Looking over my National Grid gas bill today. It was like $26. I use gas for hot water and thought that was a lot of gas to be using.

details.
Customer charge--pay no matter how much you use=13
LIHEAP Enhancement charge-no idea=.83
Distribution charge step 1-lowest fee=4.34
Energy efficiency programs=.39
Tax=.78
Total uncontrollable charges for basically a minimal use=$19.81

Actual cost of gas used =$6.25

So at least in the spring through summer and part of fall , there is no money to be saved by reducing the amount of energy I use. Of the total bill , almost 80% is really outside the realm of what I can affect by using less gas.

Electric is worse in terms of total dollars in cost I cannot affect by conserving. Basic electric bill before cost of actual energy is $33.69 per month. :fury:

Have they found a way to screw you for going solar?
Maybe they'll charge you for absorbing solar power?

Gives a more direct and true meaning to the term "Going Green"!

It is not the gas used that is expensive,delivering the gas is expensive though.

It is not the gas used that is expensive,delivering the gas is expensive though.

Probably because the price of gas to deliver the gas is high. Lmao
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Salt heart, don't listen to the negativity of those that think that going green is a bad idea. I'll direct you to get free solar panels along with free installation, send me a pm and I will share what a home inspector stated to me today.
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I've got solar panels, over 6 years now, and NatGrid does the same with their billing: very little of the cost is directly controlled by the amount of electricity you use! And therefore offset by producing solar PV and sending back into the grid..

Salt heart, don't listen to the negativity of those that think that going green is a bad idea. I'll direct you to get free solar panels along with free installation, send me a pm and I will share what a home inspector stated to me today.
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Just tell all of us.
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Just tell all of us.
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Please share.
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they have to add smell to the odorless gas
in case of a leak it has to be "noticed"
something that's odorless can't be "noticed" otherwise

that "may" be the "enhancement" process

Just tell all of us.
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HomeDepot and possibly Lowes offer the free installation and panels.
I google key words and came up with a couple links shown below.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/05/10/business/energy-environment/solar-installers-offer-homeowners-deals-gaining-converts.html?pagewanted=all&

http://www.sunrun.com/landing-pages/the-home-depot

It is highly unlikely anyone in NE can put up a solar panel field on their roof large enough to supply 100% of their needs. Things like, clouds, snow cover on panels, short winter days, and night also tend to lower output. All this talk of putting up panels doesn't include any storage mechanism, aka batteries.

You will still need your local electric company!

The fact is that the gas in not that expensive. However, the amount of infrastructure necessary to get it to your house is where it tends to add up. Think of it as a deal when compared to a cup of coffee.

LOL, Saltheart - look at your cell phone bill closely and see how they nickle and dime you to death! I HATE VERIZON.

My Dad looked into getting solar about 30 yrs back and he was told because of our area, it was too cloudy for it to be cost effective?! :( May be the technology has chanced, things are more efficient and so forth, but the Feds cut the grant $$ that USE to pay for a percentage of it AND it takes a long time to re-cooperate the upfront costs.

Even if I cut down all my trees (just ONE left on the back - all the others have died on their own or the storms have knocked them over in the past 20+ yrs), I have my neighbors trees that block the path of the sun!

If I was in a spot that was open and sunny, I would be all over solar energy OR even wind energy. :)

they have to add smell to the odorless gas
in case of a leak it has to be "noticed"
something that's odorless can't be "noticed" otherwise

that "may" be the "enhancement" process

What the eff does this have to do with the price of gas? I know you're out there, but do you ever read the intitial post or do you just drop a bunch of tabs of acid and start typing?

It's no wonder this site has so few new contributing members.

What the eff does this have to do with the price of gas? I know you're out there, but do you ever read the intitial post or do you just drop a bunch of tabs of acid and start typing?

It's no wonder this site has so few new contributing members.

He's talking about the enhancement charge of on my list (83 cents a month).

Of my $26.06 bill , only $6.25 can be affected by my use. I look at things like standing pilots on my older furnace and my fairly new water heater and I think maybe if I bought units with igniters it would save gas and thus money but in fact with only a $6.25 pie to slice up , maybe I could save $2 if I get rid of the pilots. Now at $2 potential monthly savings , my payback period for any equipment investment goes into the next century. So there is no option there worth pursuing. It seems like there is nothing to do about the gas except in the high demand months where usage becomes a bigger percentage of the bill vs delivery charges.

Now the electric is even worse. I already use all compact fluorescent bulbs and turn off everything non essential. I seldom leave a room without turning off a light. I do have 2 refrigerators but that seems to be the only area I could save any money by reducing demand. I think (just looking at check register ) my total electric bill is about $700 per year. Now take away the uncontrollable $33.69 per month (delivery charge) ($404) , that leaves roughly $300 in usage charges I may be able to reduce. Again , a $300 pie is not much to slice up. Lets say by some miracle I save 40% (impossible without sweating out the 99 degree days but just a number for reference) I can save $120 a year or $10 a month. How much does $10 a month justify in higher efficiency equipment or sitting in the dark or doing away with my extra refrigerator? So really there is nothing to do once you take the initial steps like new bulbs and turning down your thermostat.

So when you decide to figure out how much you can save in energy costs by investing in new equipment or conserving by doing without lights and heat , remember the pie is less than 50% what you think it is for electric and as low as 20% what you think it is most months for natural gas.

LOL, Saltheart - look at your cell phone bill closely and see how they nickle and dime you to death! I HATE VERIZON.

My Dad looked into getting solar about 30 yrs back and he was told because of our area, it was too cloudy for it to be cost effective?! :( May be the technology has chanced, things are more efficient and so forth, but the Feds cut the grant $$ that USE to pay for a percentage of it AND it takes a long time to re-cooperate the upfront costs.

Even if I cut down all my trees (just ONE left on the back - all the others have died on their own or the storms have knocked them over in the past 20+ yrs), I have my neighbors trees that block the path of the sun!

If I was in a spot that was open and sunny, I would be all over solar energy OR even wind energy. :)

The cell phone thing is a very interesting story. I solved my phone bill issues a long time ago. First , I got a Magic Jack and that dropped my "land line" from about $400 a year (plus LD charges) to $19.95 a year. Then I dumped Verizon and got a prepaid yearly deal with Tracfone through HSN. That cost me $99 a year and I never did buy any more minutes so it actually was $99 a year. Now this year because I have extra minutes from last year to carry over , my yearly cell phone costs should be $59 for the whole year and that includes a new phone with big buttons for us older blurred vision types. How the heck they give me a years service for $59 is beyond me but that's what it costs and it works as well as Verizon after the first few days of 5 hour set up torture with the Indian customer service people.

The cell phone thing was one of the first cost reduction efforts I made after retiring. In hind site I should have done it 15 years ago because the savings are big , the investment is almost zero and the quality of the service is the same for what I do with it.

As far as solar goes , I get vitually no morning sun do to trees so close. I do get afternoon sun but as was pointed out , in New England the angle and the length of days do not provide a big opportunity for pay back of even the maintenance charges. Between the snow , leaves , short days and no morning sun , not much opportunity for solar for me.

Now I already drive a Nissan Altima Hybrid (great great car..I love it) but my next car will be CNG or LNG because I thing in about 4 to 5 years when I'll need one , the LNG fueling stations will have become a common thing in the USA. I traveled the world extensively when I worked and LNG is on everywhere in Korea and quite common in Mexico. I also think that when we start wholesale conversion of cars to the use of gas drilled from good old USA soil that the money we now send to the middle east much of which is used to fund terrorism, will dry up and that will become a much smaller threat.

Thank you for listening to my dissertations on energy usage frustration with my providers and my hopes for the future success of LNG technology in cars. :)

i also switched to magic Jack and find it preferable to list that
inaccessible number on all forms instead of giving out my cell number

if a message comes thru it'll generate an email and then i'll check it out
download the .WAV file and play it on WINAMP

that takes very little time....like a few seconds.....

i like TESLA cars but thus far they are too expensive still
like $100 k for the electric car that can go 300 miles before needing a re-charge... hopefully that will all change in the coming years.

solar energy is changing at an ALARMING rate.... of improvement
one example is the technology where the photocells can receive
rays of light from virtually any angle...

that and the materials keep improving (advancing) so that the transmission keeps going up up and UP with discoveries like graphene
which has super unimaginable electrical properties that are better than even pure gold and silver for electrical transmission.

What the eff does this have to do with the price of gas? I know you're out there, but do you ever read the intitial post or do you just drop a bunch of tabs of acid and start typing?

It's no wonder this site has so few new contributing members.

i read the post and was confusing enhancement and took a wild guess
speculating that a charge was generated for that
when it means something entirely different
being :point: Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program (LIHEAP

personally
i think it's incredibly stupid to take the richest source of manure
which is from human beings and NOT 100% turn it back into fuel
in the form of methane gas....
so , take a population of people at 300 million (usa) all making 150 million tons a day craps
and at the end of a weeks time it sure adds up.... as a fuel source.
cow manure could be doing the exact same thing... as there are huge mountains made of it.
i'm in the Boone Picken's camp

It is highly unlikely anyone in NE can put up a solar panel field on their roof large enough to supply 100% of their needs. Things like, clouds, snow cover on panels, short winter days, and night also tend to lower output. All this talk of putting up panels doesn't include any storage mechanism, aka batteries.

You will still need your local electric company!

There's a guy near me with a grid tie system that routinely produces more electricity than he uses. I buy his extra with a gift card from my business. It's usually between $25-$50. I'm sure he lives very spartanly.