The Koch brothers give big $$ to Republican candidates. The senate majority leader, Harry Reid, personally attacks these guys on the floor of the US Senate. All these guys are doing is expressing their first amendment rights.

Does Reid get upset when George Soros donates to Democrats? Or when labor unions give huge $$ to Democrats?

Right out of Orwell's 1984. Everyone, not just conservatives, should be sickened that Reid would try to bully private citizens for the crime of disagreeing with him. Little fascist jerk.



http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/22/facing-tough-senate-races-reid-fellows-democrats-turn-their-attack-on-citizens/

As Rolling Stone once stated..."If the Koch brothers didn't exist, the left would have to invent them"
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I know what you're thinking...yea, both sides do it.

But from all that I've read, there's no equivalent to the sophistication of what the Koch brothers have managed on the Left. They appear to have an incredible machine of shadow organizations and a strategic agenda...largely focused on making their energy companies a lot of money.

-spence

I know what you're thinking...yea, both sides do it.

But from all that I've read, there's no equivalent to the sophistication of what the Koch brothers have managed on the Left. They appear to have an incredible machine of shadow organizations and a strategic agenda...largely focused on making their energy companies a lot of money.

-spence

:screwy:

:screwy:

How long to you have to wind it before it starts?

-spence

How long to you have to wind it before it starts?

-spence

:rotf2:

Unions put the Koch brothers to shame - support a candidate, get them elected and then negotiate your next contract with them....get them re-elected and so on... and to boot, make it a law that you must join the union if you want to work (at least for teachers).

they should re-name politicians the corruptables

:screwy:

X2. Unbelievable. George Soros and the teachers unions just blindly throw money around...

I know what you're thinking...yea, both sides do it.

But from all that I've read, there's no equivalent to the sophistication of what the Koch brothers have managed on the Left. They appear to have an incredible machine of shadow organizations and a strategic agenda...largely focused on making their energy companies a lot of money.

-spence

Spence, I'm not "thinking" both sides do it...it's irrefutable fact that both sides do it.

"But from all that I've read, there's no equivalent to the sophistication of what the Koch brothers "

Where did you read that, in the Huffington Post? If that's true (and that's a huge "if"), your liberal pal should just follow the Koch's playbook.

Spence, if you, or anyone else, despises the Koch brothers, fine. But a US Senator has no business attacking them on the floor of the US Senate. It's grotesque, it's fascist, and it's absolutely Orwellian.

I note that in your predictable rant, you never mentioned what you think of Reid doing what he did. It's inexcusable More of that liberal "tolerance".

If Reid is paranoid about 2 private citizens now, he's really going to come un-glued in the fall when they open up a can of whoop-ass on anyone who ever voted for Obamacare.

In the 2008 election, when Obama's numbers began to tank because admitted he wanted to "spread the wealth around", the liberal response was to vilify Joe The Plumber.

largely focused on making their energy companies a lot of money.

-spence

As opposed to what teachers' unions do? Seriously? Oh man, you are precious...

I know what you're thinking...yea, both sides do it.

But from all that I've read, there's no equivalent

-spence

"Some lies just won’t go away. In February the Washington Post published an article with the following headline: “Why There’s No Democratic Version of the Koch Brothers’ Organization.” It was the umpteenth attempt to explain, in a particularly simplistic manner, how the millionaires and billionaires who donate money to the Democratic party are nothing, absolutely nothing, like those meanie cancer-research philanthropists Charles and David Koch.

Pretense and make-believe are thick in the air in Barack Obama’s Washington, where one’s alignment with the regnant values and priorities — one’s allegiance to, or at the very least one’s acquiescence in, the programs of the environmental lobby, the union lobby, the abortion lobby — acts as a sort of baptism, cleansing the ethical and intellectual impurities"

http://www.nationalreview.com/node/373927/print

Koch brothers aren't even in the top 10 donors. They just happen to be one of the largest conservative donors. Everyone ahead of them donates to progressives. Looks like more smoke screen..
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Koch brothers aren't even in the top 10 donors. They just happen to be one of the largest conservative donors. Everyone ahead of them donates to progressives. Looks like more smoke screen..
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Can you post a list of the top 10? I'm wondering how anyone would come up with that list since the Koch brothers for example are able to "hide" the amount of their donations?

"Some lies just won’t go away. In February the Washington Post published an article with the following headline: “Why There’s No Democratic Version of the Koch Brothers’ Organization.” It was the umpteenth attempt to explain, in a particularly simplistic manner, how the millionaires and billionaires who donate money to the Democratic party are nothing, absolutely nothing, like those meanie cancer-research philanthropists Charles and David Koch.

Pretense and make-believe are thick in the air in Barack Obama’s Washington, where one’s alignment with the regnant values and priorities — one’s allegiance to, or at the very least one’s acquiescence in, the programs of the environmental lobby, the union lobby, the abortion lobby — acts as a sort of baptism, cleansing the ethical and intellectual impurities"

http://www.nationalreview.com/node/373927/print

Right. The teachers' unions, for example, are not acting out of self-interest when they doante to Democrats. Nope, they are just looking out "for the children", as opposed to the boogeyman Kock brothers.

Kudos to the Koch brothers, who are clearly living rent-free in Harry Reid's head.

Can you post a list of the top 10?

you could take a couple of seconds to Google "Top Political Donors" and pick which source you choose to believe, of course, who knows who is hiding what...:)

Koch brothers aren't even in the top 10 donors. They just happen to be one of the largest conservative donors. Everyone ahead of them donates to progressives. Looks like more smoke screen..
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Interesting - whodathunkit

you could take a couple of seconds to Google "Top Political Donors" and pick which source you choose to believe, of course, who knows who is hiding what...:)

of course I could. But I don't think I would find any list that was accurate given the Koch brothers are able to hide their donations. Fishpart made the statement that they aren't even in the top 10 (and some statement about "smoke screens") so I'm assuming somehow he has was able to find a list.

of course I could. But I don't think I would find any list that was accurate given the Koch brothers are able to hide their donations. Fishpart made the statement that they aren't even in the top 10 (and some statement about "smoke screens") so I'm assuming somehow he has was able to find a list.

Paul, let's say that the Koch brothers are the top donors in the country. Can we agree on two things?

(1) as far as I know, no one is suggesting that their contributions broke any laws.

(2) They are donating money to either advance a cause that they are sympathetic to, or they are trying to buy some influence. This makes them no different than just about everyone else who donates money.

If we agree on those 2 things, why does a United States senator, have any business attacking them, on the floor of the US Senate? Is it the stated business of the Obama administration, to officially wage war on those who disagree with them?

I would expect all Democrats to oppose the Koch brothers. That doesn't mean public officials have any right to use public resources to attack them.

How is that not fascist?

So the so called smoke screen was by Fishpart? Is that what you are saying?

To call that fascist is no better than Macarthyism. Use the word socialism also to be consistant.

of course I could. But I don't think I would find any list that was accurate given the Koch brothers are able to hide their donations. Fishpart made the statement that they aren't even in the top 10 (and some statement about "smoke screens") so I'm assuming somehow he has was able to find a list.

I would bet the IRS has been keeping a close eye on them, wink wink
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Koch brothers aren't even in the top 10 donors. They just happen to be one of the largest conservative donors. Everyone ahead of them donates to progressives. Looks like more smoke screen..
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That's entirely the point, the majority of their influence is completely underground.

They don't just donate to Republicans, the Koch brothers objective is to eliminate progressivism. There's nothing like this within Liberal circles. Yes, Soros donates a lot of money but it's transparent.

I think they've tried hard to keep a very low profile for decades but the visibility of the Tea Party has pulled their actions to the surface.

-spence

So the so called smoke screen was by Fishpart? Is that what you are saying?

To call that fascist is no better than Macarthyism. Use the word socialism also to be consistant.

I'm not saying anything about a smokescreen.

I'm saying that's disturbing to me, that a United States Senator is using his office for the specific purpose of attacking two citizens, who are guilty of nothing more than the fact that they are political opponents who are effective.

That should disturb everyone.

SInce you brought it up, Macarthy called people 'communist' with no evidence whatsoever. We now have all kinds of evidence to claim that Reid is a fascist - he is using his office to attack and bully those who aren't political allies of his.

What do you call that, Paul? Please tell me what you call that?

That's entirely the point, the majority of their influence is completely underground.

They don't just donate to Republicans, the Koch brothers objective is to eliminate progressivism. There's nothing like this within Liberal circles. Yes, Soros donates a lot of money but it's transparent.

I think they've tried hard to keep a very low profile for decades but the visibility of the Tea Party has pulled their actions to the surface.

-spence

Don't you just cringe when you use the word " transparent" ? Meaningless word in your circles.
" their actions". .... So evil when put that way
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.

They don't just donate to Republicans, the Koch brothers objective is to eliminate progressivism. .

-spence

Let's say that's true...why does that deserve any attention on the floor of the US Senate? Spence, why is it the official business of the United States Senate, that the Koch brothers want to end progressivism? Is it a crime for a private citizen to advocate for the elimination of progressivism?

If Reid wants to bash the Koch brothers during a campaign speech or fundraiser, I have no problem with that. He has zero business doing that while serving in his official capacity. The Unites States Government has no business taking the stance that the Koch brothers are any sort of malignant presence.

I guess I missed the proclamation that liberal politicians are now officially maintaining an enemies list?

http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/371275/biggest-all-time-donors-american-politics-are-jim-geraghty

The overwhelming majority is to the Democrats in the list in the article. Don't see Soros either, but you know he donates more than the Koch Bros.

There's nothing like this within Liberal circles. .

-spence

Right, right. The prime-time hosts at MSNBC wouldn't love to bring about the death of conservatism. They have the same mirror-image goal as the Koch brotherts(death of conservatism), they just happen to suck at it.

http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/371275/biggest-all-time-donors-american-politics-are-jim-geraghty

The overwhelming majority is to the Democrats in the list in the article. Don't see Soros either, but you know he donates more than the Koch Bros.

I don't care if the Koch brothers are by far the biggest donors. If they are obeying the law, then their political ideology is not the concern of the United States Senate.

http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/371275/biggest-all-time-donors-american-politics-are-jim-geraghty

The overwhelming majority is to the Democrats in the list in the article. Don't see Soros either, but you know he donates more than the Koch Bros.

Thanks for providing a link. I can't see it on my work computer so I'll have to look later.

http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/371275/biggest-all-time-donors-american-politics-are-jim-geraghty

The overwhelming majority is to the Democrats in the list in the article. Don't see Soros either, but you know he donates more than the Koch Bros.
All this list shows is how some donations are consolidated, large groups, bundling.

It doesn't say anything about total donations, I think it's generally pretty equal DNC/GOP when you average it all out.

It also doesn't say anything about political action outside of what's Federally reported for political purposes - i.e. a lot of money into lobbying

Lastly, are they influencing how money is being used to skew races in violation of state laws? A Koch linked group got nailed for this in California just last fall...follow the money.

-spence

I don't care if the Koch brothers are by far the biggest donors. If they are obeying the law, then their political ideology is not the concern of the United States Senate.

Maybe the law, and the amount of influence lobbyists have, is the problem....

Maybe the law, and the amount of influence lobbyists have, is the problem....

Brian, I agree. If we could get the money out of politics, the PEOPLE would be far better off.

bingo...

the more money you give, the more favors you receive...

Maybe the law, and the amount of influence lobbyists have, is the problem....

Fine. I actually agree with that. But that's not what Reid said...Reid didn't call for campaign finance reform. Reid specified the Koch Brothers. Why? Why isn't Reid concerned about the influence being bought by George Soros or the teachers unions?

If they are obeying the law, then their political ideology is not the concern of the United States Senate.
This really is the problem. At their level you're very influential as to what laws you're required to obey.

Fund think tanks, think tanks write papers, papers become drafts of legislation, lobbyists push for passage of legislation, 527's shape public opinion, legislators respond to pressure...

-spence

This really is the problem. At their level you're very influential as to what laws you're required to obey.

Fund think tanks, think tanks write papers, papers become drafts of legislation, lobbyists push for passage of legislation, 527's shape public opinion, legislators respond to pressure...

-spence

Here's what you keep ignoring. Reid didn't say "we need to limit influence peddling at the highest levels". If he said that, I'd agree with him.

He mentioned the Kochs, and only them, by name. Do they give more money than all of the labor unions put together? No. So why single them out?

During the 2008 primaries, every single Democratic candidate came to speak to Media Matters - clearly a powerful force on the liberal side. How come Reid isn't mentioning their CEO by name?

Here's what you keep ignoring. Reid didn't say "we need to limit influence peddling at the highest levels". If he said that, I'd agree with him.

He mentioned the Kochs, and only them, by name. Do they give more money than all of the labor unions put together? No. So why single them out?

During the 2008 primaries, every single Democratic candidate came to speak to Media Matters - clearly a powerful force on the liberal side. How come Reid isn't mentioning their CEO by name?

Liberals believe the only one entitled to an opinion is a Liberal.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/178743/koch-brothers-spent-twice-much-2012-election-top-ten-unions-combined#
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http://www.thenation.com/blog/178743/koch-brothers-spent-twice-much-2012-election-top-ten-unions-combined#
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Exactly what I was saying so it can't be true…

-spence

Exactly what I was saying so it can't be true…

-spence

The last line in that piece speculates that Koch contributions "may have been unreported".

Once again spence, why isn't Reid At all concerned with anyone other than the Koch brothers?

If Reid doesn't like it, he can either change the law, or ask the Hollywood swells who support dems, to do the same thing. Until then he sounds like a brat throwing a fit, and you sound like an apologist.
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Exactly what I was saying so it can't be true…

-spence

There is that . . . :devil2: . . . and that it is a cut and paste from a liberal rag. That should be enough for a yawn.

Seriously (which is to say I was only joking in a serious way about the above stuff), you touched on what is really at play here when you said that the objective of the Koch brothers Is to eliminate progressivism. In which case I would support them wholeheartedly in their endeavor. But it is highly unlikely that they will succeed no matter how much evil "dark" money they contribute to the effort. The choice of "dark" is lol funny. Ooooo, being "dark" makes it so much more effective. That "transparent" money just ain't as powerful. "Dark" has the power of Siths and Vaders, the power of Satan and the underworld, conjuring up powerful evil forces which can only be resisted by the angelic white knigts of "transparent" progressive money and the uncorruptible saints of the Democrat party like Harry Reid. Actually, Jim's problem would easily go away here if the Kochs would just kick in some coin to Harry Reid. Then he would only say nice things about them. Might even arrange some tax breaks or favors for them.

But, that is the heart of the matter. If their intention is to eliminate progressivism, that is too just and honorable than to dirty it up by bribing both sides for personal gain.

You say there is nothing like this in liberal circles. Yes, there are those who want to preserve the progressive system and eliminate what is left of the constitutional system. And there are many of their donors who openly admit that.

It has been said in this thread that lobbyists and the law (campaign finance?) are the problem. The severest problem with those is at the Federal level. And that is so because the Federal level has become a progressive system, not a constitutional one.

It has been said that money in politics is a problem. Again, that problem is multiplied in a progressive, top down, overly powerful central government. And taking money ($17+ trillion and well over $100 trillion and growing in national debt and unfunded liabilities) out of politics at this stage may be too late. That kind of expenditure and debt by the Federal Government is directly a result of scrapping the constitutional order and transforming it into a progressive one. So progressivism has very deep claws in our body politic, and killing it may well be the only solution. And that may only be possible by a total economic collapse which opens the eyes and minds of enough of the populace to understand that what our government has been transformed into over the last hundred years is the true "dark" money. It is the real Sith and Vader empire. And the Republic we once were may have a chance to reemerge. Or . . . it may just be another crisis the progressive left can not let go to waste and caste us even more solidly into the service of an all powerful State. For our own good.

"Pretense and make-believe are thick in the air in Barack Obama’s Washington, where one’s alignment with the regnant values and priorities — one’s allegiance to, or at the very least one’s acquiescence in, the programs of the environmental lobby, the union lobby, the abortion lobby — acts as a sort of baptism, cleansing the ethical and intellectual impurities"


this thread confirms this statement......Jim didn't ask about the Koch brothers, he asked about Harry Reid's personal attack of them on the Senate floor...the response by the usual suspects is to attack the Koch brothers and ignore Harry Reid's behavior...amazing.... another example of "normalized reality" I guess...

from ..."NPR"

"Another day, another wave of Democratic attacks on the Koch brothers and their Republican allies.

Sen. Harry Reid, the Democratic majority leader, took to the Senate floor Monday to bash the Koch brothers and the GOP, as has become his habit in recent weeks."

Why do Democrats seem to be so fixated on the Koch brothers? First, the Koch brothers are arguably good for fundraising. Dave Weigel of Salon reported that Democratic email pitches that mentioned the Koch brothers generated more donations than those that didn't.

...... it's about defining Republican opponents of Democratic Senate candidates as essentially being stalking horses for the billionaire brothers.

"The signs are that Harry Reid is on the verge of losing his mind now that he's on the verge of losing his majority," said Brad Dayspring, a spokesman for the National Republican Senatorial Committee.

.... it's quite something to see them attacking special interest money when George Soros funds their entire operation," Dayspring said. "Their attacks are laughable; they have to motivate their base in a year when they seem primed to sustain major electoral losses."

Actually, the explanations aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. All of them could actually explain why Democrats will try to keep the Koch theme going through Election Day.


http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2014/03/24/293931459/why-the-democrats-koch-brothers-fixation

"[B]Jim didn't ask about the Koch brothers, he asked about Harry Reid's personal attack of them on the Senate floor...the response by the usual suspects is to attack the Koch brothers and ignore Harry Reid's behavior...amazing.... [/url]

Damn right, Liberals did the same exact thing, when in the 2008 campaign, Obama shot himself in the foot by admitting his goal was to "spread the wealth around." What did the liberals do? Did they explain what Obama meant? Did they try to state why "spreading the wealth around" is actually good policy? No. Instead, they launched personal attacks against the innocent man who asked a simple question, Joe The Plumber. He's not a licensed plumber, he didn't pay his taxes, he beats his wife, he's actually a mass-murderer, blah, blah, blah. Never address the issue at hand. Always divert attention to the evil republicans. I'm not even sure they are consciously aware that they are doing it.

"[B]

"The signs are that Harry Reid is on the verge of losing his mind now that he's on the verge of losing his majority," said Brad Dayspring, a spokesman for the National Republican Senatorial Committee.

l]

Love it! Mwahahahahaha...Reid is coming a bit un-glued, I'd say.