looking to set up a couple rods for leadcore trolling and Im looking for suggestions. Is a roller tip required for this? I will be using a Penn 113H with this rod.

Don't need a roller. Go to Cms in New Bedford. Westport bait and tackle has a few Cms custom lead core rods that you can probably score a real good deal on especially if you buy 2 of them.
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I have a custom 6 ft rod built for wire, made by canal bait and tackle. It has an aftco roller tip and gimbal butt with cap. Rod is in excellent condition with limited use.$100. Can post pics later if needed.
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Roller tip is much desired, but many have regular tip. Due to repeated pressure(rubbing) on one spot in wire, you get fatigue and failure. The way many set up the wire is to have short pieces(2 ft) of heavy duty dacron, set at 200, 250 and 300ft. When you bucktailing, the dacron rubs the tip top, not the wire, plus you have the depth set (amount of wire out).

Lead core no need. I have some rods made by CMS from back when he worked out of his cellar and they are still working good I'd check out his selection I don't even use a roller for wire either, same rods. P.
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Off the rack rods - fin nor offshore 7' 15-30 lb or st croix triumph 7' 15-30 lb.
Some guys really like the ugly stick tiger as well.

Light flexible tip, fast action, and some backbone, and you're good to go - broomsticks don't fish as well.
Can't go wrong with CMS or Canal Bait if you want to have one wrapped.
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Thanks guys, I was gonna head to CMS but just wanted to be sure what I was looking for. I use roller tips on my wire set up but wasn't sure about the lead core.

If your going to have something wrapped the Lami BT857S is probably one of the more famous rods around for wire and leadcore.

Wire - must have roller
Lead core - no need for roller.

Not true according to CMS,but what do they know about rods.

I like the roller on my lead core setups. I know most feel it's not necessary, but I feel that it prevents damage to the lead core line. Less chaffing.

Not true according to CMS,but what do they know about rods.

Agreed.
We stopped using roller tips on the wire rods.

No real benefit - just one more thing to seize up.
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It is all just personal preference.

The last wire line rod I built I did not put a roller on it. It wasn't for me, I changed it back to a roller. I found there to be too much resistance for me. I went with the larger diameter Aftco roller. I use allot of my same rods for leadcore just changing the reels.

Nothing is or isn't a must......jsut preference.

Well said Beamie.
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Nothing is or isn't a must......jsut preference.


Wire or steel a roller is a must
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Agreed.
We stopped using roller tips on the wire rods.

No real benefit - just one more thing to seize up.
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I completely disagree, with out a roller is a nasty binding point
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Wire - must have roller
Lead core - no need for roller.

Skip, I'm not sure where you spend the majority of your summer BUT I am pretty sure that Paul and Jay have 100s of hours ;maybe thousands when combined trolling leadcore and wire, When they say it is just fine without a roller and you say it is a must who should we believe?Do you troll a lot of wire?BTW, I have roller tips on my wire setups but not on my leadcore.It doesn't really matter because I fish and they catch fish.

as far as leadcore there is no need for a roller tip,as far as wire if you jig with the rod then a roller tip is recommended if you jig the wire with your hand you can get by without a roller tip. anyone who buys a wire rod or wire rod setup in the shop i work we recommend a roller tip if it isn't already on it.if you look at the guys trolling wire you will see that almost everone has a roller tip on their setups

Skip, I'm not sure where you spend the majority of your summer BUT I am pretty sure that Paul and Jay have 100s of hours ;maybe thousands when combined trolling leadcore and wire, When they say it is just fine without a roller and you say it is a must who should we believe?Do you troll a lot of wire?BTW, I have roller tips on my wire setups but not on my leadcore.It doesn't really matter because I fish and they catch fish.


As a matter of fact i have over 10+ year experience with it. You can believe who you want its an open forum, but that will not stop me from giving my opinion, and please feel free to continue to call it out, as i only post base upon my own experience and tried and trued methods, not read on the internet or in a book like most people.

I also thought boards were open to discussions and opinions? Didnt the OP ask a question about feedback on the topic? So just because some members gave an answer is the end all? Perhaps we should post a resume with our experience and acconplishments? Maybe we can use a start rating system or fish tails to prove we know what we are tking about? Please advise........

Any other Questions?
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Even the best of tips will get an indent from the wire. Its not necessary
but a roller tip works better with electric reels. Lead core will also indent
ur tips. Make sure u get good tips.

Skippy, ease your rudder.

By you saying it is a MUST and not preference is the problem here.

I prefer rollers, Dangles has rollers BUT there are MANY users of wire with non rollers and if you walk in a shop there will be a mix of rollers and non rollers for sale. Again preference, not a MUST.

I tried the non roller, hated it, changed it back. BUT, for some people, it doesn't bother. It is that simple.

Skippy, ease your rudder.

By you saying it is a MUST and not preference is the problem here.

I prefer rollers, Dangles has rollers BUT there are MANY users of wire with non rollers and if you walk in a shop there will be a mix of rollers and non rollers for sale. Again preference, not a MUST.

I tried the non roller, hated it, changed it back. BUT, for some people, it doesn't bother. It is that simple.

How about this then, from my experience its a must for me.

So let me get this right and not to sound like a #^&#^&#^&#^& here, you all use it and hate not having one and due to the use of the word "must" as its a must for 99% of people, brash call out statements are going to be tossed out?

Lets take this a little further here, everyone should know that you can use anything on anything just about anytime its the effectiveness of what your doing, however this was a ask of opinions, and my opinion is its a must.
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How about this then, from my experience its a must for me.


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I think this is a fair statement.

In my opinion it's a matter of preference.

We keep 8 wire outfits on the boat - 6 do not have roller tips, 2 do. The 2 with them have been relegated to back up duty at this point. I personally haven't seen an appreciable difference in performance. I see the rollers as one more piece of maintenance, and with the number of days we spend on the water and the abuse the tackle takes - maintenance becomes a tangible factor.

I don't think we need to go all "online résumé" here, but I think it's safe to say I'm giving an opinion based on a significant sample size.

Most of the magazines and such will routinely state that roller tips are standard for wire - when I look around the other regular charter boats that we work with in cc bay, I'd say its 60/40 in favor of rollers vs standard.

To each his own - good luck to you this season.
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Wire - must have roller
Lead core - no need for roller.
Correct. Fished many years at Cuttyhunk with these set ups. Use carboloy, or equiv., for lead core and there will be no wearout. Also, roller tip tops not foul proof. The roller will often seize with extended SW use. Take it apart, clean and lub. Roller guides ineffective when roller shaft locks up. I have seen many rods where folks do not check and roller shafts are seized.

As a matter of fact i have over 10+ year experience with it. You can believe who you want its an open forum, but that will not stop me from giving my opinion, and please feel free to continue to call it out, as i only post base upon my own experience and tried and trued methods, not read on the internet or in a book like most people.

I also thought boards were open to discussions and opinions? Didnt the OP ask a question about feedback on the topic? So just because some members gave an answer is the end all? Perhaps we should post a resume with our experience and acconplishments? Maybe we can use a start rating system or fish tails to prove we know what we are tking about? Please advise........

Any other Questions?
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Sorry if you took offense Skipper and I certainly feel opinions are what develops a discussion. However,if a charter captain gives an opinion on a subject he has a certain amount of credibility that can not be overlooked. I have been fishing the canal for over 10 years but I am no expert on anything canal related,it has no impact on my pocketbook,just fun. I have heard you are an accomplished computer geek and your expertise certainly carries weight(pun) in that forum. IMO describing a roller tip as a must was akin to insulting those who choose the alternative. 10 years is a long time in some circles but it doesn't cast a shadow in others.Don't forget that sometimes it is not what you say,but how you say it.

I have heard you are an accomplished computer geek and your expertise certainly carries weight(pun)

Was that a fat joke? :buds:

Update;I just got off the phone with Charlie at CMS and asked him what % of wire line rods have roller tips vs conventional and he said he builds more with conventional. Small sample size again but in sharp contrast to your estimate of 99% roller.He just builds what fishermen want and I think he also has 10+ years experience...
PEACE

Update;I just got off the phone with Charlie at CMS and asked him what % of wire line rods have roller tips vs conventional and he said he builds more with conventional. Small sample size again but in sharp contrast to your estimate of 99% roller.He just builds what fishermen want and I think he also has 10+ years experience...
PEACE


I have the up most respect for CMS, it will depend on who you speak to there as i have had rods built there, however you are correct with he will build whatever the customer wants especially if someone walks in that doesn't know what they want and the read something on the internet. Who is he to argue with the customer, however did you ask his opinion on having one or not? I would be curious to hear that response, because i have had that conversation down there and the response was roller for wire.

and 99% comment was in contrast to the people that i know.

Spoke with Charlie. He said it is mostly a regional thing with the cape guys wanting rollers and RI guys preferring conventional.He cited the failure rate with rollers with lines getting cut due to inexperience in most cases. He says he replaces a fair amount of roller tips that fail every year mostly from wire getting caught outside the roller. In conclusion,he didn't seem to think a roller is a must on wire rods.FWIW the majority of guys in that shop have been there for a long time and are short on BS.

Interesting statement on the RI guys, running wire in the BIS jigging or trolling for me and the guys i know who run it out there run rollers. And agreed on the in experienced statement.
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I think if I where charter and allowed guest to set out the lines I'd be using basket ball hoops! :)

I use a mini swivel between wire and leader with a tiny shrink wrap over the wire wrap side,,,, with an oversized roller. Works well for me and with a little instruction works for the non fisher types that frequent my vessel. :)

Same for lead, no roller

What a trouble maker that Tail Chacer is, :devil2:

Flat on back with sciatica, Gup

Interesting with the shrinkwrap over the HWT to the swivel. I also use those small in line heavy duty swivels. I have always been taught to take a couple cranks or let out a little all the time to help eliminate fatigue on the wire. Then again I run straight stainless, not monel, and jig with the rod, not hand jig. In the end the boat fishes the jigs much more than the fisherman anyways. For those who know how to work a rip, its night and day from someone dropping wire back and snapping.
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Interesting with the shrinkwrap over the HWT to the swivel.
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LOL,, replaces the callus that use to be on my thumbs,,, same set up at marker knots, that wire will tear you up... :-)
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I run one of those swivels to attach my leadcore to the leader on my tube set up. Lots of movement with the tube so it helps with line twist. I used to use an Albright knot but I like this better. Just have to be a little careful with good fish taking you straight down pulling the swivel back out thru the guides but you get used to it.
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LOL,, replaces the callus that use to be on my thumbs,,, same set up at marker knots, that wire will tear you up... :-)
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Yeah figured thats what its for and will most likely try it this year thanks for the tip!

55081

What Beamie said BT857S I've been using them since the 80's. CMS just built 2 for me a couple years ago $180 each

Thanks guys the advice was great and I appreciate all the experienced wire guys giving their point of view. Sorry for causing such a riff... :uhuh:

Pretty normal for the winter time
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I run one of those swivels to attach my leadcore to the leader on my tube set up. Lots of movement with the tube so it helps with line twist. I used to use an Albright knot but I like this better. Just have to be a little careful with good fish taking you straight down pulling the swivel back out thru the guides but you get used to it.
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This sounds familiar :)

I actually switched from the spro hd's the the spro 80 lb power swivels. They go through a little easier.
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Pretty sure that is what I use too. The 2 piece swivel, stream line, one.
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What Beamie said BT857S I've been using them since the 80's. CMS just built 2 for me a couple years ago $180 each

I am not positive but I think Lami may have actually discontinued this blank.
I have a few left in the overhead of the basement. I have noticed some of the places I buy blanks this is no longer a choice. I have heard that this blank is the same as the 8' with a foot cut off the top, so really is still available. ALL eglass, takes a beating, no graphite.....

Whats do you think of a Penn Senator 3065 40/60 for wire. This set up would be designated to jigging 4-6oz bucktails?

Whats do you think of a Penn Senator 3065 40/60 for wire. This set up would be designated to jigging 4-6oz bucktails?

That seems very beefy, 30-40 would due, but that rod would work. But what are the guides made of. Dealing with the wire you need either old school carbaloy, or Silicone Nitride or Silicone Carbide to stand up to the wire.

It has a rollers at the first set of eyes then at the tip. It is a little stiff but hoping it would be at the cost of losing fish.

I don't fish with either very much any more but have all the gear still. Like others I use the penn wire set up with a roller tip for wire line. I think there are better choices if you start from scratch and make a custom but I would go with a roller anytime you use wire. there is too much drag of the Carboloy tip on the wire and it makes for uneven retrieve.
The only lead core set up I have does not have a roller. The rod is a (believe it or not) a heavy Tsunami boat rod that has a soft action. It was not expensive (70 bucks I think) and has has worked well for the lures I pulled with it (spoons and tubes mainly.)

Last year I dusted off the down rigger and used that quite a bit at times. I caught a lot of fish with it esp when the action slowed. The only thing I didn't try but plan to this season is to use it more offshore. I think it will work for tuna and wahoo esp with the depth control features it has. (it has its own transducer and you can tell it to maintain a certain depth or maintain a depth off the bottom or to zig zag thru a depth range) Overall I find they complicate fishing to a degree but they work. If you slow troll a live bunker or squid 4' off the bottom it almost always get eaten by something. I want to try the same with a small bluefish or rigged ballyhoo offshore on a big game set up this season.