Seems we need a winter thread, something to keep running for a while.
Show and tell, discussion type stuff.

I finally started working on somethings, so here goes.

First a few WY Poppers. Frech claimed this (and an A40) where his most productive plugs. Supposedly he used them at night. Birch and heavy. He is vague on how to weight them. The diagram shows two huge 1/2" by 5/8" weights (which yields a 4 oz plug), his article talks about casting 1/2 by 3/8 weights for the plug (3 oz end result). I did both but think the lighter one is right.

Cutting the popper face well in dry birch was one of the harder things I've done building plugs. I am also concerned it is too deep. I've yet to find a way to make a shallow wide cup effectively that follows the angle of the face (although Fred told me how Gibbs did it using tiny different diameter circular saw blades mounted on a mandrel).

Next up are needles.

I've had repeated success on large fish (as in over 30#) with Eddy's small needle. It has gotten to the point were I consider it a "go to" plug. Eddy is buzy rebuilding his fishing cottage so he won't be making any more any time soon.......so I ripped him off.

....and then there was Flap :( . His favorite plugs were needlefish, and one of his "go to" needles had been built by eelpunt (wonder what he is up to these days). He had me measure and xray it one winter.....twisted, straightened hooks and all. I was supposed to build him some copies......seems like time I finally did. I'm pretty sure it will have good mojo. AYC 2.10z rigged with Mustad 3/0.

George thread to start. Something to look forward to turning on computer Sunday morning. Restoring a bunch of Goo Goo eyes and Bluestreaks for a friend. finally bought a Createx paint kit (20) color. Threw out the craft paints. More headaches with gun. No issues w/Createx. Back by popular demand, I'm making a batch of the reknown Billy D stuby needle. Many supporters in this neck of the woods have great succcess. I 'll get you one for Plugfest. Maybe do a few large Surfsters and a 6" & 8" Wadd. Those Frech poppers, do they float? Nightime use? Swimming like a SS little Neck? The popper face would seem difficult to do especially in a Birch or maple. Ball rasp is too violent of an procedure as an end mill? Oh well time for coffee. Who else is doing what?

Billy, if you are going with createx paints try to find some Liquitex air brush medium (Liquitex is a different company than Createx). when the createx is new it flows well, but as it ages a few drops of Liquitex as a thinner helps a lot.

Nice work George. Chefchris' redfin thread inspired me to give handcarves another shot, so I'm working on some 5 and 7" redfins. This week I hope to start duping some creekchub giant jointeds and some 1/2oz. gibbs pencils.

Billy, if you are going with createx paints try to find some Liquitex air brush medium (Liquitex is a different company than Createx). when the createx is new it flows well, but as it ages a few drops of Liquitex as a thinner helps a lot.

Thanks George. I was thinking of a thinner other than water. Airbrushing is definately a breed in itself. What u think flows doesn't. trust me those craft paint were thin and shot like crap. I did recieve a bottle of Createx brush cleaner with the kit. Could this be used as a thinner?

Lots of good airbrush info here

http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/plug-building-got-wood/46141-mother-all-airbrush-threads.html

Neat plug, Ryan. Mahogany or WRC? A lot of work getting those to work right. I tried once to replicate a F90 rebel but didn't get very far.

Great start to a thread george.

Ryan that hand carve looks great. I have done anything else with mine yet.

Fired up my lathe for the first time this week. Turned some habs 2oz needle bodies, some will be extra tail weighted for those windy days, 3oz torpedo Danny's musso inspired, 2oz slow sink needles based on dons shape but weighting is different, a couple eelys, and some CCBC 6900 series pikies.

Sealed about 60 plugs on Friday night after work, had some bodies left over from two years ago, the new stuff and some odds and ends from g2h that came with the lathe.

There are two hawg hunter pencils in that batch of mixed plugs, looking forward to making a bunch of those for my ditch fishing, cool design.

Also scored some more original pichney plugs that will see the ocean for the first time in their lives next season.

The big a 40 is very different than his standard a40, ill post some pics side by side in a new thread.

Got some small freshwater/schoolie stuff sealed up too.
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On the popper cups what works for me is a ground spade drill . I pilot drill first so the spade will cut true.

Thanks Chris

Neat plug, Ryan. Mahogany or WRC? A lot of work getting those to work right. I tried once to replicate a F90 rebel but didn't get very far.

Thanks G, I think that one is spanish cedar. I made some out of wrc to but I still have to sand them. Should probably get to test swimming them before the water freezes up. I recieved that gibbs pencil on thursday thanks again for your help

Suddenly I'm all horned up over NJ style sealed plugs. Obtained a bunch of examples- Lefty, Skippy, Cyclone, Tom Bottomly, Pajama Plugs, Basswood, Luna... And came to the realization that besides the sealed construction there is very very little difference in shapes, lips, or action. Odd that they are such copy cats down there! Any how, going to make some of these in various sizes. From 4-8".

Also doing a lure I call the 2fer. Basically a white cedar slope headed surface swimmer with a pikie 3 lip, however, the slope extends 2/3 of the way back, instead of to the midpoint. In calm water the lure will swim on top with a nice tail wag IF your rod tip is up high. Drop the tip and point it at the lure and it dives 2-4'. In the breachway the big lip and long flat top make it a super stable deep diver. 2fer- Two for one.

This week I need to churn out some plugs for gifts.
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Hey Fellas,

Some cool stuff there!
My building time has been very limited, but I've been on a crank/twitch bait kick. from 4 inch walleye size to 12 inch fall trolling sizes. All made from cedar and will have either stainless or lexan lips Also my first attempt at foiling (wow quite a learning curve):smash:
I've also been admiring how cool the added gill and fin effects are on some builders posts and decided to give it a go.
Here are a couple in mid stage! (crappy camera pic)

Happy Holidays fellas:uhuh:

MS

Suddenly I'm all horned up over NJ style sealed plugs. Obtained a bunch of examples- Lefty, Skippy, Cyclone, Tom Bottomly, Pajama Plugs, Basswood, Luna... And came to the realization that besides the sealed construction there is very very little difference in shapes, lips, or action. Odd that they are such copy cats down there! Any how, going to make some of these in various sizes. From 4-8".

Also doing a lure I call the 2fer. Basically a white cedar slope headed surface swimmer with a pikie 3 lip, however, the slope extends 2/3 of the way back, instead of to the midpoint. In calm water the lure will swim on top with a nice tail wag IF your rod tip is up high. Drop the tip and point it at the lure and it dives 2-4'. In the breachway the big lip and long flat top make it a super stable deep diver. 2fer- Two for one.

This week I need to churn out some plugs for gifts.
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Hi Jon. Any particular dimentions for this 2fr? i like that option, top water and a diver. Looking to do a niche plug this winter also.

Another plug that has a good 2fer quality is the CCBC 7400 surfster.

I turned a body this week, rigged it with a pikie 3 lip, slow crank will stay on top, faster retrieve and it will dive 2ft.

Need to play around with some weighting options, want to make a med/deep diver.

Just love that shape!
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Another plug that has a good 2fer quality is the CCBC 7400 surfster.

I turned a body this week, rigged it with a pikie 3 lip, slow crank will stay on top, faster retrieve and it will dive 2ft.

Need to play around with some weighting options, want to make a med/deep diver.

Just love that shape!
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A Pikie Lip!!! on a surfster?............What were you thinking?
I was going to do the same :uhuh:...still want the body??

I haven't posted any plugs in awhile since I usually only turn in the Winter. With a baby on the way, it will probably be less in the future, but that's okay with me.

Numbskull, I love those Frech poppers!

here is what I've been working on. Wadd needles made from Tiger Maple. I think I'm going to do one like the tutorial, black, yellow and Block Island green.

Used the new plug spinner/dryer for the first time yesterday.

A few more.

Wish my epoxy looked like that :fury:

here is what I've been working on. Wadd needles made from Tiger Maple. .

A new baby and a bunch of wadds. Life should be good. Congrats.

Wish my epoxy looked like that :fury:

I have Skippy to thank for that.:buds:

Plugs look great Mark!
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A new baby and a bunch of wadds. Life should be good. Congrats.

I can't wait! The baby is due late May...Hey, my timing has never been the greatest! :smash:

Nice looking stuff guys
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Plugs look great Mark!
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Thanks Chris

Look good Mark

Hi Jon. Any particular dimentions for this 2fr? i like that option, top water and a diver. Looking to do a niche plug this winter also.

Pretty big

7.5" and 3.3oz rigged with 4 .092 Screw eyes, rings 3/0 VMCs and a flag o the back. And 10-12g in the belly at the max width point.
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Pretty much a wasted week stressing over Xmas, but #^&#^&#^&#^&ed around a bit. Nothing intentional, but had some fun. Avoided the "curse of the duplicator", that plug building mind trap where if you decide to make one you should make several dozen. Just started using up some of the odd sized,odd wood, left over blanks littering the cellar. Chuck 'em up, rough 'em down and grab a skew.

Ended up with some pine mini-mussos, some sloppy CCBC darter clones, some basswood SS little neck knock offs (with over cupped popper faces :smash:), and a few trial small needle shapes (thinking a pocket rocket, a floater, and a level runner).

George, first off, hope you all have a great holiday.

Now, my question is, how are you cutting/sanding the darter slope? I have not addressed building a jig for that step....

Decided to turn some of the pine I had. dug up the specs on a Conrad Jr. found both PM's specs & canalman's Fisherman article. both the same length 5 1/2" but different in diameter, weight amount and hook amount. Has anyone swam both versions? I seems that with the smaller diameter 1.125 and less weight (8gr) would still swim deep as the original larger diameter 1.165 and the longer weight slug (approx. 10gr/12gr). I spun the smaller one (1 hook) and will swim along with one larger w/2 hooks. I have a couple of PM's lips to test with.

Now, my question is, how are you cutting/sanding the darter slope? I have not addressed building a jig for that step....

I just freehanded those, Ross, with bandsaw and belt sander, and I effed them up (just like the 1000 times before when I tried the same sloppy method).

If I am building enough of a plug to do it right, I build a sled to hold the plug on its side anchored at the belly and tail, mark out the slope, bandsaw it, then clean it on a belt sander. My system is not great nor perfectly consistent. If you search on SOL for "darter hell" thread, Joe posted a series of pictures that shows a good way to do it. Eddy does something very similar. I like to cut the chin of the plug first upright on the table saw (using a jig to hold it vertical...never freehand).

If I had access to a pin router or shaper I'd build a pin guided bed to follow the curve of the slope. You can do pattern sawing with a bandsaw using a point shaped guide block and a sled shaped to your cut, but my efforts at it were disappointing.

I seems that with the smaller diameter 1.125 and less weight (8gr) would still swim deep as the original larger diameter 1.165 and the longer weight slug (approx. 10gr/12gr). I spun the smaller one (1 hook) and will swim along with one larger w/2 hooks. I have a couple of PM's lips to test with.

It is the lip and line tie position that takes a conrad down, not the weight. No matter what size plug or wood, just weight the thing so it floats level with the top of the back barely out of the water. Keep your line tie close to midline (not on midline though or the plug will struggle to wobble) and a long vertical face to your lip (ie the distance from the line tie to the start of the diving plane ) and it will run deep. Also keep the slope of the diving plane pretty sharp (close to 45 degrees).

Turns out a high slot lefty lip will take a plug just as deep as a conrad lip if you rebend it a bit (lefty lips come with a very shallow diving plane angle).

Ross for me personally I prefer to do it by hand. Now if i was making 100's of darters I'd come up with something else. I do make fixtures for the front lip angle as I feel that is a very important step and that fixture makes use of a belly hole positioned plug fixture. The slope I just bandsaw, with another belly hole positioned fixture. The slope is cut about a 1/16 to an 1/8 from the finished dimension freehand and then I take a sheet of sand paper on a flat surface and do the final sanding by hand. I don't like using a belt sander myself. There is not a lot of material coming off and I feel like I can control the final dimension better by just rubbing the final wood off. I tried the belt sander, and we have a real nice unit at work, but found i made a mess out most of them and usually took too much off. I prefer to sneak up on the final size.

George on the mini mussos what lip are you/he using?

I'm actually on my way to test swim the one I built, I used a Danny 2 lip (I think) and it carries a big belly weight, they weigh 2.7oz with hardware and a quick coat of paint, without epoxy.
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duplicate post

Chris, sounds like you are describing a standard jr sized Musso surface swimmer. It uses a Lefty 2 midslot (which should be called Musso 2 since Lefty just took it from Musso).

Musso didn't build one like I have shown. He did build a small swimmer for personal use that he never sold. I've since learned it was a fatter plug and used a full sized lip. I think there is a picture of it in the Pinaturo articles. It only had one belly hook.

These plugs were originally something I dreamed up and described in this thread a few years back http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/how-favorite-plug-forum-guides/55067-something-constructive.html. The dimensions are in there somewhere. I know Fred (eskimo) built a variation that worked for him. Somebody else actually copied them and was selling them over on the saltwater edge forum a year or two ago.

You can use a lefty 1 midslot for surface use, but they also work very well with a lefty 1 high slot lip and swim as deep as a little conrad set up that way. The ones I built used a small belly weight and tiny tail weight. I like 'em better than the small danny surface swimmer although that plug fishes pretty well itself

Here are two nice fish (and one great fisherman) taken on the little plug

George heres the one Im building, just got back from test swimming it with 3 different lips.

This version is 5.75" long, weighs 2.75 oz rigged the way it is now, carries cut 2/0 hooks and a flag on the rear (3/0 will work too without marrying)

Belly weight is 11 grams and is 2 5/8" back from the nose. Sits just in the body enough to be able to cover it.

Sits low in the water, with just the top 1/4 of the plug exposed.

I tried it with a danny 2 lip first, stayed right on top, maybe 2" down, great tail wag but anything except a slow crawl made it roll out.

Next was a lefty 2 lip, better holding but still rolled out, but not as much.

Best results where with a pikie 3 lip, slow crawl stayed on top, with 2/3 of the body rolling nicely, flag waving and making a nice v wake, on a faster steadier retrieve it went 2 ft down, no matter how hard I tried or fast I cranked it wouldn't roll out.

So Ill be building em with the pikie 3 lip seeing it gives me a more versatile plug for the surf and the conditions I fish. If they were for flat calm water I'd go with the lefty 2, but I barely fish those conditions.

My testing spot is nice it has a little calm back bay on one side and current flow bay side that is usually pretty choppy on the other, so I get most the conditions Ill actually be fishing in.

Think this plug will fit nicely into my rotations and the spots I fish.

Sounds like you've got something that does what you want, so go with it but for future reference a few thoughts.

A standard surface swimmer is weighted to float level with the water line @ 1/2 way up the plug. I purposely build them heavier to get them working slower, but there is a tradeoff in that they tend to get subsurface easier than I'd want.

A standard lip size would have the angle at or a slight amount below the chin of the plug. The further you drop it the more roll (and depth) you get.

The standard lip for a surface swimmer is a mid-slot lip. In your picture it looks like you are using a high slot lip (and pikie lips are all high slot). This can be made to work if the plug is very fat and buoyant and you want a lip to pull the nose down and put the tail up with a fast wag (think surfster) but usually high slots are used to take a plug down and make it stable.

Just as an experiment you might try the same shape with a lefty 1 mid slot (or pikie 2 with a lower hole punched in it), and less belly weight. It would also allow you to use 3/0 or 6x 2/0 hooks.

Another thing to watch out for when testing plugs at this time of year is how high above the water your rod tip is. We tend to test from docks and jetties and the higher rod position often keeps a plug running higher than you get when you fish lower so be sure to drop your rod tip during the retrieve and see what occurs.

Whatever, the first big fish you hit with it will make it all worthwhile.

George thanks for taking the time to elaborate on the lips and process.

The reason/thought process behind this plug is as follows:

I fish a bunch of shallow reef systems, sweeping current with lots of white wash and sub surface plugs are the go to, usually redfins or ss darters fish dead slow, cast into the wash get tight to the plug and slow crank, the pockets are very small and pretty shallow no more than 6 feet, but its about a 50 to 75 yard cast depending on the stage of the tide and how far out you safely get.

So the point of the plug is to cast good (this is one of the better casting metal lips I've built) and be able to dig in/hold in the wash and into the pockets, think this plug will fit that niche great.

Ive done well with eelys there but they lack the needed casting distance to hit the sweet spot.

I barely fish calm water unless its false dawn or sunset, so having a true surface plug isn't called for that much.

I would rather have a plug that will excel in being a subsurface swimmer than I can tune a little to make it stay on top than a true surface swimmer like a danny or surfster. Or one I can just slow crank it for topwater action.

I do have a bunch of lips and weights coming in, and a couple dozen of these bodies turned that havent been drilled out yet for hooks, weights or lip slots. So Ill play around with them and try and find maybe a couple ways to build the same body but have different actions,weights and lips.

If I stick with this lip/weighting it will get 6x 2/0 or 3/0 hooks.

the dock I use for my swim testing is pretty sweet, it extends pretty far out and is level with the water at high tide and sometimes even a little under water, so its a pretty good spot.

Ive made the mistake of testing on a higher perch and then found out the plug is a different animal in the surf.

Next up are needles.

I've had repeated success on large fish (as in over 30#) with Eddy's small needle. It has gotten to the point were I consider it a "go to" plug. Eddy is buzy rebuilding his fishing cottage so he won't be making any more any time soon.......so I ripped him off.

Numbskull
I really like the looks of that needle, and I can see by the wear you must like it as much as you point out here. Do you fish this sub surface? How is the sink rate and is it a level or slight tail down sink?
Thanks

I checked with Eddy and he kindly allowed me to share the info on his needle.

It is birch, a 7/8" dowel.
6 3/8 long
1.75 oz with 3/0 belly and 4/0 tail siwash
.47 nose
.52 tail
straight taper nose to 1 3/4" back where the plug is .70 wide
curve from 1.75 back to 2.5 back where the plug is .86 wide.
Straight dowel at .86 from 2.5 to 3.5 back, then a slight concave taper to the tail which is .52"
Hook and eyes are at 2 3/4"
Two buck shot weights each side of the hook (3.5g each) one at 2 1/4" one at 3.5".
Small tail weight (5.3 g).

It is weighted similar to the pink one in this picture he posted years ago, although the body shape is more like the smaller green one.

It sinks tail down and wakes along top with a slow retrieve.

This is a really good design. Thank Eddy when it takes you a good fish. Please don't use this info for a commercial venture.

I checked with Eddy and he kindly allowed me to share the info on his needle.

It is birch, a 7/8" dowel.
6 3/8 long
1.75 oz with 3/0 belly and 4/0 tail siwash
.47 nose
.52 tail
straight taper nose to 1 3/4" back where the plug is .70 wide
curve from 1.75 back to 2.5 back where the plug is .86 wide.
Straight dowel at .86 from 2.5 to 3.5 back, then a slight concave taper to the tail which is .52"
Hook and eyes are at 2 3/4"
Two buck shot weights each side of the hook (3.5g each) one at 2 1/4" one at 3.5".
Small tail weight (5.3 g).

It is weighted similar to the pink one in this picture he posted years ago, although the body shape is more like the smaller green one.

It sinks tail down and wakes along top with a slow retrieve.

This is a really good design. Thank Eddy when it takes you a good fish. Please don't use this info for a commercial venture.

I will thank Eddy and then I will thank you for going out of your way to post! Thank you.
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Chris, sounds like you are describing a standard jr sized Musso surface swimmer. It uses a Lefty 2 midslot (which should be called Musso 2 since Lefty just took it from Musso).

Musso didn't build one like I have shown. He did build a small swimmer for personal use that he never sold. I've since learned it was a fatter plug and used a full sized lip. I think there is a picture of it in the Pinaturo articles. It only had one belly hook.

These plugs were originally something I dreamed up and described in this thread a few years back http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/how-favorite-plug-forum-guides/55067-something-constructive.html. The dimensions are in there somewhere. I know Fred (eskimo) built a variation that worked for him. Somebody else actually copied them and was selling them over on the saltwater edge forum a year or two ago.

You can use a lefty 1 midslot for surface use, but they also work very well with a lefty 1 high slot lip and swim as deep as a little conrad set up that way. The ones I built used a small belly weight and tiny tail weight. I like 'em better than the small danny surface swimmer although that plug fishes pretty well itself

I think you mean Frank, not Fred. close though
I'm not good with names either


good thread George

I'm sure I'll post something when I have something.

I think you mean Frank, not Fred. .

Yup, sorry Frank, Fred is too old to remember any of this stuff :uhuh:

Well, today I turned five small Musso swimmers, 4 7/8" and worked on my template for the "Eddy Needle". I turned 2 of the Eddy needles, but didn't have any Birch (neither did the local stores.) So, I turned them in Maple. Will give me something to horse around with until I cal get some Birch.
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Not the most productive week. Spent more time drilling and weighting than turning.

Did fool with some variants on needle weighting. Obviously the through wire tail weight and belly weight ahead of the hook scheme is the time proven standard, but all this talk about floating needles and gliding needles got me curious so here are a few things I plan to test. Set them up by rigging the plug then moving weights around held on by rubber bands until the plug floated/sank at the attitude I wanted. Can always fine tune varying by hook size.

There is also a clever way to weight needles posted by PM and Bassmaster (I think) by drilling all the way from the tail to the hook hole with a large bore drill, then positioning a through wire weight somewhere in that distance and holding it in place with plastic tubing as a spacer.

That was Dave who showed me. I do think someone showed him if I recall.
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I have been thinking a minimal belly weight just to keep the needle hook side down and then weight at the back to get the float angle desired. Probably as small a diameter lead as will work within the length from end to hook or belly weight hole. Trying to keep as much weight in the back half for casting, but evenly distributed in the back half. Just a theory so far. Plus the selection of lead diameter is a bit limited. Smallest I am seeing is .22 inch diameter, and I would probably like to go smaller for some I am messing around with. They are only about 1/2" OD. Like a Boone needle, only heavier and thru wired and with much better hooks. Might resort to wound lead strips or wound lead wire if need be.

Bob, if you look at George's pics of his and Tagger's, I think you will see more weight forward than you are leaning towards. When I went heavily tail weighted, they floated almost vertically, which did not work for my needle needs, as it is a sloooowwwww retrieve.

Maybe the belly weight forward of the hook then, and shorten the tail weight a bit with the spacer. Time to experiment with water and dome poorly drilled "sticks".

Bob, if you look at George's pics of his and Tagger's, I think you will see more weight forward than you are leaning towards. When I went heavily tail weighted, they floated almost vertically, which did not work for my needle needs, as it is a sloooowwwww retrieve.

Flap built some "floaters" as he called them that were just tail weighted and floated vertically with the nose just out of the water. They would straighten right out and wake as he retrieved them. They were very small by my standards but I saw him take a #40 fish with one.

I'm curious to see one of Dave's (Surf Asylum) glide needles and see what he is on to there.

Likewise I set one of the ones I showed to float nearly level with the tail slightly down. My idea is to try barely moving it/dead drifting it on nights with awful fire.

I had pretty good luck with a small needle I made a few years ago and like usual never really used it much till last fall. I only belly wgt it with 3 belly wgts. I made it out of maple. I used the .240 dia. lead shot. 1 in front of hook and 2 behind spaced out. It sank really slow and horizontal. I fished it really slow in a good current and I enjoyed it a lot. I am going to make some more this winter and intend to really give it a good work out this coming year.

Bob I can help you out with a smaller dia. tail wgt. around .187 but it has a .050 dia h thru hole so you will have to use a small thru wire. domn't know if that is something you want to use.

Here is what George was talking about as far as using plastic to adjust the tail wgts.

I am also going to give this longer skinny needle, 2nd from bottom, a better work out this year too. I like the skinnyness of this where i fish with all the sandeels in residence. This was a bitch to make with the tru drilling on the small dia. and it being maple. It was patterned off a shorter Stezko senior one I borrowed from Capesams which I copied to exact dimensions, the bottom one. From there I stretched it out and kept it skinny with same retaliative shape which appealed to me.
Funny how each year I go into this plug building thing with the intent of fishing a specific type lure more in the up coming year. This year it is needles.

Thanks Paul. I have some skinny wire that I got from Slip to use on these. Should fit the smaller hole OK. Bob

Bob if you need thinner wire I have rolls of Malin wire in varies sizes.

Anderson's flat glide is amazing, when fish wouldn't hit anything they would crush the flat glide.

I have one that's beat up and and plan on seeing if I can make a clone of it. And a bigger version that sinks the same way but faster.
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Here are the Eddy Needles next to the 4 7/8" Musso Swmmers and 7" Dannys. I should be swimming these Needles in a few weeks, can't wait to give them a try.

I also turned three 7 1/4" A40s, but I have to wait for some lips to arive in the mail before I drill them.

Thanks Chef. I will let you know as things develop.

Fat little Musso's. Look a lot like the ones he made for himself.

Yeah George, like Flap did. Maybe push along at a bit of an angle, not completely flat out at a slow retreive.

Probably look a little fatter in the pic than they are. They are widest at the hook at 1.17. I am also going to make some around 6".
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Got out today and tested a few things I was thinking about for my challenge swap plugs. These were what I brought with me.

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac167/alphabaits/IMG_4736_zps45adfef2.jpg

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac167/alphabaits/IMG_4741_zps563d99f6.jpg

The top two are plugs I have made before with a slight tweak in body shape. I just wanted to see what happened if I swapped weight and hook holes. I liked it with the weight forward of the hook but the other way makes it hunt more and would probably make a good darter. I may make a few of both.

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac167/alphabaits/IMG_4742_zps99f70843.jpg

Next one I had to bend down the line tie and switched the back treble out from a 3/0 to a 2/0 but swam OK on top and would go deeper on a faster retrieve. Still need to mess with this one a bit more.

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac167/alphabaits/IMG_4739_zps363f59cd.jpg

The next one is the Nike'ish looking one. I was surprised at this one. It had an extremely tight wiggle but was very hard to start. Almost had to snap it to get it under and even then would only get going once the entire plug was subsurface. May try adding a slightly larger metal lip on top of the lower face. Back to the drawing board for this one.

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac167/alphabaits/IMG_4740_zps815c5d19.jpg

And finally the bottom one. Very happy with this one. I didn't have high hopes for this but liked it a lot.




I copied an Arcadia Reef popper. I tried some detail carving for the first time. Lots to learn there. Overall I was very pleased the way it came out. Sits with about half the mouth out of the water. Just need to figure out how I want to paint it.

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac167/alphabaits/IMG_4743_zps1ad308a8.jpg

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac167/alphabaits/IMG_4744_zpsf9cf8482.jpg

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac167/alphabaits/IMG_4745_zps88bc2028.jpg

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac167/alphabaits/IMG_4746_zps1cc130cd.jpg

Ted did you try turning the line tie on those big eyed lipless swimmers on the horizontal instead of vertical? Might be able to better adjust the swim depth that way on those? Just a thought! I made the same type of ;ipless and had more options with adjustment that way! They all look great by the way! Love your work!
:uhuh:

I have not with this type of plug. I have done it with some other stuff like some hand carved stuff and you do get a lot more "tunability". I will give that a try on these before I make any more changes.

Awesome, inventive, and unique.

I'm confused though. The last swimmer you show in your hand looks like a Nike (or even more like a FW plug called the bearcat) to me. Is that the one you liked or the one that wouldn't swim for you?

I think I forgot a pic in there. It is the bottom one in the second pic. The one in my hand is the the one I was having trouble with.

The one you liked looks like a skinny musso lipless. Some things on the original that helped are making the face a touch wider than the body and lowering (or bending) the line tie a touch.

The one that struggled looks like a large Nike, which I have trouble getting to swim other than in current (makes sense since he built it for the canal). The next size down nike, like Paul reproduced, is a better still water swimmer (bigger face).

The popper is the nutz. Was it an offcenter turning or "hand carve"?

Have not decided on what I will be making shortly! Must finish cleaning basement so I can move a bunch of crap out of my shop TO the basement! Still have a few unfinished CCBC darters to finish.

The one you liked looks like a skinny musso lipless. Some things on the original that helped are making the face a touch wider than the body and lowering (or bending) the line tie a touch.

The one that struggled looks like a large Nike, which I have trouble getting to swim other than in current (makes sense since he built it for the canal). The next size down nike, like Paul reproduced, is a better still water swimmer (bigger face).

The popper is the nutz. Was it an offcenter turning or "hand carve"?


The popper is handcarved but unlike anything Ive done before. All the stuff I've handcarved before was just a profile cutout then a topdown view cutout. Kind of easy and nothing over complicated. This one has for lack of a better term, compound curves. They kind of go in two different directions at once. I had to do some of the roughing out with the drum sander. It all came together rather quickly and evenly to my surprise. I'm almost afraid to paint it because something has to go wrong. The power will go out when I put it on the spinner or something. I was afraid that the way the tail hanger was set up that it would turn the plug over but It sits very nice and is pretty stable. It is weighted on the belly hanger. They say that all their lures [Arcadia Reef] are hand made from wood. I have no idea how they do it and keep everything so consistent.

Here's a few that I just finished.

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac167/alphabaits/IMG_4760_zpsa1887a6d.jpg

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac167/alphabaits/IMG_4763_zps725d07bc.jpg

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac167/alphabaits/IMG_4768_zpsb172b3aa.jpg

Elegant seems the best word for those.

Greek, those are some cool looking plugs, and the finished ones look like some reel fishy plugs. Making me want to get back in the workshop!
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Great looking plugs, well done.

Ted, your paint blending is incredible, especially on the herring paint! Love the stainless lips you make!

Finished epoxy on the Conrad Jrs. Sit in the water with the back poking out, water line above lip slot and above the rear wire hole. That plug is white pine w/ 9 gram belly weight. Time to swim the finish product.
Just spun a Conrod Jr w/ soft maple. Comparable body weight sans weight and hardware 46gr. maple/ 32gr. pine. did a float test w/ 3/0 & 2/0 hooks (3). Sank head first with 9 gr. belly weight. Sank less w/5gr.belly weight. Floated perfect w/o any weight. Plug weighed bare soft maple w/3-3/0 hooks 2.6oz/ Weight w/Pine finished paint & epoxy w/3-3/0 hks. 2.3oz.
3/0 marry easy (cut), 2/0 OK. I rather 3/0. What hooks usually go with this plug? Any reason not to use a dressed siwash? 5/0 or /6/0.
Plug swap plugs; 1 finished, waiting on color response on other.

Finished epoxy on the Conrad Jrs. Sit in the water with the back poking out, water line above lip slot and above the rear wire hole. That plug is white pine w/ 9 gram belly weight. Time to swim the finish product.
.

Definitely try one with more weight. Probably another 5-7 grams. Your's sounds more like it is set up as a surface swimmer.

They work well if they float level with the back just barely out of the water (the tail will be well below the surface). Your plug will swim fine, but it will not get as deep as one weighted more heavily, it will also require a faster retrieve to fight its buoyancy and stay down. Most importantly (I think) it will not suspend as well when you pause it......and that is when the plug gets hit the most often in my experience.

I've done little this week and am working this weekend :sad: so I've got little to offer this week.

George the belly weight hole was taken off PM's drawing. With the hooks it's barely out of the water. adding more may make it sink? The maple version actually sinks head first w/9gr. granted the stock alone is approx 14 gr. heavier. I try to swim this week and get back w/results. Thanks

Sorry, if it is barely floating it is perfect already.

I did speak with a guy who floated a bunch of originals for me when I was first trying to resurrect these plugs. He mentioned that some of his Pichneys floated head down and there was a lot of variation among the plugs he floated. I've not tried one set up as such, however. Guys also talked about upsizing the front hook (which would pul the head down) on the Jr version almost as if it was the norm to do it.

Sanded and primed a bunch of stuff on Friday night.

Those torpedoes, needles, some odds and ends that I never finished and some plugs that I scored from g2h that came with the lathe.

Hopefully will be using Paul's carbide cutter tomorrow on some Saltys ayc I bought. 1.75" stuff, going to make some Ccbc surfsters and some big pikies with it and maybe some of those early pichney giant atom 40s

Need to figure out a cheap and easy spray booth, work area doesn't have any windows, so could be a problem.
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Sorry, if it is barely floating it is perfect already.

I did speak with a guy who floated a bunch of originals for me when I was first trying to resurrect these plugs. He mentioned that some of his Pichneys floated head down and there was a lot of variation among the plugs he floated. I've not tried one set up as such, however. Guys also talked about upsizing the front hook (which would pul the head down) on the Jr version almost as if it was the norm to do it.

George went back to float test the Jr w/ 2/0 & 3/0 hooks on all three hook hangers. The tail is slightly lower almost covering the tail section. I need to do my homework on the water. Results next week.

Swam the Conrad Jr (pine), very windy, choppy and dirty water. Couldn't see the plug until it was a rod lengths away. Couple feet at that distance. Tide was 3/4 down and didn't pursue anymore swims fearing losing the plug. Did this last year same tide loss a Conrad Sr. low water is around 6'. Hit the high tide next week hopefully the water clears. Spun a few maple and AYC Conrad Jr for eelskins. Stock for myself.

tested a new needle design today, 7.5" floater at 1.75oz, one big .5oz belly weight about 3/4 back from the nose, with two 3/0 vmcs.

slow retrieve it makes a massive v wake, bigger than a danny or surfster, faster retrieve with some twitches it spooks left to right and glides to a stop, was going to add more weight after my first float test but after fishing it today, i think ill leave it, i have plenty of other needles that sink.

Dont have any that are TRUE floaters, but lots of slow sink ones.

will be nice to have a longer profile needle/pencil for the back bays that will serve a dual purpose.

finished sanding 40 more plugs on friday night, just need to prime and theyll be ready for paint, and then put together a large order for weights, lips, swivels, wire, etc.

have a lot of random one off stuff from a few years ago and stuff that never got finished that I want to put to bed already.

Spending the weekend cleaning the shop....then I have a few ideas I want to work on!!:uhuh:

Turned some ayc conrad jrs. and small 4 1/2" swimmers. Hoping to complete my duplicator this week, had to weld up some different sized washers to use as tnuts because I wasn't able to find t-nuts big enough and didn't want to drill and tap the lathe bed to hold the base of the dupe. Still have to make some modifications to the sled and then I'll be up and running. Hope to have some stuff finished for plugfest.

some stuff I'm working on for the Spring... ( I gave up airbrush paint-jobs awhile ago. now its rattle cans and the fish still bite just as well.)


some needlefish and small poppers. needles weigh 2-4 1/2 oz (some are notched for skins) the poppers are sugar pine and range 3/4 to 1.5 ounces

...been putting it off too long now to get ready for Plugfest...

...got a buncha boring whites done...now on to the colors...

...course I can use some direction between now and then so if you don't want to be bothered dressing tail hooks or flags ....I might be able to match your custom paint jobs...

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i395/imoldman/flags.jpg

...I know I got the Knipex around here somewhere !!!!!


Old Man aka Bob

Built some small darters this week. Had a lot of them so I fooled around a bit with pattern sawing. I liked the results and thought someone else might be interested.

First you need a decent band saw that can hold good tension on a blade, and a decent jig that will hold your plug steady and square. Next you set up a guide stick with a notch for the saw blade. I clamp this to the table then clamp a piece of scrap perpendicular and behind it to prevent the guide stick from being pushed backwards.

Then you need your sled, which will hold the plug square over the pattern you want to cut. Mine has a top and bottom pattern, but you only need the bottom pattern. I use a tail pin to index the plug and a belly hole pin to hold it upright.

Then index the sled to the guide bar and cut.

The end result is a consistent quick curved cut. The plug shown was from a timid early try, but by shimming under the plug while in the sled I can cut much closer to the final line. I then clean up on a belt sander (although you can also pattern sand with a disc sander and that would be the way to go if you have one).

Nice, George. I must admit that I have just turned darter bodies and have not yet built anything to help with replicating the slope cut....
This morning I have eyes and belly grommets to epoxy in. Hope to wire this first run in the afternoon, along with turning some more bodies. Still working with the color shift paint, but cannot get the brilliance of the green to show up in the photos. Same plug in all three shots. Constantly changes with the angle and light.

George your wealth of knowledge and willingness to share it, is a priceless tool we all end up borrowing from you. Thanks for everything you post.

Willingness my eye. He never showed me that yesterday. I think I did scope it out but he wasn't revealing about it and it was hard to tell inthat mess he calls a basement
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Well, spent some time painting and sealing this weekend while not working on the bathroom. Here are some pics of the Eddie needles, 7" Danny, Small 4 3/4" swimmers, and Small Musso swimmers. I have another 5 with paint drying

more pics

and a few more

The popper is handcarved but unlike anything Ive done before. All the stuff I've handcarved before was just a profile cutout then a topdown view cutout. Kind of easy and nothing over complicated. This one has for lack of a better term, compound curves. They kind of go in two different directions at once. I had to do some of the roughing out with the drum sander. It all came together rather quickly and evenly to my surprise. I'm almost afraid to paint it because something has to go wrong. The power will go out when I put it on the spinner or something. I was afraid that the way the tail hanger was set up that it would turn the plug over but It sits very nice and is pretty stable. It is weighted on the belly hanger. They say that all their lures [Arcadia Reef] are hand made from wood. I have no idea how they do it and keep everything so consistent.

Here's a few that I just finished.

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac167/alphabaits/IMG_4760_zpsa1887a6d.jpg

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac167/alphabaits/IMG_4763_zps725d07bc.jpg

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac167/alphabaits/IMG_4768_zpsb172b3aa.jpg

Really love the shape of that bottom plug. Awesome

George your wealth of knowledge and willingness to share it, is a priceless tool we all end up borrowing from you. Thanks for everything you post.


Agreed. I second The Greek as I've burrowed a million of George's techniques/ideas.

I built a similar sled the first time I looked at a photo of it, although I didn't use a guide and I think I put flashing on it which caused sparks.

genius

and a few more

Nice!

Agreed. I second The Greek as I've borrowed a million of George's techniques/ideas.


Which is good since pretty soon I'll need you guys to show me how to do it all over again. :scratch:

Working on some bottles and bottle darters. A little of everything. I will put up pics when done
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Couple upgrades to the spinner box. Fender washers on plexi doors with magnetic catch. Handles on sides to carry more easily. First round in the box for the year!

great looking spinner. I was having problems with my epoxy so I went back and rebuilt a storage bin spinner as I've had better luck with that then anything I came up with after.

That is beautiful, I still spend two hours hand turning, gotta get moving on a spinner project
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Thanks. But it is far from perfect....
The motor came out of a microwave carousel and is perfect for this. Need to add an in-line on/off switch for carousel. Currently it requires me to plug/unplug from power strip, which can be tricky when you have a wet epoxied plug to load.... The design of the box also limits me to being able to touch up a plug during the front third of its rotation. But it is for drying, not applying....

I have a motor in the shed from one of those George Forman type rotisserie. Just need to start putting together the plan and get to it.
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Building a jig to hold a plug while applying epoxy before transferring to spinner. Want to be able to rotate it while applying as well.

Then applying second coat to 20 plugs, since the first coat hasn't hardened enough and is just a little tacky to the touch. Not enough to leave fingerprints, but ..... Got a couple syringes to make a better measurement.

Been off the building as I have been stripping and refinishing a not quite antique pine table that is going to be an office desk for the better half. Was a wax finish that I stripped with mineral spirits and 0000 steel wool. Took a lot of time and gave off a smell like BO...... Two coats of Spar satin on the legs and stretchers. Flip later today to get second of four coat on the top.

I've been trying to finish up my dupe the last week or so, haven't turned anything new in a while. It's finished for the most part just have to add the handles. Thanks to everyone that helped me out, professor m and mojo7 and I borrowed some ideas from fishbumwannabe. The whole project cost me $5 and a few plugs.

One last picture, I made it so you can adjust the follower without removing the base of the sled

excellent. well done. now get to turning.
Just a note when you do stuff like pine, ayc, port orford, red and white cedar, cherry you can fly thru the stuff. When you go onto maples, birch, locust and apple:), hardwoods you will need to really go slow with your stock removal. You will probably rip a few out from between the centers :uhuh:. Cutting the edges off the pieces, making an octagon out of it will help immeasurably. I suggest that be your next creation. I like to use a band saw with a long 45 degree block others use table saw tilted at 45. I did a how to show my way several years ago but have no idea where it is now

Thanks for the tips Paul, I have that thread you mentioned bookmarked. I was thinking of making a similar jig for the tablesaw so I could use the same jig for different sized stock. For now I just rounded up some blanks with the roughing gouge before mounting the base to the lathe.

I'm cursing my duplicator right now. I'm getting like Paul, I've got dozens of everything turned but nothing anywhere near finished. :1poke:

that would work too. Just don't want to hear about you whacking your knuckles off and breaking some fingers trying to get the stock down to a round shape.

lol that was the old Paul. The new Paul is even slower and has even more stuff half done. I think I need to start making a list of what I got so when I die my wife will know what to tell anyone who comes over to get that wooden crap out of the cellar was intended to be when finished. She may just call it kindling.

Ryan 560 enjoyed meeting you yesterday. Thats a sweet looking needle you have there.

Nice meeting you too Billy, Your club put on a great show I learned alot. Thanks for the compliment and the good deal on the redfins and plug lips.

One last picture, I made it so you can adjust the follower without removing the base of the sled

Nice work, looks great!

Ross , them Mac's look nice !
Nice work

I've been trying to finish up my dupe the last week or so, haven't turned anything new in a while. It's finished for the most part just have to add the handles. Thanks to everyone that helped me out, professor m and mojo7 and I borrowed some ideas from fishbumwannabe. The whole project cost me $5 and a few plugs.

I miss my homemade duplicator at times. Looking back now it was more work but much more enjoyable then a Vega.

Finished some lipless swimmers I was doing for the challenge swap. Here's one next to Numbskull's version which I believe is a Musso copy. Top one I screwed up the face on so I threw a lip on it Jinx style.

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac167/alphabaits/IMG_4886_zps2bcb4176.jpg

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac167/alphabaits/IMG_4898_zpsf62cdd49.jpg

Very cool, Ted. How do they swim? Do they stay on the surface or dive subsurface?

I also notice the difference in the line tie location. The musso clones seemed to be set too low which created too much roll. Bending the eye up helps (and I noticed he did this on the ones he fished that are now on his display board). Musso's smallest version ended up with a midline eye so he must have been thinking like you. I like your sleeker shape a lot, the clones I built seem unnaturally short and fat in the water.

Gets me all excited to experiment some more.

They are subsurface. They will not stay on top. They will hang around just under the surface with a slow retrieve. They are belly weighted, not heavily and no tail weight. The line tie is on center and right below where the two cuts meet 30 degrees on the lower 60 degrees on the upper. I also have a small shallow scoop on the face that is only below the line tie. Don't know if it helps or not as I have not done these without it. I was real excited when I swam the first one. I liked it so much I didn't want to mess with it by trying to tailweight it. here is a pic of the face.

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac167/alphabaits/IMG_4739_zps363f59cd.jpg

Awesome work Ted, really nice profile on those!

Great stuff. That jinx style rules.

Still had no time to test my versions of the Musso lipless yet, Ted yours look great. I'm going to belly weight one of them as Musso did and also try a Nike style weighting also. Keep seeing stuff on the boards about BIG darters so I gave one a shot last night. Totally winged it on this one, used one of George's for reference. 9" and 1.75" dia. looks like right about 5 oz. finished.

Still had no time to test my versions of the Musso lipless yet, Ted yours look great. I'm going to belly weight one of them as Musso did and also try a Nike style weighting also. .

No harm in trying anything, but just for the record it was Frech who weighted his darters (following Gibbs lead). Musso didn't weight his. Too much tail weight will make the plug roll more easily.

And for heaven's sake fish that green thing and see what you can do with it. If you lose it I have more.

No harm in trying anything, but just for the record it was Frech who weighted his darters (following Gibbs lead). Musso didn't weight his. Too much tail weight will make the plug roll more easily.

And for heaven's sake fish that green thing and see what you can do with it. If you lose it I have more.

No weight in the Darter, was referring to the Lipless Musso which I really want to get to work. As far as the green thing it was in the water quite a bit before the storm and worked good, just no fish around to give it a taste! The small one is good also, :love: them!

A whole lot of awesome plugs and info being posted in this thread guys. :kewl:

I have not posted much but I have been busy building some plugs and a bit of collaboration stuff. Mostly non-lipped plugs which I like to make and fish but also a new swimmer I am happy with and eager to fully test this Spring. I just need to get some pics taken and posted.

still making a few more Musso darters including the long skinny one that I had not made before

That blue Mac is sweet lookin Chris
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still making a few more Musso darters including the long skinny one that I had not made before

Sweet looking plug. I'll be curious how you do with it and how it compares to the Gibbs. I have a copy that was given me but was not impressed by its action and never understood why Musso picked it to be the model for his plastic super strike (which has even less action in my hands).

this is my first attempt at blending colors.....next step epoxy!

Sweet looking plug. I'll be curious how you do with it and how it compares to the Gibbs. I have a copy that was given me but was not impressed by its action and never understood why Musso picked it to be the model for his plastic super strike (which has even less action in my hands).

Don't know, but the plastic ones crush fish.

Sweet looking plug. I'll be curious how you do with it and how it compares to the Gibbs. I have a copy that was given me but was not impressed by its action and never understood why Musso picked it to be the model for his plastic super strike (which has even less action in my hands).

I wondered this after getting my hands on the 3oz. In that recent article he mentioned they started doing better on the Gibb's darter when less larger bait was around and that's when he created his own slimmer version.

With the volume of plugs he put out I wonder if he kept the square ends on his bodies.

still making a few more Musso darters including the long skinny one that I had not made before


great stuff

I have made a bunch of those skinny darters but like George I was never really impressed with them compared to his other sizes, especially the size under that. Each one has its favorite conditions. My favorite is the large Pinchney for action but that is me and I am in no way saying Musso was, is, not a great darter maker. I would take a wooden one over a plastic one though any day but they are hard to come by and expensive so it is hard to throw them at that price so next best is to make them yourself and try to get them to perform like the originators wanted.

Don't know, but the plastic ones crush fish.

It is all relative. Unless you have fished the bigger darters you have nothing to compare the plastic one to. The plastic work, but more like a subsurface needle than a darter in all but the fastest water. The wide wooden plugs are a class above that.

Then again, I never liked the skinny Gibbs darter either and that is a very good plug for some people so there is always more to learn.

This is what I have been building for last few months. Still need to buy jaws but pretty much done. Just need to assemble them. Got some plugs going too but not far enough along yet to post anything.

You can engrave my name into one of them. I'm feeling lucky this year!

Conrad Jrs, 9" .3.5oz needles and the reknown "Billy D" stubby.

This is what I have been building for last few months. Still need to buy jaws but pretty much done. Just need to assemble them. Got some plugs going too but not far enough along yet to post anything.

WOW...
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