Does he do this stuff on purpose, to give the finger to people with traditional values?

Bill Clinton had liberal core values, but he understood that lots o people felt differently, and that he was their President, too.

This guy...everything he touches, turns to vomit. He can't get the easy ones right.

When in the course of human events....

When in the course of human events....

18 months, just wait a bit longer, natural turn of elected power.

On an unrelated note, been reading a lot on the history leading up to and through the Civil War.

Takeaways:



Abe Lincoln was the best POTUS
Reading of actual history and relating to today cannot be constrained in 140 characters
We may be approaching about as decisive a nation as then

18 months, just wait a bit longer, natural turn of elected power.

On an unrelated note, been reading a lot on the history leading up to and through the Civil War.

Takeaways:



Abe Lincoln was the best POTUS
Reading of actual history and relating to today cannot be constrained in 140 characters
We may be approaching about as decisive a nation as then





Agreed on all counts.

Even here in the Peoples Republik Of Konnecticut, they lowered the flags to half-mast, as other governors are now doing. I assume Obama is aware that the attack took place, right? It's unbelievable to me that he hasn't lowered th eflag to half mast, who the hell advises this guy on these things?

It took 7 days to lower the flag.

Y was not the white house lit up at nite with RED, WHITE AND BLUE on the 4th of July.

It took 7 days to lower the flag.

Y was not the white house lit up at nite with RED, WHITE AND BLUE on the 4th of July.
And some patriotic face paint. I mean at least Obama could have had a flag on one cheek and a firework blast on the other.

WTF is going on???

Lights on White House who cares really Marines murdered on home soil flag should have been dropped to half mast when it happened. He seems to be fairly aloof to these things.
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Lights on White House who cares really Marines murdered on home soil flag should have been dropped to half mast when it happened. He seems to be fairly aloof to these things.
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I think it shows exactly how radical and out-of-touch he is. I bet less than 10% of Americans are offended by lowering the flag to honor these victims. However small and deranged this minority is, he is clearly in it. Unbelievable that we elected this guy.

How could that offend anybody? I am guessing that even Spence,who is as unpatriotic as they come, would be fine with such a gesture.
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the logic could be that it would signal that if you want a reaction from the president, go out and kill some service members.

the logic could be that it would signal that if you want a reaction from the president, go out and kill some service members.

Come on. You think he chose not to do it (until he was shamed into doing it today) to keep us safer? Why didn't he say that? And if that was his motive, why did he eventually lower the flag?

How could that offend anybody? I am guessing that even Spence,who is as unpatriotic as they come, would be fine with such a gesture.
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It offends Obama, or he would have done it immediately. He has no interest in being the commander in chief of a military, particularly in time of war. These guys represent that group, that Obama detests, who cling to their guns and religion because they are racist and otherwise flawed.

He has zero interest, zero, in being the leader of people with traditional values. Bill Clinton knew that once he was in office it was his duty to represent everybody, and he tried hard at it. This guy couldn't care less, and his refusal to lower the flag, is irrefutable proof of that.

Think of the company you are in, if you are offended at the thought of lowering the flag to honor these guys.

Meanwhile
Flags have been appropriately lowered
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Meanwhile
Flags have been appropriately lowered
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I'm not sure I'd use the word "appropriately", when at the White House, they were only lowered after days of outcry, and were shamed into doing it by governors who, unlike Obama, are not part of the genuine lunatic fringe in this country.

When SCOTUS issued their gay marriage ruling, within a few hours, the White House was awash in rainbow lights. Obama ordered this spiking of the football, despite the fact that a huge number of Americans hated what the Court did, and last time I checked, Obama is supposed to represent us, too. He's not supposed to stick his tongue out at us and say "nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah, we win"..

This issue with the flag at half mast, isn't considered controversial by any meaningful number of people, and the ones who are bothered by it, are deranged. Yet he refused to do it for 5 days.

I can't think of more compelling evidence of where this guy's values lie, and how utterly at odds his values are, with those of so many Americans.

Come on. You think he chose not to do it (until he was shamed into doing it today) to keep us safer? Why didn't he say that? And if that was his motive, why did he eventually lower the flag?

One thing for sure, he's not clueless and has a reason to do everything
he does for his own agenda and legacy. Imho he never did ,nor ever will
represent anybody except himself.

You guys are funny. This probably all comes down to a staffer not suggesting it sooner. And you make it into the devil's work…muhahhaahhahahahaha

As an aside. Several months ago I noticed my neighbor having left his flag out all winter continued to fly it in tatters. Not just a little frayed mind you but completely shredded. After politely asking him to take it down he begrudgingly replaced it with a new flag.

Recently he's been doing other stuff that the neighbors find offensive. I'm not going to get into it here. I did call him out on it of course.

So I just noticed this afternoon the shredded Old Glory flying off his deck just for spite.

This conversation should be interesting.

Well, at least he is not burning it in spite (rather than a proper burial ceremony).

Next time you bring it up with him, offer to him that someone you know will gladly take the tattered flag off his hands and burn it in a proper Flag Retirement ceremony with our Boy Scout troop. We have several flag ceremonies per year on camping trips. The grommets are given as tokens to military and various veterans organizations.

Well, at least he is not burning it in spite (rather than a proper burial ceremony).

Next time you bring it up with him, offer to him that someone you know will gladly take the tattered flag off his hands and burn it in a proper Flag Retirement ceremony with our Boy Scout troop. We have several flag ceremonies per year on camping trips. The grommets are given as tokens to military and various veterans organizations.
It was a good opportunity to discuss with my 11 year old proper flag etiquette again.

I'll bring that up as an option. Thanks.

You guys are funny. This probably all comes down to a staffer not suggesting it sooner. And you make it into the devil's work…muhahhaahhahahahaha


Any one of them could have looked like his son.....

Sorry, I ain't buying what you're selling there.......he completely #^&#^&#^&#^&-ing dropped the ball there and has No Excuse.
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Sorry, I ain't buying what you're selling there.......he completely #^&#^&#^&#^&-ing dropped the ball there and has No Excuse.
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I think to make that argument you'd need more data. How often is the flag lowered for recent events? How long does it usually take? Is this an anomaly or just usual business?

As Dangles noted, I'm all for honoring our fallen service members, but to claim this is an intentional diss should require some proof. Otherwise it's just partisan hay making, which may be even worse...

You guys are funny. This probably all comes down to a staffer not suggesting it sooner. And you make it into the devil's work…muhahhaahhahahahaha

As an aside. Several months ago I noticed my neighbor having left his flag out all winter continued to fly it in tatters. Not just a little frayed mind you but completely shredded. After politely asking him to take it down he begrudgingly replaced it with a new flag.

Recently he's been doing other stuff that the neighbors find offensive. I'm not going to get into it here. I did call him out on it of course.

So I just noticed this afternoon the shredded Old Glory flying off his deck just for spite.

This conversation should be interesting.

"This probably all comes down to a staffer not suggesting it sooner"

Right, these things would never occur to, say, the commander-in-chief of the guys who were killed. He was THEIR commander in chief. He needs a staffer to tell him it's a good idea to pay tribute to those killed on his watch? You know what, you're probably right, he probably is incapable of coming up with that on his own, something so simple and thoughtful and obvious.

Any one of them could have looked like his son.....

Sorry, I ain't buying what you're selling there.......he completely #^&#^&#^&#^&-ing dropped the ball there and has No Excuse.
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Obviously...

Spence can be his own worst enemy in discussions involving Obama. What he considers a sharp retort becomes awkwardly self serving. You do have to wonder what goes on in Obamas head in what seems to be an obvious slap to our servicemen. I sympathize with his legacy.
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You do have to wonder what goes on in Obamas head in what seems to be an obvious slap to our servicemen.
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Same thing that went on in his head sitting in Rev Wrights "church" for 20 years. Obviously, he genuinely despises what you'd call traditional, middle American values. Obama has no use for, nor can he begin to relate to, anyone unlike himself.

Spence can be his own worst enemy in discussions involving Obama. What he considers a sharp retort becomes awkwardly self serving. You do have to wonder what goes on in Obamas head in what seems to be an obvious slap to our servicemen. I sympathize with his legacy.
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You exemplify my last post, good work.

You guys are funny. This probably all comes down to a staffer not suggesting it sooner.

Yeah Spence, that's gotta be it. His lowering the Flag person couldn't reach him
while he was playing golf the next day.
Marines attacked on our own soil and it takes 5 days for the staffer to reach him to give him the news.
Prolly read it in the newspaper.

Yeah Spence, that's gotta be it. His lowering the Flag person couldn't reach him
while he was playing golf the next day.
Marines attacked on our own soil and it takes 5 days for the staffer to reach him to give him the news.
Prolly read it in the newspaper.
I think that with how much the most powerful person in the world has to deal with on a daily basis, perseverance on the height of our flags is likely left to other people.

I think that with how much the most powerful person in the world has to deal with on a daily basis, perseverance on the height of our flags is likely left to other people.

With his supposed brilliance it should have been a given.
He can't chew gum and walk at the same time?

I think to make that argument you'd need more data. How often is the flag lowered for recent events? How long does it usually take? Is this an anomaly or just usual business?

As Dangles noted, I'm all for honoring our fallen service members, but to claim this is an intentional diss should require some proof. Otherwise it's just partisan hay making, which may be even worse...

Washington Navy Yard Shooting - Sept 16 - Flag ordered lowered Sept 17 = 24 hours

Fort Hood Shooting - November 5 - Flag Ordered lowered November 6 = 24 Hours

Boston Marathon Bombing - April 15 - Flag Ordered Lowered on April 16 = 24 Hours

Newtown Shooting - December 14 - Flag Ordered Lowered on December 14 = less that 24 hours

Benghazi Attack - Sept 11 - Flag Lowered on Sept 12 = 24 Hours

Oak Creek Sikh Temple Shooting - Aug 5 - Flag Ordered Lowered Aug 6 = 24 Hours

Aurora Colorado Shooting - July 20 - Flag Ordered Lowered on July 20 = Less than 24 Hours

Tucson Arizona Shooting - Jan 8 - Flag Ordered Lowered on Jan 9 = 24 Hours


is that a good enough sample to show the time frame for such orders.....and does this blow the "Business as Usual" theory out of the water.


I also didn't say it was an Intentional Diss.....I said, and I quote, "he completely #^&#^&#^&#^&-ing dropped the ball there and has No Excuse."


and as much as I don't want to sound like Jim....Try and make that wrong

Washington Navy Yard Shooting - Sept 16 - Flag ordered lowered Sept 17 = 24 hours

Fort Hood Shooting - November 5 - Flag Ordered lowered November 6 = 24 Hours

Boston Marathon Bombing - April 15 - Flag Ordered Lowered on April 16 = 24 Hours

Newtown Shooting - December 14 - Flag Ordered Lowered on December 14 = less that 24 hours

Benghazi Attack - Sept 11 - Flag Lowered on Sept 12 = 24 Hours

Oak Creek Sikh Temple Shooting - Aug 5 - Flag Ordered Lowered Aug 6 = 24 Hours

Aurora Colorado Shooting - July 20 - Flag Ordered Lowered on July 20 = Less than 24 Hours

Tucson Arizona Shooting - Jan 8 - Flag Ordered Lowered on Jan 9 = 24 Hours


is that a good enough sample to show the time frame for such orders.....and does this blow the "Business as Usual" theory out of the water.


I also didn't say it was an Intentional Diss.....I said, and I quote, "he completely #^&#^&#^&#^&-ing dropped the ball there and has No Excuse."


and as much as I don't want to sound like Jim....Try and make that wrong

Spence, you just got your azz handed to you. On top of that, after SCOTUS legalized gay marriage, it also just took a few hours to illuminate the White House in rainbow colors.

Spence, what is your response to this, exactly?

"I also didn't say it was an Intentional Diss"

Fine, I'll say it. It didn't occur to him initially, then Foxnews started complaining, and he wasn't going to appear to be taking orders from Sean Hannity, so he stubbornly refused to give the order, until the governors (even liberal democrats) shamed him into doing it.

"as I don't want to sound like Jim"

Well that's a little harsh, IMHO.

I wouldn't think an intentional diss, more like a semi-intitutionalized-directed disregard. Even if it is a fall through the cracks (should not be) it is too much.

For an administration that has a protocol for a lot of things, surely there is a coordinator for something like this for a nation supposedly at war for almost a decade and a half

Well that's a little harsh, IMHO.

Its not all Puppy Dogs and Rainbows here..... :hihi:

Its not all Puppy Dogs and Rainbows here..... :hihi:

Fair enough!

I wouldn't think an intentional diss, more like a semi-intitutionalized-directed disregard. Even if it is a fall through the cracks (should not be) it is too much.

For an administration that has a protocol for a lot of things, surely there is a coordinator for something like this for a nation supposedly at war for almost a decade and a half

I don't know that he did it maliciously. i just don't think he has any appreciation, nor any concern, for the way that normal peopl efeel about such things.

When Nixon won a 49-state rout, there was an editor at the New York Times (I need to look up her name) who famously said "I can't believe he won, I don't know anyone who voted for him". The man won 49 out of 50 states, and this women, who was a big-shot at the NYT, never saw it coming, and couldn't understand how it was possible.

These people, the liberal swells, tend to surround themselves with like-minded people, drinking hot toddies on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, discussing poetry and existentialism. They are guilty of solipsism, unable to grasp that the whole world isn't exactly like them. They have absolutely no idea, nor could they care less, about people with whom they disagree.

I don't know that he did it maliciously. i just don't think he has any appreciation, nor any concern, for the way that normal peopl efeel about such things.

I disagree, there is a staff of people (Office) that handle various coordination between the Military and the White House. So while "O" likely did not do this intentionally himself, someone brought this to someone and was told to shut up, not now, or kicked the can down the road for someone else to bother with it.



These people, the liberal swells, tend to surround themselves with like-minded people, drinking hot toddies on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, discussing poetry and existentialism. They are guilty of solipsism, unable to grasp that the whole world isn't exactly like them. They have absolutely no idea, nor could they care less, about people with whom they disagree.

Yes, Flyover country. Oddly, where Spence is from ;)

I disagree, there is a staff of people (Office) that handle various coordination between the Military and the White House. So while "O" likely did not do this intentionally himself, someone brought this to someone and was told to shut up, not now, or kicked the can down the road for someone else to bother with it.




I agree with everything you are saying. Lots of speculation. But we all know that Obama knows what happened in Tennessee. He's the commander-in-chief, he's their commander-in-chief. Ultimately the buck stops with him (at least it did for the first 43 presidents). But I would genuinely like to know, did he actually deny someone's request to give the order, or did it never come up?

Who knows.

More good news, latest Quinnipiac University polls show Hilary is tanking big-time in all but the bluest states. I am dying to know what Joe Biden is going to do. This is the political opportunity he's been waiting fopr his whole life.

Jim nothing wrong with your neighbor flying a tattered flag only the way it is suppose to be detroyed...maybe U should have bought a flag and gave it to him in a friendly gesture since U R so concerned....U and your neighbors may have other issues with him/her...

By the way Marine U flying a flag year round?

If the flag looks like crap....Per the US Flag Code...

"The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning."

and if he's flying it all winter, I hope he's taking it down at night or at least has a light on it.

US Flag Code

"It is the universal custom to display the flag only from sunrise to sunset on buildings and on stationary flagstaffs in the open. However, when a patriotic effect is desired, the flag may be displayed twenty-four hours a day if properly illuminated during the hours of darkness."

Spence, you just got your azz handed to you. On top of that, after SCOTUS legalized gay marriage, it also just took a few hours to illuminate the White House in rainbow colors.

Spence, what is your response to this, exactly?

Actually he just validated my point. Given the Obama Administration appears to have a consistent pattern in regards to flying the flag, one would likely assume this was just an oversight by someone else...unless there's information otherwise which I don't believe there is.

It's fake outrage that fits the narrative of Obama not loving this country because of his Kenyan sensibilities.

Jim nothing wrong with your neighbor flying a tattered flag only the way it is suppose to be detroyed...maybe U should have bought a flag and gave it to him in a friendly gesture since U R so concerned....U and your neighbors may have other issues with him/her...

By the way Marine U flying a flag year round?
You're confusing me with Jim.

Yes, Flyover country. Oddly, where Spence is from ;)
Huh? Iowa isn't exactly full of "liberal swells"

If the flag looks like crap....Per the US Flag Code...

"The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning."
I would estimate there's about 27% of the original US flag left.

and if he's flying it all winter, I hope he's taking it down at night or at least has a light on it.
You're joking right?

You exemplify my last post, good work.

Well,that must be satisfying.

Make sure you ignore the facts and continue to grasp at straws. Even when you are wrong,you keep insisting you are right. Silly Jeff
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It was a good opportunity to discuss with my 11 year old proper flag etiquette again.

I'll bring that up as an option. Thanks.

No problem. We would be glad to do it - I'll even pick up the flag from him.

Huh? Iowa isn't exactly full of "liberal swells"

You just made my /sarc point - you would be in a decidedly small minority in your home state. :rotf2:

I would estimate there's about 27% of the original US flag left.

You're joking right?

Nope - sunrise to sunset, afterward it must be lit.

Kevin is extremely well versed in the Flag code / etiquette. Surprisingly how most people don't know much about it - guess it is taboo to talk about in schools today (and the last 40 years)

Jim I have to aplogize .

I am very sorry for the mix up.

Actually he just validated my point. Given the Obama Administration appears to have a consistent pattern in regards to flying the flag, one would likely assume this was just an oversight by someone else...unless there's information otherwise which I don't believe there is.

It's fake outrage that fits the narrative of Obama not loving this country because of his Kenyan sensibilities.

Man oh man. When Obama said there were 57 states, was he wrong then? Or did he acquire additional states in a nanosecond, and then sell them in the next nanosecond.
My outrage isn't fake, it's as genuine as it gets. There's not one loyal follower of rev wright who doesn't hate this country, nor a political ally of bill ayers, and you can throw his wife in the mix of America bathers. You'll never hear me say he's not a citizen, though.
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Jim I have to aplogize .

I am very sorry for the mix up.

No worries, if I had a dollar for every time I confused who said what. I have an illuminated flag on my house, but I'm Personally not a fanatic about it, in terms of what others do, I usually don't concern myself with what some person does on his own property.
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Actually he just validated my point. Given the Obama Administration appears to have a consistent pattern in regards to flying the flag, one would likely assume this was just an oversight by someone else...unless there's information otherwise which I don't believe there is.

It's fake outrage that fits the narrative of Obama not loving this country because of his Kenyan sensibilities.

In other words, if it always took Obama a week to lower the flag, you give him a pass. And if he usually takes less than a day to do it, you still give him a pass. In other words, no matter what, he is impeccable. Must be awfully convenient to be validated regardless of what the facts happen to be. The climate change kooks take the same approach. No matter what, it's man made climate change that will have Fairbanks exporting rum and sugar cane any day now.
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You just made my /sarc point - you would be in a decidedly small minority in your home state. :rotf2:
Your calculus has an error as you are misdefining variables.

Kevin is extremely well versed in the Flag code / etiquette. Surprisingly how most people don't know much about it - guess it is taboo to talk about in schools today (and the last 40 years)
I'm no expert but I know all the fundamentals. Haven't seen him yet…soon...