The name of the killer is Robert Bales. He had seen his buddies leg blown off the previous day and decided to jump into a bottle for solace. Family guy with two kids on his third tour in the Mideast.Sad for everyone and an embarrassment for the country. There must be a very fine line in being a soldier where you have to be cold enough to kill yet disciplined enough to show restraint.

I believe this was this fourth deployment, three in Iraq and then Afghanistan. The report was he thought he was done and really didn't want to go...at 38 years old and with two young kids I don't blame him.

It's a sad situation and just sucks all around, but for years many have been saying we're pushing our troops too far.

I hope they don't go after the death penalty, it just doesn't seem right even considering how brutal his crime appears to have been. My guess is his leadership will be scrutinized significantly.

-spence

The base has a history of dismissing PTSD cases based on keeping expenses down. (resulting in suicides and shootings)
2 headshrinkers were canned for (basically) ignoring PTSD
He had a history of (minor in this case) incidents in the past
He was stop lossed

Recipe for disaster.

When the combatants cannot be distiguished from the non-combatants, you are going to have this reaction manifest itself. Going to put this back on the enemy who continues to hide among the civilan population, using women, children and animals to wage war against our uniformed troops.

When the combatants cannot be distiguished from the non-combatants, you are going to have this reaction manifest itself. Going to put this back on the enemy who continues to hide among the civilan population, using women, children and animals to wage war against our uniformed troops.

If this had happened at 1pm in a skirmish, absolutely. When you walk a mile at night solo and open fire (and then burn the bodies of some of the kids) it is not on the enemy.

I heard an interview with the IAVA head who was very cautious to put this on PTSD as he said there are lots of folks suffering from it w/o going on a rampage...

regardless it is a tragedy for the victims and the family of the perpetrator...

When the combatants cannot be distiguished from the non-combatants, you are going to have this reaction manifest itself. Going to put this back on the enemy who continues to hide among the civilan population, using women, children and animals to wage war against our uniformed troops.

This has nothing to do with what the combatants look like. Its the stress every/any soldier goes through and how its handled/dealt with.

Friend of mine came back from Sadir City, Iraq after the height of it being a complete hell hole of bombings/attacks. They were shelled multiple times a day, shot at on patrol constantly. Saw kids playing in the streets in the middle of fire fights completely oblivious.

He called saying he wasn't sure if he was going to shoot himself or shoot other people and needed help. The base pretty much told him he was "eligible for 4 meetings with the shrink but thats it".

Very thankful that Wounded Warrior (and Nick of Soldier Ride, a friend) is picking up where the military/VA is completely failing.

You should watch this some time. HBO: Wartorn 1861-2010: Home (http://www.hbo.com/documentaries/wartorn-1861-2010/index.html)

You'll realize what the enemy looks like has nothing to do with how people handle war.

My point is that the entire deployment becomes a "skirmish", 24/7. This is not like the Civil War when both sides retired for the night. The fact that the enemy lives among the population and kills from the safety of hiding in plain view is what manifests this reaction. The kids might be oblivious to the threat, but our troops are not. I would liken it to spending an entire tour in a sniper's scope. Takes a toll....

My point is that the entire deployment becomes a "skirmish", 24/7. This is not like the Civil War when both sides retired for the night. The fact that the enemy lives among the population and kills from the safety of hiding in plain view is what manifests this reaction. The kids might be oblivious to the threat, but our troops are not. I would liken it to spending an entire tour in a sniper's scope. Takes a toll....

They had a lot of PTSD in the Civil War, it was just called Solider's Heart, then Shell Shock etc...

-spence

Who so far in this thread has served any time?If you haven't and throw out the "I can only imagine what its like" line, no you can't imagine what its like.

Americans are very different from the rest of the world,we've never had an occupying force in our country EVER.If you say yes we have and quote the Revolutionary War you are an idiot and if say the Civil War you are just plain stupid.

This same type of incident has happened here before and we just spent the last 12yrs fighting two wars because of it.The Afghan people should be pissed,16 non-combatants otherwise known as people are dead at the hands of an American.

You,me and the rest of the world may never no what was in that soldiers head until if ever he decides to speak.Until that time comes if it ever does happen,stop speculating as to the mind set of this soldier.

They had a lot of PTSD in the Civil War, it was just called Solider's Heart, then Shell Shock etc...

-spence

Totally missed my point. In Civil War, both sides would retire for the night, and resume the next day. This war is round the clock.


I'm out. Used up my quarterly quota in this forum.

Basswipe, I have.

Totally missed my point. In Civil War, both sides would retire for the night, and resume the next day. This war is round the clock.
I understood that. My point was that even with proper uniforms, rules for engagement or reasonable hours...fighting men have always suffered from PTSD because war just sucks.

-spence

This whole thing sucks on so many levels.

1) It's horrible that the actions of one person ruin the good and brave deeds of so many others.

2) It is possible this could have been prevented. If what I hear is true, this guy asked for help and was denied and deployed anyway. The doctor who did that should be discharged immediately.

3) Sadly, part of the problem we have with our service members suffering from ptsd can actually be blamed on two major factors. The type of warfare currently being fought(guerilla) is mentally tougher for people to accept. When you have enemy combatants using women and children as human shields and employing them as weapons you have soldiers facing a tough mental state to overcome.
The second reason for abnormally high Ptsd in current (vietnam to current) is actually blamed upon the way they are treated. I remember reading a research paper for school where it was determined that soldiers were able to accept things easier as long as they feel they are getting a fair shake after they returned home. Obviously we saw the ill effects of an asinine public after the Vietnam war.
And to speak further on this, consider this. The average wait time for a disability claim for a veteran right now is over a year. . The American public should be screaming at the politicians for this bull#^&#^&#^&#^&. A soldier volunteers to deploy to Iraq or Afghanistan for very little pay, you get the freedom and you , your son or daughter don't have to be bothered and all it would take is a letter to a senator, but that is too much? It seems like a might easy trade off to me.

I remember last year a very good friend of mine approached me and asked me about my fundraising. He said why aren't these troops getting help through the VA. I told him there is too much BS involved, and sometime people get left behind. That is why I raise money.

Disclaimer: I am not mad, nor do i feel mistreated. I have been very fortunate. This post is not aimed at anyone here, just as a general post on things I think should be improved.

It's horrible that the actions of one person ruin the good and brave deeds of so many others.



That is always my reaction - and sympathy for the victims.

This whole thing sucks on so many levels.

1) It's horrible that the actions of one person ruin the good and brave deeds of so many others.

.

It only tarnishes the actions of everybody else, if we allow it to be spun that way.

Heres what I mean. On the afternoon of 09/11/2001, BUsh was already telling us to be mindful that not all Muslims were responsible, that Islam was a religion of peace. Thst statement, so soon after the attacks, told me a lot about what kind of a guy Bush is.

Compare that to Obama. Obama has apologized to the victims, which of course he should do. But I'd like Obama to IMMEDIATELY follow up that apology with a stern warning to the Muslim world, not to use this as an excuse to kill random Americans. I'd like to see Obama remind the Muslim world, in no uncertain terms, that millions of them are better off now, thanks to the heroic efforts of our military. Maybe he did this, but I haven't seen it. And it's not in his character, in my opinion, to remind folks of the sacrifices we make on their behalf. He's great at apologizing for our faults, I wish he was quicker to brag about our contributions to the world.

It only tarnishes the actions of everybody else, if we allow it to be spun that way.

Heres what I mean. On the afternoon of 09/11/2001, BUsh was already telling us to be mindful that not all Muslims were responsible, that Islam was a religion of peace. Thst statement, so soon after the attacks, told me a lot about what kind of a guy Bush is.

Compare that to Obama. Obama has apologized to the victims, which of course he should do. But I'd like Obama to IMMEDIATELY follow up that apology with a stern warning to the Muslim world, not to use this as an excuse to kill random Americans. I'd like to see Obama remind the Muslim world, in no uncertain terms, that millions of them are better off now, thanks to the heroic efforts of our military. Maybe he did this, but I haven't seen it. And it's not in his character, in my opinion, to remind folks of the sacrifices we make on their behalf. He's great at apologizing for our faults, I wish he was quicker to brag about our contributions to the world.

Awesome, blame Obama.

Go away.

Awesome, blame Obama.

Go away.

Are you feeling all right? I didn't blame him for what happened. If you read my post (rather, if you were able to comprehend it), you'd see that I said he was absolutely right to apologize.

I give him credit where it's due (for example, for killing terrorists). I don't like his obvious disdain for traditional American values and policies, and I think he's completely incompetent (borderline insane) with economic policy.

Your keen insight is appreciated as always...

Just the other day you were attacking Obama for his apology...why the change in heart?

More importantly, it's a serious thread. I think your experiences in Iraq and with military leadership could be interesting and insightful. Curious what you've experienced in this context.

-spence

Are you feeling all right? I didn't blame him for what happened. If you read my post (rather, if you were able to comprehend it), you'd see that I said he was absolutely right to apologize.

I give him credit where it's due (for example, for killing terrorists). I don't like his obvious disdain for traditional American values and policies, and I think he's completely incompetent (borderline insane) with economic policy.

Your keen insight is appreciated as always...

This thread has nothing to do with Obama, it has to do with PTSD. GTFO.

Jim in CT , Likwid - both of you lighten up a bit please. Argue the facts but please in a less negative manner.

there's going to be a heavy price to pay whether or not
this soldier gets the death penalty or Not.

and it will be retaliatory in nature for his senseless act
with the lives of more soldiers and or civilians.

that many deployments would compromise anyone's
brain and he could have been in a support role for his last deployment.

Just the other day you were attacking Obama for his apology...why the change in heart?

More importantly, it's a serious thread. I think your experiences in Iraq and with military leadership could be interesting and insightful. Curious what you've experienced in this context.

-spence

I attacked Obama because hespent more energy apologizing for burning a Koran than he expended condemning the subsequent slaughter of innocent Americans.

In this case, an apology is clearly warranted. That would have been the perfect time to remind the Muslim world that that millions of Muslims have been liberated from other, monstrous Muslims, thanks to the US military.

That's all I said, and there's nothing illogical about it.

It only tarnishes the actions of everybody else, if we allow it to be spun that way.


So when you blame all liberals for the people harassing scalia, you were spinning?

I attacked Obama because hespent more energy apologizing for burning a Koran than he expended condemning the subsequent slaughter of innocent Americans.
The interesting thing though is that from your perspective the murders were deserving of the apology, yet to many people of Afghanistan the burnings was a worse offense.

Where do you draw the line?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

The interesting thing though is that from your perspective the murders were deserving of the apology, yet to many people of Afghanistan the burnings was a worse offense.

Where do you draw the line?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Are you saying murder is no big deal to many people in Afghanistan?

Are you saying murder is no big deal to many people in Afghanistan?
I don't believe I said anything like that.

-spence

Are you saying murder is no big deal to many people in Afghanistan?

I'll say it. Let me re-phrase, to many people there, murder is a big deal, it's a cause for celebration.

PaulS, I didn't blame all liberals for what happened at Wesleyan...please stop putting radical jibberish in my mouth. What I say is fair game, don't make stuff up please. I do blame any liberals who won't condemn as hateful intolerance the act of throwing condoms at a sitting justice of the supreme Court.

The interesting thing though is that from your perspective the murders were deserving of the apology, yet to many people of Afghanistan the burnings was a worse offense.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Which shows you how insane those people are you're referring to. If a large group of people really believe that a piece of paper is worth more than a human life (any human life), then the president (especially one who has the Nobel Peace Prize under his belt) should recognize his obligation to set these people straight about their priorities, and to warn them what will happen if they target innocent westerners.

I'd also like him to tell the Muslim that they should be getting on their knees and thanking the US military for trying to free them from enslavement at the hands of other, monstrous Muslims. No greater love hath man than he who lays down his life for another, and many Americans have risjked precisely that in trying to bring freedom to these people. As one of those who has bled over there, it would sure be nice to hear him articulate it that way, especially to those who need to hear it.

I read this on another site, and after thinking about it, it is so true.



After reading the headlines about the US soldier who shot up Afghanistan civilians, I couldn't help noticing an irony. There is all this clamor to try this guy quickly and execute him, never mind his having suffered a traumatic brain injury.

Yet this Major Hasan, who shot up Fort Hood while screaming Allah akbar, still hasn't stood trial, and they are still debating whether he was insane, even with the clear evidence regarding his motive: slay as many infidels as possible.

So we have a guy in a war zone who cracks, and he must be executed immediately.
But this Muslim psychiatrist who was stateside in a nice safe office all day murders 13, wounds 29 of our own guys, and they try to argue the poor lad suffered post-traumatic stress syndrome, from listening to real soldiers who had actual battle experience. Two and a half years later, they still haven't tried the murderous bastard.

I read this on another site, and after thinking about it, it is so true.

EXACTLY.

Here's the difference. The people that Hasan killed (US soldiers) have not been anointed with "victim" status by the American left. In fact, that story was buried as much as possible by the liberals, because the murderer was a Muslim, and thus he HAS been anointed with "victim"status by the American left.

PaulS, I didn't blame all liberals for what happened at Wesleyan

But that is how your posts constantly come across. It is like if I was petty enough to start a thread "Conservative Classlessness" about the woman who yelled to Santorum to make believe it was Obama when he was at the firing range.

And I didn't see you condem that either - what does that mean?

But that is how your posts constantly come across. It is like if I was petty enough to start a thread "Conservative Classlessness" about the woman who yelled to Santorum to make believe it was Obama when he was at the firing range.

And I didn't see you condem that either - what does that mean?

"But that is how your posts constantly come across."

I can't help how you interpret my posts.

"I didn't see you condem that either - what does that mean?"

Obviously, it means that I had no knowledge of the issue you were referring to.

Paul, I would never say that all liberals are rude, nor would I ever say that all conservatives are polite and respectful. However, in my opinion, when you see things like condoms thrown at Justice Scalia, that type of anarchist, close-minded hate is disproportionately conducted by liberals. And I find that interesting, since liberals claim to be about inclusuion and open-mindedness.

"But that is how your posts constantly come across."

I can't help how you interpret my posts.

"I didn't see you condem that either - what does that mean?"

Obviously, it means that I had no knowledge of the issue you were referring to. Or possibly you choose to ignore it as I'm sure others on here heard about it and ignored it. (I have no doubt that you did not approve of it and frankly most who heard about it just laughed it off - no big deal) - just as most liberals didn't know about the Scalia incident. The point is each side does things that everyone knows shouldn't be done. But most left leaning don't constantly post things that they attribute to ALL on the right. Your Scalia post started out "Liberal intolerance...." How do you know they were Liberal????.

Paul, I would never say that all liberals are rude, nor would I ever say that all conservatives are polite and respectful. However, in my opinion, when you see things like condoms thrown at Justice Scalia, that type of anarchist, close-minded hate is disproportionately conducted by liberals. And I find that interesting, since liberals claim to be about inclusuion and open-mindedness.

And when I see expressions of violence or racism it is disproportionately conducted by conserv. (and just as you could disagree or come up with many examples, I could also). So if I started a thread called "Conserv. Classlessness" that ranted about the racists at the tea party wouldn't most people assume that I was condeming all the people at those rallies?

And when I see expressions of violence or racism it is disproportionately conducted by conserv. (and just as you could disagree or come up with many examples, I could also). So if I started a thread called "Conserv. Classlessness" that ranted about the racists at the tea party wouldn't most people assume that I was condeming all the people at those rallies?

I'm curious to know what pattern of "expressions of violence" you attribute to conservatives...I would agree that conservatives are much more pro-gun than liberals...

I'm curious to know what pattern of "expressions of violence" you attribute to conservatives...I would agree that conservatives are much more pro-gun than liberals...

All the death threats the Pres. has received for example. - the most in history.

All the death threats the Pres. has received for example. - the most in history.

I have no doubt this President has received the most death threats because of the racial element.

But no rational person supports the act of threatening the President. People who commit that act are crazy, and they go to jail. The kids at Wesleyan who threw condoms at Scalia are not ostracized within the liberal community, their actions are not condemned by the majority of liberals.

Bill Maher is a liberal hero (I say that because extremely influential liberals agree to go on his show, and they don't challenge his lack of civility), and he called Palin a c*nt. David Letterman makes jokes about Palin's teenage daughter getting raped, and the First Lady agrees to go on his show. Yet Rush Limbaugh is being labeled a mysoginist. What does that tell you?

that she'll stoop that low

But no rational person supports the act of threatening the President. People who commit that act are crazy, and they go to jail. The kids at Wesleyan who threw condoms at Scalia are not ostracized within the liberal community, their actions are not condemned by the majority of liberals. I haven't seen the majority of cons. making any statement about the woman yelling about making believe that the target is Obama - maybe they agreed w/it? To be fair, I don't think the majority of the cons. think it is ok. But in both our examples, where is the "condemning" suppose to take place? Both you and I agreed the others example isn't appropriate (and in your example I posted like the 2nd or 3rd response and said it wasn't appropriate). The difference is that you posted a thread and said something like "an example of lib. intolerance" and I'm gave you an example to show that the actions of a supposed conserv. comes across just as bad.

Bill Maher is a liberal hero (I say that because extremely influential liberals agree to go on his show, and they don't challenge his lack of civility), and he called Palin a c*nt. David Letterman makes jokes about Palin's teenage daughter getting raped, and the First Lady agrees to go on his show. Yet Rush Limbaugh is being labeled a mysoginist. What does that tell you?

All the statements are inappropriate (and have been discussed here). People prob. view Maher and Letterman as comedians and prob. cut them some slack. There is no way you can compare the "influential" libs on Maher's show w/the amount of "influential" cons. on Limbaugh's show (I never watch Limb. and watch Maher about 25% of the time).

All the statements are inappropriate (and have been discussed here). People prob. view Maher and Letterman as comedians and prob. cut them some slack. There is no way you can compare the "influential" libs on Maher's show w/the amount of "influential" cons. on Limbaugh's show (I never watch Limb. and watch Maher about 25% of the time).

"All the statements are inappropriate "

Many people have attacked Rush, but not said anything about Maher or Letterman. Forgive me for saying, but I'm not looking for you to be the voice of reason on this, I want to see the liberal jerks in the media being as fair as you are.

"is no way you can compare the "influential" libs on Maher's show w/the amount of "influential" cons. on Limbaugh's show "

Why not? Maher has liberal big-shots on his show, just as influential as Rush's guests.

"People prob. view Maher and Letterman as comedians"

Then those "people" are pure hypocrites. Maher is a political commentator who uses comedy, just like Rush. The only difference is that Rush is more successful with a much larger audience.

[QUOTE=Jim in CT;929500Why not? Maher has liberal big-shots on his show, just as influential as Rush's guests.

[/QUOTE]

That is funny - go do some research on the cons. guests Rush has and compare them to the lib. guests Maher has had on. Pres. (I think Bush even took a call in the oval office), VPs, Sec. of States, the list goes on and on that come and bow down to the druggie :rotf2:.

That is funny - go do some research on the cons. guests Rush has and compare them to the lib. guests Maher has had on. Pres. (I think Bush even took a call in the oval office), VPs, Sec. of States, the list goes on and on that come and bow down to the druggie :rotf2:.

Whenever I make a claim that you don't like, you ask me to support it. So why are you now asking me to validate your claim that Maher's guests aren't as influential as Maher's? You made the claim, the burden of proof is on you, not me...

There's no reason for influential people to turn down Rush's show, as he does not have a pattern of visciousness. Maher's show is as bad as it gets. Rush doesn't sing nearly as low as Maher.

Making fun of someone who got addicted to painkillers as a result of a car accident? Aren't you the one who criticized me for offensive language? See, there's that liberal hypocrisy at work. It's OK for you to call Rush a druggie, but I can't call Rachael Maddow names? Did I miss the announcement from God that only you are allowed to insult those you disagree with, and the rest of us have to be civilized? How come it's OK for you to insult, but not me?

Whenever I make a claim that you don't like, you ask me to support it. So why are you now asking me to validate your claim that Maher's guests aren't as influential as Maher's? You made the claim, the burden of proof is on you, not me...
Here you go. Now show me the "extremely influential liberals agree to go on his show" - that was your quote you brought it up - so validate your claims about "extremely influential"

Notable guestsIn 1992, President George H. W. Bush made an appearance on Limbaugh's show.

Charlton Heston called into the show in 1995 to read from Michael Crichton's book Jurassic Park.

Secretary of State Colin Powell appeared on the show in November 2003 when Roger Hedgecock was guest-hosting the show.

Former President George W. Bush has appeared six times on the program. The first time was during the 2000 presidential campaign. Then, in 2004, he "called in" to a live broadcast during the week of the 2004 Republican National Convention to give a preview of his nomination acceptance speech. He called in again in 2006. The fourth time was April 18, 2008, when Limbaugh asked the White House to speak with Bush to thank him for the ceremony welcoming Pope Benedict XVI, which awed Limbaugh. The fifth call was during the show's 20th anniversary celebration, in which then-President Bush (and George H. W. Bush and Jeb Bush) congratulated Limbaugh. He appeared a sixth time for an interview regarding his autobiography, Decision Points on November 9, 2010.

Vice President #^&#^&#^&#^& Cheney has made multiple appearances.

In 2007, California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger called in to a live broadcast of the show a day after having called Limbaugh "irrelevant;" adding, "I'm not his servant. I'm the people's servant of California," on an appearance on NBC's Today show.[7]

Other notable guests who have called into Limbaugh's show include former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, unsuccessful Supreme Court nominee Robert Bork, economist Thomas Sowell, former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, and television writer Joel Surnow, who took calls about events in his show, 24. In December 2006, Sylvester Stallone made an appearance on the show to discuss his upcoming movie Rocky Balboa. On February 27, 2004, actor Jim Caviezel called into the program to discuss The Passion of the Christ film, in which Caviezel played the role of Jesus Christ. Republican Vice-Presidential nominee Governor Sarah Palin (R-AK) also called into a show before a rally in October 2008 to discuss the election and the economic distortion and impact of Senator Obama's tax policy; Palin returned to the show in November 2009 to discuss her book Going Rogue. Phil Gingrey, a congressman who compared shows such as Limbaugh and Sean Hannity to "throwing bricks" in January 2009, gave an interview on Limbaugh's show the next day.

Limbaugh has also had author and Washington Times columnist Bill Gertz on his show to discuss Gertz's books as well as national security issues. In 2007, Limbaugh (among numerous other hosts) interviewed Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas and was the first to interview Tony Snow after his departure from his post as White House press secretary. He also interviewed NBC News host Tim Russert in 2004.[8] In May 2010, country musician John Rich reported for Limbaugh on the May 2010 Tennessee floods.

Donald Trump appeared on the show April 15, 2011; he offered to donate $100,000 to the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society, for which Limbaugh holds an annual radiothon.[9]


There's no reason for influential people to turn down Rush's show, as he does not have a pattern of visciousnessSo calling a woman a slut isn't visious? :rotf2:. Maher's show is as bad as it gets. Rush doesn't sing nearly as low as Maher.

Making fun of someone who got addicted to painkillers as a result of a car accident? Aren't you the one who criticized me for offensive language? See, there's that liberal hypocrisy at work. It's OK for you to call Rush a druggie, but I can't call Rachael Maddow names? Did I miss the announcement from God that only you are allowed to insult those you disagree with, and the rest of us have to be civilized? How come it's OK for you to insult, but not me?

So was he or was he not a druggie?

So was he or was he not a druggie?


He was indeed. And Rachael Maddow is also unattractive. I didn't say you lied, I said it's hypocritical for you to engage in the same behavior that you criticized me for.

Callink Ms Fluke a sl*t was viscious. But Rush apologized, and he hasn't done it since. You see, I never said Rush was perfect. But he's not a shock-jock like Maher.

Some of Maher's guests...
Rep Darrel Issa
Cnn analyst Amy Holmes
Senator Claire Mckaskill
Rep Jack Kingston
Tom Brokaw
former DNC chairman Terry McAuliffe
Labor Secretary Robert Reich
Rep Barney Frank (glad I missed that episode)
Rep Barbare Lee
Chris Matthews
Arianna Huffington
Gov Jon Corzine
economist Paul Krugman
Bob Woodward
Rep Maxine Waters
Senator Bernie Sanders
George Stefenappolis
Madeline Albright (former Sec of State)
Senator Bill Bradley
Howard Dean
Rep Heather Wilson
Janet Napolitano
Rachael Maddow
Al Sharpton
Jimmy Carter
Lawrence O'Donnell
Gov Ed Rendall
Michael Moore
Keith Olbermann

I could go on and on...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Real_Time_with_Bill_Maher_episodes






Columnist Clarence Paige

I'll give you Jimmy Carter b/c he was Pres. but at this point he ain't very influential. I don't even know who Heather Wilson, Jack Kingston, B. Lee
or Amy Holmes are. Having a sitting Pres. call into the program shows his influence. The Maher list isn't close to the Rush list.

As for Rachel - beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I'll give you Jimmy Carter b/c he was Pres. but at this point he ain't very influential. I don't even know who Heather Wilson, Jack Kingston, B. Lee
or Amy Holmes are. Having a sitting Pres. call into the program shows his influence. The Maher list isn't close to the Rush list.

As for Rachel - beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Rush apologized for what he said. Maher didn't.

Rush isn't known for R-rated language on the air, Maher is.

"I don't even know who Heather Wilson, Jack Kingston, B. Lee
or Amy Holmes are."

Maybe you should expand your knowledge a bit then. I could have gone on and on and on. Multiple senators, congressmen, heads of the DNC, big names in the media. But if Rush has 1 sitting president call, and Maher doesn't, that all by itself means you're right and I'm wrong?

Whatever...

Maybe you should expand your knowledge a bit then. Thanks, I'll take that under advisement :rotf2:I could have gone on and on and on. Multiple senators, congressmen, heads of the DNC, big names in the media. But if Rush has 1 sitting president call, and Maher doesn't, that all by itself means you're right and I'm wrong?I guess it does from looking at the lists.

Whatever..

Hey, if you don't believe that Rush has more influence than Maher, your not being realistic - Whatever :rotf2:

Rush isn't known for R-rated language on the air, Maher is.


Bill Maher is on HBO you twit, he's ALLOWED.

And who the #^&#^&#^&#^&ing #^&#^&#^&#^& cares your #^&#^&#^&#^&ing #^&#^&#^&#^&?

The name of the killer is Robert Bales. He had seen his buddies leg blown off the previous day and decided to jump into a bottle for solace.

I think what people are missing is this;
Probably wouldn't have happened if he didn't drink himself into a alcohol induced coma.

Sounds like a textbook blackout.

Firearms & Booze don't mix