Striped Bass Spawning Stock Biomass Continues to decline & ASMFC begins process to reduce fishing mortality and prevent overfishing in years to come. MSBA Govt Affairs Officer Patrick Paquette attended the recent ASMFC Striped Bass Management Board in GA and a full report will be given at the November MSBA Monthly Membership Meeting. Here is the ASMFC Press Release

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, OCTOBER 31, 2013
PRESS CONTACT, TINA BERGER, 703.842.0740

Atlantic Striped Bass Benchmark Assessment Finds Resource Not Overfished and Overfishing Not Occurring
Board Initiates Draft Addenda to Adopt New Reference Points
& Considers Management Measures to Address Declines in Spawning Stock Biomass

St. Simons Island, Georgia – The 2013 Atlantic striped bass benchmark assessment indicates the resource is not overfished or experiencing overfishing relative to the proposed new reference points defined in the assessment. Although the stock is not overfished, female spawning stock biomass (SSB) has continued to decline since 2004 and is estimated at 128 million pounds just above the SSB threshold of 127 million pounds, and below the SSB target of 159 million pounds. Additionally, total fishing mortality is estimated at 0.20, a value that is between the proposed new fishing mortality threshold (0.219) and fishing mortality target (0.18). The Atlantic Striped Bass Management Board approved the benchmark stock assessment for management use.

Projections of female SSB and fishing mortality suggest if the current fishing mortality rate (0.20) is maintained during 2013-2017, the probability of the stock being overfished (SSB less than the SSB threshold) is high and increases until 2015-2016, but declines thereafter. This trend is driven by the lack of strong year classes currently in the fishery, and the emergence of the strong 2011 year class that matures into the spawning stock in three to four years. Despite recent declines in SSB, the stock is still well above the SSB during the moratorium that was in place in the mid-1980s (see Figure 1).

Given these findings and the management plan’s triggers (e.g., both fishing mortality and SSB are between their respective target and threshold limits), the Management Board initiated the development of two draft addenda. The first addendum will propose adoption of the new fishing mortality reference points recommended by the benchmark assessment. These include fishing mortality reference points for the coastal stock as described above, as well as stock-specific reference points for the Chesapeake Bay and Albemarle/Roanoke stocks that will be developed by the Technical Committee. The second addendum will propose a range of commercial and recreational management measures for the coastal, Chesapeake Bay, and Albemarle/Roanoke stocks to reduce fishing mortality to at least the target with a proposed implementation date of January 2015.

The Board intends to consider approval of the first draft addendum for public comment in February at the Commission’s Winter Meeting, and consider approval of the second draft addendum for public comment in May at the Commission’s Spring Meeting. A more detailed description of the stock assessment results is available on the Commission’s website at http://www.asmfc.org/uploads/file/AtlStripedBassStockAssessmentOverview_Oct2013.pdf. The 2013 Atlantic Striped Bass Benchmark Stock Assessment and Peer Review is still being finalized by the Northeast Regional Stock Assessment Workshop/Stock Assessment Committee; please check http://www.nefsc.noaa.gov/saw/reports.html for its availability. The Commission’s 2013 Stock Assessment Update, which revises the benchmark stock assessment with final 2012 landings, is available at http://www.asmfc.org/uploads/file/AtlStripedBass2013AssessmentUpdate.pdf

For more information, please contact Mike Waine, Fishery Management Plan Coordinator, at 703.842.0741 or mwaine@asmfc.org.

It takes 11 years for a striped bass to reach #20, and about 16 years to reach #40.

In 2022 there will be good numbers of quality fish.

Until then what we have is what we have.
What we have is disappearing fast.
Raising the target from .18 to .22 will help make them disappear even faster.

It won't matter to the sustainability of the species since the 2011 year class will eventually provide plenty of breeders.

It will matter a huge amount to those of us who like to catch decent fish. Once what we have is gone we will have nothing but small fish for a long time.

The ASMFC does not care about the quality of the fishery. That is not their mandate.

Without gamefish status and a major change in catch and kill recreational philosophy things are grim for all but the youngest guys out there fishing.

I'm pretty sure there isn't an easy or simple answer to this, but what is the best way to pursue making stripers game fish on the entire east coast? I know some states recognize them as such, but not others. Do they have to be recognized federally or is it a state-by-state battle -- or both?

Weren't Red Drum in this same kind of trouble and now recognized as game fish?

Finally.
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"... estimated at 128 million pounds just above the SSB threshold of 127 million pounds"

You're kidding me right? There is no way in hell they know the amount of spawning stock this accurately. Remember, the same scientists that were in charge said all is OK with codfish...then, Oppps we were wrong, the fishery is a complete disaster, sorry.


SB needs to be removed from their responsibility. If anything they have proved they (by way of the previous SB stock collapse) can not manage the resource. As they were in charge and were essentially forced to shut it down.

GAMEFISH with 1 @ 36" (or a tag system, where you can take X fish per season) and strong protection of baitfish coast-wide is the only thing that will work. I have given this a lot of thought. No commercial activity on wild fish and limit rec take to X fish per season. ( where X is very conservative number) What we are doing now with all these targets and thresholds are analogous to kids playing in a sandbox. Big cutbacks across the board are needed with attn to what they eat.

^^^^^^^ x2

"... estimated at 128 million pounds just above the SSB threshold of 127 million pounds"

You're kidding me right? There is no way in hell they know the amount of spawning stock this accurately. Remember, the same scientists that were in charge said all is OK with codfish...then, Oppps we were wrong, the fishery is a complete disaster, sorry.


SB needs to be removed from their responsibility. If anything they have proved they (by way of the previous SB stock collapse) can not manage the resource. As they were in charge and were essentially forced to shut it down.

GAMEFISH with 1 @ 36" (or a tag system, where you can take X fish per season) and strong protection of baitfish coast-wide is the only thing that will work. I have given this a lot of thought. No commercial activity on wild fish and limit rec take to X fish per season. ( where X is very conservative number) What we are doing now with all these targets and thresholds are analogous to kids playing in a sandbox. Big cutbacks across the board are needed with attn to what they eat.
what he said^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I think most people will agree the stock has been declining in recent years, and something needs to be done. I'm guessing they lower the number to 1 per day or raise the length to maybe 30". Hopefully,
they will take action in time to prevent things from getting to where they were 30 years ago. I remember in '90, we never even thought about fishing for them, there were so few; we caught one or two all
summer trolling for bluefish near Cuttyhunk, and thought they were a curiosity "Hey look, wow, it's a striped bass!". Don't want us to go back to those days.

BP, thank you for attending and for posting this....

I might have read this wrong, but they're not implementing the new regulations until 2015? :confused:

Things would go faster if not for those making money at the exspence of the fishery fighting any type of changes.Sprtfishermen are such a huge majority and an unbeleivably huge economic benefit to the whole coastline. but most of us don't have the money to pay for whats needed. An affective lobby to show things as they really are.3 to 5 thousand commercials do not deserve 50% of the stocks considering there are millions of recreational. the numbers and figures are so rediculous considering how they're used to sque the argument that it's sad.Majority is supposed to rule not just a very small user group.

BP, thank you for attending and for posting this....

I might have read this wrong, but they're not implementing the new regulations until 2015? :confused:

That's correct. It'll take them that long to jump through all the bureaucratic hoops they have to pass through.

But note that is not to say that any individual state can't take immediate action.

"... estimated at 128 million pounds just above the SSB threshold of 127 million pounds"

You're kidding me right? There is no way in hell they know the amount of spawning stock this accurately. Remember, the same scientists that were in charge said all is OK with codfish...then, Oppps we were wrong, the fishery is a complete disaster, sorry.


SB needs to be removed from their responsibility. If anything they have proved they (by way of the previous SB stock collapse) can not manage the resource. As they were in charge and were essentially forced to shut it down.

GAMEFISH with 1 @ 36" (or a tag system, where you can take X fish per season) and strong protection of baitfish coast-wide is the only thing that will work. I have given this a lot of thought. No commercial activity on wild fish and limit rec take to X fish per season. ( where X is very conservative number) What we are doing now with all these targets and thresholds are analogous to kids playing in a sandbox. Big cutbacks across the board are needed with attn to what they eat.

Just for accuracy, ASMFC was not managing the stock at the time of the last collapse. Making the fish a no sale fish coastwide is against the law. But any state can do it, NJ, CT and NH already have.

Things would go faster if not for those making money at the exspence of the fishery fighting any type of changes.Sprtfishermen are such a huge majority and an unbeleivably huge economic benefit to the whole coastline. but most of us don't have the money to pay for whats needed. An affective lobby to show things as they really are.3 to 5 thousand commercials do not deserve 50% of the stocks considering there are millions of recreational. the numbers and figures are so rediculous considering how they're used to sque the argument that it's sad.Majority is supposed to rule not just a very small user group.

They don't have "50% of the stock." They catch approximately 20% of the total catch.

I think most people will agree the stock has been declining in recent years, and something needs to be done. I'm guessing they lower the number to 1 per day or raise the length to maybe 30". Hopefully,
they will take action in time to prevent things from getting to where they were 30 years ago. I remember in '90, we never even thought about fishing for them, there were so few; we caught one or two all
summer trolling for bluefish near Cuttyhunk, and thought they were a curiosity "Hey look, wow, it's a striped bass!". Don't want us to go back to those days.

It appears, based on what was said at the meeting, that reducing the bag limit to one fish per day will not be enough to meet the new fishing mortality target. I would expect either a seasonal closure or an increase in the size limit in addition to a one fish per day creel limit.

Just for accuracy, ASMFC was not managing the stock at the time of the last collapse. Making the fish a no sale fish coastwide is against the law. But any state can do it, NJ, CT and NH already have.

Who cares about the committee of self appointed experts called asmfc, fisherman don't.

In the early 1940s, recognizing that they could accomplish far more through cooperation rather than individual effort, the Atlantic coast states came together to form the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (Commission). An Interstate Compact, ratified by the states and approved by the U.S. Congress in 1942, acknowledged the necessity of the states joining forces to manage their shared migratory fishery resources and affirmed the states’ commitment to cooperative stewardship in promoting and protecting Atlantic coastal fishery resource
---------------------------------------
If I recall the collapse was in the 1990's.
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One of the many problems with fishery management today is exactly this... There are too many managers and people involved. It's a friggin shell game and every different group has their own hidden agenda. They have created all these convoluted "rules" "limits" "quotas" "thresholds" "formulas" that lead to public hearings then committee create these so called "laws" from all this bull#^&#^&#^&#^& and they that are ineffective to the common fishermen. Bottom line is each state has regulated SB from the time I was a kid. I always thought it should be taken away from the states since the fish swims freely between them but what matters is protection. The end was doomed when they created this thing called "user groups" and this was nothing more than a divide and conquer approach clothed in "fairness" suit and it destroying the resource in front of our eyes..

We don't need all these people at the helm. We need some common sense regulations that are conservative and simple to enforce and some protection of the food these fish must eat, that is it. Stop trying to squeeze every drop of sustainable yield from the ocean...it is OK to have a little fat in the system.


If you make things complicated enough, know one really understands it and that leads to no one seems to care anymore.

Look if we hit this arbitrary threshold line...can we say that the system asmfc put in place is not working and they failed? They already admit we are going to hit it...but they are not going to do anything about it for a few years. WTF? No reason to be proactive or conservative...:yak5:

Fire everyone at all levels and start over...IMO you need 5 or 6 people to manage this. 2 scientists, 2 managers and a secretary. No public hearings, no meetings, just do what is right and issue a decree.


I have to log off my BP is getting aggravated again.

The system is what it is. If you want to replace it the time to act is now, the magnesson-stevens act is up for reauthorization next year and that is main law that dictates how fish should be managed. Unless and until its changed this is the system we have, you either learn how it works and be engaged or you just bitch and moan and take what the system gives you. The choice is yours.

Maybe there should be a "czar" of fishing who could just issue edicts.

Your right Mako. But at the hearings the arguement is that sportsmen get 50% an comms get the right to harvest up to 50%.The problem is that the only way for things like what we did up here in Maine way back when to work is to get the percentage point out of the arguement and just focus on the fish.

Your right Mako. But at the hearings the arguement is that sportsmen get 50% an comms get the right to harvest up to 50%.The problem is that the only way for things like what we did up here in Maine way back when to work is to get the percentage point out of the arguement and just focus on the fish.

I'm not sure I understand that. Are you saying that in ME the commercials get 50% of the fish? Coastwide the commercials get about 20% of the fish.

In Maine stripers are a gamefish there is no commercial for them.We have a slot fish or trophy. 20 to 26 in or over 40 in.Only 1 fish per day.
The stripers are looked at as a stock. The arguement is that sportsmen can have 50% an comms can have up to 50%. we argue over who can have how much rather than how to keep both quality and number. Sustainable yeild is a joke. It's just another way to justify not doing anything positive for the fish.

Aside from posting long winded bitching posts on message boards about this situation, is there anything we can actually do as an organized group to affect change?

How many members are there between here and the other sites? Not to mention MSBA and RISSA, etc. all up and down the coast!

How hard would it be to actually organize some sort of movement, petition or something along those lines. It's a long winter. I would volunteer some significant time but I don't know what to do?

There seem to be a couple of people on here who are "in the know" of how this "F'd up system" actually works and when the opportunities to strike actually occur. Tell us what to do? What is the best, most concentrated method of getting the point across?

Seems to me that the "Big Dogs" - OTW, RISSA, MSBA and the shops, Red Top, SW Edge and any shop on the east coast that target the hard core surfcaster (who primarily fish for Bass) have a vested interest in putting up any cash needed. Operators of these boards should reach out to each other to discuss a united front approach to something organized.

We seem to be a rather large group and we should be able to do something other than bitch about it.

We need a leader, a clear message with direction and a plan. Don't we have until 2015 to "Bitch" in the right direction?

The normal turnout at these meetings is a handfull at best.Most are either too busy or too uninformed.Those of us on these post are only a small handfull spread out all along the striper coast. The active ones are already doing.i tried a few times to get people along the ditch to join anything. LOL too busy fishing .Clubs are few n far between and the computer has done loads of damage to people gettin together.
New ideas are great. Would you like to be the chair of the committee to get the ball rolling with your ideas? I'll help and so won't some others.

I vote for stripermaineiac as president of the new committee....and tri-state. :-p
Maine has it right with the slot, but it is probably too late anyway, and waiting until 2015 is ridiculous...oh wait, politics.

Basic, Thanks for the info and keep up the good work.

Chunka- I agree with you about Maine having it right. A slot limit is the wa to go this time around as we tried the large size limt and we're back in the same boat we were in in the '80's. Let's try something different it might just work. Ron

Aside from posting long winded bitching posts on message boards about this situation, is there anything we can actually do as an organized group to affect change?

How many members are there between here and the other sites? Not to mention MSBA and RISSA, etc. all up and down the coast!

How hard would it be to actually organize some sort of movement, petition or something along those lines. It's a long winter. I would volunteer some significant time but I don't know what to do?

There seem to be a couple of people on here who are "in the know" of how this "F'd up system" actually works and when the opportunities to strike actually occur. Tell us what to do? What is the best, most concentrated method of getting the point across?

Seems to me that the "Big Dogs" - OTW, RISSA, MSBA and the shops, Red Top, SW Edge and any shop on the east coast that target the hard core surfcaster (who primarily fish for Bass) have a vested interest in putting up any cash needed. Operators of these boards should reach out to each other to discuss a united front approach to something organized.

We seem to be a rather large group and we should be able to do something other than bitch about it.

We need a leader, a clear message with direction and a plan. Don't we have until 2015 to "Bitch" in the right direction?

It would be like trying to heard cats. :D Look at these discussions, seems like we can't even get two people to agree on what should be done. And the truth is no one knows what any of the proposals would do to the statistics that are used to manage the fishery. Some guys like ME's rules, but the truth is that ME's rules are designed to be the conservational equivalent of 2 fish at 28 inches, so going coastwide with that is going to do nothing to reduce the harvest. Yes there are times when pressure is more effective than at other times, but what do you want to apply pressure for?

I know of one way to solve this. No one keeps anything. Fish win. No arguing. Cut and dried. C&R.
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I know of one way to solve this. No one keeps anything. Fish win. No arguing. Cut and dried. C&R.
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Tell that to the seals!!!!!

Well that is a whole nuther issue. We can work on that after we get this done. Who knows maybe surfcasting for seals is more fun than bass and if that is the case you would be in prime target zone. Something tells me they were here long before us like the American Indian. maybe we can hook them up with a nice small pox virus or something like we did to them and that will solve our problem.
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I'm glad they are stepping in, and quite honestly if they're going to take action they should do it this year rather than 2015.

That said, Maine's slot limit is ridiculous and failed at accomplishing any sort of conservation.
Maine's overall Striper mortality INCREASED significantly when the slot was implemented. I'll argue all day long its the antithesis of conservation, and if implemented coastwide would destroy the Striper population.

1 fish at 34 or 36 - it worked before, it will work again.
An equivalent cut to the commercial quota as well - if the market supply is controlled adequately, the actual net dollars (higher price for less lbs landed) will not change for the commercial guys.
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if the market supply is controlled adequately, the actual net dollars (higher price for less lbs landed) will not change for the commercial guys.
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I totally agree Jay and would luv to see a 10 fish a day quota and a cut from the overall total.

1 at 36. Make it a gamefish. Take the price off it's head. Protect the bunker.
Simple.
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How's greed work? Oh ya as long as I can still make the bucks cut everyone else LOL . OK. I know this is a waste but since Maine only lands less than 1 % of the stripers landed not much we do will affect others. but for us since 96 well the number of stripers we land and the size has almost dropped off the chart. As far as an increase in what we kill -LOL-don't know about that. Might be if you look at the small increase in the number of anglers up here. But it's a heck of a lot better than 2 fish 28 in that helps creat the slaughter of fish in the canal.More mortality just there than we see in a couple seasons. so do we just keep argueing or get off our collective butts and work together and do something. Poleticians are part of the problem along with the greedy. Gamefish and 36 in will help but it wont stop the charter slaughter in the EEZ,The Canal and all other places like that. The Tournements and derbys hurt some but look at the Vineyard and see the decline in fish weighed in over a month. LOL look at the MS weekend. Loads of fish there LOL with a bunch of good fishermen. A dozen fish over 100 angles. We don't do something soon and you young guys are gonna feel what we did back in the 80's.
So we gonna do something or just keep bitchin at each other.

Maybe your fishing sucks up in Maine because you implemented that asinine "management plan" that targets sexually immature fish.
*and as a bonus, kills the breeders too...
Maine's pre slot and post slot kill #s have been posted a million times - I really don't feel like looking up the reference, but the kills went up three fold when you guys started killing the babies.

And by the way - I'm in favor of management cuts that will adversely effect my own income. But I'm looking at long term viability and fairness to all user groups rather than what suits my own short term needs.
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LOL ok . Your right we're all just dummies.So what are your ideas and how do we make them work.The small amount we take up here isn't a days fishin in Mass. The problem needs to be fixed or else. Or is it still gonna be the same. just keep doin nothin.Then whine when the bottom falls out and blame everyone.

1 fish at 34 or 36 - it worked before, it will work again.
An equivalent cut to the commercial quota as well - if the market supply is controlled adequately, the actual net dollars (higher price for less lbs landed) will not change for the commercial guys.
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Here's a start.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I'm glad they are stepping in, and quite honestly if they're going to take action they should do it this year rather than 2015.

That said, Maine's slot limit is ridiculous and failed at accomplishing any sort of conservation.
Maine's overall Striper mortality INCREASED significantly when the slot was implemented. I'll argue all day long its the antithesis of conservation, and if implemented coastwide would destroy the Striper population.


FYI ME's slot limit was not designed to reduce the catch, it was supposed to be "conservationally equivalent" to the "normal" 2 fish at 28 inches.

1 at 36. Make it a gamefish. Take the price off it's head. Protect the bunker.
Simple.
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Striped Bass would flourish once again. It seems EVERY species I've fished for my entire life has taken similar hits. Seems to me like decades of fisheries mismanagement has taken its toll.

What about directing our energy to established organizations that share some of the concerns here? Coastal Conservation Association? Stripers Forever?

Does anyone see merit in these (or other) organizations representing sport anglers?

Maybe your fishing sucks up in Maine because you implemented that asinine "management plan" that targets sexually immature fish.
*and as a bonus, kills the breeders too...
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The catch trend in Maine follows the catch trend throughout the coast. Both are down about 50% from 2008-2012. How many of those Maine fish leave and get hammered on the trip back south? They aren't all Kennebunk fish and it isn't an isolated population. Even the harvest data is inconclusive. Bad yoy in the chesapeake would limit slot size fish in Maine.

I think a slot over complicates the situation. I realize there is scientific merit to it regardless. 1 @ 36 is a proven road to recovery. It allows fish to spawn before being targeted for harvest. As far as commercial goes I want to see how the tag system works. Where every tag is accountable. I am in no way an advocate for commercial fishing. But I feel recreational guys need to take a long hard look in the mirror before they point fingers.
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Ok so how do we get it started? 1 fish 36 in sounds good. It would make a huge inroad as to the kill numbers along parts of the migration route. But how do we as a group-Striper Fishermen- get the ball rolling? 1 fish will be a step alone. Over 30 in another step.But we need to take the steps as a group get get it done.

[QUOTE=New ideas are great. Would you like to be the chair of the committee to get the ball rolling with your ideas? I'll help and so won't some others.[/QUOTE]

So, I'm definitely not the person to chair as I have no idea what would be the most effective method and as others have said, what is the message??? I am committed to putting in as much effort as I can to help.

I agree that 1 @ 36 has been the only measurably effective method of restoration and why not support what we know works.

I don't know how others feel but I would guess that most of the req guys would be happy to "donate" their current two per day quota to the comm guys to maybe avoid some staunch opposition from the guys who do rely on the fishery to provide for their families? Maybe on the license, there could be an option to "opt out" of being able to harvest.

Sounds like the first goal is to agree on the target regulations. How do we start that discussion? Maybe a survey through the local magazines, SCJ, OTW, Fisherman, F&S, handouts at shops and the big shows coming up after the new year? This could be almost like a vote where you check your box, sign and send it in. Include your fishing license number, etc. I would volunteer to distribute and try to educate at shows, etc.

There are two groups: Those that want to make a living on it and those that want to preserve it, and maybe a 3rd somewhere in between. We both have to give in order for it to not vanish and we have to find common ground and then join forces to push the terds in control to adopt what the people who pay them want them to do.

Ist you can't just ask the majority to give more to the minority to shut them up.just adds another arguement.size and number might have the most leeway for discussion.As far as user groups and those that make a livin with well it's a very broad base. From the guide to the deli all are stake holders.Commercial taking of the fish is at best a side line or a short term part time job.the gas station that sell the gas we use has a larger economic hurt by the loss of the species and it's broad base monitary affect than either tackle shops or charter businesses.But all have to kept in thought as far as the effect of what ever we choose.Most sportfishermen really don't keep a lot of fish but cumulatively the catch is huge.Like one charter boat compared to coastwide . to get the best benefit for the fish what ever is done has to be perceived by both as fair and realistic.
How about ist if we try to get a list of as many clubs,tackleshops,charters,commercial guys and groups such as CCA,RFC,Stripers Forever and so on along with the tournaments to one create a mailing list and a way to get both input and distribute questions.
On top a good computer type that has a clue in how to make both the info and the web work for the same positive goal. Keeping striped bass from going down the same path as back in the 70's an 80's.
LOL Probably one of the younger types LOL that speaks computerese.

What Jay said

seems that all existing orgs, groups, etc have their own agendas. and that the comm interests are very well financed and organized. maybe need we one that has the well being of the fishery first and foremost. first thing is to organize on a coastwide basis. it's always about the $$ we fishermen dump chitloads into the economy- there has to be a way to turn that into a voice with some thump.

I keep hearing that 1@36" worked, but wasn't that after the moratorium? Why not try the slot limit like Maine has. If it doesn't work we can change it. Ron

slot fishing is too complicated, both for fisherman and enforcement.

36" fish gives every fish a chance to reproduce more than once. Why anyone would want to take a juvenile fish is beyond comprehension.I guess the theory is ...Lets kill the babies and then we will have just big fish left...yeah but for how long?

What ever we come up with we need a centralized voice to get things going so that we work together and not come from too many angles at once. Muddy water just makes the real issue the fish harder to see. the me me mine mine issue has been used to long against any type of posetive action. Once we get around that by being focused on the fish the other issues will be easier to address.There are already plenty of fishermen LOL we really don't need to worry about conserving them. It's the fish we need to help out.

I keep hearing that 1@36" worked, but wasn't that after the moratorium? Why not try the slot limit like Maine has. If it doesn't work we can change it. Ron

Why re invent the wheel. Change does not come easy. Regardless any plan that eliminates potential breeding fish is counter productive.
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What we need is an online petition. Base it upon an agreeable middle ground on implementing a change to recreational take of bass with a controlled scale back on coastal commercial quota.

The petition I imagine could be easily implemented via web. (I am not a web guy so I can't speak to this). It will be easy for individuals to participate in. Anonymous and easily promoted via boards FB twitter etc.
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slot fishing is too complicated, both for fisherman and enforcement.

36" fish gives every fish a chance to reproduce more than once. Why anyone would want to take a juvenile fish is beyond comprehension.I guess the theory is ...Lets kill the babies and then we will have just big fish left...yeah but for how long?

I PREFER eating 28"-32" fish so it is what I choose to kill (1-2 a year). But I would without hesitation support a 36" limit.

What we need is an online petition. Base it upon an agreeable middle ground on implementing a change to recreational take of bass with a controlled scale back on coastal commercial quota.

The petition I imagine could be easily implemented via web. (I am not a web guy so I can't speak to this). It will be easy for individuals to participate in. Anonymous and easily promoted via boards FB twitter etc.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device


NO. What we need is NO public input. This is the problem. We need someone to mandate this is what will be done to protect the fishery...end of story. Nothing else needs to be said. If it is a reduction or a complete shut down...fine, just do it.

Food for thought. Every striper is part of the breeding process so the only way to stop the counter productive process is to make it catch n relase totally ie gamefish-release. not ever gonna happen and that issue just keeps us devided.
Question does an online petition have the legal teeth needed due to the almost impossebility to verify it to force the political hand working against the striped bass?

NO. What we need is NO public input. This is the problem. We need someone to mandate this is what will be done to protect the fishery...end of story. Nothing else needs to be said. If it is a reduction or a complete shut down...fine, just do it.

I appreciate and understand that but how does one get the ear of the management. By showing there is a concentrated group of people a large number of them that feel we need this type of change. Other wise 2015 is going to show up and this board is going to make a decision for all of us. The decision will happen regardless. If we can put something in front of them that they can look at and digest well we at least gave it a shot
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Well question Jim. How does that get done with out input ist and 2nd in the corrupted political enviorn that exist today?

The only thing anyone can do is to write to the members of the striped bass board and make your views known. Having said that, it probably won't make much of a difference. You guys have no idea what impact any of these proposals would have on the harvest. The technical committee will work up the numbers, and the board will adopt whichever proposals they deem appropriate that will bring the harvest down to the required level.

One thing I can agree with Sandman about, this is NOT A DEMOCRACY! nor should it be.

The only thing that will have any legal teeth is a proposed amendment to the management plan. Which will be made available for public comment. We know how wildly popular going to the input hearings is. If someone were to present 100000 signatures or e signature to the board they would take notice
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The problem is Mike is that the numbers they keep using have shown to be flawed so often that all they've done so far is make things worse not improved things.we need to change the process. This isn't about what won't work we need to do something that will. ASMFC has shown it's self to be not just inefective but biased against the fish not just one user group or another.If we just sit on our hands and do nothing instead of working towards action that is posetive than we might just as well all give it up.I don't buy it.1 there are way too many of us to just say we don't count.2 all these appointees work for us it's time we show them that.I don't mind someone makeing a decision when voted or appointed to do so but time n time again they have shown that they're not up to doing the job. to continually ignore all of us time and again and for us to keep being proven right then it's time we changed this process or make them fix it.

The balls in our court and ther's way more than enough of us to prove the point and fix it.

The only thing anyone can do is to write to the members of the striped bass board and make your views known. Having said that, it probably won't make much of a difference. You guys have no idea what impact any of these proposals would have on the harvest. The technical committee will work up the numbers, and the board will adopt whichever proposals they deem appropriate that will bring the harvest down to the required level.

One thing I can agree with Sandman about, this is NOT A DEMOCRACY! nor should it be.

Ok then forget it we can simply sit on our hands and throw blame around for ever. Let the technical committee do the job they are doing while the managers are influenced by lobbies etc. Which will sway their thinking on the subject with out a doubt.

Well I guess we can just hope when management action happens in 2015 we see a change to 1 a day.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Hey..... there's also some wicked pissa new health plans out there done by committees and boards that completely know what we need.
To put blind faith in any government " committee " is to have your head so far up your ass you could re-eat yesterday's lunch.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Hey..... there's also some wicked pissa new health plans out there done by committees and boards that completely know what we need.
To put blind faith in any government " committee " is to have your head so far up your ass you could re-eat yesterday's lunch.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

:claps:

So again what ARE WE GONNA DO TO FIX WHATS BROKEN.

we need to organize...i for one can donate some of my time. we need an org. from the ground up.oh makai- thanks! i just spit up coffee everywhere :)

Very nice Makai. Love it.insurance anyone LOL

We need a computer guy that's under 50 LOL . Most of old farts just break the damn things or use them as a deck of cards.

can't stop laughin LOL

The problem is Mike is that the numbers they keep using have shown to be flawed so often that all they've done so far is make things worse not improved things.we need to change the process. This isn't about what won't work we need to do something that will. ASMFC has shown it's self to be not just inefective but biased against the fish not just one user group or another.If we just sit on our hands and do nothing instead of working towards action that is posetive than we might just as well all give it up.I don't buy it.1 there are way too many of us to just say we don't count.2 all these appointees work for us it's time we show them that.I don't mind someone makeing a decision when voted or appointed to do so but time n time again they have shown that they're not up to doing the job. to continually ignore all of us time and again and for us to keep being proven right then it's time we changed this process or make them fix it.

To the contrary, the numbers they have been using have proven to be correct. None of us on here are "fishery Scientists" and that is what the managers are required to us, e.g. the "best available science." Like many here, you would like the fishery to be managed to maximize the population, but that is not the legally mandated requirement they have to work toward. As I have said before, if you want to change the system you have to use the legislative process, and with the Magnesson-Stevens act up for renewal now is you chance.

FWIW - based on the numbers that I have heard tossed about going to a one fish per day creel limit is a virtual certainty, but that alone won't be enough to do the job. They will also have to take other measures to reduce the harvest.

The only thing that will have any legal teeth is a proposed amendment to the management plan. Which will be made available for public comment. We know how wildly popular going to the input hearings is. If someone were to present 100000 signatures or e signature to the board they would take notice
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Yes Comments on any proposed addendum or amendment would be noticed and be appropriate. But that would require people to actually read and understand the public information document that the board puts out. And that is an effort a lot of people refuse to make.

Double M.... being blinded by science often ends up as a fools errand. Silly stupid humans do it all the time.
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Double M.... being blinded by science often ends up as a fools errand. Silly stupid humans do it all the time.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

But its the law as to how U.S. fisheries should be managed. Would you like to back to the days when the "science" didn't matter and the councils set harvest level waaaay above the scientific recommendations?

Depends whose sheets the scientists are in between. Unfortunately government agencies just don't fill me with confidence.
There's no way anyone knows the status of the fisheries. Way too many variables. ( ie cod . fair amount of science behind that one )
So excuse me if I prefer to err on the side of caution.
I did talk to a couple of fisheries ( at a meeting ) scientist regarding the Chesapeake watershed. They told me that it now takes 3 times the spawning biomass to produce the same YOY as it did 20 yrs ago. That's pretty telling science to me.
It's obvious science is important, but I don't find it the be all that ends all.

Just ask the rocket scientists at JPL after they crashed or lost contact with 3 out of 4 multi billion dollar probes to Mars. .... Oops
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Mako , There are loads of laws out there that are tweeked and improved all the time. when one doesn't do as it's supposed to you fix it.you like many of us spends loads of time on the water. Sad part is we never see any of these so called science advisors or scientist out there. we know more than many of them ever could as we see whats there and not just from a computer screen.LOL we have fisheries law an a lisence yet I've seem 1 DEM 0fficial in 12 yrs.
As far as public information documents well -LOL- many are intentionally set up so that most couldn't understand them. Almost like lawyers have done to our legal system with legalise.The system needs to be fixed . IT IS NOT WORKING AS IT WAS SET UP TO DO.We need to fix it before someone in an office that has never walked a beach at night and seen the comercials pull up to draggers and off load striper during the com seasom to sell and split the money.Or been on the Canal and watch the xtra trips taken home with fish to keep multiple catches in the same day.The numbers are a sad guess at best. No where's close to being close to real.
Look at the Derby this year. Over 3000 entrants. 32 or more weigh in slots between shore,boat,fly rod and juniors and mini's a day for striped bass. 487 stripers weighed in for the whole 30 day plus Derby.Ms Tourney over 100 anglers and only 13 fish including blues over the weekend.These numbers are not listed as they weren't tabulated by scientist. They only use what numbers justify the political ajenda of the poletician in charge wants.I work for the state of Maine we see it all the time. Figures lie and liars figure.they read the fishing reports and use those numbers . LOL we all know how accurate those are.The system needs to be fixed. The fishing coastwide proves it not what a couple sharpies see hear n there.
Our fisheries laws have all but destroyed one fisherie after another. Time to fix it.

Mako has the right idea..... the way to fix this is to work to change the system- and work to bring a change in language in Magnusen/Stevensen Act; to affect the mandate that the commisioners are required to work with- now its "maximim sustainable yield". Under those guidelines, they are required to keep catching (killing) levels at the highest possible without the stock collapsing. that is THE GOAL of MSA

the StripedBass Management Board can only work within that framework.... amendments to the Plan will only bring about changes to achieve the exact same goal.
IF YOU WANT THE GOAL TO CHANGE- then you need to change the basic rules they operate under

Ok . So what do we need to do to get the language changed? Then how do we do it ? Some of you out there know way more about this stuff that I could ever dream.I just know what I see. How do we fix it?

Mako , There are loads of laws out there that are tweeked and improved all the time. when one doesn't do as it's supposed to you fix it.you like many of us spends loads of time on the water. Sad part is we never see any of these so called science advisors or scientist out there. we know more than many of them ever could as we see whats there and not just from a computer screen.LOL we have fisheries law an a lisence yet I've seem 1 DEM 0fficial in 12 yrs.
As far as public information documents well -LOL- many are intentionally set up so that most couldn't understand them. Almost like lawyers have done to our legal system with legalise.The system needs to be fixed . IT IS NOT WORKING AS IT WAS SET UP TO DO.We need to fix it before someone in an office that has never walked a beach at night and seen the comercials pull up to draggers and off load striper during the com seasom to sell and split the money.Or been on the Canal and watch the xtra trips taken home with fish to keep multiple catches in the same day.The numbers are a sad guess at best. No where's close to being close to real.
Look at the Derby this year. Over 3000 entrants. 32 or more weigh in slots between shore,boat,fly rod and juniors and mini's a day for striped bass. 487 stripers weighed in for the whole 30 day plus Derby.Ms Tourney over 100 anglers and only 13 fish including blues over the weekend.These numbers are not listed as they weren't tabulated by scientist. They only use what numbers justify the political ajenda of the poletician in charge wants.I work for the state of Maine we see it all the time. Figures lie and liars figure.they read the fishing reports and use those numbers . LOL we all know how accurate those are.The system needs to be fixed. The fishing coastwide proves it not what a couple sharpies see hear n there.
Our fisheries laws have all but destroyed one fisherie after another. Time to fix it.

Sorry, I just have to say it, you have no effin idea of what you are talking about. There, I feel better now. :)

Mako has the right idea..... the way to fix this is to work to change the system- and work to bring a change in language in Magnusen/Stevensen Act; to affect the mandate that the commisioners are required to work with- now its "maximim sustainable yield". Under those guidelines, they are required to keep catching (killing) levels at the highest possible without the stock collapsing. that is THE GOAL of MSA

the StripedBass Management Board can only work within that framework.... amendments to the Plan will only bring about changes to achieve the exact same goal.
IF YOU WANT THE GOAL TO CHANGE- then you need to change the basic rules they operate under

Ding, Ding, Ding! Give that man a cigar, at least someone understand what I have been preaching here for at least the last six months!

Ok . So what do we need to do to get the language changed? Then how do we do it ? Some of you out there know way more about this stuff that I could ever dream.I just know what I see. How do we fix it?

How many times to have to type "write to your congressman and senators"? Sitting on you ass and typing on internet forums isn't going to get anything done!

LOL Yup your right I don't have a clue LOL. Done the writing as many of us do. Phone calls never are returned and the 1-800 report numbers seem to be a waste. Funny being that i have a cell have most of the numbers in it . Call frequent. When the site ask us to contact poletician we do. Broke is still broke. You have an idea . Good. How do we do it. how do dummie like myself that have no idea an have no clue get it fixed. You seem to have an opinion and hate hearing what others see an deal with so why don't you Quote get off your butt and help do something rather than just keep putting others IDEAS DOWN AND SLAMMIN THEM.Every year we see the same with guys slammin every idea instead of helping get something done.
Our rep is a freind of mine. We talk a bit. his frustration is that we don't have the numbers showing at the meetings to make a difference. The few of us that are trying keep getting sucker shotted by guys that don't want change till it's too late.
As far as not havin a clue well what i wrote I saw ist hand.I reported it along with boat numbers. Nothing was done.I fished almost 4 weeks of the Derby and saw charter guys and hard core chasing Black fish and sea bass due to so few stripers. I saw one of the hardest core fisherman I know go 3 weeks with out a striper at one of the top spots on the coast.But your right guys like me that take the time to argue don't have all the answers and when we ask for help we take sucker shots from those that don't want things to chang. but that's ok.We'll fix it with out your help if you just want to be negative.
Oh by the way my rep said if we can get some stuff going to get it to him. LOL That was just from sittin on my butt an not havin a clue LOL. Sorry had to.

LOL Yup your right I don't have a clue LOL. Done the writing as many of us do. Phone calls never are returned and the 1-800 report numbers seem to be a waste. Funny being that i have a cell have most of the numbers in it . Call frequent. When the site ask us to contact poletician we do. Broke is still broke. You have an idea . Good. How do we do it. how do dummie like myself that have no idea an have no clue get it fixed. You seem to have an opinion and hate hearing what others see an deal with so why don't you Quote get off your butt and help do something rather than just keep putting others IDEAS DOWN AND SLAMMIN THEM.Every year we see the same with guys slammin every idea instead of helping get something done.
Our rep is a freind of mine. We talk a bit. his frustration is that we don't have the numbers showing at the meetings to make a difference. The few of us that are trying keep getting sucker shotted by guys that don't want change till it's too late.
As far as not havin a clue well what i wrote I saw ist hand.I reported it along with boat numbers. Nothing was done.I fished almost 4 weeks of the Derby and saw charter guys and hard core chasing Black fish and sea bass due to so few stripers. I saw one of the hardest core fisherman I know go 3 weeks with out a striper at one of the top spots on the coast.But your right guys like me that take the time to argue don't have all the answers and when we ask for help we take sucker shots from those that don't want things to chang. but that's ok.We'll fix it with out your help if you just want to be negative.
Oh by the way my rep said if we can get some stuff going to get it to him. LOL That was just from sittin on my butt an not havin a clue LOL. Sorry had to.

I'm just fine with the way the ASMFC board is handling it, and I see no reason to change. What I was trying to do was to point those, like you who don't like the way things are, as to how to change things. If you don't know how to write a letter to your congressman or Senator, that ain't my fault. :) If "your" ASMFC rep wants to take measures that restrict the harvest more than what is scientifically required, he's going to feel like he was hit by a freight train. :)

Actually what he wants to do is try to fix whats wrong with the process. He's a fisherman like us and a guide.He was a kid in the 80's and felt what was a mess back then and fished with one of the best striper fishermen on the coast.
As far as letter writing well the thousands that hace been sent through postal an email just haven't seemed to had an affect.Mores needed to make a change.
Like I said you don't have to help. Just remember this is about the fish.

Actually what he wants to do is try to fix whats wrong with the process. He's a fisherman like us and a guide.He was a kid in the 80's and felt what was a mess back then and fished with one of the best striper fishermen on the coast.
As far as letter writing well the thousands that hace been sent through postal an email just haven't seemed to had an affect.Mores needed to make a change.
Like I said you don't have to help. Just remember this is about the fish.

No its not about the fish if it was you could just join PETA and stop all fishing. Its about the fishermen and how they will be regulated.

Yes Comments on any proposed addendum or amendment would be noticed and be appropriate. But that would require people to actually read and understand the public information document that the board puts out. And that is an effort a lot of people refuse to make.

This is where all of the shop owners and anyone who makes a profit off of having the fish available to catch comes in. A flyer in every shop on the striper coast that reads"THE STRIPED BASS NEEDS YOUR HELP TO REMAIN IN EXISTENCE" If you care about the striped bass, please go to SaveTheBass.org and read. Please sign the petition and volunteer what you can.

I would volunteer to stand at the entrance to the big shows and hand out literature.

I get notes from the menhaden defenders once in a while and have signed their petition and have read all of their stuff.

theres information available about the the committee meetings regarding the re-authorization of Mag/Steve- google search it (I cna't cut n' paste links from work) the committees are calling for increased flexibility in using MSA for future management efforts and better consideration of the shifting economic impacts that recreational fisheries are having on fishing communities. also- there is a call for CONSERVATION to be an important consideration in the next re-authorization



now write to your congressmen and ask them to push for conservation and flexibility to be part of the next version of MSA

Hey Pat ,Do you still have that info as to who- poleticians-that have worked best with fisheries issues you mentioned a couple yrs ago.I thought I had a copy but can't find it. Was talking to one of our senators ystrdy and that info would be handy drummin up more support in the congressional halls.I sent all ours a bunch of site addresses so they can read some of the discussions goin on. Some of what he read was very eye opening as he mainly hear mostly about lobsters and offshore netting. Ron