing anything illegal.

I am suprised it took this long for it to show up in this thread. :smash:

I didn't realize that calling people names and being condescending was a valid strategy for protecting the stocks. Silly me

I would have thought working together to reach a common ground would be the way to proceed in a healthy fishery...again...silly me.

I've been on this board for 9 years and every year its the same crap....

"You suck because you keep them"....and "You suck because you don't want to let us keep them."

100's of anglers blaming everybody who doesn't see things there way instead of getting together and putting there collective heads together to try and solve the problem.

8473 members of this board, who, if they could get on the same page might actually be able to accomplish something.

20 years from now I'll be on this board and everybody will still be talking chit to each other....and still nothing will be getting done.

Assenine

I've posted this before and swear this WILL be the last time... I've seen this before... yup I fished through the 70's...80's.. 90's and beyond... i fish from a boat... but where i fish... it's just the same as surf fishing.. I ply the same water...often SHALLOWER than you surf men do....I see what you see...and I don't like it.

the first time around when everyone was sounding the alarm.. i was young.. i was catching fish.. some small ones but some real monsters too... in my young eyes there was nothing wrong and i thought the alarmists were just a bunch of tree hugging wanna-be's...my youthfull, inexperienced eyes could not see or comprehend the whole picture... fishing virtualy around the clock , combined with youthfull excitement gave me a leg up on the competition..funny how aging and wisdome puts things in perspective... IMHO.. I fish the outer range of the great striper migration ( Plum Island Ma.) there are very few nights I cant find a few large.. and if i miss one night.. I'll get them the next ...last year, the murmurs of how bad the fishing was at PI were begginning as soon as mid June....... we saw plenty of large last year... at times... some nights we quit long before they stopped feeding.. we had more medium fish than in recent years... .. truely a positive sign and glimmer of hope for the future, but small fish were, by reasonable account non exsistant...and you need small to make big...there should be far more schoolies than large or mediums and it simply is not the case... anywhere!

these fish are no doubt in trouble... and there is no way around it.. if the future genrerations are going to have fish to catch.. the fisherman fishing today need to act...

There are anglers up and down the coast, like myself, that with local knowledge will always eek out a few fish.. until there are no more... hopefully I/we will never see that day arrive...

My.02
roc

Couldn't agree more. Well said!
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for the record....I kept one last year.

usually I keep 2-4 a year

But if somebody is keeping more, and they are getting eaten ...who is anyone to judge them and call them greedy. They aren't doing anything illegal.

I know a lot of those guys. They spend hours on the phone after every tide trying to give their fish away. The guys who take 2 fish every day aren't doing it to put food on their tables, or on anyone in particular's table. They're doing it to parade them around and look like highliners--to stoke their ego.

Here's what happens---some people take their fish. They butcher filleting them, and a lot goes to waste. Then they take the fillets and stick them in the freezer. Come January, they discover the fish they froze in June, unwrap it, and find that it's covered with freezer burn because it wasn't packaged the right way to freeze. And then it goes right in the garbage. :doh:

just cause it isnt illegal doesnt mean its good but hey i guess we an all fish for scup and skate when stripers get wiped out and all the pretty plugs you build and.crappy ones i.build we be useless
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This time, we won't even have the bluefish around, like we did in the 70s and early 80s. :(

I could go out almost ant time of the day back then, cast jigs crimped directly to 80# wire, and catch all the bluefish I wanted, in the Canal.

I didn't realize that calling people names and being condescending was a valid strategy for protecting the stocks. Silly me

100's of anglers blaming everybody who doesn't see things there way instead of getting together and putting there collective heads together to try and solve the problem.

Assenine

I didn't see anyone on this board call anyone names. A couple made reference to behaviors that were, in their opinions, greedy.

Second point: I don't ever see how things will get solved when the opinion that something is ok because it is legal is the rule. Those of us who believe the law is wrong, and that fisherman should be more conservative in spite of the law, have the right to those opinions, and the right to say it in a public forum.

Second point: I don't ever see how things will get solved when the opinion that something is ok because it is legal is the rule.

Because, unfortunate as it may be...it isn't illegal. so if you want to initiate the kind of change your looking at....you need to change the rule.

and to change the rule you have to work together for a common ground....not point fingers.

people who fish and keep fish look at the other side (C&R) as being greedy for trying to take away from them.

so Who's Right? Who's Wrong?

Calling people greedy for doing something that is perfectly legal for them to do is not going to foster any kind of cooperation....its only going to build walls and no one will give an inch for a common goal.

like I said....20 years from now this argument will still be waging and nothing will change, because nobody will give the 10-20% that needs to be given to make a change.

Instead of Game Fish and 1 @ 36" why not go 50% reduction for commercial take and 1 @ 36"....doesn't that cut the take pretty much in 1/2 and allow both parties to do their part AND keep doing what they currently do....only in a reduced manner that will help the stocks

not saying thats the answer...but for anything to be accomplished there needs to be give and take on everybody's part

Myself, Clammer, DZ, Afterhours, Stripermaniac and some of the other "antiques" on this board have been preaching this scenario for 5 or 6 years. No one in a position to do anything wants to listen.

add me to that list ,, That's why I mostly fish the funnel (canal ).. better odds than beach fishing . I fished through the last crash too . Watched it thrive through c&r ,, watched it decline again ..

Sorry Tagger. I forgot you.

...and to the Dad Fisherman. I don't want to start a flame war but your attitude is part of the problem. You may think you will be here in 20 years and the same thing will be discussed but you are wrong. If things keep going the way they are now, there will be no Stripers in 20 years. I'm pretty sure I'll be dead (84?, No way) but you will be fishing for Scup.

Wake up and realize no one is saying don't keep a fish for the table. You are missing the whole point. What we are saying is the 2, 28" is just plain wrong. A commercial season ANYWHERE is just plain wrong. Non-gamefish status for stripers is just plain wrong.

Now, go out and kill your 2 28" fish and don't bitch when there aren't anymore.

The rules and regs are up to this point, have shown us they don't work. One more thing, how many wait for the schoolies every season just to catch 'em and toss 'em back? How many of these schoolies don't survive?

.

...and to the Dad Fisherman. I don't want to start a flame war but your attitude is part of the problem.

Now, go out and kill your 2 28" fish and don't bitch when there aren't anymore. .

didn't you just post more pictures of big dead bass than anyone else in the 2011 Fishy Photos Thread?...shoudn't we all start with ourselves????:uhuh:

didn't you just post more pictures of big dead bass than anyone else in the 2011 Fishy Photos Thread?...shoudn't we all start with ourselves????:uhuh:

I believe I posted 6 fish. Those were taken by my nephews at different times during the season. Personally, I didn't kill a bass last year.

You are also missing the point. I didn't say we shouldn't take bass. I said 2, 28" is wrong. I've done this for 45 years or so and I have never kept 2 fish in a day and I never kill anything under 34". Have I caught and killed my share of big fish? Yep.

The point of the whole dissertation is that the Striper should be a game fish. EVERYWHERE!!!

That would put an end to the wholesale slaughter taking place in NC, SC, VA etc.

I believe I posted 6 fish. Those were taken by my nephews at different times during the season. Personally, I didn't kill a bass last year.




if you hooked up with bass, you killed bass...check the numbers on mortality of released fish....


you seem very passionate, maybe release those fish and post pictures of you and your nephews releasing the fish and set a good example for you nephews...and others :)...it would be more in line with the rhetoric

My point about 2 fish was completely missed by evrryone except Mike

I dont have an issue with the one a.week or so guy keeping 2 fish gling home eating some give some to a freind but day after day you see guys taking home 2 fish there is no.way a guy is eating 10 fish a week just because he cqn keep 2 a day he is still being greedy
Charter boats.even worse 3 guys go out on a charter and there 10 fish when the boat.comes.back in because there were 5 guys on the boat total that there is greedy we as humans are greedy and destroy everything
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if you hooked up with bass, you killed bass...check the numbers on mortality of released fish....


you seem very passionate, maybe release those fish and post pictures of you and your nephews releasing the fish and set a good example for you nephews...and others :)...it would be more in line with the rhetoric
If there's any rhetoric here it's that responsibility as a rec is to keep what you can eat...rather than keeping fish simply because you want to impress somebody else or perhaps your self. And that the commercial harvest isn't sustainable under most circumstances.

For another fisherman to play the "all fishing is killing" card a on a fishing website is patently hypocritical...it shows you're just trying to provoke somebody with a hell of a lot more fishing wisdom than you in an otherwise serious thread...perhaps it's just placing a spotlight on your lack of maturity.

As someone who appears to regard themselves as a "conservative" I would have wagered you'd place more value in the tried and true experience of those before them.

-spence

For another fisherman to play the "all fishing is killing" card a on a fishing website is patently hypocritical...it shows you're just trying to provoke somebody with a hell of a lot more fishing wisdom than you in an otherwise serious thread...perhaps it's just placing a spotlight on your lack of maturity.

-spence
I think he just forgot that we aren't in the Political Forum. :buds:

I didn't realize we had so many members of Stripers Forever on this board :yak5:

I didn't realize we had so many members of Stripers Forever on this board :yak5:

I think it is more that you have some guys that know what is happening and don't want to see it go down that way... again.

For another fisherman to play the "all fishing is killing" card a on a fishing website is patently hypocritical...it shows you're just trying to provoke somebody with a hell of a lot more fishing wisdom than you in an otherwise serious thread...perhaps it's just placing a spotlight on your lack of maturity.

Spence

what's the matter...bored Spence?


I'm hardly an "all fishing is killing type"...I love grilled bass....to fish all season long and claim you didn't personally kill any stripers hardly exhibits fishing wisdom, posting pictures of big dead stripers on one thread and then whining on and on on another thread about the decline of the stripers is....... well.....and then blaming it on the little kids??? and your take on this definitely demonstrates your own lack of maturity....love you too:love:

I think it is more that you have some guys that know what is happening and don't want to see it go down that way... again.


BINGO! We have Bingo!

I'm hardly an "all fishing is killing type"...I love grilled bass....to fish all season long and claim you didn't personally kill any stripers hardly exhibits fishing wisdom, posting pictures of big dead stripers on one thread and then whining on and on on another thread about the decline of the stripers is....... well.....and then blaming it on the little kids??? and your take on this definitely demonstrates your own lack of maturity....love you too:love:
Blame it on the little kids? I see you can't help it...

-spence

I think you are completely missing my point...I even said i was OK for 1 at 36....

my point is that nothing is ever going to change until everybody stops pointing fingers and starts to work together....only way anything will be done.

as seen here...people have been biatching about this issue for years and nothing ever changes.

I don't know where you got the "Go Kill your 2 at 28" from...because that certainly isn't me

Sorry Tagger. I forgot you.

...and to the Dad Fisherman. I don't want to start a flame war but your attitude is part of the problem. You may think you will be here in 20 years and the same thing will be discussed but you are wrong. If things keep going the way they are now, there will be no Stripers in 20 years. I'm pretty sure I'll be dead (84?, No way) but you will be fishing for Scup.

Wake up and realize no one is saying don't keep a fish for the table. You are missing the whole point. What we are saying is the 2, 28" is just plain wrong. A commercial season ANYWHERE is just plain wrong. Non-gamefish status for stripers is just plain wrong.

Now, go out and kill your 2 28" fish and don't bitch when there aren't anymore.

Found this interesting, it seems " legitimately "
out of 3997 bass permits,
70% claimed zero pounds reported.
96% claimed less than 2000 pounds reported.
154 permits took 56% of the fish.

After paying the help and other expenses, not a lot of people making some real coin here.

my point is that nothing is ever going to change until everybody stops pointing fingers and starts to work together....only way anything will be done.



and try to be consistent....you can't lecture the kids that we're on the verge or another moratorium as you are stacking cows in the cooler....well maybe you can:)

The rate this thread topic is going it will be about 15 pages in another week.
The majority recognize that stocks are decreasing to a potential collapse of sb. What cracks me up is the less then handful of people that attend the public hearings to voice their opinions.
The only time a large group are willing to get together if there is a large raffle or food, go figure.
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Found this interesting, it seems " legitimately "
out of 3997 bass permits,
70% claimed zero pounds reported.
96% claimed less than 2000 pounds reported.
154 permits took 56% of the fish.

After paying the help and other expenses, not a lot of people making some real coin here.

70% claimed zero pounds.
Wonder how many pounds went through the back door of a restaurant though.

Hence the "legitimately "
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

my point is that nothing is ever going to change until everybody stops pointing fingers and starts to work together....only way anything will be done.

I've read this sentiment from more than a few in this thread and just wanted to point out that it is totally unrealistic to hope you are going to come to some sort of consensus on here, and then make headway as a group. The only way to bring about change is to find a group or groups that are already like minded and involved, or to simply move ahead on your own (maybe with a few like minded friends) and call and write your State Rep, Congressman, or Senator, and lobby as best you can for your beliefs. Trying to get a consensus here is just waste of time.

LOL So I'll ask the question again. What are WE GONNA DO ABOUT IT?I've just about gotten to zero as far as fish I keep.We up here in Maine set a very high bench mark in the 60's. Gamefish an no spear fishing for striped bass. No in shore netting and stripers aren't allowed as bycatch.Yet our fishing has been trashed time n again with the destructive practices south of us.we can't go much farther up here but the ball is in your court.I can preach,moan n groan all i want but I can't do much more.Same with most fishermen up here as our catch numbers are just plain pittiful. I fish as hard if not harder than most on this site.I've gotten so good with releasing stripers that I've had 25+lb fish follow me in the shallows for a half hr after releasing them like a damn puppy dog.Yet so many of the hard cores that i associate with still do what I did in the 80's.We need to stop or loose it. those that think it's still roses have a very rude awakening.As long as there's a bounty-food or money- on stripers we have a moritorium sooner than later.Sad part is that many of our friends that make plugs or own takle shops will be out of business next time around due to OUR collective ignorance.Like I said i still caught stripers all through the decline in the 70's an 80's. i'm a pretty good striper fisherman. I just learned to put them back an when things slowed I about stopped keeping any.A load of us did.

My point about 2 fish was completely missed by evrryone except Mike

I dont have an issue with the one a.week or so guy keeping 2 fish gling home eating some give some to a freind but day after day you see guys taking home 2 fish there is no.way a guy is eating 10 fish a week just because he cqn keep 2 a day he is still being greedy
Charter boats.even worse 3 guys go out on a charter and there 10 fish when the boat.comes.back in because there were 5 guys on the boat total that there is greedy we as humans are greedy and destroy everything
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Derek, you know this, and I'll say it for those who don't: there are guys on the Canal who will go out on the morning tide, keep 2 big bass, take them home, and return on the afternoon tide and take 2 more.

Derek, you know this, and I'll say it for those who don't: there are guys on the Canal who will go out on the morning tide, keep 2 big bass, take them home, and return on the afternoon tide and take 2 more.

They must have HUUUUUUUGE freezers! :rotf2:

I don't need NOAA to tell me that.

Nation On Arterial Agenda idiots

When I was a kid it felt great when I brought my neighbors a big fish or a couple fillets.One day I realized I had to stop as I was hurting the fish. it's part of the learning curve. We ALL go through it. Catch n release used to mean you tied a bad not,had cheap gear or screwed up somehow LOL.None of us should critisize those who haven't learned what we have the hard way. Those of us that learned the hard way just need to keep teaching how to make things get better.Those that haven't learned need to understand that we are serious about how bad it got but it can be fixed.We're not trying to take anything away from you just get you to help us save what we have so you can teach YOUR grandkids how fun it is to chase Striped Bass an how great it is to meet friends while doing it.

Mike and what bothers me most is they sit in a parking lot and bitch when they dont catch a fish
I still fish at night till sunrise i dlnt fish tournys. I may put a.few inthe cooler a year but getting out is my stress releif
Unfortunately there will come.a time when there will be very few fish the way things are going and the good part about that is there will be nobody on my rock when i go out to get away
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They must have HUUUUUUUGE freezers! :rotf2:

Id fare to.wager some never get cleaned as people look to give em away cause they already had there hero ride in the morning
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Who are we suposed to believe? NOAA or the ASMFC and the DMF?
Click here and look up bass.
Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (http://www.asmfc.org/)


Acording to the ASMFC the stock is well above the Target biomass.
Acording to the head of the DMF, paul didoti the stock is above its target biomass and the DMF was even proposing increasing the comercial quota.
Acording to the Head of the DMF AND the ASMFC the biomass of commercial size fish is at an all time high, there was a bumper crop of young produced in 2010 that "should", pending survival, start yearly migrations. They admit there are not allot of "schoolies" around because there was a low survival rate for that year class. That is why there are no massive blitzes of schoolies tearing up and down the coast. Remember all those schoolies from a few years ago? Well there all commercial size now and there hanging just out of reach of the seals. Somewhat a nuisance to the Tuna fishermen often hard to get away from.
So just because surf fishing sucks and there not stacked up in all the usual spots doesn't mean they are on the verge of another collapse.
Im not jumping on the stop commercial fishing bandwagen based on NOAA's stock assessment. Or poor surf reports.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Who are we suposed to believe? NOAA or the ASMFC and the DMF?
Click here and look up bass.
Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (http://www.asmfc.org/)


Acording to the ASMFC the stock is well above the Target biomass.
Acording to the head of the DMF, paul didoti the stock is above its target biomass and the DMF was even proposing increasing the comercial quota.
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Yea ,,,and everything was Honky Dory the last time the species collapsed,, when his predecessor Phil Coates was running the show . Instead of owning that they screwed up, they blamed pollution for the sudden collapse .. I was there ,, I use to go to those BS meetings ,, They like to say Bio Mass .. They say it so much you get dizzy .. Hi Mike ;-)

Hi Ed.
Plastic-boat fish don't count
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No derek there will always be some of old timers on those rocks. might take us a little longer to get there but trust me we will be there. we were there through the last moratorium an we'll be there through the next one god willing.Shame is a lot of the -nimrods,googans,fly by nighters an week end worriors won't be.They won't even realize what they lost an missed.

LOL Also who gives a da-- what the political agancies have to say. I'll take you to some of my secret spots that used to have loads of fish. MT now.if you can't take the word of those of us that have been chasing stripers for some 40 to 60 yrs over these idiot agencies run by people that have never walked a boulder filled beach or been in a blitz of fish over 30 lb you deserve what you make of things to come.been chasing stripers for almost 50 yrs. the only scientist I've ever seen at a fishing spot were those that Bob Pond,Al anderson,Bob Boulard,myself an some of the other old timers took there.Go ahead be stupid like we were just don't complain after things get shut down. we can make changes ourselves that will make a difference.Our choice.

Many are too young to remember when there were hardly any bass in the late 70's and early 80's. I remember those one fish years.

Do we have to have it in writing to make and effect a change? Many are in denial about the bass being in trouble. Many see the lack of bass in their waters, but will still say, "there is no problem".
What kind of thinking is this?

Those of us that learned the hard way just need to keep teaching how to make things get better. We're not trying to take anything away from you just get you to help us save what we have so you can teach YOUR grandkids how fun it is to chase Striped Bass an how great it is to meet friends while doing it.

you make a lot of good points, it's about teaching and changing the culture more than railing "1@36" and "gamefish status" which have had little or no effect apparently on both the regs and the culture.....most of the local clubs have a couple of monthly meetings before the season starts and shops and show exhibitors are gearing up..... I'd guess that for many the focus is on how to hammer more fish rather than conservation and good fishing practices, everyone wants to point out how everyone else has it all wrong when the best way to long term improvement begins with individuals and the people that they interact regularly and how they view their part in all of this rather than regulations and pontifications. A lot of the obvious problems have been mentioned and in most cases they'll be improved sooner through a culture change rather than hoping for some magical change in status and in the long run, whether the concerns are overblown... or if a problem does exist and there is a significant rebound, an improved culture will help sustain it rather than simply run it right back into the ground....or sea....as it were:)

Hi Ed.
Plastic-boat fish don't count
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haha ... I was wondering about that . I guess they don't .. I'm enjoying all the new access though . Able to fish Cohasset now .. They like to keep us away from their women .

Pollution, water quality issues, tournaments, changes in migration paths, trawling, netting, better electronics, bait, anglers, politicians, greed, publicity, carelessness when handling c&r fish are all to blame.

I'm relatively young and its easy to see its def. not what it used to be. Unfortunately many of the factors above will be difficult, if not impossible to correct. In a perfect world I'd love to end all charter boats, commercial fishing, pollution, useless killing, etc. and go 100% C&R. Look what happened to the atlantic salmon fishery in massachusetts. CT and Merrimack Rivers were one of the most epic atlantic salmon runs in the world and they are pretty much extinct now. Set up a couple dams to warm the water up and ruin spawning habitat, pollute the water to standards we deem are clean, hammer the fish in the open ocean in their summering areas and set up nets across the river at the mouth... in a short 200 year timeframe the fish are gone. GONE and never to come back unless we remove all the dams and stop the heavy fishing pressure.

Right now, what we are seeing with the striped bass is how much we are impacting them year to year. We know that a few good commercial outfits can clean out an area over a couple years. Recs lining the canal are doing damage may-july. Spawning habitats are in trouble. WE found the winter over areas and are pounding them. Stripers are much more resilient than salmon, but still. There is only so much!

Who are we suposed to believe? NOAA or the ASMFC and the DMF?
Click here and look up bass.
Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (http://www.asmfc.org/)


Acording to the ASMFC the stock is well above the Target biomass.
Acording to the head of the DMF, paul didoti the stock is above its target biomass and the DMF was even proposing increasing the comercial quota.
Acording to the Head of the DMF AND the ASMFC the biomass of commercial size fish is at an all time high, there was a bumper crop of young produced in 2010 that "should", pending survival, start yearly migrations. They admit there are not allot of "schoolies" around because there was a low survival rate for that year class. That is why there are no massive blitzes of schoolies tearing up and down the coast. Remember all those schoolies from a few years ago? Well there all commercial size now and there hanging just out of reach of the seals. Somewhat a nuisance to the Tuna fishermen often hard to get away from.
So just because surf fishing sucks and there not stacked up in all the usual spots doesn't mean they are on the verge of another collapse.
Im not jumping on the stop commercial fishing bandwagen based on NOAA's stock assessment. Or poor surf reports.
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I don,t believe any of them, but I do believe the people who are out fishing all year whether from shore or boat.
I see less fish than just a few years ago.

I,m sure it,s very complex the reasons for all this, bottom line is we need to act now, not sit back and let it collapse.
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It's like spending your retirement now, though you haven't contributed anything into it for the last six years.

A common human axiom is " Well, I didn't see that coming "

Do you know the difference between an optimist and a pessimist ?
The pessimist is better informed ! :)

[QUOTE=scottw;921350]you make a lot of good points, it's about teaching and changing the culture more than railing "1@36" and "gamefish status" which have had little or no effect apparently on both the regs and the culture....

yes it's ALL about teaching the culture. as in teaching the culture about gamefish status and changing rec regs. this would would have a monumental effect on this fishery.....in a good way :).

How about this. Forget game fish status and make it illegal to fish. Then a few preaching game fish status and also happen to profit by selling their plugs will be out of business also.
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C&R would be fine with me. The typical guy who hires a charter for fillets/meatpacking wouldn't like it, but many of those guys could care less about the fish they catch. They don't respect the fish like some guys here do. 90% of the guys who take those charters wouldnt stand a chance catching those fish on their own. Theyre too lazy to maintain a boat themselves and dont want to put in the hardwork to learn what the fish do. When those fish are gone, they move on to another hobby without a care. But they are part of the rec equation - you got a pro headhunter putting these guys on fish every day.

Numbers are down. Anybody that keeps a log, or puts in about the same amount of time, in the same places, year after year can testify. I think "we" are the best indicator of what is going on. I think "we" are the people that need to pledge to release more fish. I know I have. This is where it starts. Forums like this that reach the masses. Maybe it's the pain meds talking, but how about an "I will" for all who agree to stop keeping as many fish. Let's face it. Striped bass are our passion. Otherwise we wouldn't be participants in a great site like this. If the trend continues, there won't be a need for a site like this. Therefor, I'll start. I will.

How about this. Forget game fish status and make it illegal to fish. Then a few preaching game fish status and also happen to profit by selling their plugs will be out of business also.
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gee ronnie...really :rotf2:, i care MORE about this fishery than striper plugs- not my fault the the health of the fishery and my business go hand in hand. i can just as easily build bft, musky, lmb, costa rica plugs and probablly make more cake. i would not go out of bussines, how about you?:rotf2: next.

How about this. Forget game fish status and make it illegal to fish. Then a few preaching game fish status and also happen to profit by selling their plugs will be out of business also.
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You're leaving out the part about you charter guys that walk the line of being a commercial entity regulated as recreational fishermen being SOL as well.

Forget Gamefish Status... 5 tags per license, 36" limit and call it a day. Even for someone terrible at cleaning a fish, 5 fish at 36" should get them at least 25-30lbs of meat per year. Few families are eating 30lbs of striped bass per year. And if they are, they should stop because the fish isn't even all that good for you with all the toxins and heavy metals.

How about this. Forget game fish status and make it illegal to fish. Then a few preaching game fish status and also happen to profit by selling their plugs will be out of business also.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Well if noaa/dmf/vatican don't do ANYTHING then all the comms and charters will be out of business.

You're leaving out the part about you charter guys that walk the line of being a commercial entity regulated as recreational fishermen being SOL as well.
.

Think we need to look at charters a little different. Like I said earlier I looking at them as bus drivers taking recreational fisherman out to the fish. When I was a kid in the late 50s there were 3 party boats working out of the NJ Highlands where the captains had been fisherman and changed their businesses over to running party boats. Pre 200 mile limits made it hard even than to make a living fishing. A hundred years earlier thousands of people could make their living from the sea but just like many other occupations technology changed all of that. Charters may be the answer for still being able to continue working at sea for many of the small boat fisherman. May not be their ideal job but it is a job. But of course if the stock dumps down then commercials, recs and plug makers are all out of work.

Who are we suposed to believe? NOAA or the ASMFC and the DMF?
Click here and look up bass.
Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (http://www.asmfc.org/)
Acording to the Head of the DMF AND the ASMFC the biomass of commercial size fish is at an all time high, there was a bumper crop of young produced in 2010 that "should", pending survival, start yearly migrations. They admit there are not allot of "schoolies" around because there was a low survival rate for that year class. That is why there are no massive blitzes of schoolies tearing up and down the coast. [/i][/size]


I guess the head of ASMFC isn't reading his own stock assessments because they show a big decrease since 2004 based on the 2011 report.

"Abundance and Biomass: Striped bass total abundance and biomass were estimated using the SCA model (Figures 7 and 8; Tables 11 and 12). Abundance increased steadily from 8.3 million fish in 1982 to a
peak of 67.5 million in 2004 then declined to 42.3 million fish in 2010. Abundance of striped bass age 8 and greater, representing approximately fish 28” and greater, was lowest in 1985 but then increased to a series high in 2004. Abundance of age 8+ fish decreased from 9.7 million fish in 2004 to 5.9 million fish
in 2010. Total biomass followed a similar pattern increasing from a low in 1984 to a peak of 111,877 mt in 2002. Biomass since 2002 has declined to 87,771 mt in 2010"

How about this. Forget game fish status and make it illegal to fish. Then a few preaching game fish status and also happen to profit by selling their plugs will be out of business also.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

So are you saying that if we make stripers a game fjsh that hou will goout of business sounds like a terrible business plan to me relying on a nonsustainable item for.a.ljving
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Atleast as a gamefish they may be.caught again
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

So are you saying that if we make stripers a game fjsh that hou will goout of business sounds like a terrible business plan to me relying on a nonsustainable item for.a.ljving
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device


No. I'm not one drinking the cool aid that things are as bad as these tree Huggers are preaching.
Also not talking out of both sides of my mouth.
We got some in this tread who have killed & sold fish for years (lots of species besides bass) and preaching about collapse.
Guess they found religion and are born again.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

No. I'm not one drinking the cool aid that things are as bad as these tree Huggers are preaching.
Also not talking out of both sides of my mouth.
We got some in this tread who have killed & sold fish for years (lots of species besides bass) and preaching about collapse.
Guess they found religion and are born again.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Some people learn from mistakes made in the past and others never learn and just keep repeating them.

Well Raider I've always kinda laughed at the boston Harbor charter idea of gut hook with a treble n relese. seen it too many times. Sad way to go it. Just remember that a change in tactics or gear goes a long way to sustainability.These fish aren't throw aways just to get a buck. I've had loads of tag returns over the years that came off eel caught fish an plug caught fish that were released.Al Anderson has done it for years while chartering an he's still out there doing it. He knows that every one that swims away he has a chance of hooking again in a few yrs.Keeps the charters happy.I've taken many people fishing over the yrs that went home with some sweet pictures an left the fish swimming. not a bad thing. A change here n there goes a long way. Denial got us the last moratorium. People hear about something like that they don't book charters cause they think you can't fish for stripers. You do a little conservation changes and advertise it an it goes a long way towards business.Plus it helps there to be fish to chase in the future.

Let's be clear about "the last time"

Unlimited daily take with an 18" minimum size, unlimited commercial season, with legal dragging and haul seining caused the last collapse. (Not to mention massive pollution in the Hudson and Cheasapeake spawning grounds).


That's a far cry from 2 @ 28".

And I realize they still use nets in N.C., and I think that's ridiculous. If commercial guys can't get their limit down there hook and line during those migrations, they should find another job.

No. I'm not one drinking the cool aid that things are as bad as these tree Huggers are preaching.
Also not talking out of both sides of my mouth.
We got some in this tread who have killed & sold fish for years (lots of species besides bass) and preaching about collapse.
Guess they found religion and are born again.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device


Let's say for the sake of arguing things aren't as bad as they are being made out to be, even still, wouldn't you as someone who relys on a fishery to make a living, want to make it sustainable so you can pass your business down to future generations? I don't get why would comm's and charter captains NOT want to do everything in their power to ensure they have a future making a living off the sea? Why the resistance? Why wouldn't you want to question if the stocks are in danger or not?

I'm gonna have to dig out the article from after the last crash where a charter captain regretted doing three 6 pack trips a day livelining bunker and piling big bass in the boat day after day. The super duper catch a pile of big fish charter guys are making a buck right now down south doing just that, you can see the pics on the internet in their ads.

If the 2772 permit holders who didn't sell one fish actually sold a few each, the season would be over in a week. Which would make the whole thing pointless.

Let's be clear about "the last time"

Unlimited daily take with an 18" minimum size, unlimited commercial season, with legal dragging and haul seining caused the last collapse. (Not to mention massive pollution in the Hudson and Cheasapeake spawning grounds).


That's a far cry from 2 @ 28".
There's more than one way to get across town. Just because we aren't taking the same route, doesn't mean the destination is different.

Well Raider I've always kinda laughed at the boston Harbor charter idea of gut hook with a treble n relese. seen it too many times. Sad way to go it. Just remember that a change in tactics or gear goes a long way to sustainability.These fish aren't throw aways just to get a buck. I've had loads of tag returns over the years that came off eel caught fish an plug caught fish that were released.Al Anderson has done it for years while chartering an he's still out there doing it. He knows that every one that swims away he has a chance of hooking again in a few yrs.Keeps the charters happy.I've taken many people fishing over the yrs that went home with some sweet pictures an left the fish swimming. not a bad thing. A change here n there goes a long way. Denial got us the last moratorium. People hear about something like that they don't book charters cause they think you can't fish for stripers. You do a little conservation changes and advertise it an it goes a long way towards business.Plus it helps there to be fish to chase in the future.

"Well Raider I've always kinda laughed at the boston Harbor charter idea of gut hook with a treble n relese."
Hey Ron,
You have never been on a boat with me and certainly not on my boat.
I hope you are not suggesting that we release gut hooked fish to die from my boat.

This thread has brought out some attitudes.

I don't know raider ron at all but I bet he is not a gut hook and release guy.
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The comment is pointed at the practice I've seen in the harbor on more than a few occasions while fishing in the harbor. If you don't do it great but you see it done out there .Yet it is rare to see anyone try to change the practice by educating others that it is a destructive practice.It's still practiced to this day by many. The point is that change is educational by all even when things are not our own practice. the responsability is even greater with a Capt liscence as people look up to us. When they see us ignore things like this they think we condone them too.I've had more than a few heated discussions with friends over issues like this as they're just plain wrong like yo yo ing.We need to lead by our pratices and actions to include teaching others what is good and what isn't.

I have only live lined a couple of times and did it with scup and 8/0 circle hooks. They worked just fine and we only had one gut hook out of probably 50 bass. I think Maine made it illegal to use anything but circles with bait, did MA change the law also, or was there any talk about it?

yes it's ALL about teaching the culture. as in teaching the culture about gamefish status and changing rec regs. this would would have a monumental effect on this fishery.....in a good way :).

I was trying to be realistic, I don't think gamefish status is realistic, we can't even get length and limits adjusted. And we can yell all day long about points south and their practices but it's not going to amount to much. Better to focus on what you can directly affect now. Just tossing things around with others the last couple of days a bunch of good ideas have emerged and my eyes have really been opened regarding the depth of sentiment and sometimes lack of reason on all sides. Biggest obstacle to overcome is the sentiment "it's not us/me, it's the other guy that's doing all the damage" together with an entitlement metality in my opinion and I don't exclude myself from guilt in this.

I was trying to be realistic, I don't think gamefish status is realistic, we can't even get length and limits adjusted. And we can yell all day long about points south and their practices but it's not going to amount to much. Better to focus on what you can directly affect now. Just tossing things around with others the last couple of days a bunch of good ideas have emerged and my eyes have really been opened regarding the depth of sentiment and sometimes lack of reason on all sides. Biggest obstacle to overcome is the sentiment "it's not us/me, it's the other guy that's doing all the damage" together with an entitlement metality in my opinion and I don't exclude myself from guilt in this.

It would take a paradigm shift, thats for sure.

Let's start easy
1@36"

Cut the commercial take coast-wide by 50%

I seldom fish bait, if I do it's with circles. Mostly fish single hook lures, jigs, rubber,tin etc. All the barbs on my plugs are crushed and the rear hooks on pencils are singles. I use fairly heavy tackle so fish isn't coming to me on it's side. Try to release fish while in water if I can.

I wasn't always this way, but if I'm gonna let them go I want to give them the best shot at survival.

I keep 3-4 a year, would rather cod,haddock,seabass,tuna,fluke,flounder and the list goes on. . . .





Once again the real issue isn't the slug of fish out there now, it's the low recruitment stocks behind them for the next 5-6 years.

Before any draconian measures need to be enacted, a coast-wide 1 @ 36 would be a good start. Let's them breed for a few more years before they get culled out. The end game would be better for everybody.

Just an old guy chiming in.

Rob I think a lot of states have talked about it. But there is still a lot of back room talk from some members of the charter industry that feel they shouldn't be limited as to what they use for gear as it cost them money ie cuts down the number of fish landed chunking.Most of the sentiment that has been against it has been from those makin a buck from it.

Most of the sentiment that has been against it has been from those makin a buck from it.[/QUOTE]

That's a BULLSEYE.:uhuh:

I was trying to be realistic, I don't think gamefish status is realistic, we can't even get length and limits adjusted. And we can yell all day long about points south and their practices but it's not going to amount to much. Better to focus on what you can directly affect now.
That's exactly why people want game fish status...because all the bickering over state rec/comm regs doesn't go any where.

-spence

Are there less stripers around now than there were a few years ago? Definitely. Does that mean that the population is "in trouble." no. We'll see what the new assessment has to say in a few months. I'm guessing the population in general is just fine, but we will have to wait to confirm that. Fish change patterns from year to year based on a whole slew of factors. Just because you aren't catching them in your usual spots doesn't mean the population as a whole is in trouble.

. Just because you aren't catching them in your usual spots doesn't mean the population as a whole is in trouble.

When any one of us can't catch them in our usual spots it means nothing. When collectively fishermen from NY to ME can't catch them in their usual spots it means a lot.........a real lot.

The population may not be in trouble (however you define that), but recreational fishing from shore most certainly is in trouble and THAT is what concerns most of us.

The population may not be in trouble (however you define that), but recreational fishing from shore most certainly is in trouble and THAT is what concerns most of us.

Good point. I do both and will admit that it has been mostly from the boat for the past two years. Why? The shore fishing sucks.

I'm of the opinion that the reason the shore is worse is because of the lack of small fish. I keep a detailed log and the percentage of fish I caught that were 20" or less was 8% in 2010 and 5% in 2011. That used to be the keeper percentage five years ago.

Why is the Striped Bass in trouble? How do we know they're in trouble. Because it's what is done to all fish. They're cleaned out. Flounder, Ling, Whiting, Cod, Bunker and Herring.
This is a surprise to some? Just look at the big picture and it tells on itself. So why do some think that there still is no problem? Look at the track record of how we just wipe it all out!
Are the Flounder stacked like they used to be in Quincy Bay like they were 30 years ago?

NUMBERS,,,,,,,,,,,,

SCHMUMBERS!!!

the major problem with science is that it works in reverse~~~

an event happens; THEN, it goes about trying to "prove/disprove" the causes/results of the EVENT.

the inherent problem with scientific data is that it can be manipulated for whichever intent or purpose one funds it to be interpreted by~~~

numbers, data, yoy, indices, takes, ALL THE CRAP gets gathered and thrown into a witch's brew and then gets regurgitated back to us lay folk, lawmakers, and licensees to be told whatever the MONEY wants to tell!!! follow the money when it comes to "expert" anything, and you will hear two sides to every datum report, three sides to most issues, and in the end,,,,,,,,,,,,SADLY,,,,,,,,,,,,,the entity with the most power and lobby wins the managerial decision.

this has NEVER been about the Species, the Forage, or the Ocean!!!

if it ever TRULY was,,,,,,,,,,,,,would we have experienced the FIRST crash? would a single Corp like Omega be allowed to decimate Menhaden so recklessly? would the DelMarVa waters be so utterly polluted by the Poultry Industry and the Hudson so damaged by petrochemical runoffs?

will we ever LEARN?? ask the Plains Indians about their beloved American Bison!! i do not think that we are crashing the SB Stock, YET!

Why is the Striped Bass in trouble? How do we know they're in trouble. Because it's what is done to all fish. They're cleaned out. Flounder, Ling, Whiting, Cod, Bunker and Herring.
This is a surprise to some? Just look at the big picture and it tells on itself. So why do some think that there still is no problem? Look at the track record of how we just wipe it all out!
Are the Flounder stacked like they used to be in Quincy Bay like they were 30 years ago?

Yup. Think about the management mandate: "maximum sustainable yield". Translated into real-speak, it means manage the fishery to the edge of a crash and pray that it doesn't go over the edge.

Yup. Think about the management mandate: "maximum sustainable yield". Translated into real-speak, it means manage the fishery to the edge of a crash and pray that it doesn't go over the edge.

This is the exact problem with fisheries management as a whole. Instead of managing a species to make sure populations don't crash they are trying to take as much of possible the whole time verging on causing a crash.
Take winter flounder in the Gulf of Maine...how long ago had that fishery totally collapsed now we are finally seeing good fishing the last few years and management just almost doubled the commercial season limit from 510,000 to 1.1 million lbs. So instead of sticking with a management plan that has allowed the species to rebound and grow they are heading right back down the same path. How long before we see the same thing happen again?

Who are these people because I want to kick their ass
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they can't maintain cod and now stripers, but they protect dogfish to the point that there are so many of them :rollem: , that they are all around the same or similar size and chow on all the juvenile cod and whatever else they can eat, good thing seals will kill them too.

Let's be clear about "the last time"

Unlimited daily take with an 18" minimum size, unlimited commercial season, with legal dragging and haul seining caused the last collapse. (Not to mention massive pollution in the Hudson and Cheasapeake spawning grounds).


That's a far cry from 2 @ 28".

You might look at the numbers of fisherman now compared to then, the health of bass in the Chesapeake, the bait situation in the Chesapeake, and the number of charters slaughtering big fish all day long up and down the coast. I think you might find the total pressure is similar.

You might look at the numbers of fisherman now compared to then, the health of bass in the Chesapeake, the bait situation in the Chesapeake, and the number of charters slaughtering big fish all day long up and down the coast. I think you might find the total pressure is similar.
Don't forget the estimates that something like 70+% of the stripers in the Chesapeake are infected with myco.

Anyone who cares and has the time should step up and attend the Feb. 28th gamefish bill hearing at the Boston State House. Let them hear it. Typing back and forth to each other won't do a damn thing.

Go back to 2006 limits recreational and commercial THEN cut back another 33%

Rec -v- Comm is just rearranging the deck chairs.

The government has asked if you will attend the State House Hearing and have your say. If you think this one is pre determined you are uninformed. The State House is watching this one closely. Posting here means NOTHING. Show up and be heard or shut up because Democracy is not a spectator sport.

Blah Blah fcukin Blah...whine, whine, whine

Show up and be part of the solution...make some noise.

Here is the place and time.

Room B-1 in the Statehouse Bldg on Beacon Hill in Boston on Feb 28th at 11:00 AM.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

When any one of us can't catch them in our usual spots it means nothing. When collectively fishermen from NY to ME can't catch them in their usual spots it means a lot.........a real lot.

The population may not be in trouble (however you define that), but recreational fishing from shore most certainly is in trouble and THAT is what concerns most of us.

Numbskull, Alot has changed the last few years for the shorebound guys up north. In all seriousness do you think that even a moratorium for 1,2 years will bring back the surf fishing on the cape for instance, Back Beaches???? I dont think it will be what it was for a very long time or ever for that matter. When was the last time NC got a surf bass run which used to be the norm every year? Over a decade ago? You think they will fill they're com limit this year, I bet not, the fish are all north of NC. There are alot more different environmental factors there, along with alot of other places. Did you know that down here in NJ they had one of the best fall striped bass runs, (Spring was really good to), anyone can remember off the surf and Boat. They are still catching fish on the oceanside in February, off the surf, I dont, and neither does anybody else recall that ever happening. Try selling to all those guys that the stocks are in trouble, or to the guys off VA trolling 40,50,80, 100 fish a trip. They wont hear it. There are to many cyclical things going on Temps, bait, migrational patterns, etc... Yeah I think things are really out of whack, While some areas are lacking other areas its the opposite. Yes we probably are killing to many fish coastwide, making cuts in other fish species switches the targeted species. What I see as trouble in my back yard is cutting season length, limits on fluke, flounder, sea bass, tog forces alot of charter guys, rec guys to target striped bass, its always open, and the limits havent changed in years. When every single boat out there is fishing for just striped bass because u cant fish for anything else is a bit of problem, and they dont need 2 a person. Quite a site to see 150 ft headboats with 40 plus guys snagging and dropping bunker! Agian we can go on and on and blame the recs, coms, poachers, etc. If cuts need to be made if a stock is in trouble it should be across the board. I still think were a ways off from striped bass armegedon, if it even happens. Enjoy your season......

Agian we can go on and on and blame the recs, coms, poachers, etc. If cuts need to be made if a stock is in trouble it should be across the board. I still think were a ways off from striped bass armegedon, if it even happens. Enjoy your season......

It would take a paradigm shift, thats for sure.

Let's start easy
1@36"

Cut the commercial take coast-wide by 50%

Exactly.
Why is this complicated?

1@36" for rec/charter. Reduce commercial take.
25% the first year with additional 5% a year reduction for another 5 years.

Exactly.
Why is this complicated?

1@36" for rec/charter. Reduce commercial take.
25% the first year with additional 5% a year reduction for another 5 years.

I was always for the 1@36" dont know many guys that werent.... Meanwhile its complicated for many, they throw in these slot limits of smaller fish that kill even more fish. (But then they do benefit the average stripers forever flyfishermen).

Exactly.
Why is this complicated?

1@36" for rec/charter. Reduce commercial take.
25% the first year with additional 5% a year reduction for another 5 years.

It's all about money. No politician or their appointee will do anything that will be viewed as causing economic hardship.

places. Did you know that down here in NJ they had one of the best fall striped bass runs, (Spring was really good to), anyone can remember off the surf and Boat. They are still catching fish on the oceanside in February, off the surf, I dont, and neither does anybody else recall that ever happening. happens. Enjoy your season......

It's a false positive. But I agree, because in this case seeing is not believing.

I bet not, the fish are all north of NC.

When the population is at sustainable levels, there is no "the fish are all north of NC." They used to be from NC to Maine. The same logic was used by some guys on CC who slayed them in the late 1970's, while the rest of the coast was depleted. It is dangerous to make that assumption. It is circumstantial evidence of a strong population and contrary to the norm. 1 @36 should be minimum to reduce the numbers, although I would rather see 1@ 22-28". That would get rid of the killing of breeders for ego. Nothing complicated about it. People would only keep a fish if they were actually interested in it for eating. Slot limits have pretty good scientific support.

When the population is at sustainable levels, there is no "the fish are all north of NC." They used to be from NC to Maine. The same logic was used by some guys on CC who slayed them in the late 1970's, while the rest of the coast was depleted. It is dangerous to make that assumption. It is circumstantial evidence of a strong population and contrary to the norm. 1 @36 should be minimum to reduce the numbers, although I would rather see 1@ 22-28". That would get rid of the killing of breeders for ego. Nothing complicated about it. People would only keep a fish if they were actually interested in it for eating. Slot limits have pretty good scientific support.

I respectfully disagree, the southern most states in a migratory range and northern most states in a migratory range are more influenced by weather, temps, and bait migration. I have caught Striped bass in water temps as cold as 38-39 degrees and as warm as 74-75 degrees. They will be where the bait is, unfortunately for the shore guys, they have become more of an offshore fish. As far as the slot limits, terrible, terrible idea. Some state, such as my home state of NJ did it for a few years and it wiped out the smaller " Resident" fish. They did away with that slot limit, but to late, damage was done. Its been a few years and things are yet to return back to the "Norm". Its alot easier to catch a 20 some odd inch ranch fish than a 40 plus inch range, the smaller fish are more abundant, natural scale of things, and they hit EVERYTHING. A slot limit does nothing more than kill more fish, fish that one day will become breeders. We should be all working for a common goal, a healthy striped bass stock benefits rec, boat, surf, com, and charter guys, unfortunately every group is trying to do whats best for one instead whats best for all....

I love finding this in the spring day to day, 1,000's of 30-40lb bass swimming past under the boat, but yet they are almost extinct?

I love finding this in the spring day to day, 1,000's of 30-40lb bass swimming past under the boat, but yet they are almost extinct?

You are clearly demonstrating the mentality that lead to the first collapse. Circumstantial evidence to support what you want to believe.

A few years of slot in New Jersey is enough for you to reach a conclusion? One side you say best fishing ever, the next you say it hasn't returned to the norm. The fish you are catching in Jersey come out of the Hudson and Chesapeake. They aren't resident on the coast. There may be small numbers wintering in the estuaries, but the idea they wiped out the resident local fish is the same kind of science as showing a sonogram of a school of fish as your evidence the population is fine. The trouble is, too many people with similar mentality who are thinking with their wallets have enormous clout with the reg makers.

You are clearly demonstrating the mentality that lead to the first collapse. Circumstantial evidence to support what you want to believe.

A few years of slot in New Jersey is enough for you to reach a conclusion? One side you say best fishing ever, the next you say it hasn't returned to the norm. The fish you are catching in Jersey come out of the Hudson and Chesapeake. They aren't resident on the coast. There may be small numbers wintering in the estuaries, but the idea they wiped out the resident local fish is the same kind of science as showing a sonogram of a school of fish as your evidence the population is fine. The trouble is, too many people with similar mentality who are thinking with their wallets have enormous clout with the reg makers.

No, the fish I am reffering to are all the Bay fish, That has not returned to the norm. The migratory runs have been better than ever. Way different. I can go any day of the week, month and catch em in my home waters, pretty aware as to whats going on here. Yes there are curveballs every year. But I did see what a slot limit did... You??? Small number wintering in the Thames? Hudson? Or Offshore in the Mudhole? Kent Island, Chesapeake? or 13 plus miles off the VA, NC coast??? Where did a awesome YOY come from? A Fluke, please explain? catching 30-100 plus fish, times many, every day and its over? You dont see the Carnage I take....

kenny,how many miles of bass were there off jersey this fall?,do you think it is the same mass of fish that were off chatham.i think if some people expierenced these massive schools of fish firsthand they might change the way they think.

Well I'm still tryin to get Monday off to make it down to the meeting. sometimes I think schedule the meetings so working people can't get to them like they do up here.
Cow hunter you make me chuckle. I heard it yrs ago. We have no resident fish then the next sentance you can catch them everywhere all season long all day long in your back yard. LOL Funny.I've chased the Striped Bass scince back in the 60's. The only other time we had it this bad up here was late 70's early 80's.The outer Cape guys were hammering the fish. Trust me I went down an got a few myself.But up here there were very few fish. The boats did ok but from shore forget it.The same signs are here now. This time the fish are off Jearsy an the EEZ fish which were there back then too just most didn't know it so they weren't fished for. They were found a few yrs back during the winter Tuna bight on their wintering grounds.The internet an charter advertisements let the cat out of the bag.People still keep taking moments out of history an saying thats how it was or is everywhere.Well I still fish all the old places an see fewer an fewer fish all around an hear the same as the early 80's from a small handfull.
We're not saying shut it all down but it does need to be slowed down a load.1fish 36 in ok . Comm cut back 25%30%50% whatever it takes. Slot limits really don't do much more than put fish in the hands of the beginners an keep more people fishing as beginners seldom catch large fish.20 to 26 in 20 to 28 in ok. but to just moan n groan so nothing is done is sad. You don't like the ideas come up with some better ones. but just to say nothing is wrong is stupid an rediculous.there is a problem so lets see who can show up on Monday. I live in Maine an I'm gonna try my best to get off from work.It's important to do something.

But I did see what a slot limit did... You??? You dont see the Carnage I take....

Only slot limit I have experience with is drum in N.C, which seems to work well, and stripers within the Chespaeake. The drum would be slaughterred with a 1@36 or 2@28. The chesapeake has 18" minimum and a slot in the potomac 18-28" for decades. I'm not sure how you are connecting the dots as far as the effect of the slot and what you mean by Bay fish, etc. Chesapeake, Delaware, Raritan? You can catch them all year long, but the slot wrecked that?
1 fish, whether 22-28 or 36 is better than what we have. I am not sure there is any evidence that you are correct that 1@22-28" would wipe out the population, but the 2@28 is working (clearly, in your experience). In any case, I am glad I don't rely on them for financial purposes. It is too bad that the regulations are driven by those who profit by killing the biggest fish.

Well I'm still tryin to get Monday off to make it down to the meeting. sometimes I think schedule the meetings so working people can't get to them like they do up here.
Cow hunter you make me chuckle. I heard it yrs ago. We have no resident fish then the next sentance you can catch them everywhere all season long all day long in your back yard. LOL Funny.I've chased the Striped Bass scince back in the 60's. The only other time we had it this bad up here was late 70's early 80's.The outer Cape guys were hammering the fish. Trust me I went down an got a few myself.But up here there were very few fish. The boats did ok but from shore forget it.The same signs are here now. This time the fish are off Jearsy an the EEZ fish which were there back then too just most didn't know it so they weren't fished for. They were found a few yrs back during the winter Tuna bight on their wintering grounds.The internet an charter advertisements let the cat out of the bag.People still keep taking moments out of history an saying thats how it was or is everywhere.Well I still fish all the old places an see fewer an fewer fish all around an hear the same as the early 80's from a small handfull.
We're not saying shut it all down but it does need to be slowed down a load.1fish 36 in ok . Comm cut back 25%30%50% whatever it takes. Slot limits really don't do much more than put fish in the hands of the beginners an keep more people fishing as beginners seldom catch large fish.20 to 26 in 20 to 28 in ok. but to just moan n groan so nothing is done is sad. You don't like the ideas come up with some better ones. but just to say nothing is wrong is stupid an rediculous.there is a problem so lets see who can show up on Monday. I live in Maine an I'm gonna try my best to get off from work.It's important to do something.


You can Chuckle all u want. I never complain about the lack of fish, not a problem. I can understand the confusion but its rather simple. The resident fish that were are no more once the slot limits came in effect. Bay Run was different than the ocean run, different fish. The ocean run in the spring and fall has been phenominal in my homewaters the last few years. We are in the middle of the migratory zone and have plenty of bait. My case and point try and convince ANYBODY in my state that the stripers are on the brink of collapse and they will look at you cross eyed, to go out there and catch 20,30,40, 60, 100 plus fish depending on the run?? The bottom fish guys hate the bass cause they eat all the bottom fish. Coming from Maine you have no idea how stupid it is here. Manage Your Bait first. You gotta deal with the 1000's of lobster pots that riddle the shoreline also. By the way my wife got her first bass mouth of saco and dozens more...Im all for conservation, I do charity for it and lay out money. BUT the mass com season closed in record short season? Convince those guys the bass are all dead? Convince the guys in VA, Maryland, MD, DE, and NY. THe ri boat guys? Its a different time, to catch thousands of bass a season I dont see an imenent collapse, I see things wrong, different factors, but to catch bass on ANY given day? Some people just have to learn to adapt to the situation. Or wait perched on a rock until the fish show one year. I move my boat in to 3 different slips in spring alone to stay cose to (A) Bait, (B) Fish... The catching is easy, Bait is usually the struggle.... I would be more than Happy to educate some of the StripersForever guys and even steer them the right path for a mutually better cause. I dont hide who I am...

Only slot limit I have experience with is drum in N.C, which seems to work well, and stripers within the Chespaeake. The drum would be slaughterred with a 1@36 or 2@28. The chesapeake has 18" minimum and a slot in the potomac 18-28" for decades. I'm not sure how you are connecting the dots as far as the effect of the slot and what you mean by Bay fish, etc. Chesapeake, Delaware, Raritan? You can catch them all year long, but the slot wrecked that?
1 fish, whether 22-28 or 36 is better than what we have. I am not sure there is any evidence that you are correct that 1@22-28" would wipe out the population, but the 2@28 is working (clearly, in your experience). In any case, I am glad I don't rely on them for financial purposes. It is too bad that the regulations are driven by those who profit by killing the biggest fish.

Yes Slot Crushed raritan an DE bay... Why they go back to 2 @ 28"??? The Headboat captains pushed for it to begin with cause they wanted a piece of the early and late season action, easy to clam, worm, and jig rats...

kenny,how many miles of bass were there off jersey this fall?,do you think it is the same mass of fish that were off chatham.i think if some people expierenced these massive schools of fish firsthand they might change the way they think.

yes they would...Guess those miles of fish are expected to be on the beach...

Yes Slot Crushed raritan an DE bay... Why they go back to 2 @ 28"??? The Headboat captains pushed for it to begin with cause they wanted a piece of the early and late season action, easy to clam, worm, and jig rats...

That's no good. 1@36-40" is fine with me.

Years long declines in catches in multiple states, total catch rates declining every year since 2006. An absence of schoolies in many traditional spots. Stripers are considered littoral fish aka the "rockfish" and for the entire documented history we have of striped bass people caught them standing on the shore. Damn near every guy fishing from shore is saying they aren't catching fish the way they used to just a few years ago but we are supposed to believe that because the boat guys are slaughtering them that we don't have serious problem?!?

Here is the place and time.

Room B-1 in the Statehouse Bldg on Beacon Hill in Boston on Feb 28th at 11:00 AM.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

They set the time for the GD meeting so a working guy can't get there. Tuesday morning at 11:00 AM? WTF!!!!

Years long declines in catches in multiple states, total catch rates declining every year since 2006. An absence of schoolies in many traditional spots. Stripers are considered littoral fish aka the "rockfish" and for the entire documented history we have of striped bass people caught them standing on the shore. Damn near every guy fishing from shore is saying they aren't catching fish the way they used to just a few years ago but we are supposed to believe that because the boat guys are slaughtering them that we don't have serious problem?!?

Maybe not the areas you normally fish, but The shore guys have still been slaughtering them in some areas this spring and this fall.Guess the fish are sticking with the vast amounts of bait???

kenny,how many miles of bass were there off jersey this fall?,do you think it is the same mass of fish that were off chatham.i think if some people expierenced these massive schools of fish firsthand they might change the way they think.
Massive isolated schools of fish and the experience of a select few are not an even remotely valid indicator of the health of a fish who's range is in excess of 1000 miles of shore and 100's of thousands of square miles of ocean.

I've said it before... didn't there used to be a time when the fish were everywhere? I think Mike P said it, "it's not how the fishing is in the middle of their range, it's the worsening of the fishing towards the outside of its range." A contraction of range points to a decrease in the stocks.

Years long declines in catches in multiple states, total catch rates declining every year since 2006. An absence of schoolies in many traditional spots. Stripers are considered littoral fish aka the "rockfish" and for the entire documented history we have of striped bass people caught them standing on the shore. Damn near every guy fishing from shore is saying they aren't catching fish the way they used to just a few years ago but we are supposed to believe that because the boat guys are slaughtering them that we don't have serious problem?!?

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Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Massive isolated schools of fish and the experience of a select few are not an even remotely valid indicator of the health of a fish who's range is in excess of 1000 miles of shore and 100's of thousands of square miles of ocean.

I've said it before... didn't there used to be a time when the fish were everywhere? I think Mike P said it, "it's not how the fishing is in the middle of their range, it's the worsening of the fishing towards the outside of its range." A contraction of range points to a decrease in the stocks.

The outer ranges are much more weather / temp dependent, simple as that, plus their seasons are much shorter... People fish temp breaks offshore, you think different applies for other fish? The best bites this year were early and late, it was when people ended the season it started. When many started the best went by.....Hell we were just getting started in December! Many states are disasters with their bait management and wonder why the fish arent there. The fish still are just about everywhere, the big schools, found EVERYDAY, are with the massive amounts of bait. Nowhere else do these fish get pounded as hard as in northern central jersey out east long island, yet the fish arent wiped out here, 100's, thousands caught every day for a much longer season span... Why is it that every Pogie boat from Mass down from NC, VA is coming up netting pogies off NJ? Yet they are not allowed within 1.2 miles of shoreline. You guys have those boats wipe out the bays, Harbors!

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Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Yeah, Prime bass country!!! used to be any way, never will be agian, but they are loade offshore of that, stellwagon, etc with the miles of sand eels...

johnny,if you spent any amount of time on the water,you would know it isn't a few isolated schools of fish.personally i would base the health of the fishery on the expierence of guys like Kenny and others that i know who put as much time in as he does.

johnny,if you spent any amount of time on the water,you would know it isn't a few isolated schools of fish.personally i would base the health of the fishery on the expierence of guys like Kenny and others that i know who put as much time in as he does.


for every kenny there are 20 joe's with their experiences...

johnny,if you spent any amount of time on the water,you would know it isn't a few isolated schools of fish.personally i would base the health of the fishery on the expierence of guys like Kenny and others that i know who put as much time in as he does.

In my crowd, there are a bunch of guys who have been boat fishing the western sound reefs forever. I have only done it for maybe the last 9 years. Typical May from Hempstead to Norwalk, then later Milford, you would get your bunker, head out to the reefs and regularly catch bunches of nice fish. Chumming and chunking, swimming live, whatever. The last several springs, particularly so in the last two, there were dramatically fewer fish and many skunks. Miles of bunker, followed by miles of sand eels. Five years ago, a skunk was almost unheard under those conditions. The fish went out of Raritan and south or out east, and through the sound toward Rhode Island. To think that the poor fishing north and east is because the fish are hanging off Jersey or are offshore is probably wishful thinking. They used to be in all of those places. It isn't the seals in CT, RI, NH, NC, and most of MA.

johnny,if you spent any amount of time on the water,you would know it isn't a few isolated schools of fish.personally i would base the health of the fishery on the expierence of guys like Kenny and others that i know who put as much time in as he does.

There are a bunch of guys on this site who went through this when Kenny (Cow Hunter?) (and I for that matter...) were still wetting the bed. A boat and a gps, along with being in the business of having to know where the school is makes Kenny's experiences much less representative of the norm in the fishery. I trust those other guys. I have been expecting it for 8 years or so. The fact that some of these guys are sounding off about it now is very concerning.

Alot of guys never stray past their homewaters.... It takes some driving, or some boating to find those single elusive schools on a Daily basis I guess. Yeah theres a problem, I wish they went to a 1 fish limit coast wide, cause to be honest I'm tired of filleteing 2-3 fish a man, to much waste, knife sharpening, to much money on ziplocs, and to much work. Plus those eyes looking back at me get a bit creeeepy.. What was that song," Those eyes "

In my crowd, there are a bunch of guys who have been boat fishing the western sound reefs forever. I have only done it for maybe the last 9 years. Typical May from Hempstead to Norwalk, then later Milford, you would get your bunker, head out to the reefs and regularly catch bunches of nice fish. Chumming and chunking, swimming live, whatever. The last several springs, particularly so in the last two, there were dramatically fewer fish and many skunks. Miles of bunker, followed by miles of sand eels. Five years ago, a skunk was almost unheard under those conditions. The fish went out of Raritan and south or out east, and through the sound toward Rhode Island. To think that the poor fishing north and east is because the fish are hanging off Jersey or are offshore is probably wishful thinking. They used to be in all of those places. It isn't the seals in CT, RI, NH, NC, and most of MA.


The western sound is a good indicator, guess good old greg meyerson had no problem just a few miles east, silver eels, on secret patent rigs and multiple 60's, release a few 70's and boated a world record!

The government has asked if you will attend the State House Hearing and have your say. If you think this one is pre determined you are uninformed. The State House is watching this one closely. Posting here means NOTHING. Show up and be heard or shut up because Democracy is not a spectator sport.

Blah Blah fcukin Blah...whine, whine, whine

Show up and be part of the solution...make some noise.


This is what its all about. If ur crying crash show up to speak. Ill be there But im not crying crash. I want to see first hand what everyone thinks. Ill try to video tape a little bit on my iphone.

In my crowd, there are a bunch of guys who have been boat fishing the western sound reefs forever. I have only done it for maybe the last 9 years. Typical May from Hempstead to Norwalk, then later Milford, you would get your bunker, head out to the reefs and regularly catch bunches of nice fish. Chumming and chunking, swimming live, whatever. The last several springs, particularly so in the last two, there were dramatically fewer fish and many skunks. Miles of bunker, followed by miles of sand eels. Five years ago, a skunk was almost unheard under those conditions. The fish went out of Raritan and south or out east, and through the sound toward Rhode Island. To think that the poor fishing north and east is because the fish are hanging off Jersey or are offshore is probably wishful thinking. They used to be in all of those places. It isn't the seals in CT, RI, NH, NC, and most of MA. I read this several times, big schools of bait this fall with nothing on them. I don't like to use anecdotal evidence but this fall during the derby we witnessed ridiculous amounts of bait on a rocky. "fishy" spot that had nothing on them. I mean bait so thick we turned on our headlamps to see what the noise was and nowhere along that half mile stretch of shore did we witness even some twinks assaulting that bait

I read this several times, big schools of bait this fall with nothing on them. I don't like to use anecdotal evidence but this fall during the derby we witnessed ridiculous amounts of bait on a rocky. "fishy" spot that had nothing on them. I mean bait so thick we turned on our headlamps to see what the noise was and nowhere along that half mile stretch of shore did we witness even some twinks assaulting that bait

Thats the problem..... "You Read" werent you there? wonder how many people who are complaining on here are actually fishing????

if people stopped living in the past and look what is happening now maybe they might catch a few fish.i have been fishing more than 50 years,so i have a little idea of what happened back in the ''day''not always as rosie as some of the old farts make it out to be. zimmy you ever think maybe those fish in the western sound decided to swim the other way around.pretty good fishing on the south shore of LI,though my favorite SS bay didn't load up because the brown tide keep the bunker from coming in,but my freinds with boats had no lack of fish a mile off the beach.

It's funny that the two guys in this thread that seem to be bitching and complaining the most (at least on the last few pages) about the proposed bills here in MA aren't even from here!

Why doesn't the NJ guy just keep on killing 3 a day along with his clients and V.T. can go fish a lake.....pathetic. :1poke:

It's funny that the two guys in this thread that seem to be bitching and complaining the most (at least on the last few pages) about the proposed bills here in MA aren't even from here!

Why doesn't the NJ guy just keep on killing 3 a day along with his clients and V.T. can go fish a lake.....pathetic. :1poke:

Pathetic: The rich yuppies proposing the bills are from Maine!
And by the way I killed Plenty of bass in mass and am deserving of a break you know..... theres a lack of fish there??????

NJ Bonus tags, AKA Game Fish State, Happy Together!

Chunka,i actually spend as much time on the cape as i do in Vt.from may to late oct i am on the cape. i fish just about every night,and 3 to 4 days a week on mt kayak. i work in a tackle shop. hold a comm. license and build plugs i have more to lose than most if the fishery fails.you might want to take a reading compretention course, as i never mention anything against the bills.do i see a decline in the number of fishermen in the last 8 years most definitly,i would think this might have something to do with decreased landings. i i see a decline in the amount of fish caught from the beach,at times yes .i am seeing much bigger concentrations of fish and catching many more fish in an outing than ever before.i hear people talk about an area having no fish yet i never see them fishing that area.in the spring i talk to freinds in delaware,nj,li that are into miles of fish,with no one in sight until the word gets out.getting tried of hearing people moan and groan over their keyboards.if there is a problem it is where the fish spawn and maturelooking forward to another year by myself and a few freinds.

Fish are offshore and concentrated...ok but is there any data (science) that points to the size of the total bass population doing anything but shrinking?

The YOY index is trending down with the exception of 2011. We need to conserve...

Well VT sorry if my "compretention" isn't the best but my spelling is certainly better than yours. I've seen you do nothing but talk about how great the numbers of fish are, but in many areas I fish this isn't the overall feeling.
Good luck out there...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I was going to say make Massachusetts a residents only commercial fishery.

Chatham is ridiculous.

Andrew,check with the ACLU,residency laws are basically illegal,you can not deny a person the right to work.that is why most states have nonresident licenses.

Well I am a resident and I can't get a fluke permit while others can. RI has no problem telling you where to go. MA is just greedy. Hope your winter has been fun John.Sebastian soon.

I was going to say make Massachusetts a residents only commercial fishery.

Chatham is ridiculous.

I was a a fisheries meeting were this was discussed. The explanation is they can't legally do it do to labor laws. But the option is there to make a non-resident license cost up to 5 times what a resident license cost. That might negate the benefit for a lot of out state part timers.

Chris,i am pretty sure no more fluke license are being issued in Mass.just because a state doesn't issue a license doesn't make it legal.if you want to fight it there are numerous cases were residency laws have been fought and won. i have been thru it twice once in Fla and once in LI.a call to the ACLU will make most towns or states comply to your right to work.winter has been disappointing snow wise,but skiing has been good overall.let me know if you get up this way in March

Getting back to the thread for a moment,

Few of us seem to be able to see past the fish that are swimming around now and wrap our heads around the real concern.

THE THING THAT WILL BITE US ALL IN THE ASS IS THE WAY THE CHESAPEAKE WITH ITS MYCO, HYPOXIA ,POLLUTION ETC. IS PUTTING A BIG HURT ON THE JUVENILE BASS.

Present anomaly of last years YOY excluded, it takes 3times the biomass of bass to produce the same YOY it normally would take. So does it not make sense to keep more eggs in the water now ? The Chesapeake isn't going to be cleaning up anytime soon.

This is the real 800 pound gorilla in the room. Not our incessant childish whining of who gets to keep or not keep fish. :doh:

You guys bitching on favor should either show up at the state house or shut the #^&#^&#^&#^& up !
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

See what I mean.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I'd love to know if those on this thread have communicated their opinions to any MA based organizations that they belong to?

I'd also like to know if anyone is attending the hearing at the State House next week.

My Point is that Democracy is not a spectator sport.

I was going to say make Massachusetts a residents only commercial fishery.

Chatham is ridiculous.


that is a valid allocation argument but will not save one striped bass...the quota is the quota and oho bye the way it is not enough fish to really matter in the numbers....we need real conservation and that means an across the board mortality cut