View Full Version : Too many running guides??

11-24-2016, 07:51 AM
What's your opinion on having too many runners. For me on an average rod, 4 -6. Depends on the rod action, blank construction . With the number of high blanks being fished especially on the rocks, high sticking becomes an issue. More guides , better load distribution? More guides keep line flow directed?

11-24-2016, 09:10 AM
I like the new concept layout

My first custom lami has 7 or 8 LC running guides I think, never had an issue. Loads great and still light weight

Only issue is relining in the surf if I have to cut it at the spool

I'm a fan of 4-6 running guides, most of my custom rods are 9-11'
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

11-24-2016, 08:45 PM
My thoughts too Chris on re lining. All my rods have #10 runners to accommodate tieing the leader first then stringing thru the guides with a clip. 5-6 runners on most 10 &11'. I have an 10' Infinity which is my sand rod w/a150 in which I'm building with RV transition guides and # 8 size runners. So far liking the static load w/6 runners. Test casting will give me more feedback on line control. Haven't decided yet on 20 lbFL or 30lb braid though which may change my runner size.

ed morini
11-25-2016, 06:45 AM
I have been thinking about this alot lately and have come to the conclusion that certainly' the number of guides is imortant in the load distribution but at some point no number of guides will prevent blank failure when the blank becomes over stressed.

The Lami GSB series is known for its parobolic loading, particularly the 120 1l and 1m. These blanks will take a beating and in their early stages of production replicated the fiberglass blanks they replaced. They could be built as the glass blanks were, without to much trouble with breaking. Us old guys built them the same way and they performed as expected. After 2005, I think the resins were "improved" and the action changed calling for more guides to help the tip stress. I began noticing more broken tips, which results from high sticking, which was normal for glass rods. I never promoted high sticking because I felt the leverage advantage went to the fish in that case.
Today, I think you do what your experience has led you to believe is the best placement and number. There are no concrete answers because the are so many different blank builds, materials and actions. With the extemely fast tips of today, I think that once the tip reaches the limit of its flex, that's it, beyond yeilds failure. Do the number of guides prevent the break, I don't think so, but they help delay. And for me we are right back where we started. That make this interesting.

11-25-2016, 09:10 AM
The 10-11 foot rods I have built with rapid choke layouts use 6-7 size 8 runners. They will not pass knots well so I use a low profile FG-knot with a 6-8 foot leader. Even then I notice premature braid wear about 8-10" from the knot which I think reflects guide wrapping (probably at the choke guide or tip). Even size 8's are probably large for ideal runners (if I used a shorter leader outside the guides I'd use DB guides and more of them) and I don't see a point in using 10's.

I doubt that increased numbers of runners does that much to prevent blank failure........which is more a function of taper. The faster action the rod the more likely it is to fail when highsticked since the stress of the sharp bend is focused along a shorter distance.

In my experience, rods built with small guide systems do not cast any significant distance further than traditional builds. I do, however, strongly believe that rods with small, light guide systems are dramatically more responsive and fun to fish.

ed morini
11-25-2016, 01:25 PM
I think you can "help a blank" with a fast tip buy using double foot guides as a running system. The LC series can accomplish this with minimal added weight but I think there is a a loss of action due to the double foot scenario, causing a loss of casting distance. The distance, in my mind, would be negliable but the tip would have some measure of protection.

Eeling rods have softer tips and deeper bends so you can use fewer guides without a problem as casting distance is not a consideration,

I like the use of #8 guides when I can but have built some with 10's when weedy or mung areas are easier to clear them

12-03-2016, 04:39 PM
I use 4-6 on rods 10-11'. My layouts are all same essentially with some changes depending on reel or length. I see no reason for more than that. I do have some with single foots (a 10' VT 1-3oz). The tip is very light and responsive with the singles.

12-03-2016, 06:13 PM
I will be doing a rapid choke design and it looks like 7 runners. I may use a couple of KB single foots and KT's for the runners . I have KL-H in mind but waiting to see if Fuji make the RV in SS/ alconite. 2 RV and a K12M ti/alconite >100.00. Never built a full layout single foot surf rod but it's a beach rod (no rock). I did my last 2 rods double foot transitions and KT's to the tip. like the crispness and light weight.

ed morini
12-04-2016, 09:44 AM
I like your thinking concerning the single foot guides, although in my builds I worry about "Canal Trips" with single foot. I am currently doing 2 ssb 108 3M old school blanks one spinning the other conventional and will be using single foot with a rapid reduction set up. I have this in double foot conventional for smaller eeling. I also hace 2 SSU 120 1mh blanks and 2 ssb1362f for pencils and I am weighing options on these blanks.

12-04-2016, 08:17 PM
The last 2 beach rods were a combo of singles and double ( stripper guide) . KL 25, K 16 AND K 10' TO BMGAT 12 TIP. This one I'm thinking outside the box. It will be a good lesson for me. I didn't need to do a lock wrap on the K runners but don't know if the KL-H needs a lock wrap.

ed morini
12-05-2016, 07:34 AM
I have adopted the practice of always using a lock wrap on single foot guides, it does not take that much extra work and I do not have to repair a pulled guide,even though the new designs have an altered foot decigns that look like they would be pretty secure. I do mainly surf oriented rods and no matter how much I try to inform the user on the blanks' use there are always those that push the envelope. For my personal stuff, I experiment. I do have several customers that I have recommended using a hand line for fishing.or stick with the old lami 120 15m

12-05-2016, 07:17 PM
Yes Ed I hear you on customers abusing their rods, especially the high designs. Och! The K have the slip in the foot below the ring frame allowing epoxy to flow up front of guide forming an epoxy gusset. Never an issue throwing heavy braid or a slim lnow. If I decide to use the KL-KL-H guides a lo k will be used. The foot is solid and allowable to tie a lock . Since I have time for my own build I will test the KL guides.

12-06-2016, 02:44 PM
I am currently doing 2 ssb 108 3M old school blanks one spinning the other conventional and ...


You have me confused here. Old style makes me thing of the fiberglass mooching blank. I don't see a Super Surf listed as a 1083, only a 1081.

I am building a mooching blank with single foot Minima guides. It's actually a rebuild of an old S-glass blank. I am really looking forward to using it with the lightened load of guides on it's length.

ed morini
12-07-2016, 08:35 AM
I think the confusion stems from the blank designation... ssb was the old Lamiglas designation for s-glass, so its read as s-glass surf blank, these were not the tradtional Lami yellow blanks but were chestnut (or shades thereof).
Lamiglass had two fiberglass 108 3m blanks if I remember correctly, a Mb 108 3m which was a mooching blank rated 1-3 and a BT 108 3M which was a boat and trolling blank which was a line rated blank and if memory serve had a larger tip and butt diameter. The MB 108 3m (fiberglass) rated for 1-3 oz. make a great surk blank and are tough blanks, the BT made a heavier stick and could handle heavier weights. Lamiglas for awhile, and I forget when the y discontinued them, had a line of s-glass that mirrored some of their fiberglass surf blanks. I have always thought the ssb blanks were a cut above and the ssb 136 2f my favorite pencil blank. Graphite killed the series, although I notice, Rod Geeks has a series of s-glass blanks.
I think your guide selection should prove to be quite effective on this blank.


ed morini
12-07-2016, 08:39 AM
On another matter, although I have a stach of Gudebrod nylon, what are you guys using. Other than maderia for the limited crosswraps I've done, I have been sing the Gudebrod, any suggestions for an old guy.


12-07-2016, 12:35 PM
Pac bay or pro wrap. seems ok. actually my last purchased NCP royal Blue , Gudebrod sucked. Needed 3 coats to cover the fuzz up. put the first coat on and instant fuzz. Had this addressed here and others had quality control issues with materials used in the final days. Never any problems ever till that spool. I have thread 40 yrs. old and still use w/o issues.

ed morini
12-07-2016, 04:14 PM
Thanks for the reply. Istill have quite a few spools of old Gudebrod (30yrs) but was just wondering about its replacement.