I think two memorable moments from the past week were Gov. Rick Perry asserting dark crowded movie theaters would be better off with lots of firearms...

...and then following it up by challenging Donald Trump to a pull up contest.

Did that guy from Ohio get in the race?

Is anyone else besides Trump (and Perry) still running?

Both Parties live in a toilet. Any other thought is based in BS. Look at the DEM challengers Hillary?? Really. No one has taken more big business money. Sanders. How well will a "socialist" poll in the Midwest. Sorry but this election will be decided by TMZ just like the last two.
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Besides that what is wrong with responsible people legally carrying for self defense. Not my cup of tea but given the recent rise of gun violence by people who carry illegally in my area my mind is opening to the option.
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I think two memorable moments from the past week were Gov. Rick Perry asserting dark crowded movie theaters would be better off with lots of firearms...


Ever shot in low light situations? I have, and I'd prefer me and several others be armed and at least able to defend ourselves if the situation ever arose. 90% of "mass shootings" are in Gun Free zones, whats that tell you?
The more I see and read from Rand Paul the more I like him. Term limits, tax code etc etc ..

Both Parties live in a toilet. Any other thought is based in BS. Look at the DEM challengers Hillary?? Really. No one has taken more big business money. Sanders. How well will a "socialist" poll in the Midwest. Sorry but this election will be decided by TMZ just like the last two.
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I had this exact discussion this morning. It's like watching a season of professional wrestling. Or better yet, like watching everyone jump out of a clown car.
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I had this exact discussion this morning. It's like watching a season of professional wrestling. Or better yet, like watching everyone jump out of a clown car.
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That's because this far out, the most vocal and flamboyant candidates (read, the freaks) get all the press.

Spence would have you believe that Donald Trump represents the whole party, even though 80% of registered republicans prefer someone else. Trump and Bernie Sanders are getting a lot of press, I have a better shot at getting chosen as a Vidal Sassoon model (I'm bald) then either of them has of getting elected.

Spence, what's your problem with "the guy from Ohio" exactly? I guess he comes across as a bit of a bumpkin, but if all you care about is a smooth talker who has zero common sense, Weird Harold shows us what happens when we go that route.

I think two memorable moments from the past week were Gov. Rick Perry asserting dark crowded movie theaters would be better off with lots of firearms...

...and then following it up by challenging Donald Trump to a pull up contest.

Did that guy from Ohio get in the race?

Is anyone else besides Trump (and Perry) still running?

Look at the political leanings of states with highest/lowest debt. Or states that are losing population versus those that are adding jobs. In the face of that, all you can do is what you just did, lob personal attacks.

Spence, did Al Sharpton represent your entire party when he ran? Does he speak for you? Or is it possible that both parties have a certain freak element?

Neither Trump nor Perry will be around after Super Tuesday, it's a disgrace that Trump will be in the first debate, and not someone like Bobby Jindal.

I saw a good post the other day, it said, "asking the American people to pick a good representative from the republican or Democratic Party, is like telling them to eat healthy at McDonald's or Burger King. "
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Wow. That hit the nail right on the head !
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I think two memorable moments from the past week were Gov. Rick Perry asserting dark crowded movie theaters would be better off with lots of firearms...

...and then following it up by challenging Donald Trump to a pull up contest.

Did that guy from Ohio get in the race?

Is anyone else besides Trump (and Perry) still running?

this is like making fun of someone's new car while you are riding around on a crappy old moped :heybaby: the GOP has quite a few options....looks like "recruit Biden" is the dems last hope currently....haaaaaaaaaaaaa

Did anyone else waste 2 hours watching that "debate" last night? Fox News should be embarrassed.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/08/06/rand-paul-gets-into-shouting-match-with-chris-christie-on-govt-surveillance-get-a-warrant/
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One of the funnier moments. My observation was there wasn't much debate, just FOX trying to stir the pot.

Watched it last night - mediocre. Probably put a good nail in the Trump coffin.

Dying to see Hillary and Bernie Sanders - I am going to arrange an online drinking game where you take a sip for every swig for every Marxist slogan and a swig for every time they try to come across as tough on liberty and and strong foreign policy

#hashtagsmatter

Ever shot in low light situations? I have, and I'd prefer me and several others be armed and at least able to defend ourselves if the situation ever arose. 90% of "mass shootings" are in Gun Free zones, whats that tell you?
The more I see and read from Rand Paul the more I like him. Term limits, tax code etc etc ..

Yes - how many shootings / killings are caused by legal armed crazy people versus how many caused by sane people with illegal guns.

Numbers are not close but we only hear about one of them on the news.

I had this exact discussion this morning. It's like watching a season of professional wrestling. Or better yet, like watching everyone jump out of a clown car.
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Jump out, while moving 10mph, and then trying to jump back in again.

I can't beleive trumps response to calling women fat pigs! Sorry Rosie lol
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Dying to see Hillary and Bernie Sanders - I am going to arrange an online drinking game where you take a sip for every swig for every Marxist slogan .

In that drinking game, Eril Flynn and Richard Burton would be dead 5 minutes in.

The Clintons gave 15M to charity over the last few years. Sounds great, right?. Turns out 14.8 million of that, went to their foundation, from which they reimburse themselves for lavish travel expenses, and give themselves a podium on which to promote their agenda. The word 'disgusting' doesn't even come close.

Fox is clearly in the tank for Jeb Bush, #^&#^&#^&#^& Fox and him.
Trump is an ass but he reflects how most feel with our elected officials, pissed off.
Too bad he doesn't have any answers or solutions.
Christie must have got lessons from his buddy Obozo on how to blame the guy before him.
Ben Carson is the guy I'll support if he can get the nomination of the party.
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It's like watching everyone jump out of a clown car.
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http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c66/ravenob1/clowns.png

The Clintons gave 15M to charity over the last few years. Sounds great, right?. Turns out 14.8 million of that, went to their foundation, from which they reimburse themselves for lavish travel expenses, and give themselves a podium on which to promote their agenda. The word 'disgusting' doesn't even come close.
The Clinton's have multiple charities. They donate most of their money to the Clinton Family Foundation which acts as a distribution point for donations to other charities, though from what I've read most of their money is applied directly.

For the most part you're just parroting the original WSJ opinion piece that all the pundits jumped on not realizing it was severely flawed.

Why some conservatives enthusiastically favor Trump over establishment Republicans:

http://www.gopusa.com/theloft/2015/08/26/gop-pollster-gets-wobbly-from-listening-to-trump-supporters/?subscriber=1

Trump is not my choice. I prefer either Cruz, Jindal, Carson, or Fiorina--and a combination of any two of them for Pres. and VP. But the Democrat-lite establishment leadership prefers to support their own Dem-lite guys, like Jeb Bush etc., and it invites the conservative base to bolt the party and give the election and future of the country to progressive socialist rule.

Those who think that, at this time, a plurality, or even a small majority of Americans won't vote for a socialist, might be right . . . but they may not be right.

If establishment conservatives actually offered a distinct choice to progressivism, Trump would not be a factor.

The Clinton's have multiple charities. They donate most of their money to the Clinton Family Foundation which acts as a distribution point for donations to other charities, though from what I've read most of their money is applied directly.

For the most part you're just parroting the original WSJ opinion piece that all the pundits jumped on not realizing it was severely flawed.

"They donate most of their money to the Clinton Family Foundation "

14.8M, out of 15.0M, to be precise.

"the original WSJ opinion piece that all the pundits jumped on not realizing it was severely flawed"

How was it flawed? Does the Foundation provide these weasels with perks (luxury travel, a platform to promote their agenda) or not?

The Clinton's have multiple charities. They donate most of their money to the Clinton Family Foundation which acts as a distribution point for donations to other charities, though from what I've read most of their money is applied directly.



Does that also include the $600,000/yr salary to Chelsea Clinton, nice girl ,I like her a lot, working for the Clinton Foundation?

Does that also include the $600,000/yr salary to Chelsea Clinton, nice girl ,I like her a lot, working for the Clinton Foundation?

WOW...that's almost as good as being Kennedy and working for Citizens Energy,,,,,those "non-profits" sure pay impressive salaries....wonder what you have to do to get one of those jobs?

WOW...that's almost as good as being Kennedy and working for Citizens Energy,,,,,those "non-profits" sure pay impressive salaries....wonder what you have to do to get one of those jobs?

Chelsea is also married to a hedge fund manager. Yu know, one of thos ehedge fund managers that Hilary is always blamoing for all the evil in the world.

Hilary is a lot like Liz Warren, aka Apache Chief. It's OK for them to be rich, but not anyone else.

Chelsea is also married to a hedge fund manager. Yu know, one of thos ehedge fund managers that Hilary is always blamoing for all the evil in the world.



Is that the same Hillary who invested $10,000 which was turned into $100,000
in like a few months????
Couldn't be, she was broke when she left the White House. :hihi:

The Clintons were homeless and broke when they stepped out of the white house....only to become rich stepping over the threshold entrance of one of their two mansions...:)

WOW...that's almost as good as being Kennedy and working for Citizens Energy,,,,,those "non-profits" sure pay impressive salaries....wonder what you have to do to get one of those jobs?

Prolly first perquisite would be willing to lie.

Does that also include the $600,000/yr salary to Chelsea Clinton, nice girl ,I like her a lot, working for the Clinton Foundation?

Chelsea didn't earn 600k a year working for the Clinton Foundation.
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Chelsea didn't earn 600k a year working for the Clinton Foundation.
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No that was an NBC, where despite having no experience, managed to core that salary. She also pulls in another 250k a year to serve on the Board Of Directors (since she has so much experience) at something called IAC.

But Hilary rails against the fact that the system is tilted in favor of the rich & powerful. No hypocrisy there, right Spence?

Chelsea didn't earn 600k a year working for the Clinton Foundation.
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Justplugit is always close with his facts but wrong on important details.
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Justplugit is always close with his facts but wrong on important details.
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But she did make 600k a year at NBC, and no one would deny she got that gig thanks to her parentage. Shouldn't that preclude Hilary from decrying income inequality and how awful it is that the rich and well-connected have all these perks? Who the hell is she to complain about these things? With one hand, she wags her finger at the system for all of its unfairness. With the other hand, she milks said system for tens of millions of dollars? That's not revolting to you?

Same as one of Pres. Bush's daughters.
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Same as one of Pres. Bush's daughters.
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It's not remotely the same, because Bush didn't base his campaign on bashing the system that made him stinking rich. Hilary is doing exactly that.

Clearly, Hilary isn't too offended by our capitalist system, because she's taking advantage of it for immense personal gain. WHy is OK when she does it, but not a hedge fund manager? Let me re-phrase, why is it wrong for hedge fund managers, except her son-in-law, to do what they do? Why does he deserve his riches, but no one else in his profession?

What the hell is in that Kool Aid, anyway?

Justplugit is always close with his facts but wrong on important details.
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You're right in this case, but please elaborate on I'm" ALWAYS CLOSE" on facts
but wrong on important details anywhere else. You paint with a broad brush. :)

Justplugit is always close with his facts but wrong on important details.
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she's 36 and she's worth 15 million and her parents are poor....quite a success story....love free market capitalism....what did she do again?

hard to determine what her compensation is at the Clinton Slush Fund but one of her buddies pulled down 275k for 5 months
(Eric Braverman, a friend of Chelsea Clinton, was paid nearly $275,000 in salary, benefits, and a housing allowance for just five months’ work )..soooo...not to mention all of the lavish and extravagant perks one enjoys while in the midst of non-profit work


"The website Celebrity Net Worth pegs Chelsea’s personal fortune at $15 million, with most of her dough earned as a consultant at McKinsey & Co. and by working for Avenue Capital Investment Group. The site estimates Mezvinsky, 36, is also worth $15 million, which he made as an investment banker at Goldman Sachs and while working at the hedge fund 3G Capital and at a hedge fund he co-founded in 2011."

Hillary was asked how she’ll convince voters she’s not “part of the problem” on the issue of income inequality.
“But they don’t see me as part of the problem,” she said, “because we pay ordinary income tax, unlike a lot of people who are truly well off, not to name names; and we’ve done it through dint of hard work.”

The Clinton Foundation joins Al Sharpton’s troubled National Action Network on Charity Navigator’s list. It seems appropriate that two great con artists, Bill Clinton and Al Sharpton, should be thus be joined.

Sharpton’s outfit reportedly made the list because it didn’t pay payroll taxes for several years. The Clinton Foundation’s problems run deeper. According to the Post, it took in more than $140 million in grants and pledges in 2013 but spent just $9 million on direct aid.

Much of the Foundation’s money goes to travel ($8.5 million in 2013); conferences, conventions and meetings ($9.2 million); and payroll and employee benefits ($30 million).

; and we’ve done it through dint of hard work.”



Right, right. And the CEOs and hedge fund managers she blames for the inequities of our system, how does she know that none of them worked hard?

Earth to liberals...poverty is brutal and unfair. However, in most cases, it is not caused by another person's wealth. Wealth is not finite, it's not like a pizza. If Hilary pulls in another $1M in speaking fees this month, that does not mean there's $1M less for the rest of us to scrounge for.

That cannot be mad wrong, it is irrefutable fact. However - because one of the pillars of liberalism is that if you have been anointed with "victim" status, then nothing that goes wrong is ever your fault, all you problems are created by a rich white guy in a Brooks Brothers suit - Hilary is expected to rally her base with this lie.

You're right in this case, but please elaborate on I'm" ALWAYS CLOSE" on facts
but wrong on important details anywhere else. You paint with a broad brush. :)

You frequently get important facts wrong. You did in the thread about the classified emails. Previously, you claimed some liberal made a statement and if fact it was a conserv. (on another thread). Just a few examples.

But to the state of the GOP – examples - refuses to take $10 in spending cuts if $1 in tax increases, deny global warming (and pass rules for certain depts. to prevent them from looking at it), want to defund environmental depts. (who started the DEP? It would never be proposed by a Rep. now) seem racist, sexist (see Trump Mexicans/woman and the refusal of the candidates to say anything until the noise got so load), disrespectful of the Pres. (you can disagree strongly w/o the rude, disrespectful things said) the constant “if your poor, you’re lazy and on welfare”, insist. on bringing up social issues where the cand. position is much further right than the general pop. bc they’re appealing to the evangelical right, etc. etc. They have gotten further and further right and have alienated more and more segments of the population (“illegals”, “anchor babies”, etc) leaving their base as old white guys and married white woman. When they lose the next election, they will pay lip service to why and then continue to say it is bc people want things for free. White men are a shrinking % of the pop., yet that is who they focus on. This is not the GOP who use to regularly get my vote.

WOW...that's almost as good as being Kennedy and working for Citizens Energy,,,,,those "non-profits" sure pay impressive salaries....wonder what you have to do to get one of those jobs?

do not leave out the radical news reporter George Ramos's daughter... she is on the Clinton Foundation payroll too.....:)

But to the state of the GOP – examples - refuses to take $10 in spending cuts if $1 in tax increases, deny global warming (and pass rules for certain depts. to prevent them from looking at it), want to defund environmental depts. (who started the DEP? It would never be proposed by a Rep. now) seem racist, sexist (see Trump Mexicans/woman and the refusal of the candidates to say anything until the noise got so load), disrespectful of the Pres. (you can disagree strongly w/o the rude, disrespectful things said) the constant “if your poor, you’re lazy and on welfare”, insist. on bringing up social issues where the cand. position is much further right than the general pop. bc they’re appealing to the evangelical right, etc. etc. They have gotten further and further right and have alienated more and more segments of the population (“illegals”, “anchor babies”, etc) leaving their base as old white guys and married white woman. When they lose the next election, they will pay lip service to why and then continue to say it is bc people want things for free. White men are a shrinking % of the pop., yet that is who they focus on. This is not the GOP who use to regularly get my vote.

"seem racist, sexist "

Oh, please tell that to Carly Fiorina, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Ben Carson, and Bobby Jindal.

"insist. on bringing up social issues "

You're right, how DARE we bring up social issues.

"They have gotten further and further right and have alienated more and more segments of the population"

This is great. You accuse us of alienating, yet you also call us racist and sexist. Yes, we can clearly learn to be inclusive by patterning our behavior after those on your side, who never ever talk about th actual issue, they just label everyone who disagrees with them as a racist hatemonger. That's inclusion, all right. Yesterday, Hilary compared the pro-life group (which is almost half the country) to ISIS. That's how to be inclusive?

“illegals” - Paul, why is that in quotes? If someone comes here illegally, it's inappropriate to say that out loud? Are you that politically correct?

"leaving their base as old white guys and married white woman"

again, tell that to Cruz, Rubio, Carson, Jindal, et al.

It's funny, I used to be a Democrat, and I felt like I got pushed out when the Dems got in bed with radicals like George Soros and Moveon.org. I also remember the way those racially sensitive democrats in the US Senate, led by Joe Biden, tried to block Clarence Thomas' nomination by playing to the lowest racial stereotype, by saying (with zero supporting evidence) that he i snot to be trusted around women.

A higher % of the US population identifies as conservative, rather than liberal. Which is probably we the GOP continues to do well in mid-terms, because those elections are decided more locally than presidential cycles.

The GOP controls both houses of congress, they have a majority of governborships and state legislatures. So while you did a great job regurgitating the MSNBC labels of Republicans, clearly the American public isn't buying it.

As the country becomes less white, I agree the GOP will have a hard time. But about the time that happens, is when Social Sucurity and Medicare will go belly up, and when that happens, lots of people will see irefutable proof that liberals lie through their teeth about such things to get votes.

Trump is a clown, but I get where his support comes from. In the last 2 elections, the GOP nomoinated McCain and Romney, 2 very very moderate guys. The country said no. So now some folks want to get someone who is further to the right. Is Obama a moderate? A guy who think sit's OK to kill babies who survive abortions and are outside the womb? A guy who sends his kids to a jillion dolla year private school, but is opposed to vouchers that let others escape failing schools?

The facts spit in the face of much of what you said. Less than one year ago, the GOP absolutely demolished the Democrats. How did that happen if the party only cares about rich white guys?

GOP agenda:
small federal govt
individual liberty
individual responsibility
power of the free market to provide upward economic mobility
being charitable to neighbors
sanctity of all life
fiscal responsibility
strong national defense
importance of American exceptionalism on the world stage

Granted, that's not how MSNBC describes the GOP agenda.

Paul, as to global warming, it's far from settled. I wa saround when the scientists all said that the earth was freezing, and we needed to act to stop that threat. Then it was global warming. Then climate change.

we need to look into these things, obviously. But I'm not ready to tell anyone, that they can't live as comfortably as I do, until we have mor efacts. If much of what the alarmists predicted was true, Denver would be underwater by now, and North Dakota would be exporting pineapples.

It must be nice to hide behind a theory where if it gets warmer you are right, if it gets colder you are right, if it rains you are right, if it doesn't rain you are right, if it snows you ar eright, and if it doesn't snow you are right. But it's OK for the face of this movement, Al Gore, to have huge mansions and a private jet because shut up!!

You frequently get important facts wrong. You did in the thread about the classified emails. Previously, you claimed some liberal made a statement and if fact it was a conserv. (on another thread). Just a few examples.

Please correct my facts with sources in both cases.

Amazing how closely you read my posts for a guy who claimed
he never reads them. :hihi:

Please correct my facts with sources in both cases.

Amazing how closely you read my posts for a guy who claimed
he never reads them. :hihi:

Didn't Jim just point out it wasn't the foundation and didn't we tell you that the emails weren't classified when they were sent?

Although I can't recall stating I don't read your posts, to be honest I usually don't spend much time on them bc they usually are short on facts and usually contain just snide comments (not to say every post by anyone needs to contain facts as most of our posts are just opinions). Now I do ignore 1 or 2 other people's posts.

GOP view to help blacks in poverty:

Help for those who need it. Encourage accomplishment and achievement for those who have the ability to help themselves. Help black kids escape failing schools with vouchers to let them attend schools that will help them get out of poverty. Encourage behavior (staying in school, not having kids as teenagers, family values) that aren't likely to guarantee a perpetual poverty cycle. Empower blacks to help themselves.

Liberal view on blacks in poverty:

Pat them on the head and say "there, there." Give them enough cash to postpone death, but not enough to help them get ahead. Tell them that there's nothing wrong with 75% of babies being born out of wedlock (the few black babies who aren't aborted, that is). Keep telling them that none of it is their fault. Oppose all voucher programs, for no conceivable reason except that the teachers unions, which give huge $$ to democrats, are opposed to voucher programs. Instead of helping them meet competitive standards so they can achieve on their own, lower required standards for colleges and jobs, thus setting blacks up for failure.

As Lyndon Johnson said, "if we give these n*ggers free stuff, they'll vote for us for 200 years". I am paraphrasing a bit...

Which philospohy is constructive, and which is destructive?

Didn't Jim just point out it wasn't the foundation and didn't we tell you that the emails weren't classified when they were sent?

Although I can't recall stating I don't read your posts, to be honest I usually don't spend much time on them bc they usually are short on facts and usually contain just snide comments (not to say every post by anyone needs to contain facts as most of our posts You are just opinions). Now I do ignore 1 or 2 other people's posts.

Yes ,you and he did point out my error, and I admitted I was wrong, see post #34.
You seem to be a "selective reader" and yet paint your attack
on others with a "broad brush", using 1 or2 examples of mistakes
to try and prove your accusations.
Snide remarks are fun and good as they can sometimes bring
a point home quickly without a lot of fluff. Not for the thin skinned though.

Carry on with your facts, sources , personal attacks and keep up
your elitist perfectionism. :)

Carry on with your facts, sources , personal attacks and keep up
your elitist perfectionism. :)

:blush:Yup, that is me.

But but but Gore...

Gore did a great thing by mainstreaming the science in a palatable way for the general public. If you think we scientists run around asking him what to say..... :scream:

Paul, as to global warming, it's far from settled. I wa saround when the scientists all said that the earth was freezing, and we needed to act to stop that threat.


This is such a line of crap that gets tossed around, largely due to a newsweek article. See below. :bs: I bolded a great line. Read Merchants of Doubt, it is a good book on the climate change rhetoric.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/What-1970s-science-said-about-global-cooling.html

"Figure 1: Number of papers classified as predicting future global cooling (blue) or warming (red). In no year were there more global cooling papers than global warming papers.

So in fact, the large majority of climate research in the 1970s predicted the Earth would warm as a consequence of CO2. Rather than climate science predicting cooling, the opposite is the case. Most interesting about Peterson's paper is not the debunking of an already well debunked skeptic argument but a succinct history of climate science over the 20th century, describing how scientists from different fields gradually pieced together their diverse findings into a more unified picture of how climate operates."

The science the CO2 is a greenhouse gas is settled, as is the fact that we are contributing to changes to the climate. This is not just done with models, which larely do work, but with actual data. A chosen few stay and try to fight that, but the legitimate science on this is done.

Trust me, scientists are contrarians by nature. The but but but grant money so they lie argument is crap. Do you know how much funding would be available to those who could disprove (legitimately) human's impact on climate change? What attempts get made, an email hack that basically showed nothing when viewed in context, a bunch of people playing games with statistics on other peoples results, etc..

I think reasonable people can debate the changes that are very likely to (are) occurring. Ask local fisherman with a long memory; Laptew was quoted in an article lately outlining all the changes he has observed, particularly on the changes of species ranges, which lines up with the temperature measurement data from local waters. Not models, actual measurements.

There are alarmists, and Hansen's latest paper is one. Is it out of the realm of possibility that rates of sea level rise could be drastically higher than currently estimated? Of course not, but it may be on the extreme. That is what we should be discussing, will sea level be 1ft bt 2050, or 2075 or 5ft by 2100; not bury our heads in the sand and accuse all the scientists of lying.

What I find really ironic is that the scientific process shares much more with conservative thinking than does liberalism.
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What I find really ironic is that the scientific process shares much more with conservative thinking than does liberalism.
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The models are based, largely, on speculative assumptions. That's where the skepticism comes from.

The models are based, largely, on speculative assumptions. That's where the skepticism comes from.

No, that is not how they work. Models are tuned to existing data to replicate complex problems and then are used to make projections. Are some assumptions involved? Of course. But most good models don;t just start today and look forward blindly. Note they language in the video; trends are important here, not exact dates. Like I said reasonable people can disagree on where/how fast we are headed, and exact dates are squirrelly given the short-term variability in climate/weather patterns.

As an aside, many of the climate models made 20 years ago have been compared to measurements since then, and the scare part for at least SLR, which I am most well-versed in, is that we are trending towards the higher predictions.... Rahstorf et al out of Germany have numerous peer-reviewed papers on this.

Good primer here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v9aRQpumPA

No, that is not how they work. Models are tuned to existing data to replicate complex problems and then are used to make projections. Are some assumptions involved? Of course. But most good models don;t just start today and look forward blindly. Note they language in the video; trends are important here, not exact dates. Like I said reasonable people can disagree on where/how fast we are headed, and exact dates are squirrelly given the short-term variability in climate/weather patterns.

As an aside, many of the climate models made 20 years ago have been compared to measurements since then, and the scare part for at least SLR, which I am most well-versed in, is that we are trending towards the higher predictions.... Rahstorf et al out of Germany have numerous peer-reviewed papers on this.

Good primer here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v9aRQpumPA

Bryan, I love nature, and I spend a lot more time in the woods, deep in the woods, than most.

You cannot tell me that the global freezing scare was one article. It wasn't. I remember very clearly.

If those models are accurate, why are none of the predictions coming true? Global warming changed very abruptly to 'climate change'.

And why isn't it valid to ask why Al Gore lives the way he does, if he believes what he claims to believe?

Bryan, I love nature, and I spend a lot more time in the woods, deep in the woods, than most.

1. You cannot tell me that the global freezing scare was one article. It wasn't. I remember very clearly.

2. If those models are accurate, why are none of the predictions coming true? Global warming changed very abruptly to 'climate change'.

3. And why isn't it valid to ask why Al Gore lives the way he does, if he believes what he claims to believe?

1. Read what I posted, the science clearly was majority warming not cooling in the 70's

2. Many are. I pointed out specific SLR models that are 'coming true' Watch the video. Learn something about the models.

3. Ask away. Gore became the right's face of climate in many regards. He is also a hypocrite in many on the climate change side of things. Have I EVER on this forum pointed to Gore regarding climate change, EVER?

What I find really ironic is that the scientific process shares much more with conservative thinking than does liberalism.
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maybe but it's been clearly shown that the climate alarmists ignored or corrupted scientific process, falsified data and were flat out disingenuous about many claims and promises to serve their agenda which is probably more in line with modern liberalism/progressivism

Bryan, mankind is putting more CO2 in the atmosphere, that is beyond dispute. What the effect of that will be, is far from settled. We have no idea what ability the atmosphere has to harmlessly absorb more CO2, we don't know how the ocean fits into that equation...all the models make speculative (wildly speculative) assumptions about such things.

It's vital we keep studying and examining. But it's not settled science, far from it. If it was, your side would not have been forced to re-name the issue from global warming to climate change. Oh, the Earth isn't warming the way we thought? Let's just call it climate change, that way, no matter what happens, we can say we are correct!

But she did make 600k a year at NBC, and no one would deny she got that gig thanks to her parentage.
Thanks for that insight Professor Obvious.

Believe it or not Chelsea actually has some serious education and a very impressive resume. I'd think NBC was willing to drop some coin on an individual they thought would get attention.

Thanks for that insight Professor Obvious.

Believe it or not Chelsea actually has some serious education and a very impressive resume. I'd think NBC was willing to drop some coin on an individual they thought would get attention.

So if it's obvious that her parentage got her that gig, then isn't it equally obvious that Hilary is a hypocrite for exploiting the system for her benefit, and bashing the system for favoring the powerful and the wealthy?

Here is the opinion of a "right wing conservative" on the state of the GOP:

http://www.redstate.com/2015/08/31/the-beginning-of-the-end-2/?utm_source=rsmorningbriefing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl

Great comments in that article
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Yes, let's ponder the state of the GOP...Last time I checked, the GOP absolutely demolished the Dems less than one year ago in the last national election. It was an historic drubbing. Am I remembering that wrong? The GOP currently has both houses of congress, a majority of governorships, and a majority of state legislatures. And I'm supposed to believe the party is in tatters because Bill Maher and Rachael Maddow desperately want me to believe that?

There are a lot of things I wish the GOP did differently at the national level. And given certain demographic shifts, the GOP may find itself struggling unless they make progress with the Hispanic vote. But that's not unrealistic, as Bush did fine with Hispanics. Enter Marco Rubio.

Take a look at the approval rating for congress and the senate ;)
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Take a look at the approval rating for congress and the senate ;)
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Nebe, do you know what congressional approval ratings were before the GOP took over both houses? Lousy. Approval ratings for Congress have been in the toilet for a long time and for good reason.

You are correct, people are fed up with Congress, because they don't do what they are supposed to do. That's why approval ratings are low for Congress, and that's also why Trump resonates with those who are frustrated.

Frustration with Congress certainly isn't unique to the GOP. If it was, how can you possibly explain what happened in November 2014?

Frustration with Congress certainly isn't unique to the GOP. If it was, how can you possibly explain what happened in November 2014?

The Dems had many more contested seats up for election.

The Dems had many more contested seats up for election.

The entire house of representatives was up for re-election, and the GOP made big gains there, so your theory doesn't explain what happened in the House. But you do have a good point about the Senate, the Dems had some seats up in states that usually lean right, and without Obama on the ticket, they were vulnerable. And in 2016, the GOP will have many more seats up for re-election, but I don't know ho wmany are truly vulnerable. I don't hear a lot of talk that the Dems expect to re-take the senate, at least not yet. But I would think it's a good opportunity for them.

What hurt the Reps. was they had some bruising primaries. Absent those they would have prob. won more seats. I think they have worked hard over the last 4 years so that doesn't happen again.

What hurt the Reps. was they had some bruising primaries. Absent those they would have prob. won more seats. I think they have worked hard over the last 4 years so that doesn't happen again.

Hadn't heard that, good thinking, you may well be right.

What hurt the GOP (what kept them from doing even better) was a few races where the tea party or libertarian party entered third party candidates, handed a few races to the Dems. That is something that the GOP needs to get a handle on, right quick.

People make fun of the GOP because of Trump (I remember when Howard Dean was the Democratic frontrunner in 2004, until he blew a gasket on national TV and handed the nomination to Kerry). I have to say, I think Carson, Rubio, Cruz, Walker, Jindal are all very serious and impressive, to me.

Do you think Biden is going to run? My wild guess is that if the party feels Hilary will struggle in the general election (I think she'd win the primary against Bernie by a landslide), Biden will get in, and he's going to pick Apache Chief as his running mate. I want to like Biden, but he led the despicable attacks against Clarence Thomas. I'm also, as you could probably guess, not a huge fan of people who say they are Catholic yet also say they are rabidly pro-abortion. You cannot be both of those things. But his decision on whether or not to enter, is fascinating to me.

Meantime in a mommuth poll in Iowa today, Ben Carson has tied Trump 23% with
Carly Farina gaining 10%. Pretty good indication people are tired of the same old same old Washington politicians. With the conservative, well liked Ben Carson and the CEO business history of Carly sounds like a good team.

Too soon to tell,but beats the 3 busted valises the Dems are offering.

Yes, let's ponder the state of the GOP...Last time I checked, the GOP absolutely demolished the Dems less than one year ago in the last national election. It was an historic drubbing. Am I remembering that wrong? The GOP currently has both houses of congress, a majority of governorships, and a majority of state legislatures. And I'm supposed to believe the party is in tatters because Bill Maher and Rachael Maddow desperately want me to believe that?

There are a lot of things I wish the GOP did differently at the national level. And given certain demographic shifts, the GOP may find itself struggling unless they make progress with the Hispanic vote. But that's not unrealistic, as Bush did fine with Hispanics. Enter Marco Rubio.

So your team gets a great general manager, and he manages to entice a lot of superstars to join the team. And there is great joy in Mudville as the prospects for the coming season are fabulous considering how your team has filled positions with the best.

Opening day . . . hurray . . . look at our roster . . . let's kick butt all the way to the pennant.

OK . . . so the first few games got away from us . . . but it'll take a little time for the new team to jell. OK . . . All Star break and were in the middle of the pack . . . actually near the bottom . . . but we'll catch fire, no doubt, with all that talent, and tear through the rest of the season like the juggernaut we are . . . should be . . . with all that talent.

Pukes . . . they're a bunch a prima donna pukes . . . season down the toilet and all we got are an over-paid bunch of loafers . . . get the bums outta here . . .

The point of filling all those electoral positions with Republicans is not merely to fill them, but to do what was promised in order to get elected.

If, instead, all those political superstars are content merely to hold power, and afraid to lose it if they actually not only rock the boat, but steer it in the opposite direction that those they defeated coursed it, and prefer to safely stay the course . . . then . . . it's like mighty Casey has struck out.

All those victories you point to have put the Republicans in the precarious position of having to deliver the goods they promised us. If they don't . . . the team may have to get rebuilt.

So far, they seem rather anemic. Trump appeals because he appears to be strong. And he scares the Republican establishment. Their cowardice in not using the power of the purse to block what they promised to get rid of, and letting all the crap that Obama and the Dems have put on us become entrenched, on the one hand, and the fear of Trump on the other, is not attractive. There is a small positive indication, because they fear Trump, and the lackluster showing of their preferred candidates in the polls, that actual "conservatives" such as Cruz may not only be acceptable, but a buffer against Trump's destruction of their wishy-washy Dem-lite path to maintaining power.

Detbuch, believe me I hear you. Lots of things I wish they did differently (better). They aren't nearly as effective as they could/should be. But what I was responding to, was the notion that we're all a bunch of extremist kooks like Trump, and that we're becoming irrelevant. Lawrence O'Donnell said 2 nights ago that the fact that Trump is in the lead, is evidence of "why Republican can't win any elections anymore". This guy has his own show, and he says something that demonstrably false (again, remember last November?) and no one challenges him.

Our candidates have not performed as expected. Our agenda is still superior, in every way agendas can be compared, to the democratic agenda, at least at the national level.

Detbuch, believe me I hear you. Lots of things I wish they did differently (better). They aren't nearly as effective as they could/should be. But what I was responding to, was the notion that we're all a bunch of extremist kooks like Trump, and that we're becoming irrelevant. Lawrence O'Donnell said 2 nights ago that the fact that Trump is in the lead, is evidence of "why Republican can't win any elections anymore". This guy has his own show, and he says something that demonstrably false (again, remember last November?) and no one challenges him.

Our candidates have not performed as expected. Our agenda is still superior, in every way agendas can be compared, to the democratic agenda, at least at the national level.

There are "agendas" and there are, as Spence might say, "systems." Agendas can be a written list, adhered to or not. Or they can be a litany of spoken promises, adhered to or not. Agendas which are not adhered to are basically lies. Deceptions which amount to no more than ideological holograms meant to attract votes.

Of our two main parties, the Democrats are more faithful to their agenda than are the Republicans. Which is not to say that the Democrats are more honest. Though their agenda is obvious, they have had to lie (less and less over time) that it is an American agenda. One that is good for notions of freedom, free trade, historic American values, and supports our Constitution and its founding principles. The Progressive agenda, from its beginning, has been the opposite of all those things. It has actually been an expansion of European socialism functioning through a copy of nineteenth century European administrative statism. After having to lie for votes the past few decades, the true nature of Progressivism is now more open for view. The quasi-American leaders of the party are more and more giving way to its far left proponents. And it is openly so. There are no more Scoop Jacksons or Sam Nunns in the party. Even Joe Lieberman does not fit in.

The Republican establishment leaders do not oppose the Democrat statists in reality. Just by promises. Verbal holograms meant to get votes. Give us the House, and things will change. Well, then, we now also need for you to give us the Senate. All right then . . . ok . . . now we also need for you to give us the Presidency. THEN things will change. Maybe. But really? That may depend more on the "system" than the promised agenda. As attested to by the "far right conservative" who is forecasting the death of the Republican Party:

http://www.redstate.com/2015/09/01/naming-names-a-more-precise-look-at-why-the-republican-party-is-dying/?utm_source=rsmorningbriefing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl

That may not be all bad. Just as Whigs were transformed into the Republicans more on an "agenda" basis rather than a systemic one, the current Republican Party can be transformed or replaced again by crushing the "system" and adhering to an American Constitutional agenda.

So far, a Ted Cruz candidacy and election would be a major step in that direction. If he is as incorruptible as he seems