ATLANTIC STRIPED BASS ASSESSMENT SUMMARY FOR 2013
State of the Stock:
In 2012, the Atlantic striped bass stock was not overfished or experiencing overfishing
relative to the new reference points from the 2013 SAW/SARC57 (Figure B1-B3). Female
spawning stock biomass (SSB) was estimated at 61.5 thousand mt (136 million lbs), above the
SSB threshold of 57,904 mt, but below the SSB target of 72,380 mt. Total fishing mortality was
estimated at 0.188, below the F threshold of 0.213 but above the F target of 0.175.
When compared to the biological reference points currently used in management (ASMFC
2008), the stock is neither overfished nor experiencing overfishing. Female SSB in 2012 is above
both the target (46,101 mt) and the threshold (36,000 mt), and F2012 is below both the target
(0.30) and the threshold (0.34).

The entire report is available at: http://nefsc.noaa.gov/publications/crd/crd1314/partb.pdf

So I guess this means we are good to go and can expect the next new mark will be 4 a day 16" minimum!:fury::fury::fury:

If you believe this then I have some great Jersey shore property that I could sell you cheap. Undamaged by Sandy.

Fisheries use of estimation numbers we know from past estimations is akin to a wild guess.

Cod anyone ?
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The stock may be adequate, the quality of the fishery is not.

That is because quality is not something of concern when the management agenda is for maximum sustainable yield.

Given our numbers, northeast recreational fishermen deserve one species managed for the quality of the fishery, rather than yield. That is the best argument for gamefish status.

Appears to be good news if true ....no?
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I have never really followed/ read / or understood the science and the data put together in these reports. I tend to base my assumptions on personal findings and those of fishermen as opposed to scientists.
That being said, i am perplexed
Not more than 15 mins before they announced they were reopening the commercial bass season, i was on the phone with a good friend of mine that is heavily involved in the stock assessment here in mass. They said that based upon their findings the stocks here in mass are scarily near collapse. Based upon their findings which they base on their test catches and licensed dealer landing reports. They said that other than the school off of chatham and a school in the bay, there is little to be found. The schools they usually have out on stellwagon were not there. The north shore was dismal. Buzzards bay/ islands were barren wastelands. They concluded that at the current rate and statua they estimate the sustainability of the stocks at maybe a year.
As for our shop down here we normally have 60k to 100k lbs of bass come in. This year 4 thousand lbs for the whole season. And a lot of those fish were sore covered
True reasonings for this and what it indicates i am not sure but it cant be good
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the seals are doing an Irish Jig :jump1:

The stock may be adequate, the quality of the fishery is not.

That is because quality is not something of concern when the management agenda is for maximum sustainable yield.

Given our numbers, northeast recreational fishermen deserve one species managed for the quality of the fishery, rather than yield. That is the best argument for gamefish status.

You would need to change Federal law to that. Eliminating the commercial fishery would have effect on management targets.

numbskull,not sure what you mean by ''quality fishing'',but if you mean size,i would have to say the average recreational fisherman gives a rats ass about size.

You would need to change Federal law to that. Eliminating the commercial fishery would have effect on management targets.

No you don't. The fishery would still be managed by ASMFC, the meaning of maximum sustainable yield would no longer have an economic connotation, instead it would have a quality context.......that the fishery yield maintain maximum quality for recreational use instead of economic value.

numbskull,not sure what you mean by ''quality fishing'',but if you mean size,i would have to say the average recreational fisherman gives a rats ass about size.

By "quality" I mean fishery that is managed so the fish are available throughout their historic range in reasonable abundance and natural size distribution.

We are no where close to that presently. The large YOY class 2 years ago makes the population numbers work so that management can claim the species is not over fished.

"Not over fished" is a hell of a long way aways from a healthy fishery.
A healthy fishery is what we want, not a maximally exploited one, even if that exploitation is "sustainable".

You know all BS aside gamefish/commercial etc. The managers manage based on yield it is not in their interest to make sure there is a multitude of fish available. Just enough to re produce and feed the people etc.

The thing that bothers me is why can they not reduce the coastal quota by 10% every year for five years. Leave it up to the states on how to distribute the catch. Maintain commercial quota, reduce recreational to 1 a day however it works the best for the state. Then raise the SSB thresh hold by 10 annually for three years. Once the stock gets to a point say 30% greater than what it is now. Then try what ever you want. But why can't the bar just be raised
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There will be another moratorium within 10 years. if I were betting, the number would be six. Ssb was around 15 percent below target, as usual. and that is based on their crappy data.
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less than 6 IMO :smash:

There will be another moratorium within 10 years. if I were betting, the number would be six. Ssb was around 15 percent below target, as usual. and that is based on their crappy data.
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Reaction to a situation rarely leads to success in anything. No business or individual ever had success sitting around waiting for opportunity to fall
In its lap. I don't know why we accept this from fisheries managers etc. It is the management plan currently but why don't we as fisherman have the ability to change the situation. There should be enough for everyone. Commercial recreational etc. If they shift the SSB numbers gradually upwards and stay hard with the numbers. There will be plenty for everyone. Rather than allowing it to go to the toilet and then acting.
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No you don't. The fishery would still be managed by ASMFC, the meaning of maximum sustainable yield would no longer have an economic connotation, instead it would have a quality context.......that the fishery yield maintain maximum quality for recreational use instead of economic value.

There is no "economic connotation" to MSY, MSY is based on the numbers of fish, not their value. Actually the term as contained in the Act is "optimum yield" which NOAA has defined as MSY.

You know all BS aside gamefish/commercial etc. The managers manage based on yield it is not in their interest to make sure there is a multitude of fish available. Just enough to re produce and feed the people etc.

The thing that bothers me is why can they not reduce the coastal quota by 10% every year for five years. Leave it up to the states on how to distribute the catch. Maintain commercial quota, reduce recreational to 1 a day however it works the best for the state. Then raise the SSB thresh hold by 10 annually for three years. Once the stock gets to a point say 30% greater than what it is now. Then try what ever you want. But why can't the bar just be raised
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They can't do that because that would raise the SSB above what is necessary to achieve MSY, by law they are required to manage the stock to MSY.

There is no "economic connotation" to MSY, MSY is based on the numbers of fish, not their value. Actually the term as contained in the Act is "optimum yield" which NOAA has defined as MSY.

Bull, and you know it. As long as a fish has commercial use, "maximum sustainable yield" implies optimizing that use. Indeed the act that created the ASMFC mandates such full stock exploitation.

Which again is the strongest argument to make Striped Bass a game fish.

They can't do that because that would raise the SSB above what is necessary to achieve MSY, by law they are required to manage the stock to MSY.

I completely understand the law dictates MSY what I am getting at is if the SSB threshold is the management tool as opposed to what humans can take from the fishery the fishery would be better for all use groups. If we consistently manage based on what we can utilize or take there is real potential for an outside force to create epic collapse. For example in the sixties and seventies managers could not figure on how PCB's would effect spawn cycles. It took a lure make from Attleboro and a handful of biologists and fishermen to bring that to light.

Maybe the law is to manage the fishery to MSY I think we are learning in general we need to start looking at what we have in reserve. As opposed to what we can take and use.

If we continue to manage based on yield and spawning triggers we have the real potential to get to an overfished point with weak year classes pushing us straight back to moratorium.

I realize this is all fantasy land. But maybe the laws should be changed to protect the biomass benchmark as opposed to protecting the yield.
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The managers have created paper fish--fish that exist only on paper. Stock assessment work is full of uncertainty. The commonsense rule--of what people see on the water--is impossible to quantify--and our present fishery management system is totally dependent on data, dependent to the point that science cannot fulfill it--because of $$$$. Who is going to pay for state and federal surveys, good surveys? And using landings and discards to come up with stock estimates seems tricky at best.

The paper fish thing happened a few years ago with codfish and back in 2004 with mackerel. Huge overestimates of stock abundance. Fish weren't there. The mackerel estimates were so big it brought over from Alaska a few of the pair trawlers. What tiny schools of mackerel those guys did find they annihilated and then quickly shifted to sea herring.

I'm glad my job isn't to come up with a single number that tells the fishing communities how many fish swim in the sea. But what is the alternative? We need the number. Not easy. It's a fu*cking labyrinth.

Temporary MPA's are the only solution that will yield total recovery of a complete top to bottom ecosystem
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Woops. Thought this was another thread.
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Mpa's work on ground fish.

I saw the writing on the wall back in '05-'07. How many times can you get skunked without coming to the conclusion that there are not as many fish around? Yes bait patterns change. I too think a moratorium is coming our way and I can't understand why the limit of 2 @28" can't be reduce to one at "36, or something... Why wait till its a serious problem?
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I have spoken to fish counting scientists at the DMF...and asked them why were there so many more stripers around years ago and far fewer today...

Not a direct quote but I am summarizing: "That is because there were too many fish around before...there are enough around now"

I asked:
how do know there are enough around:
We have a good handle on the numbers and size of fish in the population.

I then asked...

what if you are wrong? You said the same thing about codfish stocks and now you admit you were wrong about that. wouldn't it be prudent to be more conservative with your estimation? What is your confidence in these numbers?

silence... then canned BS response about they feel good and can sleep at night. I told him I am glad someone sleeps well cause I sure as hell don't.

I have ZERO confidence in the people managing fishery resources. Technically I am sure they are brilliant people in the ranks but there are too many bureaucratic holes that allow public opinion to morph the final regulations making them meaningless.

Mpa's work on ground fish.

I saw the writing on the wall back in '05-'07. How many times can you get skunked without coming to the conclusion that there are not as many fish around? Yes bait patterns change. I too think a moratorium is coming our way and I can't understand why the limit of 2 @28" can't be reduce to one at "36, or something... Why wait till its a serious problem?
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Because like Mike said it is managed to MSY. States could alter how they manage their portion of the yield via 1@36 recreationally but odds are under the current plan if they do that recreationally they will add to commercial quota. Resulting in a net zero fish saved for future.

It is pretty telling though that in MA they re opened the fishery twice and did not fill the quota when in recent years they have always exceeded the quota.
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Because like Mike said it is managed to MSY. States could alter how they manage their portion of the yield via 1@36 recreationally but odds are under the current plan if they do that recreationally they will add to commercial quota. Resulting in a net zero fish saved for future.

It is pretty telling though that in MA they re opened the fishery twice and did not fill the quota when in recent years they have always exceeded the quota.
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Not quite true. There are two Catch quotas (ACL), one for recreational and one for commercial, and in states where there is a commercial fishery one doesn't affect the other. In NY, where there is a commercial fishery the rule for recreational anglers not fishing on a charter/party boat is one fish over 28 inches and one fish over 40 inches. I believe that in Maine there is a slot limit and its not 2 at 28. So states can elect to be more conservative than 2 @ 28 without increasing the commercial limit, in that state. Of course if the population eventually grows the TAL for both recreational and commercial fisheries will eventually be increased.

Bull, and you know it. As long as a fish has commercial use, "maximum sustainable yield" implies optimizing that use. Indeed the act that created the ASMFC mandates such full stock exploitation.

Which again is the strongest argument to make Striped Bass a game fish.

What can I say, except that you are totally wrong? SSBs, ACLs, F, et al are set in numbers of fish or pounds of fish, no dollar or economic value is considered or implied. If striped bass were a game fish up and down the coast, nothing would change unless the lkaw was changed, they would still be managed to produce MSY.

I have ZERO confidence in the people managing fishery resources. Technically I am sure they are brilliant people in the ranks but there are too many bureaucratic holes that allow public opinion to morph the final regulations making them meaningless.

Prior to amendment 6, action would have been taken years ago based on a bad yoy index. Now six out of seven years of lousy yoy lead to no change because of one good year. I get so fired up at the idiots who make these rules and by the same token I wanna say fu to the guys who think it we shouldn't say anything about idiots who repeatedly kill tons of big fish in order to show their buddies in order to overcome other feelings of inadequacy. I don't care if the law says they can. The lawmakers and idiots are fing up something very important to me.

What can I say, except that you are totally wrong? SSBs, ACLs, F, et al are set in numbers of fish or pounds of fish, no dollar or economic value is considered or implied. If striped bass were a game fish up and down the coast, nothing would change unless the lkaw was changed, they would still be managed to produce MSY.

Duh.

As long as the fishery is manipulated for maximum yield....as it will be when commercial interests are involved....the quality of fishing will suffer.

Obviously if recreational fishermen kill equivalent numbers of fish there is no difference. But that is not what happens. Once a fishery loses economic value it is managed for recreational quality rather than maximum yield and the pressure to kill and keep fish diminishes as does the pressure on the fishery scientists to keep justifying such kill for the economic well being of a small subset of resource users.

striped bass were the one big success story in fisheries management history... and now its gone down the toilet. they have gone from abundance to scarcity it 10 years. it'll take another10 years at least to get back to anything even close to what it was in 2001 (insert yer favorite season......)

Duh.

As long as the fishery is manipulated for maximum yield....as it will be when commercial interests are involved....the quality of fishing will suffer.

Obviously if recreational fishermen kill equivalent numbers of fish there is no difference. But that is not what happens. Once a fishery loses economic value it is managed for recreational quality rather than maximum yield and the pressure to kill and keep fish diminishes as does the pressure on the fishery scientists to keep justifying such kill for the economic well being of a small subset of resource users.

Numbskull is right , but the ones in charge don't want to hear that.

Striped bass are in trouble, no question about it
keep whackin and stackin and there will continue to be few fish around to have any chance at catching a decent bass

Duh.

Once a fishery loses economic value it is managed for recreational quality rather than maximum yield and the pressure to kill and keep fish diminishes as does the pressure on the fishery scientists to keep justifying such kill for the economic well being of a small subset of resource users.

Once again totally wrong, all fisheries, by law, must be managed for MSY.

I ain't buying there crap 2 poor seasons in a row for me , i'm no sharpie but I put in the time

Once again totally wrong, all fisheries, by law, must be managed for MSY.

You are hiding behind the ASMFC mandate.
You are hiding behind a commercial concept of maximum "yield" which implies dead fish.

What is the maximum sustainable yield that ensures a quality fishery?
Why are we not fishing to that number?
That number exists just as certainly as the one that is used for a fishery managed for maximum sustainable kill. The numbers are not the same. Someone makes a decision which number to use. That someone is heavily influenced by commercial pressure.

To fix it all we need is an amendment making striped bass a gamefish and stipulating they be fished to a maximum yield that sustains a quality fishery rather than a bare minimum surviving population as we do now.

It is not rocket science, you know it as well as I, which is exactly why you keep obfuscating the issue.

You are hiding behind the ASMFC mandate.
You are hiding behind a commercial concept of maximum "yield" which implies dead fish.

What is the maximum sustainable yield that ensures a quality fishery?
Why are we not fishing to that number?
That number exists just as certainly as the one that is used for a fishery managed for maximum sustainable kill. The numbers are not the same. Someone makes a decision which number to use. That someone is heavily influenced by commercial pressure.

To fix it all we need is an amendment making striped bass a gamefish and stipulating they be fished to a maximum yield that sustains a quality fishery rather than a bare minimum surviving population as we do now.

It is not rocket science, you know it as well as I, which is exactly why you keep obfuscating the issue.

I'm not hiding behind anything personally I don't give a crap. But the MSA requires all fisheries be managed for MSY. You otoh seem to misunderstand what the law requires.

Obfuscate , what a cool word , talk about bringing out the hammer !
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If we can not maintain the SSB target threshold maybe the MSY needs to be altered to reflect maintaining the target.
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This thread is worst than any of my urban dictionary posts. Delete or move to the political forum. This thread happens every year. It's older than Eve's TIIIT'S.
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This thread is worst than any of my urban dictionary posts. Delete or move to the political forum. This thread happens every year. It's older than Eve's TIIIT'S.
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Sad but true. It shouldn't have to be a conversation.
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I'll refrain a little as I was only joking. But I think its a dead horse that belongs in the political forum
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WPM, you're right. It happens every year and we get no where. I am resolved to the fact that I will see the second moratorium of my life time for stripers. It is inevitable with the level of slaughter that is going on. I am not blaming anyone as the recs are as guilty as the comms with over harvesting what should be a game fish. But this IS a dead horse.:deadhorse:

It's not a dead horse. It's a horse you go out into a field every night and try to beat with a stick, but its never there. There used to be lots of horses in the field though.. ;)
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and some feilds that never had horses have more horses than ever.if the horses were distributed over all the feilds like years ago i would bet the number of horses has gone down slightly since there all time high some years back.not saying that measures shouldn't be taken to insure that there are horses in the future,but there are quite a few cowboys who speak out both sides of their mouths

and some feilds that never had horses have more horses than ever.if the horses were distributed over all the feilds like years ago i would bet the number of horses has gone down slightly since there all time high some years back.not saying that measures shouldn't be taken to insure that there are horses in the future,but there are quite a few cowboys who speak out both sides of their mouths

Most of the time I talk out of my a&$. 😉
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...............but there are quite a few cowboys who speak out both sides of their mouths

And quite a few money loving ranchers with their heads in a hole and pleased with the view.

in my young and inexperienced opinion, this is EXACTLY the type of thread that belongs here. I thought the main forum was for just these types of conversations. Does it involve politics? Yes, but anything that is organized will always have politics at play. The issue, at least as it seems to me, is that no matter what side you're on, the bass are "property" of people. The fisheries management, the recs, the state, the fed....everyone THINKS they know the best way to manage the stock. If people looked towards the future without regard to their own interest, I have a feeling that there wouldn't need to be these discussions. But, as we're talking about humans, there will always be people who are in it just for themselves. Maybe someday I will win the powerball, then lobby for a senior level fisheries management position so I could change from the inside out!

lets not forget the wealthy egotistical ranchers who have their noses so far up in the air they can't see whats in front of them.

lets not forget the wealthy egotistical ranchers who have their noses so far up in the air they can't see whats in front of them.

You're wrong there, my smug vituperative friend.

My nose is in the air because I wear bifocals and that is the only way I can see what is left the pathetic striped bass population you are so eager to accept is healthy.

Yes, yes, I understand, there are plenty of striped bass...... it is just that they all live over the horizon now so lets just keep killing all the ones we can still reach and things will be fine. After all, the only good bass is a dead bass.

Alas, although you don't seem to realize it, you are right. There are plenty of striped bass if the 2011 YOY is correct. Soon we will be crawling in 16" fish again. And in 10-15 years they will even be worth catching. So in the meantime any remaining fish are expendable and under the law, as MakoMike so gleefully trumpets, they should be killed.

True, that will leave nothing but small fish to catch, but so what? With the help of fishery managers the commercial size limit can always be adjusted downward to take advantage of the bonanza of small fish and business can go on without any threat to sustainability.

What's not to like? Other than me, of course. ;)

You're wrong there, my smug vituperative friend.

My nose is in the air because I wear bifocals and that is the only way I can see what is left the pathetic striped bass population you are so eager to accept is healthy.

Yes, yes, I understand, there are plenty of striped bass...... it is just that they all live over the horizon now so lets just keep killing all the ones we can still reach and things will be fine. After all, the only good bass is a dead bass.

Alas, although you don't seem to realize it, you are right. There are plenty of striped bass if the 2011 YOY is correct. Soon we will be crawling in 16" fish again. And in 10-15 years they will even be worth catching. So in the meantime any remaining fish are expendable and under the law, as MakoMike so gleefully trumpets, they should be killed.

True, that will leave nothing but small fish to catch, but so what? With the help of fishery managers the commercial size limit can always be adjusted downward to take advantage of the bonanza of small fish and business can go on without any threat to sustainability.

What's not to like? Other than me, of course. ;)

Thank you for writing what many are thinking...

So in the meantime any remaining fish are expendable and under the law, as MakoMike so gleefully trumpets, they should be killed.


If you don't like the law work to change it, don't blame me for it. MSA is up for renewal next year, so here is your chance.

If you don't like the law work to change it, don't blame me for it. MSA is up for renewal next year, so here is your chance.

I don't blame you for it, Mike. It is just that your posts help highlight the problem, namely using the law as an excuse to continue hammering a fishery that is badly damaged (even if it is still sustainable).

I don't blame you for it, Mike. It is just that your posts help highlight the problem, namely using the law as an excuse to continue hammering a fishery that is badly damaged (even if it is still sustainable).

You still don't get it, its not an "excuse" its what the managers are required to do.

Anyone with eyes who has fished the last decade or so knows the truth. We don't need any convoluted BS slingers telling us what's happening here. Take the $ bounty off their heads and get back to 1 @36" and presto change we will once again have a world class fishery.

Anyone with eyes who has fished the last decade or so knows the truth. We don't need any convoluted BS slingers telling us what's happening here. Take the $ bounty off their heads and get back to 1 @36" and presto change we will once again have a world class fishery.

"Convoluted BS slingers"? It would be illegal to do what you are suggesting.

MMike- if the next YOY assessment is low, will that trigger the reductions?
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"Convoluted BS slingers"? It would be illegal to do what you are suggesting.

what did i suggest that's illegal??????? as far gov't biologists go i've had them tell me to my face that their #'s could be off by as much as 50%. and why do so many long time fishermen see what i see? denial- it ain;t just a river in egypt.

Tragedy of the commons.

It's not a dead horse. It's a horse you go out into a field every night and try to beat with a stick, but its never there. There used to be lots of horses in the field though.. ;)
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:rotf2:

A healthy fishery is what we want, not a maximally exploited one, even if that exploitation is "sustainable".

I think this sums it up best. Unfortunately, Mike is right, the managers' hands are tied due to federal law.

Apparently, according to Mike, MSA is "up"? next year, so I guess now is the chance to make a change.

Changing to gamefish status, or 1@36" are all great mantras for Striped Bass regulation, but striped bass are just a very small piece of a gigantic confusing puzzle which is managed by MSA, and MSA won't allow for anything except taking MSY.

The way we assess & manage fisheries needs to drastically change, and it sounds like the chance to do this is with the re-visiting of the MSA next year.

The first question is, what is the new management scheme that is better than what they do now?

Once I heard that the lobsterman of southern New England and Long Island sound were blaming the lobster crash on striped bass I knew bass would never be fully protected. Bass are like zack said.. A single piece in the puzzle.
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Kinda think bass would prefer bunker....if there were any left around.
We all know lobster sucks without a pound of melted butter to drown it in.
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Obfuscate , what a cool word , talk about bringing out the hammer !
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LOL. He never uses that type of language when we fish. Guess I am going to have to start using some 5 and 6 letter words instead of my usual 4 letter ones when we fish. I must be boring him to tears.

LOL. He never uses that type of language when we fish. Guess I am going to have to start using some 5 and 6 letter words instead of my usual 4 letter ones when we fish. I must be boring him to tears.

Lol or hyphenate and combine the four letter ones
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And then pulls out vituperative.......Fn way to go !
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This diagram pretty much shows what most of us are experiencing. The rec. catch is half of what it was from the top of the mountain from about 2000-2008. It clearly isn't lower because people decided to release more fish. Half the reward for the same effort. Twice the effort doesn't even get you to what you had for those years. So now we have half of what we have yet slaughter pretty much at will. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if 2013 is at 1994 levels. Couple more years we should be back at 1992 levels. Only benefit of that is that maybe the circus will go away for a decade or so.

There is no "economic connotation" to MSY, MSY is based on the numbers of fish, not their value. Actually the term as contained in the Act is "optimum yield" which NOAA has defined as MSY.


Just to clarify here.

MSY is measured in pounds not numbers of fish

OY absolutely includes financial data as well as stock data

MMike- if the next YOY assessment is low, will that trigger the reductions?
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Maybe. The key number is the SSB, but the YOY index does affect the estimate of the SSB. But since the YOY don't recruit into the SSB for 5-6 years old, it may not have much of an effect.

what did i suggest that's illegal??????? as far gov't biologists go i've had them tell me to my face that their #'s could be off by as much as 50%. and why do so many long time fishermen see what i see? denial- it ain;t just a river in egypt.

You suggested 1) making them a gamefish and 2) raising the retention limit to 1 @ 36. Both of those actions would be illegal for the ASMFC, which is the managing authority for striped bass.

You suggested 1) making them a gamefish and 2) raising the retention limit to 1 @ 36. Both of those actions would be illegal for the ASMFC, which is the managing authority for striped bass.

Could you point out which law ASMFC would break if it decided through amendment to change the status of sb and the limit? My understanding of the law is that ASMFC is given the authority to make those amendments. I am pretty sure what you are saying is tantamount to saying that congress would break a law by changing the law. I could be wrong...

You are hiding behind the ASMFC mandate.
stipulating they be fished to a maximum yield that sustains a quality fishery rather than a bare minimum surviving population as we do now.

.

IMO- this is where the problem lies with the MSA-they're trying to manage a fishery in a fashion just so it doesn't collapse again.

theres no thought about quality, next years catch, the possibilty for errors, etc. they're treating the fish like pork bellies, or any other commodity. its not something that is worth saving- it has "worth" when you kill it

Could you point out which law ASMFC would break if it decided through amendment to change the status of sb and the limit? My understanding of the law is that ASMFC is given the authority to make those amendments. I am pretty sure what you are saying is tantamount to saying that congress would break a law by changing the law. I could be wrong...

They would be violating the Magnesson-Stevens act.

Change to 1@36 would be easily legally defended based on MSA, although it might require another amendment by ASMFC. ASMFC reports that overfishing is likely to occur in the near future. They could use yoy and the trend in catch rates to defend its legality as a preventive measure in response to predicted overfishing or just reverse amendment 6.

Change to 1@36 would be easily legally defended based on MSA, although it might require another amendment by ASMFC. ASMFC reports that overfishing is likely to occur in the near future. They could use yoy and the trend in catch rates to defend its legality as a preventive measure in response to predicted overfishing or just reverse amendment 6.

I doubt it, but it would depend on what F factor 1 @ 36 would yield. I strongly suspect that the F factor (mortality rate) would be far less than what is required to prevent "overfishing" in the future.

If they determine that overfishing is a factor...they should all lose their jobs and I think the RFA should pursue criminal charges. Overfishing is should never occur if it is managed properly IMO.


This is OT but a little related:

What are the laws governing dragging in sounds? I am seeing more and more small draggers working in some cases with mile off the beach in both ACK and V sound! I have been taking photos of these boats, I pass them every day. How is it we allow draggins in sounds? These guys should be out of site of land. The quoata is not an excuse to deplete out sound of fish. sounds bays and estuaries should be nurseries for fish and protected from commercial fishing.

FWIW, I hear vis the rumor mill that the ASMFC intends to take some action soon to prevent overfishing in 2014.

FWIW, I hear vis the rumor mill that the ASMFC intends to take some action soon to prevent overfishing in 2014.

Make it illegal to posses bass from Nauset inlet to the Nantucket sound entrance make the canal a catch and release river lol.
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Those of us who fished the outer cape this year can tell you that any data that doesn't show overall catch plummeting to early 1990s levels is absolute crap. There were flat out no bass this year out there...none.

... make the canal a catch and release river lol.
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I am pretty sure canal rules state if you catch it, you kill.

Blitzseeker, post like yours really make me laugh.i fished the beaches of the outer cape,ptown and truro from early june till early sept this season and i caught quite a few bass.granted i fish 7 nights a week work in a tackle shop and have all the info needed to find fish,but even many of the shops customers who rarely fish caught fish this spring.it was actually one of the better springs in the last few years.unfortunatly very few people were on the beach when the fish were there.mid july till early sept was pretty dead,but if you put the effort in there were some fish around at night.

Blitzseeker, post like yours really make me laugh.i fished the beaches of the outer cape,ptown and truro from early june till early sept this season and i caught quite a few bass.granted i fish 7 nights a week work in a tackle shop and have all the info needed to find fish,but even many of the shops customers who rarely fish caught fish this spring.it was actually one of the better springs in the last few years.unfortunatly very few people were on the beach when the fish were there.mid july till early sept was pretty dead,but if you put the effort in there were some fish around at night.

This post kills me. This is the same arguments that were givin before the moratorium in the 80's. The guys who fished non stop who were either pin hookers, poachers or charter captains ( anyone making money off of bass legit or not) screamed up and down that there were still some fish around.. You just had to work really hard for them. The fact is that they made money off of these fish and didn't want to loose their income.

Bob pond would be disappointed in you.
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Now all we need is cow hunter to pop in here and say everything is just fine. Where has he been anyway?
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Nebe,nowhere do i say things are fine,do i profit from bass yes,i sell a few fish ,sell some plugs and work in a tackle shop.to say that there is absolutly no fish in an area that i fish in is total bs.if he said there are no fishermen i would agree.as far as Cowhunter goes he is probably busy catching all the fish that aren't there.if things are as bad as every one on this site says,maybe it is time to stop fishing altogether,you fish you kill no matter how careful you are.

So many striped bass these days you don't even need waders anymore.
You just need to know where to look, that's all.

also no need for waders when your fishing is done on the keyboard

So many striped bass these days you don't even need waders anymore.
You just need to know where to look, that's all.

more like this:

Nebe,nowhere do i say things are fine,do i profit from bass yes,i sell a few fish ,sell some plugs and work in a tackle shop.to say that there is absolutly no fish in an area that i fish in is total bs.if he said there are no fishermen i would agree.as far as Cowhunter goes he is probably busy catching all the fish that aren't there.if things are as bad as every one on this site says,maybe it is time to stop fishing altogether,you fish you kill no matter how careful you are.

The guys back in the 80's didn't say things were fine either. I was there. I was on the docks in cuttyhunk then. I witnessed this first hand as a kid.

Do you think there is a problem? If not, that's fine. If you do, then look for solutions.
I haven't killed a bass in a few years. All are released.
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also no need for waders when your fishing is done on the keyboard

If you are talking about NS you would be way off.

I just don't get you guys who think the fishery is just fine.

Even if you consistently do well on the water, how can you ignore the experiences of all your surf casting peers?

The numbers of fish continue to decline year to year. It's truly sad.

I just don't get you guys who think the fishery is just fine.

Even if you consistently do well on the water, how can you ignore the experiences of all your surf casting peers?

The numbers of fish continue to decline year to year. It's truly sad.

If they looked at the 2012 ASMFC total catch graph, they would see the recreational catch is down 60% in 6 years. Depends on your definition of fine.

Based on my journal entries, I am seeing something different. :-(.

:rotf2::rotf2: LMFAO

its funny what passes for "good" fishing in the last year or two..... anytime somebody catches more than one er two fish, we think they had a good trip....

VT, I agree, I caught some fish in the spring too. But the simple fact is that from late July through the end of the year it was DEAD. The worst I have seen in 25 years of fishing the area. I'm sure there are people that still caught fish when I didn't. But the fact is that while I'm no sharpie, I know what I'm doing and consistently catch when there are fish around. There were lots of fishless trips the last two months. While fishing in any area over two months is anecdotal, I for one am very, very worried about the fishing.

Even if you consistently do well on the water, how can you ignore the experiences of all your surf casting peers?

This basically sums up how I feel.