https://www.yahoo.com/news/obama-ready-face-historic-haunted-ground-hiroshima-072104282.html


"Let the world say, 'Here is the fruit of the genocide of untold millions of Chinese, Singaporeans, Filipinos, Koreans, and countless others.' Let history say, 'Here is where that genocide was dealt a mortal blow." -What the President DIDN'T say when he visited Hiroshima yesterday.

What fell from the sky wasn't "death." It was what STOPPED death, in the form of the genocide which had been so savagely inflicted upon an entire continent by the perpetrators of the only atrocity in history which is perfectly analogous to what the Nazis did in Europe. The bombing ended the most catastrophic war in human history. What fell from the sky brought "peace." And the people that benefited the most from that bombing were the Japanese themselves. Because the alternative was an invasion of the mainland, and if that happened, they might have died to the last child. An invasion would have hurt the Japanese far more than it would have hurt America.

So we can add 'historian' to the long list of thing Obama sucks at. It's on the list just after 'Cuban tango dancer', maybe the last thing I would have assumed he'd be good at.

I'm not saying you go over there thumping your chest and doing a touchdown dance. But we are not to blame for this, their previous leaders are to blame.

It's a somber moment. But to fail to remember it accurately, is to invite it to happen again.

Your hate has no limits.

I keep focusing on his word 'evil'?

What does Obama think the intent was of dropping the bomb? And what was the result?

We told Japan we had the bomb, and told them to surrender. They said "no thanks, we would prefer to continue to cccupy most of this continent, so that we can continue to enslave, rape, murder, and eat, millions more".

The alternative was invading Japan. Wpould Japan be bette roff, or worse off, had we done that.

If I am asked to write Obama's epitaph, it would be thus...

President Obama...always wrong, yet somehow, never in doubt. Where does that arrogance come from, when everything you touch turns into vomit?

Your hate Obama's incompetence has no limits.

Fixed it for ya. You're welcome.

I can't stand the guy, Spence, I don't deny it. But as always, you insult me, but don't bother to point out where I'm wrong.

Do us a favor read 'Thje Rape Of Nanking', you can get the Cliffs Notes somewhere, then get back to me, and tell me it was 'evil' of us to take steps to end that war.

If what we did was evil, how would Obama describe what the Japanese had done? I don't think there's a worse word in our lnguage, so it's clear to me he's making a moral equivalence between what we did to end the war, and everything th eJapanese did during the war. If I am wrong on that score, I'd just love for you to explain how.

What we did was awful, it was beyond terrible. But given the circumstances, it wasn't even close to being 'evil'.

no apology needed...the imperial japanese brought it on them self's....they never apologized for the attack on pearl harbor killing over 2000 americans...they slaugtered 90 plus civilians at wake island....they slaugtered many on the bataan death march....they slaugtered civilian philippians and bayoneted their babies....the dropping of little boy & fat man is estimated at saving a million american servicemen......so I say, "who owes an apology?....obama did not apologize.

....obama did not apologize.

I missed the apology in the speech.....

I'd also argue that keeping Japan, S. Korea and Vietnam on our side is a good hedge against the Chinese and N. Koreans....

I missed the apology in the speech.....

I'd also argue that keeping Japan, S. Korea and Vietnam on our side is a good hedge against the Chinese and N. Koreans....

I didn't say he apologized.

Rockhound, was it 'evil' for the US to drop the bomb on Japan, at that time, with the hope of avoiding the invasion? Do you really htink 'evil' is the way to describe our actions?

I don't get it, and I will say it again...there is nothing that unites liberals and conservatives anymore, and it's mostly (not all) because liberals have really said 'adios' to reality and common sense. On economic issues, liberals pretend that arithmetic does not exist, and that observeable evidence of liberal policies is to be ignored. On moral issues, it's bordering on the satanic. According to liberalism, it was evil to end WWII. Also, it's OK for Abu Mumia Jamal to give a college commencement address, but not Condaleeza Rice. Is that about right? What the hell is in that Kool Aid, anyway?

.

I didn't say he apologized.

Rockhound, was it 'evil' for the US to drop the bomb on Japan, at that time, with the hope of avoiding the invasion? Do you really htink 'evil' is the way to describe our actions?



.

“Death fell from the sky and the world was changed,” Obama said, “The flash of light and a wall of fire destroyed a city and demonstrated that mankind possessed the means to destroy itself.”

Where did he decry it as evil?? I didn't see the whole speech but read two different articles about it...

Evil, no. At the time, probably the best action to end the war.

Where did he decry it as evil?? I didn't see the whole speech but read two different articles about it...
Rock, remember that Jim doesn't do well with broad or abstract concepts. Like the notion that the decision to drop the bomb wasn't evil but that nuclear weapons are.

And Obama does not do well with conventional history. Perhaps there is a reason that a sitting American president has not gone to Hiroshima until now.

But he did not say evil, though he did say morals need to develop in conjunction with scientific advances. Sadly, the way morals have developed in the 7 decades following the Greatest Generation, a liberation of Europe or Asia would probably not take place today if history would repeat.

So as America turns its cheek and wanes both in capability and in responsibility, others will happily occupy our absence in that role. China and Russia in particular are salivating at the demise of the USA as a force generally for good, generally for peace. Our kids and grandkids will sadly pay that bill. What is old is new again.

Perhaps there is a reason that a sitting American president has not gone to Hiroshima until now.
Because they can't handle difficult subjects?

Because they can't handle difficult subjects?

Like affordable healthcare and fixing the deficit?
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I missed the apology in the speech.....

I'd also argue that keeping Japan, S. Korea and Vietnam on our side is a good hedge against the Chinese and N. Koreans....

I agree with U 100%....we R obligated to protect japan and south korea....we may need them deep water ports in vietnam

jim. Could you do a better job?
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jim. Could you do a better job?
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I believe you could do a better job !
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I believe you could do a better job !
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Well that is quite a compliment ! I will name you secretary of fermented affairs. 😅😂
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Well that is quite a compliment ! I will name you secretary of fermented affairs. 😅😂
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🍻
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we dropped the bomb on Japan because we did not see them as we saw our European brothers we saw them as inferior .. we interned fellow americans because of their yellow skin and to show the russian's

who declared war on japan August 8, 1945, be dropped the last bomb August 9, the U.S. dropped a plutonium implosion-type bomb (Fat Man) on the city of Nagasaki. and uranium gun-type atomic bomb (Little Boy)


think what you want this was a field test

we dropped the bomb on Japan because we did not see them as we saw our European brothers we saw them as inferior .. we interned fellow americans because of their yellow skin and to show the russian's
That doesn't explain Dresden...

“Death fell from the sky and the world was changed,” Obama said, “The flash of light and a wall of fire destroyed a city and demonstrated that mankind possessed the means to destroy itself.”

Where did he decry it as evil?? I didn't see the whole speech but read two different articles about it...

Evil, no. At the time, probably the best action to end the war.

Sorry..."we shall not repeat the evil"

"death fell from the sky and the world was changed,”

True. The world enjoyed peace for the first time in a decade. Thanks to that bomb, people all over occupied Asia were free of their chains. To Obama, those are trivial details.

http://gephardtdaily.com/national-international/obama-says-shall-not-repeat-evil-site-hiroshima-nuclear-bombing/

"At the time, probably the best action to end the war"

Not probably. And what made it the best alternative was nothing coming from our side...it was the fanaticism of the Japanese...

we dropped the bomb on Japan because we did not see them as we saw our European brothers we saw them as inferior .. we interned fellow americans because of their yellow skin and to show the russian's

who declared war on japan August 8, 1945, be dropped the last bomb August 9, the U.S. dropped a plutonium implosion-type bomb (Fat Man) on the city of Nagasaki. and uranium gun-type atomic bomb (Little Boy)


think what you want this was a field test

"we dropped the bomb on Japan because we did not see them as we saw our European brothers "

That could be. Or it could be (and in fact it is) that we bombed Japan, and not Germany...because when we bombed Hiroshima in August 1945, Germany had already surrendered (in May 1945). In fact, the surrender of Germany happened before we even tested the bomb in New Mexico (July 1945), so there was no reason to bomb Germany in August 1945?

"we saw them as inferior"

Because they were inferior. Vastly, vastly inferior. Read the Rape Of Nanking. Or Flyboys.

Because they can't handle difficult subjects?

And there is liberalism! I could not pick a better example of the elitism and arrogance.

Rock, remember that Jim doesn't do well with broad or abstract concepts. Like the notion that the decision to drop the bomb wasn't evil but that nuclear weapons are.

I fully concede that nukes are bad, and that the bombing of Japan was terrible.

I'll ask you pal...was the bombing of Japan 'evil' in your mind? Why? What was our intent, do you think? Was the bombing of Japan, any kind or moral equivalent, with what Japan had done?

Obama didn't just say that nukes are evil. He said that what happened at Hiroshima was evil. He is saying that what we did, was evil.

It's bullsh*t. It's not abstract. We stopped the rape of China. Is that an abstraction? Why is it that I understand that, and you (and Obama) can't? Seems to me, that you two are the dummies who can't see what's going on.

But he did not say evil, .

Yes he did.

"for we shall not repeat the evil"

http://gephardtdaily.com/national-international/obama-says-shall-not-repeat-evil-site-hiroshima-nuclear-bombing/


We dropped the bomb to end the war. The war that Japan started and refused to stop. And the atrocities they committed, stupefy the human mind. And the bomb was also a Godsend for Japan, because the alternative was all-out invasion. That would have been far worse for Japan.

jim. Could you do a better job?
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Than Obama? Nebe, my flat-coated retriever could do a better job. Every person on this forum could do a better job.

And it wasn't merely "death" that fell from the sky. To the brutalized slaves of Japanese-occupied lands, what fell from the sky was hope, peace, and freedom. It was the answer to their fervent, frantic, desperate prayers, that somewhere in this world, someone gave a sh*t about what was happening to them. Paul Tibbets got in his plane for them. And if he was shot down, he would not have been given a parade in Tokyo. But he risked getting tortured and eaten, he took that risk because the strong have an obligation to help the weak. What happened at Hiroshima, is that genocide was brought to its knees. By the most generous, free country that the world has ever known.

Obama calls that evil, and Spence says that I am unable to grasp the subtle abstractions which dictate that it was the opposite of what I claim. I think the two of them are completely fuc*ed in the head, but that could be the few beers I had earlier.

That could be. Or it could be (and in fact it is) that we bombed Japan, and not Germany...because when we bombed Hiroshima in August 1945, Germany had already surrendered (in May 1945). In fact, the surrender of Germany happened before we even tested the bomb in New Mexico (July 1945), so there was no reason to bomb Germany in August 1945?.

Damn those blasted timelines......
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Damn those blasted timelines......
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who needs timelines when you have a narrative? :read:

That doesn't explain Dresden...

the intent of bombing dresden wasn't to test a new weapon ..


The bombing and the resulting firestorm destroyed over 1,600 acres (6.5 km2) of the city centre.[2] An estimated 22,700[3] to 25,000[4] people were killed.


67 Japanese Cities Firebombed in World War II

http://www.ditext.com/japan/napalm.html
Name of Japanese
city firebombed Percentage of the
city destroyed Equivalent in size to
the following American city

Yokohama 58 Cleveland
Tokyo 51 New York
Toyama 99 Chattanooga
Nagoya 40 Los Angeles
Osaka 35.1 Chicago
Nishinomiya 11.9 Cambridge
Siumonoseki 37.6 San Diego
Kure 41.9 Toledo

we dropped the bomb on Japan because we did not see them as we saw our European brothers we saw them as inferior .. we interned fellow americans because of their yellow skin and to show the russian's

think what you want this was a field test

sounds like Spence thinks we dropped evil with the best of intentions and you think we dropped evil with bad intentions and racist, bigoted motivations...you two should discuss proper use of evil...:uhuh:

That doesn't explain Dresden...

the intent of bombing dresden wasn't to test a new weapon ..


The bombing and the resulting firestorm destroyed over 1,600 acres (6.5 km2) of the city centre.[2] An estimated 22,700[3] to 25,000[4] people were killed.

Within the first two to four months of the bombings, the acute effects of the atomic bombings killed 90,000–146,000 people in Hiroshima and 39,000–80,000 in Nagasaki; roughly half of the deaths in each city occurred on the first day.

and lets look at all the data that came after the war and how it advanced or knowledge of radiation fall out and effects of the bomb

67 Japanese Cities Firebombed in World War II

http://www.ditext.com/japan/napalm.html
Name of Japanese
city firebombed Percentage of the
city destroyed Equivalent in size to
the following American city

Yokohama 58 Cleveland
Tokyo 51 New York
Toyama 99 Chattanooga
Nagoya 40 Los Angeles
Osaka 35.1 Chicago
Nishinomiya 11.9 Cambridge
Siumonoseki 37.6 San Diego
Kure 41.9 Toledo

sounds like Spence thinks we dropped evil with the best of intentions and you think we dropped evil with bad intentions and racist, bigoted motivations...you two should discuss proper use of evil...:uhuh:

no we dropped it to test a new weapon in hind sight you could say it was an evil act I am not suggesting that at all but It wasn't done just to end the war it might have been part of it but not the sole reason

the intent of bombing dresden wasn't to test a new weapon ..


The bombing and the resulting firestorm destroyed over 1,600 acres (6.5 km2) of the city centre.[2] An estimated 22,700[3] to 25,000[4] people were killed.


67 Japanese Cities Firebombed in World War II

http://www.ditext.com/japan/napalm.html
Name of Japanese
city firebombed Percentage of the
city destroyed Equivalent in size to
the following American city

Yokohama 58 Cleveland
Tokyo 51 New York
Toyama 99 Chattanooga
Nagoya 40 Los Angeles
Osaka 35.1 Chicago
Nishinomiya 11.9 Cambridge
Siumonoseki 37.6 San Diego
Kure 41.9 Toledo

WDMSO, are you under the impression that we decided on our own, to pick on Japan in 1942?

It wasn't done just to end the war it might have been part of it but not the sole reason

What do you base that on, if I may ask?

What do you base that on, if I may ask?

He's correct - the primary reason was to encourage the Japanese to end the war (and saving millions of lives, American, Chinese, Indo-China, Korean, and yes, Japanese too).

It was also intended to influence the Soviets, and hedge their thoughts of invasion of Japan, But that is considered an influential but not deciding factor. Remember - Truman did not initially know of the bomb until shortly before

Missing in this discussion is that Germany and Japan both had Atomic weapons programs and had their efforts been more fruitful and advanced, things might have been a lot different.

He's correct .

it's hard to be wrong stating the obvious "not the sole reason"....I think the rub is the suggestion that we did it to "field test" a weapon of mass destruction on folks("inferiors") that we didn't necessarily mind mass destroying(women, children and the like) simply because they didn't look like us or our "european brothers"....

it's hard to be wrong stating the obvious "not the sole reason"....I think the rub is the suggestion that we did it to "field test" a weapon of mass destruction on folks("inferiors") that we didn't necessarily mind mass destroying(women, children and the like) simply because they didn't look like us or our "european brothers"....


As unpalatable as that may be by todays standard .... I strongly feel thats exactly what we did... most of the propaganda of that time reflects that believe

WDMSO, are you under the impression that we decided on our own, to pick on Japan in 1942?

I have no issues in what was done to japan to include the bomb or germany during war its about winning and i wasn't fighting that war those who were did what they felt best for the country.. i just am not blinded by patriotism or nationalism that 71 years later things should be viewed through the same 1942 lens ... its not revisionist history people had reservations then

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/bomb/large/documents/index.php?documentdate=1945-07-17&documentid=79&studycollectionid=abomb&pagenumber=1

As unpalatable as that may be by todays standard .... I strongly feel thats exactly what we did... most of the propaganda of that time reflects that believe



Jesus God Almighty, that was the world then. Japan set out to enslave the world. They were well on their way until we stepped in. Captured American fliers WDERE TORTURED AND EATEN, and back then we didn't give a sh*t about political correctness. We wanted to annihilate them. They were barbaric monsters.

I have no issues in what was done to japan to include the bomb or germany during war its about winning and i wasn't fighting that war those who were did what they felt best for the country.. i just am not blinded by patriotism or nationalism that 71 years later things should be viewed through the same 1942 lens ... its not revisionist history people had reservations then

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/bomb/large/documents/index.php?documentdate=1945-07-17&documentid=79&studycollectionid=abomb&pagenumber=1

Yes, we had reservations.

But it wasn't an evil act, and for Obama to say it was...he's a village idiot, we elected the village idiot.

Yes, we had reservations.

But it wasn't an evil act, and for Obama to say it was...he's a village idiot, we elected the village idiot.
Jim, he never said that.

You need help.

Jim, he never said that.

You need help.

"We shall not repeat the evil".

what was he referring to?

"We shall not repeat the evil".

what was he referring to?

another Clinton Presidency...just a guess

another Clinton Presidency...just a guess
:rotfl:
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that hitler poster is pretty offensive...I can't believe we stooped to that:doh:

that hitler poster is pretty offensive...I can't believe we stooped to that:doh:


just demonstrating the stark deference between the 2 theaters

this is as sinister as the Germans one get

"We shall not repeat the evil".

what was he referring to?

a world War comes to mind

"We shall not repeat the evil".

what was he referring to?
He never said that Jim.

"Let all the souls here rest in peace, for we shall not repeat the evil" is an English translation of an epitaph on the Hiroshima memorial.

You've once again been duped by fake right wing "news."

just demonstrating the stark deference between the 2 theaters

this is as sinister as the Germans one get

long and storied history of depicting the enemy in unflattering caricature...nothing new...still to this day

He never said that Jim.

"Let all the souls here rest in peace, for we shall not repeat the evil" is an English translation of an epitaph on the Hiroshima memorial.

You've once again been duped by fake right wing "news."

First you denied that he said "evil". Now, you're saying...I don't know what... but you are claiming that by "evil", Obama wasn't referring to our dropping the bomb. His whole speech was about nukes, and the people who died at Hiroshima, and the death fell from above, duh duh duh.

a world War comes to mind

His whole speech was about nukes, and that death fell from above, and about the people who died at Hiroshima. Sorry if the text of his speech proves my point...

His whole speech was about nukes, and that death fell from above, and about the people who died at Hiroshima. Sorry if the text of his speech proves my point...

it was at hiroshima why wouldn't it be about nukes?? and a world war guess you didnt take the time to read the speech

The world war that reached its brutal end in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was fought among the wealthiest and most powerful of nations. Their civilizations had given the world great cities and magnificent art. Their thinkers had advanced ideas of justice and harmony and truth. And yet the war grew out of the same base instinct for domination or conquest that had caused conflicts among the simplest tribes, an old pattern amplified by new capabilities and without new constraints.
In the span of a few years, some 60 million people would die. Men, women, children, no different than us. Shot, beaten, marched, bombed, jailed, starved, gassed to death. There are many sites around the world that chronicle this war, memorials that tell stories of courage and heroism, graves and empty camps that echo of unspeakable depravity.


Still, every act of aggression between nations, every act of terror and corruption and cruelty and oppression that we see around the world shows our work is never done. We may not be able to eliminate man’s capacity to do evil, so nations and the alliances that we form must possess the means to defend ourselves. But among those nations like my own that hold nuclear stockpiles, we must have the courage to escape the logic of fear and pursue a world without them.
^^^^^^this is the only mention of evil in his whole speech


heres a link to the whole speech http://time.com/4350339/barack-obama-hiroshima-speech-full-text/

that speech sucks :uhuh: just more lecturing from the lecturer-in-chief

Obama skips over important facts like Japan killed an estimated 14 million Chinese citizens in its invasion of China. And during the course of that invasion, its forces acted much like Hitler’s SS, conducting mass-scale rapes, grotesque human experimentation, and enslaving countless men, women, and children.

In the Battle of Okinawa just prior, in slightly less than three months of combat, more than 20,000 Americans died, over 70,000 Japanese troops lost their lives, and up to one-third of Japanese civilians perished. One battle was deadlier than the Hiroshima bombing.

I'd have to check the timeline to be sure but I'm pretty sure we were aware of the the Japanese atrocities, their ferocity and willingness to fight to the last man,woman, child going in....I don't believe we understood the depth of the atrocities of the Germans till we began liberating those camps near the time of surrender.

So the horrors of the Nazis were being uncovered leading up to and after surrender in May of 1945....we had the bloodiest battle of the Pacific in Okinawa ending in June 1945...and "WE DROPPED DEATH" August 6th 1945...and changed the world...presumably for the worse:confused:



"Seventy-one years ago, on a bright cloudless morning, death(from America) fell from the sky and the world was changed. A flash of light and a wall of fire destroyed a city and demonstrated that mankind(America) possessed the means to destroy itself.
Why do we come to this place, to Hiroshima? We come to ponder a terrible force (America) unleashed in a not-so-distant past. We come to mourn the dead (killed by America), including over 100,000 Japanese men, women and children, thousands of Koreans, a dozen Americans held prisoner.
Their souls speak to us. They ask us to look inward, to take stock of who we are and what we might become.

Yet in the image of a mushroom cloud that rose into these skies, we are most starkly reminded of (America's)humanity’s core contradiction. "


I wonder if Obama ever ponders what the world would look like if America had not intervened?

My grandfather never owned a Japanese car. Or a German car. How quickly we forget.
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How quickly we forget.
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and how quickly we forgive...we began rebuilding these nations that unleashed historic horrors on the world immediately...

taking "stock of who we are and what we might become."

he makes me vomit

My grandfather never owned a Japanese car. Or a German car. How quickly we forget.
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I crack up at a particular area union facility with BMWs, Mercs, Lexus, etc - and me with my lowly F150.

and how quickly we forgive...we began rebuilding these nations that unleashed historic horrors on the world immediately...

taking "stock of who we are and what we might become."

he makes me vomit

Yes, nation building at considerable cost, of civilized nations, that had been thoroughly defeated. To assist in providing a counterweight to the Soviet Union.

Hard to say how much better it could have worked out ;)

Hard to say how much better it could have worked out ;)

also consider.....how many folks listening to that speech would not be around to hear it, either directly or having never been born if we'd gone ahead with a mainland invasion...the loss of life estimates were astronomic...not to mention all the rubble

that speech sucks :uhuh: just more lecturing from the lecturer-in-chief

Obama skips over important facts like Japan killed an estimated 14 million Chinese citizens in its invasion of China. And during the course of that invasion, its forces acted much like Hitler’s SS, conducting mass-scale rapes, grotesque human experimentation, and enslaving countless men, women, and children.

In the Battle of Okinawa just prior, in slightly less than three months of combat, more than 20,000 Americans died, over 70,000 Japanese troops lost their lives, and up to one-third of Japanese civilians perished. One battle was deadlier than the Hiroshima bombing.

I'd have to check the timeline to be sure but I'm pretty sure we were aware of the the Japanese atrocities, their ferocity and willingness to fight to the last man,woman, child going in....I don't believe we understood the depth of the atrocities of the Germans till we began liberating those camps near the time of surrender.

So the horrors of the Nazis were being uncovered leading up to and after surrender in May of 1945....we had the bloodiest battle of the Pacific in Okinawa ending in June 1945...and "WE DROPPED DEATH" August 6th 1945...and changed the world...presumably for the worse:confused:



"Seventy-one years ago, on a bright cloudless morning, death(from America) fell from the sky and the world was changed. A flash of light and a wall of fire destroyed a city and demonstrated that mankind(America) possessed the means to destroy itself.
Why do we come to this place, to Hiroshima? We come to ponder a terrible force (America) unleashed in a not-so-distant past. We come to mourn the dead (killed by America), including over 100,000 Japanese men, women and children, thousands of Koreans, a dozen Americans held prisoner.
Their souls speak to us. They ask us to look inward, to take stock of who we are and what we might become.

Yet in the image of a mushroom cloud that rose into these skies, we are most starkly reminded of (America's)humanity’s core contradiction. "


I wonder if Obama ever ponders what the world would look like if America had not intervened?


Obama skips over important facts.. was he giving a speech or a history lesson??


1 bomb =100,000 Japanese men, women and children, thousands of Koreans, a dozen Americans held prisoner.in an instant [/B]


80 day plus battle for the Island of Okinawa which some have described as the "typhoon of steel"


if you see theses as equal you dont understand how it changed the world and warfare for ever

WOW funny to see people hold a grudge against the Japanese..over a war that was Fought 71 years ago ! do you still hate the British and the french or Germans for past wars and battles and gas chambers and other atrocities

of course not they are European

Obama skips over important facts.. was he giving a speech or a history lesson??




he was giving one of his obnoxious self-serving lectures

WOW funny to see people hold a grudge against the Japanese..over a war that was Fought 71 years ago ! do you still hate the British and the french or Germans for past wars and battles and gas chambers and other atrocities

of course not they are European

no grudge or hate.....things turned out as well for the Japanese as could have been expected given all that transpired and what may have been.... same for the Germans


seems like racism and hate must play a part in the narrative to help maintain it for some :kewl:

if Obama wants to be productive and make some "CHANGE" before he goes on permanent vacation...he should put his nose in the air and fly on over to his hometown and drop a little of that professorial brilliance on an area that he is actually familiar with and that truly needs it :)


“If something doesn’t change, if we don’t get jobs for these kids, if we don’t change the economic situation, I’m worried that we could be looking at a blood bath,” said the Rev. Corey Brooks, a pastor on the city’s South Side, a mostly African-American area where some of the shootings have been concentrated. “If something doesn’t happen, I fear that we’re potentially looking at one of the worst summers we’ve ever had.”

As of Friday morning, homicides in Chicago were up 52 percent in 2016, compared with the same period a year ago, and shootings had increased by 50 percent, though the pace of violence had slowed in recent weeks, the police said. Only five months into the year, at least 233 people had been killed.

WOW funny to see people hold a grudge against the Japanese..over a war that was Fought 71 years ago ! do you still hate the British and the french or Germans for past wars and battles and gas chambers and other atrocities

of course not they are European
Obama hate is like a drug, some people just can't get enough of it.

It's not like Japan is one of the biggest US allies. Hell I think the favor ability ratings of the US in Japan are higher than here.

First you denied that he said "evil". Now, you're saying...I don't know what... but you are claiming that by "evil", Obama wasn't referring to our dropping the bomb. His whole speech was about nukes, and the people who died at Hiroshima, and the death fell from above, duh duh duh.
First you didn't understand what Obama said, then you didn't understand what I said, now you don't even appear to understand what you're trying to say...

Use of the word hate is like a drug, some people just can't get enough of it.



fixed it :)

if you see theses as equal you dont understand how it changed the world and warfare for ever

Do you think the loss of millions, including a million Americans, was worth the delay of the bomb by a few more years?

How many people would be missing from out networks of family and friends without the bomb?

WOW funny to see people hold a grudge against the Japanese..over a war that was Fought 71 years ago ! do you still hate the British and the french or Germans for past wars and battles and gas chambers and other atrocities

of course not they are European

Do you think the loss of millions, including a million Americans, was worth the delay of the bomb by a few more years?

How many people would be missing from out networks of family and friends without the bomb?

John I have said I dont have an issue with the bomb ending the war I have no doubt it saved many lives ... and returned Men to their families

But I know a field test of a new weapon system when I see one.. the bomb served several different rolls and what a better choice than the less than human Japanese hell our Government did this not to its people of European descent .. But to those who they felt inferior

The Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male, also known as the Tuskegee Syphilis Study or Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment ("Tuskegee" = /tʌsˈkiːɡiː/)[1] was an infamous clinical study conducted between 1932 and 1972 by the U.S. Public Health Service studying the natural progression of untreated syphilis in rural African-American men in Alabama under the guise of receiving free health care from the United States government.[1]

I just have a hard time understanding why after 71 years people can't see things for what they are not how they appeared 71 years ago .. Japan wont apologize for the same reason people here think Obama Apologized or he shouldn't Nationalism and thats what caused WW2

even snopes calls it http://www.snopes.com/obama-apology-hiroshima/

oh boy...

I wonder when and who the new rail gun gets tested on ?
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WDMSO....we know and it is fact that obama did not apologize....we would have never dropped the 2nd bomb if japan surrendered after the first bomb,they were given the chance to surrender.... that is Y we waited till 3 days.... do not blame it on that they were the yellow race.... we were not the first to start testing neutrons etc:, the germans were, they did not have resources to develope the bomb...once President Roosevelt found out he put a rush order for the U.S. to develope it as we all know is the manhatten project and to B the first to have it.

WDMSO....we know and it is fact that obama did not apologize....we would have never dropped the 2nd bomb if japan surrendered after the first bomb,they were given the chance to surrender.... that is Y we waited till 3 days.... do not blame it on that they were the yellow race.... we were not the first to start testing neutrons etc:, the germans were, they did not have resources to develope the bomb...once President Roosevelt found out he put a rush order for the U.S. to develope it as we all know is the manhatten project and to B the first to have it.


I am just saying if you dont think that yellow Race had nothing to do with with dropping the bomb , along with other consideration your willfully blind thats all

BLIND....maybe as I walk across the street with a Q stick, no wonder cars do not stop for me its suppose to B red tipped, I will have to change from the blue chalk to red....:)

UUUUUU only assume the yellow race....we will never know if we would have used it on germany since they surrendered in May 1945 and the bomb was not tested till July 1945....the yellow myth is yours alone....imagine if we lost thousands of military invading the main land of japan and we the public(Americans) new that we had the bomb the uproar that would have caused and maybe congress & Truman thrown out of power

John I have said I dont have an issue with the bomb ending the war I have no doubt it saved many lives ... and returned Men to their families

But I know a field test of a new weapon system when I see one.. the bomb served several different rolls and what a better choice than the less than human Japanese hell our Government did this not to its people of European descent .. But to those who they felt inferior

The Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male, also known as the Tuskegee Syphilis Study or Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment ("Tuskegee" = /tʌsˈkiːɡiː/)[1] was an infamous clinical study conducted between 1932 and 1972 by the U.S. Public Health Service studying the natural progression of untreated syphilis in rural African-American men in Alabama under the guise of receiving free health care from the United States government.[1]

I just have a hard time understanding why after 71 years people can't see things for what they are not how they appeared 71 years ago .. Japan wont apologize for the same reason people here think Obama Apologized or he shouldn't Nationalism and thats what caused WW2

even snopes calls it http://www.snopes.com/obama-apology-hiroshima/

I didn't see an apology either but what I did see was an American President trashing a potential future President on a foreign land . I'm sick of this narrsisis talking crap about past and future Presidents . It's the least Presidential thing he could do .
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I am just saying if you dont think that yellow Race had nothing to do with with dropping the bomb , along with other consideration your willfully blind thats all

Borrowing a verbal twist from Nebe, one might say racism "is overrated." In that the notion of superiority in some form or other exists universally in all cultures, races, and modes of living, it is too convenient to dredge it up, a priori, as the reason for doing bad things to "the other." That it might play some role, maximal or minimal, could be such a common, nearly constant, perceived truism as to be what Spence would call "old news."

But, despite the common thread of "mine is best" in all races, there are variations in the importance and expression of racial superiority in different cultures. "Yellow cultures" such as in China and Japan seem to have had a higher quotient and more severe expression of racial superiority, than have most "white" or "black" cultures. Arabic cultures might also rank higher in perceived self importance and superiority. All three, Chinese, Japanese, and Arabic, are very exclusive in the lands which they own. And all, especially the Japanese and Arabic, have been draconian in punishments they have inflicted on "the other."

How much racism played in our dropping of the bombs on Japan is hard, probably impossible, other than just assuming it existed, to define. Do you have some definitive documentation, some uncovered admission from on high that being "yellow" really mattered? That if Japanese where "white" we wouldn't have dropped the bomb?

We never would have used it on Germany.
"Yellow race" aside, the Japanese culture back then was to fight to the death. Germans were more civilized and would have surrendered sooner or later. Japan though.. Different story. Had we invaded mainland Japan, the losses would have been in the hundreds of thousands.
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The wartime America was clearly racist towards the "Japs". The racism made the decision a little easy. But, racism alone is not a big factor.

I think I have said that several times


http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-real-reason-america-used-nuclear-weapons-against-japan-it-was-not-to-end-the-war-or-save-lives/5308192

The most illuminating perspective, however, comes from top World War II American military leaders. The conventional wisdom that the atomic bomb saved a million lives is so widespread that … most Americans haven’t paused to ponder something rather striking to anyone seriously concerned with the issue: Not only did most top U.S. military leaders think the bombings were unnecessary and unjustified, many were morally offended by what they regarded as the unnecessary destruction of Japanese cities and what were essentially noncombat populations. Moreover, they spoke about it quite openly and publicly.

The US secretary of war, Henry Stimson, told President Truman he was “fearful” that the US air force would have Japan so “bombed out” that the new weapon would not be able “to show its strength”. He later admitted that “no effort was made, and none was seriously considered, to achieve surrender merely in order not to have to use the bomb”. His foreign policy colleagues were eager “to browbeat the Russians with the bomb held rather ostentatiously on our hip”. General Leslie Groves, director of the Manhattan Project that made the bomb, testified: “There was never any illusion on my part that Russia was our enemy, and that the project was conducted on that basis.” The day after Hiroshima was obliterated, President Truman voiced his satisfaction with the “overwhelming success” of “the experiment”.

Weapons test


Sorry men I just dont make this stuff up

Sorry men I just dont make this stuff up



maybe John Pilger does :huh:

coined the verb "to pilger", defined as: to present information in a sensationalist manner to reach a foregone conclusion."


http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017234336

I think assuming racist motivations to dropping the bombs is a little short sighted.

The Germans thought they were the superior race or Master Race

The Japanese referred to themselves as an Empire as they felt they were the Superior people on the planet.

I think the choice for dropping it on them might have something to do with the fact that they attacked us on our soil first. Americans were pretty outraged by that.

Our outrage at Germany didn't hit home until they surrendered and we started to discover all the death camps and what Hitler had been doing.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I think the choice for dropping it on them might have something to do with the fact that they attacked us on our soil first. Americans were pretty outraged by that.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

That's my feeling. Also there was the feeling that they weren't going to give up. I have read recently that some people feel they would have given up shortly but even if they did it still would have cost thousands of American lives.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

And the us government infected black americans.. The Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male,under the guise of receiving free health care

he 40-year study was controversial for reasons related to ethical standards because researchers knowingly failed to treat patients appropriately after the 1940s validation of penicillin as an effective cure for the disease they were studying.

No chance that racism had anything to do with this either...

Seems people still wont accept the smallest possibility that ..wartime America was clearly racist towards the "Japs". not Just angry and That racism made the decision a little easier. and clearly racism alone was not a big factor. for dropping the bomb.
And we only moved 110,000 and 120,000 people of Japanese ancestry who had lived on the Pacific coast. Sixty-two percent of the internees were United States citizens. for security reasons race had nothing to do with it i understand time to move on

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/05/30/479975975/wwii-veteran-who-fought-to-expose-secret-mustard-gas-experiments-dies


Cavell was a 19-year-old Navy recruit fresh out of boot camp in 1945 when a commanding officer offered the chance to participate in a "special program." The officer gave few details, but said volunteers would get two weeks' vacation and an award in exchange for participating.

"We were just a bunch of young kids. We didn't know any better," Cavell told NPR last year.

not a chance this happened either testing Americans But the Abomb was just to end the war nothing more

Another conspiracy

Another conspiracy theorist

Well done,please find out who really shot Kennedy after you reveal we actually took down the world trade.
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Seems people still wont accept the smallest possibility that ..wartime America was clearly racist towards the "Japs".


Japanese is not a race.....it's people who live in Japan.

American isn't a race, correct.

The term "racist" has completely lost it meaning from over/mis-use.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Japanese is not a race.....it's people who live in Japan.

American isn't a race, correct.

The term "racist" has completely lost it meaning from over/mis-use.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device


Only if your looking at by todays Standards in the 40's it was different

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2010/01/21/race-and-the-census-the-%E2%80%9Cnegro%E2%80%9D-controversy/

taking in the late 1930 till 1950's

There was an attempt in this census only to obtain figures for “Mex” (Mexicans), who were defined as “all persons born in Mexico, or having parents born in Mexico, who were not definitely White, Negro, Indian, Chinese, or Japanese.”

In 1940, the only change was the elimination of the “Mex” category, and Mexicans “were to be listed as White unless they were definitely Indian or some race other than White.”

In 1950, the census form listed the following categories: “White (W), Negro (Neg), American Indian (Ind), Japanese (Jap), Chinese (Chi), Filipino (Fil),” and other races to be spelled out. Note that the form did not contain the term “Black.”

https://artifactsjournal.missouri.edu/2012/03/wwii-propaganda-the-influence-of-racism/

another conspiracy theory article

here are a few others

Asbestos is really safe
There are mountains of scientific evidence that asbestos is extremely dangerous to humans. It causes cancer and kills more than 12,000 people every year.

Trump, however, considers the substance a safe and effective fire retardant.

There is no drought in California
Donald Trump told an audience in Fresno that “there is no drought” in California. According to Trump, the state has plenty of water but it’s being held hostage by environmentalists in government. The idea that the government is engineering the drought was popularized by professional conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones.
California, in fact, is facing a severe drought of historic proportions that covers nearly 95% of the state.

Climate change a hoax invented by the Chinese
Donald Trump has repeatedly called climate change a hoax, often implicating the Chinese.The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive.

This actually belongs in Slips Monsanto thread,pay attention.

Of course it is Trumps fault,next thing you know he will be stealing gifts from the White House. Oh,wait a sec...
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I think I'm starting to understand :conf:

The Japanese got what there actions caused to happen. Sneak attack, killing POWS, murdering civilians, Bonzai attacks, a no surrender culture and a county (US) sick of war and ready to nuke them. So be it.

Mecca is next.
#gotrump


;)
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

The wartime America was clearly racist towards the "Japs". The racism made the decision a little easy. But, racism alone is not a big factor.

I think I have said that several times

Why say it at all? Since just about everybody else on the planet (except you apparently) has some inherent notion of superiority regarding their "race" or culture or team or neighborhood or country or ethnicity or style of life or diet or point of view, or etc., or etc., or etc., and since "race" according to the article you posted can mean country of origin, or nationality, or ethnicity, or color, or other (take your pick--no doubt it will soon become a matter of self-identification in an infinite variation of transrace as in transgender by which you can define your "race" by preferred genotype, phenotype, social type, IQ type, athletic type, weight type, or any preference type that you desire), how then can "race," ergo "racism" not be a factor, no matter how little, in any relation to "the other"?

That "racism" (especially in the expanding limits of definition) is always lurking in the muck of human consciousness, its distinction as a relevant motivator has to be more than that it exists. You can be racist against Japanese, but have no desire to kill them. You can even love or admire them. (All of the "white" generals in your article said that it was unnecessary or immoral to drop the bomb, even though being white no doubt made them racist). I think the vast residuum of latent "racism," in the spectrum of human relations, is harmless. It can be a motivation to kill, but that requires more than that it exists.

Mentioning it as a factor in dropping the bomb is unnecessary unless you have an unexpressed agenda. Did racism exist when the Japanese tortured and beheaded Americans in front of the other American prisoners? The Japanese would have to have been exceptional to not have racist impulses. But is that why they did it? That line of thinking implies all wars, murders, harms done against "the other" are motivated by "racism." Granted, we have progressed to the understanding in the U.S. that if "white" people do it, it's racism. But if "the other" does it, it apparently isn't racism.

Peculiar also in the article you posted that "yellow" folks can have various racial descriptions such as Chinese, Japanese, Korean, but "white" folks don't have French, English, Polish, etc. as racial identifiers. There is something "racist" about that. Or its just sloppy.
As TDF said, the term "racism" (as well as "race") has been so overused and misused that it has lost meaning.

As TDF said, the term "racism" (as well as "race") has been so overused and misused that it has lost meaning.




you can add 'hate" the the list of overused and abused to the point that it has lost meaning....

I think we already have "transrace" as an option and in a high profile way :heybaby:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/16/us/washington-rachel-dolezal-naacp/

I am just saying if you dont think that yellow Race had nothing to do with with dropping the bomb , along with other consideration your willfully blind thats all

Good god. There was only one nation we were at war with at the time, and they were still brutalizing folks in the lands they were occupying. That's why we dropped the bomb on them. There were no caucasians around that we were at war with at the time, as an alternative.

If you want to claim that the fact that they weren't like us, made the decision easier? That may well be true.

WDMSO, let me ask you this...if Japan surrendered before we dropped the first bomb, do yo uhtink we would have still bombed them?

And the us government infected black americans..

And that was despicable. But that's not the same thing as dropping th ebomb on a brutal, bloodthirsty enemy, who made it obvious that they had no intention of quitting, ever.

There is zero moral equivalence between these 2 things. Zip. Ask the Chinese who were being raped and eaten.

Do you have some definitive documentation, some uncovered admission from on high that being "yellow" really mattered? That if Japanese where "white" we wouldn't have dropped the bomb?

In hi smind, he has the evidence. They w. ere Asian. we bombed them. Therefore, we don't like Asians.

Of course, another (sensible) explanation is this...once the bomb was available, we weren't at war with anyone alse at the time, so there was no compelling reason to drop the bomb on, say, Norway

WDMSO, you are assuming that racism fueled our ill will towards the Japanese in WWII. If that's true, why were we so committed to helping those most victimized by Japanese acts, like the Chinese and the Phillipinos? If there was widespread racism towards Asians, why did we care so much about helping those people?

We despised the Japanese because (1) they attacked us, and (2) their behavior was impossible for Americans to fathom. On the German side, while the Nazis were atrocious, the average German soldiers performed honorably (with a small number of exceptions like Malmady). Not so with the Japanese - their barbaric savagery toward everyone else, their fanatical refusal to surrender, their willingness to engage in mass suicide - they might as well have come from another planet.

Now...if you can find a nation of caucasians that behaved like the Japanese, whom we didn't despise the way we despised the Japanese, then you might be on to something with your claims of racism.

We were at war. And back then, political correctness wasn't at the forefront of everyone's minds, so yes, there was an effort to portray them as less than human. I say we did that because of the way they were acting. You say we did it because of racism. Well, we didn't set out to destroy the people of any of the other Asian nations, in fact, many Americans dies trying to protect the citizens of Asian nations. So I don't see hwo you can conclude that we had ill will towards anyone other than the ones who helped start and perpetuate the worst war this planet has ever seen.

This thread should have been closed when Buck and I agreed.

WOW you guys love cherry picking an argument.. your worried about
Obama being an Apologist in chief yet many have the denial badge of honor and choose only to read what isn't there ....


I have clearly stated I have no issues with the bomb being Dropped..:wall:

I also stated Racism made it easier in the decision making to drop the bomb not the only reason .. and have used example after example to point this out .. but like the whole OP it is based on something that wasn't said , so why should I expect anything less

An many think that Racism didn't exist in 1940 against black or the Japanese I guess ?.. why else should such effort be made to disprove
my assertion with a simple Americas were Mad at the Japs they attacked us 1st were brutal Bla Bla Bla , as were the germans the russians and USA... Oh and I mention race because I have an Agenda thats a good one ....

Since when Has seeing an issue in it totality = Agenda

or is only when people dont like the outcome of the big picture

Trump comes to mind when the issue is looked at in its totality = media Agenda

But what I don’t want is, when I raise millions of dollars, have people say, like this sleazy guy right over here from ABC,” Trump said, pointing to Llamas. “He’s a sleaze in my book. You’re a sleaze because you know the facts and you know the facts well.”

WOW you guys love cherry picking an argument.. your worried about
Obama being an Apologist in chief yet many have the denial badge of honor and choose only to read what isn't there ....


I have clearly stated I have no issues with the bomb being Dropped..:wall:

I also stated Racism made it easier in the decision making to drop the bomb not the only reason .. and have used example after example to point this out .. but like the whole OP it is based on something that wasn't said , so why should I expect anything less

An many think that Racism didn't exist in 1940 against black or the Japanese I guess ?.. why else should such effort be made to disprove
my assertion with a simple Americas were Mad at the Japs they attacked us 1st were brutal Bla Bla Bla , as were the germans the russians and USA... Oh and I mention race because I have an Agenda thats a good one ....

Since when Has seeing an issue in it totality = Agenda

or is only when people dont like the outcome of the big picture

Trump comes to mind when the issue is looked at in its totality = media Agenda

But what I don’t want is, when I raise millions of dollars, have people say, like this sleazy guy right over here from ABC,” Trump said, pointing to Llamas. “He’s a sleaze in my book. You’re a sleaze because you know the facts and you know the facts well.”

"An many think that Racism didn't exist in 1940 "

Who the heck said THAT? Now who is the one responding to something that wasn't ever said? Racism was rampant back then (led by Democrats, but I digress).

"Americas were Mad at the Japs they attacked us 1st were brutal Bla Bla Bla "

Yes, let's dismiss the atrocities committed by the Japanese as "blah blah blah".

"the whole OP it is based on something that wasn't said "

I will make this really, really simple for you. Please go to my first post, and tell us exactly where I am responding to something that wasn't said. I pasted an exact quote from Obama, and then made a logical, compelling case for why it was a horrendous thing for him to say.

And that was despicable. But that's not the same thing as dropping th ebomb on a brutal, bloodthirsty enemy, who made it obvious that they had no intention of quitting, ever.

There is zero moral equivalence between these 2 things. Zip. Ask the Chinese who were being raped and eaten.


Again you miss the point it was about what the government told the people as opposed to what they where really Doing !!!! Are you suggesting Race had nothing to do with giving those black americans syphilis or that race did never came up when talking if we should or shouldn't drop the bomb ..

like the Mustard gas experiments on troops in 1945 .. and to my point the bomb was a weapons test and a means to end the War not just for the sole reason to end the War as the narrative in 1945 from Our Government would suggest

you dont see a pattern ?

"An many think that Racism didn't exist in 1940 "

Who the heck said THAT? Now who is the one responding to something that wasn't ever said? Racism was rampant back then (led by Democrats, but I digress).

"Americas were Mad at the Japs they attacked us 1st were brutal Bla Bla Bla "

Yes, let's dismiss the atrocities committed by the Japanese as "blah blah blah".

"the whole OP it is based on something that wasn't said "

I will make this really, really simple for you. Please go to my first post, and tell us exactly where I am responding to something that wasn't said. I pasted an exact quote from Obama, and then made a logical, compelling case for why it was a horrendous thing for him to say.

No you made up your own narrative.. Evil showed up 1 time in the Speech ,,,, no different then this quote

I think WDMSO, you are assuming that racism fueled our ill will towards the Japanese in WWII. or
In hi smind, he has the evidence. They w. ere Asian. we bombed them. Therefore, we don't like Asians.

Again I never said any of those things but then you made a logical, compelling case saying thats what I Said ...another pattern emerges

No you made up your own narrative.. Evil showed up 1 time in the Speech ,,,,

Oh, I see..first you said I responded to something that wasn't said. Now you are saying that I responded to something that was said "once" in his speech. I never claimed he said it repeatedly. Therefore I didn't make anything up. Tell me WDMSO, how many times does he need to say it, before you give me your blessing to be offended by it?

Once is enough. When one looks at what took place in WWII, it's actually fairly simple to distinguish between the good guys and the bad guys. Most idiots are capable of pulling that off. Not our POTUS!! Hooray!

Tell the Chinese and the Philipinos that it was "evil" for us to drop the bomb, and thus liberate them from the Japanese.

[QUOTE=wdmso;1101609]I also stated Racism made it easier in the decision making to drop the bomb

Easier? You mean like the decision wasn't easy enough so racism made it so? I would think the decision was not easy at all, and that racism would not make it any easier. Unless you're talking about some foaming at the mouth racism which is so much a part of one's psyche that it is satisfied by slaughter. Whatever latent racism existed in the minds of those making the decision, I don't think it was that instrumental in making the decision. If it was, then you may have some point in bringing it up. But, in order to throw that motivation into the mix, you need more evidence that was the case, not just some aside to make a more total case.

not the only reason .. and have used example after example to point this out ..

Was it a relevant reason at all? What was the relevance? Your examples were not comparable to dropping the bomb.

An many think that Racism didn't exist in 1940 against black or the Japanese I guess ?

Racism existed in 1940, and probably since the beginning of race consciousness, and still today. And it existed in the Japanese minds, and black minds as well. Do you know of some race that is free of racism. Is your point that racism is bad?

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I think WDMSO, you are assuming that racism fueled our ill will towards the Japanese in WWII. [/QUOTE]




Again I never said any of those things





wartime America was clearly racist towards the "Japs".


getting tough to keep up :jester:

https://www.facebook.com/awakenwithjp/videos/1325301567485702/

Oh, I see..first you said I responded to something that wasn't said. Now you are saying that I responded to something that was said "once" in his speech. I never claimed he said it repeatedly. Therefore I didn't make anything up. Tell me WDMSO, how many times does he need to say it, before you give me your blessing to be offended by it?

Once is enough. When one looks at what took place in WWII, it's actually fairly simple to distinguish between the good guys and the bad guys. Most idiots are capable of pulling that off. Not our POTUS!! Hooray!

Tell the Chinese and the Philipinos that it was
"evil" for us to drop the bomb,and thus liberate them from the Japanese.

We may not be able to eliminate man’s capacity to do evil

that what was said..
it is not what you imagination has told us he
said .. which was its "evil" for us to drop the bomb," not much different then saying I think racism was the only reason we dropped the Bomb:bl:

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I think WDMSO, you are assuming that racism fueled our ill will towards the Japanese in WWII.









getting tough to keep up :jester:[/QUOTE]

seems I am not the one having trouble keeping up...
ask the Sixty-two percent of the internees were United States citizens. what they felt I am sure it wasn't just i'll will because of pearl harbor

Again you miss the point it was about what the government told the people as opposed to what they where really Doing !!!!

It seems you miss that point a lot. As in what is the Federal government really doing when it forces suburbs to "rezone." Or when it creates so-called "net neutrality." Or what Obama Care's true end game is, or even what it does, what it costs, and how it helps to transform a free market society into a government controlled one rather than merely to provide health insurance to those who don't have it. You seem to miss the point of what the Federal government really wishes to accomplish when it passes legislation and creates regulations with benevolent sounding titles which imply the opposite of the true nature of those regulations.

And you seem to totally miss the point of the Progressive notion of a living, breathing, Constitution which must be subject to Judges so called "interpretation" based on their personal opinions of "justice" all the while pretending that they really are abiding by the Constitution which they are actually turning upside down. You are quite content with their intended destruction of the original constitutional order centered on individual unalienable rights protected by separation of powers. And the transformation of it into a government centered bureaucracy which decides what rights we have, how the economy must function, and intrudes into every aspect of our lives. And this chameleon behavior has been documented and even admitted to by some of them. So we don't have to just conjecture or say "if you don't think it's really so you're willfully blind."

You said I had an apocalyptic view when I pointed out, as you say, "what the government told the people as opposed to what they where really Doing !!!!" in the above instances. Is my view any more apocalyptic than yours re this bomb thing?


Are you suggesting Race had nothing to do with giving those black americans syphilis or that race did never came up when talking if we should or shouldn't drop the bomb ..

Blacks were not given syphilis in the Tuskegee experiment. They already had it. And at the time there was no known reliable cure. And I don't know if race was discussed in the formation of that experiment. Certainly, black doctors, nurses, and administrators were involved and were in on the discussion. It became discredited years after when penicillin was discovered as a reliable cure, but the participants were not given it. And the experiment was investigated, documented, exposed, and shut down.

And I don't know if race came up in discussing whether or not to drop the bomb. Has the government's supposed racism been documented. Have there been any admissions of dropping the bomb made easier because it targeted yellow people?
Do you know? Or are you assuming that since Americans were racist toward Japanese they must surely have brought up race and how that would make it OK to drop the bomb. Abe Lincoln was a racist by today's standards. Is that why he wanted to stop the spread of slavery and even abolish it. And caused over half a million, mostly white men, to be killed to free the slaves in the rebellious slave States? Would Lincoln, the racist, have dropped the bomb?

like the Mustard gas experiments on troops in 1945 .. and to my point the bomb was a weapons test and a means to end the War not just for the sole reason to end the War as the narrative in 1945 from Our Government would suggest

you dont see a pattern ?

"I have clearly stated I have no issues with the bomb being Dropped.."
"racism alone is not a big factor."

I see a pattern in your above quotes intertwined with the rest of your narrative in this thread. It's a rather incoherent one designed, it seems, to expose government fakery, even though you don't disapprove of what it did, you want to expose its lying about it. Or expose half truths. That's nice. But when you have to pile on with a personal assumption under the guise of something that is supposedly so self evident that we must be willfully blind to question it, you weaken your argument rather than strengthening it with an unsubstantiated tidbit which you think fleshes out the total reasons for dropping the bomb.

We may not be able to eliminate man’s capacity to do evil

that what was said..
it is not what you imagination has told us he
said .. which was its "evil" for us to drop the bomb," not much different then saying I think racism was the only reason we dropped the Bomb:bl:

"We may not be able to eliminate man’s capacity to do evil

that what was said.. "

No. He said "we shall not repeat the evil". That's not my imagination, it is an exact quote. You may not like it, but it's what the man said.

"We may not be able to eliminate man’s capacity to do evil

that what was said.. "

No. He said "we shall not repeat the evil". That's not my imagination, it is an exact quote. You may not like it, but it's what the man said.
Jim, he did not say that. You've been conned by fake news. Read my previous post...

Jim, he did not say that. You've been conned by fake news. Read my previous post...


Those right-wing nuts at The Huffington Post reported that Obama used the phrase "we shall not repeat the evil". Looks like you are 100% correct, in that he didn't say it. I got it from The Huffington Ppost, not from Glenn Beck.

Here is a text of the speech from the Washington Post, as liberal as it gets...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/text-of-obamas-speech-at-hiroshima-peace-memorial-park/2016/05/27/49048f6c-240f-11e6-b944-52f7b1793dae_story.html

Some notable comments...

"It is not the fact of war that sets Hiroshima apart. Artifacts tell us that violent conflict appeared with the very first man. Our early ancestors, having learned to make blades from flint and spears from wood, used these tools not just for hunting but against their own kind. On every continent, the history of civilization is filled with war"

In other words, our idiot-in-chief is saying that there was nothing unique or extraordinary about Japan's role in WWII. Tell that to the Chinese, or the captured American flyers (the ones that were not eaten, I mean).

"Every great religion promises a pathway to love and peace and righteousness. And yet no religion has been spared from believers who have claimed their faith as a license to kill."

Yeah, yeah, yeah...there's no difference between Christianity and Islam, or between Christianity and the worship of Emperor Hirohito, we get it...

"Those who died, they are like us"

Wrong. Those who died at Hiroshima, were prepared to fight to the death of their last toddler, and for what? So their country could continue its barbaric conquest of murder, rape, and cannibalism. If they were "like us", they wouldn't have embarked on a goal of global genocide. That was the whole problem...they weren't like us, not at all.

"death fell from the sky "

Peace and freedom also fell from the sky. He seems to have failed to mention that part.

Where in the speech did Obama say, "if you engage on a global quest of genocide, you will be brought to your knees, and you will get exactly what's coming to you?" Granted, many innocents got caught up in that. But the blame lies with the Japanese, not with us.

Jim, he did not say that. You've been conned by fake news. Read my previous post...

not exactly...it was originally reported by UPI(fake news) that he said this, later corrected that it was the translation on the monument


An earlier version of this story mistakenly attributed a quote to Obama. "Let all the souls here rest in peace, for we shall not repeat the evil" is the English translation of the epitaph from the Hiroshima memorial. It was not part of Obama's speech.

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Looks like you are 100% correct, in that he didn't say it.
You could have stopped here.

"I have clearly stated I have no issues with the bomb being Dropped.."
"racism alone is not a big factor."

I see a pattern in your above quotes intertwined with the rest of your narrative in this thread. It's a rather incoherent one designed, it seems, to expose government fakery, even though you don't disapprove of what it did, you want to expose its lying about it. Or expose half truths. That's nice. But when you have to pile on with a personal assumption under the guise of something that is supposedly so self evident that we must be willfully blind to question it, you weaken your argument rather than strengthening it with an unsubstantiated tidbit which you think fleshes out the total reasons for dropping the bomb.

I love your personal assumption that reflects how you feel and no way represents what I said. total reasons . that pattern holds well here on many topics
from Climate change Governments taking guns to race relations

from Climate change Governments taking guns to race relations


It seems to me that UUUUUUU RRRRR over whemled about race I do not notice others talking about race relations of others....if UUUUUU mentioned a lot of rhetoric on issues I could agree......:)

It seems to me that UUUUUUU RRRRR over whemled about race I do not notice others talking about race relations of others....if UUUUUU mentioned a lot of rhetoric on issues I could agree......:)

your correct many dont speak about it because they dont thinks theses issues exist.or have impact.. but spend post after post insisting it not in the realm of possibilities that it (race ) influences anything past present or future.. thats just my take on things

No, we just don't run around like Oprah going "that's a race issue, and that's a race issue, Everything's a race issue"

It's getting rather tiresome....
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I was thinking spike lee
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No, we just don't run around like Oprah going "that's a race issue, and that's a race issue, Everything's a race issue"

It's getting rather tiresome....
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I can see it getting tiresome to those it effects directly... white folk not so much their experience is very very different they only need to hear about it and they are inconvenienced and tired

So if not everything can be labeled a race issue from blacks the same rule applies to whites.. not everything isn't a race issues..

its called being a moderate but there are not many of us

not everything isn't a race issues..



priceless :)

I don't think the bombs were a weapons test, but more of a message to the world, especially Russia that we were now masters of the universe.
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I can see it getting tiresome to those it effects directly... white folk not so much their experience is very very different they only need to hear about it and they are inconvenienced and tired


We're only inconvenienced and tired when it's not a real case of racism.....we prefer to save the outrage for when it's really happening.

If a cop pulls over a Black man he's accused of Racial Profiling.

If a person offers a Japanese guy a glass of Sake' he's accused of Racial Stereotyping.

Sports Team logos are Racially Insensitive and a White Girl with Dreadlocks is accused of Racial Appropriation.

But we obviously can't see the outrage of this because we are blinded by our White Privilege :rolleyes:

Tell me should we be outraged by this......or is this really not a case of a racist agenda...

http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=6990

"Students who refused to listen to or join their outbursts were shouted down:“Stand the f*** up!” “You filthy racist white piece of s***!” Men and women alike were pushed and shoved by the group.

“If we can’t have it, shut it down!” they cried. Another woman was pinned to a wall by protesters who unleashed their insults, shouting “filthy white b****!” in her face."

Oh that's right.....only those who are blinded by their White Privilege can be racists....

By the way......none of these students were punished.....that display was absolutely sickening.....
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I can see it getting tiresome to those it effects directly... white folk not so much their experience is very very different they only need to hear about it and they are inconvenienced and tired

So if not everything can be labeled a race issue from blacks the same rule applies to whites.. not everything isn't a race issues..

its called being a moderate but there are not many of us

Moderate....?
You, Spike,Oprah,Sharpton, Hillary

Being informed does not make one a moderate. Pretending you have any idea what it is like to be anything other than a middle aged white man does not make you a moderate. Keep up the good fight,your brothers need you,and all of your misguided good intentions.
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not exactly...it was originally reported by UPI(fake news) that he said this, later corrected that it was the translation on the monument


An earlier version of this story mistakenly attributed a quote to Obama. "Let all the souls here rest in peace, for we shall not repeat the evil" is the English translation of the epitaph from the Hiroshima memorial. It was not part of Obama's speech.

Like Us on Facebook for more stories from UPI.com

Correct, it's the epitaph at the Heroshima memorial. Where Obama laid a wreath, which necessarily means he endorses what it says.

Today is the anniversary of D-day. Maybe Obama will say "let us remember the innocent victims of the Panzer divisions and the Luftwaffe, who were minding their own business, throwing frisbees and grilling some bratwursts at Omaha Beach, when DEATH emerged from the Higgins boats and rained fire and lead on the sunbathing Germans. Our world has known war since man first learned to talk, therefore what the Germans were doing in WWII is no different than what any other country has ever done. So who are we to sit in judgement of others."

We have a commander-in-chief, who cannot correctly discern the good guys from the bad guys, in WWII of all conflicts. There is nothing in the entire historical record simpler than that, and he couldn't do it.

Obama - always wrong, yet never in doubt.