I made some smaller spooks (these small builds are a mystery to me, more difficult than Musky sized stuff). Made from basswood (as a test) I have some cut from cherry as well. 5.5 inches and a little over 3/4 inches at it's widest point. I have size 2 trebles on it.

it didn't swim/glide very well at first. i removed the belly hook and it was much better, but when i added weight at different points b/w belly hook and tail I could not replicate the action.

So I hope this isn't a dumb question, After much cursing on the long drive home I realized I was using my new set up with 20lb braid and a 25lb fluorcarbon leader....Fluoro sinks (heavier than H2O correct?) so that could have been the problem........I should be using mono as a leader correct........STUPID MS!!!!
My guess cherry or maple would be a better choice anyway?

The good news is If I'm using that rod, i can always remove the belly hook, she glided awesome like that...anyone make their spooks this small with just tail hook? Spooks are very frustrating to me and I'm determined to master them...I have poured over the wonderful post on this site by other spook builders.

http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/muskyslayer4430/download2-4.jpg

Thanks in advance for the help!!

MS

im no expert on the matter, and I know you'll figure it out as all your stuff is always lookin top notch! if you want to look at something to go off, that looks similar to your design, check out Bigfish's "blitz seeker". or maybe try to pick his brain. That thing is delicious lookin, and has the coolest side to side action...

Heavy woods, like maple do not normaly ( In my experience) make good spooks... My choice is WRC.. Bass wood should be fine... a spook depends on the resistance of the head of the plug and boyancy of the wood to make the tail swing around... Unfortunatly, here at work I can't see the pictures so I dont know what they look like or where your hooks are.. if you keep all the resistance up front.. she'll glide like a ballerina.. ( no pun intended)

MS....love your work! Thanks to Johnny for the kind words. My "Blitzseeker" has a length of 4.25 inches and weighs 2 oz. It is tail weighted and it also has a "00" shot towards the chin! It sits in the water as many pencils do at a bit more than a 45 degree angle. When you start to retreive it and pop the rod tip a bit it walks the dog like its nobody's business and the action drives the fish wild! As your spook size is a bit larger than mine I suggest playing with your weight combination both tail and belly weight and also try 3/0 hooks! I can better answer any questions when I get home and have my notes in front of me. Hope I helped a little?:)

Everyone's desire in regards to a spooks action also varies a bit, how it sits in the water, how it glides or walks etc. So you need to have an idea of what you are looking for and work towards that by experimenting a little...make a few test plugs weighted differently and keep notes on how they react individually. Then make your changes.

Thanks so much for the tips fellas...was in the shop most of the day (80 degrees in WI in mid-March???)
I spun up some 1" cedar same size and some pine larger and fatter like my swimmers. Hope to weight and seal tomorrow and test by Sunday...I'll report back.

Thanks again!

MS

Definitely, stay with a lighter wood with spooks, my preference is cedar but pine, basswood etc... would work as well. Personally, i like my spooks tail weighted so that they sit about 15-45 degrees depending on size. I find that if they are just tail weighted you get the best cast-ability to gliding ratio for the way I fish them. And you can't argue with results...

AYC works well too .. A Ballerina is belly weighted 2/3's back .. Not too heavy on the arse hook .. let it swing .. I love spooks .

Spooks work because the heavy tail tries to swing by the lighter more water resistant nose.

Tail weight the thing so it sits vertical with its head about 1- 1 1/2" above water and it will work fine (provided the chin shape is tapered enough not to launch the plug upwards too much). Your shape looks good.

If you want a more glidey/subtle plug put a big slug between the tail and belly hook (about 2/3 back) drill through it and set it up to float at 30 degrees with the water line at the chin and 1/3-1/2 way up the back. Moving the front hook forward a bit also helps. Drop your line tie below midline some. It will be fine.

Pine, basswood, cedar are all fine.

MS, Everything you need to know about spooks has just been provided by these previous posts. I think most important is to drop your line tie position as suggested. I would build the two versions Numbskull outlined and you'll see there is no such thing as spook hell, just wide variations in action from the same plug. Using cherry or maple, weighted front and rear, sinking horizontally at about 1 foot per second will give you a sweet glider that can walk the dog sub-surface. Great info guy's,

Douglas

Great info guys!! Thanks to all for the input..back to the shop...will report back with the results!!

MS

Hey fellas,

A little update....Took in all the tips, fattened out the profile a little (1" is as much as I could get), made from cedar, off set line tie lower a bit, increased hook size, added weight to the rear and float tested. They sit in between zara spook and Rapala walk.
They are sealed, drying and I will add the weight (1/4oz) and epoxy tonight for a hopeful test run tomorrow.
http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/muskyslayer4430/spooks.jpg
http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/muskyslayer4430/spooks2.jpg
http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/muskyslayer4430/spooks4.jpg

Thanks again for all the input,

MS

A suggestion if I might.

When you make protos do like you did making the bodies the same but vary the weights position, it looks like from the pic they are all in the same spot. Varying the weight position may reveal a different action sometimes doing something out of the box results that could surprise. If spoke out of school sorry.

I really like what youve got going on with those bodies. Spooks and ballerinas intrigue me, Ive made a bunch with some success and failures and I always save each and write notes on them. The latest is a soft maple spook and it is quite pleasant surprise.

Good luck

Chris

PNG,

Great point...I did drill the hole in the same spot on all the protos hoping to vary the amount of weight in each hole, and in combination with hook size get what i'm after. I do think drilling the holes in different positions and or numerous holes would have been a better idea...Thanks i always appreciate the input!!

MS

Thanks again fellas for all the input and helpful hints!!! I was able to get the new spook blanks sealed, weighted, and tested them this afternoon. I cut and drilled all the blanks the same figuring I would modify and fine tune with different sized hooks.
I'm interested in your thoughts! I ended up fattening out the profile, lowering the line tie off center a little,moving front hook forward a bit, adding 1/4 oz weight 2/3 back from the front, and tried a number of hook sizes/weight (pretty much everything people recommended)

Three videos of spook action with different hook sizes, first 2/0 , second 3/0 trebles, and third 2/0 4x heavy trebles.

I'm working the spooks pretty fast and hard in the videos, they did well slower and came out of the pause well.


VID00038 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdalWX13xC0)
VID00031 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-62Q0wSlOU)
VID00028 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgEs3ZIik4A)

Thanks again, please post tip/improvements.

MS

They all look great! Stick with 2/0 or 3/0! I would eat that!!!:drool:

I disagree. Those will work for sure, but I think you can maybe do better and definitely learn something more here.

I think they are too light. Add more weight and stay with the smaller hooks. You are better using internal weight rather than large hooks to weight a spook. The hooks add drag, particularly on the tail and kill action. Getting a plug that sits more tail down will also give you more "pop" or splash when you work it. May not matter for muskies.

I'd suggest you try another style as well. Try sticking a 1/2 oz of lead right in the butt, go with 2/0 hooks, and see what it looks like. Remember, tail weight is your friend in a spook. It is what makes the plug work. The momentum of the tail pushes the head to the side and makes it walk. One of the best "spook" designs ever is the ballerina. Bernzy's howdy is great as well. They sit vertical at rest with the head about an 1" out of the water and have a line tie on center (which works better as the plug becomes more tail heavy).

Try both, see which you prefer, and then use the other also since the fish usually have a different opinion than us.

Thanks for the feedback fellas!
Numbskull,
Thanks for the tips, I'll spin up a couple more blanks and give your advice a try. I'm not familiar with the ballerina or the Howdy. I've searched the web but can't find any video of the action of those plugs.
thanks
MS

I am having a heck of a time with this spook design. It won't walk. Don't know if you can see the dimensions, but it's 10" long. I've tried pine, AYC, white cedar and Spanish cedar. It sounds like from reading the posts that I might not have enough weight in the rear(?)

Has anyone had success with a spook of this size? I want to keep it around 4 oz. if possible.

Taper the body and tail more. The long flat section of the plug likely wants to steer it straight. Short plugs (like a zara spook) can get away with a level section but as you lengthen it it likely is causing trouble. You want the head of the plug to be light but offer enough water resistance that the momentum of the tail pushes the head to the side and makes the plug veer. More weight, a fatter head, and more taper from the shoulder back all should help. Moving the belly hook forward might also help. It might be adding too much drag for a plug of that length so far back from the head.

George: Thank you so much for the feedback, I always appreciate your advice.

I'll post a modified design a little later.

easy on the eyes .. I'm a huge jigg man spook fan .. RM Smith marketed this plug but put his own touches in the way of larger deeper eyes . Glide killers imho. I've put many hours in fishing both . . I still like original jiggy spook with very small almost flush eyes as not to catch water .. I think no eyes at all , maybe just painted would be great for zero resistance, optimum guide . I'd go smaller too .. For starters 6.75" max ... Not saying you can't do it, but your going to be working your arse off walking a 10" spook .

The latest is a soft maple spook and it is quite pleasant surprise.



funny you say that ,,, First spooks I made were from a 100 yr. old board of soft maple stored in a barn .... They were magic .... Big Dave still uses them and raves about them .. But I'll never have that recipe again .

MS: Hope I'm not jumping your thread -- I've been in the same boat as you with Spook design.

Tagger: I think this'll be an "occasional" plug -- I know how hard big surface wood can be to work. Good point on the eyes, too -- I'll see what happens.

Attached is my modified proto' design. It's very Howdy-esque. It's ready for transfer to Lexan (I like to attempt protos on template in case I stumble into a good design, that way I'm ready to reproduce).

Initial tail slug is 1.25 oz, which I hope will set the ass down. This will almost surely roll without a ballast weight...belly or chin, you think?

I'll post my findings and modifications.

You want it to roll, it is only way the fish can see the color you paint it. If that bothers you, paint it solid color. Spooks work best when you get them to thrash as well as glide. I would not fool with belly weight and certainly not a chin weight unless you are trying to build an underwater glider.

Loose the siwash. Too big, heavy, and long (and absolutely NO bucktail). You don't want drag on the tail of a spook, it really kills the action (witness how just a little weed on a tail hook makes a spook impossible to work). I'd probably test it with 3/0's before seeing if it can carry 4/0's. Bernzy's howdy uses 1/0 hooks.

Thanks again. I thought the Siwash would be less drag than a treble, but I will try both. I'll also try smaller hooks.

I should get a chance to try one this weekend.

I could use some more input.

The picture below is a third iteration; it's getting close.

Dimensions are 9 3/8" L X 1.45" at the shoulder.
Wood is AYC.
Rear wt is .82 oz centered with ~.22 oz slug just ahead of it.
The 3/8" eyes are pretty flush, as the recesses were drilled to match the taper.
Belly hook is a 3/0.
Tail hook is a 4/0 Siwash, which is lighter than even a 1/0 treble.
Rigged weight is ~3.7 oz.
At rest, the lure is straight up & down with the eyes just above the waterline.

The action isn't too bad, the rear weight forces the nose to splash when working it, but not overly-so. It zigs/zags but not as easily as I like, sometimes it get's "stuck" in a lurching motion before walking again.

I'd like to stay under the current rigged weight -- I'd like to be able to toss this with my usual sticks.

I can't help but think I might get more of a "walk" if I kept the existing taper of the plug, but I lopped 1" or so off the rear so it didn't have so far to swing to change the direction of the plug.

Wooden musky plugs I've seen around this length are much heavier, which leads me to believe I need to start making concessions on the overall length if I want to throw it with my usual gear.

Anyone else have any advice on geting this design to "walk" better?

It sounds like it may be too heavily tail weighted. Less tail weight to let it float 1/2-3/4" higher and get the shoulder of the plug doing more and perhaps taking a similar distance off the tail (which is acting like a rudder) is what I would try.

That kinda looks like a monster Surf Howdy that Bernzy makes or a Ballerina.
I have had good luck with them. My favorites will stay under if the rod tips down and dance if the rod tips high. I do all the weight in the butt. But it's not a gliding spook.

Thanks guys, I'm zeroing-in on a "final" version. I really appreciate the input.

After trialing over 15 versions with different widths, shoulder placements, lead placements, eye placements, wood types and line-tie positions, I've finally found a combination that swims the way I wanted.

I really wanted to use AYC, but I had to go back to EWP to keep it under 4 ounces; the good part about that is I found I could maintain the original length of approximately 9.5" and still get a good "walk".

Thanks to everyone who offered input, especially Numbskull; of course thanks to Bernzy for the inspiration.

At rest the plug is vertical; the waterline is about 1/2" - 3/4" above the shoulder.

If anyone is interested in the design, feel free to PM me; I'll snail-mail you a copy -- just use spray adhesive to stick it to Lexan for a Vega template (my Vega template is in the pic' below with a herring-colored spook).

..and apologies again to MS for hijacking his thread. :eek5:

Eric,

No apologies needed in the least...you added a huge segment to my learning curve and I'll bet others. well done!!!!

With the little one taking all my time up at the moment, the spooks i made are painted, but not cleared and the season opens tomorrow....Looks like I'll be busy tonight.

great thread, and again thanks to everyone who helped me and thanks Eric for sharing your info and designs. These are my favorite posts....the willingness of the experts to help is amazing.

best of luck to everyone and there fishing season.

MS

Oh yeah,

Eric, that spook is KILLER!!!!!!!!!

and the pics of your shop are out of bounds :)

Awesome stuff!!

MS

Thanks for the comments, MS, and I too appreciate the willingness to share from those more experienced -- that's the main reason I stick to this site.

Couple of minor comments:

In the herring example, the eye is really at 1.5" from the nose.
The rear of the plug is actually callipered at .525".
The mushroom weight in the rear was custom made by Professor M -- I placed it in the lathe and filed the "flange" of the mushroom until it was .525". You could make your own mushroom mold out of hardwood -- or skip it altogether, I'm sure.
The design originally had a concave taper from the shoulder to the tail. I finally took that out and was surprised what that did to help its ability to walk.
Despite the reverse-pencil design, it actually casts pretty straight and far for a spook.
I hand-drilled the eye recesses with a forstner -- because the eyes are so far down the taper from the shoulder I didn't want the big recesses a 90 degree drill job would create; they are deep enough so when epoxied they are nearly flush with the curve of the plug.
The hooks on the plug are a 3/0 VMC treble and a 3/0 VMC Siwash.

Also (and this is probably obvious), the spacing on the design shows the shoulder over 1.5" -- If you want a similar plug weight to mine (<4 oz), you'll want to adjust your duplicator to the shoulder diameter of ~ 1.46". Once I got this, I didn't want to adjust the design and cut a new template...Didn't want to mess with a good thing.

Hey Fellas,

Well I'm taking some time off work to spend with my new daughter and so I had some time to finish up the spooks I posted about back in March. Well here is an update. First off thanks to everyone who posted and helped out it was a great way for me to tweak and learn some important lessons on bait building. I hope it was useful to others as well.

Here are four i finished up with a little paint and e-tex..nothing fancy and there are some flaws in the clear-coat (something I'm usually super anal and sensitive about) but I just needed to make sure my building process with a minimum of 2 E-tex coats would not effect the action of these spooks.
Final specs:
5.5 inches
Built from basswood or cedar (did not affect action a great deal)
Final weight 1 1/4 to 1 13\8 oz depending on wood used
Rigged with 2/0 trebles

My first time using basswood and I'm not real fond of it, didn't seal very well and i had some issues with bubbles around the eye sockets. I have a plan for the future, but really liked the cedar and will use it as soon as i use up the basswood.
I love the way these run when worked and am very pleased.....So pleased that I started on some 8 inchers for muskies :D that have very similar action...HUGE thanks again for all the help I learned a lot about the process.
Oh one last thing the pearl/pink is one I made for my new beautiful little princess :D
Best,
MS
http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/muskyslayer4430/DSCF3109.jpg
http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/muskyslayer4430/DSCF3108.jpg

Again congratulations on your daughter.:btu:

Ive used basswood alot and all I can say is give it a chance, it is awesome once you understand it so be patient. After the initial soak in sealer once dry do another quick dip.

What I have found is a single coat of etex is plenty any more and you run the chance of altering the plugs action. When i put the epoxy on I let it spin a bit then remove as much as I can for a thin coat. This preserves the original intended action of the lure.
Looking at the hook placement don't be afraid to move the belly hook back a bit if you find it tangles.

Lastly I really like the body shape of those plugs I think you nailed it I would love to see one in action.

Neat stuff. Got a Zara look to them.

here is my copy of Eric's Big Spook design... also made with EW Pine, same weighting as his design, 6X 3/0 hooks

Very nice -- I'm glad you got a chance to mess with it. I found that it really needs more weight to keel it, as it rolls completely on the retrieve.

It rolls on the twitch? A lot?

That should be ok as long as it glides and walks fine. Besides, the roll will help trick the fish.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It can and does roll completely over. Even without rolling over the belly hook spends a lot of time out of the water.

Yikes- never had that happen before.

You might want to fix that.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device