Was down the backside this past weekend! Sure is a shadow of what it once was 6-7 years ago. The seals have raped that area, made it a waste of time to fish from shore. 6-7 years ago you would see vehicle after vehicle driving up and down route 6 with rods on their bumpers and you could not walk on a beach this time of year without seeing at least a half dozen surf fisherman during the day on any stretch or beach and 4 times that many at night!!! Now......saw 1 fisherman on the beaches down there all weekend. Dozens and dozens of seals. Have not hooked a fish or had so much as a swirl down there on the backside beaches in 4 years!!!! So very sad what has happened down there to the fishery. Talking to that other fisherman who happens to live down there.......not seeing sand eels as he used to, lack of bait inshore continues as does the presence of fish...even blues????? I love it down there but might just have to leave the surf gear home next time. Just no longer worth the effort! I see a few folks venturing out on the Race......but that is not even worth the $150 a season anymore due to the closures! I have not bought a permit myself in 6 years.....remember when you had to get it the first 3 days or you would miss out???? I miss the good old days down there.

Hopefully Larry, it's just a cycle and in another 5 years it will be back to it's old self. We need more sharks! And sadly, we need a close call where a shark comes in close to a bathing beach... that might change things a little. Although, knowing our society as it is today, we'll be hunting the sharks down to save the seals!

I miss the old days when they'd mount a JAWS-like hunt for a big shark and club all the seals they saw in between! lol ;) :wall:

The fish are still there we hammered them right off the point this past weekend for hours! 25-35# fish on massive schools of sandeeels. They've probably just learned to stay the hell away from the seals. Get rid of the seals and the fish will go in tighter.
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With all the seals on the backside, there's no point even trying to fish there unless it's at night. Last couple years, all you need to do is be at the water's edge for 10-15 minutes and one of those POS seals pops its head out of the water looking for a hand out.

We need the bounty back.

The fish are still there we hammered them right off the point this past weekend for hours! 25-35# fish on massive schools of sandeeels. They've probably just learned to stay the hell away from the seals. Get rid of the seals and the fish will go in tighter.
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Surf?? Or from a boat Vic??

With all the seals on the backside, there's no point even trying to fish there unless it's at night. Last couple years, all you need to do is be at the water's edge for 10-15 minutes and one of those POS seals pops its head out of the water looking for a hand out.

We need the bounty back.

Seals are there at night as well.

The windows of opportunity there are getting VERY VERY short. Hopefully it comes back into balance with a seal black plague!

The windows of opportunity there are getting VERY VERY short. Hopefully it comes back into balance with a seal black plague!
It's called distemper and it will come sooner or later.

I also miss the old days Larry. Spent half my fishing life on the Back. I knew every hole from the Mission Bell to High Head. LeCount, Ballston, Clay Banks (not many know where that is), Lauras, The Bird Houses, 2tenths hole, Peaked Hill. Man, we use to crush fish and have a great time with really good fishermen all around us.

Vic is no doubt right . The fish are still there but with the bird closures and the seals, I haven't gotten a pass since 2003. Just not worth a 300 miles R/T

Pretty sure Vic was in a boat....of course they crush them from a boat. From the surf??? Not so much!!

Surf?? Or from a boat Vic??

Boat. Not very far from shore :uhuh:

Sounds like you got into some nice fish there Vic....but they have not been coming into surfcasting distance for quite some time. Sure there must be those moments......but it is certainly not like it used to be....not even close! I did my share of fishing down there when it was still pretty good......and I know the difference between then and now and it sucks bad.

I will also add that the Race from Hatches up to maybe Race Point beach does not seem to have the seal issues due to the way the water moves past there...the backside beaches from the Race to Nauset have a huge seal population as well as the area outside Wellfleet Harbor past LT's Island I am told. From Nauset to Chatham is out of control with seals.

Those schools between the rip and Wood End get killed every day by the boat fisherman, just fish the drop off with wire, umbrellas, what ever......just join the party.

Guys....I am talking surf...not boat fishing.

There are still sharpies pounding the outer cape beaches from the surf and I am told the fishing is great at times,especially without the crowds.

As I said I understand there will be moments...and those guys (most of them) live there! You don't see people making the destination drive down there like 6/7 years ago! I used to drive down with my buddy after work, fish all night, catch a bunch of fish and drive home in the am and it was worth it!!! Not worth the time, money for gas and effort like it was back in the day!

Surf, boat ... there are just too many seals ... it really is time to thin their herd ... :smash:

Seals are there at night as well.
They sure are but not like how it is during the day. Like I said above, you stop anywhere for 15 minutes and you'll see one of those turds bobbing around in front of you. Last year, we had a couple seals that literally followed us up and down the beach in our trucks.

However at night, they don't seem to be nearly as intrusive. Birds, seals, closures, overfishing.... it all just sucks.

Was there ever a time, "back in the day" that seals were an issue? Is it cyclical, or is this a new thing over the past 5 years?
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Im guessing no becuase there was a bounty on them back in the day. couple bucks a nose, right?

Was there ever a time, "back in the day" that seals were an issue? Is it cyclical, or is this a new thing over the past 5 years?
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Started around 02 or 03 then got real bad after that. Back in the "day". We had 100+ fish nights. I'm not talking schoolies either. My old partner RJ Zaldivia and I had a night in 94 when we caught so many 25 to 35# bass we left. We couldn't catch anymore as our arms were beat. All on eels and all in the surf from the Second Rip to peaked Hill Bar.
I was in the Thundermist Striper Club in Woonsocket at the time and there were some extraordinary fishermen in that club. Lanny Grazine was the president and would win the most points award every year. 1800 to 2000 points. 1 pound = 1 point. His partner was #^&#^&#^&#^& Conoyer and Tony C. George Calzone would join them occasionally. There was also a group from NY that was on the Back all season. Chucky Cigar, Eddie, NJ Charlie. Lucinni was always there. Stevie Voisonet was usually high hook from a little tin boat. he came in one morning with 1400 pounds in his boat. had an inch of freeboard.

Now these guys were all commercial and actually made a lot of money every summer. I was not commercial after 82 0r 83 so I'd just keep my 2 fish. I'm ashamed to admit it now but we use to high grade all the time. We'd give the smaller fish to the comms. Remember everything was still over 34".
For you younger guys, I hope you see this kind of fishing again. We'd start at the Second Rip or the Telephone Pole on the Front and work West with the fish as the tide dropped. Follow the fish for 15 or 20 miles. When they started closing the beach for the birds at the Mission Bell, we'd park all the trucks at the closure sign, except one. Everyone would pile into that one truck and scoot around the closure area. The rangers use to thing we were all in the trucks sleeping and never came past the closure area. Hide the one truck up inside the dunes. It wasn't unusual to see 3 or 4 mid to high 40s in a night, uncountable 20s and 30s. I remember one morning when we ended up at the Bell and Lanny was the only one who kept fishing. he nailed 3, 38 pounders right in a row.

It was amazing fishing. :fury:SEALS!!!

It's all about the boat or kayak now. What a shame. My wife has a bunch of friends who stay in Truro, so I'll continue to go out there. I am just glad I have a yak and a bunch of Salties needles.

after reading several of your POSTS Paul (Piemma)
with your astute memory and gift for writing

i think you should write a book for future generations.

I really Do...

Thanks Raven. I actually started writing the history of the back and sent stories to OTW and the Fisherman. They both said more suited to book form. perhaps when I retire....

I and my family used to love swimming Head of the Meadow during the day and fishing it hard at night, those days are long gone. Mikey's right, you need a YAK. I remember a few years back taking the long walk to Nauset from Coast Guard Beach and wondering why I didn't have a hit between the second and third bar (I've always had success there)? Come sunrise, there were tons of seals. I no longer make the walk. BBJ showed my some secret spots though and for that I am grateful.

Ice

My friends who commercially fish year in Chatham say the seals are too lazy to chase bass. They have all of the skates they need and they eat them like sandwiches.

They blame the backside bass issue with pair trawling, not seals.

They blame the backside bass issue with pair trawling, not seals.
How exactly would pair trawling have an effect on the beach fishing. It seems that the bass have learned to stay off the shoreline and into the deeper waters. I've seen your boat out there on the Race and I have to assume you turn the corner sometimes and know that there are fish out in the deeper waters off the backside. It's just that they aren't coming into sure because of those sea hogs.

I have issues with pair trawlers for a multitude of other reasons, but don't think we should take the focus off a lack of bass inshore being related to the seals.

"They" would be sorely misinformed.....it is the seals. I have been witness to the fall of the surf fishery down there.

I would guess Larry that the fish are just off the beach for a few reasons relating to seals. Which by the way can swim circles around a bass.

Safety in numbers, your odds of getting eaten go down the more the fish are clustered together.

The deeper the water the more escape room the fish have. ( plus the water out a bit is where the bait is )

While trolling for tuna bait off wood end we have seals on the beach see you hook up, come galloping in to steal your bluefish. Very smart "F"ing predator.

You have no idea how much I miss that way of life, living out of the truck on the beach, chasing fish for sometimes weeks at a time. It was what I lived for. :(

Was down the backside this past weekend! Sure is a shadow of what it once was 6-7 years ago. The seals have raped that area, made it a waste of time to fish from shore. 6-7 years ago you would see vehicle after vehicle driving up and down route 6 with rods on their bumpers and you could not walk on a beach this time of year without seeing at least a half dozen surf fisherman during the day on any stretch or beach and 4 times that many at night!!! Now......saw 1 fisherman on the beaches down there all weekend. Dozens and dozens of seals. Have not hooked a fish or had so much as a swirl down there on the backside beaches in 4 years!!!! So very sad what has happened down there to the fishery. Talking to that other fisherman who happens to live down there.......not seeing sand eels as he used to, lack of bait inshore continues as does the presence of fish...even blues????? I love it down there but might just have to leave the surf gear home next time. Just no longer worth the effort! I see a few folks venturing out on the Race......but that is not even worth the $150 a season anymore due to the closures! I have not bought a permit myself in 6 years.....remember when you had to get it the first 3 days or you would miss out???? I miss the good old days down there.

I started before a permit was needed,live here and still haven't bought a sticker in six years.
Looks like the bird folks are winning

Sadly, with all things from "the good old days", they are gone for good.

Since the seals and plovers are more important than the residents and licensed anglers, things will NEVER be like they used to be.

Remember that even though we're talking seals and birds, the controlling factor that regulates what will or will not be done to fix the problem is always people.....people that are more concerned with money....money that they can stuff into their own pockets at everyone else's expense.

And since the powers that be will never do anything to eradicate the seal problem, the fish will continue to avoid those shorelines.
Pretty soon those shorelines will be completely devoid of all life except for the bacteria left from the seal crap!!!

Personally, I hope we get a major shark invasion (as compared to a seal infestation) to assist in the decimation of the seal population.

"Nature always finds a way"

Ain't that the truth OG!!!

Personally, I hope we get a major shark invasion (as compared to a seal infestation) to assist in the decimation of the seal population.

"Nature always finds a way"
Keep on hoping. They have quite a large number of White Sharks around seal island in South Africa, yet they still call it seal island for a reason.

You have no idea how much I miss that way of life, living out of the truck on the beach, chasing fish for sometimes weeks at a time. It was what I lived for.


Me too.:(

How many of you have had a seal take a fish while hooked up?

I fly fish from shore in Scituate, Plymouth and Sandwich. I see seals and also seem to notice the bite is non existent when the seals are around.

You have no idea how much I miss that way of life, living out of the truck on the beach, chasing fish for sometimes weeks at a time. It was what I lived for.


Me too.:(

Me 3.

How many of you have had a seal take a fish while hooked up?

I fly fish from shore in Scituate, Plymouth and Sandwich. I see seals and also seem to notice the bite is non existent when the seals are around.

I know more people who have than have not.

I lost track a long time ago how many times and how many plugs and tins lost to them:smash::fury:
First encounter in summer was 1997 south beach, then in 2000 on Nauset I thought I had a cow, turned out after the 4th run I saw the seal pop it's head up, ruined a reel but got the plug and shreaded bass back.
I haven't got a sticker in 4 or 5 years :wall:

sometimes there are fish, but too few and far between. maybe once the seals eat all the bait and fish, they will leave, they got it pretty good in their own private playground with nothing to fear. there will never be enough great whites to put a hurting on them :(

I saw a 36 lber caught with in feet of a seal at cutty two weeks ago. Also saw more seals than people on nauset all this past weekend
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my dad said a back in the day you could get $5 per seal nose you turned in......

my dad said a back in the day you could get $5 per seal nose you turned in......
Yup. That's what my research and many others have told me as well. If that were the case today, I know half a dozen people that'd be happy to pitch in with me to purchase a .50cal rifle with me. Hell, I'd do the government a favor and not even bother cashing in for my $5.

That's what happens when regulations upset the balance of nature. The seals have too few predators and once left unchecked they multiply like rats. The only thing we can hope for is a like increase in the number of white sharks.

This thread should be read (saved for ) by the people that set policy

Oh heck, slow day at the tackle shop so I'll type a little.

I used to have hair, but now, for those who know me, I wear a hat for a reason! Change change change.

I hear it every day (no play on words there) - we used to slam them, we used to rake sand eels, we used to be able to drive to Wood End and Long Pt, and so on. Nothing is like it used to be in this world.

Are there seals,yes, have the plovers(or the Park Service/Wildlife etc)screwed us, yes, have the sand eels stayed off shore and we can no longer rake them up like we did years ago, yes (our commercial sand eel rakers are raking in 8 ft of water at low tide!), are there as many fish, no.

All truisms - yet last Thursday morning from 6 til 10 three gigantic schools of bass (20 to 30 pound range) went up and down Race Pt beaches - for the less than 10 people fishing on that whole stretch they had it all to themselves, on Friday right at the lighthouse, another school, Sunday, another - all surf casters fishing from the beach. A local just walked in right now, last two nights hammered the fish, ugly conditions, tough wind and rain, but got fish.

I agree it's not what it used to be, might never be - seals suck (but go to Monomy), the plover situation sucks, the seals suck (I said that already, right?), but it ain't all that bad.

OK, done with it, people in the shop, gotta go, I just get sick of the complaining and moaning and groaning - no offense intended to anyone - everyone is entitled to their say!

That's what happens when regulations upset the balance of nature. The seals have too few predators and once left unchecked they multiply like rats. The only thing we can hope for is a like increase in the number of white sharks.

we as a species have been removed from the loop as hunter/gatherers in that regard at least in this part of the world...
Salmon always get top billing it seems when it comes to protecting the resource from to many seals as seen recently on the left coast.

If you re-read my first post it states that yes...I know there will be times when there are fish to be caught.......but I am bemoaning the fact that I miss the way it used to be! That I could drive 2 hours down there, spend all night, catch a bunch of fish and drive home the next morning and it was worth the trip and the lack of sleep...and most of all I think I hate how it has affected the area and its businesses Rich. I love it down there which is why we rent down there every season......but I have not hooked a fish down there in 5 YEARS!!!!! (That is on the "Backside Beaches") And it is not for lack of trying!! I hit the beach, and 5 or 6 seals rise up out of the water in front of me......I might as well just throw my fishing rod in the water at that point and leave??? People have varying opinions...and that is mine! I am entitled to bitch about it. I miss it as do many others but hey.....aren't the seals cute?????:fury:

All truisms - yet last Thursday morning from 6 til 10 three gigantic schools of bass (20 to 30 pound range) went up and down Race Pt beaches - for the less than 10 people fishing on that whole stretch they had it all to themselves, on Friday right at the lighthouse, another school, Sunday, another - all surf casters fishing from the beach. A local just walked in right now, last two nights hammered the fish, ugly conditions, tough wind and rain, but got fish.

I agree it's not what it used to be, might never be - seals suck (but go to Monomy), the plover situation sucks, the seals suck (I said that already, right?), but it ain't all that bad.
From talking to the old timers, *not* catching used to be unusual. Now, the fishing you post about above is the exception to the rule. With 6 months to a season, there's always going to be a string of days to point at that have good fishing. The difference is that there are *far far* more strings of days that you won't get anything from the beach aside from a kibby bass or two.

Hey Larry,TRY THE YAK. All you need to get fish and get sleep too. It seems you have accepted the changes rather than adapting to them.The determined angler will find a way so try to become just that.

Oh heck, slow day at the tackle shop so I'll type a little.

I used to have hair, but now, for those who know me, I wear a hat for a reason! Change change change.

I hear it every day (no play on words there) - we used to slam them, we used to rake sand eels, we used to be able to drive to Wood End and Long Pt, and so on. Nothing is like it used to be in this world.

Are there seals,yes, have the plovers(or the Park Service/Wildlife etc)screwed us, yes, have the sand eels stayed off shore and we can no longer rake them up like we did years ago, yes (our commercial sand eel rakers are raking in 8 ft of water at low tide!), are there as many fish, no.

All truisms - yet last Thursday morning from 6 til 10 three gigantic schools of bass (20 to 30 pound range) went up and down Race Pt beaches - for the less than 10 people fishing on that whole stretch they had it all to themselves, on Friday right at the lighthouse, another school, Sunday, another - all surf casters fishing from the beach. A local just walked in right now, last two nights hammered the fish, ugly conditions, tough wind and rain, but got fish.

I agree it's not what it used to be, might never be - seals suck (but go to Monomy), the plover situation sucks, the seals suck (I said that already, right?), but it ain't all that bad.

OK, done with it, people in the shop, gotta go, I just get sick of the complaining and moaning and groaning - no offense intended to anyone - everyone is entitled to their say!

I understand you have a business to run, but seriously, please don't insult the peoples' intelligence who've fished it hard their whole lives...

Lotta money to waste hoping you intersect with a few random days the fish go in close.
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I would guess Larry that the fish are just off the beach for a few reasons relating to seals. Which by the way can swim circles around a bass.

Safety in numbers, your odds of getting eaten go down the more the fish are clustered together.

The deeper the water the more escape room the fish have. ( plus the water out a bit is where the bait is )

While trolling for tuna bait off wood end we have seals on the beach see you hook up, come galloping in to steal your bluefish. Very smart "F"ing predator.

You have no idea how much I miss that way of life, living out of the truck on the beach, chasing fish for sometimes weeks at a time. It was what I lived for. :(

I know of one day in particular that dramatizes this. Remember the flayed bluefish? I've got a picture of it somewhere, but can't find it.

I saw a 12-15 pounder taken yesterday morning and four 20-25 pounders Saturday afternoon in Truro. The 12-15 I saw come in. The 20-25s were still limp, no rigor.

And a bunch of seals....

Oh yeah a 15-20 in the lot as I drove by in Bourne. Saw it come up the stairs.

I saw a 12-15 pounder taken yesterday morning and four 20-25 pounders Saturday afternoon in Truro. The 12-15 I saw come in. The 20-25s were still limp, no rigor.

And a bunch of seals....

Oh yeah a 15-20 in the lot as I drove by in Bourne. Saw it come up the stairs.

shhhhhh! I like having the beaches to myself! :)

shhhhhh! I like having the beaches to myself! :)
Don't worry, just look out into the water... you'll always have blubbery friends with you.

I understand you have a business to run, but seriously, please don't insult the peoples' intelligence who've fished it hard their whole lives...

Bart not for nothing, but I've never known Rich to lie, mislead, or insult anyone's intelligence. He's a square shooter.

I have to agree with BBJ....Rich is a great guy!! :uhuh:

I believe it's called " shifting baseline syndrome ".

What some of us experienced in the 70's 80's and 90's doesn't apply to the standards of today. Back then I expected to find decent fish on the beach. Now I'm pleasantly surprised to find it. Guess I got a little spoiled. Yesterdays 25-40's are todays 15-25's.

the fact is most fishermen are a lazy bunch of guys.If they can't get in thier truck and drive to the fish,then to them there are no fish.if they have to walk more than a few hundred feet game over.with very few fishermen comes very few reports,most fishermen are not capable of finding fish on their own. you can live on memories from the past,but in fact many of the stories i hear are just that stories.you don't hear pf the weeks and seasons of few or no fish back in the day.though i didn't start fishing the cape till 97 i have some very close freinds who have been there since the early 60's and they paint a very differant story then most that i hear today.i find it rather amusing how people can say how bad fishing is yet in the last 5 years i tell you the names of every fishermen that i have come across at night in the Wellfleet truro ptown area.and i average well over a100 nights a year.in that area.no arguing that the times have changed,i have fished for more than 50 years and things have chaged every where,patterns have changed places have changed,if you don't change than you are stuck in the past.

I for one am a walker John....and I like it that way! Gets me away from the yahoos!!! All the guys you speak of or at least 90% of them....who are doing well either live down there or spend the entire summer there like yourself....so the long drive and financial cost is not a factor to you and thus you have more time to find the fish and work on a consistent game plan. As I said the fishing IS NOT as it used to be...and it is a fact.

I am far from a lazy fisherman as are the guys I fish with who live close by to those beaches. Even pre seals you would have some long dry spells but the size and consistency of the fish was better. Still a lot of people back then had trouble finding them. You always had to know the lay of the land, put in your time, have some skill and do the work.

I'm still at it and will be doing it till I walk no more. Though I sure fish a hell of a lot more areas than I had to.:fishin:

Larry - you make a good point (more than a few most of the time!!).

If I had a choice to drive 2 hours to the Race or 1 hour to a point closer, and they were both "ok" places, I guess I would go with the 1 hour.

Also, you are right, their are a group of people who live here, or summer/weekend here in the campgrounds, who fish alot, and they are the ones getting the fish - they put in their time here, go to the spots, etc etc. and catch fish.

Oh, and Bart, read my post - said it wasn't like it used to be - said things change - nothing is like it used to be - never said it was the best, greater than any other spot. I don't think that's insulting anyones intelligence (??). Also, having a fishing business here doesn't enter into this discussion - seriously, if you think that a post would sway people to drive two hours than maybe those people don't have any intelligence.

Bottom line - as Larry said in the beginning, fishing here is NOT like it used to be, I agree, but my opinion is it has changed everywhere. Also, my opinion still stands - there are fish to catch here - have to spend a lot of time and walk a lot of miles.

And yet I still go down there as much as I can Rich....because I love it down there!!! Just nice to be on the water as far as I am concerned! I just have such a great appreciation for it down there and memories of so many great trips and its just different now. As I said though......I love it down there...some of the most beautiful beaches and scenery on the planet as far as I am concerned!!! Hope you are enjoying the season Rich!:uhuh:

things change and cycle, and obviously the seals don't help. open sand beaches are tough too, and i think that's a big factor in this. you really need to stay on top of sand beaches since things are always shifting (tide to tide, never mind week to week), which explains why only the guys who can be out there all the time are doing well. i like rocks, they pretty much stay still. and with the amount i get to fish, that's a big help. i only fished the outer cape a few times, staying a week or so twice, never did that well, but did enjoy it alot. beautiful place, especially at night under a half moon.