Anyone else watch this last night on HBO. Pretty intense. Doc said small town New England has the worst Heroin problem in the country and seems to only be getting worse. Pretty eye opening.

Yes, I watched this. Very sad and rough and must watch for everyone IMO. 1250 deaths in Massachusetts last year due to OD on opiates.

As someone with family members with addiction it is very hard to watch.

&&&&&&&&&&&& that,s a surprize to you ????:wid:

Vermont has been devastated by heroin.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/02/vermont-heroin-capital-of-america-103280

To quote Chris Herron "No one starts out with a needle in their arm. They start with a beer and a couple of tokes in a friend's basement."

Not so sure legalization of pot is a good idea....the jury is still out on this one.

&&&&&&&&&&&& that,s a surprize to you ????:wid:


Did you see it?

Vermont has been devastated by heroin.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/02/vermont-heroin-capital-of-america-103280

To quote Chris Herron "No one starts out with a needle in their arm. They start with a beer and a couple of tokes in a friend's basement."

Not so sure legalization of pot is a good idea....the jury is still out on this one.


Also stated that the legalization of pot has forced the drug cartels to push more bad Heroin batches into the states. not sure how accurate that is but...

80% of the subjects in the film started by accidents and painkillers. Car accident, dirt bike, motorcycle, ect. Got addcited to Vics, to oxy, to heroin.

80% of the subjects in the film started by accidents and painkillers. Car accident, dirt bike, motorcycle, ect. Got addcited to Vics, to oxy, to heroin.

Wow that's a high percentage of the total addicts that go from, I'm assuming, non-drug abusers to heroin addicts. Why the huge increase in heroin addicts from prescription pain killers that have been around for a long time? What are doctors doing that is different - if anything? My mom was recently on pain killers for her back and they would only give her a few days supply at a time.

I say if they need the pain killers give them to them rather than have them have to resort to heroin. There are plenty of people who function fine while they take pain killers. Look at Rush Limbaugh addicted to oxygen and yet no one knew.
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Eventually you run out of places to get scripts filled, and painkillers are expensive if bought off the street. Heroine is cheaper than a pack of cigarettes.
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My wife has been waitin for this to come on
My sister in law has been battlin it for a few years, in and out of rehab, and we have had her 5 yr old for over a year and a half. Not long ago it seemed to be bad in fall river and new bedford, now its worse everywhere. My mom is an rn in the er in plymouth. she says on a slow nite they have 10 ods they zappin with narcan. A lot of the time its the same people again and again
For the past few months my wife has been on a vigalante crusade since she moved from urgent care to family practice to weed out pill mules. She wont renew opiate scripts until patient takes urine to confirm they r actually takin em instead of just fillin and sellin. She said it is incredible how many people either dont have any in their system or actually have heroin and coke instead
Just out of control everywhere
The hardest part is the family dealin with the destruction to others caused by an addict
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To quote Chris Herron "No one starts out with a needle in their arm. They start with a beer and a couple of tokes in a friend's basement.".

Very true and those that do a few tokes every day do not want to admit that too leads to the needle....Ohio in 2014 is the biggest user of opiates 2,482 deaths....some one here stated let them stay on pain pills, not strong enough and that is Y they seek heroin....heroin is the cheapest for addicts to get, also has put the crack dealers out of business

Gloucester police started a rehabilation program to help addicts...if they stay with the program and heal there drug record will be sealed and other cities across the country have taken up this program...if addicts come in willfully no arrest and R put into the program...drug dealers will end up in jail.....it's about time the addict(user) is not given a jail sentence.....here in Gloucester people in this program R turning in dealers....maybe your city or town should start this program....:)

I also believe the medical community and especially doctors need to be accountable for the scripts they write at the drop of a hat. Oxys and other opioids are used/prescribed way too much. When my daughter was hospitalized last summer with Lyme, she couldn't get the ibuprofen to stay down. No problem, they said. We'll just give you a morphine drip.... I was up and saying WTF?

Weed leads to heroin addiction?
Lol.
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I also believe the medical community and especially doctors need to be accountable for the scripts they write at the drop of a hat. Oxys and other opioids are used/prescribed way too much. When my daughter was hospitalized last summer with Lyme, she couldn't get the ibuprofen to stay down. No problem, they said. We'll just give you a morphine drip.... I was up and saying WTF?
I fully agree that they r handed out way too much and easily.
My wife is a nurse practioner and just went to work for several doctors. Several of them were doin that, just handed out perks etc like it was halloween. I have asked her if the any of the doctors are now complainin that they are losin patients because of her tactic. She says not really and she doesnt care cause she not gonna jepordize her licenses. They say no because apparently when these patients sign on they sign an agreeement that they can only have pills prescribed bybthem, filled at only one and the same pharmacy, and at any time can be urine/ and or blood tested to confirm personal use of narcotics. Violation of agreement reults in automatic refusal for further medical treatment from her facilty

She is off today and just checked her patient log from yesterday. Just caught 2 more "ex-clients". Both came back positive for coke and no opiodes in systems even tho they have both been being prescibed 120 perks a mth by one of the doctors for the past few months
She had 2 last week. 1said her husband must have been sneakin coke into her cigerettes. A guy simply said oh well, it is what it is
Sure they will just find new docs to write them scripts
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This was a sad show,heroine will soon become like cancer.
Everyone will know a family that has been affected to a degree.

I have to say Flyrods weed statement was one of the dumbest I have read here,ever.
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RRRRRRRRRRR....UUUUUUUU can tell the pot heads.....:)

lost to many good people to Hot Shots
(cocaine/heroin combo)

if you have to point fingers the blame squarely falls in
the FDA arena for the prescription drug epidemic
so large............
it's as bad as the drought in california

Raven their was a heroin problem a long time before kids decided to abuse opiates, and blame their physicians.
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[QUOTE=Raven;1089512]lost to many good people to Hot Shots
(cocaine/heroin combo)

if you have to point fingers the blame squarely falls in
the FDA arena for the prescription drug epidemic
so large............
it's as bad as the drought in california[/QUO


Always someone else's fault........
Guess the breakdown of the family, divorce rate, both parents (if they are even together) working full time jobs and no one home with the kids in their formative years has anything to do with it.
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[QUOTE=Raven;1089512]lost to many good people to Hot Shots
(cocaine/heroin combo)

if you have to point fingers the blame squarely falls in
the FDA arena for the prescription drug epidemic
so large............
it's as bad as the drought in california[/QUO


Always someone else's fault........
Guess the breakdown of the family, divorce rate, both parents (if they are even together) working full time jobs and no one home with the kids in their formative years has anything to do with it.
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Totally agree. I would think it has to do with feeling hopeless and having very little to live for.
I did not watch this show and don't know much about this epidemic but I think that the price of heroin is rediculously cheap and people who have picked up an oxy addiction gravitate to heroin because they can afford it.
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Weed leads to heroin addiction?
Lol.
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I think the jury is still out on that one. It all depends on who your friends are
and how deep they get into the harder drugs. These kids are so influenced and
wanting to be accepted by their peers they are like sheep.

I had a sister in law who started on pot and went the route to cocaine with an early death 6 years ago.
I have no doubt she would have gone to heroin if she had still been around today
with the recent explosion of heroin and it's cheap price.

Her problems started with hanging around the wrong dead head people.
Slippery slope, slippery slope.

RRRRRRRRRRR....UUUUUUUU can tell the pot heads.....:)

Agreed, but unfortunately I have enough knowledge to point out what was nothing but an opinion which is based on nothing but ignorance. It is an addiction that sadly doesn't discriminate the way you describe.
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[QUOTE=Raider Ronnie;1089516]

I did not watch this show .I think that the price of heroin is rediculously cheap and people who have picked up an oxy addiction gravitate to heroin because they can afford it.
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yep.... didn't need to watch a show
....saw it first hand out west....

crystal meth is way "out of control" too

they are like a run away disease that the CDC
cannot even begin to deal with

The idea that weed leads to heroin addiction is absurd. I haven't used it in years on account of my Captain's license, but when I did I never felt compelled to take it further than that. It's no different than a guy cracking some beers after a long day of work, except without the debilitating effects of alcohol. I think some people walk a path of bad decisions that starts out with weed or booze, ever searching for more a more "effective" means of disconnecting with reality. It's a disease, I suppose. I agree with the painkiller addiction theory as well, in that people receive them for an injury of sorts, become addicted, can't afford them, and then resort to cheaper means to satiate the gnawing addiction. A terrible thing for sure.
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Blaming weed for heroin problems is saying surf casting leads to offshore tuna fishing. :hihi:
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Its everyplace and its cheap , 25 dollars to get high with the option of death mixed in.
We lost a member of the family this past summer. College degree out on a friday night ,all star baseball player
It can happen.........
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The idea that weed leads to heroin addiction is absurd. I haven't used it in years on account of my Captain's license, but when I did I never felt compelled to take it further than that. It's no different than a guy cracking some beers after a long day of work, except without the debilitating effects of alcohol. I think some people walk a path of bad decisions that starts out with weed or booze, ever searching for more a more "effective" means of disconnecting with reality. It's a disease, I suppose. I agree with the painkiller addiction theory as well, in that people receive them for an injury of sorts, become addicted, can't afford them, and then resort to cheaper means to satiate the gnawing addiction. A terrible thing for sure.
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Far from being absurd. There are those with addictive personalities that once
started, wether it be food , alcohol or drugs have to start somewhere including the reasons I mentioned above.

Then there are those that are not happy and use to escape their problems
and continue to escape by using. It's more complicated then cut and dry.
Of course those who use want to deny it started with chochlate, beer or pot, but denial is part of the addictive personality.

I'm not saying the majority who have smoked pot go further, but there are those that do for many different reasons if they indulge. You have to start somewhere.

Far from being absurd. There are those with addictive personalities that once
started, wether it be food , alcohol or drugs have to start somewhere including the reasons I mentioned above.

Then there are those that are not happy and use to escape their problems
and continue to escape by using. It's more complicated then cut and dry.
Of course those who use want to deny it started with chochlate, beer or pot, but denial is part of the addictive personality.

I'm not saying the majority who have smoked pot go further, but there are those that do for many different reasons if they indulge. You have to start somewhere.

Your argument is valid, just as blaming guns is a valid point for gun control.
It's the person who makes the decision to do what he or she does who is to blame.
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I took a couple tokes before I saw Star Wars. i think I'll be OK on the heroin epidemic.

This only my opinion, but from what Ive seen first hand from guys i went to school with who went down this path, and a few have died, is that they started from popping pills. They became addicted to oxys. When they couldnt afford anymore Oxys after pawning and stealing everything in their parents home they switched to heroin. I played sports with these guys growing up and now i read their names in the police reports. Its a shame. Addiction is a scary thing.

I feel worse for their parents.
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I am in the MAJORITY
I hate all pills
UNLESS
they are VITAMINS

I feel worse for their parents.
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My wife's aunt and uncle lost their youngest son to an OD just under a year ago. He had been in and out of rehabs for years and it finally seemed to be working. 2 plus years clean, and then he gets a call from an old "friend". He died later that night with his girlfriend trying to break down the bathroom door to save him. Saddest funeral I've ever been to. We were with his parents on Christmas and they're still struggling and partly blaming themselves for what happened.

And for the record, he never smoked pot and wasn't much of a drinker. He got hooked on pain meds after a construction accident when he was in his early 20's.
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. It is an addiction that sadly doesn't discriminate the way you describe.
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I know it does not discriminate from rich or poor, young or old....I know that people take drugs to get rid of unwanted situations or feelings.....the majority of addicts start with over prescribed pain meds from the medical field, other pills come from florida and where ever and sold on the streets.....some marijuana users when the high fades the user may turn to stronger drugs and heroin would B one of them....the gloucester police department has helped 20 or more people get into rehabilitation facilities, not all R from Gloucester, some come from surrouding communities


http://gloucesterpd.com/addicts/

The blame lies within......and no place else!

The blame lies within......and no place else!

Come on Larry, you know we are living in times that everything is someone else's fault, someone else's job, someone else's problem......
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Blaming weed for heroin problems is saying surf casting leads to offshore tuna fishing. :hihi:
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No - that only happens 20% of the time

And for the record, he never smoked pot and wasn't much of a drinker. He got hooked on pain meds after a construction accident when he was in his early 20's.
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OK FB, I can see that, but what's the route to cocaine and meth?
I can't believe the majority of people just start on meth and cocaine ?

OK FB, I can see that, but what's the route to cocaine and meth?
I can't believe the majority of people just start on meth and cocaine ?

Smoking weed is not Physicly addictive. It can be mentally. Your body does not writhe in agony craving your next bong hit. (Right dangles? :hihi: )

Life debilitating addiction like heroin is usually started by mental illness or a physical issue that required pain meds.

I used to smoke a lot when I was a teen and never once felt that I needed the "next step". But others who did had something going on.. Depression, some cases just boredom from the monotony of life or just stupidity and wanting to be the "cool guy".

Marijuana if fully legalized and if fully understood could save civilization. Hemp based plastics and paper could help put more o2 into the atmosphere and take less oil out of the ground to make oil based plastic , plus it's biodegradable.

If everyone just smoked a doobie every night, I can assure you that there would be less violence in this world, let alone other health benefits. The key is to respect it and not abuse it.
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When I was younger I would try anything including Coke or shrooms,even acid. I have never seen meth or heroine and I am glad they were not options when I used bad judgement. My son is a freshman in college and I trust him to make good decisions but I also understand he is curious about things like all kids. Moderation is not a word used commonly in college but when I talk to him about drugs and heroine in particular, I stress good judgement. He shakes his head and asks if I think he wants to die. The word is out via education and the stories everyone has shared regarding the inevitable outcome. Recently we had a young serviceman in town succumb to heroine who thought he was invincible.
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OK FB, I can see that, but what's the route to cocaine and meth?
I can't believe the majority of people just start on meth and cocaine ?

Alcohol leads to bad choices yet its use is somewhat celebrated and for some reason seems to be a drug that many don't see as that much of a problem. If I could have sued the manufacturers who made the alcohol for alot of my bad choices I would be a rich man, and my finger would still work. It was the combination of getting labeled a pothead by the football coach in high school in front of the whole team and alcohol that finally made me try pot.
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My wife has been waitin for this to come on
My sister in law has been battlin it for a few years, in and out of rehab, and we have had her 5 yr old for over a year and a half. Not long ago it seemed to be bad in fall river and new bedford, now its worse everywhere. My mom is an rn in the er in plymouth. she says on a slow nite they have 10 ods they zappin with narcan. A lot of the time its the same people again and again
For the past few months my wife has been on a vigalante crusade since she moved from urgent care to family practice to weed out pill mules. She wont renew opiate scripts until patient takes urine to confirm they r actually takin em instead of just fillin and sellin. She said it is incredible how many people either dont have any in their system or actually have heroin and coke instead
Just out of control everywhere
The hardest part is the family dealin with the destruction to others caused by an addict
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Filling and selling goes on everywhere including elderly housing.
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Smoking weed is not Physicly addictive. It can be mentally. Your body does not writhe in agony craving your next bong hit. (Right dangles? :hihi: )

Life debilitating addiction like heroin is usually started by mental illness or a physical issue that required pain meds.

I used to smoke a lot when I was a teen and never once felt that I needed the "next step". But others who did had something going on.. Depression, some cases just boredom from the monotony of life or just stupidity and wanting to be the "cool guy".

Marijuana if fully legalized and if fully understood could save civilization. Hemp based plastics and paper could help put more o2 into the atmosphere and take less oil out of the ground to make oil based plastic , plus it's biodegradable.

If everyone just smoked a doobie every night, I can assure you that there would be less violence in this world, let alone other health benefits. The key is to respect it and not abuse it.
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I hear you Nebe. It's been mentioned here that people get hooked on Oxy
because they were prescribed it and get addicted. I know some are addiction prone. But I still don't follow a route for others that end up on meth, cocaine and onto heroin because it's cheaper without having used other mind altering drugs like pot before.
It has to start somewhere and I would venture to say most smoked pot along the way to the heavier drug. It only makes sense, I doubt someone just wakes up one morning and say's I think I'll take some
meth today.
More likely they have gotten in with the wrong crowd where within the culture heavier drugs are available. It's a crap shoot.

If it wasn't due to prescription pills I feel it starts with underage drinking of alcohol. We all went to or knew of many parties where underage excessive drinking took place during our teenage years. Nobody starts with pot before alcohol.
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^ truth !
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I find catching a BIG fish to be a mind altering DRUG.

afterwards, I want more and more. I am Hooked for life.

it all started with that first cast....

with that said....
I thought moving 250 miles North
would get me far enough away from
the reach of Heroin and yet during the first
month of living in "Farm Country" a guy
got busted for it just down the road... :hs:
so...there's NO escape

http://www.weather.com/series/crazimals/video/salmon-stolen-from-fishermans-line

with that said....
I thought moving 250 miles North
would get me far enough away from
the reach of Heroin and yet during the first
month of living in "Farm Country" a guy
got busted for it just down the road... :hs:
so...there's NO escape

http://www.weather.com/series/crazimals/video/salmon-stolen-from-fishermans-line

You got that right, Rav, It's an epidemic wherever you go and it's a bear to
treat. I read somewhere that a recovery rate is something like 30%.

What a waste of life and like Professor M. said he feels sorry for the parents.
It ruins their life too. What a freekin nightmare.

In the end there is nothing like a natural high in appreciation of nature and the
right friends and family around you. Ask a recovered alcoholic if they are enjoying their life more
without the drug and most will say they still get urges to drink but they are enjoying life more and a lot better.

It is everywhere now a days. When you read the obit section of the newspaper and someone under 40 dies unexpectedly there is a real good chance it was on OD. My bosses neighbors lost both of their sons to OD's.

I found a needle out on block in the parking lot to the north light. It is everywhere. You can see the addicts all over the place, its really sad. I was hooked on Vicodin in my early 20's, my doc refused to refill me anymore after a back injury. I was so pissed but thanked him a few months later. I am glad heroin wasn't around back then. IT surfaced in Michigan a couple years after i moved out here in a big way. A buddy of mine was found in a motel dead of an OD. There is a chance i would have tried it and lord knows what would have happened.

The drug dealers/cartels are not dummies. They know there is a huge demand for the product. They ramp up production and make it cheap and readily available. The consumer is happy to buy even knowing there is a good chance they will die.

I'm glad the Governor is taking this problem seriously. Part of the solution is treatment. I like what they are doing in Gloucester. Obviously what we are doing now isn't working. I'm all open for ideas as i am sure the Governor is.

I work in the state detox in Bridgewater for the past 20 years the new drugs come in waves when I started it was mostly alcohol abuse with some heroin addicts then we had the big Crack epidemic then the huffing then the benzo's now its gone full circle most of the heroin guys are 18 -35 they are committed 30-90 days and come back 3-20 time most they dont want treatment.. Most didn't start using by accident , most of them its what they do for fun its their life style

And sadly the only reason its such a big deal its affecting Affluent white kids out on the cape.. and else where while Crack was seen as a city issue and no one cared

This is just my historical experience Sadly Time and education will be the only things to put a dent in the problem

Most didn't start using by accident , most of them its what they do for fun its their life style



that right there says a LOT, these addicts have to take responsibility. It's the only "disease" I know that people choose to have.

Still - we need to also declare an all out war on these kinds of drugs in general, we simply aren't doing enough.

Some may view this as immoral but as long as narcan becomes more and more available there is a greater chance for the same folks to keep od'in. In the old days u were one and done.
My sister in law has been in and out of rehab in fall river several times. She started on coke then went to heroin when she hit 30. Just woke up one day amd said gee im gonna shoot some heroin. A total waste.good family up bringing. Tufts gradute. 6 figure job as an engineer for government. Lost it all and got knocked up by her POS drug dealer that already had 5 kids with 6 different women.
Rehab is an f'n joke. She has mass health ( of course). Each time only covers 7 day detox and a 14 day residential rehab then its back to the streets and do optional out patient rehab. And she has no car to get to or from outpatient rehab. A joke
i have heard of very few ever kickin heroin, let a lone in 3 weeks.
Next time im drivin her azz to glouscter..:: lashed to the rod holders on The front of my truck
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Lost it all and got knocked up by her POS drug dealer that already had 5 kids with 6 different women.
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Wow, that's crazy!
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Junkies are as good as dead. Watched it all happen as a child, teenager, and adult. And still watching it get worse as we are enabling them with narcan. I have seen people shoot up and die since I was a young child. I have lost many friends to death and jail. Once they are on dope they are as good as dead. Sad but true! The doctors aren't helping with the #^&#^&#^&#^& they prescribe to people. It's poison! And a beginning to a death sentence. And this goes back before Oxys to heroin.
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A lot of what I've read in this thread hits close to home. My wife admitted herself to detox for alcohol (lockdown, random urine and blood tests, the whole nine yards) for two weeks, followed by four weeks outpatient. Getting the booze out of the house and substituting O'doules for the real thing when I need a taste of hops and barley was no problem. Right after outpatient ended and on schedule each evening I noticed she'd disappear into the bedroom and I'd smell a scented candle and air freshener and it didn't take long to figure out she was smoking pot (so far, that's the routine so I just monitor and don't say a word). She smoked recreationally but not regularly prior to that and I know she gets it from her niece, who thinks she's earned a doctor of cannabis degree and knows more than the real doctors (again, right now I monitor and keep my mouth shut, but that she listens really pisses me off). I do worry that as she's weaning herself off the drugs prescribed for detox there's the chance she may want something more to fill the void. We'll see. What is more concerning is that when she's obviously "smoked" she doesn't realize it changes her such that she'll bite the head off anyone who doesn't agree with her about something or doesn't say how high when she says jump. Also very obvious she has difficulty focusing on one thing and jumps from task to task often never finishing any. Since I'm currently on hiatus from the work world I have the time to keep an eye on her and find excuses to ride along when she's off from work and needs to run errands (that part is actually making us closer). But it is a bit of a quandary, when you're basically spying on your wife, in limbo just waiting to see if there's a "what next" in my future. Not sure if I ever count on her having it under control or if or when I should confront her, of if I just say "live and let live" and go fishing. But the Cape Heroin show and you guys sure have given me a lot to think about. It's a lovely world we live in!

Junkies are as good as dead. Watched it all happen as a child, teenager, and adult. And still watching it get worse as we are enabling them with narcan. I have seen people shoot up and die since I was a young child. I have lost many friends to death and jail. Once they are on dope they are as good as dead. Sad but true! The doctors aren't helping with the #^&#^&#^&#^& they prescribe to people. It's poison! And a beginning to a death sentence. And this goes back before Oxys to heroin.
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I have to agree..... a lot of the people I knew as a teenager are gone. Including a close friend who once offered me a chance to try heroin. Broke off our friendship that very day. He's long since passed away.
My niece is in Framingham right now, started with pills, now hooked on heroin. The situation seems hopeless and the fear is she will be using within days of being released. Sadly I don't think she will make it. My wife and I have reached out to help her many times even letting her live with us and keeping a close eye on her, took her fishing with me many times. and tried to show her there is another way to live. She ended up stealing from us and...went on to break into houses and do other things to support her habit.
When valuables started to go missing I defended her......couldn't believe this precious little girl we watched grow up would end up this way.

Still - we need to also declare an all out war on these kinds of drugs in general, we simply aren't doing enough.

going to war with Mexico....

the poppies producing the substance that makes heroin aren't being
grown in Mexico.... they are just "excellent smugglers"

crystal meth is being produced here and there .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
B.T.W. Ginko Biloba herb reduces the heady part of cannabis
allowing just the body high (relaxation part) to occur

Dietary Changes ... for detox are to eat (drink) wheatgrass as
a source of chlorophyll that's what detox's the body besides activated charcoal. (not abstinence)
problem is chlorophyll is quite strong tasting so you have to
add apple (for sweetness) celery (full of water) and most importantly
carrots to make the chlorophyll taste good :point: USING a JUICER.

LACK of greens in the diet makes one a "FAULT finder"
it's basically a lack of Vitamin K

some very sad stories here, I too have lost good friends from this horrible epidemic its horrible to see the decline, especially of people that had so much potential.

Jimbo - not telling you how to live your life, but it sounds like you do need to keep a very close eye on your wife to make sure she doesn't go down this road and you would need to speak up if the time comes.

Nobody starts with pot before alcohol.
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You would be surprised.....

Sadly, some of the terms expressed in this thread, "hopeless situation" "epidemic" "disease" only seem to be growing. In the mid-70's in high school it was, for me it was more or less just a foreign term for something taboo, touched on in health class. In college in my fraternity house, occasionally someone would "score a nickel or dime bag" (Does anyone even use that phrase means now-a-days). I tried it in college, and found it had little effect on me and the .10 cent beers from the tap were a much better investment on my limited budget. After college a lot of the folks my wife and I were friendly would produce had cigar boxes full of it or other snortable recreants, usually with some quasi-medicinal benefit "...dude, it's cut with some good $#it man," which, upon learning the good $#it was crystalized horse tranquilizers, turned me off even more and cost me some once good friends. Then our kids grew up and practically every week in the police blotter I'd read and still do about one of their friends getting arrested for narcotics possession or distribution, and my kids shrugged it off as nothing more than a minor bust. Now if I ask my kids how so-and-so from high school is doing these days, I'm apt to hear they're in rehab or they died and it doesn't seem to be that upsetting to them. And, as Raven and others have alluded, you (me too, in my situation) can't get even away from it. REO Speedwagon said we gotta roll with the changes; I just don't have it in me.