I went to the RI bass meeting at URI last night. I came home tired, frustrated and angry. I need to vent I have three main issues. First I am tired of fishermen who complain of this years bad fishing (in my case I have seen the fishing getting worse every year for the last four years with this being abysmal) and don't do any thing about it. Yet they will bitch about it on the internet or to their buddy's or other people who cant effect any changes. Second am very disappointed at by RISSA leadership who supported the some of the charter guys in advocating a two fish bag limit as opposed to a reduction to one fish. What a sell out the majority of your members are Rec guys not charter guys. Guess the rec guys don't purchase adds in your new letters. Third I am disappointed with some of the charter guys who complain that a reduction in bag limits will stop customers from supporting their businesses if they cant take enough fish flesh. What an incredibly short sided view: fish for bass when there in short supply and when they're gone fish for something else. Oh that worked well for cod. Yeah right the old cod guys fish for bass because the cod are for the most part gone. What will you guys do when bass fishery is closed because there are no bass? Fish for choggies, and spider crabs? In summing up my rant. All of us have to bite the conservation bullet. If we don't we could become like the English. They have magazines like our NEF that have cover shots of happy anglers holding up big skates for the camera. The also have clubs for conger eel and tope (sand shark). If we don't act now and decisively for the bass this could be our future. GOD I HOPE NOT!

I hear ya loud and clear as does just about everyone who views the pages of this website. Unfortuneately, the percentage of all fishermen who come here/give a s**t/undrstand what needs to be done- is only about 15% (my guestimate) The rest just want to fill their freezers with as many fillets as they can catch.

A week ago some big bass pushed in close to shore. Myself and the guys I fish with (among the 15%ers) were among the first to get into these fish. One hispanic dude pulled up in his station wagon, jumped out and proceded to land and 4 large bass up to 45". He put each one in the back of his wagon. When questioned, he pointed at his wife and said, "two are hers". By the time the EP got there (they were called), he was gone with the 4 breeders. The worst thing was his comment when questioned- " I have not caught any fish this year so I am keeping whatever I catch"

The cell phones went into action and soon there were dead fish up and down the rocks.

....A week ago some big bass pushed in close to shore. Myself and the guys I fish with (among the 15%ers) were among the first to get into these fish. One hispanic dude pulled up in his station wagon, jumped out and proceded to land and 4 large bass up to 45". He put each one in the back of his wagon. When questioned, he pointed at his wife and said, "two are hers". By the time the EP got there (they were called), he was gone with the 4 breeders. The worst thing was his comment when questioned- " I have not caught any fish this year so I am keeping whatever I catch"....

Pull out the camera/phone and ask to take picture of him and his fish.
Do it sounding excited about seeing such big fish, then take a picture of his vehicle and license plate.

When he asks why the vehicle picture, tell him "It's so the authorities know who to go after!"

doesn't surprise me..
the charter thing just baffles me - one fish is PLENTY for anyone who wants to go home with some fillets... I bet most of the fools who go home with two fish worth of filets end of throwing most of it out, the bastids!

Oh and over on some sites they are already posting pictures of sea robin and cunner!

Sea Robins are worth .02 to the dealer .ya wanner see how many they still get . 100# of fish == 2.00 WTF
Today they had about a dozen Chogies / of the typical 4"-6" size ><> .I havn,t caught a dozen if you add up the last 5 years .

Its really sad that some of the commercial fisherman feel they have to sell everything they catch . their logic .it all adds up :devil2:

I spoke to guy who mates on a party boat in eastern CT- he said that people leave fish behind on every trip.... they catch (and kill) everything they can, mostly because its the "expectation" that everybody goes home with a lotta fish (even if they don't really want it).

if they were allowed to keep one fish instead of two- most of them would still go. they are there for the "occasion" or the "experience" and will still attend the stag or the retirement party (er whatever)

The irony is, years ago, before there were any bag limits, you got to take home one fish of your choice from 99% of the bass charters in the area. The rest went "to the boat" no matter who caught them. That didn't stop guys like Sabatowski from booking a whole season.

The irony is, years ago, before there were any bag limits, you got to take home one fish of your choice from 99% of the bass charters in the area. The rest went "to the boat" no matter who caught them. That didn't stop guys like Sabatowski from booking a whole season.

That is so true, it was always understood that nobody took home more than 1 fish and when I was a fish packer in Harwichport during college we had three charter boats that unloaded at our place from Saquatucket and Wychmere that went to Nantucket shoals everyday all summer long. It was almost all bluefish and if I told you how FEW bass were packed in July and Aug you would never believe it. But the charters were still booked because people who want to go fishing will go fishing.
Nowadays the captains who say they need to offer 2 bass are just meat wagon drivers hedging the bet in their favor.

We all need to go to one fish per outing, wouldn't mind a size increase too in order to let the 28-32" fish have a chance to breed a couple times first. I agree with the above statements, if it was one per customer they would still absolutely go fishing. Think about the logic, does a person go fishing on a charter just to catch two fish and then finish fishing? Bogus!!

I understand its in vogue to hate on comms and charter guys but some of you guys need to lighten up a little. in all likelihood recs are going to 1 fish and comms are getting whacked 25%. the stocks have not collapsed to the point that they will not bounce back - the sky is not falling - our children and grandchildren will be able to bass fish. I understand that there is an issue and it is being addressed. and for the record - I am friends with a lot of charter capts and many of them accept the 1 fish limit and are taking the long view on this situation

I understand that there is an issue and it is being addressed. and for the record - I am friends with a lot of charter capts and many of them accept the 1 fish limit and are taking the long view on this situation

Thanks Niko - that is encouraging news.
Some of us are old enough to remember the last swoon and how long it took to take meaningful measures - to quote Breaking Bad "we took half measures when we needed full measures" - and in the end were finally handed a moratorium. This time we have a shot at getting well ahead of the snowball - some are just passionate about getting it done sooner rather than later.

I understand its in vogue to hate on comms and charter guys but some of you guys need to lighten up a little. in all likelihood recs are going to 1 fish and comms are getting whacked 25%. the stocks have not collapsed to the point that they will not bounce back - the sky is not falling - our children and grandchildren will be able to bass fish. I understand that there is an issue and it is being addressed. and for the record - I am friends with a lot of charter capts and many of them accept the 1 fish limit and are taking the long view on this situation

you mean the recs. are being hit with a lessor %? I thought it was 25% across the board but your post seems to indicate something different?

And doesn't that 25% "whack" still equate to a 13% increase over the 2013 landing?

I reread the thread and I don't see any hate.:confused:

recs are going from 2 fish to 1 fish- what that equates to percentage wise I have no idea. and I don't think anyone else knows either because no one really knows what recs catch. recs should be pushing for a mandadory reporting system so we can actually know what gets caught. as far as the hate comment - im not speaking of this thread in particular but in general

recs are going from 2 fish to 1 fish- what that equates to percentage wise I have no idea. and I don't think anyone else knows either because no one really knows what recs catch. recs should be pushing for a mandadory reporting system so we can actually know what gets caught. as far as the hate comment - im not speaking of this thread in particular but in general

There is NO way anyone will get recs to report anything with enough compliance to mean anything....not sure charters/head boats and comm are any better!

.not sure...comm are any better!

why not - every pound I sell gets reported. and if its not done timely and accurately I can not get my liscence next year

This year I have to report on-line .. so they get a real good & quick view of all fisheries .
My log equals my sale slips // so it wouldn,t be to difficult for them to have a program ..punch in a license number .. && get the fisherman,s report & any dealers he sells to :fishin:

I do online now too, no more paper thankfully
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

recs are going from 2 fish to 1 fish- what that equates to percentage wise I have no idea. and I don't think anyone else knows either because no one really knows what recs catch. recs should be pushing for a mandadory reporting system so we can actually know what gets caught. as far as the hate comment - im not speaking of this thread in particular but in general

One fish for recs is estimated between 25% and 31% reduction

One fish for recs is estimated between 25% and 31% reduction

I know they have to make an estimate but how the hell do they know that, is there good science to back it up? I agree something has to be done but is that 25%-31% a good estimate.

I can see that for Mass they know what the comm % reduction is because of trip logs and reporting system but from a Rec perspective I just don't see how they know how many fish are being kept by
Recs and what a reduction from 2 to 1 does to a number they don't actually know. It obviously will decrease the total catch but how can they assign that %.

It's better than nothing but I just get nervousness when they toss out numbers on things they can't account for.

I'd also be interested on what the difference is from rec and com dead discards are. I wonder if there is a difference between mortality of Rec release versus com release based off of gear, live vs artificial, experience, single or circle hook vs treble, length of fight, light vs heavy etc.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Though I haven't nearly as much experience as everyone else here, hell, just about everyone here has fished before I was born. I don't know much about commercial but being a "rec" I go by what I see, and frankly all fish species are being abused concerning how they are handled, released (if they ever get released), and kept. Catch and release doesn't faze anyone, it's all about catching and killing. I've seen too many times where the 1 bass of the tide regardless of size is kept by being landed, killed instantly, and driving off like the person just robbed a bank. Concerning release, it's not uncommon to see people yanking out the hook and kicking them back into the water just to die. There really needs to be patrols to fine people from the shore, not just the boat. I'd gladly volunteer if I could. But there are so many facets to the issue it's ridiculous. At this point everything needs to be super strict if this really is going to be bleak. You'll get fined for parking in the wrong spot but not for what you keep
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I was at the RI meeting last week and I chose to support a 25% reduction starting January 1, 2015; 1 fish @ 32”. I wish there were more stringent proposals, however, this was the best case for saving the Striped Bass.

I take 15-20 bass every year. I have imposed my own slot of 36"- 42". The only time I keep 2 fish is if I have one in the cooler and I gut hook another. It's happened twice this year. I fished during the last crash and Mass had a one fish @ 36" min and then a 40" minimum for a few seasons.

As far as Charter Boats are concerned; sell the experience, not the MEAT. Someone at the meeting used similar verbiage and I thought it worked well, so I am re-using it. My business is not related to the fisheries. In 2007 I had over 30 employees, the economy changed; therefore, I had to make changes to my business model. It was not easy, it hurt the pocketbook of my co-workers and me as well. So, I know all about hardship and I truly hope that the Charter Fleet can change for the sake of our most valuable Striped Bass Fishery.

Its not that I blame the commercials for the whole bass situation. I have bad memories of the years before the morritorium. I grew up in a town on the RI Mass border. Every one knew that the fish were in trouble. Yet there were gill nets on every point and not just one but on every conceivable area they could be placed. But You look out to Westport and no gill nets. Point here is that a commercial guy will use every legal method to take the maximum legal catch with no regard to what it does to a fishery. Think of the conditions of most of our fisheries if there is a commercial presence they are in worse shape than they were when you were a kid. Face it the commercial guy's soul purpose is to fill his legal limit or quota no matter the state of the fishery. Unfortunately there are recs who operate this way. Sorry to keep ranting just tired of fishing night after night and catching tiny bass or no bass.
0

Its not that I blame the commercials for the whole bass situation. I have bad memories of the years before the morritorium. I grew up in a town on the RI Mass border. Every one knew that the fish were in trouble. Yet there were gill nets on every point and not just one but on every conceivable area they could be placed. But You look out to Westport and no gill nets. Point here is that a commercial guy will use every legal method to take the maximum legal catch with no regard to what it does to a fishery. Think of the conditions of most of our fisheries if there is a commercial presence they are in worse shape than they were when you were a kid. Face it the commercial guy's soul purpose is to fill his legal limit or quota no matter the state of the fishery. Unfortunately there are recs who operate this way. Sorry to keep ranting just tired of fishing night after night and catching tiny bass or no bass.
0

Patently false. The fluke, sea bass, scup. haddock and even the striped bass fisheries are much better now than they were 30 years ago. The only fisheries that are worse that I can think of is winter flounder and cod.

Patently false. The fluke, sea bass, scup. haddock and even the striped bass fisheries are much better now than they were 30 years ago. The only fisheries that are worse that I can think of is winter flounder and cod.


Maybe, maybe not - where he lives that may be his observed experience.

Can't be serious on the fluke....really ?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It is my experience that the fisheries that you mentioned are in worse shape that they were when I first started fishing. I am in my late fifties and have been fishing ever since I could walk. Where I fish things are not better they have been getting worse. Just my onion

MM- sea bass and scup seem to be in good shape- don't even go there on striped bass - wasn't it '86 when we had a moritoriun- that's 28 yrs ago.

please remember that the current stock assessment is about to be 2 years old...... in that time, NOTHING has been done to slow the mortality on a fishery that was in a precipitous decline. I'm guessing that the next assessment shows we are already wayy below the "pre-moratorium" levels of the 80's.

Do the charter captains need to include themselves and the mate in the "two fish per guy" take-home?

I actually fished a lort more this year than the last few years, and according to my logs, I would have to call it a horrible year. Unless I was in a boat at Block, it was an awful year.

MM- sea bass and scup seem to be in good shape- don't even go there on striped bass - wasn't it '86 when we had a moritoriun- that's 28 yrs ago.

Don, you really think that striped bass fishing is worse today than it was just before the moratorium years?

I would have too agree with AFTERHOURS. I'm a new tackle shop owner, and I cannot tell you how many people came up to me this year who were asking about what has happened to the stripers. We all had different ideas, but the same theme came back over and over again about the over killing of the bass. The proposed regulations will help, but it will be some time before we see the stock where they need to be.

Don, you really think that striped bass fishing is worse today than it was just before the moratorium years?

I'd say on par mike.

I'd say on par mike.

Then we'll just have to agree to disagree. My experience is that it was much worse during the mid 1980s when I was still fishing out of Montauk.

One fish for recs is estimated between 25% and 31% reduction

Its actually a 50% reduction in rec fish taken(from 2 to 1), which is a larger hit compaired to the 25 % commercial if you want to put it into compartmentalized perspective. I feel the tightening around the rec will make the biggest impact with this proposal however i feel they are missing the big picture with all the bass kills down south....

Just my 2 cents.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You have until 5PM today to email the ASMFC your comments about the proposed striped bass regulations.

Send them to: mwaine@asmfc.org

Subject should be: Draft Ammendment IV

Here is what I sent:

I am a Massachusetts resident and an avid salt water angler. I especially target Striped Bass on Cape Cod, and also throughout New England from Maine to Rhode Island. I am a past President of the Massachusetts Striped Bass Association. I consider myself a strong environmentalist and a conservationist and a steward for our natural resources.

I have fished regularly for striped bass for the last 15 years and have seen some peaks and valleys to my observed population. As such I am concerned by the current decreased stocks and especially your data showing the SSB to be declining.

Your data mirrors my observations of stock depletion. The stocks are not gone but they do seem under pressure. As such I support the following

1) Use the 2013 data for the F reference point (let's use the latest data we have).

2) Lets shoot to meet the target in 1 year, not 3 years (the stocks cannot afford to wait)

3) I vote for a 25% reduction in the mortality of the stock and as such agree with the proposal for 1 fish at 32 inches.

4) The commercial quota should be cut 25% just like the recreational mortality.

5) There should continue to be no quota sharing across states.


I have tried to keep my observations and recommendations brief but truly am concerned for the striped bass and prefer somewhat extreme action now versus waiting for more data or doing minor reductions.

Regards,

Bill Prodouz
BProdouz@gmail.com
617 694 0723

Pocasset, Ma 02559

Then we'll just have to agree to disagree. My experience is that it was much worse during the mid 1980s when I was still fishing out of Montauk.

Correct Mike - you couldn't find a bass under 10 pounds for two seasons. Was much worse.

Its actually a 50% reduction in rec fish taken(from 2 to 1), which is a larger hit compaired to the 25 % commercial if you want to put it into compartmentalized perspective. I feel the tightening around the rec will make the biggest impact with this proposal however i feel they are missing the big picture with all the bass kills down south....

Just my 2 cents.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

No it is NOT! For it to be a 50% reduction it would mean that everyone who fishes for striped bass takes home two fish every time they go out. We all know that isn't happening.

No it is NOT! For it to be a 50% reduction it would mean that everyone who fishes for striped bass takes home two fish every time they go out. We all know that isn't happening.

And that means every com guy,limits on every outting.

The only difference is comm is regulated by weights, rec is based upon a fish limit not a weight.

There for you are allowing rec guys to only take a max of 50% less fish.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Of the comm guys that are fishing every available day, 3/4 are limiting out every trip. The other 25 percent are doing 3/4 limit. Then there are the comms who just fish local and casual and don't really get after it. Your thinking is flawed skip, no offence
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Of the comm guys that are fishing every available day, 3/4 are limiting out every trip. The other 25 percent are doing 3/4 limit. Then there are the comms who just fish local and casual and don't really get after it. Your thinking is flawed skip, no offence
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device


None taken that is why its ok to agree to disagree. Untill you force rec guys to report catches the logic is sound.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I've wanted recs to report for a while. I say so at meetings on a regular and get no where. If recs saw what they killed as a group they would #^&#^&#^&#^& themselves
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I've wanted recs to report for a while. I say so at meetings on a regular and get no where. If recs saw what they killed as a group they would #^&#^&#^&#^& themselves
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I agree with you whole heartedly, no argument there what so ever. I would report my 1 28" fish per year with pride cause that's all i catch.

To take this possibly off topic, they should impose stricter punishment on rec guys that take shorts and take over limtes across all species let alone unlicensed. We pay for,licenses now for for both waters there us no reason the green boys are not crawling all over certain places....
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Having enforcement for both com's and rec's that is tough enough to make everyone's cheeks pucker up is what we need. Up and down the coast if people know there is a good chance they will get caught and get more than a slap on the wrist (fines, confiscation of gear/vehicles, revocation of licenses, jail time) then at least part of black market/illegal catch will be reduced. Having penalties that are just a cost of doing business is not enough.

Untill you force rec guys to report catches the logic is sound.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I understand what you are getting at, but from a perspective that looks at actual numbers of fish killed, it is in reality not a 50% rec reduction. The goal of the regulation is not a 50% reduction in rec harvest. The actuality is the critical part from a perspective of re-restoring :smash: the stocks. When you say it is "actually a 50% reduction in the rec fish taken" that is factually not true, logic and opinions aside. Example, if no rec ever kept 2 fish, changing the regulations from 2 fish per day to 1 fish per day would have zero effect, not 50%. What needs to be done is real and actual reductions in the number of bass killed.

A substantial reward ($500-1,000) for reporting restaurants who buy illegal bass
would quickly get these restaurants all busted.

Dont think for a second that a dishwasher, bus boy, waiter, making peanuts wouldnt secretly rat out his boss for an easy $1,000

How about recs who use ultra light gear and fight a fish for a long time and release the fish that eventually dies, or target small fish on blitzes that may have post mortality (most comms wouldn't waste time on the small blitzing fish). What about a comm who trades up for bigger fish after they have a limit, or a comm who gaffs a fish that's an inch or two short and "releases it" lots of moving parts here and finger pointing. EVERYONE who fishes has an impact (some more, some less) even guys who are 100% catch and release have an impact with foul catches, post mortality etc). We need to get past the finger pointing, look at the facts and look ourselves all in the mirror to find something that works for everyone and makes everyone accountable. Most experienced anglers don't use trebles, most inexperienced recs use them a lot.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

And that means every com guy,limits on every outting.

The only difference is comm is regulated by weights, rec is based upon a fish limit not a weight.

There for you are allowing rec guys to only take a max of 50% less fish.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

No, but on an overall basis the commercial sector catches all of its quota every year (or almost all of its quota). How the commercial quota is doled out varies from state to state, but all states now require commercial fish to be tagged, so the accounting for the commercial quota is pretty good.

On the recreational side, the MRFSS statistics are what generated the 25-31% reduction for a one fish limit, because we all know that not everyone limits out, every time out. Now you may or may not believe the MFRSS statistics, but that's all we have. No matter how you cut it a reduction of the recreational limit from two fish to one fish cannot be a 50% reduction in mortality.

I've wanted recs to report for a while. I say so at meetings on a regular and get no where. If recs saw what they killed as a group they would #^&#^&#^&#^& themselves
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I agree 100%
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

the asmfc says the rec harvest is at 26.4 million pounds annually. and the comm harvest 2.87 million pounds

Commercials say what you want. Your whole purpose is to make money by killing the big breeders. As a rec I can and have changed my methods and style to reduce accidental mortality as I don't keep fish. As a commercial you can make no such claim. Furthermore, there is an issue of fairness. The commercials are a far smaller group than the recreational sector in terms of numbers. Right? Why is it fair that such a small number of people are allowed to take so many fish. I don't get it because you shell out for a commercial licence you are entitled to take many times my two fish in mass. It a public resource no one person should be entitled to a bigger share of it than another individual. What do you do to justify you share of the resource? Look at a logging company. Atleast when they clear cut a stand of trees they replant seedlings. What do you guys do? Your right I am bitter. I am sick and tired of people who people who continue to destroy a resource that we should conserving.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

the asmfc says the rec harvest is at 26.4 million pounds annually. and the comm harvest 2.87 million pounds

How many comms are there and how many recs are there?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Point is why is one com entitled to take more fish than one rec fisherman? Just because it's legal dosent make it right.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

so by that logic there should be no commercial fishing for any species because they are the peoples fish. and I don't have a right to utilize a resource and earn a portion of my livelihood doing so. and as far as changing my methods to reduce accidental mortality - I've switched to using circle hooks exclusively. i participate in beach cleanups, herring counting, run cleanups, and planting eel grass. so don't sit there and tell me I don't do anything but use up the resource because I do. I live it and do more than most. I comm fish for 2 species and rec fish for just about everything that swims in the new England salt and consider myself a responsible steward of the sea. I support the 25% reduction and voted for it at the last msba meeting because I think there is a problem and this is our chance to help turn it around but no I do not think the bass stocks are on the verge of collapse

Point is why is one com entitled to take more fish than one rec fisherman? Just because it's legal dosent make it right.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Last time I checked we live in a free country and it's our free will to choose what we do for a living or part of a living. Some of us become doctors and lawyers and some of us become fisherman. With that being said, I agree 100% we need regulations to protect our resource so the sooner we get our heads out of our asses and realize were both part of the problem the better off we'll all be.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

the asmfc says the rec harvest is at 26.4 million pounds annually. and the comm harvest 2.87 million pounds

Is this just in MA ? because i doubt rec guys are taking 26 million pounds with out reporting data in Mass alone ? are they counting paid charters as rec's . just license guys? I am not against either group but as we point fingers at each other whos to blame nothing changes for the better

Comm 2013 Quota: 997,869 pounds 2014 Quota: 1.15 million pounds whats 2015 going to bring

look at herring rec guys cant get them but Commercial boats can
because of a word game ocean and river 2011 they took 200 million pounds same fish For the 2013-2015 fishing seasons, the Commission set the ACL at 237.7 million pounds, an 18% increase from 2010-2012 limits

I am for commercial slot limit 33in to 42 over that mandatory release and rec 28 42 over that mandatory release as well Nation Wide

unless your a lobbyist with deep pockets public hearings are a farce
just an illusion to make the common man or women fell relevant and that they have a voice in the process . I wish I felt different but its how I see it . show up or send an email they both carry equal weight (NONE)

those are coastwide numbers wdmso. no one can take river herring though the large trawlers do get some river in the mix. the comm bass quota I believe has been the same for the last 20 years - 1.15. if we go over 1 year it gets deducted off the next season - which is why 2013 is at 997. I think a lot of guys lump rod/reel comms into the same category as draggers, gill netters, purse seiners etc. which I don't believe is an accurate portrayal. rod/reel is a relatively "clean" fishery with very little bycatch

look at herring rec guys cant get them but Commercial boats can
because of a word game ocean and river 2011 they took 200 million pounds same fish For the 2013-2015 fishing seasons, the Commission set the ACL at 237.7 million pounds, an 18% increase from 2010-2012 limits


Just to be clear, river herring (alewife and blueback herring) are a different species than Atlantic herring. And rec guys can and do catch Atlantic herring from boats and shore. During the winter there isn't much else to fish for from shore.

Commercials say what you want. Your whole purpose is to make money by killing the big breeders. As a rec I can and have changed my methods and style to reduce accidental mortality as I don't keep fish. As a commercial you can make no such claim. Furthermore, there is an issue of fairness. The commercials are a far smaller





group than the recreational sector in terms of numbers. Right? Why is it fair that such a small number of people are allowed to take so many fish. I don't get it because you shell out for a commercial licence you are entitled to take many times my two fish in mass. It a public resource no one person should be entitled to a bigger share of it than another individual. What do you do to justify you share of the resource? Look at a logging company. Atleast when they clear cut a stand of trees they replant seedlings. What do you guys do? Your right I am bitter. I am sick and tired of people who people who continue to destroy a resource that we should conserving.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Don't hate the player
Hate the game
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Most experienced anglers don't use trebles, most inexperienced recs use them a lot.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

???????????:confused:

???????????:confused:

I'll rephrase, "Most comms don't use trebles, most inexperienced recs use them a lot."

Point is what impact does this have to released fish. Although a Rec using trebles might be releasing a fish, the gear used could end up increasing post mortality in the end...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

the asmfc says the rec harvest is at 26.4 million pounds annually. and the comm harvest 2.87 million pounds

More like 6 million, I would think. The MD and MA quotas are over 2 million all by themselves. NY is around half a million. Then you have VA and NC, and RI with a small quota.

And that means every com guy,limits on every outting.

The only difference is comm is regulated by weights, rec is based upon a fish limit not a weight.

There for you are allowing rec guys to only take a max of 50% less fish.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

NY regulates its commercial fishery on numbers, not pounds, too. Each commercial angler is given a set number of tags based on his/her historical landings, and NY has a comm slot limit. What people have to understand is that coast-wide, the commercial quota is spread out across the population. MA puts a premium on harvesting big fish with a 34" minimum size. 34" may be the maximum allowed size under a slot limit. MD allows the harvesting of 18" fish in the bay.

MD allows the harvesting of 18" fish in the bay.

Is some of the harvesting in MD net or is it all Rod and Reel now?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

gillnet is considered to be the dominant gear used to harvest comm bass. what percentage it is compared to rod/reel I don't know

I understand its in vogue to hate on comms and charter guys but some of you guys need to lighten up a little. in all likelihood recs are going to 1 fish and comms are getting whacked 25%. the stocks have not collapsed to the point that they will not bounce back - the sky is not falling - our children and grandchildren will be able to bass fish. I understand that there is an issue and it is being addressed. and for the record - I am friends with a lot of charter capts and many of them accept the 1 fish limit and are taking the long view on this situation

I'm just going to use this as my response - it will keep John from having to edit anything else I'd like to post.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

cmon jay - lets hear it. when was the last good flame war this place had. it was fun back then

So comm guys can whine about a 25% reduction while the poor rec angler suffers at a 50% pace?

stir the pot dangles

chris was once the master.

It's all fuzzy math when you are dealing with an unknown.........
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I thought about this thread when I got a bass on the first cast this evening while I was throwing at breaking Albies.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Edited - dont post hammered.

Fishing bliss is catching both hands with your ass.
Niko would be happy foul hooking man ass
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

hey trophy husband - I know you're bummed out because it's rainy and you cant play disc golf or whatever the hell it is you do all day. but if u were nicer to me maybe i'd bring you crabs and let u drive me to the albies

Edited - dont post hammered.

Hilarious......
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I was out on the charlestown breachway today at daybreak with ranger Joe. The fishing was well not happening at all. 3 hours of casting practice.
We got to talking and he said he started fishing there in the 60's and there was fish everywhere (big fish) as he said. Then the 70's come along and people started killing everything. On to the 80's and if you were lucky enough to catch a bass of any size people would come and ask what kind of fish it was because no one knew what there were.
90 ' s come around and the bass started to come back and uneducated people started killing again. 2000's the bass start to be less and less. He said I lived the first crash and I see it happening again.

I hope not but time will tell.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I don't want to be an alarmist, but I fear the numbers are worse than we realize.... there are vast areas on the coast that are devoid of bass. the last stock assessment is approaching 2 years old and I think the decline has been precipitous in the interim.


time will tell- but I think we're in for a long dry spell.

how does "sea-bass.com" sound??

gillnet is considered to be the dominant gear used to harvest comm bass. what percentage it is compared to rod/reel I don't know

Gill nets and pound traps up north. NC may still allow haul seining. Not sure. Thankfully, the movement to restore it on Long Island never prevailed, despite all of Billy Joel's benefit concerts.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

What people have to understand is that coast-wide, the commercial quota is spread out across the population. MA puts a premium on harvesting big fish with a 34" minimum size. 34" may be the maximum allowed size under a slot limit. MD allows the harvesting of 18" fish in the bay.



The fishery is set up to exploit what fish are available to the comms in their area.....

you better believe that the MD guys would love to be catching 34" fish.....

allows the harvesting of 18" fish in the bay.

You do know that reason they set that 18" limit was to allow the harvest of male fish, that don't get too much bigger than that and DO NOT migrate out of the bay?

yes I do know that.... it also allows them to fully exploit their fishery, and I also that enforcement is a joke down there and poaching is rampant. the fishery in the Cheaspeake is possibly the most perilous of all

yes I do know that.... it also allows them to fully exploit their fishery, and I also that enforcement is a joke down there and poaching is rampant. the fishery in the Cheaspeake is possibly the most perilous of all

Maryland dnr is actually pretty active. We would regularly get checked when I was down there. Way more than up here. The tilghman island boys poach, but they get caught and prosecuted. No fishing midnight to 5 or 6 am. Closed seasons to protect breeding( used to be anyway). In much of the bay, a 32" fish is big. 18" isn't unreasonable. Slot would make sense though. The winter slaughter in VA and NC is/was a problem, but the sorry state of striped bass lays in the bloody hands of rec fisherman from the mason dixon line north as much or more so than anywhere.

yes I do know that.... it also allows them to fully exploit their fishery, and I also that enforcement is a joke down there and poaching is rampant. the fishery in the Cheaspeake is possibly the most perilous of all

MD is the only state that I know of that has actually jailed striped bass poachers. Go look it up. MD DNR is very actively enforcing their regs, much more so than MA, RI and NY.

many of you guys stated that before the first crash you couldnt find a bass under 15 pounds. the lack of school bass was alarming. While im in the group of 1 at 36 I have to say im pleasantly surprised by the amount a school bass i have seen this fall. Narr Bay and to PJ has had acres of 15-25" bass mauling bait this fall.

That being said this was not a great bass season for me.

many of you guys stated that before the first crash you couldnt find a bass under 15 pounds. the lack of school bass was alarming. While im in the group of 1 at 36 I have to say im pleasantly surprised by the amount a school bass i have seen this fall. Narr Bay and to PJ has had acres of 15-25" bass mauling bait this fall.

That being said this was not a great bass season for me.

They are from the 2012 (maybe it's 2011) which is the last big year class in the Chessie.

many of you guys stated that before the first crash you couldnt find a bass under 15 pounds. the lack of school bass was alarming. While im in the group of 1 at 36 I have to say im pleasantly surprised by the amount a school bass i have seen this fall. Narr Bay and to PJ has had acres of 15-25" bass mauling bait this fall.
That being said this was not a great bass season for me.


Friday afternoon there were thousands of busting bass, blues, and albies from Castle Hill to the Rockpile (oooooh spotburn) and not a single surf guy on some of the most easily accessible ground on the coast.

I think if more people fished rather than sit around complaining on their keyboards, they might find out the world doesn't suck so much.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

many of you guys stated that before the first crash you couldnt find a bass under 15 pounds. the lack of school bass was alarming. While im in the group of 1 at 36 I have to say im pleasantly surprised by the amount a school bass i have seen this fall. Narr Bay and to PJ has had acres of 15-25" bass mauling bait this fall.

That being said this was not a great bass season for me.

You're right - its encouraging to see small bass. But its not about a short stretch of good fishing which were seeing now. This happened last October also for a week to 10 days... then it as nothing for weeks. You have to look at trends over the course of the past few seasons and see it spread out through the entire range of the fish. Been some comments lately about more bass than I've ever seen - beware anyone that tries to paint a rosey picture of the future based on what they see on their electronics. Think big picture.

Friday afternoon there were thousands of busting bass, blues, and albies from Castle Hill to the Rockpile (oooooh spotburn) and not a single surf guy on some of the most easily accessible ground on the coast.

I think if more people fished rather than sit around complaining on their keyboards, they might find out the world doesn't suck so much.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

i was out friday and saturday morning. I couldnt believe that no guys were fishing the shoreline. I saw maybe 2 surfcasters and a couple bucketheads. albies were basically jumping onto shore. i was surprised.

I'm just going to use this as my response - it will keep John from having to edit anything else I'd like to post.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Hahaha

Friday afternoon there were thousands of busting bass, blues, and albies from Castle Hill to the Rockpile (oooooh spotburn) and not a single surf guy on some of the most easily accessible ground on the coast.

I think if more people fished rather than sit around complaining on their keyboards, they might find out the world doesn't suck so much.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I know a lot of guys that fish hard and fish well all up and down the coast, that know how, where, and when to fish and the catch numbers have gone down considerably.

Friday afternoon there were thousands of busting bass, blues, and albies from Castle Hill to the Rockpile (oooooh spotburn) and not a single surf guy on some of the most easily accessible ground on the coast.

I think if more people fished rather than sit around complaining on their keyboards, they might find out the world doesn't suck so much.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

One good day a good fishery does not make.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I absolutely agree with you Eben, and I made my comments to the ASMFC supporting a 25% reduction year 1 and going to 1 fish (a move that will potentially cost me $, but its what I believe is necessary for the long term success of our fishery).
My overriding point is this - its become en vogue to bitch and complain about how #^&#^&#^&#^&ty bass fishing is, and anyone that is still doing well and having success is some kind of short sited monster. There is alot of great fishing going on right now, and I think too many people would rather sit home and complain than go out and see for themselves.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I absolutely agree with you Eben, and I made my comments to the ASMFC supporting a 25% reduction year 1 and going to 1 fish (a move that will potentially cost me $, but its what I believe is necessary for the long term success of our fishery).
My overriding point is this - its become en vogue to bitch and complain about how #^&#^&#^&#^&ty bass fishing is, and anyone that is still doing well and having success is some kind of short sited monster. There is alot of great fishing going on right now, and I think too many people would rather sit home and complain than go out and see for themselves.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You really believe that there is a significant percentage of your charters that pay the day or half day rate ONLY to catch 12 bass instead of 6 bass?

For what it's worth, I've been out. It mostly has sucked with pockets of OK fishing mixed in. Same story, lots of smaller fish...

You're on point Jay. I've had over a 100 bass in the last week from the surf in my general area, and I'm a very average surf fisherman nowadays. I've seen 1 other surf guy in that time
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[QUOTE=RIROCKHOUND;1053613]You really believe that there is a significant percentage of your charters that pay the day or half day rate ONLY to catch 12 bass instead of 6 bass?


"Significant" - not really, and I've been telling guys that are worried about that they are better taking a small short term hit (if there is one) than getting crushed long term if the fishery goes to hell. We'll lose some, but not as many as some guys are worried about.

I also do pretty well with commercial fishing, so this will effect my bottom line - but again, I'd rather the short term hit than screw things up for the longer term.

But hey, according to some jackholes on this thread, I'm some fishing killing monster out to destroy everything in my path because people pay me to take them fishing and I sell some fish as well. I wonder if some people realize how offensive they really are when they start throwing out generalizations about groups of fisherman?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Fished last night one tap. Water was rough too much moon but that was the first sign of a fish I have seen in a week (three fishing expeditions). I have fished this area for forty years it shoud be killer at this time. SOMETHING IS WRONG!

Fished last night one tap. Water was rough too much moon but that was the first sign of a fish I have seen in a week (three fishing expeditions). I have fished this area for forty years it shoud be killer at this time. SOMETHING IS WRONG!

Just so I'm not confusing people, are you the guy that was hiring Rudy from the SWE to guide you down in Little Compton a few years ago?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[QUOTE=RIROCKHOUND;1053613]You really believe that there is a significant percentage of your charters that pay the day or half day rate ONLY to catch 12 bass instead of 6 bass?


"Significant" - not really, and I've been telling guys that are worried about that they are better taking a small short term hit (if there is one) than getting crushed long term if the fishery goes to hell. We'll lose some, but not as many as some guys are worried about.

I also do pretty well with commercial fishing, so this will effect my bottom line - but again, I'd rather the short term hit than screw things up for the longer term.

But hey, according to some jackholes on this thread, I'm some fishing killing monster out to destroy everything in my path because people pay me to take them fishing and I sell some fish as well. I wonder if some people realize how offensive they really are when they start throwing out generalizations about groups of fisherman?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device


More like a fish killing neanderthal than monster....as far as I can tell!! :jump1:

Just so I'm not confusing people, are you the guy that was hiring Rudy from the SWE to guide you down in Little Compton a few years ago?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

What difference would that make?

[QUOTE=RIROCKHOUND;1053613]You really believe that there is a significant percentage of your charters that pay the day or half day rate ONLY to catch 12 bass instead of 6 bass?


"Significant" - not really, and I've been telling guys that are worried about that they are better taking a small short term hit (if there is one) than getting crushed long term if the fishery goes to hell. We'll lose some, but not as many as some guys are worried about.

I also do pretty well with commercial fishing, so this will effect my bottom line - but again, I'd rather the short term hit than screw things up for the longer term.

But hey, according to some jackholes on this thread, I'm some fishing killing monster out to destroy everything in my path because people pay me to take them fishing and I sell some fish as well. I wonder if some people realize how offensive they really are when they start throwing out generalizations about groups of fisherman?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Jay, you have thick skin so suck it up. At least you are a full timer and respect the fishery.Haters gonna hate so don't be offended by generalizations. The part-timers have more of a negative effect on your bottom line than anybody on the computer ever will.

How about all the poor eels being killed...nobody seems to care about them.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

How about all the poor eels being killed...nobody seems to care about them.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

we should join PEW. declare the oceans MPAs and mothball our fishing gear

we should join PEW. declare the oceans MPAs and mothball our fishing gear

Not a good idea Paul, mothballs are toxic so that would be a whole other topic of discussion.....
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I know there are PLENTY of commercial guys on here.... thats part of what I like about the discussions on this board. we gotta remember to see the forest for the trees though- one area of "blitzing fish" hardly means the fishing isn't in trouble.

My first post here, so bear with me.
Short and sweet.
Recs...beach and boat
Headboats ( comm ) and patrons ( recs )
True commercials with licences to net or hook
Charters (comm ) with patrons (recs)
Charters with special tags ( different in each state )
And of course, the poachers
All of us have a stake in this getting fixed. Status quo will not get us there, nor will bogus "crumb like offerings" from ASMFC meant to appease us and not offend the commercials who have the best lobbies.
I went to my local meeting and heard a few commercials, lot's of recs and most of the charters all supportive of cutting the bag limit and quotas and increasing the size to 32". I also heard some ridiculous garbage from a few commercials who clearly don't care.
The funny thing is that the poachers did not show up to voice their opinion !
Like Bobber points out, there are too many one off occasions which the status quo guys rely on. One captain stood up a said there was a multiple acre body of large bass 45' think (down) on the Stellwagen Bank and another even larger body btween two buoys in the Race-BIS stretch. Maybe, but I have my doubts.
Everyone is catching less fish. Even the commercials are unable, through no lack of effort, to meet their quotas. Charters are simply seeing less action because no one wants to spend hundreds of dollars for a boat ride and some exercise. I have heard, second hand, that a few known poachers did not even put their boats in for the spring run. And yes a few recs can tell you they had a good night here and there, but not the usual 5-6 good nights past seasons held.
And with all the known issues affecting striped bass there is no protection being planned for the spawing periods in the Chessy or the Hudson which make up 95% of the breeding fish, not to mention that the minimum size limit in those locations are ludicrous.
All said, the plans proposed are said to have a 50% chance of success. That is scary.

My first post here, so bear with me.

And with all the known issues affecting striped bass there is no protection being planned for the spawing periods in the Chessy or the Hudson which make up 95% of the breeding fish, not to mention that the minimum size limit in those locations are ludicrous.
All said, the plans proposed are said to have a 50% chance of success. That is scary.

You need to do a little research. There are numerous restrictions in the rivers feeding the Chessie during the spawning season. In fact in most areas it is a total closure. You are correct however, that are no restrictions in the Hudson river. As for "ludicrous" size restrictions, keep in mind that after the spawn all mature females, which are the larger fish, leave the Chessie, leaving behind only the smaller males (which don't migrate). So if the size limit in the Chesapeake was 30 inches there would be no legal sized fish to be caught. Something like 95% of the fish caught in the Chesapeake after the spawn are the smaller males.

Joe,the quota in Mass was filled in 21 days if i am not mistaken.and that was with only 2 days a week and 15 fish.iam not saying that things are fine and dandy just a fact.i know in NY that going back 7 or 8 years ago only half of the tags were filled,not because of a lack of fish. most guys that hold tags in NY are too busy with their other commercial interests too fish for bass.i know personally i will keep the same number of fish each season regardless of any changes in size or limits.if most other rec do the same will we see a decrease in the number of dead fish.? i think the only way to decrease the number of dead fish is to regulate the recreational fishery the same as the commercial fishery some how there has to be a set number of dead fish in a season

Not a good idea Paul, mothballs are toxic so that would be a whole other topic of discussion.....
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Thats funny right there.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Yhe reason that the mass quota was filled so quickly was tha a tremendous amount of fish were taken from block and sold against the mass quota. Which is a violation of game law. According to an acquaintance who is a commercial cuttyhunk and devils bridge off the vineyard (traditional areas of heavy commercial bass fishing have been cleaned out. Yes there are some bass at those places but not the bounty that was once at cutty or the vineyard.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

We are all part of the solution and Mass is no exception. Everyone spins it there own way. If quotas are met at "illegal" locations, or outside the coastal limits then that needs correction. Thank you MakoMike for the correction on the Chessy size / spawn limitation but a 16 or 18" fish will never get into the spawn and it's one time dead when caught. They will remain locals until they reach a certain size and then join the migration. Not sure what that size is but it seems 18" it's not. I feel the pain regarding what's left post spawn in the Chessy but those fish need to move and grow and become spawners not dead fish if the population is to once again become healthy. If we have a good year class ( not great ) like 2011 is supposed to be, then how will that help long term if many are never enter the spawning bio mass ? What about 2012 and 2013 ?...not good.
Not meaning to be a pain, but it's a legitimate question and if there is some other science that I'm needing to understand please share.

the quota would still be readily met without the block/eez/off day fish. it just would last a few days longer. what percentage of the quota are you under the impression is filled illegally? it's not nearly as high as some people make it out to be. the vineyard has sucked for bass for many years in general. there were bass in spots this year that were not tradition bass spots.

We are all part of the solution and Mass is no exception. Everyone spins it there own way. If quotas are met at "illegal" locations, or outside the coastal limits then that needs correction. Thank you MakoMike for the correction on the Chessy size / spawn limitation but a 16 or 18" fish will never get into the spawn and it's one time dead when caught. They will remain locals until they reach a certain size and then join the migration. Not sure what that size is but it seems 18" it's not. I feel the pain regarding what's left post spawn in the Chessy but those fish need to move and grow and become spawners not dead fish if the population is to once again become healthy. If we have a good year class ( not great ) like 2011 is supposed to be, then how will that help long term if many are never enter the spawning bio mass ? What about 2012 and 2013 ?...not good.
Not meaning to be a pain, but it's a legitimate question and if there is some other science that I'm needing to understand please share.

What you don't seem to understand is two things. 1) Male bass NEVER leave the Chessie and 2) male bass rarely exceed 24 inches.

It is true that male bass in the Hudson river stock do migrate, but that doesn't change the point. The "problem" with getting a couple of good year classes is not that there aren't enough spawning fish, there are plenty. Many more than the SSB that brought the population back the last time. The problem is that we haven't gotten the weather required for a successful spawn/fry survival.

What you don't seem to understand is two things. 1) Male bass NEVER leave the Chessie

I think you mean the majority of male bass don't leave. The data on that isn't even conclusive. It is just known that post spawn, the vast majority of fish in the bay are males.