Sources are reporting that the Governor of RI is leaning on RI DEM to allow 2 Striped Bass for anglers on board a for hire trip.

Its time for RI residents to contact your Governor and let her know you want 1 fish @ 28" for all. Don't waste your time if you are not a RI resident. It's obvious the RI For Hire Fleet has been working on their Governor BUT it is very possible to educated the Governor on the will of the people, especially how controversial this issue has become. Governors don't like fish controversy.

I suggest the following messages:

1 regulation for all citizens, Fair i fair. Why is she supporting less fish for RI residents? Why risk further restrictions when the industry made plenty of money under the 1 @ 28" regulation? Whys is she ignoring the clear will of the majority of RI residents?

CALL YOUR FRIENDS AND FISHING BUDDIES WITHIN RI-POST EVERYWHERE--SPAM THE WORLD

Link to the page to submit a form email:
http://www.governor.ri.gov/contact/

Phone number to the office is: 401-222-2080

Will do - thanks for the heads up.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y250/thefishingfreak/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2015-02-27-22-31-52_zps5fbtwfzw.png (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/thefishingfreak/media/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2015-02-27-22-31-52_zps5fbtwfzw.png.html)
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

As long as they read them the message will get through

That was easy

Another letter sent.

done.

they do read, tally and if you read through the public comment letters(just got done reading through all of them)..they highlight your sentiment and other pertinent info so this does have a great effect....the meeting and final decision is Monday March 2nd...please get your comments to the GOVERNOR ahead of the meeting........


I was struck reading through the comments that the common sentiment among RI recs and some long time charter captains was a recognition of the decline, concern for the future and desire for simple and consistent rules governing the Striped Bass, didn't see that in the opposing views....I did find some letters from the mythical charter client who will go elsewhere or not fish(not sure where as Ct and Mass are leaning heavily 1 fish all modes) if they can't keep their 2 bass per angler on a RI trip.....I was befuddled that an individual would either not take or relocate a vacation with family and/or friends over the ability or "perception" of 1 fish or the fillets of 1 fish...REALLY? that's a deal breaker?...pretty sure you can still catch as many as you want.....I'm finding less and less sympathy for the argument all the time...some other interesting stuff in there if you have the time to read but please get your comments to the GOVERNOR today and tomorrow

MEETING NOTICE
March 2, 2015 – 6:00 PM
URI Narragansett Bay Campus, Corless Auditorium
South Ferry Road, Narragansett, RI

Do you really think a charter angler really wrote that letter?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

some just had a first name and no additional info like address etc...so maybe :laughs:...that's was a funny reply though, thanks for making me laugh

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLnCcTUIybg

Who makes the FINAL decision?
Does the state recommend to the asmfc and THEY decide?
Or does each state simply inform the asmfc of its "recommendation"(decision)
Just curious
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

RI Marine Fisheries Council Meets Monday, Janet Coit Director
Rhode Island DEM makes the final decision for RI following that meeting....I believe that is accurate

I sent a letter to the Governor and one to Janet Coit.

Who makes the FINAL decision?
Does the state recommend to the asmfc and THEY decide?
Or does each state simply inform the asmfc of its "recommendation"(decision)
Just curious
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

RI DEM decides from the list of options already submitted and approved by the ASMFC.

FYI the governor appoints the director / which our new gover G/R just reappointed her about 10 days ago . OH Janet Coit [Director\ :hidin:

letter sent ,

Scott where did you go to read other comments ????

Email sent
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Done

letter sent ,

Scott where did you go to read other comments ????

they are included in the E-packet in the DEM website...enjoy...I like the ones that say they'll lose interest in the fishery if they can't kill two bass and won't come to RI...
hey life long fisherman, we have nice golf courses and strip clubs too!

directly- http://www.dem.ri.gov/programs/bnatres/fishwild/mfminits/030215e.pdf

all- http://www.dem.ri.gov/programs/bnatres/fishwild/mfagidx.htm

Lost intrest is good actually what a dumb thing to say...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Lost intrest is good actually what a dumb thing to say...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

here's the thing...some of these charters advertising leads clients to believe that it's what they should expect...these pics are from "1" RI charter boat's website offering "Full day, half day and evening charters are available for up to six passengers." also "Rhode Island's Finest"...there are no pic of people having fun reeling in fish, certainly no release pics ..just holding dead ones on the dock or back of the boat..in many cases piles of dead fish in the back of the boat....if this is how you present your business, the folks that you attract are going to expect this and will be disappointed if you don't produce this...that is the great fear that many of them have, they measure their ability by the frequency that they put the keep limit of any species on the deck....funny as the site has a link to a letter that the owners penned regarding the SB debate in which you find this quote..."You recreational fisherman should be ashamed of yourselves."

Was sarcasm scott, i agree whole heartedly with your above statement.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Was sarcasm scott, i agree whole heartedly with your above statement.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

got that....I'd argue that they are likely losing business from fishermen, potential clients that may be turned off....and in many cases they've created the monsters that they are now begging an exception for

got that....I'd argue that they are likely losing business from fishermen, potential clients that may be turned off....and in many cases they've created the monsters that they are now begging an exception for

Why don't you just worry about yourself😊
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Why don't you just worry about yourself😊
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Why don't you... Oh wait.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

If a bussiness needs special regulations to stay in bussiness (for hire sector two fish VS one fish for other recreationals) it needs to evolve or die. The government should not change the rules to keep them in business. Should the government enact regulations to keep tv repairmen and blacksmiths occupied? I don't think so evolve or die
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

If a bussiness needs special regulations to stay in bussiness (for hire sector two fish VS one fish for other recreationals) it needs to evolve or die. The government should not change the rules to keep them in business. Should the government enact regulations to keep tv repairmen and blacksmiths occupied? I don't think so evolve or die
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

When regulations change , and especially when there are different options that heoretically have the same net effect , the government often takes into account how will it affect businesses . Good or bad .
This thread is about RI, which I admit I'm no expert , but be careful throwing out blanket condemnation of those you may no little about .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

The reductions asmfc are taking now are in reality around 18.5% there will be more cuts after the next stock assessment, start evolving
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Also, mako mike said the same thing in 2013 thread, that even if all states went to 1 fish, we'd still be looking at closed seasons
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

By evolving I mean this. If a charter operator is just selling dead fis he or she is doomed to fail. Charter boat operators must learn to sell the experience of fishing.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Its so unbelievable that some view selling a striped-bass charter trip as "a fun, adventurous experience" as a challenging uphill battle.

its too damn easy... requires such a minimal shift in marketing. minimal.
I already have several strategies in mind (if i were a charter captain). How did I come up with these ideas? BY THINKING LIKE A CUSTOMER instead of captain.

I'm not really sure anymore if these discussions we are having are indicative of most charter captain's view, or of the views of a very few particular individuals who have lost hope and have already bought into their future failure before trying.

Attitude is everything.

A call girl sells the experience.
A hooker sells the meat.
Just saying. ....☺
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

RI Marine Fisheries Council Meets Monday, Janet Coit Director
Rhode Island DEM makes the final decision for RI following that meeting....I believe that is accurate


correction..............the council will vote(tonight hopefully) and I believe the Director has the ability to either accept or override

Why don't you just worry about yourself��
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I'm worried about the fishery Buck... you know, if the road near your house that was 50 mph had become congested over time and it reached a point where a meeting was called to address the problem and it was determined that everyone was going to drive 25 mph on that stretch of road to address the issue ....but one user group, let's say taxis, were arguing that their out of town clients whom they shuttled to and from the airport would never accept going only 25 because they were always in a hurry needed at least the expectation of the ability to get their destination faster or they wouldn't use the service causing great economic impact to the region and putting some of them out of business. Also that, through acceleration equivalence, "for-hires" actually be would be much safer than recreational drivers because they are on the road more naturally making them better drivers, so for them, 50 is not much different than 25 . Would you be on board with that argument?


my personal belief is that the move to 1 fish is long overdue...and that it should always be 1 bass going forward...this is our best opportunity and we won't get another for some time.......we know that the fishing pressure will continue to increase, the technology will continue to improve and the bass population is not exactly exploding...they are quickly and easily exploited wherever they show up(shore and sea)...it's harder and harder to calculate what the effect will be in the future when schools get hammered relentlessly as has been pointed out but we know it can't possibly be a positive....as a Rhode Islander, I don't want out of state clients of and in taxis going 50 mph down the road by my house marked 25 mph for everyone else, they can drive 50 down their own street in their own town and cause whatever problems that ensue...I'm not going to their state to try to dictate what their laws and regulations should be or threatening not to visit if they don't accommodate me by treating me differently than their own residents......not hard to understand is it?

I'm worried about the fishery Buck...you know, if the road near your house that was 50 mph had become congested over time and it reached a point where a meeting was called to address the problem and it was determined that everyone was going to drive 25 mph on that stretch of road to address the issue ....but one user group, let's say taxis, were arguing that their out of town clients whom they shuttled to and from the airport would never accept going only 25 because they were always in a hurry needed at least the expectation of the ability to get their destination faster or they wouldn't use the service causing great economic impact to the region and putting some of them out of business. Also that, through acceleration equivalence, taxis actually be would be much safer going 50 because they are on the road more than recreational drivers so for them, 50 is not much different than 25 safety wise. Would you be on board with that argument?

Charter boats are not the problem Scott… You guys are driving up the wrong road.
I guess you got to take some sort of a stand to feel good and this is the battle a lot of you chose to fight. Do what makes you happy but it most likely isn't going to make any difference except make it a little not more difficult for guys that are already having a difficult time.
As far as selling the experience,...believe me, everyone of the charterboats tries very hard to sell the experience each and every trip . Those that don't are not in business for long. If you do multi species charters such as cod , tuna and shark you need an offshore boat. I larger boat. These charterboats are not comparable to skiffs and inshore boats and thus do not offer the same experience as inshore flyfishing with one or two clients nor do our customers want that same experience.
Some of the comparisons to tarpon fishing in the Florida Keys are silly.
I'm not even sure if you can eat Tarpon if you wanted to.
Anyways buddy, I guess I'll just watch this play out and we will deal with it like any other regulation that hurts business. And we have been handed a lot of those.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Charter boats are not the problem Scott…
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

agreed(not the "only" problem as all user groups are "the" problem), they are, or can be, part of the solution....there is only 1 thing being voted on toight re:striped bass and that's option #1 vs option#2...there are plenty of problems, this just happens to be the one being addressed currently and charter boats(or their clients) are the only user group lobbying for an exception

Just read a commentary in today's ProJo oped entitled "SOS for Striped Bass in RI" by Charlie Gregory. The article supports one fish at 28" for all recreational fishermen, and explains why in layman terms. Good to see a favorable comment in the press for the general public.
Thanks, Charlie.

Charter boats are not the problem Scott… You guys are driving up the wrong road.
I guess you got to take some sort of a stand to feel good and this is the battle a lot of you chose to fight. Do what makes you happy but it most likely isn't going to make any difference except make it a little not more difficult for guys that are already having a difficult time.
As far as selling the experience,...believe me, everyone of the charterboats tries very hard to sell the experience each and every trip . Those that don't are not in business for long. If you do multi species charters such as cod , tuna and shark you need an offshore boat. I larger boat. These charterboats are not comparable to skiffs and inshore boats and thus do not offer the same experience as inshore flyfishing with one or two clients nor do our customers want that same experience.
Some of the comparisons to tarpon fishing in the Florida Keys are silly.
I'm not even sure if you can eat Tarpon if you wanted to.
Anyways buddy, I guess I'll just watch this play out and we will deal with it like any other regulation that hurts business. And we have been handed a lot of those.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device


Curious as to how bad it's going to have to be before you change your stance?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I'm not . I'm for a reduction equal to yours . 25%
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Here is the response I received from the letter I wrote to the RI Governor:

Dear Paul,



Thank you for contacting Governor Raimondo’s office regarding striped bass regulations. We appreciate you taking the time to reach out.



Striped bass are very important to Rhode Island and our fishermen. Governor Raimondo has been seeking input from the Department of Environmental Management on the issue, and understands the significance of the Department’s pending regulatory decision. DEM has received many public comments, which have been incorporated into the public record. Yesterday the RI Marine Fisheries Council met to formulate a recommendation to the DEM Director. The Director will then make the final decision.



Thanks again for reaching out. As always we welcome your thoughts, ideas, and concerns and encourage you to share them with us.



Sincerely,





Brad Inman

Director of Constituent Services

Office of Governor Gina M. Raimondo

State House, Room 115

Providence, RI 02903

(401) 222-2080

everyone got the same form letter back ..........they could have sent it to us last week / this descion was decided way before any of the so called meeting for the general public .. the 5-3 vote by the council all that did was make Coits life easier // if it went the other way .. she would have had to either vetoed it or looked for another job :bshake:

everyone got the same form letter back ..........they could have sent it to us last week / this descion was decided way before any of the so called meeting for the general public .. the 5-3 vote by the council all that did was make Coits life easier // if it went the other way .. she would have had to either vetoed it or looked for another job :bshake:

I agree Mike but ya gotta try.

iI know Paul . we all tried .......... but MONEY talks & B ull S hit walks :yak5:

I know many of you are frustrated, rightly so. But our arguments and public comments were not good enough to turn the vote - consider that the three members who voted to oppose 2 fish were two recreational fishermen and a Rod & Reel commercial fisherman. And one of those two recs appeared that he supported 2 fish but without the capt and mate allowed to keep any. I don't believe he or the R&R Comm would have supported one fish - they were looking for the compromise formerly endorsed by RISAA. So basically we had only 1 member, Rich Hittinger, supporting 1 fish. The five members who voted to support two fish were a member of the Party & Charter boat association, a Professor of Fisheries, an Environmental Engineer, a Shell Fisherman, and a Gill Netter. At one point of the meeting the Gill Netter looked at me and asked, "How many people would come to RI to just catch one fish?" Normally council members are not permitted to have exchanges with the audience. I couldn't believe he asked the question - so I responded, "Plenty". Then a Charter Captain from the audience looked at me and asked me, "Would you pay me $700 to catch one bass". I was shocked and would have loved the opportunity to answer but thought better of it.
Crazy night.

At one point of the meeting the Gill Netter looked at me and asked, "How many people would come to RI to just catch one fish?" Normally council members are not permitted to have exchanges with the audience. I couldn't believe he asked the question - so I responded, "Plenty". Then a Charter Captain from the audience looked at me and asked me, "Would you pay me $700 to catch one bass". I was shocked and would have loved the opportunity to answer but thought better of it.
Crazy night.

DZ, not that it makes any difference but I smirked with that one.

I was noting though that when the board asked for a motion, and both Richards raised hands to make a motion, the one chosen was the Richard of the RI Party / Charter group supporting the motion for 2 fish. If the council chair had asked the other Richard, the one supporting the Rec position, the motion *might* have been the 1 fish, which would have needed a second and the follow on debate. That other possible motion would have probably failed anyway due to the makeup of the council.

I know many of you are frustrated, rightly so. But our arguments and public comments were not good enough to turn the vote - consider that the three members who voted to oppose 2 fish were two recreational fishermen and a Rod & Reel commercial fisherman. And one of those two recs appeared that he supported 2 fish but without the capt and mate allowed to keep any. I don't believe he or the R&R Comm would have supported one fish - they were looking for the compromise formerly endorsed by RISAA. So basically we had only 1 member, Rich Hittinger, supporting 1 fish. The five members who voted to support two fish were a member of the Party & Charter boat association, a Professor of Fisheries, an Environmental Engineer, a Shell Fisherman, and a Gill Netter. At one point of the meeting the Gill Netter looked at me and asked, "How many people would come to RI to just catch one fish?" Normally council members are not permitted to have exchanges with the audience. I couldn't believe he asked the question - so I responded, "Plenty". Then a Charter Captain from the audience looked at me and asked me, "Would you pay me $700 to catch one bass". I was shocked and would have loved the opportunity to answer but thought better of it.
Crazy night.

The law wouldn't have been to allow you to CATCH one bass. It would be to KILL one bass. These stupid bastards cannot differentiate between catching and killing. I assume that catch & release doesn't compute in their myopic brains.

Then a Charter Captain from the audience looked at me and asked me, "Would you pay me $700 to catch one bass".

He meant kill obviously. I would have responded that if I was trying to get my monies worth of meat, I would go to the store.

He meant kill obviously. I would have responded that if I was trying to get my monies worth of meat, I would go to the store.

To some, me included there is a certain amount of satisfaction in catching it ,cleaning it ,grilling it ,and eating it
It's also nice to know how fresh the fish you are eating are and not some striper, as you would say, that's been baking in the sun for two days waiting for a commercial day
Don't be so damn dismissive
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

One fish no way, but two fish is so totally worth it
/sarcasm
What a bunch of BS
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

To some, me included there is a certain amount of satisfaction in catching it ,cleaning it ,grilling it ,and eating it
It's also nice to know how fresh the fish you are eating are and not some striper, as you would say, that's been baking in the sun for two days waiting for a commercial day
Don't be so damn dismissive
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

The charter captain is the one who made the asinine comment about 1 bass & $700 as if you don't get your $ worth at 1 fish but that extra fish makes the difference.

I'm just curious as to what you guys put as the percentage of dead fish for caught and released striped bass?
Especially you guys that use live bait ?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I can not honestly say, with any certainty, how many fish that are released
end up dying... no one can.

But I can however say, with certainty, that 100% of the fish that are not released end up dying.

That is a statement that simply can not be argued...

I can not honestly say, with any certainty, how many fish that are released
end up dying... no one can.

But I can however say, with certainty, that 100% of the fish that are not released end up dying.

That is a statement that simply can not be argued...

From what I've read it's between 8 and 15% for all hooked stripers ...that's no small figure when you think of the millions of fish caught and released by recreational anglers. We are talking in the hundreds of thousands of killed fish . If you're really worried about your children growing up in a world with no striped bass maybe you should quit fishing for them and go catch scup.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

15% is still less than 100%
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

To some, me included there is a certain amount of satisfaction in catching it ,cleaning it ,grilling it ,and eating it
It's also nice to know how fresh the fish you are eating are and not some striper, as you would say, that's been baking in the sun for two days waiting for a commercial day
Don't be so damn dismissive
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Doesn't cleaning one fish satiate that craving?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

15% is still less than 100%
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

there is no 100% percent it's 85%
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Doesn't cleaning one fish satiate that craving?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Good point
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I can not honestly say, with any certainty, how many fish that are released
end up dying... no one can.

But I can however say, with certainty, that 100% of the fish that are not released end up dying.

That is a statement that simply can not be argued...

But you don't catch any fish bc you don't move off your rock.:rotf3:

there is no 100% percent it's 85%
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
No....dead fish are 100% dead....
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

From what I've read it's between 8 and 15% for all hooked stripers ...that's no small figure when you think of the millions of fish caught and released by recreational anglers. here's an idea, we could limit the number of recreational licenses issued and that would force recs to fish on charterboats, the only place you can fish without buying a license, helping improve the business environment of the for hires and the "client" can then keep two fish that they never would have been able to keep if they did get a license like the average schmuck....they can still fish as much as they want...it will just be REALLY expensive, like parts of EuropeWe are talking in the hundreds of thousands of killed fish . If you're really worried about your children growing up in a world with no striped bass maybe you should quit fishing for them and go catch scup.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

you are pretty smart Buck, this is a great way of looking at it, our effect as individuals, personal responsibility....

the number used is actually 9% for mortality,

I'm sure that you'll agree that both private rec and for hires experience mortality and I'd argue it's much more difficult to effectively release fish from a boat than from shore....gaffs, live lining pogies, dropping eels, trolling umbrella rigs(multiple fish) all more popular with the boat crowd(they aren't throwing plugs or bucktails from a party boat and they don't gaff every fish from shore)

here's the part regarding the charter that you may or may not like or accept but the guy driving the boat is responsible for every fish caught or killed from his boat....the fact is that if he was not driving the boat none of those fish would be killed or caught, none of his clients would take a fish if he didn't drive them there and bait their hook on that trip and thus impact the population ....

I don't know what you think the average charter boat takes per year in terms of bass but can was use low numbers and say 4 of the maximum 6 clients get two fish, discount the mate and captain fish for now...that's 8 fish per trip, can we use 100 trips, had a "full time" captain say he did 100 last year and he said that was low due to weather. That's 800 fish (conservatively). If any of these numbers seem out of line I understand...I'm not an "expert"...just like to ask obvious questions. Can we also assume a mortality for released under size and over limit fish? Can we assume that they catch don't keep at least as many as they keep? Call the mortality 10% to keep the numbers easy...80 fish mortality...that's 880 fish very conservatively over the season that this one captain has overseen the taking of, or in my opinion"is responsible for" as I pointed out, they never would have been caught by those individuals without him driving the boat.

I'm going to use myself just to be as accurate as possible it obviously varies from one angler to another, I fish more than most average private/shore recs...(I love catching, filleting and grilling fish by the way), I'll include the bass that I kept last year as well as all of the bass that the people that I fished with last year in the totals and I'll overestimate regarding catch(that''s what fishermen do) and mortality...... although I do place more emphasis each year learning and improving catch techniques and release methods to improve this and many folks that I fish with do also.

So, I don't know exactly how many trips last year but if I use 100 bass landed that would be high. I didn't keep any bass but three friends that I fish with did. One was big and the other two were 28-30 inches, I can't remember the last time I fished with someone who took 2 bass. so that's 3 bass...plus mortality 10% that 10 fish...13 bass

so it would take me
and the folks that I fished with last year... approx. 68 years to remove the number of fish that the guy above did with his boat...

and here's the thing, those guys probably won't keep any next year...many private and shore recs ARE moving to other species (scup) and methods including freshwater, other sports even, I talk to them every day, many private/shore recs move in and out of the sport and are anything but consistent in their impact

if you want to compare on an individual basis, sure, there are more private and shore recs but the impact on an "individual" basis is not even close and I think most look it or compare on an individual basis

additionally, your average shore, private rec is far less likely to be locating and taking the large breeders with a few exceptions whereas they are targeted by the experienced and more accessible to boats in general....the impact mushrooms when you include experience, electronics, actual time on the water...a guided charter allows someone who would likely never impact the fishery on their own, to do it in ways that most other anglers either can't or won't...that to me is a special responsibility that the captain bears many times a season...

you are pretty smart Buck, this is a great way of looking at it, our effect as individuals, personal responsibility....

the number used is actually 9% for mortality,

I'm sure that you'll agree that both private rec and for hires experience mortality and I'd argue it's much more difficult to effectively release fish from a boat than from shore....gaffs, live lining pogies, dropping eels, trolling umbrella rigs(multiple fish) all more popular with the boat crowd(they aren't throwing plugs or bucktails from a party boat and they don't gaff every fish from shore)

here's the part regarding the charter that you may or may not like or accept but the guy driving the boat is responsible for every fish caught or killed from his boat....the fact is that if he was not driving the boat none of those fish would be killed or caught, none of his clients would take a fish if he didn't drive them there and bait their hook on that trip and thus impact the population ....

I don't know what you think the average charter boat takes per year in terms of bass but can was use low numbers and say 4 of the maximum 6 clients get two fish, discount the mate and captain fish for now...that's 8 fish per trip, can we use 100 trips, had a "full time" captain say he did 100 last year and he said that was low due to weather. That's 800 fish (conservatively). If any of these numbers seem out of line I understand...I'm not an "expert"...just like to ask obvious questions. Can we also assume a mortality for released under size and over limit fish? Can we assume that they catch don't keep at least as many as they keep? Call the mortality 10% to keep the numbers easy...80 fish mortality...that's 880 fish very conservatively over the season that this one captain has overseen the taking of, or in my opinion"is responsible for" as I pointed out, they never would have been caught by those individuals without him driving the boat.

I'm going to use myself just to be as accurate as possible it obviously varies from one angler to another, I fish more than most average private/shore recs...(I love catching, filleting and grilling fish by the way), I'll include the bass that I kept last year as well as all of the bass that the people that I fished with last year in the totals and I'll overestimate regarding catch(that''s what fishermen do) and mortality...... although I do place more emphasis each year learning and improving catch techniques and release methods to improve this and many folks that I fish with do also.

So, I don't know exactly how many trips last year but if I use 100 bass landed that would be high. I didn't keep any bass but three friends that I fish with did. One was big and the other two were 28-30 inches, I can't remember the last time I fished with someone who took 2 bass. so that's 3 bass...plus mortality 10% that 10 fish...13 bass

so it would take me
and the folks that I fished with last year... approx. 68 years to remove the number of fish that the guy above did with his boat...

and here's the thing, those guys probably won't keep any next year...many private and shore recs ARE moving to other species (scup) and methods including freshwater, other sports even, I talk to them every day, many private/shore recs move in and out of the sport and are anything but consistent in their impact

if you want to compare on an individual basis, sure, there are more private and shore recs but the impact on an "individual" basis is not even close and I think most look it or compare on an individual basis

additionally, your average shore, private rec is far less likely to be locating and taking the large breeders with a few exceptions whereas they are targeted by the experienced and more accessible to boats in general....the impact mushrooms when you include experience, electronics, actual time on the water...a guided charter allows someone who would likely never impact the fishery on their own, to do it in ways that most other anglers either can't or won't...that to me is a special responsibility that the captain bears many times a season...

Interesting spin Scott thanks for sharing.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Interesting spin Scott thanks for sharing.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I agree
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I agree
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

happy to work with your numbers if you have any, it's a perspective, we all look at the fishery differently, that is obvious, you are quick to discount any perspective that disagrees with your's without providing much evidence...are you incapable of understanding how an average rec might look at or see this? :) I was told by a captain that if you aren't one, you don't know sh$#....is that how it works? can't figure out if I'm an "expert" or I "don't know sh%$" :rotf2:

happy to work with your numbers if you have any, it's a perspective, we all look at the fishery differently, that is obvious, you are quick to discount any perspective that disagrees with your's without providing much evidence...are you incapable of understanding how an average rec might look at or see this? :) I was told by a captain that if you aren't one, you don't know sh$#....is that how it works? can't figure out if I'm an "expert" or I "don't know sh%$" :rotf2:

I understand how an average rec looks at this Scott . You either believe that allowing charterboats to keep 2 fish at 33 inches is not the equivalent of one at 28,and we can agree there will be more discarded fish from charterboats if it is one at 28, ( that one fish now becomes a trophy fish) .
Or you're just angry that somebody might get more fish than you.
Or you really believe that solving the perceived crisis for striped bass will come from limiting charterboats to one fish per angler .
And you either believe that one at 28 inches will not hurt charterboats or you simply don't give a #^&#^&#^&#^&
BTW I saw mortality rates between 9% and 30% I picked low middle for my argument you chose as low as you could get
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I understand how an average rec looks at this Scott . is what follows your "understanding"?

You either believe that allowing charterboats to keep 2 fish at 33 inches is not the equivalent of one at 28, it's not, you should reread what you just wroteand we can agree there will be more discarded fish from charterboats if it is one at 28, ( that one fish now becomes a trophy fish) . shame on them

Or you're just angry that somebody might get more fish than you. not angry, just concerned about the fish, not who gets what


Or you really believe that solving the perceived crisis for striped bass will come from limiting charterboats to one fish per angler . I believe that limiting all rec anglers to 1 bass now and into the future will help ensure and maintain a healthy population


And you either believe that one at 28 inches will not hurt charter boats or you simply don't give a #^&#^&#^&#^& I just have not seen any actual evidence that this is the case(the first part, if I didn't give a bleep I wouldn't bother)


BTW I saw mortality rates between 9% and 30% I picked low middle for my argument you chose as low as you could get I used the exact number the was used for the meeting the other night by the Fisheries Council ...9%
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

you can divide my numbers in half for the charter and double the others if it makes you feel better :btu: what's that, approx 30 years?...

all this keeping in mind that plenty of charters up and down the coast are doing fine and believe they will continue to do fine at 1 bass per client




you know I love you....right?

you can divide my numbers in half for the charter and double the others if it makes you feel better :btu: what's that, approx 30 years?...

all this keeping in mind that plenty of charters up and down the coast are doing fine and believe they will continue to do fine at 1 bass per client

There are different types of charters that fish different waters with different techniques with different clientele and with different size boats. One of my hunting partners is a flyfishing guide. Believe me we don't think the same on this issue.
He only fishes on bluebird days , In shallow water and trailers his boat to the fish. Apples to oranges.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

There are different types of charters that fish different waters with different techniques with different clientele and with different size boats. One of my hunting partners is a flyfishing guide. Believe me we don't think the same on this issue.
He only fishes on bluebird days , In shallow water and trailers his boat to the fish. Apples to oranges.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

so different "clientele" should get different bag limits depending on what they "want" ? ohhh...that's right...immigration.... that is the gist of the argument that you've finally arrived at....there are some clients(if it's really them)...read the letters, who claim they will lose interest in the fishery during their occasional trips to the state if they can't kill two bass(or have the perception of the ability to do so I guess) and for that reason we should create an exception for the entire sector creating all sorts of havoc ....good thing we all don't think that way.....you are right...I don't give a #^&#^&#^&#^& about them....

I emailed the Governor yesterday about this topic. I got the form letter reply from Brad Inman. I mentioned to the Governor that should RI adopt the 2 fish exemption for the for hire community; I would no longer be fishing in RI, I am a CT resident. I may only be one angler but for 4 of the past 5 years I have let a week long trip to Block Island with anywhere from 4-14 anglers staying at different house rentals on the island. Between the rental, the ferry cost, car ferry, gas, food and on island spending; that is a fairly decent loss for the State. RI will also lose my money from summer camping trips to Burlingame. Again not a huge impact, but I guess I will either keep that money local or divert it to MA instead.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Thanks ScottW for your perseverance in these threads.

I can only speak for myself. I do care about the striped bass and
really the whole fishery. My fish counts were wildly low this past
year. Not just striped bass but bycatch like bluefish and fluke.

I am a fisherman and without the fish, I feel like a lost child. I fish
mostly from the surf. Last year many of my outings were just
casting practice.

I live in western CT and often travel to fish. I fish in RI, CT, MA, and NY.
My motivation to do these trips is shot. It also means I will not be
spending my money in any of those states.

Many many fisherman travel to fish.

I am not a political person. I don't spend any time or effort in
anything government related. I guess you could say that I don't
have the patience for it, but am really thankful for those who do.

Reading the outcome of the legislation is really upsetting to me.
Even the short sightedness of a 1 fish limit. Really it should be zero.

The government agencies that manage our environmental resources
have failed us all. The fact that their opinion can be swayed by
commercial beings just shows how corrupt and unqualified they really
are at managing natural resources. Shouldn't environmental
resource concerns be separated from the economy?

I am limiting my fishing this year. I might only fish a couple of weeks
in the surf. Really, I feel the couple trips I am planning are more out
of nostalgia than I expect or even care to catch fish. My local waters
in the western sound have been a ghostland, and I will not be fishing
them at all this year. I intend to not target the spring holdovers,
migration, or spawn. I am trying my best not to be a hypocrite, but
at the same time...I just want to fish.

Regarding the charter captains out there and your concern for
personal economics. Any sort of acceleration in the thinning of the
fishery stocks is bound to catch up with you.

You may have the attitude....who cares about the surfcaster. Well, I
tend to hire charters when I go on my outings. If there are no fish in
the surf, I am not making trips and I am not hiring you. I am not
spending money in your hotels and restaurants. I am not upgrading
or buying any more tackle and supporting your local business.

I fished the week during the MV derby and also fished Block Island
and Montauk during the fall run. These places were ghost towns.
Void of fish, void of surfcasters. Just two years ago, montauk was
crawling with thousands of surfcasters. I love fishing Newport, but
didn't bother last year because reports were so bad.

The economic impact related to the slow of the fishery is so much
larger than some stupid argument between whether a boat can keep
one or two fish. Really, we should be in moratorium for the sake of
the fish, the sport, and the local business.

We should be fighting together for this fishery not against eachother.

so different "clientele" should get different bag limits depending on what they "want" ? ohhh...that's right...immigration.... that is the gist of the argument that you've finally arrived at....there are some clients(if it's really them)...read the letters, who claim they will lose interest in the fishery during their occasional trips to the state if they can't kill two bass(or have the perception of the ability to do so I guess) and for that reason we should create an exception for the entire sector creating all sorts of havoc ....good thing we all don't think that way.....you are right...I don't give a #^&#^&#^&#^& about them....

You have no way of telling if the options that are on the table are going to create any havoc except for maybe here. ! Your emotions are getting the best of you😊
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Question for you Buck ?
We're you fishing for bass in the early to mid 80's ?
Just curious.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Question for you Buck ?
We're you fishing for bass in the early to mid 80's ?
Just curious.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I am betting not. If he were he would have a different take on the situation. While not as bad as then, we are surely headed in the direction of a moratorium. My money is on 2017.

Eerily familiar isn't it Paul ?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Question for you Buck ?
We're you fishing for bass in the early to mid 80's ?
Just curious.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Yes I had a boat in Sesuit .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Eerily familiar isn't it Paul ?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I can hear the footsteps.

You have no way of telling if the options that are on the table are going to create any havoc except for maybe here. ! Your emotions are getting the best of you��
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

it's got nothing to do with emotion Buck, you can dismiss it that way but the...

Chairman of the ASMFC pleaded with the participants and the end of the meeting in Alexandria for simple and consistent measures and further urged neighboring states to work together toward that end, this after...

The Law Enforcement folks urged and recommended simple and consistent regulations as the most effective measures regarding enforcement and angler compliance, this after....

the Science community urged simple and consistent regulations which would result in better data collection and further stated that mode splits and slot limits negatively affect the data and result in less reliable numbers, this after,,,

RI announced at their meeting prior to the ASMFC meeting that the reason option#2 was necessary was eliminate the possibility of "havoc" on the water..."we can't have boats fishing next to other boats under different regulations" that was out of the mouth of the Charter Rep Bellevance....I asked....."you will have boats fishing next to boats under different regulations..lots of them"....his response after much consternation was "I should have said, within the mode".....he meant..within the mode(for hire) and between states, ignoring that "within the state between modes" he was creating an even bigger problem numbers wise ....."havoc" to accommodate the above mentioned "who claim they will lose interest in the fishery during their occasional trips to the state if they can't kill two bass(or have the perception of the ability to do so I guess) and for that reason we should create an exception for the entire sector creating all sorts of havoc"

of course now...ironically...we have RI heading for a mode split...Mass leaning heavily 1@ all modes as well as CT and am I hearing NY?

talk about looking like fools....


what exactly is your evidence that it won't cause problems?:huh:


btw...an addition to the option#2 language for RI was mandatory reporting

check out this article regarding reporting by NY and others

"NMFS estimates that anglers fishing from for-hire boats in the State of New York landed 234,650 striped bass in 2014. At the same time, the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation reports that Vessel Trip Reports filled out by the state’s party and charter boats say that just 12,309 striped bass—a mere five percent of the landings estimated by NMFS—were landed by their customers in that year.

http://oneanglersvoyage.blogspot.com/

there will be more discarded fish from charterboats if it is one at 28, ( that one fish now becomes a trophy fish) .
there will be more discarded fish from shore/private boats now that it is one at 28, ( that one fish now becomes a trophy fish) .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

can we believe that this occurs among the same people with 2@ currently? maybe not as frequently as it would at 1@ but with 4-6 people on a boat you've got a good number of fish to go through at 1@ before you start "high grading".... is that what they call it? if you start "high grading" after 4-6 bass on the boat(plus the captain and mate(s) fish) so that's what? 6-8 bass....you're kind of a &^%$

had a someone tell me recently that on a tog trip last fall they had 36 tog on the boat and a guy caught a 37th which was very big...an argument ensued over whether he should or could keep the 37th...regulations will never fix stupid or greedy...............the mouthpiece for the RI charters is arguing that most of our stocks are "rebuilt" and they are looking for higher limits and fighting 1@ for bass and I'd heard desiring mode splits on other species as well, I'm convinced that if there were no bag limits they would fish till the boat was full or the fish stopped biting in many cases....you'd think that they would be happy that they can put their clients on fish and keep their rods bent with relative ease...but nope...it's all about how many they can kill...maybe if we eliminate bag limits all together we can discourage "high grading"

You win Scott. Your right . If charter boats get 2@33 the fisherie will cease to exist and all hell will break loose on the waters 😊 . It will be too confusing to the ever vigilant EPO's . Lmao
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

This could all have been avoided if the asmfc had some balls, did their job, and said: 1@ 28" for everyone. No eceptions. " instead they sent the states home with a menu of voodoo math options to fight it out.
Thanks asmfc... You really did a great job!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You win Scott. Your right . If charter boats get 2@33 the fisherie will cease to exist and all hell will break loose on the waters 😊 . It will be too confusing to the ever vigilant EPO's . Lmao
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

didn't say that...you are letting your emotions get the best of you

didn't say that...you are letting your emotions get the best of you
Definitely the emotions because there's no logic to be seen.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

This could all have been avoided if the asmfc had some balls, did their job, and said: 1@ 28" for everyone. No eceptions. " instead they sent the states home with a menu of voodoo math options to fight it out.
Thanks asmfc... You really did a great job!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Its not ASMFC's "job" to dictate to the states what they must or cannot do.

Its not ASMFC's "job" to dictate to the states what they must or cannot do.

I couldn't tell... Seemed like they prescribe what they are supposed to do

Except with zero accountability
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Important meeting going on right now in Mass where they are making a decision to recommend 1 or 2 fish bag. If Mass go's 1 RI will be the only NE state to recommend 2 fish. It will be our last chance to convince Janet Coit to not take the RIMFC recommendation because there would be no perceived advantage in other NE states over RI. Stay tuned.

Just for the record if Ma goes 1 then I agree RI has to go 1 too . The charter industry in my area will be toast anyways . Guess we can all put our permits in use and fish commercial to make up for lost revenue .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

From MSBA's Facebook page


Patrick Paquette

14 mins
.
MSBA Govt Affairs Update: The MA Marine Fisheries Commission just voted UNANIMOUSLY to accept the Directors recommendation to set 2015 striped bass regulations: ONE FISH @ 28 inch minimum size FOR ALL RECREATIONAL ANGLERS. This includes passengers on a for hire vessel. Thank You to all who supported the effort to bring reasonable regulations to striped bass fishing in MA.

Just for the record if Ma goes 1 then I agree RI has to go 1 too . The charter industry in my area will be toast anyways . Guess we can all put our permits in use and fish commercial to make up for lost revenue .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

What makes you so certain you are going to loose business ? What's the difference between 1 or 2 fish per person??? People pay for the sizzle not the steak ;)
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

What makes you so certain you are going to loose business ? What's the difference between 1 or 2 fish per person??? People pay for the sizzle not the steak ;)
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

We do a great job with the sizzle . Even have a grill on board and cook an amazing lunch. Let's hope we can do it the same with out the steak . Believe me I hope you guys are right .
I won't let the clients who told us they were going to wait to see on the decision before they booked a trip get me down
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Could always move ops to RI I hear the block is off the hook
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

When you do a charter , do you do target multi species ? That's the sizzle IMHO. A little of everything. Ok, so a person can't take 4 bass filets home, but he can take 2 bass filets , some fluke filets a few whole sea bass and a couple blackfish. That's an experience!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Could always move ops to RI I hear the block is off the hook

LOL

When you do a charter , do you do target multi species ? That's the sizzle IMHO. A little of everything. Ok, so a person can't take 4 bass filets home, but he can take 2 bass filets , some fluke filets a few whole sea bass and a couple blackfish. That's an experience!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

We do but as you know ground fish is done for us . Fluke are not easy to come by in our waters ( we are north of the cape ) pollack is an option but that's another 20 mile run most times . Shark is usually our combo , sometimes tuna .
Most times we at least offer a fantastic whale watching.
The boats south do have many more options. That's one of the reasons our association was pushing for two fish at 33
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

From MSBA's Facebook page


Patrick Paquette

14 mins
.
MSBA Govt Affairs Update: The MA Marine Fisheries Commission just voted UNANIMOUSLY to accept the Directors recommendation to set 2015 striped bass regulations: ONE FISH @ 28 inch minimum size FOR ALL RECREATIONAL ANGLERS. This includes passengers on a for hire vessel. Thank You to all who supported the effort to bring reasonable regulations to striped bass fishing in MA.

This is our opening to get RI 2 fish recommendation overturned. Get ready for one last campaign.

From MSBA's Facebook page


Patrick Paquette

14 mins
.
MSBA Govt Affairs Update: The MA Marine Fisheries Commission just voted UNANIMOUSLY to accept the Directors recommendation to set 2015 striped bass regulations: ONE FISH @ 28 inch minimum size FOR ALL RECREATIONAL ANGLERS. This includes passengers on a for hire vessel. Thank You to all who supported the effort to bring reasonable regulations to striped bass fishing in MA.


Good

hope it's enough to help what is left of the stripers

This is our opening to get RI 2 fish recommendation overturned. Get ready for one last campaign.

puts Ms. Coit in a bit of a pickle, we were told that the reason they(RI) needed the #2 option going down to Alexandria was because they couldn't have boats(within the mode) fishing side by side under different regulations...well......

RI charters original argument was that if they could only keep 1 while neighboring states were allowed to keep 2, that would be unfair and cause people to book charters in other states.

Well, now the scenario has reversed itself...

We will now see how concerned RI is with "fairness", since if their original argument is valid, that means anglers from neighboring states will flock to RI to book charters for their 2 fish, thus making the unfair advantage (originally feared by RI) a reality for neighboring states.

Hmmmm.... one might almost think this ended up exactly as intended

DZ sorry but I give up ......... the fix is/was in ............GR told Coit she wanted to take care of the charter boats & captains/mates ...........word filtered down to the DEM committee ...........&& you get a 5 - 3 vote . which is 100% again the majority of people that were asked & also people that spoke at the hearings & sent e-mails .

Its all about the money & again RI will look like A/H,s

WTF do we have the Striper as out state fish . there won,t be any ><><><

RI charters original argument was that if they could only keep 1 while neighboring states were allowed to keep 2, that would be unfair and cause people to book charters in other states.

Well, now the scenario has reversed itself...

We will now see how concerned RI is with "fairness", since if their original argument is valid, that means anglers from neighboring states will flock to RI to book charters for their 2 fish, thus making the unfair advantage (originally feared by RI) a reality for neighboring states.

Hmmmm.... one might almost think this ended up exactly as intended

NY, which is the main competitor to RI charter boats is going with a 2 fish limit (for everyone).

Isn't the second fish supposed to be 43 inch and up ?
Or am I confusing the hodgepodge of various rules and regs ?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Email sent to Governor GR.

still work to do...yesterday was a good day....need to appeal to the Gov, Director Coit and I think, to the good folks who were involved in the process along the way....we were told that RI had to offer the second option (Option#2) in Alexandria because they needed to protect RI for hires against a competitive disadvantage should neighboring states opt for a mode split for charters and also to keep regulations consistent between boats state to state (within the mode) assuming that Mass and perhaps CT was going to opt for mode splits. That premise is now gone, the ONLY way that RI can prevent what they claim they were trying to avoid by including a second option (Option #2) (AND IT IS "#2"..MORE IRONY :bs:) is to fall in line with Mass with Option#1 and have Ct. follow, NY boats will only be allowed 1 bass per client if they choose to fish our waters. OPTION #2 is now invalid based on the premise that it was originally offered. To do otherwise, to establish mode splits now would be irresponsible and downright disingenuous. I am contacting everyone going back to the meeting before the ASMFC meeting and imploring them to reach out to the Governor and Director on this, I'd encourage all concerned to do so as well, they were either misled, mistaken or willing participants of a hoax which has led to this. This cannot be what they intended based on what we were told and if it somehow was, that would be pretty insidious. I believe, based on what I saw, that some of them were very reluctant including that second option. Perhaps now they will do the right thing.

Congrats to Mass for thier choice, i can wait to see all.the guys.with2 fish.down the canal, hope they all.get busted.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

For whatever it's worth, I sent an email to Director Coit last night quoting the Mass regs.

For whatever it's worth, I sent an email to Director Coit last night quoting the Mass regs.

What is her email again?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

janet.coit@dem.ri.gov

Thanks !
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Found this in my email when I was searching for another document.

This was in the projo, and was passed to me via RISAA folks back in 2011....

'The coming striped-bass collapse' by Tim Coleman....

Found this in my email when I was searching for another document.

This was in the projo, and was passed to me via RISAA folks back in 2011....

'The coming striped-bass collapse' by Tim Coleman....

Tim is up in heaven looking down and saying "I told you so".

So what happens next in Rhode Island?

Who makes the FINAL decision, and when will that happen?

Today I contacted assistant DEM Director Robert Ballou to ask him about the process of lobbying Director Coit to support 1 @ 28. He assured me that Director Coit has not yet reached a final decision and that she is fully aware that yesterday Mass recommended 1 @ 28 for all modes.

He also mentioned that: In rendering her final decision, she is bound by the RI Administrative Procedures Act. In accordance with the Act, and per the recommendation of DEM Legal Counsel, she must insulate herself, at this stage, from any further input from, or communications with, anyone outside of the agency viv-a-vis the pending regulatory decision. The reasons for that are fairness for all stakeholders, and maintaining the integrity of the rule-making process. The regulated community and the public as a whole need to be assured that public comments on proposed regulatory changes may only be offered as a matter of public record during the public comment period. Once that comment period closes, which it did last week, the Director can’t entertain further input, as that would open the door to undue influence outside the scope of the public process.

So we may be further ahead contacting Governor Raimondo through her Director of Constituent Services - brad.inman@governor.ri.gov
She (Raimondo) may be the only one to have influence on the outcome at this point.

Tim is up in heaven looking down and saying "I told you so".

I can still hear his voice discussing this topic with me.
Miss him :(

Great job, Dennis. Peter is also sending out e-mails. I wrote yet another letter to Bran Inman.