Interesting no thread on this so far.

-spence

OK I'll bite! For one it happened a full month before it even made the news??? Odd??? Second.....this case is so diluted with "he said, she said"...Father of shooter making comments that are obviously second or more likely third hand accounts....seems to me the Sanford Police have screwed this case all to hell! Third this is plain and simple just a platform used by Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and the NAACP to fill their spare time and give their vocal cords a workout!!! The only ones who have mentioned a race issue in this case are the biggest racists that walk the planet today.....Sharpton and Jackson! Nobody close to the case mentioned race as a contributing factor....it never became an issue until these racist ass-clowns got up on their pulpit and spoke the words!!!!! Cases where a black man gets shot by a white man always seem to be cases of race......yet when a white man is killed by a black man its always just plain violence...never racial.....why is that???? Comical! Personally.....this is just a circus and I am glad it is near Orlando where it belongs right near DisneyWorld........I also could not care less at this point but if I did and I had an opinion....the only shread of evidence that is credible that I can see is the phone call from Zimmerman stating he is following someone who looks like they "are up to no good" and the Police tell him not to do that.....and he does anyway???? Given the outcome I think Zimmerman provoked the outcome and at the very least should be arrested and slapped with a manslaughter charge. If he was not out there playing security guard.....this probably would never have happened!

OK I'll bite! For one it happened a full month before it even made the news??? Odd??? Second.....this case is so diluted with "he said, she said"...Father of shooter making comments that are obviously second or more likely third hand accounts....seems to me the Sanford Police have screwed this case all to hell! Third this is plain and simple just a platform used by Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and the NAACP to fill their spare time and give their vocal cords a workout!!! The only ones who have mentioned a race issue in this case are the biggest racists that walk the planet today.....Sharpton and Jackson! Nobody close to the case mentioned race as a contributing factor....it never became an issue until these racist ass-clowns got up on their pulpit and spoke the words!!!!! Cases where a black man gets shot by a white man always seem to be cases of race......yet when a white man is killed by a black man its always just plain violence...never racial.....why is that???? Comical! Personally.....this is just a circus and I am glad it is near Orlando where it belongs right near DisneyWorld........I also could not care less at this point but if I did and I had an opinion....the only shread of evidence that is credible that I can see is the phone call from Zimmerman stating he is following someone who looks like they "are up to no good" and the Police tell him not to do that.....and he does anyway???? Given the outcome I think Zimmerman provoked the outcome and at the very least should be arrested and slapped with a manslaughter charge. If he was not out there playing security guard.....this probably would never have happened!

Hmmmm by all means go on good sir.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Media spurred and jaded account of the entire ordeal. Every picture shown is a photo three years old. Security wanna be looking for trouble,he found it.Ghetto martyr for the clowns the black community calls leaders.

I agree Chris....little do the Martins know its not for them......the "Powers that be" are using their son's death to further their own racist agenda!!

I guess gang members & thugs don't wear hoodies & dark glasses !

I wish Mega Millions was tonight because in a rare lunar alignment I agree with both Larry and Dangles at the same time.

The media has gone beyond their job (not in a good way). They brought light to this where it was needed and this at least deserves another look deeply into the facts to make sure justice was not missed. If Zimmerman and this case did not get the full inspection that it deserves, it certainly should. The Facts. They investigated and helped bring to light a possible injustice. The law should be color blind and the media too. But the media has since joined the ranks of the race baiters like Sharpton and now are doing a disservice to Trayvon.

Guys like Sharpton need events like this to survive and drive the point home of White -v- Black. This is their money gig. Their self licking Ice Cream Cone. Their industry of Racism, Inc.

Unfortunately, we should NOT be hearing from the President on this "If I had a son he would look like Trayvon" comment. He started off so well, stating this was a local matter and that he should not comment, and that he was glad the state of FL was investigating more. And then he pours fuel on the fire. Good election material for firing up people.

What we need is a just the facts mam Joe Friday investigation. No race, no opinion, just the facts.

Sadly we are not as far along as a country as I'd hoped. No Black Americans, no white Americans, just Americans. We ain't there yet.

I agree John....just "Americans"! Jackson and Sharpton try to act as though they are against racism but the fact is they are just against racism against black Americans! They do exist just for times like these and they never make things better.....they are nothing but divisive users who exploit situations like these and turn them into a "black vs. white" thing!!! I would like 30 seconds with these 2 morons to point out who the racists are....its Jackson and Sharpton!!

Then you have the black panther gangstas putting a bounty out and the real criminals come to light....

Then you have the black panther gangstas putting a bounty out and the real criminals come to light....
"the real criminals?" They are criminals, yes, but the real criminals implies that the guy who follows and shoots an unarmed kid is not a criminal. That isn't what you meant, is it?

"the real criminals?" They are criminals, yes, but the real criminals implies that the guy who follows and shoots an unarmed kid is not a criminal. That isn't what you meant, is it?

Zimmy, you liberals crack me up. You all still have egg dripping on your faces from the Duke lacrosse case. Remember that? In the immediate aftermath of that accusation, all the liberals were crucifying the accused lacrosse players, the NAACP established a college scholarship fund for the victim (who turned out to be a murderer). Do ANY liberals remember how that turned out?

Despite recent empirical evidence showing how stupid it is to jump to conclusions, all of the same liberal hucksters are now saying the exact same things about this case. Earth to liberals...they are investigating. A special state prosecutor has been assigned, and the Justice Dept is looking into federal violations. If Zimmerman broke the law, he'll answer for that. But how about we let the pro's determine which, if any, laws were actually broken here. There is a presumption of innocence in this country, and that applies even when the deceased happens to be black.

"the real criminals?" They are criminals, yes, but the real criminals implies that the guy who follows and shoots an unarmed kid is not a criminal. That isn't what you meant, is it?

So you must know this as fact. Please tell us how.

So you must know this as fact. Please tell us how.

Here's how he knows this as fact...because it supports his liberal narrative, and that's good enough for most liberals...Why quibble over trivial details, such as what actually happened for example? Details, shmetails...

you liberals crack me up. .

And you classless teabagging conservatives crack me up.:rotf2: Ruin another thread.

And you classless teabagging conservatives crack me up.:rotf2: Ruin another thread.

Paul, what did I say that's not true, exactly? Anything?

In the immediate aftermath of the Duke lacrosse case, before anyone knew what happened, the accused lacrosse players were excoriated by liberals in the media. They all looked very stupid when the truth came out, and the important lesson to be learned was not to convict the accused before the facts are known.

A few years later, we have this horrible situation in FL. The liberals are doing the exact same thing (the media nitwits, in addition to professional agitators like Sharpton). They have learned nothing from their ambarassing performance in the Duke lacrosse case. Zimmy implied that Zimmerman is a real criminal. Unless Zimmy knows something about this case that the media hasn't released yet, it's premature to conclude that...

I'm deeply sorry if my pointing out the irrefutable truth about the bias and incompetence of liberals in these cases, and their stubborn, inexplicable refusal to learn from their embarassing mistakes, has ruined this thread for you.

sadly only 2 people know what really happened and one's not coming down for breakfast.......

I guess gang members & thugs don't wear hoodies & dark glasses !

http://images.wikia.com/criminalminds/images/9/9e/Unabomber-sketch.png

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
Homicide
Negligent Manslaughter
Unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act

Yeah he's going to jail.

http://images.wikia.com/criminalminds/images/9/9e/Unabomber-sketch.png


When I was a young punk I wore a hoodie too, doesn't mean all hoodies are punks or all punks wear hoodies.


http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
Homicide
Negligent Manslaughter
Unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act

Yeah he's going to jail.

And if the facts determined by proper authorities support an arrest by the police or a grand jury - let them arrest Zimmerman and let the legal process work.

That's kinda my Spring and Fall fishing uniform. "But officer he was carrying a huge stick and a filet knife so I shot him".

I often carry Skittles when I fish!:uhuh:

Who wears a hoodie in Fla. on an 80+ degree night? With the the hood up?

didn't realize they still had "neighborhood watches" these days. If this was a black guy shooting a black guy, white guy shooting white guy etc, we wouldnt be talking about it. What bothers me more is that young mother that was killed/raped in Vermont with her 2 year old sitting in the care. That poor kid has no mother and she was trying to help someone. Why isn't that the top news story? Because Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson (2 biggest racists in the history of the world) are media hores and turning this into their gain. It's a shame someone dies and those to clowns stick there face in the camera as much as they can.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Paul, what did I say that's not true, exactly? Anything?



It is the constant lumping together of everyone into the same group b/c you hate liberals. B/c you think you can make a connections, you constantly do it. It didn't ruin the thread for me. It just shows how much hate you seem to have inside you.

Would it be any different if I posted a picture of a tea party member holding a racist sign, said Jim acknowledges he is a tea party member, and said therefore Jim is racist. That is exactly what you constantly do.

Americans"! Jackson and Sharpton try to act as though they are against racism but the fact is they are just against racism against black Americans! They do exist just for times like these and they never make things better.....they are nothing but divisive users who exploit situations like these and turn them into a "black vs. white" thing!!! I would like 30 seconds with these 2 morons to point out who the racists are....its Jackson and Sharpton!!

Funny, w/o those 2 you wouldn't have heard about it. While they do make jack asses of themselves at times, they do bring light to some racist acts. According to the FBI, with like 12.5% of the pop, blacks are targets of like 70% of all racial hate crime in the US. I'm sure that if those 2 stopped discussing racism, you'd step up though.

Funny, w/o those 2 you wouldn't have heard about it. While they do make jack asses of themselves at times, they do bring light to some racist acts. According to the FBI, with like 12.5% of the pop, blacks are targets of like 70% of all racial hate crime in the US. I'm sure that if those 2 stopped discussing racism, you'd step up though.

It's one thing to step up when it IS racism....its another thing to always "step up" and make it about race.

That is what those 2 guys always seem to do.

What they do is dilute what is actually the problem with racism in the country by always "Crying Wolf" every chance they get.

Sometimes you actually lost your job because you're lazy...not because your black

Sometimes the Man actually got the promotion because he's the better choice...not because you are a women.

if people stopped claiming it everytime something doesn't go their way....maybe it might finally get fixed....

Very interesting column....

Trayvon Martin case exposes worst in media | The Cutline - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/trayvon-martin-case-exposes-worst-media-210020839.html)

"NBC told the Washington Post that it has launched an internal investigation of the "Today" show's editorial process after its morning show aired an edited conversation between George Zimmerman and a 911 dispatcher recorded moments before the shooting. The investigation came after Fox News and others pointed out that the network spliced two parts of the call together, making it appear as if Zimmerman had said, "This guy looks like he's up to no good. He looks black." In reality, Zimmerman was answering a dispatcher's question:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he's up to no good. Or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

Dispatcher: OK, and this guy--is he black, white or Hispanic?

Zimmerman: He looks black."

Damn that Fox news!!!

Allot of our problems are brought on by the media. It works both ways, less we forget the Charles Stewart case.
The media is not about the truth!!!!

the reason this topic was not previously brought up here because its not politics. But if you look at responses from politicians, guess which one is trying to make this political, which one is pointing fingers? I'll let PaulS answer.......

the reason this topic was not previously brought up here because its not politics. But if you look at responses from politicians, guess which one is trying to make this political, which one is pointing fingers? I'll let PaulS answer.......

Looks to me like Bigfish tried to make it political here. If you mean Sharpton/Jackson (are they politicians?), I could care less what they say. I usually ignore the article or the news cast.

All that and nobody has bothered to mention the most basic and important aspect of this case.

-spence

All that and nobody has bothered to mention the most basic and important aspect of this case.

-spence

His Mom looking to make money off it??

All that and nobody has bothered to mention the most basic and important aspect of this case.

-spence

Which is what?

Tragicially, a kid got killed. That's something that needs to be investigated, and lo and behold, the state (and the feds) are investigating. As far as I can tell, the system is working perfectly.

Now, professional agitators, and other liberal media types who view everything through the prism of black versus white, are painting this as a white lynching. Is Zimmerman even white?

Earth to race-baiters...it's not always about race.

It is the constant lumping together of everyone into the same group b/c you hate liberals. B/c you think you can make a connections, you constantly do it. It didn't ruin the thread for me. It just shows how much hate you seem to have inside you.

.

Get over yourself. How many sentences have you started with "tea baggers...". SO it's OK for you to make generalizations, but no one else can do it?

You, the one who loves the term tea-baggers, is claiming I'm full of hate. Interesting...

All that and nobody has bothered to mention the most basic and important aspect of this case.

-spence

how is that politics? Very few of the basic elements have been released, mostly speculation and opinion. The most important and basic aspect of the case is EVIDENCE. Very little has been released.

The cops that arrived at the scene must have been able to tell if Zimmerman was injured. If Trayvon was involved in any physical conflict, he would have bruises on his hands if he hit Zimm. Whats the autopsy say? DNA? Scene of altercatin?There should be some good evidence any way you look at it but the evidence has not been released.

Which is what?

Tragicially, a kid got killed. That's something that needs to be investigated, and lo and behold, the state (and the feds) are investigating. As far as I can tell, the system is working perfectly.

Now, professional agitators, and other liberal media types who view everything through the prism of black versus white, are painting this as a white lynching. Is Zimmerman even white?

Earth to race-baiters...it's not always about race.

best ever - Zimmerman was reported by the media as a "white hispanic" Absolutely brilliant!
That would make president O a white african american. Nope, no media bias here!

Get over yourself. How many sentences have you started with "tea baggers...". SO it's OK for you to make generalizations, but no one else can do it?

You, the one who loves the term tea-baggers, is claiming I'm full of hate. Interesting...

Go look at all my use of the term teabaggers. I bet you'll find that it is all in response to your making generalizations about liberals.

He got suspended from school for 10 days the day of his death.

Originally Posted by zimmy
"the real criminals?" They are criminals, yes, but the real criminals implies that the guy who follows and shoots an unarmed kid is not a criminal. That isn't what you meant, is it?



So you must know this as fact. Please tell us how.

I am not sure what you mean. "know this as fact?" What are you talking about? The black panthers? Yes, the bounty makes them criminals. As far as Zimmerman, there is no disputing that he followed the kid. The kid was unarmed. The kid got shot. No one disputes that.

He got suspended from school for 10 days the day of his death.

Marijuana possession. Definitely reason to get followed and shot walking back to your girlfriends place. Is this a different discussion if it is an adult black guy who follows an unarmed kid and shoots him? What if Trayvon pulled a weapon and defended himself with it?

Originally Posted by zimmy
"the real criminals?" They are criminals, yes, but the real criminals implies that the guy who follows and shoots an unarmed kid is not a criminal. That isn't what you meant, is it?





I am not sure what you mean. "know this as fact?" What are you talking about? The black panthers? Yes, the bounty makes them criminals. As far as Zimmerman, there is no disputing that he followed the kid. The kid was unarmed. The kid got shot. No one disputes that.

I missed it...what crime has Zimmerman been charged and convicted of?

Marijuana possession. Definitely reason to get followed and shot walking back to your girlfriends place. Is this a different discussion if it is an adult black guy who follows an unarmed kid and shoots him? What if Trayvon pulled a weapon and defended himself with it?

I dont think anyone is saying he deserved it. I think people are putting out facts that may or may not have relevance. The media and news reports have been pretty one sided. Originally I thought this was a little boy that was killed based on the pics and reaction. Now it seems were dealing with more that originally thought. Let the investigation happen and lets review the evidence.

Zimmy, you have a bright future as an interpreter of sorts. Every statement I make you have an uncanny ability to interpret to your liking. A Kreskin-like gift you either developed or were born with,kudos.

Apparently in a 3 day period in the same week this kid was killed in Florida , in Obama's home city of Chicago there were 23 murders.
Don't think Obama made a comment on one of them nor did Jessie Jackson or Al Sharpton.
I'll bet $ all 23 in Chicago were black on black murders !

I bet you are 100% correct Ron!

Apparently in a 3 day period in the same week this kid was killed in Florida , in Obama's home city of Chicago there were 23 murders.
Don't think Obama made a comment on one of them nor did Jessie Jackson or Al Sharpton.
I'll bet $ all 23 in Chicago were black on black murders !

I'll bet you got that from a retarded e-mail forward thats completely wrong!

:rotf2:

Apparently in a 3 day period in the same week this kid was killed in Florida , in Obama's home city of Chicago there were 23 murders.
Don't think Obama made a comment on one of them nor did Jessie Jackson or Al Sharpton.
I'll bet $ all 23 in Chicago were black on black murders !
And I'll bet all of these were acts of murder, homicide or manslaughter. From what I've read the actual rate of guns used to kill in self defense is really, really low.

In the Zimmerman situation, you have a guy with multiple arrests for violence, who's carrying when he's not supposed to be, perusing a person he's not supposed to be and placing himself into harms way by engaging with someone he himself has declared suspicious which he also knows he's not supposed to be doing. The police would have known all this when he was in custody.

The lead investigator doesn't believe his story and wants him held and charged with manslaughter.

Because he claims self defense the burden is now on the police to find enough evidence he's lying, which the State says they don't have, so he walks a few hours later after killing a teenager with a bag of Skittles.

Something really isn't right here.

-spence

Zimmy, you have a bright future as an interpreter of sorts. Every statement I make you have an uncanny ability to interpret to your liking. A Kreskin-like gift you either developed or were born with,kudos.

What was your reason for posting the information for then? Maybe if you elaborated, others wouldn't have to extrapolate meaning. Did you post that to point out what a terribly crappy day he had that started with suspension for pot and ended in the morgue? I guess I am not Kreskin, heck I can't remember responding to your other posts. I will refrain from now on :)

I missed it...what crime has Zimmerman been charged and convicted of?
Oh, is it the act, the arrest, or the conviction that makes someone a criminal? The lack of arrest precludes him from being a criminal? If so, then so does the lack of conviction. I guess the black panthers you referenced aren't criminals then, either. What were you talking about then?

And I'll bet all of these were acts of murder, homicide or manslaughter.
-spence

Spence, the facts of the cases are irrelevant. Haven't you learned anything here? It doesn't matter that the lead investigator recommended arrest in this case. The faulty use of a self defense laws is irrelevant. You are so nuts, you probably think that a jury should decide the merits of the case, rather than have a police department overrule the lead investigator. Crazy anti-constitution liberal.

Zimmerman has stood trial for assaulting a police officer.

I still don't know why the media insist on showing only pictures of Trayvon as an 11 year old.

I still don't know why the media insist on showing only pictures of Trayvon as an 11 year old.
I'm not sure there are that many to choose from. A quick Google image search only shows the younger photo, the hoodie photo and a few random ones with his dad.

-spence

Spence, the facts of the cases are irrelevant. Haven't you learned anything here? It doesn't matter that the lead investigator recommended arrest in this case. The faulty use of a self defense laws is irrelevant. You are so nuts, you probably think that a jury should decide the merits of the case, rather than have a police department overrule the lead investigator. Crazy anti-constitution liberal.
I don't think Zimmerman is a monster, most likely he just really, really, really, really 'effed up.

What does surprise me though is how the State responded to the event. While Zimmerman has rights to be respected, it seems like they really rushed him out the door and back on the street.

Why?

-spence

Oh, is it the act, the arrest, or the conviction that makes someone a criminal? The lack of arrest precludes him from being a criminal? If so, then so does the lack of conviction. I guess the black panthers you referenced aren't criminals then, either. What were you talking about then?


You don't know what "the act" was or how it happened. He has not been arrested or convicted. I'm pretty sure then he should not be called a criminal.
I never said anything about the black panthers.

I don't think Zimmerman is a monster, most likely he just really, really, really, really 'effed up.

What does surprise me though is how the State responded to the event. While Zimmerman has rights to be respected, it seems like they really rushed him out the door and back on the street.

Why?

-spence

Spence, here is WHY

look at the EVIDENCE immediatly after the incident. Witnesses account that they saw MARTIN holding down Zimmerman. Police officer at the scene noted that zimmerman had wounds to his nose and back of his head.
there you go, thats enough evidence that Zimmerman acted in self defence.
Its not a cut and dry case as some are making it out to be.

Then you have the black panther gangstas putting a bounty out and the real criminals come to light....

"the real criminals?" They are criminals, yes, but the real criminals implies that the guy who follows and shoots an unarmed kid is not a criminal. That isn't what you meant, is it?

So you must know this as fact. Please tell us how.

Originally Posted by zimmy

I am not sure what you mean. "know this as fact?" What are you talking about? The black panthers? Yes, the bounty makes them criminals. As far as Zimmerman, there is no disputing that he followed the kid. The kid was unarmed. The kid got shot. No one disputes that.

You don't know what "the act" was or how it happened. He has not been arrested or convicted. I'm pretty sure then he should not be called a criminal.
I never said anything about the black panthers.


The chain of responses is above. As I said, I didn't know what you were referring to when you said "so you know this as fact." It was an ambiguous statement. Someone else brought up who the "real criminals are" right before your post. I don't know if he is a criminal. I didn't bring that up. I do know that the lead investigator recommended arrest. It should go through the courts. That is the crux of the problem. Let the judicial system decide the case. Trayvon had him pinned to the ground? So what? What about his right to defend himself? He was followed at night by a guy twice his size. It should go to the courts. Who made the decision not to arrest him?? That isn't even clear. I support right to defend, but the burden falls on the defender to show force was necessary. Otherwise, we have a lawless society.

interpreter

The courts will sort it out,Florida has unique gun laws.

interpreter

The courts will sort it out,Florida has unique gun laws.

They're 'stand your ground' not 'follow black kids around'.

interpreter

The courts will sort it out,Florida has unique gun laws.

Of what is this an interpretation? The courts don't get to sort it out without an arrest.

Spence, here is WHY

look at the EVIDENCE immediatly after the incident. Witnesses account that they saw MARTIN holding down Zimmerman. Police officer at the scene noted that zimmerman had wounds to his nose and back of his head.
there you go, thats enough evidence that Zimmerman acted in self defence.
Its not a cut and dry case as some are making it out to be.

Interesting thing is that one witness says that he couldn't see the details because it was dark. Police grilled him, and according the the witnesses mother, pressured him into choosing a sweatshirt color by multiple choice. Other witnesses say they heard what sounded like a child cry out right before the shot. Add to that the video footage that shows no evidence of injury to Zimmerman and it is pretty clear the courts should decide.

They're 'stand your ground' not 'follow black kids around'.

I know Ted.
He does have the right to defend himself with deadly force though.
Brockton could use a vigilante,keeps the animals in line.
Kids will think twice before packing skittles now.

Of what is this an interpretation? The courts don't get to sort it out without an arrest.

Then I will refer to it as the "legal system".
Give it a chance to work before assuming judge and jury responsibilities.

Interesting thing is that one witness says that he couldn't see the details because it was dark. Police grilled him, and according the the witnesses mother, pressured him into choosing a sweatshirt color by multiple choice. Other witnesses say they heard what sounded like a child cry out right before the shot. Add to that the video footage that shows no evidence of injury to Zimmerman and it is pretty clear the courts should decide.

that was yesterdays news..

Enhanced surveillance images of George Zimmerman, the man who admitted shooting the teen but claimed self-defense, appear to show a bump, mark or injury on the back of his head.

Then I will refer to it as the "legal system".
Give it a chance to work before assuming judge and jury responsibilities.

exactly

Add to that the video footage that shows no evidence of injury to Zimmerman and it is pretty clear the courts should decide.

Zimmy, watch where you get your information...

Trayvon Martin case: George Zimmerman video shows gashes on back of shooter's head | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2124095/Trayvon-Martin-case-George-Zimmerman-video-shows-gashes-shooters-head.html)

This is some recent enhanced footage which shows bruising to the back of his head...I am not vouching for the authenticity.

The media gets an "F" for reporting this. Have you heard what "The Today Show" did?

‘He Looks Black’: NBC Launching Investigation into Selective Editing of Zimmerman Police Tape | Video | TheBlaze.com (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/he-looks-black-nbc-launches-internal-investigation-into-selective-editing-of-zimmerman-police-tape/)

According to NBC, in talking to the dispatcher, Zimmerman said this...

"This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.”

NBC clearly wanted its audience to think that Zimmerman equates black with "up to no good". However, in the unedited version of that call, after Zimmerman said the kid looked like he was up to no good, the dispatcher ASKED Zimmerman what color the kid was. All Zimmerman did was answer the question that was asked. Who broke this story? The liars at Foxnews...

It's incredible to me that NBC has any credibility. The folks who spliced that audio put Zimmerman's life in danger for the purposes of sensationalizing the footage, and - shockingly - they edited the footage to make it appear in the most racist possible light.

If NBC had any credibility whatsoever, it has none now. Zip. They put this guy's life in danger.

Then I will refer to it as the "legal system".
Give it a chance to work before assuming judge and jury responsibilities.

exactly

At least we agree on that, just have a different interpretation of what that means. Police are not judge and jury.

At least we agree on that, just have a different interpretation of what that means. Police are not judge and jury.

no, but the police gather the evidence and do the investigation. we have ZERO output from their investigation. All we know if they havent arrested Zimmerman. Thats it.

Zimmerman referred to Martin as a spook on the call.

no, but the police gather the evidence and do the investigation. we have ZERO output from their investigation. All we know if they havent arrested Zimmerman. Thats it.

The partial report was released by the police. Doesn't provide much information. We know that Trayvon didn't have a gun or knife or any weapon. We know that the law as written in Florida says that the force must be necessary to "prevent imminent death or great bodily harm." The phone conversations show that Trayvon was followed. Zimmerman admits that he is following him. Combine those details with burden the law places on the person who kills and with the lead investigators concerns about the legitimacy of Zimmerman's story. I make no judgement about whether he should be convicted, but it is crystal clear that his parents are completely justified to call bs on the whole system that let the guy walk. If one of my kids or someone I love is walking around Florida unarmed, gets followed, and ends up shot, the shooter had better darn well have to prove it was necessary to "prevent imminent death or great bodily harm."

Why is this case considered "political"?

Spence, here is WHY

look at the EVIDENCE immediatly after the incident. Witnesses account that they saw MARTIN holding down Zimmerman. Police officer at the scene noted that zimmerman had wounds to his nose and back of his head.
there you go, thats enough evidence that Zimmerman acted in self defence.
Its not a cut and dry case as some are making it out to be.
Nobody is saying it's cut and dry, the argument is that in fact it was obfuscated enough to merit more diligence.

Even if Martin had gained the upper hand in the struggle the police would have known that Zimmerman should have been in his car waiting for the police.

And even then, if I engage you in a fight and I'm losing (which isn't likely :hihi:) should I have the right to shoot you dead when you're unarmed?

The burden should have been on the investigation to show this clearly wasn't a manslaughter case...

-spence

Nobody is saying it's cut and dry, the argument is that in fact it was obfuscated enough to merit more diligence.

Even if Martin had gained the upper hand in the struggle the police would have known that Zimmerman should have been in his car waiting for the police.

And even then, if I engage you in a fight and I'm losing (which isn't likely :hihi:) should I have the right to shoot you dead when you're unarmed?

The burden should have been on the investigation to show this clearly wasn't a manslaughter case...

-spence

Spence, the man is presumed innocent, and the burden of proof is always, always, on the state to prove otherwise. The accused never has to prove his innocence, the system was intentionally not set up as you would have it work...

And even then, if I engage you in a fight and I'm losing (which isn't likely :hihi:) should I have the right to shoot you dead when you're unarmed?


-spence

That's a key question. However, we still don't know for sure that Zimmerman engaged this kid (although that's what I would assume). As I said earlier, it seems to me that liberal types and racial hucksters learned absolutely nothing from the Duke lacrosse case, and the nightmare you put those kids through. You're doing the same exact thing.

Spence, the man is presumed innocent, and the burden of proof is always, always, on the state to prove otherwise. The accused never has to prove his innocence, the system was intentionally not set up as you would have it work...
Presumption of innocence has a bearing on the final outcome, not necessarily the charge...You could be charged with manslaughter, you're still presumed innocent until found guilty.

That's a key question. However, we still don't know for sure that Zimmerman engaged this kid (although that's what I would assume). As I said earlier, it seems to me that liberal types and racial hucksters learned absolutely nothing from the Duke lacrosse case, and the nightmare you put those kids through. You're doing the same exact thing.
I would think that had he told an accurate story to the police they would have known he was on the neighborhood watch and set out on foot to presume someone he had identified as suspicious. This was later confirmed by the 911 recording. This alone should have given the police pause and it would seem as though the lead investigator wasn't convinced his story was consistent.

This is the nut of the whole case, why the State would rush to release someone under such circumstances. Some clearly think it was racism...

-spence

this little tidbit aint getting a lot of attention from the media...

“You will recall the incident of the beating of the black homeless man Sherman Ware on December 4, 2010 by the son of a Sanford police officer. The beating sparked outrage in the community but there were very few that stepped up to do anything about it. I would presume the inaction was because of the fact that he was homeless not because he was black. Do you know the individual who stepped up when no one else in the black community would? Do you know who spent tireless hours putting flyers on the cars of persons parked in the churches of the black community? Do you know who waited for the church-goers to get out of church so that he could hand them flyers in an attempt to organize the black community against this horrible miscarriage of justice? Do you know who helped organize the City Hall meeting on January 8, 2011 at Sanford City Hall?? That person was GEORGE ZIMMERMAN.” – from a letter to Turner Clayton of the Seminole County NAACP written by “a concerned Zimmerman family member”

Interesting thing is that one witness says that he couldn't see the details because it was dark. Police grilled him, and according the the witnesses mother, pressured him into choosing a sweatshirt color by multiple choice. Other witnesses say they heard what sounded like a child cry out right before the shot. Add to that the video footage that shows no evidence of injury to Zimmerman and it is pretty clear the courts should decide.


You need to look at the video when blownup by a tv station that is unbiased and it clearly shows two scraping type wounds to the back of Zimmerman's head. Which by the way had been attended to and cleaned up by paramedics at the scene. I would want you on any jury that I had anything to do with.

Presumption of innocence has a bearing on the final outcome, not necessarily the charge...You could be charged with manslaughter, you're still presumed innocent until found guilty.


I would think that had he told an accurate story to the police they would have known he was on the neighborhood watch and set out on foot to presume someone he had identified as suspicious. This was later confirmed by the 911 recording. This alone should have given the police pause and it would seem as though the lead investigator wasn't convinced his story was consistent.

This is the nut of the whole case, why the State would rush to release someone under such circumstances. Some clearly think it was racism...

-spence

Spence, you said the burden should have been to prove that he didn't commit a crime. That's not the way he works. The presumption of innocence does not begin at trial, it exists all along.

"why the State would rush to release someone under such circumstances."

Someone who knows a bit more than you thought it was premature to arrest. Let's see how it plays out.

"Some clearly think it was racism..."

Yes. Some of the same folks who cried racism in the first days of the Duke lacrosse case. How did that work out for the race-baiters?? Not so well, as I recall.

We need to stop crying "racism" every single time something like this happens, before we know what happened. It may have been racially motivated. Let's see before we pin that label on the guy. Is that unreasonable?

You need to look at the video when blownup by a tv station that is unbiased and it clearly shows two scraping type wounds to the back of Zimmerman's head. Which by the way had been attended to and cleaned up by paramedics at the scene. I would want you on any jury that I had anything to do with.

Yeah, I've seen it. He certainly doesn't look like he was in imminent threat of death or great bodily harm to justify shooting an unarmed person. Good point, both videos do seem to indicate the use of dealy force may not have been necessary. Why would the guy with the gun need to scream for help if he could shoot the kid anyway? Instead of help me, maybe get off me or I will shoot you?

this little tidbit aint getting a lot of attention from the media...



The race part is irrelevant in my opinion and both sides are ignoring what is the bigger point. Unarmed kid followed by unprovoked armed adult and shot. No evidence of threat to life of shooter, beyond a few scrapes. Shooter never warned dead kid "get off or I will kill you." Screams on 911 call at time of shot shown not to be shooter. Give me a break. This shouldn't be about race or politics. It should be about the circumstances and whether it should go into the judiciary.

. No evidence of threat to life of shooter, beyond a few scrapes. you know this how? CNN? Shooter never warned dead kid "get off or I will kill you." You must have been there, wow, have you called the investigators and let them know?
Screams on 911 call at time of shot shown not to be shooter. Uh, by 2 experts hired by the media, another one said it was inconclusive, this was not part of the investigation, it was from the media
. This shouldn't be about race or politics. It should be about the circumstances and whether it should go into the judiciary. agreed

you keep posting one sided, un proven, evidence

Spence, you said the burden should have been to prove that he didn't commit a crime. That's not the way he works. The presumption of innocence does not begin at trial, it exists all along.
In RI had the same situation occurred the shooter would have probably been detained and charged with at least manslaughter. They would still be presumed innocent mind you.

-spence

In RI had the same situation occurred the shooter would have probably been detained and charged with at least manslaughter. They would still be presumed innocent mind you.

-spence

Twio key words that make your point moot Spence. You said "if" and "probably".

you keep posting one sided, un proven, evidence

The 911 phone call lasted for a substantial amount of time.. Did you listen to it? Also, I have seen the high detail video. It seems, to use one of your buddies on here favorite terms , common sense, that imminent threat of death or severe bodily harm would have caused a bit more damage. You right it is unproven but he did shoot and kill someone, who was unarmed. If Martin had busted into Zimmerman's house or gone after Zimmerman with a weapon without the provocation of chasing after him in the dark, it isn't even a story. It is the details that make it a story. I post what is reported about the night, you post a mostly irrelevant letter from a family member; irrelevant from a legal standpoint since the question isn't whether he killed him because of his race, but if he killed him because his own life was imminently threatened.

The great part about gun laws in Florida is that you DO NOT have to say "get off or I will kill you". You simply squeeze the trigger and deal with the consequences.

Twio key words that make your point moot Spence. You said "if" and "probably".

Never said if and no it's not moot, time to think critically Jim.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Then I will refer to it as the "legal system".
Give it a chance to work before assuming judge and jury responsibilities.

Zimmerman's grandfather being a retired judge and mother a court clerk may of had an effect on how this case was handled.

In RI had the same situation occurred the shooter would have probably been detained and charged with at least manslaughter. They would still be presumed innocent mind you.

-spence

Don't know about RI, but in most states criminal charges are filed by prosecutors (not police) after thorough investigation reveals enough evidence to win the case at trial. Also, in most cases, there is a short time period that a defendant can be held or released if no charge is made. So it is prudent to not arrest a person too quickly if not enough evidence has been revealed. It's better, in serious crimes, to get your ducks in a row. If you charge someone with a crime, that begins the criminal process which can include a grand jury or prelliminary hearing and that quickly leads to a trial. If you postpone the arrest and charges, you have more time to gather enough evidence to be successful at trial.

If you charge someone with a crime, that begins the criminal process which can include a grand jury or prelliminary hearing and that quickly leads to a trial. If you postpone the arrest and charges, you have more time to gather enough evidence to be successful at trial.

Agree, and that is a good enough reason to delay an arrest. However, I think the problem with the whole story is that I believe the family wasn't explained that and enough kept informed of what was going on in the investigation. I haven't seen the police come out and say those things. Thus, the family and public seem to think the investigation was screwed up. The police should have taken blood/alchohol tests of Zimmerman but didn't.

Also, it is my understanding that the way the law is written, once Zimmerman claimed self defense, the police had to prove it wasn't. The burden of proof may be different???

The 911 phone call lasted for a substantial amount of time.. Did you listen to it? Also, I have seen the high detail video. It seems, to use one of your buddies on here favorite terms , common sense, that imminent threat of death or severe bodily harm would have caused a bit more damage. You right it is unproven but he did shoot and kill someone, who was unarmed. If Martin had busted into Zimmerman's house or gone after Zimmerman with a weapon without the provocation of chasing after him in the dark, it isn't even a story. It is the details that make it a story. I post what is reported about the night, you post a mostly irrelevant letter from a family member; irrelevant from a legal standpoint since the question isn't whether he killed him because of his race, but if he killed him because his own life was imminently threatened.

"that imminent threat of death or severe bodily harm would have caused a bit more damage"

Are you a forensic doctor now? I've seen dead bodies of dead soldiers, and the only visible wound is a tiny dot somewhere where the bullet went in. The reasonableness of imminent threat of death is not based on the intensity of visible wounds. You don't necessarily need to leave a mark on someone in order for them to reasonably assume serious injury is imminent.

This is going to be a tough case investigate. Too many unknowns, and only one person is available to tell his side.

If it's true that Zimmerman was a crusader to hold cops accountable for racially-motivated beatings, it's interesting that his heroics there don't get as much media play as the doctored 911 call teryiong to paint him as a racist...

The 911 phone call lasted for a substantial amount of time.. Did you listen to it? Also, I have seen the high detail video. It seems, to use one of your buddies on here favorite terms , common sense, that imminent threat of death or severe bodily harm would have caused a bit more damage. You right it is unproven but he did shoot and kill someone, who was unarmed. If Martin had busted into Zimmerman's house or gone after Zimmerman with a weapon without the provocation of chasing after him in the dark, it isn't even a story. It is the details that make it a story. I post what is reported about the night, you post a mostly irrelevant letter from a family member; irrelevant from a legal standpoint since the question isn't whether he killed him because of his race, but if he killed him because his own life was imminently threatened.

If someone was on top of you and slamming your head into the ground in the dark, and you couldn't see if they had a weapon, would you maybe think your life was being threatened? I guess Trayvon must have been telling Zimmerman not to worry because he was just giving him a beating and not really trying to hurt him. Unless you've been in the same situation, don't try to assume what either person was thinking at the time of the incident. You'd probably poop your pants if a punk kid in a hoodie came at you.

The 911 phone call lasted for a substantial amount of time.. Did you listen to it? Also, I have seen the high detail video. It seems, to use one of your buddies on here favorite terms , common sense, that imminent threat of death or severe bodily harm would have caused a bit more damage. You right it is unproven but he did shoot and kill someone, who was unarmed. If Martin had busted into Zimmerman's house or gone after Zimmerman with a weapon without the provocation of chasing after him in the dark, it isn't even a story. It is the details that make it a story. I post what is reported about the night, you post a mostly irrelevant letter from a family member; irrelevant from a legal standpoint since the question isn't whether he killed him because of his race, but if he killed him because his own life was imminently threatened.

My only point in posting the letter was to show a side (potentially, I have no idea if its true) the media is not showing of Z. I have stated all along that we need to know the evidence before passing judgement. I have no clue what happened. If it was purely up to me, Z would be behind bars. But thats my heart, not my head. We dont know the details but I have to believe that there should be forensic evidence eaither way
There is a contant theme among liberals to immediatly doubt the police. I immediately believe the police. I was disqualified from a jury 2 yrs ago for a murder trial. I was asked if I would tend to believe the testimony of a police officer over a normal citizen and I said yes. I think on average, most cops are good people trying to do good things. I think most citizens suck

I guess Trayvon must have been telling Zimmerman not to worry because he was just giving him a beating and not really trying to hurt him.

Missing the point completely. But, if I am going after a "punk kid in a hoodie" (not sure where you come off calling him that) with my 9mm on me, I better not be the kind of person who poops themselves if the kid comes back at me. That points to one of the cardinal rules of gun ownership.

My only point in posting the letter was to show a side (potentially, I have no idea if its true) the media is not showing of Z. I was asked if I would tend to believe the testimony of a police officer over a normal citizen and I said yes. I think on average, most cops are good people trying to do good things. I think most citizens suck

I think cops are citizens and like all realms of society, there are mostly good cops and a few bad. However, in this circumstance, I am suspicious that there may have been a tendency by some in the chain of command to hide behind the stand your ground law. Most citizens suck...interesting. That would make an interesting study, the correlation between opinions about citizens and political affiliations/tendencies.

Missing the point completely. But, if I am going after a "punk kid in a hoodie" (not sure where you come off calling him that) with my 9mm on me, I better not be the kind of person who poops themselves if the kid comes back at me. That points to one of the cardinal rules of gun ownership.


There you go assuming again. There is nothing to show that Zimmerman went after Martin initially, just speculation (which you seem to take as fact). And based on the trouble the kid had been in in and out of school, he is a punk in my opinion. Just because he's a victim of a shooting doesn't make him a good kid.

[QUOTE=zimmy;931519]But, if I am going after a "punk kid in a hoodie" (not sure where you come off calling him that) QUOTE]

Most kids that get suspended from school for 10 days are "punk kids"

Doesn't mean he should have been killed but lets face it, he was no model kid

That would make an interesting study, the correlation between opinions about citizens and political affiliations/tendencies.

it would only make an interesting study if you stereotype.
Im a conservative who is not religious, believes in gay marriage, pro-life and that 99% of drugs should be legalized. Put me in the margin of error of your study. As someone who tries to be a thoughtful member of society, most people I run into suck.

There you go assuming again. There is nothing to show that Zimmerman went after Martin initially, just speculation

Speculation? Zimmerman said he followed him on the call to the police, and later in his report to police. Trayvon said he was being followed on the call to his girlfriend. That isn't speculation. This is friggin ridiculous.

But, if I am going after a "punk kid in a hoodie" (not sure where you come off calling him that)

Most kids that get suspended from school for 10 days are "punk kids"

Doesn't mean he should have been killed but lets face it, he was no model kid
Kids get suspended from school all the time. I am sure if you took a poll of this site, you would find plenty of suspensions on here. He was suspended for possession of marijuana. "most kids who get suspened are punks?" :yak5: Scary stuff creeping out of the woodwork on here.

I did a lot of crap in HS but if I got suspended my dad would have broken every bone in my body.

Kids get suspended from school all the time. I am sure if you took a poll of this site, you would find plenty of suspensions on here. He was suspended for possession of marijuana. "most kids who get suspened are punks?" :yak5: Scary stuff creeping out of the woodwork on here.

I never got suspended.

Most kids that get suspended are punks. Hopefully they learn from it and become responsible adults. Nothing scary at all about that statement at all.

most people I run into suck.

That's too bad. Most I come in contact with are good, hard working people. Even the ones I disagree with on political matters are usually ok people.

Speculation? Zimmerman said he followed him on the call to the police, and later in his report to police. Trayvon said he was being followed on the call to his girlfriend. That isn't speculation. This is friggin ridiculous.


Kids get suspended from school all the time. I am sure if you took a poll of this site, you would find plenty of suspensions on here. He was suspended for possession of marijuana. "most kids who get suspened are punks?" :yak5: Scary stuff creeping out of the woodwork on here.

Zimmy, we know Zimmerman (hey, we should start calling him Zimmy, too) was following Trayvon. We don't know how the altercation started, or how it progressed. Given that the right to self-defense depends entirely upon the details of the altercation, I'd say none of us are in any position to assume anything about whether or not Zimmerman was justified in fearing for his life.

And I believe Trayvon was suspended on 3 occasions. I'm no high school guidance counselor, but I'd bet every cent I have that less than 10% of high school students ever get suspended. And the % that get suspended more than once has to be very, very low.

That's not relevent to Zimmerman's guilt. It's very relevent in analyzng the disgusting media bias in this case.

Speculation? Zimmerman said he followed him on the call to the police, and later in his report to police. Trayvon said he was being followed on the call to his girlfriend. That isn't speculation. This is friggin ridiculous.

It's ridiculous that you can conclude that Zimmerman attacked Martin just because he was following him. That's quite the leap there. Is it at all possible that Martin turned around and went after Zimmerman? You'd make one hell of a detective with you're reasoning.

And yes, in my opinion he's a punk. He was suspended from school 3times for having a pot pipe and residue, grafitti (when they searched his locker they found burglary tools and a bag of jewelry), and truancy. Oh, and if you can find transcrips from his twitter account before his parents deleted it, you'd see someone different than the poor little kid with the bag of Skittles.

google his tweets Zimbo

But, if I am going after a "punk kid in a hoodie" (not sure where you come off calling him that) with my 9mm on me, I better not be the kind of person who poops themselves if the kid comes back at me. That points to one of the cardinal rules of gun ownership.


There you go assuming again. There is nothing to show that Zimmerman went after Martin initially, just speculation

It's ridiculous that you can conclude that Zimmerman attacked Martin just because he was following him.


So I say he went after him, which he did. You say there was nothing to show that he went after him initially. Then you say I conclude he attacked him because he was following him? I never concluded that he attacked him. I said if you are armed and going to go after (ie follow) someone and you have a weapon, you better not be the pant crapping type. I''m not sure if you are intentionally twisting it or not.

So I say he went after him, which he did. You say there was nothing to show that he went after him initially. Then you say I conclude he attacked him because he was following him? I never concluded that he attacked him. I said if you are armed and going to go after (ie follow) someone and you have a weapon, you better not be the pant crapping type. I''m not sure if you are intentionally twisting it or not.

Ok, so I thought you meant "went after" as in atacking or jumping, or whatever. I didn't think you meant "following". In any case, neither you nor I were there to know what really happened. Martin is a punk and Zimmerman has an itchy trigger finger.

google his tweets Zimbo

I just tweeted that you touch goats in sacrilegious ways.
Just now.

I just tweeted that you touch goats in sacrilegious ways.
Just now.

I thought that was directed at me for a second. We've got three. Goats that is... no sacrilege though. We don't even milk em.

Zimmerman referred to Martin as a spook on the call.

That was widely reported at first. Enhanced audio, some of which was released today, suggests that is 100% untrue. I hope Zimmerman sues somebody for 100 zillion dollars...I can't recall anyone getting a more unfair deal. He may well have committed a felony, but the press has done him a horrific injustice.

And if the same thing happens next week, Al Sharpton will still be there, giving the same tired old speech. And no one will question him to his fat, disgusting, face.

I have good news and bad news for the Al Sharptons of the world. The good news is this...there is no widespread, institutional racism anymore, it doesn't exist. We have a black president. The battle for civil rights is over, and the good gyus won.

The bad news is, you (and all the other racial hucksters) need to find another soap box to preach upon.

OK, this thread has run its course. If anything of substance comes along, maybe we can have a new thread. But this has been a circular argument.

I wish peace to Trayvon's family and hope they can find some closure. I hope the systems does what is is supposed to do, and make the appropriate call.