I thought Obama didn't see people as "red", or "blue", but simply as "Americans".

Obama's political mentor, Bill Ayers, used bombs to deal with people who dared to disagree with him. Obama uses the might of the federal government.

IRS knew Tea Party targeted in 2011 | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/12/irs-knew-tea-party-targeted-in-2011/)

Sorry Spence, that I had to rely on (ha-ha, wait for it!) "Faux News!" Chortle, chortle!

Hard to think this is Obama, directly. Surely one of the minions, but this is indicative of a major problem with politicizing the government.

The government we deserve. Frackwits.

Do we know if this was even political?
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Hard to think this is Obama, directly. Surely one of the minions, but this is indicative of a major problem with politicizing the government.

The government we deserve. Frackwits.

"Hard to think this is Obama, directly"

I'm sure you're correct.

But this is a man who has no use for those who disagree with him (the Republicans need to sit in the back of the bus, those who cling to guns and religion do so because they are bitter and racist, etc, etc), so it's not at all inconsistent with anything we know about him.

Meh.
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Do we know if this was even political?
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I noticed that you had no problem leaping to the conclusion that the Benghazi hearings were a nothing more than a political witch hunt. You seem awfully slective with the manner in which you apply these things...Why is that, do you suppose?

IRS is a dirty dealin , unfair ,cheating group
if there ever was one....

the tax code is a friggan Joke

Another Witch Hunt, I can't take it. :) :point:

not only that...but they simply love to order
a full investigation like they're free.

Wasn't the person most responsible a Bush appointee?

Wasn't the person most responsible a Bush appointee?

Wouldn't matter, if it's an opportunity to embarrass the POTUS and waste taxpayer money then let's go for it.

I think the odds that it wasn't partisan aren't bad. To get tax exempt status your spending has to be focused on Social Work rather than Politics. And I think we'd all agree that there are a lot of groups that just ignore this...actually, in a lot of cases it's a joke.

With the eruption of organizations claiming to be affiliated to the Tea Party I'd say this would be some ripe territory to bust cheaters and help Uncle Sam increase revenues.

-spence

not only that...but they simply love to order
a full investigation like they're free.

Rav, I was just being sarcastic as that is what the Libs would say. :hihi:
This is not good stuff, and the fact they were targeting certain political
groups is profiling at it's best. This had to come from somebody at the top.

The IRS will be the monitors for Obamacare , think they are hiring 16,000
more people, and they are the ones who will hold our personal health record information. Not good, not good at all.
I like when Congress is doing investigations, keeps them from having the time to write more Bills and Regulations, along with finding new ways to raise our taxes. :D

I think the odds that it wasn't partisan aren't bad. To get tax exempt status your spending has to be focused on Social Work rather than Politics. And I think we'd all agree that there are a lot of groups that just ignore this...actually, in a lot of cases it's a joke.


-spence
Like Planned Parenthood . I agree
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Wouldn't matter, if it's an opportunity to embarrass the POTUS and waste taxpayer money then let's go for it.

I think the odds that it wasn't partisan aren't bad. To get tax exempt status your spending has to be focused on Social Work rather than Politics. And I think we'd all agree that there are a lot of groups that just ignore this...actually, in a lot of cases it's a joke.

With the eruption of organizations claiming to be affiliated to the Tea Party I'd say this would be some ripe territory to bust cheaters and help Uncle Sam increase revenues.

-spence

"if it's an opportunity to...waste taxpayer money then let's go for it."

Spence, we are all glad that you are so committed to avoiding the wasting of taxpayers money. We all know that's a cornerstone of your agenda...

"I think the odds that it wasn't partisan aren't bad"

I, for one, am shocked that you don't believe it's partisan.

If the Tea Party doesn't deserve tax-exempt status, don't give it to them. But don't single out conservative groups for investigation...

Like Planned Parenthood . I agree
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Quite different. Most of all Planned Parenthood spending goes towards STD prevention and treatment, cancer screening, contraception and women's health.

How much does PP spend on political influence?

That's the point.

-spence

Like Planned Parenthood . I agree
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Or Heritage Foundation, or American Solutions for Winning the Future or Occupy, or......

This is a big deal, and the appropriate people should be canned. But to call this "Nixonian" show the tapes or email where it came from anywhere near the White House. I also read one report where one of the higherups called for it on all political groups, not just conservative...

Officials at the Internal Revenue Service knew in June 2011 that their agents were targeting conservative groups for additional scrutiny on tax documents, the report indicates.

Lois Lerner, director of tax-exempt organizations for the IRS, publicly admitted Friday for the first time that agents used the keywords "tea party" and "patriot" to flag applications for further review, but she stressed that was done as a "shortcut" for picking the applications to review, not out of "political bias."

Quite different. Most of all Planned Parenthood spending goes towards STD prevention and treatment, cancer screening, contraception and women's health.

How much does PP spend on political influence?

That's the point.

-spence

About 2 million, with an interesting increase during Obama years
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Lois Lerner, director of tax-exempt organizations for the IRS, publicly admitted Friday for the first time that agents used the keywords "tea party" and "patriot" to flag applications for further review, but she stressed that was done as a "shortcut" for picking the applications to review, not out of "political bias."

So, if that is true, then it is key, but proving intent is tough. If they were keying off of Occupy, or MoveOn then I guess it would be fairer...

either way, I still haven't seen anything about this being Obama's idea...

About 2 million, with an interesting increase during Obama years
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Why is that interesting?

They spent 1.9 million in 2011 but most years it's around 500K.

Over the past decade that represents about 1/2 of a percent a year. Not a lot...

-spence

Quite different. Most of all Planned Parenthood spending goes towards STD prevention and treatment, cancer screening, contraception and women's health.

How much does PP spend on political influence?

That's the point.

-spence

"Most of all Planned Parenthood spending goes towards STD prevention and treatment, cancer screening, contraception and women's health."

As usual, you ignored the things that make Planned Parenthood look repugnant, God forbid you tell the whole truth. You seemed to have forgotten lots of abortions, and a willingness to help organize international prostitution rings of under-aged girls. How does that one jive with the concern for women's health?

Why is that interesting?

They spent 1.9 million in 2011 but most years it's around 500K.

Over the past decade that represents about 1/2 of a percent a year. Not a lot...

-spence

I don't think that 500k is an average since 2009 , is it???
I find it interesting because Obamacare encompasses quite a bit of money for them doesn't it ?

Let's get back to the case at hand .
The blatant use of the IRS to target Tea Party groups .
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It's O's admin and you voted these Aholes back in.

Whoops I was just targeted!!

It's O's admin and you voted these Aholes back in.

Whoops I was just targeted!!

No it's always some low-level employee'. Those that are ultimately accountable, are never held accountable. Just ask them...
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As usual, you ignored the things that make Planned Parenthood look repugnant, God forbid you tell the whole truth. You seemed to have forgotten lots of abortions, and a willingness to help organize international prostitution rings of under-aged girls. How does that one jive with the concern for women's health?
I didn't ignore anything, only about 3% of their services are abortion related.

As for prostitution, you really need to read a little more...

Planned Parenthood, a perennial protest target because of its role in providing abortions, has notified the FBI that at least 12 of its health centers were visited recently by a man purporting to be a sex trafficker but who may instead be part of an attempted ruse to entrap clinic employees.

In each case, according to Planned Parenthood, the man sought to speak privately with a clinic employee and then requested information about health services for sex workers, including some who he said were minors and in the U.S. illegally.

Planned Parenthood's vice president for communications, Stuart Schear, said the organization has requested an FBI probe of the man's claims and has already fielded some initial FBI inquiries. However, Schear said Planned Parenthood's own investigation indicates that the man has links with Live Action, an anti-abortion group that has conducted previous undercover projects aimed at discrediting the nation's leading abortion provider.

-Washington Post

-spence

Prostitution thru Planned Parenthood.....Is it free????? ....I really do not want to have to pay for it ........I'm frugal.....LMAO......:)

I didn't ignore anything, only about 3% of their services are abortion related.

As for prostitution, you really need to read a little more...



-spence

Oh, I see...so Planned Parenthood wasn't concerned (nor are you concerned) that its employees were willing to advise on how to run a ring of 8 year-old prostitutes. What's really important here (to you and PP) is that someone posed as someone else, and came in with a hidden camers.

Spence, who gives a sh*t what group that camera crew is linked to? Did you see the videos? The issue here, the only issue, is that a multitude of PP employees gave prostitution advice, instead of calling the police.

SO instead of admitting they have a scandal on their hands, PP (and you, of course) try to pretend that the real issue is wih the camera crew.

Have you no shame? None at all?

P.S., we are all still waiting for your evidence that special forces troops weren't sent into Libya, because the Libyans didn't want us to send them. I am all atwitter with anticipation...

Oh, I see...so Planned Parenthood wasn't concerned (nor are you concerned) that its employees were willing to advise on how to run a ring of 8 year-old prostitutes. What's really important here (to you and PP) is that someone posed as someone else, and came in with a hidden camers.

Spence, who gives a sh*t what group that camera crew is linked to? Did you see the videos? The issue here, the only issue, is that a multitude of PP employees gave prostitution advice, instead of calling the police.

SO instead of admitting they have a scandal on their hands, PP (and you, of course) try to pretend that the real issue is wih the camera crew.

Have you no shame? None at all?
Actually, they called the FBI.

P.S., we are all still waiting for your evidence that special forces troops weren't sent into Libya, because the Libyans didn't want us to send them. I am all atwitter with anticipation...
I never said that. It's just more bat#^&#^&#^&#^& nonsense you made up.

-spence

Well we know the President isn't involved because he said today he just
found out about it Friday.
He also said, even though the IRS confessed already,"if this a fact" it is outrageous and needs to be dealt with.

What's this, the Associated Press reporters have been wire tapped
by the Justice Dept. ??

Actually, they called the FBI.


I never said that. It's just more bat#^&#^&#^&#^& nonsense you made up.

-spence

"Actually, they called the FBI"

They called the FBI to report the camera crew that set up the sting. They didn't call the FBI to come arrest their employees who were so casually complicit, some joking around, about aiding in prostitution.

Somehow, Planned Parenthood sees themselves as the victim here. Neither they, nor you, will utter a syllable about what their employees did.

I think the odds that it wasn't partisan aren't bad. -spence

According to the Inspector General report, "IRS’s scrutiny went beyond keywords to target ideology.”

So according to the inspector general (who probably knows almost as much about this as you do), ideology was the basis for IRS targeting. The Denver Post ran that on their front page.

Still think there's good odds that it wasn't political?

There's no evidence that Obama had anything to do with this. But any child knows it was political.

Read more: Media can't ignore Obama IRS, Benghazi scandals | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/05/13/media-cant-ignore-obama-irs-benghazi-scandals/#ixzz2TGpJ9Hhf)

Yup

WTH is this, IRS employees have received $92,million in bonuses since 2009 under the new Administration?
Interesting, for what, showing up for work? Since when did Government workers
receive tax payer bonuses, what was the target they had to exceed to get one?

According to one report, 16,900 employees got them including Commissioner
Byrd $60,270 and Lois Lerner, head of tax exempt dept $42,900.

Who in this Administration came up with this idea, why and what were their goals?

So according to the inspector general (who probably knows almost as much about this as you do), ideology was the basis for IRS targeting. The Denver Post ran that on their front page.

Still think there's good odds that it wasn't political?
You think they were out to stick it to the Tea Party?

Evidence so far just makes it look like an overburdened group was trying to be efficient. That they were targeting ideology doesn't mean it was political...

-spence

You think they were out to stick it to the Tea Party?

Evidence so far just makes it look like an overburdened group was trying to be efficient. That they were targeting ideology doesn't mean it was political...

-spence

"You think they were out to stick it to the Tea Party?"

I think that's established fact at this point...that's what the IRS admitted, and it's why the interim director of the IRS got the axe.

"look like an overburdened group was trying to be efficient. "

They sought efficiency by flagging applications that had the words "tea party" in them. So you're saying the temporry head of the IRS got fired, because his employees were trying to be "efficient". That makes tons of sense.

This is probably the most absurd, dishonest thing you have ever posted. The IRS is admitting the bias, but you still won't admit it.

That's a nice culture of intolerance implemented by Obama. Republicans sit in the back of the bus, punish your enemies, conservatives cling to guns and religion because we are bitter and racist...are these the sentiments you want in a President?

"You think they were out to stick it to the Tea Party?"

I think that's established fact at this point...that's what the IRS admitted, and it's why the interim director of the IRS got the axe.

"look like an overburdened group was trying to be efficient. "

They sought efficiency by flagging applications that had the words "tea party" in them. So you're saying the temporry head of the IRS got fired, because his employees were trying to be "efficient". That makes tons of sense.

This is probably the most absurd, dishonest thing you have ever posted. The IRS is admitting the bias, but you still won't admit it.

That's a nice culture of intolerance implemented by Obama. Republicans sit in the back of the bus, punish your enemies, conservatives cling to guns and religion because we are bitter and racist...are these the sentiments you want in a President?
The IRS has never admitted their actions were politically motivated. You don't seem to be able to grasp the difference.

-spence

The IRS has never admitted their actions were politically motivated. You don't seem to be able to grasp the difference.

-spence

Spence, if the IRS' motives for targeting the Tea Party were not political, please tell me what they were. Is it because the IRS likes the Red Sox, and the Tea Party likes the Yankees? Is that what it was?

Why do you suppose the IRS flagged applications based on the words "tea party", and not on the words "hooray abortion" or "gimme gimme gimme"? Good luck with that...

Their motives were due to the fact that the tea party is anti government anti taxes.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Spence, if the IRS' motives for targeting the Tea Party were not political, please tell me what they were. Is it because the IRS likes the Red Sox, and the Tea Party likes the Yankees? Is that what it was?

Why do you suppose the IRS flagged applications based on the words "tea party", and not on the words "hooray abortion" or "gimme gimme gimme"? Good luck with that...

They targeted the Tea Party because it was easy.

-spence

The IRS is admitting the bias, but you still won't admit it.



JIM, this has to be Spence playing the Devil's Advocate here, it's the only possible explanation. :hihi:

Their motives were due to the fact that the tea party is anti government anti taxes.
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I consider myself a tea partier. We are not anti-government, nor are we anti-taxes.

We opposed to stupid, wasteful spending, which results in exorbitant taxes.

Nebe, you are being grossly misled by whomever you get your information from. Tea partiers believe in reasonable tax levels, from which the money should be spent wisely, to help as many people as possible. Despite how hard you or Spence might try, there is nothing sinister, selfish, or greedy about that. What's sinister is the feds taking obscene amounts of money from us (most of it borrowed from the Chinese)which serves no purpose, other than to enrich politically-connected friends of politicians.

I consider myself a tea partier. We are not anti-government, nor are we anti-taxes.

We opposed to stupid, wasteful spending, which results in exorbitant taxes.

Nebe, you are being grossly misled by whomever you get your information from. Tea partiers believe in reasonable tax levels, from which the money should be spent wisely, to help as many people as possible. Despite how hard you or Spence might try, there is nothing sinister, selfish, or greedy about that. What's sinister is the feds taking obscene amounts of money from us (most of it borrowed from the Chinese)which serves no purpose, other than to enrich politically-connected friends of politicians.
And yet you are a bush supporter?! LOLOLOLOLOL.
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And yet you are a bush supporter?! LOLOLOLOLOL.
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Yeah, you seem to really think you got me there, don't you. Chortle, chortle!! You got me all right!! Except you didn't. Not even close...

George Bush made blunders as they all do, and he added much to our debt. But what did he accomplish?

He built an anti-terror infastructure from scratch. By any standard, that structure has been a success. Obama certainly has left it largely intact, so Obama thinks it works.

He is credited with saving more than one million lives in Africa, for his work with AIDS. If I have to postpone retirement for a few months to pay my taxes for that endeavor, I say "sign me up!"

He liberated Iraq. Obviously, that wasn't the stated mission of the war, but the fact is, he freed a nation of Muslims from other, monstrous Muslims.

That's some of what Bush did.

Obama added trillions more to the debt than Bush did, and he hasn't done nearly as much good for nearly as many people.

Nebe, you tell me...where am I wrong?

I told you I'm against stupid waste. I just don't see that Bush pissed away trillions...if you think he did, tell that to the million Africans he saved.

Obama spent almost a trillion on a stimulus, and what do we have to show? No meaningful change in unemployment, and a huge decrease in median wages. Not a wise investment in my book.

Nebe, go ahead. Tell me where I'm wrong.

The woman who is an absolute charge I believe her name is Sarah Ingram, has been promoted to be in charge of the Obamacare division of the IRS. While in charge of nonprofits at the IRS she received an average of $35,000 a year bonuses....bonuses that could only be approved by the Pres.
She will now be in charge of approving health care decisions.
Thank God none of this was politically motivated:)
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The woman who is an absolute charge I believe her name is Sarah Ingram, has been promoted to be in charge of the Obamacare division of the IRS. While in charge of nonprofits at the IRS she received an average of $35,000 a year bonuses....bonuses that could only be approved by the Pres.
She will now be in charge of approving health care decisions.
Thank God none of this was politically motivated:)
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Obamacare is such a mess before it starts, and now the fox is going to guard
the hen house.
Time to defund it. Take care of the 10% who don't have healthcare with a special
program and leave the other 90% to what they have. Then go to a fair or flat tax.

This scandal and these attacks on conservatives Is now about to head to other departments particularly the SEC.
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The woman who is an absolute charge I believe her name is Sarah Ingram, has been promoted to be in charge of the Obamacare division of the IRS. While in charge of nonprofits at the IRS she received an average of $35,000 a year bonuses....bonuses that could only be approved by the Pres.
She will now be in charge of approving health care decisions.
Thank God none of this was politically motivated:)
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
I'm not sure that's true. My understanding is that the Whitehouse has little influence over the IRS for obvious reasons. Most government bonuses are automatic (rather than discretionary). There is a special award bonus program that the President does sign, but the recipients are nominated by their leadership up through the ranks...given her pay and the bonus numbers thrown out it doesn't sound like she was awarded a special bonus.

The formula here is becoming pretty clear. Assume the "scandal" then toss out bits of information accurate or not regardless of context to further the story.

That's not how you investigate, it's how you confuse.

-spence

I'm not sure that's true. My understanding is that the Whitehouse has little influence over the IRS for obvious reasons. Most government bonuses are automatic (rather than discretionary). There is a special award bonus program that the President does sign, but the recipients are nominated by their leadership up through the ranks...given her pay and the bonus numbers thrown out it doesn't sound like she was awarded a special bonus.



-spence

What is the criteria for getting a taxpayer paid special awards bonus for your Govt. job?
Govt. workers are already paid for their work, get benefits, get retirement
after 25 years service and can't get fired except for wrong doing.

Pray tell, if as you say," the White House has little influence over the IRS", who does????

Simple questions that need simple answers.

I'm not sure that's true. My understanding is that the Whitehouse has little influence over the IRS for obvious reasons. Most government bonuses are automatic (rather than discretionary). There is a special award bonus program that the President does sign, but the recipients are nominated by their leadership up through the ranks...given her pay and the bonus numbers thrown out it doesn't sound like she was awarded a special bonus.

The formula here is becoming pretty clear. Assume the "scandal" then toss out bits of information accurate or not regardless of context to further the story.

That's not how you investigate, it's how you confuse.

-spence

"My understanding is that the Whitehouse has little influence over the IRS "

At a minimum, the White House selects the Treasury Secretary who oversees the IRS. In this case, Obama selected a tax dodger, but we can save that for later...

"Most government bonuses are automatic "

That's a problem, then...

"The formula here is becoming pretty clear. Assume the "scandal" then toss out bits of information accurate or not regardless of context to further the story."

Of course, there are Obama-bashers who will exaggerate or fabricate. The flip side of that coin is you, who will go to any length to deny any criticism, valid or not, be directed at Obama. You have to admit, you're a heck of a cheerleader for the guy, Johnny Carson didn't have so loyal an ally in Ed McMahon. You're like Dwight Schrute to Michael Scott on 'The Office'.

Spence, Obama has a demonstrable history of being less than tolerant to those on my side (Republicans should sit in the back of the bus, we cling to guns and religion because we are bitter and racist, liberals should punish their enemies, Romney is suffering from 'Romnesia' - haw-haw!!). Can you deny that with a straight face? This IRS thing, while there is no direct evidence to Obama, is awfully consistent with the cutlure Obama has brought with his administration...it's an obvious, demonstrable culture of intolerance towards conservatives.

As the onion peels.
Reported in the NY times --the White House Council knew about the
IRS targeting in April.

As the onion peels.
Reported in the NY times --the White House Council knew about the
IRS targeting in April.

Correct.

And Obama told us he didn't know about this issue until he saw it on the news very recently.

So, (1) either the White House Counsel didn't think this was worth mentioning to his only client, or (2) Obama lied about when/how he found out about this.

The quiet is deafening in here.

Either the fishing is good or the Lib defense has dried up. :).

The quiet is deafening in here.

Either the fishing is good or the Lib defense has dried up. :).

Truths coming out. Couple more whistleblowers on Benghazi too.

I'm not an attorney, but I don't believe you can deny guilt and then plead the fifth. I would've kept her on stand, asked a million questions and made her plead the fifth to each and everyone of them.
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As I understand it there is a difference between criminal trials and appearing before a legislative body. In a criminal trial you have the right not to testify against yourself and once you take the stand and testify you have to ask the questions asked of you and can not take the fifth. In a legislative appearance you must appear but at anytime you are allowed to take the fifth.
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I think in this case, because she defended herself first as innocent in her opening statement and then pleaded the Fifth they will bring her back after the smaller fish are fried.

As these scandals go on, it's going to be interesting to see the Libs who
consider the Constitution as a living breathing document cling to
the Fifth Amendment.
Of course they will say that one is set in stone. :hihi:

Geez, where is the other 1/2, sequestered with Joe. :huh:
This is no fun. :doh: