The feds gave the governor 3 working days to repeal their bathroom law. Once again, it appears that the Obama administration needs to take high school civics, because the governor cannot unilaterally repeal a duly constituted law. The legislature needs to do that before he signs it.

3 days is also ridiculous. The governor asked for an extension. The feds agreed to give him a one week extension, ONLY IF the governor would acknowledge that his law was discriminatory. That's how this administration behaves...they will consider your rights, as long as you go on TV and admit they you were a bigot for daring to disagree with them.

As I understand it, the Civil Rights Act gives the feds the authority to prevent discrimination "based on sex". Well, for 235 years in this country, we always presumed that sex was determined by whether or not you were born with a wee-wee. The state of NC wants to have public bathrooms by sex. Everyone of one sex uses one restroom, everyone of the other sex uses the other restroom. We now live in an age, where that thought is at best controversial, at worst it's hatemongering.

You can choose what clothes to wear. You can choose how to wear your hair. You can choose whom to be romantically involved with. You cannot choose your sex, it's in the DNA you were born with.

I cannot believe we are even having this national conversation, and I honestly don't know what unites us as a country anymore.

And for the Obama administration to withhold an extension unless the governor went on TV and allowed them to throw eggs at his face...well, Obama's pettiness and vindictiveness never ceases to amaze. A world class azzhole.

Seems a clear violation of the 10th Ammendment, as this is clearly a State issue. Where is Congress on this issue? or is this an example of the executive branch using it's influence and then using a court decision to turn executive action into law?
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Congress (even when controlled by the Dems) has been petitioned to modify the Civil Rights Act, to include transgenders as a protected class. Congress, even when controlled by the Dems, chose not to do so.

Obama has never been discouraged by silly little annoying obstacles such as the Constitution, and when the wheels of democracy aren't moving fast enough, he is willing to give totalitarianism a try.

How can anyone not be outraged by the offer of an extension, with the condition that the governor publicly acknowledge being a bigot? Where does it say that conservatives have to publicly humiliate themselves, in order to have the right to petition for reddress of grievences?

AND HOW IS IT SEXUAL DISCRIMINATION to say that if your sex is 'male', you use the men's room?

My 9 year old chooses to identify as a bird. Therefore, I want the ACLU to sue my town's board of education, because he is not being accommodated. I want him to sit at a nest instead of a desk, and I want earthworms added to the cefeteria menu.

See how stupid that sounds? We cannot all bend over backwards and turn our moral compass (what's left of it) upside down, in order to accommodate every single conceiveable human impulse.

See how stupid that sounds? We cannot all bend over backwards and turn our moral compass (what's left of it) upside down, in order to accommodate every single conceiveable human impulse.

Well that makes you a close minded, insensitive racist pig. You should cater your life around the .0000001% of society who are gender confused.

a gay, a tranny and a baker go into a bar.... Jim was glued to the window to see what happened next.
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If I was governor of NC, I would pen this letter to AG Loretta Lynch..

Ms Lynch, I received your leter demanding that I comply with your agenda or face the forfeiture of federal funding.

I have a beter idea - go &*#! yourself. We would rather drive on bumpy roads and maintain our grip on reality and decency, than embrace insanity and climb in bed with crazy tyrants like you. Unlike the liberal areas of the country, people and businesses are flocking to NC, and our economy is growing like crazy, and we cannot build houses fast enough for the tax refugees seeking asylum here. So it appears we don't need you nearly enough to accept these strong arm tactics.

Jim, is your wife a bird?
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Jim, is your wife a bird?
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Nope. Now can you answer a question?

Spence, is someone born with a donger and male DNA, who wears a wig and a dress, a woman? Yes or no. The answer is hell, no.

Spence, how do you like Obama telling the NC Governor, that he can only get an extension if he agrees to walk around with a dunce cap? Because if it's OK for Obama to do that, than it's OK for Trump (pretend he gets elected) to do it, too. I suspect you'd have HUGE issues (or should I say yuuge issues) with Trump employing this tactic against liberals who act stupidly.

The civil rights act says the feds can prevent discrimination on the basis of sex. No sane person can argue that the NC law (which says all men use one bathroom, all women use the other) discriminates against anyone based on their sex.

If I 'choose to identify' as someone who gets all his income from capital gains, doe sthat mean Obama's IRS will let me pay the (lower) capital gains tax rate on my income?

You don't choose your sex. You can disguise it, and you should have the right to do so, if it makes you feel good. But you cannot change the sex you were born with, and that is irrefutable fact. It's in your DNA, and no amount of makeup or surgical mutilation can ever make that wrong.

And the comparisons to Jim Crow laws are beyond ridiculous. If I have a wee-wee, telling me that I must use a mens room (in public only), is morally equivalent to turning firehouses and German Shephards on huge numbers of people? Yeah that makes a ton of sense.

I'm still trying to figure out...when Bruce Jenner says she's not gay...does that mean his Johnson is attracted to women and not men or her boobs are attracted to men and not women?

I'm still trying to figure out...when Bruce Jenner says she's not gay...does that mean his Johnson is attracted to women and not men or her boobs are attracted to men and not women?

They problem here is you sit and worry about these people.

Worry about yourself.
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They problem here is you sit and worry about these people.

Worry about yourself.
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I'm not worrying...just curious...if I don't figure these things out and come to the proper conclusions, I'll be branded all sorts of horrible things....:bl:

More manufactured Outrage who cares who is in the stall next to you.. so Men are you Afraid of a Female transgender person who looks like a guy using the stall or do we think their going to whip their a shewee at the urinal?? or is just about men dressed as women in a women's rest room... some college's have uni sex bathrooms

According to a study by the University of Massachusetts, there are over 150 college campuses across the US that are creating gender-neutral restrooms.

Not so long ago we also had white and Black bathrooms you can change with the times or be stuck in the past the choice is an individual one .. and neither one bothers me one bit

More manufactured Outrage who cares who is in the stall next to you.. so Men are you Afraid of a Female transgender person who looks like a guy using the stall or do we think their going to whip their a shewee at the urinal?? or is just about men dressed as women in a women's rest room... some college's have uni sex bathrooms

According to a study by the University of Massachusetts, there are over 150 college campuses across the US that are creating gender-neutral restrooms.

Not so long ago we also had white and Black bathrooms you can change with the times or be stuck in the past the choice is an individual one .. and neither one bothers me one bit

I am not afraid for my safety. But just because I am unafraid, even if I am comfortable with something, doesn't mean that I can force that comfort on everyone else.

I don't want anyone with the male anatomy in the bathroom with my wife. If I had daughters, I would feel much stronger.

"Not so long ago we also had white and Black bathrooms "

The Obama administration keeps using the comparison to Jim Crow laws, and it's absurd. Gender anatomy isn't the same as skin color, not even close, and it's not a coincidence that we didn't argue about this for 230 years until this particular jerk got elected POTUS. And comparing this to actual, brutal discrimination, is very dismissive to those who experienced it.

Allowing people of different races (same gender) to use the same bathroom, does not invite perversion or voyeurism.

If you had a 9 year-old daughter, you wouldn't care if I put on a wig and followed her into the girls' room? I can't fathom that, I just can't. And I don't think that makes me Archie Bunker for feeling that way.

And regardless of how either of us feels, the Civil Rights Act makes it very clear when the feds can step in to address perceived discrimination. As that law is written, how one chooses to present oneself, isn't on that list. Which means, it's a state issue. End of story. Unless you have a POTUS who thinks he gets to ignore the Constitution when it suits him.

Because taking a dump makes trannies horny we should all run in fear.
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Because taking a dump makes trannies horny we should all run in fear.
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Eben...I'm picturing you dressed as a woman right now....:rotf2:

Jim, is your wife a bird?
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No, she is not a bird. Even if she dresses in feathers and puts on a beak, and says she is a bird, she is not a bird.

But she is just as close to being a bird, as I am to being a woman, if I put on a dress and a wig, and declare that I am a woman.

In that scenario, she and I would be equally wrong.

Because taking a dump makes trannies horny we should all run in fear.
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Nebe, let's pretend I assume true transgenders aren't a threat (I don't assume that, but pretend I do). But there have been cases of women being assaulted (and having their privacy violated) by men, in public restrooms. What Obama wants to do, makes that a lot easier.

You really don't get the other side, huh? It's not that hard. It's what the entire country believed for th efirst 230 years of our existence. Not that long ago, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I'm about 1000000% sure that a demented heterosexual male is going to assault someone in a bathroom before a tranny would.
Just like the same type of male is going to kill someone vs a terrorist attack (in relation to gun control debate)
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I'm about 1000000% sure that a demented heterosexual male is going to assault someone in a bathroom before a tranny would.
Just like the same type of male is going to kill someone vs a terrorist attack (in relation to gun control debate)
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Well since we're going to allow anybody into anyone's bathroom, then I guess it's going to be a more common occurrence . Also, anything over 100% is moot 😊
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When I go to take a piss, I don't even make eye contact with people. You do your business and leave.
The more I learn about life the more I learn how scared some are to be alive and interact with people unlike them. I'm actually posting this from Jamaica right now and have had to interact with guys that I at first we're going to rob me and ended up being the most beautiful caring people. They are just different.
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I'm about 1000000% sure that a demented heterosexual male is going to assault someone in a bathroom before a tranny would.
Just like the same type of male is going to kill someone vs a terrorist attack (in relation to gun control debate)
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"I'm about 1000000% sure that a demented heterosexual male is going to assault someone in a bathroom before a tranny would"

Agreed! But you are missing the point. These laws that allow any man to use the ladies room, make it easier for the demented heterosexual man to claim he's a tranny, to get access to the ladies room. If a man goes into the ladies room, there is no way to tell if it's a tranny, or just a perveted hetero. The solution which causes the fewest number of people to be inconvenienced, is to leave it the way it's been for 230 years. Please tell me where I am wrong.

When I go to take a piss, I don't even make eye contact with people. You do your business and leave.
The more I learn about life the more I learn how scared some are to be alive and interact with people unlike them. I'm actually posting this from Jamaica right now and have had to interact with guys that I at first we're going to rob me and ended up being the most beautiful caring people. They are just different.
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Good God. I am willing to interact with anyone, in the appropriate setting. A public restroom has a specific function, and people who go in there, especially women, deserve to feel private and secure. I can't believe that is lost on you.

When I go to take a piss, I don't even make eye contact with people. You do your business and leave.
The more I learn about life the more I learn how scared some are to be alive and interact with people unlike them. I'm actually posting this from Jamaica right now and have had to interact with guys that I at first we're going to rob me and ended up being the most beautiful caring people. They are just different.
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how's the weed?

More manufactured Outrage

Are you referring to the manufactured "outrage" of transgenders because they are not allowed in bathrooms designated for people who have different genitalia then they do?

who cares who is in the stall next to you.. so Men are you Afraid of a Female transgender person who looks like a guy using the stall or do we think their going to whip their a shewee at the urinal?? or is just about men dressed as women in a women's rest room... some college's have uni sex bathrooms

According to a study by the University of Massachusetts, there are over 150 college campuses across the US that are creating gender-neutral restrooms.

Most of the unisex bathrooms currently have only one stall with a door that locks from the inside. But if all bathrooms must become unisex, regardless of how many stalls, and anyone is free to enter, how does that mollify the rage of transgenders who want to use bathrooms strictly designated for those who have the genitalia they wish they had but don't?

Not so long ago we also had white and Black bathrooms you can change with the times or be stuck in the past the choice is an individual one .. and neither one bothers me one bit

Ah, but there's the rub. When government mandates how it must be, it is no longer a matter of individual choice. Does that bother you a little bit?

The solution which causes the fewest number of people to be inconvenienced, is to leave it the way it's been for 230 years. Please tell me where I am wrong.


I agree, and you now see there was no reason they passed a law to begin with so you agree with that part. Why call attention to this issue at all, if NC doesn't wish to follow the Blue states agenda as far as those states accommodating a small sector of society, then don't, I see no reason they had to pass some counter law so to speak.
Jim your analogies are ridiculous. I guess your uptight about the strong arm crap the POTUS is trying to pull like he has for the last 7 years. He has had that MO for many things so it shouldn't surprise you.

how's the weed?

I hear it's disappointing. I've just been enjoying red stripes and jerked pork 😂😂😂
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I hear it's disappointing. I've just been enjoying red stripes and jerked pork ������
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love Red Stripe...

I know I'm supposed to be "worrying about myself"...but this is bathrooms and showers I believe and many other things by extension I imagine...can a woman who has decided he's trapped in a female body use the Men's locker room and shower at the YMCA....and are the men in the shower going to be chastised for not being fully supportive or slightly surprised when a man in a woman's body strolls into the shower with them?...how about the boy's locker room..or the girl's...I think there have been examples of this?....can people who have one anatomy decide to compete in a sport based on their gender identity rather than their physical gender....can a male identifying as a female compete in and get a scholarship as a female athlete if he identifies as a her? I'm all for accommodating people but it's just amazing that often those that want accommodation(in many things) and don't want their sensibilities challenged....are more than willing to challenge the sensibilities of others and even attack them for not being fully accommodating

this is exactly where all of this is going...i just want to know the rules :)


btw... unisex showers and bathrooms are a great idea for college campuses where the "culture of rape" apparently exists and you can be charged with all sorts of crimes for looking at someone the wrong way or saying the wrong thing...shouldn't be a problem

I agree, and you now see there was no reason they passed a law to begin with so you agree with that part. Why call attention to this issue at all, if NC doesn't wish to follow the Blue states agenda as far as those states accommodating a small sector of society, then don't, I see no reason they had to pass some counter law so to speak.
Jim your analogies are ridiculous. I guess your uptight about the strong arm crap the POTUS is trying to pull like he has for the last 7 years. He has had that MO for many things so it shouldn't surprise you.

"there was no reason they passed a law to begin with so you agree with that part. Why call attention to this issue at all"

You don't know the basic facts here. The city of Charlotte, NC passed a city law saying that any man can use the ladies room if he identifies that way. The state passed their law, to trump the city law. So yes, there absolutely was a need for the state to pass its law, because the city of Charlotte is apparently being run by liberal lunatics, who care more about appearing progressive than they care about public safety and normalcy.



"Jim your analogies are ridiculous"

Lob an insult without trying to support it. Yawn.

love Red Stripe...

m?...how about the boy's locker room..or the girl's...I think there have been examples of this?....can people who have one anatomy decide to compete in a sport based on their gender identity rather than their physical gender....can a male identifying as a female compete in and get a scholarship as a female athlete if he identifies as a her? I'm all for accommodating people but it's just amazing that often those that want accommodation(in many things) and don't want their sensibilities challenged....are more than willing to challenge the sensibilities of others and even attack them for not being fully accommodating

this is exactly where all of this is going...i just want to know the rules :)


btw... unisex showers and bathrooms are a great idea for college campuses where the "culture of rape" apparently exists and you can be charged with all sorts of crimes for looking at someone the wrong way or saying the wrong thing...shouldn't be a problem

"how about the boy's locker room..or the girl's...I think there have been examples of this?...."

Yes, in IL (I believe) a boy decided he was a girl, the schoool let him play girl's sports and use the girls locker room when no one else was in there. Naturally, that wasn't good enough for the fanatics, who sued to give the boy full access to the girls locker room any time he wanted, and they won in court. So now girls have to shower with boys. Isn't that swell?

"those that want accommodation(in many things) and don't want their sensibilities challenged....are more than willing to challenge the sensibilities of others and even attack them for not being fully accommodating "

As we all know, that's the glaring hypocrisy of liberalism. Diversity of everything, except ideas...

You do know that they already have transgender bathrooms all over the country, RIGHT???


They're called PORT-A-POTTIES

Anyone can use them, regardless of whether your plumbing is indoors or out.

I thought that transgender was that a person was born one sex but relates more strongly with the other. Once they get to the point of dressing like that opposite sex they cross over to transsexual, because they are DRESSING the part.

Jenny Bruce hasn't had a "lop-it-off-of-me" yet, so HE's still just the "dude looks like a lady".

I have been to various clubs where they had "unisex" bathrooms.
No freak shows, no pervs, just club goers that had to use the john.

Now that the political whack-jobs have sunk their teeth into this asinine cause, it'll be driving down out throats until THEY get their way!

No, she is not a bird. Even if she dresses in feathers and puts on a beak, and says she is a bird, she is not a bird.

But she is just as close to being a bird, as I am to being a woman, if I put on a dress and a wig, and declare that I am a woman.
Ok this is freakishly detailed.
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Agreed! But you are missing the point. These laws that allow any man to use the ladies room, make it easier for the demented heterosexual man to claim he's a tranny, to get access to the ladies room. If a man goes into the ladies room, there is no way to tell if it's a tranny, or just a perveted hetero. The solution which causes the fewest number of people to be inconvenienced, is to leave it the way it's been for 230 years. Please tell me where I am wrong.
Can you cite one example of this ever happening?
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Can you cite one example of this ever happening?
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http://www.dailywire.com/news/5190/5-times-transgender-men-abused-women-and-children-amanda-prestigiacomo

Hell, it actually sounds like another fetish is a possibility. I would listen to hot babes make a doody.
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Ok this is freakishly detailed.
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Detailed yes. Wrong, no.

Can you cite one example of this ever happening?
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You're being really, really dense. You know how you like to tell others o google something for 30 seconds? Take your own advice. Look it up. Are you seriously going to suggest that you don't concede that perverts and voyeurs have ever plied their craft in a public restroom?

You're being really, really dense. You know how you like to tell others o google something for 30 seconds? Take your own advice. Look it up. Are you seriously going to suggest that you don't concede that perverts and voyeurs have ever plied their craft in a public restroom?
Voyeurs and perverts are a different argument than a man or woman who has had their gender changed.
:rtfm:
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Voyeurs and perverts are a different argument than a man or woman who has had their gender changed.
:rtfm:
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That's not the meaning of transgender but don't let that stop you .
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http://www.dailywire.com/news/5190/5-times-transgender-men-abused-women-and-children-amanda-prestigiacomo

Dailywire? Im sure you can come with a less biased source. Shapiro is a pundit...
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Dailywire? Im sure you can come with a less biased source. Shapiro is a pundit...
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Shapiro is brilliant. All sources are biased. You are biased. You asked if there was one example. The article pointed out five. What has bias to do with pointing out examples. Either they are examples or they are not. Bias and lying are not the same thing. Are you saying the examples are lies? Are you saying that Shapiro made it up?

Voyeurs and perverts are a different argument than a man or woman who has had their gender changed.
:rtfm:
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I explained this to you already. Yes, voyeurs and perverts are a different risk than true transgenders. But PLEASE TELL US, if you open the restrooms to trannys, how do you prevent perverts from going in there as well? How can you fail to see, that these permissive laws make it significantly easier for the perverts to claim to be trannys, to gain access to the ladies rom? Does everyone have to pass a polygraph exam before entering?

"a man or woman who has had their gender changed. "

No such thing. You can change your appearance. Your sex is determined by your DNA. That doesn't change, ever. There is no such thing as changing your sex.

Dailywire? Im sure you can come with a less biased source. Shapiro is a pundit...
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I just googled "woman attacked in public restroom". Try it. And get back to me.

"Jim your analogies are ridiculous"

Lob an insult without trying to support it. Yawn.

Insult? sounds like you are a little thin skinned.
It wasn't an insult, just not a worthy comparison


OK, so lawmakers are not doing a good job of trying to pass a law to keep a small group of citizens from being discriminated against and you and others are upset about that. That is my observation. They have a right to be treated fairly and not be discriminated just as many in history who are different from you whether it be skin color, religion or what country they are from. The world is changing, you can either accept things or resist. It sounds like you only have a problem with 2 things, the president pulling his executive order/action tough guy thing which he should be called out on I agree, and the fact that unscrupulous people other than true transgenders will take advantage of these laws and pretend to be male to female just to get into woman's rooms to do possible harmful things. Well if they can write the law to keep those creeps out of it, then is it acceptable? Or are you closed minded on the subject?

I can't believe this has gotten this much press.... ... it's pretty simple..if you are sporting an outboard motor... your limited to the outboard dealer...if you sport an inboard motor you go to the inboard dealer... if you don't like your outboard motor.. remove it and go inboard ( and if you cant afford the surgery ..oh -well....use the outboard facilities until you are legit )...problem solved.. ...otherwise.. USE THE UNISEX restroom ( or porta potti).. and stop wasting hard earned tax payer money on this foolishness... our government and president have a lot more important things to worry about beside where people are going to releave themselves....

Insult? sounds like you are a little thin skinned.
It wasn't an insult, just not a worthy comparison


OK, so lawmakers are not doing a good job of trying to pass a law to keep a small group of citizens from being discriminated against and you and others are upset about that. That is my observation. They have a right to be treated fairly and not be discriminated just as many in history who are different from you whether it be skin color, religion or what country they are from. The world is changing, you can either accept things or resist. It sounds like you only have a problem with 2 things, the president pulling his executive order/action tough guy thing which he should be called out on I agree, and the fact that unscrupulous people other than true transgenders will take advantage of these laws and pretend to be male to female just to get into woman's rooms to do possible harmful things. Well if they can write the law to keep those creeps out of it, then is it acceptable? Or are you closed minded on the subject?

"trying to pass a law to keep a small group of citizens from being discriminated against "

How is it discriminating, when previous laws (and 230 years of common sense) suggested that all men (based on how you were born) use the mens room, all women (based on how you were born) use the womens room?

Slipknot, there are times when I'd feel more comfortable, and less threatened, in the ladies room too. That doesn't mean I get to go in there.

How about the large numbers of women who don't want to share their restroom with people who don't have their anatomy? How come their desire for privacy is always expendable?

"They have a right to be treated fairly"

If you were born with a wee-wee, use th emens room...how, exavctly, is that unfair, if it applies equally to all men? No one is singling these trannys out. But the fact is, a man that identifies as a woman, is a man. You can never, ever make that wrong.

"whether it be skin color"

My god, do you people ever not play that card when you are wrong and hopeless? The fpurpose for which a restroom is built, has nothing to do with skin color. It has much to do with anatomy.

"The world is changing"

I'll say. You can keep the change. Change isn't nevcessarily improvement.

I am getting very, very close to supporting the notion of dividing the country. I see very little that unites us as Americans anymore.

"if they can write the law to keep those creeps out of it, then is it acceptable?"

It's more acceptable. But how in God's name do you write a law that says that men can go into a ladies room, but only if they are a tranny. If Willie Horton goes in there and says "I am a tranny", how the hell can you ever prove that he's lying.

Here's 2 questions for you (since I attempted to answer all of yours). First, do you understand that a man that identifies as a woman, is a man? Second, what's so wrong with the system we have been using for 200+ years? Have trannys been getting attacked in rest rooms, and no one told me?

In a perfect world, I guess, we'd have single stall bathrooms. But we can't afford that, so it's not worth talking about. Either a tiny number of trannys will be made uncomfortable, or a large number of non-trannys will be incomfortable (in NC, I promise you that the citizens overwhelmingly wanted the state law).

If I put on a wig and start singing show tunes, that doesn't change my gender. I don't see what good it does, to pretend otherwise. I want trannys to be happy, safe, and secure, I genuinely do. But often times, the minority has to assimmilate a bit. It can't always be th emajority that's forced to surrender their expectations of privacy and comfort.

Geez. I wish I died on the last day of the eisenhower adminidstration, that's when I should have been here.

OK, so lawmakers are not doing a good job of trying to pass a law to keep a small group of citizens from being discriminated against and you and others are upset about that. That is my observation. They have a right to be treated fairly and not be discriminated just as many in history who are different from you whether it be skin color, religion or what country they are from.

It is, no doubt, difficult to do a good job of passing an unnecessary law. I don't understand what harmful or unfair discrimination there is in designating bathrooms as women or men. What is harmful or unfair in a man who feels like a woman using a bathroom designated men? All men, whether they are black, yellow, red, white, Russian, Ukrainian, British, American, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Buddhists, homosexual, transgender, heterosexual, can use a bathroom designated men. Where is the harm or discrimination in that?

The world is changing, you can either accept things or resist.

So far the physical differences between men and women have not, as far as I know, changed. We can either accept that or resist?

I don't know Jim

maybe they can use the family bathroom

In Europe don't they just have one unisex bathroom?

I have seen many times at a football game or something when women come in the men's room because their lines are too long to get in, there doesn't seem to be a problem with that.

Yes there are many things more important to concentrate on

you need to use a public restroom, use it. It does not bother me at all

I think we need to clear the slate and get rid of everyone in the government and start over:whackin::chatter

In Europe don't they just have one unisex bathroom?



that's a lotta people and just one bathroom...imagine the lines for that

in San Francisco don't they just use the sidewalk?

:claps::bl: lol

:claps::bl: lol

hey...i wouldn't put anything past Europe...:bl:

I explained this to you already. Yes, voyeurs and perverts are a different risk than true transgenders. But PLEASE TELL US, if you open the restrooms to trannys, how do you prevent perverts from going in there as well? How can you fail to see, that these permissive laws make it significantly easier for the perverts to claim to be trannys, to gain access to the ladies rom? Does everyone have to pass a polygraph exam before entering?
No, they really don't make much of a difference at all. The proof is in the pudding...Colorado, Connecticut, Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, Mass, Minnesota, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Rhode Island and Vermont have all had anti-discrimination bathroom laws for years without any issues.

No such thing. You can change your appearance. Your sex is determined by your DNA. That doesn't change, ever. There is no such thing as changing your sex.
The primary thing your DNA does is trigger development of certain body parts in the womb. Your "sex" as far as your brain is concerned and other body development is primarily hormonal. This absolutely can be tinkered with.

I'd note as well that while rare some people are born with reversed sex chromosomes or irregular pairs.

This is why your bird fetish is so strange. You can't change your hormones and become a bird, nor was the ever a chance you were going to develop as a bird.

One sick puppy.

Shapiro is brilliant. All sources are biased. You are biased. You asked if there was one example. The article pointed out five. What has bias to do with pointing out examples. Either they are examples or they are not. Bias and lying are not the same thing. Are you saying the examples are lies? Are you saying that Shapiro made it up?

For such a "brilliant" guy the Shapiro piece is surprisingly weak. Most of the examples aren't people claiming to be transgender, the dude in Toronto is clearly crazy and the Seattle example was a publicity stunt.

No, they really don't make much of a difference at all. The proof is in the pudding...Colorado, Connecticut, Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, Mass, Minnesota, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Rhode Island and Vermont have all had anti-discrimination bathroom laws for years without any issues.


The primary thing your DNA does is trigger development of certain body parts in the womb. Your "sex" as far as your brain is concerned and other body development is primarily hormonal. This absolutely can be tinkered with.

I'd note as well that while rare some people are born with reversed sex chromosomes or irregular pairs.

This is why your bird fetish is so strange. You can't change your hormones and become a bird, nor was the ever a chance you were going to develop as a bird.

One sick puppy.

"The proof is in the pudding"

Says the guy who claims that there are zero reported incodents of anything bad ever happening to a woman in a restroom.

Spence, if I had a crystal ball, and could see that no woman would ever be assualted, I would still oppose this, because it's weird. It's just weird. Just because something turns tradiitonal family values on its head, doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing.

Proof is in the pudding? Since when do libs subscribe to that theory? How long of a list would you like, of liberal ideas that have proven to be a disaster, yet liberals refuse to acknowledge the proof that's in the pudding? Pensions to public labor unions, assault weapons bans, fanatical gun control laws, affirmative action, sexual permissiveness...mountains of evidence to show how harmful these policies have been, yet your side could care less about that parictular brand of pudding.


"You can't change your hormones and become a bird"

Nor can you change your sex. It's not possible. I can't become a female any more than I can become a bird. I can look more like a female than I can look like a bird...but biologically, I cannot make myself either, I can just pretend. And if it makes me happy, and I don't bother anyone else, I should have that right.

Your sex, biologically, is not detremined by your hormones, but by your chromosomes, which don't get changed. Sorry.

"One sick puppy"

i come up with an anology that highlights the stupidity of your position here. To refute that, you (1) falsely claim that sex is based on hormones (instead of chromosomes) and can thus be changed, and then call me sick, and suggest I have a fetish.

Anything to avoid admitting you are wrong.

For such a "brilliant" guy the Shapiro piece is surprisingly weak. Most of the examples aren't people claiming to be transgender, the dude in Toronto is clearly crazy and the Seattle example was a publicity stunt.

His brilliance wasn't necessary in order to merely provide examples. And your situational ethics cop-out doesn't cut it.

Jim said " These laws that allow any man to use the ladies room, make it easier for the demented heterosexual man to claim he's a tranny, to get access to the ladies room.

At first, you asked Jim for one example of what he said. But in response to the Shapiro article the one example morphs into " Most of the examples aren't people claiming to be transgender". The "most" is two (twice your requested one) is now insufficient.

Not only that, but Jim also said " If a man goes into the ladies room, there is no way to tell if it's a tranny, or just a perveted hetero." which the other three are examples of.

Spence, maybe you'll tell us that the World Health Organization doesn't know as much about this stuff as some gay rights group, but here's some pudding that's just chock full of truth. You will find it to be inconvenient truthm, and thus not to be accepted, but try telling a scientist that it's not chromosomes that determine your sex...

"Humans are born with 46 chromosomes in 23 pairs. The X and Y chromosomes determine a person’s sex"

http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html

Also..."Gender, typically described in terms of masculinity and femininity, is a social construction that varies across different cultures and over time"

Gender is what you are referring to, which I guess can be said to be interchangeable. Not biological sex. And when one goes into a public restroom, it's (hopefully) not to engage in a social experiment, but rather to take care of a biological function. That used to be a simple, non-controversial topic. Not anymore. Unbelievable.

Enjoy that pudding.

Also Spence, I see you didn't respond to a critical question of mine (shocker, I know)...what do you think of the fact that the Obama administration told the governor he could have a one week extension, only if he publicly acknowledged that the law is discriminatory and unconstitutional?

I can't believe this has gotten this much press.... ... ....

When you are wrong as often as liberals are, you don't want to talk about things that actually matter. Instead, you steer the conversation to topics where you feel you can make conservatives look like hatemongers and bigots.

Ah, but there's the rub. When government mandates how it must be, it is no longer a matter of individual choice. Does that bother you a little bit?

nope ... I never lost the individual choice to use the Head and I am not fear full of the liberal Government stealing my rights... a conservative government stealing my rights now thats another story ..

When you are wrong as often as liberals are, you don't want to talk about things that actually matter. Instead, you steer the conversation to topics where you feel you can make conservatives look like hatemongers and bigots.


Jim : Conservatives dont need help from liberals to make conservatives look like hatemongers and bigots. they do fine all by themselves ..

nope ... I never lost the individual choice to use the Head and I am not fear full of the liberal Government stealing my rights... a conservative government stealing my rights now thats another story ..

So you're OK with someone else losing their rights just as long as you don't lose yours. I didn't picture you as being that selfish.

And your not afraid of "liberal" government taking away what you consider your rights, but have some trepidation that a "conservative" one might. You have asked why "conservatives" are afraid of "liberals" and their policies or ideas. Maybe, if they really are "afraid," you have answered your questions. Maybe they are afraid for the same reasons you are.

But why do you so often cast conservatives as being afraid. That is so discriminatory. Allowing yourself to be afraid of them, but calling them cowards when they oppose your points of view.

Jim : Conservatives dont need help from liberals to make conservatives look like hatemongers and bigots. they do fine all by themselves ..

Well with that logic and supporting arguments and supporting data, how can I argue?

So you're OK with someone else losing their rights just as long as you don't lose yours. I didn't picture you as being that selfish.

And your not afraid of "liberal" government taking away what you consider your rights, but have some trepidation that a "conservative" one might. You have asked why "conservatives" are afraid of "liberals" and their policies or ideas. Maybe, if they really are "afraid," you have answered your questions. Maybe they are afraid for the same reasons you are.

But why do you so often cast conservatives as being afraid. That is so discriminatory. Allowing yourself to be afraid of them, but calling them cowards when they oppose your points of view.

What rights have you lost and I have gained or not lost ?? seems to be more emotional than factual ??


So in your world view allowing transgender to use the bathroom of the sex the identify with.. as taking your rights away in my world view its giving a right to people different than my self .. like same sex marriage its called addition not subtraction

I see conservatives much more willing to limit the rights of others and their own followers in order to maintain what they call Traditional Vaules but they use the word Ban all the time they ban this they will Ban that !! even in the 2a argument the right loves the word Ban for the past 50 years... I dont support banning guns but that wont stop Conservatives from thinking I do... why because I am not upset if a transgender uses the same rest room I do or gay people get married or people shouldn't be shot or beat by police no matter how much they may or may not deserve it .. reguardless of there Race


calling them cowards when they oppose your points of view,,???? Dont recall calling any one person a coward however being afraid is very different from being a coward and I haven't met many conservatives who wont defend their views Vigorously sadly I have met many liberals who don't defend their views Vigorously

1. Coward
a person who lacks the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things.

Afraid feeling reluctance, unwillingness, distaste, or the like:

good article...don't know how many of you actually know or have known transgender folks, I've had a family member go though this and have met other folks through the years, in my experience there are other serious mental issues related and I'm not sure that the gender confusion causes the mental issues or the mental issues cause the gender confusion but like many thing there is usually a significant life event that triggers final action.....in the case I'm closest with everything changed pretty suddenly after the loss of another family member...there was a lot of substance abuse involved which increased after the begining of the transformation and this person was very confident and fully expected the spouse to stay with them as a married couple after their transformation as the article points out....not to mention the incredible pain and agony the spouse went through





"For the last decade, the American public has been told that sexual orientation is a fixed, immutable characteristic — like skin color. Now we’re told that “gender identity” is much the same. Psychology is fixed. Biology has to adjust. But observe the lamentation in the video: A transgender boy wants other boys to change, to reject the “born this way” of their own sexuality for the open-mindedness of “getting physical” with a girl with a penis. Claire is desperate for their psychology to change, for their minds to open, and for their sexual identity to change in response to Claire’s allegedly unchangeable desires."

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/435321/ideo-transgender-teen-claire-tragedy-not-liberation

What rights have you lost and I have gained or not lost ?? seems to be more emotional than factual ??


So in your world view allowing transgender to use the bathroom of the sex the identify with.. as taking your rights away in my world view its giving a right to people different than my self .. like same sex marriage its called addition not subtraction

I see conservatives much more willing to limit the rights of others and their own followers in order to maintain what they call Traditional Vaules but they use the word Ban all the time they ban this they will Ban that !! even in the 2a argument the right loves the word Ban for the past 50 years... I dont support banning guns but that wont stop Conservatives from thinking I do... why because I am not upset if a transgender uses the same rest room I do or gay people get married or people shouldn't be shot or beat by police no matter how much they may or may not deserve it .. reguardless of there Race


calling them cowards when they oppose your points of view,,???? Dont recall calling any one person a coward however being afraid is very different from being a coward and I haven't met many conservatives who wont defend their views Vigorously sadly I have met many liberals who don't defend their views Vigorously

1. Coward
a person who lacks the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things.

Afraid feeling reluctance, unwillingness, distaste, or the like:

"I see conservatives much more willing to limit the rights of others and their own followers in order to maintain what they call Traditional Vaules "

If by 'rights' you mean those defined in the Constitution, then you are completely wrong.

If by 'rights' you mean made-up rights, then you might have a point.

"So in your world view allowing transgender to use the bathroom of the sex the identify with.. as taking your rights away "

It's taking the rights away from women who don't feel comfortable sharing a bathroom or a shower facility, with a man. You can't grasp that? If you are comfortable with something, then that means everyone else must be, too, or they are a hatemonger? There can be no reasonable disagreement with what you feel? But you say my side is taking away rights.

"people shouldn't be shot or beat by police no matter how much they may or may not deserve it "

OK, so if someone 'deserves' to be shot by police, they shouldn't be? So if someone shoots at a cop, you don't think the cop should shoot back.

Whew...

It's amazing how much time, energy and money has been wasted on a topic that will be easily fixed by just changing the damn bathroom door placard!!!

Frankly I don't give a crap about who uses the bathroom that I'm in, as long as whoever it is isn't touching me or broadcasting to the world that they are a "special person" that requires more consideration that everyone else.

Any clown that does that it destined for a down-n-dirty swirly!!!

looks like I left out unarmed my Fault
"people shouldn't be shot or beat by police no matter how much they may or may not deserve it "

What rights have you lost and I have gained or not lost ?? seems to be more emotional than factual ??

When the Federal Government goes beyond the powers reserved for it and usurps the powers left to the States and to the people in their localities, we have all lost constitutional rights not only to self-government, but the right to be free from oppressive government.

And when a central government grants itself the power to create rights outside of its right to do so, it engenders the belief and sets the precedent that our rights belong to it not to us. As that central power expands its domain over our lives with tens of thousands and growing numbers of regulations, even to minutiae such as gender preferences and bathrooms, it gives credence to the ideology that it should indeed have the power to do so, and that "rights," indeed, are created and given by government, and that any notion of rights being unalienable, not to be tampered with by government, is an old, unworkable, even silly notion.

In order to agree upon what rights we have lost or gained by unconstitutional regulation, we must first agree on the difference between unalienable rights and government granted rights. Unalienable rights are natural, inherently owned by individuals, precede government, and cannot be abridged by government. Government granted rights are owned by government's power to create them, and its power to take them away.

If you study the history of the Constitution and its transformation from law to a "living, breathing" embodiment of evolving unlimited governmental power, it will be obvious how much unalienable right we have lost and been replaced by government concocted, dictated, and owned "rights."

If we both agree on that, and you think you have lost nothing, but gained rights by it, then your love of and trust in the power of unlimited government is either emotional or based on the misunderstanding or ignorance of facts.

So in your world view allowing transgender to use the bathroom of the sex the identify with.. as taking your rights away in my world view its giving a right to people different than my self .. like same sex marriage its called addition not subtraction

I don't have a world view on "rights" to bathroom use. Such rights, if they truly can be considered "rights" rather than customs, are dependent on the people of different parts of the world. Should our Federal Government have its regulatory agencies tell the world how to use bathrooms? Should it be telling the people of all the localities in the U.S. how? Do You really want the Federal Government to have that much power? Well, it's apparently no skin off your nose if it does. But, here in the U.S. forcing the preference of a few over that of the many gives a preferential "right" to the few and takes away the preferential right of the rest. It seems, regarding addition and subtraction, it raises the sum of a few and subtracts from the sum of the many.

I see conservatives much more willing to limit the rights of others and their own followers in order to maintain what they call Traditional Vaules but they use the word Ban all the time they ban this they will Ban that !! even in the 2a argument the right loves the word Ban for the past 50 years... I dont support banning guns but that wont stop Conservatives from thinking I do... why because I am not upset if a transgender uses the same rest room I do or gay people get married or people shouldn't be shot or beat by police no matter how much they may or may not deserve it .. reguardless of there Race

You're not understanding that limiting the power of government expands the "rights" of the people. When you drift from that principle into the quagmire of "interpretation" and personal opinion, your perception clouds into a mixture of emotion, contradictory ideas, misperceptions, incomplete thoughts, and all matter of unintelligible confusion. You become ripe for rhetorical devices rather than logic.

calling them cowards when they oppose your points of view,,???? Dont recall calling any one person a coward however being afraid is very different from being a coward and I haven't met many conservatives who wont defend their views Vigorously sadly I have met many liberals who don't defend their views Vigorously

1. Coward
a person who lacks the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things.

Afraid feeling reluctance, unwillingness, distaste, or the like:

Fear is the overriding emotion in cowardice. There are several other definitions of "coward" other than the one you give. There's this: "Cowardice is a trait wherein fear and excess self-concern override doing or saying what is right, good and of help to others or oneself in a time of need." And, regarding the word "courage" which is part of the definition you give here, there is this: "Courage is resistance to fear."

Here are a few of instances you accused conservatives of fear:

"Step back from the emoting and fear and look at the big picture."

""Conservatives are afraid of everything and everyone."

"The possibility of other justices not seeing the world as you do its terrifying."

"Wow can you 2 be any more afraid of black people"

Those quotes have a good deal of what resides in various definitions of cowardice.

I don't have a world view on "rights" to bathroom use. Such rights, if they truly can be considered "rights" rather than customs, are dependent on the people of different parts of the world. Should our Federal Government have its regulatory agencies tell the world how to use bathrooms? Should it be telling the people of all the localities in the U.S. how? Do You really want the Federal Government to have that much power?


.


I suspect the answer is YES....up to and until they find that the government at the time disagrees with them politically or morally and then the answer would be absolutely NO.

The Obama Admin is warning school districts that full access to both bathrooms and by extension locker rooms is a "civil right"

I suspect we can save a ton of money going forward by building only one unisex restroom and/or shower facility throughout our society, why even build separate facilities when we've learned that they not really necessary and since there truly is no anatomical difference between the sexes, only state of mind and a truly open state of mind(which is a societal requirement) would never recognize any differences anyway.... which will make us much better off...an probably more like Europe...which is a good thing

I wonder, if a future administration dictates through the Federal Agencies that the "right to life" is a "civil right" and that this extends to those in the womb.....would this be a problem for the folks who applaud Federal Dictates?...surely no one can argue that the "right to life" is a "civil right" or that the right to life trumps the right to end one or the right to privacy .......can they???

the pendulum swings....

Fear is the overriding emotion in cowardice. There are several other definitions of "coward" other than the one you give. There's this: "Cowardice is a trait wherein fear and excess self-concern override doing or saying what is right, good and of help to others or oneself in a time of need." And, regarding the word "courage" which is part of the definition you give here, there is this: "Courage is resistance to fear."

Here are a few of instances you accused conservatives of fear:

"Step back from the emoting and fear and look at the big picture."

""Conservatives are afraid of everything and everyone."

"The possibility of other justices not seeing the world as you do its terrifying."

"Wow can you 2 be any more afraid of black people"

Those quotes have a good deal of what resides in various definitions of cowardice.

like I thought, never called any one a coward if you see fear residing in various definitions cowardice thats on you..

I clearly defined the differences between Cowardice and fear as I see it ... and how I apply it:kewl:

Another thread that has jokers doing their best to describe and define the ugly transformation our Country has taken under the guidance of the current administration. To me it is a joke that we have to discuss this foolishness. Bruce Jenner goes from Olympic hero to reality tv hero and we,as a country, sacrifice our values to accomadate the flake. It is no wonder Trump is doing so well with the liberal whiners that have been bred into society setting the pace,anything is possible.
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Well if I commit a crime, I think I'm gonna feel more comfortable as a female And therefore would feel more comfortable in a female prison . Just saying
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like I thought, never called any one a coward if you see fear residing in various definitions cowardice thats on you..

Right, you didn't use the word "coward." But, whether you meant that or not, your use of fear could certainly imply that. And fear residing in various definitions of cowardice is not on me, it is on actual, legitimate, definitions of fear and cowardice. But that is mostly an aside. As usual, you avoided rebutting most of, and the important part of my post.

I clearly defined the differences between Cowardice and fear as I see it

Right . . . clearly as you see it. But not clear in respect to how both words are defined in different contexts. And not clear on how the two words are united rather than different. Fear is the predominant emotion in cowardice.

And Fear, outside its dwelling in cowardice, can be solicitous, or even beautifully awesome:

Full Definition of fear per Webster:
a (1) : an unpleasant often strong emotion caused by anticipation or awareness of danger

b (1) : an instance of this emotion (2) : a state marked by this emotion

2: anxious concern : solicitude

3: profound reverence and awe especially toward God

4: reason for alarm : danger

Your use of "fear" had elements of definitions (1) and (4) but not clearly so or inappropriately so. And these definitions of fear are directly related to cowardice, being the reason for it. The other two definitions have no connection to cowardice nor your use of the word "fear."

... and how I apply it:kewl:

At best, your application was biased, derogatory, or too loose to convey any definite meaning--as is, quite often the case in "interpretation," personal opinion, or incorrect or improper application.

Also..."Gender, typically described in terms of masculinity and femininity, is a social construction that varies across different cultures and over time"

I believe I said as the brain is concerned...

It's this simple. You're born a man, brain thinks you're a woman, you have your genitalia reworked, hormone therapy, you sound-think-look-dress-act like a woman...yet state law says you have to use the men's room.

God help you down south.

Is this what you want your son walking into when he goes to the public restroom?

I believe I said as the brain is concerned...

It's this simple. You're born a man, brain thinks you're a woman, you have your genitalia reworked, hormone therapy, you sound-think-look-dress-act like a woman...yet state law says you have to use the men's room.

God help you down south.

Is this what you want your son walking into when he goes to the public restroom?

That's not a transgender either !
That's not what this law is about .
This will allow you to use a woman's bathroom if you have a penis and are heterosexual but identify as a women .
Like Bruce Jenner
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That's not a transgender either !
That's not what this law is about .
This will allow you to use a woman's bathroom if you have a penis and are heterosexual but identify as a women .
Like Bruce Jenner
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It is what these laws are about...it's everything.

It is what these laws are about...it's everything.

Except the feelings of those that expect privacy and normalcy
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It's this simple. You're born a man, brain thinks you're a woman, you have your genitalia reworked, hormone therapy, you sound-think-look-dress-act like a woman...yet state law says you have to use the men's room.


Key phrase there is have your genitalia reworked.....if you can still write your name in the snow, you're a dude.....enjoy the use of the urinals.
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I believe I said as the brain is concerned...

It's this simple. You're born a man, brain thinks you're a woman, you have your genitalia reworked, hormone therapy, you sound-think-look-dress-act like a woman...yet state law says you have to use the men's room.

God help you down south.

Is this what you want your son walking into when he goes to the public restroom?

In what context would you want your son walking into this?

Spence has confused offspring just from observing Daddy.
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I believe I said as the brain is concerned...

It's this simple. You're born a man, brain thinks you're a woman, you have your genitalia reworked, hormone therapy, you sound-think-look-dress-act like a woman...yet state law says you have to use the men's room.

God help you down south.

Is this what you want your son walking into when he goes to the public restroom?

It's this simple...you can do all those things, but YOU ARE STILL A MAN. Your chromosomes say you are a man.

And what none of you has touched upon, presumably because you can't argue that I'm wrong, is this...if you open up the ladies room to men who are trans, you cannot then prevent perverts and voyers from saying they are a tran, simply to gain access to the ladies rooms. So, regrettably, a small number of trans might have to be inconvenienced, to safeguard the privacy/safety of everyone else. We all have to make sacrifices for others.

I believe I said as the brain is concerned...

God help you down south.

?

Yeah, which is why they cannot build houses fast enough in places like NC, SC, TN, GA. And who is moving there? Young kids from New England, who graduate college and can't get down there fast enough.

I've been talking to the wife about possibly retiring down in NC. Been down there a couple of times the past year and really liked it down there.
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And what none of you has touched upon, presumably because you can't argue that I'm wrong, is this...if you open up the ladies room to men who are trans, you cannot then prevent perverts and voyers from saying they are a tran, simply to gain access to the ladies rooms. So, regrettably, a small number of trans might have to be inconvenienced, to safeguard the privacy/safety of everyone else. We all have to make sacrifices for others.
Jim, as you're a facts sort of guy try and find some that back up your assertion. You'll find plenty about how transgender people are harassed today and scant if any evidence these laws have been a problem in states where they've been implemented.

Key phrase there is have your genitalia reworked.....if you can still write your name in the snow, you're a dude.....enjoy the use of the urinals.
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Or if you're born a woman but look like a man be forced to walk into the ladies room, feel like an idiot and scare the crap out of the women.

Nice...

Jim, as you're a facts sort of guy try and find some that back up your assertion. You'll find plenty about how transgender people are harassed today and scant if any evidence these laws have been a problem in states where they've been implemented.

We talked about this. I googled 'woman assualted in restroom', and I got pages and pages of news stories. Opening up the ladies room to anyone who fancies going in there, increases the likelihood of these incidents. All you can do to respond, is offer vague denials that it happens. So clearly you ar enot a 'facts' kind of guy, unless the facts happen to support your agenda.

I have no doubt trannies get harassed in the mens room. It's not a perfect workd. We need to find the solution that stinks for the fewest number of people, and using that as a barometer, it's obvious.

Except the feelings of those that expect privacy and normalcy
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How much privacy should one expect in a public rest room or locker room? like they are in their Home??
most women locker rooms and bathroom i've seen have individual showers and stalls unlike mens gang showers in locker rooms

so you all want transgender dressed like a women who hasn't had a sex but looks and acts female and most wouldn't know the difference unless you got real close or looked under the hood to walk into a mens rest room or locker room and expect no one would notice? and that person would feel 100% comfortable along with the other men

But locker room have gay men and women mixed in you think they are not meat gazing ?? we add to the bathroom Law's

FYI freaks all ready exist this law wont increase them

We talked about this. I googled 'woman assualted in restroom', and I got pages and pages of news stories. Opening up the ladies room to anyone who fancies going in there, increases the likelihood of these incidents.
If that was the case then there would be police records of increased incidences in states with anti-discriminatory laws...

...but there isn't.

I'd wager that the type of law NC put through would actually create a lot more harassment.

You'll find plenty about how transgender people are harassed today and scant if any evidence these laws have been a problem in states where they've been implemented.

You can't legislate tolerance and acceptance.......#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s come in all shapes, sizes, and sexes......
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How much privacy should one expect in a public rest room or locker room? like they are in their Home??
most women locker rooms and bathroom i've seen have individual showers and stalls unlike mens gang showers in locker rooms

so you all want transgender dressed like a women who hasn't had a sex but looks and acts female and most wouldn't know the difference unless you got real close or looked under the hood to walk into a mens rest room or locker room and expect no one would notice? and that person would feel 100% comfortable along with the other men

But locker room have gay men and women mixed in you think they are not meat gazing ?? we add to the bathroom Law's

FYI freaks all ready exist this law wont increase them

I clearly haven't given this as much thought as you .
I just wouldn't want my granddaughter to use a bathroom and have a drag queen heterosexual male using the stall next to her . Is that too much to ask or do I now have to accompany her in the bathroom if I see a male version of Hillary Clinton follow her in ?
FYI tolerance and acceptance does increase that which was previously not tolerated . It's human nature .
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Or if you're born a woman but look like a man be forced to walk into the ladies room, feel like an idiot and scare the crap out of the women.

Nice...

Well . . . for those who are in there for a crap, but having trouble moving it, this would be a good thing.

Or, if your born with a male body . . . you know, a wee wee and such . . . and you go into a men's bathroom, no one will have his crap affected.

Remember this scene from Kindergarten Cop?

Here is an article that seems to be about having an open mind enough to want to learn more. Try to read the whole thing if you have a closed mind, but if your too close minded, you may not get it all.

https://baptistnews.com/2016/05/13/seven-things-im-learning-about-transgender-persons/#.VzX3bWFt89w.facebook

Seven things I’m learning about transgender persons
OPINIONMARK WINGFIELD | MAY 13, 2016

WingfieldI don’t know much about transgender issues, but I’m trying to learn.

How about you? How much do you really know about this subject beyond all the screaming headlines and concerns about who goes to the bathroom where?

The truth is that I don’t know any transgender persons — at least I don’t think I do. But with the help of a pediatrician friend and a geneticist friend, I’m listening and trying to learn. This is hard, though, because understanding the transgender experience seems so far outside what I have ever contemplated before. And the more I learn, the more theological questions I face as well. This is hard, even for a pastor.

Here’s some of what I’m learning from my friends who have experience as medical professionals dealing with real people and real families:

1. Even though LGBT gets lumped together in one tagline, the T is quite different than the LG and B. “Lesbian,” “gay” and “bisexual” describe sexual orientation. “Transgender” describes gender identity. These are not the same thing. Sexual orientation is about whom we feel an attraction to and want to mate with; gender identity is about whether we identify as male or female.

2. What you see is not always what you get. For the vast majority of humanity, the presence of male or female genitalia corresponds to whether a person is male or female. What you see is what you are. But for a small part of humanity (something less than 1 percent), the visible parts and the inner identity do not line up. For example, it is possible to be born with male genitalia but female chromosomes or vice versa. And now brain research has demonstrated that it also is possible to be born with female genitalia, female chromosomes but a male brain. Most of us hit the jackpot upon birth with all three factors lining up like cherries on a slot machine: Our anatomy, chromosomes and brain cells all correspond as either male or female. But some people are born with variations in one or two of these indicators.

3. Stuff happens at birth that most of us never know. It’s not an everyday occurrence but it’s also not infrequent that babies are born with ambiguous or incomplete sexual anatomy. In the past, surgeons often made the decision about whether this child would be a boy or a girl, based on what was the easiest surgical fix. Today, much more thought is given to these life-changing decisions.

4. Transgender persons are not “transvestites.” Far too many of us make this mix-up, in part because the words sound similar and we have no real knowledge of either. Cross-dressers, identified in slang as “transvestites,” are people (typically men) who are happy with their gender but derive pleasure from occasionally dressing like the opposite gender. Cross-dressing is about something other than gender identity.

5. Transgender persons are not pedophiles. The typical profile of a pedophile is an adult male who identifies as heterosexual and most likely even is married. There is zero statistical evidence to link transgender persons to pedophilia.

6. Transgender persons hate all the attention they’re getting. The typical transgender person wants desperately not to attract attention. All this publicity and talk of bathroom habits is highly disconcerting to people who have spent their lives trying not to stand out or become the center of attention.

7. Transgender persons are the product of nature much more than nurture. Debate the origins of homosexuality if you’d like and what role nature vs. nurture plays. But for those who are transgender, nature undeniably plays a primary role. According to medical science, chromosomal variances occur within moments of conception, and anatomical development happens within the nine months in the womb. There is no nature vs. nurture argument, except in cases of brain development, which is an emerging field of study.

This last point in particular raises the largest of theological questions. If Christians really believe every person is created in the image of God, how can we damn a baby who comes from the womb with gender dysphoria? My pediatrician friend puts it this way: “We must believe that even if some people got a lower dose of a chromosome, or an enzyme, or a hormonal effect, that does not mean that they got a lower dose of God’s image.”

I don’t know much about transgender issues, but I’m trying to learn — in part because I want to understand the way God has made us. For me, this is a theological quest as much as a biological inquiry or a political cause. How about you?

Here is an article that seems to be about having an open mind enough to want to learn more. Try to read the whole thing if you have a closed mind, but if your too close minded, you may not get it all.

https://baptistnews.com/2016/05/13/seven-things-im-learning-about-transgender-persons/#.VzX3bWFt89w.facebook

Seven things I’m learning about transgender persons
OPINIONMARK WINGFIELD | MAY 13, 2016

WingfieldI don’t know much about transgender issues, but I’m trying to learn.

How about you? How much do you really know about this subject beyond all the screaming headlines and concerns about who goes to the bathroom where?

The truth is that I don’t know any transgender persons — at least I don’t think I do. But with the help of a pediatrician friend and a geneticist friend, I’m listening and trying to learn. This is hard, though, because understanding the transgender experience seems so far outside what I have ever contemplated before. And the more I learn, the more theological questions I face as well. This is hard, even for a pastor.

Here’s some of what I’m learning from my friends who have experience as medical professionals dealing with real people and real families:

1. Even though LGBT gets lumped together in one tagline, the T is quite different than the LG and B. “Lesbian,” “gay” and “bisexual” describe sexual orientation. “Transgender” describes gender identity. These are not the same thing. Sexual orientation is about whom we feel an attraction to and want to mate with; gender identity is about whether we identify as male or female.

2. What you see is not always what you get. For the vast majority of humanity, the presence of male or female genitalia corresponds to whether a person is male or female. What you see is what you are. But for a small part of humanity (something less than 1 percent), the visible parts and the inner identity do not line up. For example, it is possible to be born with male genitalia but female chromosomes or vice versa. And now brain research has demonstrated that it also is possible to be born with female genitalia, female chromosomes but a male brain. Most of us hit the jackpot upon birth with all three factors lining up like cherries on a slot machine: Our anatomy, chromosomes and brain cells all correspond as either male or female. But some people are born with variations in one or two of these indicators.

3. Stuff happens at birth that most of us never know. It’s not an everyday occurrence but it’s also not infrequent that babies are born with ambiguous or incomplete sexual anatomy. In the past, surgeons often made the decision about whether this child would be a boy or a girl, based on what was the easiest surgical fix. Today, much more thought is given to these life-changing decisions.

4. Transgender persons are not “transvestites.” Far too many of us make this mix-up, in part because the words sound similar and we have no real knowledge of either. Cross-dressers, identified in slang as “transvestites,” are people (typically men) who are happy with their gender but derive pleasure from occasionally dressing like the opposite gender. Cross-dressing is about something other than gender identity.

5. Transgender persons are not pedophiles. The typical profile of a pedophile is an adult male who identifies as heterosexual and most likely even is married. There is zero statistical evidence to link transgender persons to pedophilia.

6. Transgender persons hate all the attention they’re getting. The typical transgender person wants desperately not to attract attention. All this publicity and talk of bathroom habits is highly disconcerting to people who have spent their lives trying not to stand out or become the center of attention.

7. Transgender persons are the product of nature much more than nurture. Debate the origins of homosexuality if you’d like and what role nature vs. nurture plays. But for those who are transgender, nature undeniably plays a primary role. According to medical science, chromosomal variances occur within moments of conception, and anatomical development happens within the nine months in the womb. There is no nature vs. nurture argument, except in cases of brain development, which is an emerging field of study.

This last point in particular raises the largest of theological questions. If Christians really believe every person is created in the image of God, how can we damn a baby who comes from the womb with gender dysphoria? My pediatrician friend puts it this way: “We must believe that even if some people got a lower dose of a chromosome, or an enzyme, or a hormonal effect, that does not mean that they got a lower dose of God’s image.”

I don’t know much about transgender issues, but I’m trying to learn — in part because I want to understand the way God has made us. For me, this is a theological quest as much as a biological inquiry or a political cause. How about you?

It's an interesting article, but it doesn't explain the need to change bathroom policies. Bullet point #6 seems to say that transgenders would rather not call attention to where they are going to pee. If the problem is strictly that they just don't feel right about going into a bathroom which is labeled the opposite of what their brain tells them they are, but going to the bathroom they prefer would call unwanted attention to who they are, then they are in a classic catch 22. And making all bathrooms unisex would still not satisfy their need to go to one which corresponds to their gender identification.

If it is the gender labels "men" and "women," or "male" and "female" posted on bathroom doors that causes them anguish, perhaps they can be changed to genital labels "penis" and "vagina." Then all who have the corresponding genitalia could feel comfortable about going to their correctly labeled bathrooms. There would be no discrimination--no matter what race, sexual orientation (heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, asexual), gender identity, religion or atheism, nationality, political persuasion, economic status, and so forth--all who have genitals corresponding to the label on the door would be welcome and equal. They would all have the same required physical characteristic and so would not have to feel they are in a place they don't belong or feel uncomfortable about. :love:

no it doesn't explain the legislatures doing what they do, but I thought some might see what some other opinions are about this small percent of the human race.
I have no answer that will please all the people all the time and I said it before, why call attention to it

If that was the case then there would be police records of increased incidences in states with anti-discriminatory laws...

...but there isn't.

I'd wager that the type of law NC put through would actually create a lot more harassment.

Let's be very clear on this (you don't like that, but let's try)...

You deny that opening up the ladies room to any man who want sto go in there, makes it easier for perverts to get in there? You deny that? Be very specific...

Many women doen't like the idea, Spence. Do they not have the right to feel secure in there.

perhaps they can be changed to genital labels "penis" and "vagina."

clearly the solution

Sorry, but the state of NC by passing a law for school kids to carry pepper spray to use against transgenders in the bathrooms if they feel threatened have gone to far....:)

Or if you're born a woman but look like a man be forced to walk into the ladies room, feel like an idiot and scare the crap out of the women.

Nice...

Nobody feels uncomfortable in their locker room.....good news is they are off to States....

http://fk9913znn4cbb6cf4e6a0z1d.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/c01-scov-05-4_3.jpg

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2016/05/17/shopper-upset-man-allowed-to-use-womens-dressing-room-in-ross/

This last point in particular raises the largest of theological questions. If Christians really believe every person is created in the image of God, how can we damn a baby who comes from the womb with gender dysphoria? My pediatrician friend puts it this way: “We must believe that even if some people got a lower dose of a chromosome, or an enzyme, or a hormonal effect, that does not mean that they got a lower dose of God’s image.”



Who the heck is damning a baby? If I say "those born with a wee-wee, use the mens room", that is tantamount to condemning babies? This is what liberals do. Instead of responding to what a conservative is saying, they respond to something (evil sounding) that no one ever said. And that's why we are talking about Donald Trump right now, because people are sick of that tactic.

Where in your article does it say, how we prevent true predators from using liberal bathroom policies, to gain access to the ladies room? What's to stop Willie Horton from saying "I am transgender, now please excuse me while I follow your 12 year-old daughter into the ladies room"?

How come no one addresses that? Because that's almost all that matters here. Spence tried to say that states with open bathroom access have seen no spike in these crimes. But (1) he provided no data to support that, and (2) this is a brand-new thing, so obviously we haven't seen the effects yet, and (3) common sense tells me that you cannot open up the ladies room to trannys, without making it easier for perverts to also get in., Are we going to make all men pass a polygraph test before they go into the ladies room, to make sure they are a tranny? Unless we are doing that, how can this idiotic policy not endanger all women?

It doesn't that and I never said it did
No one is condemning babies, that is just your over reaction. I didn't write it.
I get what you are saying about the tactic
It doesn't talk about how to prevent that and the legislatures who write these laws are the ones who should be the ones to cover all bases, that is their jobs. I suggest you write your legislatures and not on a fishing forum political forum.
People besides you do address that

How about in NC , are you supposed to come to the bathroom with your birth certificate to show you were born what it says on the door?

I am not a liberal Jim, but I know intolerance when I see it

If women are afraid of Willie Horton going in their bathroom and being threatened, I am pretty sure some law allowing transgendered to use it does not allow predators to commit crimes, so again, address the issue with your legislature, obviously the people in NC must have since they got something done to cause all this fuss over a bathroom. I suggest they carry mace or pepper spray. There are lots of sickos out there.

It doesn't that and I never said it did
No one is condemning babies, that is just your over reaction. I didn't write it.
I get what you are saying about the tactic
It doesn't talk about how to prevent that and the legislatures who write these laws are the ones who should be the ones to cover all bases, that is their jobs. I suggest you write your legislatures and not on a fishing forum political forum.
People besides you do address that

How about in NC , are you supposed to come to the bathroom with your birth certificate to show you were born what it says on the door?

I am not a liberal Jim, but I know intolerance when I see it

If women are afraid of Willie Horton going in their bathroom and being threatened, I am pretty sure some law allowing transgendered to use it does not allow predators to commit crimes, so again, address the issue with your legislature, obviously the people in NC must have since they got something done to cause all this fuss over a bathroom. I suggest they carry mace or pepper spray. There are lots of sickos out there.

"No one is condemning babies, that is just your over reaction. I didn't write it."

Here's what I was responding to..."how can we damn a baby who comes from the womb with gender dysphoria?"

"It doesn't talk about how to prevent that and the legislatures who write these laws are the ones who should be the ones to cover all bases, that is their jobs. "

IT CANNOT BE PREVENTED. Unfortunately, the predators don't walk around wearing signs. Therefore there is no conceivable way to differentiate between (1) a true transgender, and (2) a predator who claims to be transgender, just to get easier access to the ladies room. You cannot grasp that? Really?

"How about in NC , are you supposed to come to the bathroom with your birth certificate to show you were born what it says on the door?"

God. we all know what sex we were born (most of us at least). So if we make it illegal for men to use the ladies room (shocking, I know), fewer will do it. It doesn't stop all predators from going into the ladies room, but it makes it harder.

"I am not a liberal Jim, but I know intolerance when I see it"

Apparently not, because it's not intolerant. Slipknot, if I said I was a bird instead of a human being (which is no more or less incorrect than if I said I was a woman), does that mean I can poop on your windshield? If your answer is "no", does that make you intolerant? Not every single human impulse needs to be celebrated.

"I am pretty sure some law allowing transgendered to use it does not allow predators to commit crimes"

You are refusing to concede the obvious - that the liberal policy would make it easier for a pervert to walk in there. It doesn't allow the crime, but it sure makes it easier.

"obviously the people in NC must have since they got something done"

Correct. And that's called democracy. But Obama only likes democracy when it works for him, so he is violating the constitution (which gives the federal government exactly ZERO authority to regulate gender identity issues) and threaten the citizens of NC with forfeiture of federal funds. THAT is called fascism.

"I am not a liberal Jim, but I know intolerance when I see it"

Apparently not, because it's not intolerant. Slipknot, if I said I was a bird instead of a human being (which is no more or less incorrect than if I said I was a woman), does that mean I can poop on your windshield? If your answer is "no", does that make you intolerant? Not every single human impulse needs to be celebrated.
Jim, you're falling back on the same failed logic opponents of same sex marriage used for decades...if you let two gay people marry it's anything goes.

There are plenty of states with anti-discrimination laws and you can't cite any meaningful increase in complaints. Rather, your position is simply being informed by your bias which if enacted into law conflicts with some people's civil rights...

I am not a liberal Jim, but I know intolerance when I see it

-Slipnot

Yep.

Anyone else find it ironic that conservatives fly off the handle because they think their children are at risk because of this bathroom issue but could not care less about gun control ? And forget about global climate change, which in my opinion is a serious issue that our children's children are going to have to pay the piper for.
But heaven forbid a transgender has to take a dump in public.
Talk about mental illness.
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I think we should remove the words "Men" and "Women" from restroom doors.....since there is so much room for interpretation....

Just label them "Penis" and"Vagina"......now it's completely dependent on an anatomical fact....no more indiscriminate decisions to be made.
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Anyone else find it ironic that conservatives fly off the handle because they think their children are at risk because of this bathroom issue but could not care less about gun control ?
You mean like you can't stop the violence as criminals don't follow laws?

Sure.
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You mean like you can't stop the violence as criminals don't follow laws?

More like You can't prosecute me for being here.....the new law says I can be.
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Jim, you're falling back on the same failed logic opponents of same sex marriage used for decades...if you let two gay people marry it's anything goes.

There are plenty of states with anti-discrimination laws and you can't cite any meaningful increase in complaints. Rather, your position is simply being informed by your bias which if enacted into law conflicts with some people's civil rights...



Yep.

"Jim, you're falling back on the same failed logic opponents of same sex marriage used for decades...if you let two gay people marry it's anything goes"

Where to begin.

(1) gay marriage is brand new, so no one can say i fit will lead to "anything goes" yet. However, if the notion that the sexes is arbitrary, why can't I say that it being limited to 2 people, is also arbitrary? There isn't a single arguent you can make in favor of gay marriage, that can not also be made in favor of polygamy (I support gay marriage, however).

(2) if someone who is gay claims to be gay, they are not claiming to be something they are not. When a man claims to be a woman, he is as wrong as I would be if I said I was a bird. You cannot choose to change your chromosomes.

"There are plenty of states with anti-discrimination laws and you can't cite any meaningful increase in complaints"

Nor can you refute it. Please tell me where I am wrong, when I say that these laws make it easier for perverts to stroll in there. It's way too new to have any visible effect on data. We weren't talking about this 2 years ago.

"Rather, your position is simply being informed by your bias"

Not bias. Common sense. I have deep empathy for these people and want them to be happy.

"which if enacted into law conflicts with some people's civil rights..."

100%, demonstrably false. Read the Civil Rights Act, and please tell us where you see a single syllable about gender identity. It prevents discrimination based on "sex". As I showed you in an earlier post, one's sex is determined at birth (maybe at conception?) by thje chromosomes., and that never changes.

Anyone else find it ironic that conservatives fly off the handle because they think their children are at risk because of this bathroom issue but could not care less about gun control ? And forget about global climate change, which in my opinion is a serious issue that our children's children are going to have to pay the piper for.
But heaven forbid a transgender has to take a dump in public.
Talk about mental illness.
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"Anyone else find it ironic that conservatives fly off the handle because they think their children are at risk because of this bathroom issue but could not care less about gun control "

Which obviously explains why in Chicago (where they have very strict gun control), no children are ever harmed by guns. Right? Wow...

Jim, do you know what a hemaphrodyte is?
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You mean like you can't stop the violence as criminals don't follow laws?

So can you explain why Chicago is experiencing what it's experiencing? And DC, which basicall bannned handguns, was also a warzone.

I'm no huge fan of guns. But when th empirical evidence is the opposite of what the original spoeculation projected, then the original theory (widespread gun contrrol reduces gun crime) is flawed.

I sense an inconsistency here, Spence. I cannot point to any data that says that liberal bathroom laws result in a spike of crime. And you claim that means my conclusion is flawed.

How come you don't apply that same logic to gun control laws? Obviously you can't point to any data that says that gun crime in Chicago is way down. So unless you are a hypocrite, why aren't you agreeing with th econservative talking point here?

Have fun with that one.

Can we get back to the Democratic Party self imploding and Hillary rapidly dropping in the polls 😃
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I'd say the GOP has imploded a lot more seriously than the Democratic Party
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I'd say the GOP has imploded a lot more seriously than the Democratic Party
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that's hilarious

that's hilarious

They dont accomplish anything. And look who's their front man. trump! He's barely as much a republican as sanders is a democrat. One is a socialist and the other is a fascist :hihi:
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They dont accomplish anything. And look who's their front man. trump! He's barely as much a republican as sanders is a democrat. One is a socialist and the other is a fascist :hihi:
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Well the Democrats are working hard at making sure that men can go into the little girls room .
Wait till a transgender walks into the lady's bathroom and a male Syrian refugee standing near the door waiting for his little girl , lays a down on "shim" .
It's enough to make a liberals head explode .
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Your daughter has a higher chance of being shot in a gang related crime :rtfm:
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Your daughter has a higher chance of being shot in a gang related crime :rtfm:
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Yes and the risk of dying in a terrorist attack is about the same .
Very comforting to the families of the 66 killed today
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Yes and the risk of dying in a terrorist attack is about the same .
Very comforting to the families of the 66 killed today
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No it isn't. The chance of being caught in a terror attack is something like its 2 times more likely that you are hit by lightning than being caught in a terror attack.

Once you realize terror events are used as tools to control the masses you think with open eyes.
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Jim, do you know what a hemaphrodyte is?
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Not exactly. I know that's not what we are talking about here, not even close.

Not exactly. I know that's not what we are talking about here, not even close.

Might help if he spelled it right..... :hee:
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Not exactly. I know that's not what we are talking about here, not even close.
See this is the problem with conservative robots.

A "girl" can be born with a penis. A "boy" can be born with ovaries.

These people then have surgery to "identify" with what sex they feel most comfortable.
It's really that simple.
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[QUOTE=Nebe;1100840]See this is the problem with conservative robots.

A "girl" can be born with a penis. A "boy" can be born with ovaries.

Dood.
Please send me some of your weed.
It's obviously some good #^&#^&#^&#^& !
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See this is the problem with conservative robots.

A "girl" can be born with a penis. A "boy" can be born with ovaries.

These people then have surgery to "identify" with what sex they feel most comfortable.
It's really that simple.
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As I said, that's not what we are talking about here. A transgender can include a person who has male chromosomes and male anatomy, but simply chooses to be a woman.

Do I always have to address your points, without you ever addressing mine? What do you say to a 12 year old girl, who doesn't want to share either a rest room, or a school rocker room, with a boy who chooses to call himself a girl? Does that girl not have any rights?

You guys keep trying to make it a transgender issue....it's not a transgender issue....it's a "why is it acceptable to make a minority feel comfortable at the cost of a majority" issue.

I personally don't care if you stand or squat......but it does bother some people, so why don't their feelings count?
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No it isn't. The chance of being caught in a terror attack is something like its 2 times more likely that you are hit by lightning than being caught in a terror attack.

So we shouldn't get worked up about some thing that only occurs half as much as lightening strikes. But we must create federal mandates to suit those who only comprise 0.3% of the population?

And, BTW, lightening strikes randomly occur during the daily natural 100,000 to 120,000 thunder storms in the U.S. every year. Terror attacks are planned. And they only occur when human agents decide the time and place suits them. Considering how so few terror attacks occur every year in the U.S. compared to the number of thunder storms, the number killed by terror attack can be exponentially higher, even by the thousands, than the number killed by a lightening strike. And it is far more certain that terror attacks will result in death than it will be by lightening strikes. And much more can be done to prevent terror attacks than can be done to prevent thunder storms. It speaks to the deadliness and danger of terrorist attacks in comparison with lightening strikes when 120,000 thunder storms only create twice as many deaths as less than a handful of terror attacks.

Your comparison is a meaningless Spencist apples and oranges one.

Once you realize terror events are used as tools to control the masses you think with open eyes.
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That can be true. But it also is true that many of what we call terror attacks are actually not motivated by the desire to scare people into submission, but really are meant simply to kill as many "infidels," for instance, as possible. And in areas where the so-called "terrorists" have the upper hand, actual genocide, not terror, is intended. If we close our eyes to those goals and motivations, we do so at our own peril.

I have no doubt !

You guys keep trying to make it a transgender issue....it's not a transgender issue....it's a "why is it acceptable to make a minority feel comfortable at the cost of a majority" issue.

I personally don't care if you stand or squat......but it does bother some people, so why don't their feelings count?
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With grammar like this you have no right to question spelling.
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With grammar like this you have no right to question spelling.
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Fixed it.....
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