New inspector ,, I have 30" doors front and back . I want to enlarge the back door to 32" to make it easier getting appliances in . Homies has a lot of pre hung steel doors 32 x 78 ,, $188.00 (78" ?? cottage area ) ..I can't use this door Inspector says I need the high impact hurricane door $900.00 .. Right now I have a crappy wood door with 2 butts screwed directly to 2X4 ,, no casing .. leave that alone I guess .. . Met the old owner and neighbors .. They said .. "We knew you weren't from around here .. You pulled a building permit " ..

building permit for a rear door???? who woulda thunk it???? :) i guess we gotta watch out for those backdoor hurricanes....

Building inspector has no legal right to force you to use a particular door??? Buy the door you want and hang it!!!

Yeah, that doesn't sound right..... Ask him to show you in the code book.

Had a similar issue in Newport a while ago. Any project within a certain distance from the water has a different set of codes. Had to anchor the house down differently, had to use hurricane ties everywhere and had to use high wind glass. 90 mph I believe. It was crazy the things that were different from building inland. Added 40% to the cost of the house.

Different codes for a back door??? I doubt that! Maybe for insulation or frame construction but a homeowner has the right to install any exterior door they choose! Doors are functional and esthetic not structural!

yup different codes if you live with in a mile of the coast line ,, aka FEMA . Even Sheds need hurricane clips ,cables anchoring down .. He's coming by Tuesday . Old inspector walked through and called me out on the beams .. 4 sets of plans later to an engineering firm , notarized, stamped and submitted, I guess my rough framing was never signed off . No permit , just receipt for it in the window back then , Took like a month and a half to get the actual permit .. Just got a permit for 2 doors and a window ,, got that with in the same week from new regime .. I will not be looking for another of these houses as a fixer upper ..

you know gov't is out of control when they dictate which back door you must use on YOUR house...

While it is quite evident that the codes have changed recently, I wouldn't necessarily blame the govt. The insurance companies are the culprits here. After Andrew in Florida, and Katrina the insurance companies have been looking for ways to limit their liabilities. Code changes were made to strengthen up the exterior weak points...windows and doors and garages and decks. Originally the Cape and Islands, and Mass coastal areas were designated as 120 mph wind areas requiring expensive windows and doors and framing ties. This was later changes to 110 mph and there is an allowable storm panel provision to protect regular windows. Here in Holliston the wind rating is 100 mph so there are no issues. The building code does require one means of egress to be 3'-0" and an inspector could make the case that if you replace the door that is sub par then a three foot door should be installed. I do know that in the 7th edition, code any work done to a means of egress required a permit. I don't know if this provision made it into the 8th edition but I'll look Changing a door size to a larger one would require a permit anyway

Ed

Again I state...doors and windows are not structural and surely will be the least point of concern if an appropriate "Hurricane" strikes! When was the last time Onset had a Hurricane again?????:smash:

Windows and doors are considered structural in high wind areas 120 mph. A breach in these areas will cause extensive damage to the home and in some cases cause the structure itself to be compromised. Windows are tested by the 2x4 cannon..ie. a 2x4 shot at the glass a t predetermined speed, regular windows get one shot to pass,, 120 mph windows the glass and membrane must remain intact after many impacts. The 120 mph window is very expensive and the argument by the Cape builders was that the cost were prohibitive and the window could be protected by a storm panel the code was subsequently changed and the storm panels were allowed. Doors because they are a means of egress are another matter as there are many styles and glass configurations to contend with so are engineered to different testing.
Things have changed, windows and doors are components of structural systems and are treated accordingly and subject to code requirements. In addition in the event of a loss to a home, the first thing the insurance companies look for is work performed without a permit and if found that is grounds to deny the claim. I don't agree with some of the regulations, but I can see the reasons for the.. Big box sales people that don't know what they are selling, big box installers that are incompetent, workmen that are incompetent and homeowners that are all to willing to fore go the permit process and put their home in jeopardy for the sake of a couple of bucks and a trip to the town hall.
The office of inspections should be a resource center center not a punitive exercise.. if it isn't then complain.

Sorry for the rant

ed

Again I state...doors and windows are not structural and surely will be the least point of concern if an appropriate "Hurricane" strikes! When was the last time Onset had a Hurricane again?????:smash:


hurricane Bob
it wrecked a lot of boats and homes

you can state your opinion Bigfish, that doors are not structural, but the fact is, they are part of the structure.


Tagger, ya bought a sugar shack, you would think they'd be happy you are improving it but I guess it's all because of liability. too bad too, because even when you buy a house that's been inspected, stuff slips thru the cracks from back when it was new, and the homeowner winds up with crappy construction shortcuts anyway sometimes.

These high impact doors may be required by code with in a mile of the coast , But try finding one .. Wife called all over the cape ,, special order .. Standard steel wood case doors are still the norm in stock .

Its bull#^&#^&#^&#^& and I don't care what anyone says!! Have the #^&#^&#^&#^&er show you the written code!!!

There is no "within one mile of the coast" there are only wind speed areas period. Flood prone areas are another issue altogether, but I just read an article on a door shield for flooding up to 30".I too would ask to see the code reference. If by chance there was one, I would next contact the door company you would like to purchase a door from and ask for a spec sheet to be faxed to the lumber yard or big box store. Most door manufacturers belong to the fenestration board and wind ratings are listed. On the Cape, the wind speed is 110...I believe most doors will pass this. Specs from the manufacturer are all the BI needs for performance compliance.

I just went on the Jeld Wen site and the list a severe storm glass for gtlass paneled doors that pass. I am sure there is a up charge, but you dont have to put a shutter over the door. Come to think of it why can't you just build a storm panel to go over the door. As I recall, on the cape on new construction the storm panels must be on site in order to get occupancy, and as far as I know regular windows are allowed with the additional storm panels.

Ed

cancel the permit for the door, get all other work done, then once all signed off and have occupancy permit, go get a door and replace it on a saturday. done simple hassle free

The old inspector was giving a notice and let go .. After given a notice he didn't show up for work . Showed up his last day , stepped in a hole and hurt himself , What a coinydink .. pos .. Building Commissioner fired too. domestic abuse . nice ..

[QUOTE=Tagger;956776]The old inspector was giving a notice and let go .. After given a notice he didn't show up for work . Showed up his last day , stepped in a hole and hurt himself , What a coinydink .. pos ..


gee just like ya read about ALL the time. i wish just once the powers that be call out pos' like this. i think boston called out a competion weightlifting fireman.
do what bruce said.

When he stepped in the hole someone should have thrown some dirt on him... These inspectors should be guiding not trying to break your bank. I'm sorry you're going through this, but when it's done , you and the Mrs. can enjoy and smile at the fact that you've won. That first sunset together when it's done will be worth it all.

Because of this post a "towny" yesterday told me I could use the regular steel doors . All I needed was a sheet of plywood ,pre drilled, and labled that it is designated for that door to be screwed right over the opening incase of hurricane .. Building inspector today said that would be fine ... YYYEEAaaa !!! thanks Mike ..

Excellent! I hope you never have to actually install it..... Good old time yankee fix.

Why didn't the stupid idiot tell you that in the first place???:smash:

Because of this post a "towny" yesterday told me I could use the regular steel doors . All I needed was a sheet of plywood ,pre drilled, and labled that it is designated for that door to be screwed right over the opening incase of hurricane .. Building inspector today said that would be fine ... YYYEEAaaa !!! thanks Mike ..

the sad part of all this is.. someone ( an inspector) could/SHOULD have told you this right from the get go...there is no excuse for this being this hard.. rules and codes are put forth for our safty.. but when a simple sheet of plywood labled in a specific manner is the "cure all' to an expensive, troublesome problem...and is a legal viable option.. the home owner should be given the option and informed on the minmal that is reqiured...

Yea ,, I bought the door ,, got it to the job , returned it , and now I have to go back and get it .. Good bye crappy old wood door .. Was wondering why a $900.00 door isn't readily available down the cape ??

Again I state...doors and windows are not structural and surely will be the least point of concern if an appropriate "Hurricane" strikes! When was the last time Onset had a Hurricane again?????:smash:

Bob was bad ,, but 1938 was the worst .. Houses floated right off there blocks ,, Old timer told me there was a guy who charged $100.00 a house to tie a rope to it and tow it back to the blocks .. That's why a lot of these houses are crooked on the blocks .

Homeowner acting as "contractor"....contractors have to know the codes....building inspector isn't there to play teacher, just to inforce the codes.The days of "sure use this or do this are long gone.

Well Tagger is a union carpenter so......pretty sure he has a grasp of code. Pretty sure he was not going to make a door out of popsicle sticks and Elmers! I submitted architect quality drawings for our mud room addition complete with measurements the whole nine yards!! Inspector comes for the rough inspection and informs me we need a landing at the top of the stairs outside the back door of the mud room!!! Now I ask you....is it or is it not the inspectors job to look over the drawings that THEY REQUEST" to make sure that everything is as it should be???? It was a simple mud room.....childs play compared to building a complete structure yet the inspector dropped the ball.....could not execute his job to provide me the service for which we do pay the permit fees!!!!!! I wanted to crush his F'in skull the dumb bastard!!!!!!

Homeowner acting as "contractor"....contractors have to know the codes....building inspector isn't there to play teacher, just to inforce the codes.The days of "sure use this or do this are long gone.

Pretty sure this is exactly what a building inspectors job is?

Well Tagger is a union carpenter so......pretty sure he has a grasp of code. Pretty sure he was not going to make a door out of popsicle sticks and Elmers! I submitted architect quality drawings for our mud room addition complete with measurements the whole nine yards!! Inspector comes for the rough inspection and informs me we need a landing at the top of the stairs outside the back door of the mud room!!! Now I ask you....is it or is it not the inspectors job to look over the drawings that THEY REQUEST" to make sure that everything is as it should be???? It was a simple mud room.....childs play compared to building a complete structure yet the inspector dropped the ball.....could not execute his job to provide me the service for which we do pay the permit fees!!!!!! I wanted to crush his F'in skull the dumb bastard!!!!!!


I always wondered why they need drawings if they are only going to inspect the work done.

I've been doing commercial building for 27yrs. now ,, Boston Carpenter... Did 12 yrs .. residential / builders before that but everything has changed so much . I have to take a class to renew my Supervisors license. From what I hear everything is changing again . Including building framing ... We are getting greener .. I won't know until I take the course but heard something as easy as framing an outside corner that use to require 4 studs (or 3 and scraps) they want you to do with 2 studs .. wood equal heat loss .. Any work I do now is steel stud ,, screw gun ,, powder activated tools . 58 and I'm still learning .

Down here they won't talk to a homeowner at a meeting or in the office....they don't have time for the 40?'s a homeowner ask's...codes have gotten way to complex to take up what little time they do have trying to explain all the do's an dont's as the line is forming out the door....they only want to deal with contractors and their getting good at it pushing out everyone else out the door.

BUY THE CODE BOOK.....it's all in there, then some...THEN get all the new updates as they come out....no such thing as a shack or cottage anymore.

ps....inspectors can and do change their minds..good luck fighting that one.

plywood can be used if it's a single sheet covering an opening,BUT if you butt 2 sheets together to cover an opening,that won't fly.Like a garage door or a big picture window..then you need to spend big bucks for a metal storm panel...
no more leaving kraft faced insulation uncovered in between rafters in a storage space either..has to be covered with sheetrock in case of fire..it goes on an on.$$$$$$$

payed for the permit .. then it's 40 dollars an inspection ..framing ,, insulation ,,,sheet rock ,,, my doors .. plenty of time for that .

We do not get charged for every inspection here in Hanover...just a single fee! Code book, schmode book! You can have the code book and state guidelines...whatever and then the power hungry inspectors make their own rules!!! I have seen it done with Fire Prevention when I was installing oil tanks! Nevermind they are statewide rules and regs......they make up their own!!

maybe I'll move to Maine:wall::gorez::bsod:

We do not get charged for every inspection here in Hanover...just a single fee! Code book, schmode book! You can have the code book and state guidelines...whatever and then the power hungry inspectors make their own rules!!! I have seen it done with Fire Prevention when I was installing oil tanks! Nevermind they are statewide rules and regs......they make up their own!!
Job security. The more times they have to go back and do follow-up inspections, the more perceived validity there is to their job. While I do believe there is *some* reasonable need for building inspectors, it seems that most are allowed to operate as mavericks that create their own rules and operate on a whim.

Maybe the inspector doesn't like answering questions to home owners but tough cookies,,,.. Homies and Lowes has developed a huge DIY market ,, A lot of people like working on their own house .. A lot of people like to abide by the law and pull permits (dopes). That's the reality of the situation . Tough to make money residential any way. Too many contractors cutting each others throats . At least that is what was happening when I was out there . Are contractors still competing with firemen for jobs ? hated that .

Pretty sure I just drove by the house Ed, dropped someone off down that way. It looks nice, it will all be worth the aggrivation some day.

Because of this post a "towny" yesterday told me I could use the regular steel doors . All I needed was a sheet of plywood ,pre drilled, and labled that it is designated for that door to be screwed right over the opening incase of hurricane .. Building inspector today said that would be fine ... YYYEEAaaa !!! thanks Mike ..

Wow you should be watching the episodes of TOH they are rebuilding a house in Narragansett on the water, and they have the same issues. There was talk of building panels to cover the windows in case of a hurricane because the hurricane window were 2 to 3 times as much as the windows they used...

Maybe the inspector doesn't like answering questions to home owners but tough cookies,,,.. Homies and Lowes has developed a huge DIY market ,, A lot of people like working on their own house .. A lot of people like to abide by the law and pull permits (dopes). That's the reality of the situation . Tough to make money residential any way. Too many contractors cutting each others throats . At least that is what was happening when I was out there . Are contractors still competing with firemen for jobs ? hated that .

Yo hit the nail on the head Homies and Lowes developed a huge do it yourself market, and too many people now do things half assed, or unsafe. My buddies girlfriend owns a rental in a real nice town. She had a friend redo the front stairs about 3 years ago. Latest tenant just moved out so the were going to rip off the fir, and replace it with Trex. They started the rip and soon found the exterior 4"x6" totally rotted and failing across the front. The person who rebuilt the stairs cut out a section at the top of the stair and replaced it with a single piece of 2"x6" Under the splice was a 2"x4" vertical sitting on a 2"x4" on the flat that was bending under load. This was a collapse waiting to happen. So we ripped it out and started new. My buddy wanted to take all kinds of shortcuts to save some money, but I would not let him, if I was doing it , it was getting done right. Maybe Homies and Lowes should open an area of their stores for code questions....

sounds like a law suit coming for a falty install.....a friend is going through one now...wheel chair ramp was bought...a visiting nurse was walking up the ramp..ramp goes to the ground...shes now messed up big time....home owners insur. says bad ramp..ramp co. says bad install,falls on the home owner...shes waiting for a settlement.

Point is..insur. co's are starting to look to see if the work was permitted or not...is it on record as such with the town,if it was then they know it was done right because of the codes and inspections....no record of work done?.hmmm! sorry your claim is invalid we can't help you.Doesn't pay to screw with saving a few bucks by doing things undercover...it will come back to bite you in the A$$.

We just added 300.00 worth of storm hardware on a new garage door per code because of the 110 mph wind code....new house..no op permitt would be given without it..inspector won't sign off unless it was done....State code not his.