View Full Version : Need some input with line choice advantages


DZ
10-22-2013, 07:41 AM
I've been asked to write an article about the advantages of using monofilament in surfcasting applications. As many of you know I'm pretty much "old school" when it comes to equipment and techniques used to chase striped bass. I've been a mono guy forever except for a "very" brief pause to try Whiplash braid in 1999 and using Invisi-Braid for the past two months so I could gain more practical experience with braid. I've listed some advantages and disadvantages of both. Feel free to add anything to the list that I might have missed. Thanks in advance for any input.


Super Braids (Advantages)
1. Increased sensitivity, solid hooksets, and superior casting distance when needed.
2. Braids offer another major advantage by having a very thin diameter/to strength ratio that allows for greater depth penetration when jigging deeper water/high flow areas such as canals/breachways. Smaller diameters allow for the use of lighter jig heads that would not be possible when using larger diameter monofilament lines.
3. Can last most of the season without changing.
4. Brute strength.


Super Braids (Disadvantages)
1. High cost
2. Wind knots impossible to untangle
3. Hook-up to land ratio: Dropped fish when allowed to go slack
4. Abrasion resistance is poor
5. No stretch destroys rod blanks
6. Very hard to break when you’re hung up.
7. Braid buries on spool when under extreme pressure sometimes causing line to cut itself.

Monofilament (Advantages)
1. Affordability
2. Shock absorbency – the ability for mono to stretch on high impact strikes offers insurance.
3. Abrasion resistance in boulder fields is a huge advantage for monofilament.
4. Ability to tie direct without leader when a subtle presentation is necessary.
5. More forgiving in overcoming mistakes. For example monofilament will stretch quite a bit if a drag is set too tight. This will allow a caster to back off the tension before the line breaks.
6. Improved hook-up to land ratio. I found that monofilament allows for a better hook-up/land ratio because the stretch in mono always seems to help keep a tight line when a bass is thrashing on the surface.

Monofilament (Disadvantages)
1. Less Sensitivity
2. Casting Distance
3. Stretch/elasticity
4. Hook sets
5. Diameter ratio for stronger lines
6. Brittle/stiff in cold temps
7. Must be changed often.

Nebe
10-22-2013, 07:46 AM
You can cast braid a lot further than mono
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Redsoxticket
10-22-2013, 07:53 AM
Braid cuts fingers
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Rob Rockcrawler
10-22-2013, 08:05 AM
Increase in straitened out hooks with braid.

JLH
10-22-2013, 08:23 AM
I find heavier braid 50+ pounds has more abrasion resistance than 20 pound mono. I've mainly been a braid user but did experiment with mono in areas where I was getting broken off by bigger fish and I found I was losing more fish to the rocks with the mono than I had with braid.
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Back Beach
10-22-2013, 08:42 AM
Braid is much more cost effective IMO. Given braid is capable of lasting several seasons if you reverse it, the cost of mono is much higher over the same time frame.

Say for example you respool with mono every 1-2 weeks during the course of a season to ensure the integrity of your line system. It will likely cost you double that of a braid system if you're fishing heavily.

Braid is maybe $40/ season and $20/ season for 2 seasons if you flip it.

Mono would have to be $15-20 per month if you're keeping up with it. Spool depletes quickly from cutting back and I find after 4-5 trips my 15-20# mono is toast and loses most of its strength.
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Nebe
10-22-2013, 08:46 AM
What are the environmental impacts o the two types of line? If braid was more biodegradable I'd use it.. Mono lasts for ever doesn't it?

Cuts and straightened hooks are a really big deal with braid
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Back Beach
10-22-2013, 08:52 AM
Increase in straitened out hooks with braid.

I think this has to do with the fact braid permits us to fish much higher tests without sacrificing spool depletion and casting distance.

If guys were fishing 40-60# mono and tight drags you'd likely experience the same hook failures.
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DZ
10-22-2013, 09:32 AM
All good stuff - keep it coming.

EricM
10-22-2013, 09:38 AM
You can leverage the diminished penetration of mono when fishing boulder fields - with higher test you can use it to "float" a jig a little bit more and reduce the chance of snagging.

ivanputski
10-22-2013, 09:47 AM
i stopped using mono about 8 years ago... I dont use mono for anything, ever,
except as leader material.

Braig casts farther, is more sensitive which is important for more reasons than just a solid hookset without stretch... i often times slowly drag and bump bottom and "walk" my offering over stucture especially at new spots to determine what the terrain is. braid helps detect and transmits every bump to your rod to be felt.

example: remember when you were a kid with 2 soup cans and a string to make a makeshift temephone? well the way I look at it is, braid is the equivalent of a tight line while talking (clear crisp transmission) and mono is like a slack line (audible, but mushy mumbling)

If breakoffs are a concern, as they are in most of the terrain I fish ( o rarely ever fish sandy beaches) i lengthen my leader (60# mono). My average leader length is 5-6 feet

Back Beach
10-22-2013, 09:50 AM
4. Ability to tie direct without leader when a subtle presentation is necessary.



This alone is reason enough to fish with a mono setup or have one handy. 14-17# mono tied direct used to produce a lot of fish for me when higher diameter lines weren't doing it.

5 1/4" rebels on 12-14# test mono tied direct produced a lot of fish on the cape, and likely still does.

MAKAI
10-22-2013, 10:24 AM
I still use mono soaking bait. The fish don't shake off as easily when you are not right next to the spike. Also eeling I like using S glass at times w braid. All the best qualities of braid yet the blanks shock absorption makes it feel like mono once hooked up.
All plugging is braid and lami. Though I may give the cts or century stuff a try next year.
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numbskull
10-22-2013, 11:37 AM
Mono would have to be $15-20 per month if you're keeping up with it. Spool depletes quickly from cutting back and I find after 4-5 trips my 15-20# mono is toast and loses most of its strength.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Those damn sunfish certainly take their toll.

Steve K
10-22-2013, 02:35 PM
Mono degrades in sunlight.

SeaWolf
10-22-2013, 03:44 PM
dennis, braid does not directly cause rod failure, anglers and manufacturers cause the failures we hear/read about. so many failures are blamed on the rod or braid or whatever, but it's almost always a case of high-sticking, overpowering the rod's ratings, fishing drags way too tight, or carelessness, which few own up to. yes, there are manufacturers that have had issues w/ a certain series or model due to pushed development or poorly designed guide trains. yes, occasionally a blem does come thru, but it's rare. however, braid has changed the rod blank industry in how they design blanks from lessons learned early on, such as ron arra series. also, guide selection has changed so that wind knots are lessened. i can fish weeks w/o a wind knot personally, but i build my own rods too. looking at a rod from the 80s, to a rod in the late 90s, to a rod today, it's amazing the changes, and most of that is what you can see. anglers that have fished mono didn't loosen their drag when they switched to braid; most increased drag pressure since they slipped easier when fighting fish. where does that pressure now go? ferrules, blanks, and reels. newer blanks have a lot of technology to now compensate for "braids" or mainly the new pressures put on them due to strain originally absorbed by mono. one advantage not talked about here yet is that braid essentially pushed blank design and rod design to make rods lighter and more enjoyable to fish!

i have found little advantage to fishing mono over braid. not needing gloves or a casting finger to cast would be one and possible easier to untangle if fishing around other anglers fishing braid, which is huge on a dark night, when the bite is on, and guys are trying to untangle instead of just cutting. basically, speed of untangling. i also noticed my knots were failing less on braid than when compared to mono.

Got Stripers
10-23-2013, 07:04 AM
You would have to kill me to get my braid, I've not fished mono in a decade, fishing light gear and plastic; braid sensitivity is not something I'd ever give up. After you get past the learning curve, the advantages so far outweight the disadvantages. Yes fishing around ledges can be frustrating with braid and rock not being too friendly, but a longer fluro leader can eliminate a lot of the premature breakoffs.

If I were a surfcaster, I might be singing a different tune, but as a boater; braid is king.

DZ
10-23-2013, 07:39 AM
More good stuff - thanks.

Seawolf - I didn't mean to say infer that braid "directly" causes rod breaks in all instances. I was just trying to corralate the fact that when mono was the primary line in use you very rarely saw blanks fail. In all my years I saw less than a handfull break while using mono - usually the caster was a fault. Blank failure started with the first use of braid in freshwater - when using it the bass pros were popping graphite blanks on the hookset - if they used mono those same rods held up nicely. Nowadays the new surf blanks pop with alarming regularity - in most every case braid was being used. Mono is definitly more forgiving when it comes to blanks breaking. Maybe rods failing is now just considered "the cost of doing business"?

SeaWolf
10-23-2013, 01:17 PM
i hear ya, dennis. well, a real true test would have to involve a lot of these newer rods built as COF or large NGC for mono. then, how are the blank failures? and, how many "wind knots" would be lessened if anglers used a rod properly designed for braid vs just a COF ceramic guide layout?
i'm willing to bet that 95%+ of anglers fishing the surf today, and the vast majority on these sites, are using braid. braid today is like mono in the early-mid 90s. i don't think you can write a small article on this subject, including the braid vs mono blank failures, and have all the information. in my opinion, if you take away manufacturers blank design flaws, manufacturer rod design flaws, blems, the majority of the breaks left would be due to angler negligence. i've build tuna popping rods for BFT where the powers and pressures were much larger than in surf fishing. the only failures i received were due to the angler.
it just has always bothered me when i hear/read a rod/blank being blamed when it eventually comes out that is was in fact due to the angler. there were countless ones on another site that started as a manufacturer bashing thread when it was due to the angler, but the damage to the manufacturer's reputation was already done since most didn't read all 13 pages. again, i'm removing rods/blanks w/ design flaws.
like i said, i don't see enough advantages to fish mono over braid in the surf.

tlapinski
10-23-2013, 02:35 PM
I added a few notes to your post below. As an aside, I use braid 99% of the time.

Super Braids (Disadvantages)
1. High cost – initially yes, long-term no
2. Wind knots impossible to untangle – practically non-existent when braid is used/spooled correctly
3. Hook-up to land ratio: Dropped fish when allowed to go slack – is this any different than what is experienced with mono?
4. Abrasion resistance is poor – only on some brands
5. No stretch destroys rod blanks - any proof of this?
6. Very hard to break when you’re hung up. - not nearly as difficult as 30-plus-pound mono IMO
7. Braid buries on spool when under extreme pressure sometimes causing line to cut itself. – again, only when used/spooled incorrectly

Monofilament (Advantages)
1. Affordability – initially but not on long term
2. Shock absorbency – the ability for mono to stretch on high impact strikes offers insurance.
3. Abrasion resistance in boulder fields is a huge advantage for monofilament. - adding a long leader greatly lessens this advantage
4. Ability to tie direct without leader when a subtle presentation is necessary. – only really an issue in very limited situations
5. More forgiving in overcoming mistakes. For example monofilament will stretch quite a bit if a drag is set too tight. This will allow a caster to back off the tension before the line breaks.
6. Improved hook-up to land ratio. I found that monofilament allows for a better hook-up/land ratio because the stretch in mono always seems to help keep a tight line when a bass is thrashing on the surface. – but what about poor hook-set of mono due to stretch? That kind of off-sets any in fight advantage IMO.

numbskull
10-23-2013, 04:53 PM
Another mono disadvantage is its diameter in cross wind. The line bows more and coupled with its stretch it becomes impossible to feel or control your plug.

And also there is the leader to line issue when using a shock/abrasion leader.
With mono any knot you tie is bulky and breaking at about 60-75% of line test. This is a weak spot since even if you use #20 mono you will break off at 12-15 lbs. That's not an issue with most fish but sure is when you snag bottom with a pricey plug.

With braid you can use this FG knot which is essentially the same diameter as the leader and tests at 100%. This makes it easy to tear plugs free from almost any hang and also lets you put full force to a fish if the situation requires. Unfortunately the stiffness difference between braid and the mono/fluoro leader still causes some issues on spinning rods (at least with the small guides I use).