I am surprised that something like that has not happeed here....think about it....U go to the airport with your luggage, go to check your suitcase in and get in security line with carry on or back pack, large crowd waiting in line....there is no security in that line....very easy to set off an explosion.

I am surprised that something like that has not happeed here....think about it....U go to the airport with your luggage, go to check your suitcase in and get in security line with carry on or back pack, large crowd waiting in line....there is no security in that line....very easy to set off an explosion.

Agree. Fortunately the FBI, NSA, and local Law Enforecement have done a good job chasing leads and potential adversaries. Still, sadly, just a matter of time. Our people must be lucky all the time, ther bad guys, not so much

I am surprised that something like that has not happeed here....think about it....U go to the airport with your luggage, go to check your suitcase in and get in security line with carry on or back pack, large crowd waiting in line....there is no security in that line....very easy to set off an explosion.
Remember also that once on airport property you're on dozens of cameras, unless it's a suicide attack the deterrent is there. If you're radicalized enough to kill yourself the odds of you being on a watch list go up also...so the number of unknown yet radicalized individuals is likely not a huge group. Remains to be seen how much trouble Europe is in right now...

Remember also that once on airport property you're on dozens of cameras, unless it's a suicide attack the deterrent is there. If you're radicalized enough to kill yourself the odds of you being on a watch list go up also...so the number of unknown yet radicalized individuals is likely not a huge group. Remains to be seen how much trouble Europe is in right now...

They have a much larger percentage of Muslims then America does . Europe is in deep now .
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I can't believe I am going to say this and I don't agree with it but you will probably see internment camps in the future followed by massive deportations once the Syrian conflict settles down.

Key word here is probably which is a little more than might but a lot less than definite.
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Maybe we should follow the Israelis security system...but will americans put up with that tight security?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-wagner/what-israeli-airport-secu_b_4978149.html

I can't believe I am going to say this and I don't agree with it but you will probably see internment camps in the future followed by massive deportations once the Syrian conflict settles down.

Key word here is probably which is a little more than might but a lot less than definite.
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Never happen....we can't even have a Gitmo
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Never happen....we can't even have a Gitmo
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Duck falls from the ceiling

Actually, I am going to correct you, we will have Gitmo as long as it is necessary, we will hear the same government that uses it speak against it, and when that administration has gotten its usefulness from it, they will remove it at the last minute, and its utility, to the next administration.

If he closed it in his first couple years that is one thing, but if Obama waits until the last minute, that is just fraud.

Never happen....we can't even have a Gitmo
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Reminiscing about those better days?

Reminiscing about those better days?

Have some of those released returned to become a threat ? Yes or no ?
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Duck falls from the ceiling

Actually, I am going to correct you, we will have Gitmo as long as it is necessary, we will hear the same government that uses it speak against it, and when that administration has gotten its usefulness from it, they will remove it at the last minute, and its utility, to the next administration.

If he closed it in his first couple years that is one thing, but if Obama waits until the last minute, that is just fraud.

True
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Have some of those released returned to become a threat ? Yes or no ?
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Right, because detaining and torturing so many was good PR.

Right, because detaining and torturing so many was good PR.


What would you have done with them?

What would you have done with them?

Gas em.
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No no. How about we bring back the gladiator matches ?? Feed them to the lions. Have it take place in the center of the nascar tracks. Yes!!!!
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Right, because detaining and torturing so many was good PR.

Is that what this is about ?
Answer the original question please !

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No no. How about we bring back the gladiator matches ?? Feed them to the lions. Have it take place in the center of the nascar tracks. Yes!!!!
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This is why Trump will be YOUR next president . The left can't make an intelligent argument . People are not buying the BS anymore .
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What would you have done with them?
They could have done more to address the issue in country. So many detainees were just rounded up and had no substantial connection to terrorism. Sort this out locally and you're going to get better intel from a more cooperative population. Get the number down to the few dozen that are a really connected to 9/11...why we went there to begin with and the situation is totally different.

Of course this would have taken more time and Bush Co. had other plans.

They could have done more to address the issue in country. So many detainees were just rounded up and had no substantial connection to terrorism. Sort this out locally and you're going to get better intel from a more cooperative population. Get the number down to the few dozen that are a really connected to 9/11...why we went there to begin with and the situation is totally different.

Of course this would have taken more time and Bush Co. had other plans.

You need to get some reality into your thought process .
Not to be a pest , but since you fancy yourself a Gitmo psychologist could you answer my question from before ?
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You need to get some reality into your thought process .
Not to be a pest , but since you fancy yourself a Gitmo psychologist could you answer my question from before ?
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It's contextually not relevant. Your question was about closing GITMO, not what we could have done differently. i.e. they shouldn't have been there to begin with...

Besides, it's hardly a surprise that after being captured, shackled to the floor of a transport aircraft with a bag over your head, imprisoned and harshly interrogated for years...that some might leave with a slight grudge.

It's contextually not relevant. Your question was about closing GITMO, not what we could have done differently. i.e. they shouldn't have been there to begin with...

Besides, it's hardly a surprise that after being captured, shackled to the floor of a transport aircraft with a bag over your head, imprisoned and harshly interrogated for years...that some might leave with a slight grudge.

Like John McCain? Breaking News .... They hate you because your free . An American and believe in someone besides Allah . These are not victims ! To be honest , I wouldn't loose to much sleep over what happens to them as long as their is zero chance of them ever harming anyone again .
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Like John McCain? Breaking News .... They hate you because your free . An American and believe in someone besides Allah . These are not victims ! To be honest , I wouldn't loose to much sleep over what happens to them as long as their is zero chance of them ever harming anyone again .
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Wrong. They hate spence because he doesn't believe in the same amaginary friend as they do. Freedom? They could not care less. God. They kill for God.
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Like John McCain? Breaking News .... They hate you because your free . An American and believe in someone besides Allah . These are not victims ! To be honest , I wouldn't loose to much sleep over what happens to them as long as their is zero chance of them ever harming anyone again .
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The "they hate us for our freedoms" line was rhetoric designed so people wouldn't challenge Bush's justification for war.

From Bin Laden's perspective 9/11 was about the US backing actors like Israel and the Saudi monarchy that had failed to serve the interests of Muslims...it was defensive not offensive.

Sorry but it didn't happen because we have gay rights and freedom fries.

^ so true.
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The "they hate us for our freedoms" line was rhetoric designed so people wouldn't challenge Bush's justification for war.

From Bin Laden's perspective 9/11 was about the US backing actors like Israel and the Saudi monarchy that had failed to serve the interests of Muslims...it was defensive not offensive.

Sorry but it didn't happen because we have gay rights and freedom fries.

Tell that to the many slaughtered gays and Christians . Besides ISiS wasn't even around when Bush was President .
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Tell that to the many slaughtered gays and Christians . Besides ISiS wasn't even around when Bush was President .
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A Muslim extremist is a Muslim extremist.
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Tell that to the many slaughtered gays and Christians . Besides ISiS wasn't even around when Bush was President .
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You're conflating events.

Sadly the Violent minority is controlling the Narrative when it come to How Muslims are viewed ... The remainder have a choice to make and this choice needs to happen soon .. they need to choose a side they need to see them self's as Germans, Belgium , French or Americans 1st

THEY NEED TOO see themselves as Muslim 2nd and help purge theses scum from their ranks .. Because if they dont the tide will change and they will be swept aside and the extreme Muslims will have the war with the west they hoped for and the peaceful Muslim will pay the price ... from both sides ..

The fire is smoldering !!!

Here's a genius idea...

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/cruz-proposes-law-enforcement-patrol-secure-muslim-neighborhoods-n543616

Certainly the best way to combat radicalization it to marginalize people because of their race/religion...I can't think of any better way to get more collaboration with the FBI and LPD...

And this is the number two, who can't be as idiotic as the number 1.

John Kasich is looking better and better every day.

Sadly the Violent minority is controlling the Narrative when it come to How Muslims are viewed ... The remainder have a choice to make and this choice needs to happen soon .. they need to choose a side they need to see them self's as Germans, Belgium , French or Americans 1st

THEY NEED TOO see themselves as Muslim 2nd and help purge theses scum from their ranks .. Because if they dont the tide will change and they will be swept aside and the extreme Muslims will have the war with the west they hoped for and the peaceful Muslim will pay the price ... from both sides ..

The fire is smoldering !!!

Absolutely
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Remember also that once on airport property you're on dozens of cameras, unless it's a suicide attack the deterrent is there. If you're radicalized enough to kill yourself the odds of you being on a watch list go up also...so the number of unknown yet radicalized individuals is likely not a huge group. Remains to be seen how much trouble Europe is in right now...

As U may have noticed security camara did not stop the bombers in Brussel only identified after the fact and the same would B here in this country as security camara showed the passing of the bomb from a Russian employee to another person prior to boarding Russian plane...once again after the fact ...there is no deterrant to stop a radical

As U may have noticed security camara did not stop the bombers in Brussel only identified after the fact and the same would B here in this country as security camara showed the passing of the bomb from a Russian employee to another person prior to boarding Russian plane...once again after the fact ...there is no deterrant to stop a radical
Like I said, cameras with a suicide bomber don't mean as much. That's why they're focused on the possible non suicide person of interest who could have been there to see they didn't chicken out.
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Like I said, cameras with a suicide bomber don't mean as much. That's why they're focused on the possible non suicide person of interest who could have been there to see they didn't chicken out.
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The only visual security at logan are state police shooing away people in their cars parking at the arrival terminal

Here's a genius idea...

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/cruz-proposes-law-enforcement-patrol-secure-muslim-neighborhoods-n543616

Certainly the best way to combat radicalization it to marginalize people because of their race/religion...I can't think of any better way to get more collaboration with the FBI and LPD...

And this is the number two, who can't be as idiotic as the number 1.

John Kasich is looking better and better every day.

Cruz is a moron as I said this issue needs to be resolved from with in the Community Him suggesting establishing a Muslim ghetto "this has been tried in History" he his trying very hard for Votes.. Fear it's what conservatives dish out. its their Banner

calling for law enforcement to "patrol and secure Muslim neighborhoods" in the wake of the terrorist attacks in Brussels,:drevil:

The only visual security at logan are state police shooing away people in their cars parking at the arrival terminal

Boston Logan International Airport set a new passenger record in 2012 with 29,325,617 people passing through the airport, an increase of 416,350 over 2011

1 Airport in the country there is no security in the world that could stop a determined suicide bomber.. its unrealistic to expect otherwise


the key is intel prior to an attack , tracking ammo weapons explosives chatter on the internet general intel from human sources from theses communities

But I dont think many 2a guys would support some of theses control and tracking .. ( it would be construed as a back door on taking their guns ) they would happily support endless lines and intrusive searches on billions of travelers time and money more expanded Government in a feel good attempt to find the needle in the Hay stack .. thats just what I Think would happen

Cruz is a moron as I said this issue needs to be resolved from with in the Community Him suggesting establishing a Muslim ghetto "this has been tried in History" he his trying very hard for Votes.. Fear it's what conservatives dish out. its their Banner

calling for law enforcement to "patrol and secure Muslim neighborhoods" in the wake of the terrorist attacks in Brussels,:drevil:

Yea we should allow 10000
refugees to come here instead , that would be a good start.
That's your sides brilliant plan is .
That should scare the hell out of you but you would rather "feel" like you are taking the high road
Why don't you tell us what the genius Secretary of State has done to minimize the threat of a radical Muslim attack .
Sorry ISIS keeps proving your side inept .
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That should scare the hell out of you but you would rather "feel" like you are taking the high road
The US takes in around 100,000 refugees a year already and many are Muslim. Those potentially coming from Syria don't get to choose which country they're sent to and go through a long vetting process. If your intent was to harm America it wouldn't be a very prudent path to take.

What really scares the hell out of me is that the top two GOP candidates are calling for the US to scrutinize people because of their religion.

Sorry ISIS keeps proving your side inept .
Wait, if ISIS is on the other side, and you're not on our side, that makes you on ISIS's side?

The US takes in around 100,000 refugees a year already and many are Muslim. Those potentially coming from Syria don't get to choose which country they're sent to and go through a long vetting process. If your intent was to harm America it wouldn't be a very prudent path to take.

What really scares the hell out of me is that the top two GOP candidates are calling for the US to scrutinize people because of their religion.

We have been over this before . What religion would you like to associate with Radical Islam Spence ?
The attacks in Brussels didn't happen because a bunch of Christians refugees moved in .
Common sense
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We have been over this before . What religion would you like to associate with Radical Islam Spence ?
The attacks in Brussels didn't happen because a bunch of Christians refugees moved in .
Common sense
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Great, let's put all the Muslim police, business professionals, military and doctors under surveillance...it's about the religion right?

Two of these guys appear to be known criminals both in Brussles. Issues here run much deeper than your whitewashing Islam as the problem.

Funny how I don't hear the intelligence community or law enforcement calling for religious bigotry, they want cooperation and intelligence.

Psssst. Since 9-11 happened the largest mass killings in the USA came from members of what religion ? Think hard now and leave towels around where you are sitting for when your brain explodes
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Besides ISiS wasn't even around when Bush was President .
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Sure they were.....they were called Al Qeada......and before that the Mujahideen

New name, New location, new game plan

The Cleveland Browns couldn't win a Super Bowl until they changed their name and moved :hee:
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Psssst. Since 9-11 happened the largest mass killings in the USA came from members of what religion ? Think hard now and leave towels around where you are sitting for when your brain explodes
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is this another fun fact you got from whackjob.com?

Grab your towels.
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This one focuses on US mass shootings. In Europe all you have to do is know about the white supremest that killed hundreds at that youth summer camp on an island.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/us/tally-of-attacks-in-us-challenges-perceptions-of-top-terror-threat.html?referer=&_r=0
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Great, let's put all the Muslim police, business professionals, military and doctors under surveillance...it's about the religion right?

Two of these guys appear to be known criminals both in Brussles. Issues here run much deeper than your whitewashing Islam as the problem.

Funny how I don't hear the intelligence community or law enforcement calling for religious bigotry, they want cooperation and intelligence.

Yup just simple criminals . Enlighten us with your thoughts on these poor misguided souls agenda please .
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This one focuses on US mass shootings. In Europe all you have to do is know about the white supremest that killed hundreds at that youth summer camp on an island.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/us/tally-of-attacks-in-us-challenges-perceptions-of-top-terror-threat.html?referer=&_r=0
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48 since 9/11 , hardly a trend .
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Yup just simple criminals . Enlighten us with your thoughts on these poor misguided souls agenda please .
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I think their agenda was to find some meaning in life. The brothers had both done time for organized crime...

That appears to be the standard operating procedure. Target disaffected youth with a promise of purpose, material gain and opportunity, then when they arrive put them through the radicalization regime.

48 since 9/11 , hardly a trend .
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Id call any period over 10 years a trend
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BTW - there have been evil Christians before, like evil Muslims. Does not mean all Muslims are evil and all Christians are evil. But I don't see many Muslims being efficient in confronting evil muslims.

However, radical Lutheranism has been curbed to manageable levels.

Sure they were.....they were called Al Qeada......and before that the Mujahideen

New name, New location, new game plan
And a bunch of old names for 1000 years.


The Cleveland Browns couldn't win a Super Bowl until they changed their name and moved :hee:
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:rotf3:

Cruz is a moron as I said this issue needs to be resolved from with in the Community Him suggesting establishing a Muslim ghetto "this has been tried in History" he his trying very hard for Votes.. Fear it's what conservatives dish out. its their Banner

calling for law enforcement to "patrol and secure Muslim neighborhoods" in the wake of the terrorist attacks in Brussels,:drevil:

"Cruz is a moron "

Tell that to Harvard Law Professor (and hard-core liberal) Alan Dershowitz, who says that Cruz was the brightest student he ever had.

"Fear it's what conservatives dish out"

Oh, I see. So when Obama ran on "hope and change", that's not trying to make anyone afraid of the other side. And when Hilary says that conservatives are opposed to women's health, that we hate blacks, Mexicans, homosexuals, poor people, old people, blah, blah, blah...that's not fear-mongering. Got it.

What really scares the hell out of me is that the top two GOP candidates are calling for the US to scrutinize people because of their religion.

So we ignore the one common thread that the jihadists share, and pretend that an Amish person represents the same threat as a young Muslim man?

Spence, they say that 1% or 2% of Muslims are radicalized. So here is a very simple, yet very pertinent question for you.

I give your kids a bowl of 100 gummy bears. I tell you that 1 of them is poisoned and will kill whoever eats it. How many do you let your children eat, before you throw the bowl in the garbage?

Have fun with that.

The western, civilized world will soon find itself at a very real crossroads with this issue. If peaceful Muslims don't want to force westerners to a place with horrible, yet morally obvious, decisions to make...they need to find a way to deal with the devil in their midst.

Cruz is not a moron. The moron is the person who thinks he can trust him.
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Cruz is not a moron. The moron is the person who thinks he can trust him.
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Right. But it's un-moronic to trust the guy who promises free college, free world-class healthcare, and a unicorn in every backyard.

I trust Bernie a hell of a lot more than Cruz. Yes.
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Follow the campaign donations and you will see where all loyalty goes.
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Follow the campaign donations and you will see where all loyalty goes.
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All of Bernie's big donors are labor unions. Labor unions have done more than their fair share of damage to our economic/political landscape in the last 50 years. Here in CT, we see what happens when the politicians are beholden to labor unbions, and it ain't good.

I trust Bernie a hell of a lot more than Cruz. Yes.
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Trust him to do what? Promote a socialist form of government? I would trust Bernie a lot more to promote socialism than I would trust Cruz to do so.

Follow the campaign donations and you will see where all loyalty goes.
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Cruz's campaign donors are far more diverse than Bernie's. So I would think that Cruz has a wider scope of loyalty and more people that he would be loyal to than Bernie.

diverse in what way? Income range of evangelical tea party members ?
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diverse in what way? Income range of evangelical tea party members ?
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Diverse as in "diverse." Yea, that includes evangelicals. And small business owners, and Tea Partiers, and bigger businesses, and Constitutionalists, and small government types, and libertarians, and some rich folks, and many average folks.

I understand that you think "freedom" is a buzzword of fools. I suspect that Bernie supporters would agree with you. Maybe the range of diversity for either Cruz or Sanders can be compressed into "freedom" fools on the one hand, and socialist lap dogs on the other.

You're wrong. I view campaign contributions and super pace as legalized corruption.
Look at Cruz's view on climate change. Look at who some of his donors are...energy companies. Hmmmm
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You're wrong. I view campaign contributions and super pace as legalized corruption.
Look at Cruz's view on climate change. Look at who some of his donors are...energy companies. Hmmmm
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Another sign of how brilliant he is .
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diverse in what way? Income range of evangelical tea party members ?
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Bigot
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You're wrong. I view campaign contributions and super pace as legalized corruption.
Look at Cruz's view on climate change. Look at who some of his donors are...energy companies. Hmmmm
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So according to you...if energy companies give hige $$ to Ted Cruz, that's bad. But if teschers unions give huge $$ to Bernie Sanders, that's no cause for alarm?

Because again, here in CT, God knows there is no downside to the fact that labor unions own most of the Dems in charge!

No no. How about we bring back the gladiator matches ?? Feed them to the lions. Have it take place in the center of the nascar tracks. Yes!!!!
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Hell yea!!!Jeff would make an awesome commentator!

Those trips up to Loudon twice a year would be so much more interesting!

You're wrong. I view campaign contributions and super pace as legalized corruption.
Look at Cruz's view on climate change. Look at who some of his donors are...energy companies. Hmmmm
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Are campaign contributions to Sanders legalized corruption?

And what is the meaning of "corruption" to you? Is corruption something that hurts your point of view or your desired outcome?

So Cruz is not convinced that climate change is fueled by what you think. Does that make him corrupt. Oh, that's right, it makes him a fool. That's really egalitarian and democratic of you. He doesn't seem to be in the tank for energy companies. He wasn't afraid to oppose ethanol even when running in ethanol rich Iowa (and won there). And he is not against alternative energy. Here's an excerpt from a CNN article where he "does support alternative energy, as long as it comes from the private sector, not the federal government."

"We ought to be allowing the private sector to pursue every form of energy because the energy of the future, it's not going to come from the government picking winners and losers," Cruz told CNN.

"We ought to open up energy innovation across the board and - and remove the barriers to every form of energy."

You seem to favor the authoritarian view of statists that government is the agent who gets to dot all the i's and cross all the t's. That definitely is the socialist way.

BTW, Trump, according to your view on campaign contributions, is the least "corrupt" in that respect. And he is not beholden to energy companies or any other filthy rich bad people. And his supporters are also more diverse than Bernie's. Of course, according to you, I would guess, Trump and his supporters are also fools.

But Sanders is all pure, and trustworthy, and will make things better for all of us. Except not for the fools.

So Belgium has an open border and want to give religious freedoms to all. How did that work out? There are parts of Brussels that the police do not patrol or control,fearing for their safety. How do you fix this mess without profiling and bigotry and racism? Who would not start by keeping an eye on the Muslim community? Is it unconstitutional to target those who are passionate about their religion? If a horse has stripes it is usually a zebra.
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"Cruz is a moron "

Tell that to Harvard Law Professor (and hard-core liberal) Alan Dershowitz, who says that Cruz was the brightest student he ever had.

"Fear it's what conservatives dish out"

Oh, I see. So when Obama ran on "hope and change", that's not trying to make anyone afraid of the other side. And when Hilary says that conservatives are opposed to women's health, that we hate blacks, Mexicans, homosexuals, poor people, old people, blah, blah, blah...that's not fear-mongering. Got it.


No thats the truth not fear mongering Conservatives are afraid of everything and everyone or have we not been paying attention ?

PS smart people can be morons.. cruz's statement is more than enough to make my point .. for a legal guy he has no issues doing illegal things like locking down Muslim neighborhood out of fear
The CBS hosts pressed Cruz on how he thinks it would logistically work to patrol 3 million American Muslims, who are not, as Cruz suggested, “ghetto-ized” in festering radical communities.

Cruz admitted, when asked by co-host Norah O’Donnell that he didn’t know how many Muslims lived in the United States.

“So you’re saying that law enforcement should surveil a number of Muslims and you don’t even know how many Muslims are in America,” she said.

Please note I am not saying this isn't a concern (terrorism) But it is Far from the 1# most dangerous issue America faces Unless your a Conservative a party where you can get Terrorism Immigration and weak Military and for additional introductory offer you can throw in for free Gun grabber Gay marriage or losing religious freedoms abortion or Planned parenthood>>> its like a comcast bundle all BS makes you feel like you got something :)

No thats the truth not fear mongering Conservatives are afraid of everything and everyone or have we not been paying attention ?

PS smart people can be morons.. cruz's statement is more than enough to make my point .. for a legal guy he has no issues doing illegal things like locking down Muslim neighborhood out of fear
The CBS hosts pressed Cruz on how he thinks it would logistically work to patrol 3 million American Muslims, who are not, as Cruz suggested, “ghetto-ized” in festering radical communities.

Cruz admitted, when asked by co-host Norah O’Donnell that he didn’t know how many Muslims lived in the United States.

“So you’re saying that law enforcement should surveil a number of Muslims and you don’t even know how many Muslims are in America,” she said.

Please note I am not saying this isn't a concern (terrorism) But it is Far from the 1# most dangerous issue America faces Unless your a Conservative a party where you can get Terrorism Immigration and weak Military and for additional introductory offer you can throw in for free Gun grabber Gay marriage or losing religious freedoms abortion or Planned parenthood>>> its like a comcast bundle all BS makes you feel like you got something :)

Yea anybody with a brain knows we should be more worried about climate change . The sky is falling !
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There are parts of Brussels that the police do not patrol or control,fearing for their safety. How do you fix this mess without profiling and bigotry and racism?
Specifically where?

Do you mean what street?
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Do you mean what street?
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Anything to substantiate your assertion is fine.

Anything to substantiate your assertion is fine.

Spence, in a general sense, how would you address this? By asking them nicely to stop? By apologizing for everything we did to instigate them? By refusing to concede that 99% of the terrorists are confined to a common set of religious beliefs?

In world history, there have been a small number of situations, where a small number of lunatics wanted to enslave and/or kill everyone else. I don't know that appeasement has ever worked. In the end, it's bullets and bombs that work. I don't like that any more that you do, I just concede the necessity. You will do teh same, only after a sufficient number of innocent people have been slaughtered on the altar of political correctness.

Your intellectual bankruptcy is beyond imagination.

No thats the truth not fear mongering Conservatives are afraid of everything and everyone or have we not been paying attention ?

PS smart people can be morons.. cruz's statement is more than enough to make my point .. for a legal guy he has no issues doing illegal things like locking down Muslim neighborhood out of fear
The CBS hosts pressed Cruz on how he thinks it would logistically work to patrol 3 million American Muslims, who are not, as Cruz suggested, “ghetto-ized” in festering radical communities.

Cruz admitted, when asked by co-host Norah O’Donnell that he didn’t know how many Muslims lived in the United States.

“So you’re saying that law enforcement should surveil a number of Muslims and you don’t even know how many Muslims are in America,” she said.

Please note I am not saying this isn't a concern (terrorism) But it is Far from the 1# most dangerous issue America faces Unless your a Conservative a party where you can get Terrorism Immigration and weak Military and for additional introductory offer you can throw in for free Gun grabber Gay marriage or losing religious freedoms abortion or Planned parenthood>>> its like a comcast bundle all BS makes you feel like you got something :)

"No thats the truth not fear mongering Conservatives are afraid of everything and everyone or have we not been paying attention ?"

Yes, John McCain and Mitt Romney were a couple of hatemongers, while Obama the uniter has been mentored by tolerant love-filled folks such as Rev Wright and Bill Ayers.

Who are we afraid of, besides jihadists, exactly?

?

only ask them to answer a question if you want to be amused by the answer :wave:

Your intellectual bankruptcy is beyond imagination.
Please elaborate on this, I had no idea???

Please elaborate on this, I had no idea???


How about this...you are one of the very, very few people on the planet, who will not (or cannot, not sure which it is) admit that Hilary has an issue with the truth.

On this thread you actually chastised those who are willing to use religion as a basis for terrorism policy, when every rational person in the world can see that one religion is creating 99% of the terrorists who threaten global security?

Along those lines, I asked you this question...if I gave your kids a bowl of 100 gummy bears and told you that exactly 1 was poisoned and would kill whoever eats it...how many would you let your kids eat, before you throw the whole bowl in the garbage? Can you answer that question, please?

Now, human beings aren't the equivalent of a bowl of gummy bears...but peaceful Muslims are freely choosing to be a part of this religion, and they are freely choosing (it seems) to not effectively deal with this problem.

Now, what is the primary responsibility of any governemnt? To protect its citizenry against conceiveable threats.

Spence, during our kids' lifetimes, there will be a reckoning between the Western world, and Islam. Our kids will ask us why we didn't deal with it, they'll ask why we dumped this at their feet. It will be a fair question.

Anyway, to answer your request for elaboration...you refuse to admit that any liberal is wrong on anything, ever. If that's not thoughtless, I don't know what is. I know a lot of peopple who are similarly thoughtless, you are one of the sharper ones, and from what I can tell, one of the more decent ones. Your refusal to criticize anything that they do, is difficult to process.

On this thread you actually chastised those who are willing to use religion as a basis for terrorism policy, when every rational person in the world can see that one religion is creating 99% of the terrorists who threaten global security?



Plants don't grow without seeds. Find out what the seeds are that create terrorism and extremists in the first place and you will see that it isn't Islam but colonialism / Zionism and capitalism.
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Plants don't grow without seeds. Find out what the seeds are that create terrorism and extremists in the first place and you will see that it isn't Islam but colonialism / Zionism and capitalism.
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oh...no....we've really lost him....right over the edge! :crying:

Should this carnage in Brussels have happened.....Brussels knew of these people since at least last summer and France too knew of their radicals prior to their attack...and as in California neighbors in Brussels thought their was something not right about their neigbors movement in and out of the apartmen they were in....nothing was reported to police of suspicious activity

Go to EL airlines in New york and U R scrutinized the moment U enter their terminal

Plants don't grow without seeds. Find out what the seeds are that create terrorism and extremists in the first place and you will see that it isn't Islam but colonialism / Zionism and capitalism.
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The seeds of terrorism and extremism were planted in Islam from its very beginning. We could say that terrorism and extremism are planted in the darkest chasms of human nature. But they rose to the utter surface in the founding and expansion of Islam. Extremism and terrorism are the basic modus operandi of Islam. Even today, in leading Islamic States such as Saudi Arabia and Iran, extremism and terrorism are key instruments used to control and influence. ISIS is a threat to existing Islamic States because it is a competitor against their control of Islam, not because it represents a destruction of Islam or bastardization of it.

If anything, colonialism temporarily blunted Islamic extremism and terrorism. And those who control Islamic States are no less interested in wealth than capitalists are. They have always been so, but they go about it not by producing, buying, and selling, but mostly by confiscation.

As for Zionism, I'm no fan or apologist, but it, not Islamic terrorism and extremism, has been a reactive movement. And it is not what planted the seed of terror in Islam

Anything to substantiate your assertion is fine.

It is not my assertion,I am merely passing on information that I found to be interesting. I have no link to offer, so you may process this as false seeing it does not fit your agenda.

Out of curiosity; do you doubt that Such an area exists in Brussels?
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I believe if you google Molenbeek and have enough time to read all of the articles,then you will find enough to see the information I forwarded is credible.
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Plants don't grow without seeds. Find out what the seeds are that create terrorism and extremists in the first place and you will see that it isn't Islam but colonialism / Zionism and capitalism.
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"Plants don't grow without seeds"

Wow, thanks. This may surprise you, but some zoologists now say that plants and human beings are, in fact, different.

Yes, we need to do a bit to win the hearts and minds, and mend some fences. But we're also going to kill a lot of people. Nebe, America has done more for Muslims worldwide, than any nation in the history o fth eEarth. Who helped the Afghanis fight the Soviets? Who helped feed the Somalis? Who helped liberate Kuwait? In addiiotn, there i sno better nation on Earth to live as a Muslim, than America. We have bled and dieds for these people. It's not enough. They want us to grow zz top beards and force our women to dress like ninjas and be illiterate. No, thanks.

So you're willing to do away with "capitalism" to appease the terrorists? Don't you own your own business for Christ's sake?

So you're willing to do away with "capitalism" to appease the terrorists? Don't you own your own business for Christ's sake?

This is not a personal attack on Eben .

Most business owners that support Bernie are either A) not following the regulations . B) being paid in cash or barter , C) paying thier help in cash so as to avoid the hassle and cost involved in payroll or most likely D) all of the above .
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. Find out what the seeds are that create terrorism and extremists in the first place and you will see that it isn't Islam .
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No? Islam isn't the root of terrorism?

Islam i sbased on the life and teachings of Mohammed. I take it you're not an expert on the subject. He was a bloodthirsty, greedy, barbaric conquerer. The Japanese your grandfather fought against, took a page right out of his book. He was a bloodthirsty lunatic who killed everyone he didn't like. And this religion is based on him. And you deny that the violence comes from within the religion.

Plants don't grow without seeds. Find out what the seeds are that create terrorism and extremists in the first place and you will see that it isn't Islam but colonialism / Zionism and capitalism.
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Interesting Article from a former Federal Prosecutor that explains otherwise with examples from the book.

http://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/islam-facts-or-dreams/

Interesting Article from a former Federal Prosecutor that explains otherwise with examples from the book.

http://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/islam-facts-or-dreams/

Impressive to say the least
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Impressive to say the least
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Damn right it was.

Interesting Article from a former Federal Prosecutor that explains otherwise with examples from the book.

http://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/islam-facts-or-dreams/

I see your link and raise you this one.

http://www.thenation.com/article/heres-what-a-man-who-studied-every-suicide-attack-in-the-world-says-about-isiss-motives/
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I see your link and raise you this one.

http://www.thenation.com/article/heres-what-a-man-who-studied-every-suicide-attack-in-the-world-says-about-isiss-motives/
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Interesting . Blames Bush lol
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Think hard now. Think of the days before bush and when and why suicide bombers did their deeds. I know you can do it!

Life is not cause and effect. Life is a series of events that lead to another series of events. 5 plus 5 is 10 but 1 plus 1 a number of times equals 10 as well.

Saying Islam Is evil because they have suicide bombers is like saying that there is only 10 and forgetting that you need at least 9 other things to add to it to get there.
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Think hard now. Think of the days before bush and when and why suicide bombers did their deeds. I know you can do it!

Life is not cause and effect. Life is a series of events that lead to another series of events. 5 plus 5 is 10 but 1 plus 1 a number of times equals 10 as well.

Saying Islam Is evil because they have suicide bombers is like saying that there is only 10 and forgetting that you need at least 9 other things to add to it to get there.
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Yet many condemn the Catholic religion because of a few very dispicable molesters . Tell me you don't look at priest differently now . Sadly even I do and I spent 12 years in Catholic schools .
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Again. Cause and effect. A catholic priest is forced to stay unwed and not have sexual relations with women. That's the cause. The effect is pedophilia. If the pope was to have that rule changed I believe that that problem would go away. I don't view Catholic religion as a whole badly because of that problem. If it brings people security and happiness, then I'm happy for them.
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Yet many condemn the Catholic religion because of a few very dispicable molesters . Tell me you don't look at priest differently now . Sadly even I do and I spent 12 years in Catholic schools .
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Most people I know don't "condemn the Catholic religion because of a few very dispicable molesters," they condemn the decades long systemic efforts by senior members of the entire church to cover it up.

It is not my assertion,I am merely passing on information that I found to be interesting. I have no link to offer, so you may process this as false seeing it does not fit your agenda.

Out of curiosity; do you doubt that Such an area exists in Brussels?
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From what I've read it's a lower to middle class area but not the hotbed of violence you characterize it as. I've never read anywhere that police fear to go there, in contrast it's supposed to be pretty sedate.

Just after the Paris attacks I was having lunch with several Belgians and they were flabbergasted at how the America media was portraying the situation in their country. That doesn't mean they don't have issues...

No? Islam isn't the root of terrorism?

Islam i sbased on the life and teachings of Mohammed. I take it you're not an expert on the subject. He was a bloodthirsty, greedy, barbaric conquerer. The Japanese your grandfather fought against, took a page right out of his book. He was a bloodthirsty lunatic who killed everyone he didn't like. And this religion is based on him. And you deny that the violence comes from within the religion.
Jim, I've mentioned this before but you really should read up on your religious history.

Again. Cause and effect. A catholic priest is forced to stay unwed and not have sexual relations with women. That's the cause. The effect is pedophilia. If the pope was to have that rule changed I believe that that problem would go away. I don't view Catholic religion as a whole badly because of that problem. If it brings people security and happiness, then I'm happy for them.
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Yea I don't think so . Good thing you're not a theripist
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Most people I know don't "condemn the Catholic religion because of a few very dispicable molesters," they condemn the decades long systemic efforts by senior members of the entire church to cover it up.

Bingo. That's the problem with Islam .
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Bingo. That's the problem with Islam .
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Yes. That's the problem. Not Islam itself.
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Yes. That's the problem. Not Islam itself.
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It's within Islam.
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It's within Islam.
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Other way around, Islam is within the problem.

Again. Cause and effect. A catholic priest is forced to stay unwed and not have sexual relations with women. That's the cause. The effect is pedophilia. If the pope was to have that rule changed I believe that that problem would go away. I don't view Catholic religion as a whole badly because of that problem. If it brings people security and happiness, then I'm happy for them.
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"A catholic priest is forced to stay unwed and not have sexual relations with women. That's the cause"

Jesus God Almighty, you are saying that the priest lifestylye turned these guys (who were previously normal) into monsters? First, they were't "pedophiles" they were "homosexual predators" (the victims were overwhelmingly post-puberty boys...that's NOT pedophilia, it's homosexual predation, but you won't hear many liberals say that out loud). They were homosexual predators who lied their way into the priesthood to have access to victims. At that time in our history (when we didn't know much about these abusers) it was also happenig in schools and with doctors. Did those professions "turn" previously normal people into the monsters they became? No. They were monsters to begin with.

Nebe, no priest ever said as he was abusing these boys "God Bless Jesus who commanded me to do this". The religion had nohting to do with their hideous actions. The jihadists, on the other hand, are motivated purely be religion.

No comparison, except for the damage done to victims, of course.

"If the pope was to have that rule changed I believe that that problem would go away"

Then please explain why there are sexual predators in many other professions that don't prohibit one from getting married.

Other way around, Islam is within the problem.

So if the problem is equaly spread among followers of all religions, kindly explain why Christians, Jews, Mormons, Menonites, and the Amish, aren't trying to kill/enslave everyone who doesn't believe exactly what they believe? How is it possible, that you don't see that? There are Christians who live in back-breaking poverty. They aren't threatening world stability.

From what I've read it's a lower to middle class area but not the hotbed of violence you characterize it as. I've never read anywhere that police fear to go there, in contrast it's supposed to be pretty sedate.

Just after the Paris attacks I was having lunch with several Belgians and they were flabbergasted at how the America media was portraying the situation in their country. That doesn't mean they don't have issues...

Jeff, do not read between the lines here. Please show me where I characterized it as a hotbed of violence. I was simply passing on information. The fact that your limited reading was incapable of revealing the same facts has nothing to do with the reality of the situation.
My guess is that if you were dining with this alleged group of Belgians today,their opinions of their plight may have changed.
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Additionally, if you actually did Google Molenbeek then you certainly would have come to a similar conclusion based on every article that displays regarding the area. Did you expect it to be a high income area where food and beverage are the draw? Would you drop Junior off for karate lessons there? What about Mrs Spence,would you feel safe leaving her there for her hair and nails?
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Additionally, if you actually did Google Molenbeek then you certainly would have come to a similar conclusion based on every article that displays regarding the area. Did you expect it to be a high income area where food and beverage are the draw? Would you drop Junior off for karate lessons there? What about Mrs Spence,would you feel safe leaving her there for her hair and nails?
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Great points. Spence, this is the problem with the Muslim culture - when they immigrate to a new place (like Belgium), they don't make any attempts to assimmilate. So you have an area that's populated by illiterate, unemployable people who don't speak the language, and they make no effort to improve their standing. They have no desire to adopt a Belgian lifestyle. So they build these little enclaves in Belgium that look like the sh*tholes they left in Syria, way more than they resemble any other place in Belgium.

Sweden is further down this path, and they are getting ready to kick 'em all out.

Teddy Roosevelt once said "immigration without assimilation, is an invasion". A western nation can certainly have many ethnicities. It can only have one culture. I don't want a bunch of miniature versions of Syria here in the US, where the girls are beaten and not allowed to go to school. If a nation allows these people to live there, the Muslims have the responsibility of assimmilating a bit. And by and large, they won't. And that's on them, not on us.

Again. Cause and effect. A catholic priest is forced to stay unwed and not have sexual relations with women. That's the cause. The effect is pedophilia. If the pope was to have that rule changed I believe that that problem would go away. I don't view Catholic religion as a whole badly because of that problem. If it brings people security and happiness, then I'm happy for them.
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Really?? You can't have sex with women so little boys will have to do. If you couldn't have sex with women would the Paperboy start looking good.

Then explain Little League coaches, scout leaders, and other youth organizations that have had to deal with that problem.

It takes a damaged person to commit those atrocities to children. Not lack of nookie

Like was stated, the problem was with the cover up and allowing it to go on.
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Really?? You can't have sex with women so little boys will have to do. If you couldn't have sex with women would the Paperboy start looking good.

Then explain Little League coaches, scout leaders, and other youth organizations that have had to deal with that problem.

It takes a damaged person to commit those atrocities to children. Not lack of nookie

Like was stated, the problem was with the cover up and allowing it to go on.
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Don't forget married men 😂
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Really?? You can't have sex with women so little boys will have to do. If you couldn't have sex with women would the Paperboy start looking good.

Then explain Little League coaches, scout leaders, and other youth organizations that have had to deal with that problem.

It takes a damaged person to commit those atrocities to children. Not lack of nookie

Like was stated, the problem was with the cover up and allowing it to go on.
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Compare that to jihadists, who may have been deranged before they found Islam. But at a minimum, Islam is fueling the fire of their homicidal tendencies. And in some cases at least, Islam was the original spark.

Comparing jihadists to the gay priests is crazy. Better to compare them to those who bomb abortion clinics, those are maniacs who are killing in the name of their religion. And they have killed, what, 12 people since abortion was legalized? They need to be routed from our midst, just like the jihadists.

I see your link and raise you this one.

http://www.thenation.com/article/heres-what-a-man-who-studied-every-suicide-attack-in-the-world-says-about-isiss-motives/
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Contrary to the article's contention that suicide bombings are about strictly secular acquisition of territory and resources, religious fervor is an important part of the equation.

The example of Tamil Tigers, Marxists, once being the world leader in suicide attacks, negating the idea that religious fervor is the sole motive for those attacks, misses the overall point that doctrine is motive whether its secular Marxism or fundamentalist Islam. Both types of suicide bombings are matters of doctrine. It would be idiotic for a suicide bomber to kill himself in order to gain territory or resources, at least so in this earthly life. But it would be rational if he believes he would gain resources in the next life.

And the article misses the whole point of Islam. The article separates secular desire from religious desire. That separation may exist in most other major religions, but there is no such separation in Islam. Islam, in its theocratic doctrine, is a secular religion. It is closer to Marxism than to Western secular democracy. And, like Marxism, it wishes to expand its territorial dominance worldwide. The major difference between the two, I suppose, is some notion of an all powerful Allah in one, and an all powerful dictatorship of some proletariat in the other. But in the end, each physically eliminates or subjugates dissidents and creates a utopia for the faithful. Socialism is not a whole lot different.

The article says 95% of suicide attacks since 1980 have in common that all are a response to military intervention. Even though there may have been different doctrines which provoked the suicide attacks, whether Marxists, nationalistic, religious, etc., it, again emphasizes the common thread, "military intervention," and avoids the different threads of doctrine. Which subtly negates the importance of doctrine.

And it discounts the motive for military intervention. It is cast as the sole boogey man. But military intervention is also a matter of doctrine. And there are different doctrinal motives for intervention. Some, as in US intervention, are actually a response to a foreign doctrine, such as Islam, that has attacked the US and threatens to continue to do so. And, in the case of Islam, its attacks have occurred before military intervention as a means to establish Islamic control.

The article wants to make foreign occupation as the motive for ISIS suicide bombings, but it doesn't account for the spread of so-called radical Islamism other than tracing the emergence of ISIS back to Afghan resistance to soviet occupation. But he doesn't account for the spread of Islam into previously unoccupied territories which were not Islamic. That spread has been true of Islam since its founding. Before Islam, the Middle East was diverse with a good deal of territory being Christian or Jewish. Not long ago, Lebanon was 80% Christian. Now it's more than 80% Muslim and growing more so.

The takeover of the Middle East and other Eastern countries by Islam was not due to revolts against foreign occupation. Islam was the invader of non-Islamic territories. It was not foreign "military intervention" against Muslims which created the expansion of Islam, it was the military intervention and terroristic tactics of Muslims against others which created that expansion. It was a theocratic radical named Muhammad who created a doctrine which called for world domination by his followers.

The article uses Abu Hamza as a source. Yet Abu Hamza became disillusioned with ISIS because the leaders, according to him, were not "good Muslims." That is, "they just wanted power." He called the foreign recruits "good Muslims." I presume by that he meant they were inspired by Islam not by acquisition of power. But the problem with that is that what he calls "good Muslims" have a different view of Islam than did its founder. Even the leaders of the epicenters of Islam, Saudi Arabia and Iran, have different views of Islam than what Hamza naively believes are "good Muslims." As McCarthy pointed out in the article posted by fishpart, what fundamentalist Islamists such as the Blind Sheikh, and by extension others such as ISIS, practice is in accordance to Islam's founding scripture. "Moderate" Muslims, like Hamza perhaps is, believe Islam is some religion of peace even though that is not demonstrated by scripture. As McCarthy pointed out, average Muslims can't answer fundamental questions about their theocracy. They leave that up to the Islamic scholars, such as the Blind Sheikh for instance, to say what doctrine means. And if they say Islam is a religion of peace, they literally accept that. Some, like Hamza, also accept that it is their duty, as a "good muslim" to jihad against those who threaten Islam. But, from what Hamza said about the leaders of ISIS, he probably would not agree with what Muhammad did if he knew the historical record rather than accepting the religious indoctrination that Muhammad was the perfect man. And if all "good" people, as he no doubt assumes he is, felt back in the day, as he does now, Islam may never have been created.

A reformation of Islam would have to condemn its founder in the same way that so many Muslims now claim to condemn radical Islamists. So a reformation of Islam would require the evolution of a totally new religion.

.

Cause and effect. A catholic priest is forced to stay unwed and not have sexual relations with women. That's the cause. The effect is pedophilia. If the pope was to have that rule changed I believe that that problem would go away.


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what the hell are you smokin' lately :rotf2:

Jeff, do not read between the lines here. Please show me where I characterized it as a hotbed of violence. I was simply passing on information. The fact that your limited reading was incapable of revealing the same facts has nothing to do with the reality of the situation.
My guess is that if you were dining with this alleged group of Belgians today,their opinions of their plight may have changed.
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I would assume that if police thought the area was too violent to patrol then yes, it would be a hotbed of violence.

What's sad is that the police were there, they even knew the location of the Paris attacker yet failed to notify federal authorities.

Bigger security issues here are the cultural unwillingness to assimilate immigrants, extreme privacy laws and systemic communication failures from local to the EU.

Deleted

How does it help the GOP to suppress Democratic voting in the primary? In the general election, yes. In the primary? What's to be gained?

I would assume that if police thought the area was too violent to patrol then yes, it would be a hotbed of violence.

What's sad is that the police were there, they even knew the location of the Paris attacker yet failed to notify federal authorities.

Bigger security issues here are the cultural unwillingness to assimilate immigrants, extreme privacy laws and systemic communication failures from local to the EU.
All it means Jeff is that people get nervous when they enter an environment that has the potential for hostility,even police.I appreciate your opinion, however every country has areas in their security to exploit. I stand by my original statement.
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How does it help the GOP to suppress Democratic voting in the primary? In the general election, yes. In the primary? What's to be gained?



I thought I hit new thread guess not

The US takes in around 100,000 refugees a year already and many are Muslim. Those potentially coming from Syria don't get to choose which country they're sent to and go through a long vetting process. If your intent was to harm America it wouldn't be a very prudent path to take.

What really scares the hell out of me is that the top two GOP candidates are calling for the US to scrutinize people because of their religion.

Great, let's put all the Muslim police, business professionals, military and doctors under surveillance...it's about the religion right?

Two of these guys appear to be known criminals both in Brussles. Issues here run much deeper than your whitewashing Islam as the problem.

Funny how I don't hear the intelligence community or law enforcement calling for religious bigotry, they want cooperation and intelligence.


your opinion of what is or is not prudent is of no concern of these terrorists, they flew planes into buildings but you are scared of candidates suggesting preventative measures. This is America, when threatened, we defend, that is what we do, this president won't go on offense apparently, he won't even say the words radical Islamic.

There is smart and then there is stupid


did you read about this poor guy? Members of Islam want to kill you too
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/03/26/muslim-murders-muslim-moments-after-wishing-beloved-christian-nation-happy-easter/

Jeff : "Please don' t harm me, I voted for Hillary."
Terrorist: "You have a purty mouth."
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The suicide blast, in the eastern Pakistan city of Lahore, killed at least 69 people, a local government spokesman told CNN.

"Mostly women and children are killed and injured in the blast target Christians and others near a kids amusement park ride



Its not just Americans or European or our way of life that extremist target they just want to kill violence is their only weapon 1 bomb gives them more advertising and voice than a 1million peaceful protest

They don't need much of a reason to kill

Jeff : "Please don' t harm me, I voted for Hillary."
Terrorist: "You have a purty mouth."
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Didn't the guy who said that take an arrow through the head?

your opinion of what is or is not prudent is of no concern of these terrorists, they flew planes into buildings but you are scared of candidates suggesting preventative measures. This is America, when threatened, we defend, that is what we do, this president won't go on offense apparently, he won't even say the words radical Islamic.
Nobody, including Obama, is stating we don't defend ourselves. The difference is simply that Obama's policy has an appreciation for the real root-cause drivers of the terror problem. A big piece of this is how disillusionment feeds the radicalization engine.

ISIS was begging the US to invade a few years ago. Had we done so the situation today would likely be 100x worse than it is. There's a reason we're not carpet bombing as Ted Cruz promises to do, because it would turn the entire population against us leave millions without any infrastructure in which to live.

The big pieces of this puzzle have been slowly moving in place for a century, there's no simple or quick solution. I'd note that over the past year ISIS leadership and their territory are both shrinking...

Slip, you do realize that defend has a different definition than attack, right?
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Nobody, including Obama, is stating we don't defend ourselves. The difference is simply that Obama's policy has an appreciation for the real root-cause drivers of the terror problem. A big piece of this is how disillusionment feeds the radicalization engine.

ISIS was begging the US to invade a few years ago. Had we done so the situation today would likely be 100x worse than it is. There's a reason we're not carpet bombing as Ted Cruz promises to do, because it would turn the entire population against us leave millions without any infrastructure in which to live.

The big pieces of this puzzle have been slowly moving in place for a century, there's no simple or quick solution. I'd note that over the past year ISIS leadership and their territory are both shrinking...

A result of this thoughtful approach is the refugee crisis and thousands slaughtered . Once again you blindly follow the script put fourth by an appeaser not a leader .
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It is my belief that the best defense is a strong offense, we don't have a strong offense. Nebe, if we can find them then attack is ok by me.

no need to carpet bomb, I agree that will make matters worse.

mistakes have been made, there is time to correct them

Sounds like you have a good recipe for a hell of a lot more violence.

Why not figure out why they are willing to die and figure out a solution ?
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Aren't there people working on that?
I'm here minding my own business paying my taxes and voting, when I have time, sometimes fish

violence? when you get hit, you hit back
arrest the terrorists
no different with any other criminals

Sounds like you have a good recipe for a hell of a lot more violence.

Why not figure out why they are willing to die and figure out a solution ?
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"Why not figure out why they are willing to die "

BECAUSE THEIR RELIGION comands them to martyr themselves, if necessary, to kill everyone who doesn't want to wear a beard and beat their women.

"figure out a solution"

The solution is exactly the same as Obama's solution to dealing with the 3 pirates who held guns to the head of Captaiun Phillips. A bullet to the brain. That's the end ganme here. The only unknown, is exactly how many innocents have to first be sacrificed on the altar of bullsh*t political correctness, before the liberal delusionals come around and accept the facts.

Nobody, including Obama, is stating we don't defend ourselves. The difference is simply that Obama's policy has an appreciation for the real root-cause drivers of the terror problem.

"The difference is simply that Obama's policy has an appreciation for the real root-cause drivers of the terror problem"

And how is Obama's policy working out? Is the Middle East more stable, or less stable, than it was 7 years ago?

"I'd note that over the past year ISIS leadership and their territory are both shrinking"

And I'm certain that comes as great comfort to the families of the victims in Belgium and France.

Nobody, including Obama, is stating we don't defend ourselves. The difference is simply that Obama's policy has an appreciation for the real root-cause drivers of the terror problem. A big piece of this is how disillusionment feeds the radicalization engine.

If disillusion is the freeing of self from illusion doesn't that free the self to see what is real? If one were disillusioned with his religion wouldn't he abandon it rather than embrace it more deeply?

If the disillusion is in other people's way of life, should he not be happy that he did not have to live their way? Why would he sacrifice his life to destroy someone else's illusion? And if he were disenchanted with the illusion that someone other than of his religion or people occupied his territory, why would he not be satisfied when those others left?

Could it be that disillusion is not a "real root cause driver"?

ISIS was begging the US to invade a few years ago. Had we done so the situation today would likely be 100x worse than it is. There's a reason we're not carpet bombing as Ted Cruz promises to do, because it would turn the entire population against us leave millions without any infrastructure in which to live.

Need we conjecture about what if? What if we hadn't pulled our troops out of Iraq in the first place? We don't know, do we? And 100x worse is a tad exaggerated, don't you think? Isn't that the type of hyperbole that Jim in CT is criticized for? And aren't millions leaving the ISIS areas as it is? If the entire population was against us, maybe they wouldn't want to come here. Many of us would think that is a good thing.

At any rate, what you conjecture verges on gibberish.

The big pieces of this puzzle have been slowly moving in place for a century, there's no simple or quick solution. I'd note that over the past year ISIS leadership and their territory are both shrinking...

It's good that over the past year ISIS leadership and territory have shrunk. If ISIS is eradicated, with a protracted soft war rather than a precipitous harsh one (occaisionally infused with Russian harshness) will that solve the "puzzle?"

So it's a puzzle. And we are appreciating the "real root cause drivers" of the puzzle. And we are a century into the appreciating, but haven't quite got it yet.

Some, on the other hand, see the "puzzle" as having moved for well over a millennium. And not gotten any nearer a solution. Rather, the pieces periodically fall apart and re-pattern in various ways, but always a puzzle.

Except for those pieces of the puzzle who are not illusioned. Who are, and have always been, sure. They have always held to the confidence of their convictions. Gee, I wonder who they could be. Perhaps, if the rest of us were disillusioned about the nature of Islam the puzzle would fit together perfectly. But we must never point to Islam being a part of the puzzle. There are, after all, fixable parts . . . such as "real root cause drivers."

And how is Obama's policy working out? Is the Middle East more stable, or less stable, than it was 7 years ago?
I'm not sure your expectations are very realistic.

It is my belief that the best defense is a strong offense, we don't have a strong offense.

We have the Number 1 offense in the league......its just that the coach is choosing to sit on the ball and run out the clock.
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I'm not sure your expectations are very realistic.


Oh, so if I expect him not to give away all the gains provided by The Surge, if I ask him just to maintain the status quo, that's asking too much. Turns out you are right, that would be asking way too much of this idiot.

I'm not sure your expectations are very realistic.

So you are conceding (without saying it of course) that the Middle East is worse off now, than before the Messiah was coronated?

I'm not sure your expectations are very realistic.

We really can't lower the bar anymore Spence .
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We have the Number 1 offense in the league......its just that the coach is choosing to sit on the ball and run out the clock.
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like that basketball team did over the weekend? how'd that work out?

We really can't lower the bar anymore Spence .
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Correct. Even Hilary, especially if Bill is giving her any advice, would be an improvement.

Obama...always wrong, yet never in doubt.

like that basketball team did over the weekend? how'd that work out?

Lots of times that strategy bites you in the ass
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So you are conceding (without saying it of course) that the Middle East is worse off now, than before the Messiah was coronated?

I love theses statements ^^^^^^

Please provide us with a date and Time that the middle east hasn't been messed up in your eyes and pleases lets not go back 100 years to do it

Conservatives have the amazing ability to Blame Obama for anything that occurs in other sovereign countries or domestic . even a Supreme court justice nomination.... if Obama agrees with them!!! the'll just Blacktrack


blacktrack
black·track intransitive verb \’blak-,trak\

The act of changing your mind because President
Obama has agreed with you.
also see pulling a 1 hatey or the Kenyan boomerang

Please provide us with a date and Time that the middle east hasn't been messed up in your eyes and pleases lets not go back 100 years to do it
Remember, some of these guys can't see beyond their noses. If there's a cold day in June then climate change isn't real right?

It's no wonder Trump is winning the GOP nomination right now.

Remember, some of these guys can't see beyond their noses. If there's a cold day in June then climate change isn't real right?

It's no wonder Trump is winning the GOP nomination right now.

Yea cause you must be beaming over your candidate .
If there's a hurricane in Sept it must be climate change . We never had bad weather before fossil fuels .
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I love theses statements ^^^^^^

Please provide us with a date and Time that the middle east hasn't been messed up in your eyes and pleases lets not go back 100 years to do it

Conservatives have the amazing ability to Blame Obama for anything that occurs in other sovereign countries or domestic . even a Supreme court justice nomination.... if Obama agrees with them!!! the'll just Blacktrack


blacktrack
black·track intransitive verb \’blak-,trak\

The act of changing your mind because President
Obama has agreed with you.
also see pulling a 1 hatey or the Kenyan boomerang

"Please provide us with a date and Time that the middle east hasn't been messed up in your eyes "

Once again, instead of respondong to what I actually said, you claimed that I said something else, something not even close to what I actually said.

I never, ever said the Middle Eastern wasn't messed up. I said it was better on January 1 2008, than it is now. Before Obama got elected, Iraq had free, stable elections. The jihadists were decimated. I am sorry if that history lesson doesn't make Obama look swell. But that's what Iraq looked like when he took office.
After he withdrew, much of the territory we took during the Surge, was overtaken by ISIS.

WDMSO, is that true, or not?

Remember, some of these guys can't see beyond their noses. If there's a cold day in June then climate change isn't real right?

It's no wonder Trump is winning the GOP nomination right now.

This from the guy who said it's an "improvement" to take self-determination away from registered Democrats, in th eevent that they choose something other than what the party leaders want.

"If there's a cold day in June then climate change isn't real right?"

You never, ever see me saying anyhting that stupid. But when every single prediction made by the climate-change hysterics proves to be 100% false, any rational person would question the accuracy of their models. Not suprising that the guy who doesn't trust registered democrats to pick a candidate, doesn't think they should be able to decide if they have the right to turn on the air conditioner.

How long of a list would you like, of predictions that climate chnge fanatics made, that didn't come true? If they were right, North Dakota would be exporting pineapples by now. If they were wrong about all that, perhaps they were wrong about other things. That's all I am saying.

"Please provide us with a date and Time that the middle east hasn't been messed up in your eyes "

Once again, instead of respondong to what I actually said, you claimed that I said something else, something not even close to what I actually said.

I never, ever said the Middle Eastern wasn't messed up. I said it was better on January 1 2008, than it is now. Before Obama got elected, Iraq had free, stable elections. The jihadists were decimated. I am sorry if that history lesson doesn't make Obama look swell. But that's what Iraq looked like when he took office.
After he withdrew, much of the territory we took during the Surge, was overtaken by ISIS.

WDMSO, is that true, or not?

not true.. the elections were only free and stable because we had boots on the ground I was there ... when we left as we should have.. the elections weren't stable they went back to shia vs sunni .. the Jihadist were not decimated the ones in Sunni Iraq Al Anbar Sunnis just blended in and when the sunni replacement for al qaeda aka ISIS they re emerged in Al Anbar province .( we didnt loose any ground it happen under sovereign Nation the Iraqis lost it not the USA mostly because the Shia central government did not engage in reconciliation and the it was still an active hot spot for jihadist close to Syria where most of the Jihadist crossed into Iraq to fight us .. sadly your history is not history but rather revisionist history lacking the whole story to suit your argument .. that all the problems in the world have been the cause of 1 man the POTUS.. and that alone shows the inability for you to discus objectively and rationally anything that involves Obama

that all the problems in the world have been the cause of 1 man the POTUS.. and that alone shows the inability for you to discus objectively and rationally anything that involves Obama

"that all the problems in the world have been the cause of 1 man the POTUS"

well, if I had EVER said that, you would have a point, I suppose. Again, you are responding to something I never said (liberals really like doing that). But he is in charge, and the buck stops with him, does it not?

"inability for you to discus objectively and rationally anything that involves Obama"

How's this for objectivity?

Despite adding to our debt more than (I think) all 43 previous presidents combined, our recovery from this recession has been the slowest ever. GDP growth has been pathetic.

He said his stimulus would keep unemployment under 8%. It didn't.

He said Obamacare would save the average famile $2,500 a year, it didn't.

He said Obamacare would allow us to keep our plans/doctors, it doesn't.

Despite all that spending, we have more Americans on food stamps and in poverty

Iraq was stable when he took office. Against the advice of many, he didn't seek a SOFA, he pulled out, and ISIS moved right in.

He drew a "red line" in the ground and warned Syria not to use chemical weapons. They did.

He called ISIS the "JV", and the day before the terrorist attack in Paris, said they were contained. They aren't.

On race, we are way more divided now than we have ever been.

The stock market is way up. That's a good thing. That's about the only large-scale good thing you can point to.

He is constantly wrong, most of what he touches turns to vomit, yet he still has that arrogance. He could fall down a flight of stairs, get up, and act like he just scored the winning touchdown in the Super Bowl. Here is what his epitaph should read...Obama...always wrong, yet never in doubt.

Obama has never once admitting being wrong or making a mistake on ANYTHING. How is that even the slightest bit reasonable?
Make you wonder why this man cares more about himself than this country

Obama has never once admitting being wrong or making a mistake on ANYTHING. How is that even the slightest bit reasonable?
Make you wonder why this man cares more about himself than this country

I don't see trump admitting wrong doing. Ever......
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I don't see trump admitting wrong doing. Ever......
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Agreed. Narcissism runs deep with those two. So does the azzhole gene.

An interesting side note. I read last night that trump's head strategist quit yesterday after he tweeted that only he could solve what happened in Pakistan on Easter. She said she was hired to insure that he only came in 2nd place in the primaries. So there you have it. This has only been a huge publicity stunt.
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http://www.xojane.com/issues/stephanie-cegielski-donald-trump-campaign-defector
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Obama has never once admitting being wrong or making a mistake on ANYTHING. How is that even the slightest bit reasonable?
This is not true.

This is not true.

Is pretty much true.

Here's one of my favorites. His trillion dollar stimulus bill ws going to keep unemployment below 8%. It sure as hell didn't. When someone got around to asking him why he was off by millions of jobs, he thought it was humorous. We've come a long, long way from "the buck stops with me".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p4-vPrcDBo

Everything good that happens, he gets credit for. Everything bad that happens, is someone else's fault.

"Hey everyone, I borrowed a trillion dollars, then spent it, and it didn't do anywhere near as much good as I promised it would! Hardy har har! Now who do I talk to about getting my bust on Mt Rushmore?"

well doesn't that tell you the country is REALLY screwed up?
Trump does not care what anyone thinks about him

we missed our chance at eliminating the deficit and lobbyists a long time ago with Ross Perot when he chose his running mate and he dropped out and got back in.

NAFTA needs to be repealed along with the thousand other things to be fixed

I voted for Ross :)
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A view of Muslim assimilation in France and Belgium:

http://theresurgent.com/this-is-how-islam-integrates-into-europe/

I don't see trump admitting wrong doing. Ever......
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trump had 2 great teaches.....obama & hillary....lol...:)

"Hey everyone, I borrowed a trillion dollars, then spent it, and it didn't do anywhere near as much good as I promised it would! Hardy har har! Now who do I talk to about getting my bust on Mt Rushmore?"
Your material is getting old.

Your material is getting old.

You can't claim I'm wrong. So you tell me to shut up.

Let's see, first you said it's an "improvement" that the democrats in charge of the party, don't let registered democrats pick who they want; then you said my expectations for Obama were unrealistic (when I said it would have been nice if he didn't hand Iraq over to ISIS on a silver platter); and now you're tired of hearing me point out (correctly) that Obama spent a trillion dollars on something that completely failed to deliver on his promised benefits.

If that's too old, let's talk about current events. While the people in Brussels were scraping severed limbs off the street, Obama was s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g up to a dictator who provides asylum for someone on the FBI's most wanted list, then he does the tango worse than it has ever been done, showing us that he even sucks at the one thing you might still have reason to believe he could possibly be good at.

"that all the problems in the world have been the cause of 1 man the POTUS"

well, if I had EVER said that, you would have a point, I suppose. Again, you are responding to something I never said (liberals really like doing that). But he is in charge, and the buck stops with him, does it not?

"inability for you to discus objectively and rationally anything that involves Obama"

How's this for objectivity?

Despite adding to our debt more than (I think) all 43 previous presidents combined, our recovery from this recession has been the slowest ever. GDP growth has been pathetic.

2 wars cost money

He said his stimulus would keep unemployment under 8%. It didn't.

currently 4.9%

He said Obamacare would save the average famile $2,500 a year, it didn't. No it didn't but not sure who thought it would I know i didn't

He said Obamacare would allow us to keep our plans/doctors, it doesn't.

I kept my doctor

Despite all that spending, we have more Americans on food stamps and in poverty called the great recession if you didn't know

Iraq was stable when he took office. Against the advice of many, he didn't seek a SOFA, he pulled out, and ISIS moved right in.
all ready addressed not correct ISIS never left and Iraqis wanted us Gone

He drew a "red line" in the ground and warned Syria not to use chemical weapons. They did. And whats your point go to war

He called ISIS the "JV", and the day before the terrorist attack in Paris, said they were contained. They aren't. wasn't ISIS players they were French Nationals inspired by ISIS learn the difference

On race, we are way more divided now than we have ever been.

Because whites dont like the truth on what happen in other communities outside their own its Faux outrage And a POTUS being having empathy with Blacks is un American

The stock market is way up. That's a good thing. That's about the only large-scale good thing you can point to. agreed but i wouldn't give much credit there

He is constantly wrong, most of what he touches turns to vomit, yet he still has that arrogance. He could fall down a flight of stairs, get up, and act like he just scored the winning touchdown in the Super Bowl. Here is what his epitaph should read...Obama...always wrong, yet never in doubt.

And he'll go down as one of the Best Presidents in History that will be based on Facts not Fox news .. 2 terms and a do nothing congress how could a 1\2black Potus get so much done with so little

And he'll go down as one of the Best Presidents in History




now that's funny!

And he'll go down as one of the Best Presidents in History that will be based on Facts not Fox news .. 2 terms and a do nothing congress how could a 1\2black Potus get so much done with so little


When you and your family are turned into Muslims, then you will know the answer
plenty of enablers in this country

When you and your family are turned into Muslims, then you will know the answer
plenty of enablers in this country

Now that is funny. If it ever got even slightly close to that, there would have to have been a serious war.
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And he'll go down as one of the Best Presidents in History that will be based on Facts not Fox news .. 2 terms and a do nothing congress how could a 1\2black Potus get so much done with so little

"2 wars cost money "

True. And fair...

"currently 4.9%"

WDMSO, what would it take for you to consider all the facts, not just the ones you happen to like. The man didn't say that unemployment would go to double digits, then come back down foue years later He said it wouldn't get above 8%. He was way, way, way off. Is that true, or not?

"No it didn't but not sure who thought it would "

I just told you who thought so...Obama. That's one way he sold this thing. Look it up. I am not making it up, I am correct. Are you feeling OK?

"They did. And whats your point go to war "

Hmmm...how baout this...now Obama has exactly ZERO credibility to make such a demand of threat. There is no reason for our enemies to take us seriously, which pretty much explains the state of the world right now.

"Because whites dont like the truth"

Said the guy who (1) denies that Obama said the stimulus package would keep unemployment below 7%, and (2) the guy who claims that Obama didn't promise that Obamacare would save the average family $2500 a year. Yeah, let's all look to you for the truth. How about Black Lives Matter, are all those people white folk who hate the truth??

"And he'll go down as one of the Best Presidents in History "

Sure, if you are an abortionist or a terrorist, you might consider him a solid POTUS.

2 terms and a do nothing congress how could a 1\2black Potus get so much done with so little

For half of hi sfirst term, the Dems controlled congress. Hi ssignature achievement was the stimulus bill, which if you judge by the promises Obama made, was a flop. Even he admitted as much in the video I posted.

Man. That's some filter you have for what facts get processed, and which facts get dismissed.

And he'll go down as one of the Best Presidents in History that will be based on Facts not Fox news .. 2 terms and a do nothing congress how could a 1\2black Potus get so much done with so little

Do nothing congress which in his first 2 years was controlled by the Democrats which choose to do nothing including passing Obama care.
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http://www.xojane.com/issues/stephanie-cegielski-donald-trump-campaign-defector
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This super pac was dissolved in October and she never even met Trump he doesn't want or need super pac support so to me she is just a disgruntled ex employee who wants 15 minutes of fame and wants to hurt Trump since he rejected her support.
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This is not true.
Should we take your word for it? Perhaps you could provide some evidence to back that up.
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Should we take your word for it? Perhaps you could provide some evidence to back that up.
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Do a little work. Use the Google. This isn't that hard.

Do a little work. Use the Google. This isn't that hard.
Once again you make a statement and then ask others to do the work. I am not as itellectually gifted as you so I won't bother trying and just assume you wrong.
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Once again you make a statement and then ask others to do the work. I am not as itellectually gifted as you so I won't bother trying and just assume you wrong.
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Don't sell yourself short. You're on S-B so you know how to get online, can enter some text and can read...more than enough skills for a little due diligence.

Don't sell yourself short. You're on S-B so you know how to get online, can enter some text and can read...more than enough skills for a little due diligence.

The closest I could find to Obama admitting he was wrong was him say "we erred" basically blaming others.
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The difference is simply that Obama's policy has an appreciation for the real root-cause drivers of the terror problem. A big piece of this is how disillusionment feeds the radicalization engine.



"So, we blame ourselves in order to remain blameless. Safer to blame our own societies and socioeconomic conditions than to blame the religious and cultural concepts with which terrorists poison their own minds."

http://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-attacks-terrorism-europe-muslims-brussels-attacks-airport-metro/

"So, we blame ourselves in order to remain blameless. Safer to blame our own societies and socioeconomic conditions than to blame the religious and cultural concepts with which terrorists poison their own minds."

http://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-attacks-terrorism-europe-muslims-brussels-attacks-airport-metro/


To cherry pick one issue out the the many reasons that extremist find followers is a cop out for both sides.. there is a religious component and societies and socioeconomic conditions in the development of terrorism

one of the Belgium guys went from from barkeeper to suicide bomber
There is a seeming disconnect between the ownership by Muslims - whose religion forbids the use of alcohol and tobacco - of a bar, where drugs were being dealt, http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-shooting-belgium-bar-idUSKCN0T52RH20151117

Its not easy to find One flea on a big hairy dog But when you do look harder you'll find others

To cherry pick one issue out the the many reasons that extremist find followers is a cop out for both sides..



who did that?

who did that?

As I said Both sides

http://www.xojane.com/issues/stephanie-cegielski-donald-trump-campaign-defector
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so what happened with this story? it should be in the news all over the place calling him out on it, has Trump even responded to this?

I am not a fan but this primary is not going well at all

so what happened with this story? it should be in the news all over the place calling him out on it, has Trump even responded to this?

I am not a fan but this primary is not going well at all
She didn't work for Trump she worked for a super pac.
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this MUNK debate was excellent last night if you get the chance to watch it

http://www.c-span.org/video/?407440-1/munk-debate-global-refugee-crisis

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso View Post

To cherry pick one issue out the the many reasons that extremist find followers is a cop out for both sides.


Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw View Post
who did that?



As I said Both sides



can you give an example?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso View Post

To cherry pick one issue out the the many reasons that extremist find followers is a cop out for both sides.


Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw View Post
who did that?




can you give an example?

Not sure Who are the who your referring to ?? to provide the example your looking for ... are you saying both sides of the argument what creates extremism and what makes a person a terrorist? dont cherry pick their position I see 3 camps

1st .. Just blame our own societies and socioeconomic conditions

2nd Just blame the religion and cultural concepts

3rd this one isn't talked about much but is closer to the reason we have terrorism

it's societies and socioeconomic conditions and religious and cultural concepts that drive extremism one wont stand with out the other

Not sure Who are the who your referring to ?? to provide the example your looking for ... are you saying both sides of the argument what creates extremism and what makes a person a terrorist? dont cherry pick their position I see 3 camps

1st .. Just blame our own societies and socioeconomic conditions

2nd Just blame the religion and cultural concepts

3rd this one isn't talked about much but is closer to the reason we have terrorism

it's societies and socioeconomic conditions and religious and cultural concepts that drive extremism one wont stand with out the other

Anyone who blames our society for terrorism, has been painting inside with the windows shut. Jihadists frequently attack other Muslims in their own countries, God forbid they believe in a slightly different branch of Islam. They hate everyone who isn't exactly like them.

"Just blame the religion and cultural concepts"

You're getting warmer.

"it's societies and socioeconomic conditions and religious and cultural concepts that drive extremism "

The Fort Hood shooter was a doctor, correct? Some kind of pshrink? He was an Army Major, I believe, he did well here. And he was radicalized. Bin Laden was educated. The couple in California who shot up his office? His co-workers had just thrown them a baby shower. They were embraced by our culture.

There's only one thing that connects every single one of them of them, and it's not socioeconomics. It's Islam, a religion based on the life of a bloodthirsty conqueror who would have made Atilla The Hun proud. We don't have the ability to make them all middle class with the wave of our hand.

I agree with most of what you're saying (I think you are too quick to dismiss the fault that lies with Islam, that's just my $0.02). Tough problem. The solution is very, very ugly and brutal.

Jim, you should visit a local mosque and talk to the imam about Mohammed.
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Jim, you should visit a local mosque and talk to the imam about Mohammed.
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Sure, I will get right on that. Just like you form your opinions of conservatives, based exclusively on what Karl Rove has to say. Right??

I studied religious history at UCONN, Spence, and I promise that my professors, and the guys that wrote the books, had no reason, at that time, to be biased. These were liberal professors.

This is about right...I could cite articles all day long. But since it goes against The Narrative, it must be dismissed at all costs, correct?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Muhammad#Treatment_of_enemies

He was also a slave owner and slave trader. Just like Jesus...

My God you are chugging the Kool Aid so far in 2016.

Ever going to get around to answering my question about the bowl of gummy bears? One last try...I give your kids a bowl of 100 gummy bears. I tell you that 1 is poisoned and will kill anyone who eats it. Ho wmany do you let your kids eat, before you take the bowl away? If the answer is "none", and of course it is...how is that different from the attitude expresed by those who are concerned that 1% - 2% of Muslims support jihadists?

Do you ever get embarassed that I give you direct answers to everything you ask, and you routinely dodge the tough questions I ask you?

Anyway, go ahead, and tell us why Mohammed had more in common with Jesus Christ than with Atilla The Hun...

Not sure Who are the who your referring to ?? to provide the example your looking for ... are you saying both sides of the argument what creates extremism and what makes a person a terrorist? dont cherry pick their position I see 3 camps



no one "cherry picked" anything.....

I asked you to name someone who did "cherry pick" because you made the very broad statement "To cherry pick one issue out the the many reasons that extremist find followers is a cop out for both sides.."

some would call that a straw man argument.....

I think it's widely acknowledged that there are many reasons for radicalization...there are also specific components that are fueling the current problem particularly in Europe and as the author in Politico mentions, some seem to be unable to grasp the fact that radicalization occurs despite their every attempt to remove the "socioeconomic" causes and or improve them through their social welfare structure all of the necessities that ought largely thwart radicalization...I mean...if you provide someone with everything...why on earth would they want to blow you up? right?....many of the radicalized have been highly educated and hardly from impoverished socioeconomic backgrounds....


"So, we blame ourselves in order to remain blameless. Safer to blame our own societies and socioeconomic conditions than to blame the religious and cultural concepts with which terrorists poison their own minds.

According to reports, the unemployment figure in Brussels’ infamous Molenbeek neighborhood — now referred to as the jihadi hothouse of Europe — is 30 percent. This is a relatively high figure in Western Europe, but not unusual in southern European countries or the Arab world. There is poverty in Molenbeek, but that poverty is relative. There is no starvation, no homelessness, no lack of medical infrastructure, no lack of schools.

Compared to average living standards in Morocco or Egypt, the average living standard in Molenbeek is comfortably middle-class. Like in any other Western European country, many Belgian institutions and organizations offer support when families need housing, food, education, and health care. Opportunities for success, and to study and become a respected member in society, are countless compared to those that exist in many immigrants’ countries of origin. Still, there is deep resentment among the younger generations of immigrant Moroccan families."


3rd this one isn't talked about much but is closer to the reason we have terrorism

it's societies and socioeconomic conditions and religious and cultural concepts that drive extremism one wont stand with out the other


I think it's been very well demonstrated that extremism will/can exist and stand as a result of religious and cultural concepts despite socioeconomic and societal conditions....we've seen countless examples...Europe is attempting to prove this right now;)

"I asked you to name someone " so I take it you thoughtI was speaking about specific an SOL member. To repeat I said Both sides of the argument cherry pick the issue not sure how thats a straw man argument but ok

I think it's been very well demonstrated that extremism will/can exist and stand as a result of religious and cultural concepts despite socioeconomic and societal conditions....we've seen countless examples...Europe is attempting to prove this right now

^^^ Now your cherry picking the argument and assuming all socioeconomic and societal conditions. are equal and have no impact its just religious and cultural that are the cause of the problem

I clearly fall into camp #3

it's societies and socioeconomic conditions and religious and cultural concepts that drive extremism one wont stand with out the other

I cant say what % Religious VS societies and socioeconomic which causes what but the out come isn't debatable

Now your cherry picking the argument and assuming all socioeconomic and societal conditions. are equal and have no impact its just religious and cultural that are the cause of the problem



that's not accurate

"I asked you to name someone " so I take it you thoughtI was speaking about specific an SOL member. To repeat I said Both sides of the argument cherry pick the issue not sure how thats a straw man argument but ok

I think it's been very well demonstrated that extremism will/can exist and stand as a result of religious and cultural concepts despite socioeconomic and societal conditions....we've seen countless examples...Europe is attempting to prove this right now

^^^ Now your cherry picking the argument and assuming all socioeconomic and societal conditions. are equal and have no impact its just religious and cultural that are the cause of the problem

I clearly fall into camp #3

it's societies and socioeconomic conditions and religious and cultural concepts that drive extremism one wont stand with out the other

I cant say what % Religious VS societies and socioeconomic which causes what but the out come isn't debatable

WDMSO, there are many drivers of radicalization, as you astutely said.

"it's societies and socioeconomic conditions and religious and cultural concepts that drive extremism one wont stand with out the other"

Then please explain the guy who shot up his office in California recently, or the Fort Hood shooter? These were not desperate, poor people who had any conceivable reason to hate the west. These were people who were doing well in the west.

There is one common thread that connects all of them, and it's not ignorance, poverty, hopelessness, desperation, or living in a third world craphole (while some terrorists share these things, certainly not all of them do). Furthermore, there are huge numbers of desperate, poor, hopeless Christians out there (Africa, central America). And they aren't slaughtering innocent human beings because they think Jesus wants them to.

The overwhelming majority of people killed by terrorists in the last 15 years, have been killed by Islamic terrorists. Not Christian terrorists, not Jewish terrorists, not Mormon terrorists, not Hindu terrorists, not Amish terrorists, not Buddhist terrorists Yet all these religions have poor followers, living in the most miserable places on Earth (maybe not the Amish, but you get my point). Why is that? When one religion, and only one, stands out as inspiring its faithful to act this way, there's got to be a connection.

WDMSO, there are many drivers of radicalization, as you astutely said.

"it's societies and socioeconomic conditions and religious and cultural concepts that drive extremism one wont stand with out the other"

Then please explain the guy who shot up his office in California recently, or the Fort Hood shooter? These were not desperate, poor people who had any conceivable reason to hate the west. These were people who were doing well in the west.

There is one common thread that connects all of them, and it's not ignorance, poverty, hopelessness, desperation, or living in a third world craphole (while some terrorists share these things, certainly not all of them do). Furthermore, there are huge numbers of desperate, poor, hopeless Christians out there (Africa, central America). And they aren't slaughtering innocent human beings because they think Jesus wants them to.

The overwhelming majority of people killed by terrorists in the last 15 years, have been killed by Islamic terrorists. Not Christian terrorists, not Jewish terrorists, not Mormon terrorists, not Hindu terrorists, not Amish terrorists, not Buddhist terrorists Yet all these religions have poor followers, living in the most miserable places on Earth (maybe not the Amish, but you get my point). Why is that? When one religion, and only one, stands out as inspiring its faithful to act this way, there's got to be a connection.

Again Jim who shot up his office in California recently, or the Fort Hood shooter? theses are exceptions to the rule Christian jews huindu buddhist I am sure I can find the same exceptions and find terrorist act's for each but if I did its just become an endless circular argument..

There is no doubt there Islamic Terrorist I just dont buy into the physical threat they pose to the west (USA).. but the psychological effect is off the chart

try to find robert baer cult of the suicide bomber DVD.. or you tube I have it some place i can burn you a copy .. he shows the evolution of the suicide bomber from the Iraq Iran war to lebanon

Again Jim who shot up his office in California recently, or the Fort Hood shooter? theses are exceptions to the rule Christian jews huindu buddhist I am sure I can find the same exceptions and find terrorist act's for each



oh boy.....

Again Jim who shot up his office in California recently, or the Fort Hood shooter? theses are exceptions to the rule Christian jews huindu buddhist I am sure I can find the same exceptions and find terrorist act's for each but if I did its just become an endless circular argument..

There is no doubt there Islamic Terrorist I just dont buy into the physical threat they pose to the west (USA).. but the psychological effect is off the chart

try to find robert baer cult of the suicide bomber DVD.. or you tube I have it some place i can burn you a copy .. he shows the evolution of the suicide bomber from the Iraq Iran war to lebanon

"Again Jim who shot up his office in California recently, or the Fort Hood shooter?"

Ummm...radical Muslims

" theses are exceptions to the rule Christian jews huindu buddhist I am sure I can find the same exceptions"

You are sure all religions share a small number of homocidal maniacs? Then please tell us, what % of those killed by religiuous extremists in the past 20 years, were killed by Islamic extremists? And what % were slaughtered by Buddhist extremists? You seem like a sharp guy, but you aren't entitled to your own facts. You don't think there is anything about Islam that uniquely connects it to violence? There's no empirical evidence to suggest that Islamic fanatics are more dangerous than Buddhist fanatics? Come on...

"I just dont buy into the physical threat they pose to the west (USA)..

I hope you're right. But I'm not sure I agree. But of course, I hope you are correct.

Ya Islam is a peaceful religion, just a few wingnuts on the outskirts right? I don't think so, it's more than that

https://israelinprophecy.wordpress.com/islam-chariots-of-the-new-world-order/

go ahead and poo poo it as conspiracy all you want

"In Summary

It becomes clear as we look into the origins of Islam, particularly its split between the Sunni and Shia sects, that much of the tactics of todays terrorist derive from an aberrant form of Islamic religion. Radicalized Islam’s ideology was inherited through heretical elements, be they Kharijite or Hashshashin. The modern day fedayeen tactics deployed during the initial Muslim assault on Israel, in the Iranian Islamic Revolution, during the intafada’s in Israel, and then used during the opening days of the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, are merely those tactics of the ancient fundamentalist heretics of Islam.

The leaders of radical Islam still promote a belief in a special divine mission, entice young men with visions of 72 virgins in some erotic paradice. They engage in kidnap, ransom, arson, theft, the slave trade, drug traffiking, political assassination, and mass murder all in the name of Allah and Islam. Exalted leaders of radical Islam still worship the Imam’s and seek to fulfill their every word. Men such as Osama bin Laden inspire Muslim youth to do horrendous acts. Just as the devotee at Alamut flung himself off the mountain at the word of Sabbah, so too do todays radical Imams and clerics use those same occult powers that Sabbah employed to terrorize the world in order to advance their agenda.

These terrorist tell us that in the end they will win because they love death and we love life. How tragic. The God of Israel says that those who hate Him, love death. I would say, most average human beings love life over death, and in the end will choose HaShem over Allah."

Ya Islam is a peaceful religion, just a few wingnuts on the outskirts right? I don't think so, it's more than that."

Correct.

It's based on Mohammed. Who, despite what Spence inexplicably denies, was a conquerer, a murderer, and a slave trader.

The word itself, Islam, means submit or surrender.

This isn't all that complicated.