American Civil Liberties Union, which filed the suit claims discriminatory reasons for, "muslim free zone....how quickly some americans forget how the 9/11 terroist trained in our country to fly the 747's....california terroist trained with a friend at a range prior to their attack of fellow workers....should they or not allow muslims at gun rangers?



http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/muslim-man-sues-oklahoma-gun-range-for-refusing-him-service/ar-BBpDDKI?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=EIE9HP

My heart says, no you can't discriminate against Muslims in this situation. But my brain says, if you own a private company or a private club , You should be able to hire or exclude anybody. It's your choice .
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Exchange Muslim for Jew and go back to the late 1930's Germany. How'd that work out?
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Exchange Muslim for Jew and go back to the late 1930's Germany. How'd that work out?
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I'm sorry, I missed the part of history when the Jews were attacking the Germans in a jihad .
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Exchange Muslim for Jew and go back to the late 1930's Germany. How'd that work out?
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Nebe, unless you can show us evidence that the German Jews were flying jets into buildings in Berlin, that comparison is deeply, deeply flawed.

That said, i don't like it.

I'm sorry, I missed the part of history when the Jews were attacking the Germans in a jihad .
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Ding ding ding!! We have a winner...

I'm sorry, I missed the part of history when the Jews were attacking the Germans in a jihad .
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Ummmm, might want to revisit your history books there buck.

Ummmm, might want to revisit your history books there buck.

What are you saying? That the Jews represented a similar threat to Germans in 1935, as the Muslims represent to America today?

With the proper propaganda and lies that were spread by the nazi party, Jews were made out to be just as great a threat to German national security as Muslim extremists are today. Also a bombing by Helmut Hirsch was used as a 9/11 type event to further rally Germans to unite and protect the home land. (Heard that one before?)
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What are you saying? That the Jews represented a similar threat to Germans in 1935, as the Muslims represent to America today?
Hitler sure was able to convince a lot of Germans that they were.

Let's also remember the German embassy attack in Paris on November 7, 1938, a young Polish Jew, Herschel Grynszpan shot a few German officers in retribution to how his parents were being treated in Germany. Holy mackerel.... BENGHAZI!!!!!!!
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Hitler sure was able to convince a lot of Germans that they were.

But the fact is, the Jews WEREN'T a serious threat to german national security in 1935. Today in America, the Muslim community (a small part of it) is absolutely a threat.

Are you kidding?

Let's also remember the German embassy attack in Paris on November 7, 1938, a young Polish Jew, Herschel Grynszpan shot a few German officers in retribution to how his parents were being treated in Germany. Holy mackerel.... BENGHAZI!!!!!!!
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Nebe, are you suggetsing that the Jews started this fight with the Nazis? And that the Nazis acted in self defense?

No. I'm suggesting that the Germans used a series of events made by a small handful of Jews to completely alienate an entire religious group. Now all German Jews were a threat. Just as.... Wait for it...... Wait for it........ All Muslims are being seen by some as a threat.
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I edited my last post to be a little more clear. I await a rebuttal as to why I am wrong.
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Hitler sure was able to convince a lot of Germans that they were.

So who's the " Hitler " now ?
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So who's the " Hitler " now ?
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The religious right
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No. I'm suggesting that the Germans used a series of events made by a small handful of Jews to completely alienate an entire religious group. Now all German Jews were a threat. Just as.... Wait for it...... Wait for it........ All Muslims are being seen by some as a threat.
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Are you equating todays terrorism with a "handful of events " ?
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Actually maybe it is the .oo1% of wealthy people in the country that is manipulating the religious right through the GOP to push an agenda of deregulation. Or something like that ;)
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The religious right
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That's off the charts insane !
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Are you equating todays terrorism with a "handful of events " ?
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Nope.
All I'm saying is you should open your eyes
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I edited my last post to be a little more clear. I await a rebuttal as to why I am wrong.
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In this case, I could fill the Pacific Ocean with reasons why you are wrong.

The Jews represented no large-scale threat to innocent Germans, at the time the Nazis began the roundups. Today, Muslims (a small group of Muslims) absolutely represent a serious threat to us. Please don't take my word for it, listen to what they are saying, watch what they are doing. No comparison whatsoever. Hitler was lying when he said "some Jews are a threat". I am not lying when I say "a small part of the Muslim community is a serious threat."

The American Christian right is Hitler, are we? Hmmm. How many innocent people have been murdered by the "religious right" in the last 20 years? Who is the Pope, as well as evangelical leaders, targeting for slaughter, exactly? Who have we declared jihad against?

"All Muslims are being seen by some as a threat."

Who are these "some" you are referring to? Who says that all Muslims are a threat? Someone with credibility, and a large following? Even Trump has said many times that most Muslims are swell, so I hope that's not who you are referring to. Same with Bush. I await your reply. Please tell us who says that all Muslims are a threat.

Nope.
All I'm saying is you should open your eyes
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All I'm saying is, your new neighbor, the AK-47 toting Muslim that likes to go to the gun range every Saturday , would open your eyes .
And if you're saying it would not , then you're lying
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I'm pretty sure there are plenty of Muslims who own guns in this country who are peaceful. All? No. But most are. Keep drinking the cool aid
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In fact I was at addeville shooting sporting clays last year next to 2 saudi guys in their 20's. They were super cool guys.
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In fact I was at addeville shooting sporting clays last year next to 2 saudi guys in their 20's. They were super cool guys.
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I have no doubt. One of my hunting buddies is a Muslim. I don't know if you saw my first response in this thread.
Nowadays it's just a matter of being careful .
Do you remember after 9/11 we were being asked to be on guard for Middle Eastern looking men driving yellow box trucks ? It wasn't being racist, it was being prudent .
I'm not really drinking the Kool-Aid, just being a realist .
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Just so this debate isn't one sided , do you think Muslims could be convinced by radical Islam that they should attack Christians ? I assume that you do
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Do you remember after 9/11 we were being asked to be on guard for Middle Eastern looking men driving yellow box trucks ? It wasn't being racist, it was being prudent .
Actually that was Oklahoma City.

Actually that was Oklahoma City.

I think it was the first attack by radical Islam on the trade center.

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you what's funny, we have these discussions but nobody every changes their mind about anything. This is true on facebook too. If anything it just strengthens each side's beliefs. Maybe that is why these discussions are worth it? Don't get me wrong I like to mix it up as much as the next guy, but with all the legit craziness going on on Facebook, I'm beginning to question if its even worth it!

i consider facebook a threat

I take Facebook as entertainment....anybody that takes it seriously is a few lures shy of a full tackle box
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Most deaths from murders are people of the same race or ethnic back ground

Black kill blacks Whites kill whites Hispanics kill Hispanics

and Musulims kill Muslims ( not a race )

occasionally these groups kill people outside their circle and the % is so tiny...

But the Fear that it is going to Happen YOU is Just unrealistic

But its reinforced By propaganda not facts . and the un informed run with it

“Since 9/11, foreign-inspired terrorism has claimed about two dozen lives in the United States. (Meanwhile, more than 100,000 have been killed in gun homicides and more than 400,000 in motor-vehicle accidents.) “

Most deaths from murders are people of the same race or ethnic back ground

Black kill blacks Whites kill whites Hispanics kill Hispanics

and Musulims kill Muslims ( not a race )

occasionally these groups kill people outside their circle and the % is so tiny...

But the Fear that it is going to Happen YOU is Just unrealistic

But its reinforced By propaganda not facts . and the un informed run with it

“Since 9/11, foreign-inspired terrorism has claimed about two dozen lives in the United States. (Meanwhile, more than 100,000 have been killed in gun homicides and more than 400,000 in motor-vehicle accidents.) “

"“Since 9/11"

Convenient to start tracking this, the day after 09/11...I bet that if you excluded all the days when there were terrorist attacks, the number of people killed by terrorists would be pretty darn low.

"But the Fear that it is going to Happen YOU is Just unrealistic "

True, for now. And in 1943, the chances of an American civilian being killed by the Nazis or the Japanese was also pretty low. But we were at war then (as we are now), and we had to deal with it.

Also, I'm not worried about a low-level crook in my town getting a nuclear weapon. We need to prevent jihadists from getting one, because if they did, they would use it 10 seconds later.

Street crime happens. But street criminals haven't dcelared war on the law-abiding.

I don't think anyone who wants to be aggressive against jihadists, has ever hinted that we don't also need to be vigilant about everyday, garden-variety street crime. The problem is, liberals are as wrong on how to deal with domestic crime (assume it goes away with gun restrictions, blame white people, and throw money at the problem, and tell the criminals that it isn't their fault), as they are on how to deal with terrorists (pretend the problem doesn't exist).

Thanks for making my point unrealistic Fear ... no different then there coming to take our gun you guy's just re package the same BS and yet theses horrendous things you predict never materlize. . Yet you guys do what you do best disregarded the facts 100,000 gun deaths mutiple mass shootings yearly and barely a word ?. but let a Muslim do the shooting and people are instantly More horrified .. and any rational thinking goes out the window why is it America always needs an enemy real or imagined

Thanks for making my point unrealistic Fear ... no different then there coming to take our gun you guy's just re package the same BS and yet theses horrendous things you predict never materlize. . Yet you guys do what you do best disregarded the facts 100,000 gun deaths mutiple mass shootings yearly and barely a word ?. but let a Muslim do the shooting and people are instantly More horrified .. and any rational thinking goes out the window why is it America always needs an enemy real or imagined

Be cool. No need to waste your time and energy spreading the truth. Just relax and enjoy your life. America doesn't have any enemies. Except, as you point out, the enemy is us.

And that can be "interpreted" literally or nonoriginally. Or any way your discretion desires.

"“Since 9/11"

Convenient to start tracking this, the day after 09/11...I bet that if you excluded all the days when there were terrorist attacks, the number of people killed by terrorists would be pretty darn low.

"But the Fear that it is going to Happen YOU is Just unrealistic "

True, for now. And in 1943, the chances of an American civilian being killed by the Nazis or the Japanese was also pretty low. But we were at war then (as we are now), and we had to deal with it.

Also, I'm not worried about a low-level crook in my town getting a nuclear weapon. We need to prevent jihadists from getting one, because if they did, they would use it 10 seconds later.

Street crime happens. But street criminals haven't dcelared war on the law-abiding.

I don't think anyone who wants to be aggressive against jihadists, has ever hinted that we don't also need to be vigilant about everyday, garden-variety street crime. The problem is, liberals are as wrong on how to deal with domestic crime (assume it goes away with gun restrictions, blame white people, and throw money at the problem, and tell the criminals that it isn't their fault), as they are on how to deal with terrorists (pretend the problem doesn't exist).


Jim these are not new problems terrorism ,Crime they have been around a very long time not just the last 8 year's...

But time and time again these things get packaged as if they showed up Since Obama? the right loves to blame progressives or liberals as if the Republicans have never held the Whitehouse or had any members in congress ...

Then every election cycle they regurgitate How weak we are How our military needs more how tough on crime they are ( currently we have the most combat experienced and ready Military in the world)

And the Democrats regurgitate there own BS as well how things in America are not fair .. Bla Bla Bla

The problem With America there Is no Middle no middle class ! no middle ground !
We have be come a country heading towards the class system ! you stay where you are born rich, middle class or poor ... The American Dream sadly is becoming more of a dream than an actual Concept for success ...

The American Dream is a national ethos of the United States, the set of ideals (Democracy, Rights, Liberty, Opportunity, and Equality) in which freedom includes the opportunity for prosperity and success, and an upward social mobility for the family and children, achieved through hard work in a society with few barriers. In the definition of the American Dream by James Truslow Adams in 1931, "life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement" regardless of social class or circumstances of birth.[1]

Thanks for making my point unrealistic Fear ... no different then there coming to take our gun you guy's just re package the same BS and yet theses horrendous things you predict never materlize. . Yet you guys do what you do best disregarded the facts 100,000 gun deaths mutiple mass shootings yearly and barely a word ?. but let a Muslim do the shooting and people are instantly More horrified .. and any rational thinking goes out the window why is it America always needs an enemy real or imagined

Isnt it the Democrats that never let a good crisis go to waste ? Just look at what happens in the media if a policeman shoots a black man .
When in reality your chances of getting shot by a policeman a much less than being shot by a terrorist . Especially if you're a law abiding citizen
I take it you're in the "global warming is the most important threat " camp .
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Isnt it the Democrats that never let a good crisis go to waste ? Just look at what happens in the media if a policeman shoots a black man .
When in reality your chances of getting shot by a policeman a much less than being shot by a terrorist . Especially if you're a law abiding citizen
I take it you're in the "global warming is the most important threat " camp .
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All politicians use this.. Let's look at the biggest crisis- 9-11. Afghanistan and then let's sneak in a war with Iraq.
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Thanks for making my point unrealistic Fear ... no different then there coming to take our gun you guy's just re package the same BS and yet theses horrendous things you predict never materlize. . Yet you guys do what you do best disregarded the facts 100,000 gun deaths mutiple mass shootings yearly and barely a word ?. but let a Muslim do the shooting and people are instantly More horrified .. and any rational thinking goes out the window why is it America always needs an enemy real or imagined

"Yet you guys do what you do best disregarded the facts 100,000 gun deaths mutiple mass shootings yearly and barely a word ?"

Barely a word? Says who? You think my side is hesitant to discuss this, or unwilling to offer solutions? Not true. It's just that liberals aren't interested in hearing our proposed solutions, because we talk about things like "responsibility", and the liberal platform makes it clear that they aren't big on the notion of individual responsibility and facing the consequences of one's actions (if you don't believe me, look up where both sides stand on abortion).

All politicians use this.. Let's look at the biggest crisis- 9-11. Afghanistan and then let's sneak in a war with Iraq.
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Yup, got attacked from someone, let's invade the wrong country :shocked: We don't need none of that Science stuff w/their big words and fancy charts.

Jim these are not new problems terrorism ,Crime they have been around a very long time not just the last 8 year's...

But time and time again these things get packaged as if they showed up Since Obama? the right loves to blame progressives or liberals as if the Republicans have never held the Whitehouse or had any members in congress ...

Then every election cycle they regurgitate How weak we are How our military needs more how tough on crime they are ( currently we have the most combat experienced and ready Military in the world)

And the Democrats regurgitate there own BS as well how things in America are not fair .. Bla Bla Bla

The problem With America there Is no Middle no middle class ! no middle ground !
We have be come a country heading towards the class system ! you stay where you are born rich, middle class or poor ... The American Dream sadly is becoming more of a dream than an actual Concept for success ...

The American Dream is a national ethos of the United States, the set of ideals (Democracy, Rights, Liberty, Opportunity, and Equality) in which freedom includes the opportunity for prosperity and success, and an upward social mobility for the family and children, achieved through hard work in a society with few barriers. In the definition of the American Dream by James Truslow Adams in 1931, "life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement" regardless of social class or circumstances of birth.[1]

"time and time again these things get packaged as if they showed up Since Obama?"

I have never heard anyone say that either terrorism or street crime, originated under Obama. I will say that the policies Obama endorses, make both of those things worse. He inherited a stable Iraq, pulled out against the advice of many, which allowed ISIS to form, and now that region is far worse off than when he took office. As far as crime goes...we have newly elected liberal mayors in NYC and Chicago...and murders are through the roof. WDMSO, I follow the evidence, and I base my conclusions on evidence, and form my opinions on evidence. Most of our inner cities have been controlled by Democrats for 50 years. It's not working. Look at NYC. In the 1980's, it was a war zone. Rudy Guiliani gets elected, imposes conservative anti-crime principles, and we saw a huge drop in murders - a HUGE drop. Then they elect a liberal twit, who does away with everything Rudy did, and immediately, murders are way up. How else can those facts be interpreted, other than my conclusion that Rudy was right, and Deblasio was wrong? Please tell me, what other conclusion is there? Because I honestly don't get how anyone can deny the reality that's staring us in the face. It's not theory, we have actual, empirical evidence. If muderers went down under Deblasio, I would arrive at a different conclusion...but they didn't, they skyrocketed.

"the right loves to blame progressives or liberals "

I don't think conservatives are always right - not by a long shot. I am pro gay marriage, and I think we need more common sense inour gun laws - not more laws necessarily, but ones that make more sense.

Extremism exists on both sides, and is rarely productive.

As far as crime goes...we have newly elected liberal mayors in NYC and Chicago...and murders are through the roof. WDMSO, I follow the evidence, and I base my conclusions on evidence, and form my opinions on evidence.
Here's some evidence Jim...

In 2014, De Blasio's first year as mayor there were 333 homicides in NYC, about the same number at the end of Bloomberg's stint.

In 2015 the number of homicides "went through the roof" with a recorded 339 homicides.

That's a YoY increase of .98%

Here's some evidence Jim...

In 2014, De Blasio's first year as mayor there were 333 homicides in NYC, about the same number at the end of Bloomberg's stint.

In 2015 the number of homicides "went through the roof" with a recorded 339 homicides.

That's a YoY increase of .98%

Spence, I gotta tell you, I'd be a lot more inclined to respond to your posts, if you would shoe me the same courtesy, and explain why Hilary wasn't lying (as she claims she wasn't) when she said she came under sniper fire? if you won't respond, and we all see you won't, can you at least tell us why you won't respond? The woman just said on TV that she doen't believe she has ever told a lie.

In any event...in this article, which isn't exactly flattering to Rudy G, admits that when he was mayor, violent crime dropped by 56% in NYC...not bad.

http://www.businessinsider.com/criticism-for-giulianis-broken-windows-theory-2013-8

And in this article, they say murder rates for 2015 (which wasn't final when the article was written) were upo 8% over 2014...

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/city-hall/2015/09/8576291/de-blasio-defends-crime-stats-and-kelly-criticizes-his-analysis

Spence, can you name an urban city, long-controlled by Democrats, that's better off now than it was 50 years ago? Here in CT, I can point to New Haven, Hartford, and Bridgeport. All controlled exclusively by Democrats for 50 years, and all going right down the toilet. Maybe there's no correlation between th eparty in charge and the decline in thos eplaces. But maybe we can try something different, just to see.

Anyway, we all await your honest and thoughtful insight on Hilary's position that she has never told a lie...

Isnt it the Democrats that never let a good crisis go to waste ? Just look at what happens in the media if a policeman shoots a black man .
When in reality your chances of getting shot by a policeman a much less than being shot by a terrorist . Especially if you're a law abiding citizen
I take it you're in the "global warming is the most important threat " camp .
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again More of the same almost true statements


seem you buy into "More whites than blacks are victims of deadly police shootings,


Over the span of more than a decade, 2,151 whites died by being shot by police compared to 1,130 blacks. In that respect

However, Brian Forst, a professor in the Department of Justice, Law and Criminology at American University, said this difference is predictable.

"More whites are killed by the police than blacks primarily because whites outnumber blacks in the general population by more than five to one," Forst said. The country is about 63 percent white and 12 percent black.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/aug/21/michael-medved/talk-show-host-police-kill-more-whites-blacks/

You think my side is hesitant to discuss this, or unwilling to offer solutions?

Sadly you may be one of the few that see common sense changes are needed

But you get drowned out by those who's Solutions is

“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun”

You think my side is hesitant to discuss this, or unwilling to offer solutions?

Sadly you may be one of the few that see common sense changes are needed

But you get drowned out by those who's Solutions is

“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun”

It's obvious Jim has a different theory of interpretation than you. You should save yourself the frustration of trying to persuade him to think like you do and just agree to disagree with him.

Anyway, we all await your honest and thoughtful insight on Hilary's position that she has never told a lie...
Why are you infatuated with Hillary Clinton? It's like, obsessive.

Fess up, I think you have a little Hillary shrine on a shelf on the office wall.

again More of the same almost true statements


seem you buy into "More whites than blacks are victims of deadly police shootings,


Over the span of more than a decade, 2,151 whites died by being shot by police compared to 1,130 blacks. In that respect

However, Brian Forst, a professor in the Department of Justice, Law and Criminology at American University, said this difference is predictable.

"More whites are killed by the police than blacks primarily because whites outnumber blacks in the general population by more than five to one," Forst said. The country is about 63 percent white and 12 percent black.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/aug/21/michael-medved/talk-show-host-police-kill-more-whites-blacks/

You missed " the law abiding citizen" part
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You missed " the law abiding citizen" part
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Good point, I'd wager more innocent black people are shot than white at a much higher rate.

Good point, I'd wager more innocent black people are shot than white at a much higher rate.

I didn't say innocent I said law abiding . How's 50 bucks sound ?
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Good point, I'd wager more innocent black people are shot than white at a much higher rate.

Apparently Caucasions are not taking enough advantage of their white privilege when it comes to getting shot by white police. Probably the white police aren't allowing white folks the equal opportunity to get shot. If we can't somehow instill, maybe through the public school system, a fervent desire in whites to demand greater equality in the shootings, maybe the DOJ can order State and local police departments to also shoot a white person every time they kill a black one. Maybe an executive order might be required. If the government doesn't correct the inequality, white folks should take to the streets and demand equal opportunity to get shot by white policemen. They could probably shut down and burn more towns than blacks can since there are so many more whites. No equal shootings, no justice.

Asians should also join in on the fight for equality to get shot. They get shot by police only at half the rate as whites. Hispanics and Native Americans also need to more greatly assert their right to be shot by white police since they get killed by police at less than half the rate as blacks.

The Guardian newspaper is running a database, The Counted, tracking US killings by police and other law enforcement agencies in 2015, and counted 1140 killed, with rates per million of 2.92 for "white" people, 7.2 for "black", and 3.5 for "hispanic/latino", 1.34 for "Asian/Pacific Islander", and 3.4 for "Native American". The database can be viewed by state, gender, race/ethnicity, age, classification (e.g., "gunshot"), and whether the person killed was armed.[5]

The Government obviously needs to crack down on rampant racist white cop shootings and make them more equal. The problem is so persistent that very severe methods to create equal opportunity to be shot by police, especially white ones, need to be taken.

The Guardian newspaper is running a database, The Counted, tracking US killings by police and other law enforcement agencies in 2015, and counted 1140 killed, with rates per million of 2.92 for "white" people, 7.2 for "black", and 3.5 for "hispanic/latino", 1.34 for "Asian/Pacific Islander", and 3.4 for "Native American". The database can be viewed by state, gender, race/ethnicity, age, classification (e.g., "gunshot"), and whether the person killed was armed.[5]
What question are you trying to answer?

What question are you trying to answer?

Why are white people so evil?

You missed " the law abiding citizen" part
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Again a broad statement.. how do you define a Law Abiding Citizen

And since when are the police the judge Jury and executioner of the Law abiding citizens..

I work in a prison with convicted non law abiding Citizens.. and I do not have the liberty to smash them in the face if they don't do as I ask .. and those officers who do lose their jobs rather quickly .. the same should apply to officers on the street

2015 U.S. police killed 776 people, 161 of whom were completely unarmed at the time of their death.

its the unarmed ones thats my concern .. if you have a gun or a knife in your hand or going for it .. Id shoot you dead

Again a broad statement.. how do you define a Law Abiding Citizen

And since when are the police the judge Jury and executioner of the Law abiding citizens..

I work in a prison with convicted non law abiding Citizens.. and I do not have the liberty to smash them in the face if they don't do as I ask .. and those officers who do lose their jobs rather quickly .. the same should apply to officers on the street

2015 U.S. police killed 776 people, 161 of whom were completely unarmed at the time of their death.

its the unarmed ones thats my concern .. if you have a gun or a knife in your hand or going for it .. Id shoot you dead

I would think that you would know sometimes you just what's in the hand or pocket . I agree that on those very few times an officer blatantly kills somebody he should be convicted and get the maximum sentence .
Back to the topic.
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I would think that you would know sometimes you just what's in the hand or pocket . I agree that on those very few times an officer blatantly kills somebody he should be convicted and get the maximum sentence .
Back to the topic.
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Kalamazoo, Michigan: Six shot dead in 'random' attacks

Sorry this is off topic he wasn't Muslim or Black

Kalamazoo, Michigan: Six shot dead in 'random' attacks

Sorry this is off topic he wasn't Muslim or Black

Horrible and cowardly . Your point ?
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Kalamazoo, Michigan: Six shot dead in 'random' attacks

Sorry this is off topic he wasn't Muslim or Black

What was the reason the non-Muslim, non-black man killed six people? If motive can be found, steps can be taken to prevent some further murders.

What was the motive for the Muslim couple to kill 14 people and wound 21 others in San Bernadino?

If the motive was religious jihad, what steps can be taken to prevent more of the same?

Should we be concerned about various groups whose words and creeds appear, or specifically say, that those outside their creed are considered inferior and should be subjugated or exterminated? White racists groups, for instance? Would such groups naturally inspire caution and fear in those outside of their belief system?

Horrible and cowardly . Your point ?
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He's trying to show that, because not everyone who commits murder is black or muslim, therefore there is no valid reason for whites to be concerned about violence in those groups.

How anyone can think that, is beyond me, but that's what he's trying to show

In Kalamazoo, Mich. I bet blacks don't commit a lot of murder id Fargo, ND either.

What was the reason the non-Muslim, non-black man killed six people? If motive can be found, steps can be taken to prevent some further murders.

What was the motive for the Muslim couple to kill 14 people and wound 21 others in San Bernadino?

If the motive was religious jihad, what steps can be taken to prevent more of the same?

Should we be concerned about various groups whose words and creeds appear, or specifically say, that those outside their creed are considered inferior and should be subjugated or exterminated? White racists groups, for instance? Would such groups naturally inspire caution and fear in those outside of their belief system?

Looking for motive outside a criminal investigation.. tends only to help the living make excuses why things happen (hence the OP) .. knowing ones motive has little impact on future prevention of heinous acts carried out by individuals and gives little solace to The Familys left behind

So preventing Muslims from exercising their 2a right or shooting an AK47 is not prevention.. Its control and discrimination cloaked in doing the right thing

Looking for motive outside a criminal investigation.. tends only to help the living make excuses why things happen (hence the OP) .. knowing ones motive has little impact on future prevention of heinous acts carried out by individuals and gives little solace to The Familys left behind

So preventing Muslims from exercising their 2a right or shooting an AK47 is not prevention.. Its control and discrimination cloaked in doing the right thing

I'm pretty sure the FBI , most in law enforcement, and anybody with any common sense at all , would disagree .
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Mental illness is not a crime, however the fact that this country has failed to find a proper way to care for these folks is criminal.
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Looking for motive outside a criminal investigation.. tends only to help the living make excuses why things happen (hence the OP) ..

There's that tricky distinction between "excuse" amd "reason."

knowing ones motive has little impact on future prevention of heinous acts carried out by individuals and gives little solace to The Familys left behind

Using disicretionary interpretation, we can agree to disagree.

So preventing Muslims from exercising their 2a right or shooting an AK47 is not prevention.. Its control and discrimination cloaked in doing the right thing

So gun laws preventing purchase of "assault" weapons is not prevention, it's discrimination.
Didn't the Muslims who did the killing in San Bernadino think they wre doing the right thing?

So gun laws preventing purchase of "assault" weapons is not prevention, it's discrimination.
I never said anything about preventing purchase of assault weapons ?


Didn't the Muslims who did the killing in San Bernadino think they wre doing the right thing?

I am sure they did as twisted as it maybe Its control and discrimination cloaked in doing the right thing.. in their twisted minds

I am sure they did as twisted as it maybe Its control and discrimination cloaked in doing the right thing.. in their twisted minds

You are correct. In their opinion, they were doing the right thing. They no doubt would have considered your mind to be twisted. And would have considered it controlling and discriminatory on your part if you accused them of it. Nothing to fear there. As you said, whites mostly kill whites, blacks kill blacks, and Muslims kill Muslims.

Are Muslims mostly killing Muslims in this country? Or in Europe or Canada? Or in the "Western" part of the world?

Oh, there are those wonderful occasional honor killings.

Black kill blacks Whites kill whites Hispanics kill Hispanics

and Musulims kill Muslims ( not a race )
“

Hispanics aren't a race either.....
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http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=62559&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1456066205

Does this guy remind anyone else of someone we know?

http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=62559&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1456066205

Does this guy remind anyone else of someone we know?

I saw this and thought the same. :hihi:
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No comment
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Our guy is handsomer.

Mental illness is not a crime, however the fact that this country has failed to find a proper way to care for these folks is criminal.
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It's certainly a big part of the problem.

Case in point, there wasn't a single reference to the Kalamazoo Uber shootings on the Sunday shows this weekend by Presidential candidates (or even questions) yet had this guy been a Muslim people would be hoarding bottled water and duct tape.

It's certainly a big part of the problem.

Case in point, there wasn't a single reference to the Kalamazoo Uber shootings on the Sunday shows this weekend by Presidential candidates (or even questions) yet had this guy been a Muslim people would be hoarding bottled water and duct tape.

You're right, terrorism is a nonissue ....carry-on
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You're right, white Christian based terrorism is a nonissue ....carry-on
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Fixed it for you
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Fixed it for you
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You didn't fix it for me, I'm not nuts .
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The Muslim clerics of Iran and their Supreme leader are the leading arbiters of Shia Muslim "interpretation" of Islam. Their version of "peace" differs from the Saudi belief (the epicenter of Sunni "interpretation) only insofar as one is Shia and the other is Sunni. And either depiction of peace differs from ISIS (which claims to be Sunni) mostly in degree, and in the desire of any of them to maintain their own power.

The Saudi Shia leaders behead scores of people every year. ISIS (the so-called "extremists" who we want to believe are not truly Muslim) will have to go a long way to equal the number of beheadings executed by Saudi Arabia which we are to believe is the head of a supposedly true and "moderate" form of Islam.

Iran, representing the true and "moderate" Shia version of Islam, has its own hundreds of executions every year. But it also, as a matter of Koranic decree, executes and supports terrorism outside of its borders. In case we have forgotten about the fatwa against Salman Rushdie, it has been reinvigorated and the bounty has immensely grown:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/salman-rushdie-bounty_us_56cc34bce4b0928f5a6d2287

Of course, we're not supposed to be "biased" against this religion which is the most biased and terroristic one than any other major faith. It is, as we are supposed to believe, the religion of peace.

It's certainly a big part of the problem.

Case in point, there wasn't a single reference to the Kalamazoo Uber shootings on the Sunday shows this weekend by Presidential candidates (or even questions) yet had this guy been a Muslim people would be hoarding bottled water and duct tape.

Jeff, to use your words "apples and oranges". Although I am not surprised that you choose to compare a person who lost his marbles to an act which is as heinous as the San Bernadino shootings. It would be difficult to prevent either situation but the intent part of the discussion is evident to most sensible folks.
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Jeff, to use your words "apples and oranges". Although I am not surprised that you choose to compare a person who lost his marbles to an act which is as heinous as the San Bernadino shootings. It would be difficult to prevent either situation but the intent part of the discussion is evident to most sensible folks.
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I wasn't comparing Kalamazoo to San Bern.

I am not sure what your point was then. We are being targeted in our own country by religious extremists and thousands have lost their lives. If your point is we,as a society have over reacted to these acts of terror then you simply are not paying attention. When a nut like we have in Kalamazoo or the person who shot up the abortion clinic in Colorado does not get the attention from the media that you think they deserve the comparison becomes embarrassing.
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