Thought his testimony was good and honest and enlightening for what could be said in open (clearly would love classified transcript but...).

Short version: Trump is a tool and a fool. Suggested with firmness to drop. As someone I follow (former Navy Captain( stated, in mil/fgov organization "I think" and "I'd like" are more than suggestions but guidance to follow.

That said, not sure if this is obstruction. Interesting he blew the NYT reporting out of the water. And Trump is not the subject of an investigation in the unclass testimony, but some of his "satellites" may be.

Comey admits he is leak, desperation? Proper? He sounded political the way he defended Hillary and the Dems.
Trump may foolish but is no fool, he did not collude with Russians so left politicians can stop their squawking now.
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Comey admits he is leak, desperation? Proper? He sounded political the way he defended Hillary and the Dems.
Trump may foolish but is no fool, he did not collude with Russians so left politicians can stop their squawking now.
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Clearly a partisan . Trumps instinks for asking his loyalty and firing him proved right .
Comey perhaps the weakest FBI director ever
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He was afraid of being murdered by Clinton
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Thought his testimony was good and honest and enlightening for what could be said in open (clearly would love classified transcript but...).

Short version: Trump is a tool and a fool. Suggested with firmness to drop. As someone I follow (former Navy Captain( stated, in mil/fgov organization "I think" and "I'd like" are more than suggestions but guidance to follow.

That said, not sure if this is obstruction. Interesting he blew the NYT reporting out of the water. And Trump is not the subject of an investigation in the unclass testimony, but some of his "satellites" may be.

Unlike the others I agree with you. The Pres. says "I hope" - you do it. But doubt it is obstruction.

Believe he said he knew Trump would lie. Another bad day for Trump (although it got off the front page how he did more illegal stuff w/his charity and how they basically took $ away from kids w/cancer).

Another bad day for Trump.



?...seems Trump was exonerated for many of the things the left has been dogging him about.....

Trump has an odd way of turning bad days and awful moments into "covfefe bigly"

he will continue to play the left and the left will continue to overreact to everything to the point of having less credibility than Trump...which is an impressive feat :kewl:

Maybe they should have another hearing on Bengahzi instead of examining all the $ paid to Trump assoc and the contacts that they constantly lie about.

My favorite line from his lawyer was "the President is not a liar". Must have a different definition than most not partisian Americans.

Trump would have rather have loyalty than honesty and the Constitution.

Maybe they should have another hearing on Bengahzi instead of examining all the $ paid to Trump assoc and the contacts that they constantly lie about.

My favorite line from his lawyer was "the President is not a liar". Must have a different definition than most not partisian Americans.

Trump would have rather have loyalty than honesty and the Constitution.

probably depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is....:kewl:

At what point does a government abuse whistle blower become a leak and a traitor?

Pretty sure if you do something by the book, you don't have to worry about either.

Applies to both parties equally really.
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Maybe they should have another hearing on Bengahzi instead of examining all the $ paid to Trump assoc and the contacts that they constantly lie about.

My favorite line from his lawyer was "the President is not a liar". Must have a different definition than most not partisian Americans.

Trump would have rather have loyalty than honesty and the Constitution.

"Double standard " ... applies to your every response
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"Double standard " ... applies to your every response
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Point them out by pulling up some quotes?

I've asked you to do that repeatedly, yet you never do.

Pathetic.

how he did more illegal stuff w/his charity and how they basically took $ away from kids w/cancer).

I saw a piece that said if Trump charities paid Trump Corp to use their golf resorts, that's not necessarily illegal, but man doe it appear ugly. Same article said that the Trump charity (I presume you're talking about the Foundation that gives money to St Jude's Childrens Hospital) has a fairly admirable expense ratio. But it sure looks gross if that money found its way to him. Sort of like someone using the Clinton Foundation for personal gain.

It seems morally bankrupt, like other things he has done. I hope he chooses not to run in 20.

Point them out by pulling up some quotes?

I've asked you to do that repeatedly, yet you never do.

Pathetic.

You repeatedly made excuses for the Clinton foundation.

Does it bother you that Loretta Lynch clearly worked with the Clinton campaign to minimize the damage from an FBI investigation ?
Hillary Clinton repeatedly lied. "I never destroyed any emails, " "I never sent classified emails " etc. etc ......
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I saw a piece that said if Trump charities paid Trump Corp to use their golf resorts, that's not necessarily illegal, but man doe it appear ugly. Same article said that the Trump charity (I presume you're talking about the Foundation that gives money to St Jude's Childrens Hospital) has a fairly admirable expense ratio. But it sure looks gross if that money found its way to him. Sort of like someone using the Clinton Foundation for personal gain.

It seems morally bankrupt, like other things he has done. I hope he chooses not to run in 20.

The Trump charity gave money to the son's charity/fund raiser - that is illegal. And then the same amount was given back to the golf course. Expenses went way up beyond was was normal for a golf outing - not illegal unless they found they padded the expenses.

You repeatedly made excuses for the Clinton foundation. No, I didn't. That is a lie - so pull up the "repeated" posts (bc that implies constantly/many postings). I commented but show me the many posts where I made "repeated excuses" or the "double standard" where I criticized the $ given to Ivanka's charity. Bc w/o comments on another charity there is no double standard - keep trying. (unless you don't even know what a "double standard" is.)

Does it bother you that Loretta Lynch clearly worked with the Clinton campaign to minimize the damage from an FBI investigation ?What does that have to do with "double standard" - stick with the topic.
Hillary Clinton repeatedly lied. "I never destroyed any emails, " "I never sent classified emails " etc. etc ......Again, stick with the topic.
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Show me examples of my "every post"? I'd hate for people to read that accusation and think it was sleazy of you w/o any back up.

Show me examples of my "every post"? I'd hate for people to read that accusation and think it was sleazy of you w/o any back up.

Sorry Paul ... I'll stick to topic. I'm sorry for the personal attack . Just please apply your good ethics and morals In a non partisan way 😊

The only one that is in trouble after Comey's testimony is Comey . He is sleazy
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I'll go with Comey's story. He admitted his errors, his "weakness" in not calling 45 out.

Trump's latest lie: "I'm not a liar"

The tapes of the conversation are this years Kenya birth claim. Neither exists.

Integrity trumps "loyalty".
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I'll go with Comey's story. He admitted his errors, his "weakness" in not calling 45 out.

Trump's latest lie: "I'm not a liar"

The tapes of the conversation are this years Kenya birth claim. Neither exists.

Integrity trumps "loyalty".
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What integrity ??? Name a Comey accomplishment . The man is like a millennial female . ( I stole that but it fits perfectly ) Go listen to his testimony please as it clearly shows his hatred for Trump and Comey's complete lack of balls .
If he's the best the FBI has then no wonder it took 20 years to find Whitey .
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I never trusted him as far as I could throw him and nothing has changed to alter my opinion of Trump. I was never a Hillary fan, but I've always felt I'd need to count my fingers after shaking hands with this man. What a corporate bully thinks he can get away with in the private sector just isn't going to play well in the White House. I'm so tired of the drama, it's not good governing at this point, too many distractions; mostly brought on by his own actions.
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Watched it live. Saw reps on both sides praise his honesty. He admitted his errors, his regrets. The guy served under both parties, 3 separate presidents, only spoke to the last guy twice, once to say goodbye.

The guy you're defending started the birther movement, accused an opponent's dad of killing JFK, and has been caught in many many lies and hypocrisies

Save the Hillary/Obama comparison excuses. As an independent I can see their faults clear as a bell also.
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Watched it live. Saw reps on both sides praise his honesty. He admitted his errors, his regrets. The guy served under both parties, 3 separate presidents, only spoke to the last guy twice, once to say goodbye.

The guy you're defending started the birther movement, accused an opponent's dad of killing JFK, and has been caught in many many lies and hypocrisies

Save the Hillary/Obama comparison excuses. As an independent I can see their faults clear as a bell also.
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Hillary's campaign started the birther movement .
The guy your defending didn't investigate leaks because he was the leak and quite possible tried to take down the President for retribution .
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I never trusted him as far as I could throw him and nothing has changed to alter my opinion of Trump. I was never a Hillary fan, but I've always felt I'd need to count my fingers after shaking hands with this man. What a corporate bully thinks he can get away with in the private sector just isn't going to play well in the White House. I'm so tired of the drama, it's not good governing at this point, too many distractions; mostly brought on by his own actions.
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Saying once " I hope you can let this go " isn't bullying and Comey said in subsequent meetlmgs Trump never mentioned it again . Perhaps Comey needs his safe space . Good God , he's was the head of the FBI .
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Bull#^&#^&#^&#^& and redirect is how Trump rolls.
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Bull#^&#^&#^&#^& and redirect is how Trump rolls.
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Redirect ???? Culusion was a lie .
Now they are demanding the "tapes" lmao
People can't be this stupid . He said "Comey better hope (there's that scary word again ) there are no tapes . Idiots .... played for fools . Trump must piss himself laughing
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Hillary's campaign started the birther movement .
The guy your defending didn't investigate leaks because he was the leak and quite possible tried to take down the President for retribution .
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Ok, in your world, Hillary was the driver of the birther movement. Funny how she never mentioned it in any campaign speeches, no?

And all the leaks just started after Comey was fired. Ok, sounds right.

I'll take "the sin is worse than the exposure of the sin" for $500, Pat.
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Redirect ???? Culusion was a lie .
Now they are demanding the "tapes" lmao
People can't be this stupid . He said "Comey better hope (there's that scary word again ) there are no tapes . Idiots .... played for fools . Trump must piss himself laughing
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I think he pisses himself lying, crying, or laughing.

I don't think he has aged well in the last 4 months

Ok, in your world, Hillary was the driver of the birther movement. Funny how she never mentioned it in any campaign speeches, no?

And all the leaks just started after Comey was fired. Ok, sounds right.

I'll take "the sin is worse than the exposure of the sin" for $500, Pat.
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Not my world , it's their world and you didn't say who was the driving force you said Trump started it .
There is no proof this was Comey's first leak . I agree
Now did he do it to try to take down the Ptesident ? Yes according to him .
This troubles me
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It's true. He could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and his followers would still love him.

If you want to take pride in that, God bless you.
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It's true. He could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and his followers would still love him.

If you want to take pride in that, God bless you.
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Logical response
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It's called capt of the ship Trump owns what his people may have or may not have done to include Flynn. And asking comey to hope he could leave it alone .. no sure how Trump supports can't understand his meaning.. but yet again they love telling us what he ment to say.. even though we all understand the suggestion
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It's called capt of the ship Trump owns what his people may have or may not have done to include Flynn. And asking comey to hope he could leave it alone .. no sure how Trump supports can't understand his meaning.. but yet again they love telling us what he ment to say.. even though we all understand the suggestion
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He meant what he said . He hoped !
What did Lynch mean when she directed Comey to call Hillary's investigation a "matter" ??
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It's called capt of the ship Trump owns what his people may have or may not have done to include Flynn. And asking comey to hope he could leave it alone .. no sure how Trump supports can't understand his meaning.. but yet again they love telling us what he ment to say.. even though we all understand the suggestion
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"Trump owns what his people may have or may not have done "

Oh, I see. So when Comey also said that Obama's Attorney General, Loretta Lynch, pressured him to downplay the Hilary email investigation...then using your logic, Obama "owns" that, correct? Or are bad things only "owned" by Republicans who do them?

Trump is a liar, a sexist, an unbelievable egomaniac, and a bully. We know these things, we know them for a fact.

But how do you criticize Trump for pressuring the FBI director, unless you can similarly criticize Obama?

"Trump owns what his people may have or may not have done "

Oh, I see. So when Comey also said that Obama's Attorney General, Loretta Lynch, pressured him to downplay the Hilary email investigation...then using your logic, Obama "owns" that, correct? Or are bad things only "owned" by Republicans who do them?

Trump is a liar, a sexist, an unbelievable egomaniac, and a bully. We know these things, we know them for a fact.

But how do you criticize Trump for pressuring the FBI director, unless you can similarly criticize Obama?
Obama never asked to end an investigation but why should the actual events matter. he is not potus and now you guys are playing but but but Obama. And carrying Trumps talking points . And the worst part you agree he is all those things listed .. and still carry his water . I am confused when will we give up this isn't about hilliarys loss but Trumps actions
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Obama never asked to end an investigation but why should the actual events matter. he is not potus and now you guys are playing but but but Obama. And carrying Trumps talking points . And the worst part you agree he is all those things listed .. and still carry his water . I am confused when will we give up this isn't about hilliarys loss but Trumps actions
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Trump didn't ask either . Why are you repeating talking points instead of stating fact ? Most of what people assume is fact about what Trump is , what he said or what he has done is not based on fact, but on media assumptions , what ifs and made up lies .
Show me where he said to drop an investigation .
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Are there tapes?
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are bad things only "owned" by Republicans who do them?

Trump is a liar,

Trump is now officially a politician. Lying in some form or other is primary political methodology.

a sexist,

He has placed women in key, very important positions in his administration. He has done so in his private business as well. He seems to adore and respect his wife and daughter. If divorce or unmarried sex is sexism, then most Americans are sexist.

an unbelievable egomaniac,

It is neither unbelievable, nor totally egomaniacal. He shows appreciation for work well done, and for things done for him personally, politically, and financially. And besides, he is now officially a politician. Big egos, as well as clever lying, are prerequisites for political office. For most, those are bad only when politicians on the other side are like that. For our guys, it's a good thing. You may be more of a political purist than you have expressed in the past. You are, though, backing his politics in spite of your personal dislike of him


and a bully.

Ditto the being a politician thing. His "bullying" is not as subtle as most, probably because he has so much and so many to fight against. And because his agenda is so radically opposed to what establishment politicians do who want to keep their power. He doesn't seem to care how "unpresidential" or politically incorrect he is. It doesn't seem that holding onto power above all else is what he is about.

His bullying may be more of a contentiousness against so much establishment opposition--including most of the media, the Democrat party, a big chunk of his own party, Holywood, entertainment shows, and his having been successfully demonized.

We know these things, we know them for a fact.


Maybe for a bit of fact, but more so as the very negative and overstated characterization of him successfully established by his opponents.

"The study found that US Presidents exhibit elevated levels of grandiose narcissism compared with the general population, and that presidents' grandiose narcissism has been rising over time.

The relentless increases in extraversion and narcissism in US Presidents through history, which this study found, could stem, the authors speculate, from the heightened demands on political figures to be publicly charismatic and flamboyant, as media coverage gets more intense."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/slightly-blighty/201509/just-how-narcissistic-are-us-presidents-does-ego-rule

Obama never asked to end an investigation but why should the actual events matter. he is not potus and now you guys are playing but but but Obama. And carrying Trumps talking points . And the worst part you agree he is all those things listed .. and still carry his water . I am confused when will we give up this isn't about hilliarys loss but Trumps actions
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Oh, I see now. It's OK to interfere with the FBI to get them to downplay an investigation, but not OK to ask them to back off.

"and still carry his water "

I am honest. Not the same as carrying anyone's water. All I as is that you hold democrats and republicans to the same standard, and it's apparently asking way too much.

" am confused when will we give up this isn't about hilliarys loss but Trumps actions"

I think it's fair to point out the glaring double standard. Doesn't mean I don't have complete disdain for the guy.

Maybe for a bit of fact, but more so as the very negative and overstated characterization of him successfully established by his opponents.

Agreed 100%. He isn't nearly as evil as he is portrayed to be. But I don't think he is a good guy. Bush 43 is a really good and decent person. Trump isn't the personification of evil, but not a good guy IMHO.

He bragged about the size of his hands, at a presidential debate. I still have a hard time digesting that.

Trump didn't ask either . Why are you repeating talking points instead of stating fact ? Most of what people assume is fact about what Trump is , what he said or what he has done is not based on fact, but on media assumptions , what ifs and made up lies .
Show me where he said to drop an investigation .
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I hope you can let this go Or is that to cryptic for you... I hope you'll come home with me said the Jon to the prostitute , let me guess you think he was asking her on a date
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Trump might have not directly told Comey to drop the investigation, but when someone in that high a position of power says "I hope", it's implied that it's what I want to happen. Power corrupts absolutely and Trump is used to getting what he wants and this new reality isn't probably good for his getting a restful 8 hours of sleep.

His biggest problem IMHO is that he has surrounded himself with people that don't know the ropes and what flies in the private sector isn't going to work in the white house. It would have been interesting to rewind the tape and see where we might be had he done just that. Yes I know he doesn't trust anyone but his inner circle of close friends and family; but they don't know crap about the workings of Washington DC.

Bitches about talks Clinton had on the tarmac and yet he can ask everyone to leave the room except the director of the FBI and that isn't worse to the nth degree? So ironic to watch all this unfold.

Agreed 100%. He isn't nearly as evil as he is portrayed to be. But I don't think he is a good guy. Bush 43 is a really good and decent person. Trump isn't the personification of evil, but not a good guy IMHO.

Sometimes "good guys" make lousy Presidents, and sometimes not-so-good guys are effective Presidents.

He bragged about the size of his hands, at a presidential debate. I still have a hard time digesting that.

The size of his hands thing was not braggadocio as much as a retort to a report that his hands were small (implying, idiotically, that his manhood member was therefor also small). It was Trump-like to respond to such idiocy, not Presidential, but he doesn't let anything go. Bush let too much go unanswered. Maybe you can suggest what the perfect balance is.

At any rate, Trump's showing the size of his hands was to disprove the idiotic allegation, not bragging. And, it was proven that the photo accompanying the idiotic article about the size of Trump's hands was photo-shopped--totally fabricated, as is the case in many accusations against Trump.

Trump might have not directly told Comey to drop the investigation, but when someone in that high a position of power says "I hope", it's implied that it's what I want to happen. Power corrupts absolutely and Trump is used to getting what he wants and this new reality isn't probably good for his getting a restful 8 hours of sleep.

Just a minor thing--power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. In either case, mostly the former, that's why most politicians are corrupt. Trump is probably less corrupt than many of the politicians that have graced our political offices. I am speaking about politics here. His personal life outside of politics doesn't interest me.

His biggest problem IMHO is that he has surrounded himself with people that don't know the ropes and what flies in the private sector isn't going to work in the white house. It would have been interesting to rewind the tape and see where we might be had he done just that. Yes I know he doesn't trust anyone but his inner circle of close friends and family; but they don't know crap about the workings of Washington DC.

You have just described the bane of American politics--"what flies in the private sector isn't going to work in the white house." It should work. But, from the very foundation of our political system (the destruction of the Constitution) to every office, cabinet, and agency of every level of government, corruption of some sort is more influential than the prescribed rules of operation and conduct.

Government can prosecute private malfeasance. But it is not as adept at prosecuting it's own. Unless, of course, it attempts to bring down the opposition party, even if the charges are bogus which would be further demonstration of how corrupted our governmental process has become.

Calvin Coolidge was that peculiar exception of very modest to no corruption who ran the White House like a business, to the chagrin of many. And he was very successful in actually reducing the national debt and lifting us into an age of economic prosperity.

Continuing the "workings of Washington D.C." will continue the same crap that has led us into unsustainable debt and the degradation of the document that guarantees our individual freedoms.

Bitches about talks Clinton had on the tarmac and yet he can ask everyone to leave the room except the director of the FBI and that isn't worse to the nth degree? So ironic to watch all this unfold.

The difference is that Bill Clinton did not have the legal authority to ask or demand anything from the attorney general. Donald Trump, as President, does have constitutional authority to do so. Consider this article:

http://2164th.blogspot.com/2017/06/alan-dershowitz-is-he-only-sane-and.html

and Bill Clinton, we were told, could be a complete dirt bag/reprobate in his personal/private life(and occasionally in the oval office)...yet simultaneously be a fabulous president...the two were in no way related...Obama could have all kinds of dubious acquaintances and predilections which.... actually made him more qualified for the office as they showed his "open mindedness". Kerry and Gore had HRC had flaws that we were told were either irrelevant or in some perverted way qualifiers for the office they sought :huh:

I've not enjoyed the mainstream news, NPR and on as much as I do currently....non-stop mindless cackling by self-important preeners who are offended by the fact that no one seems to be listening to them.....when you speak day in and day out using the same catch phrases filled with indignation bordering on lunacy complaining about things you've overlooked or condoned and defended not so many years ago, you tend to undermine you own credibility regardless of the seriousness of your message....

for Trumps supporters, every "attack" hardens their resolution...for the folks that find themselves on the same side of the aisle grudgingly affiliated it's just more shoulder shrugging...."Trump might be bad but you people are insane"

it's early...the fun is only beginning :hihi:

“The press is focusing on personality, not substance,” he(Patterson) said recently on public radio’s “On the Media” program. And that reflects “not a partisan bias but a journalistic bias,” the tendency to seek out conflict."

"Thus, home pages of news organizations or hour upon hour of cable news are relentlessly focused on the president — not always because of solid newsworthiness."

We’ve(journalists) got plenty of things to improve on. Giving Trump gratuitous strokes is not one of them."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/is-media-coverage-of-trump-too-negative-youre-asking-the-wrong-question/2017/06/11/b0bc93aa-4d0f-11e7-a186-60c031eab644_story.html?utm_term=.f7760f18a98b


I don't believe Trump has ever asked for a "gratuitous stroke"..though Bill Clinton no doubt regularly requested them... and Obama was tongue bathed in them like no other president in our history....:hihi:

The size of his hands thing was not braggadocio as much as a retort to a report that his hands were small (implying, idiotically, that his manhood member was therefor also small). It was Trump-like to respond to such idiocy, not Presidential, but he doesn't let anything go. Bush let too much go unanswered. Maybe you can suggest what the perfect balance is.

At any rate, Trump's showing the size of his hands was to disprove the idiotic allegation, not bragging. And, it was proven that the photo accompanying the idiotic article about the size of Trump's hands was photo-shopped--totally fabricated, as is the case in many accusations against Trump.

"Maybe you can suggest what the perfect balance is."

What Trey Gowdy would say, is the right answer. Not what Milo what's-his-face would say. I don't even know what words to use to describe Trump anymore. But if they re-did the election tomorrow, and he was the GOP nominee, I'd vote for him in a second.

"it was proven that the photo accompanying the idiotic article about "

Was the video feed fake too? Because his words there...I dunno.


"totally fabricated, as is the case in many accusations against Trump"

The media has gone completely off the deep end.

and Bill Clinton, we were told, could be a complete dirt bag/reprobate in his personal/private life(and occasionally in the oval office)...yet simultaneously be a fabulous president...:

That sentence right there, is a perfect, exact description of where we are. The hypocrisy and double standard is insane. The party that ran the Clintons, the Kennedys, John Edwards (cheating on his dying wife), is all of a sudden concerned with the personal moral compass of the President. Depends on whose ox is getting gored I guess.

It's true. He could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and his followers would still love him.

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Or fire a special prosecuter that is investigating you.
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Or fire a special prosecuter that is investigating you.
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Since there is no crime to "investigate," firing Mueller would be a nothing-burger. But it would be great political theater. The entertainment should last for months. Hope he does it.

Since there is no crime to "investigate," firing Mueller would be a nothing-burger. But it would be great political theater. The entertainment should last for months. Hope he does it.

I agree . Meanwhile he continues plugging along with his agenda .
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I thought that Flynn likely broke the law by failing to register as a agent of a foreign country as he didn't disclose the payments he received.

I thought that Flynn likely broke the law by failing to register as a agent of a foreign country

???

probably depends on what the meaning of "likely" is :heybaby:

and Bill Clinton, we were told, could be a complete dirt bag/reprobate in his personal/private life(and occasionally in the oval office)...yet simultaneously be a fabulous president...the two were in no way related...Obama could have all kinds of dubious acquaintances and predilections which.... actually made him more qualified for the office as they showed his "open mindedness". Kerry and Gore had HRC had flaws that we were told were either irrelevant or in some perverted way qualifiers for the office they sought :huh:

I've not enjoyed the mainstream news, NPR and on as much as I do currently....non-stop mindless cackling by self-important preeners who are offended by the fact that no one seems to be listening to them.....when you speak day in and day out using the same catch phrases filled with indignation bordering on lunacy complaining about things you've overlooked or condoned and defended not so many years ago, you tend to undermine you own credibility regardless of the seriousness of your message....

for Trumps supporters, every "attack" hardens their resolution...for the folks that find themselves on the same side of the aisle grudgingly affiliated it's just more shoulder shrugging...."Trump might be bad but you people are insane"

it's early...the fun is only beginning :hihi:

I don't believe Trump has ever asked for a "gratuitous stroke"..though Bill Clinton no doubt regularly requested them... and Obama was tongue bathed in them like no other president in our history....:hihi:

I liked some of the Schaedenfreude but I can't take 4 years of it (there won't be 8, Trump does not have the stamina).

Or fire a special prosecuter that is investigating you.
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Since there is no crime to "investigate," firing Mueller would be a nothing-burger. But it would be great political theater. The entertainment should last for months. Hope he does it.

We don't know there is no crime. We have reason to believe DJT is not the focus of the investigation - at least until he stepped on his crank.

I thought that Flynn likely broke the law by failing to register as a agent of a foreign country as he didn't disclose the payments he received.

And possibly other things as well. I would hope it would be fair and fast for the sake of our county but I now expect it might be painful and long. IN the end, hard to say who will have done worse by out Country; Obama, Obama to Trump, or the mythical Obama to Hillary

I liked some of the Schaedenfreude but I can't take 4 years of it (there won't be 8, Trump does not have the stamina).



I view it as entertainment....politicians are reality tv stars, they don't say things because they mean them, they read from scripts for effect and to cause reaction....and I don't think the media and the left can keep up the pace either...they've become a caricature....obsessed with a caricature ......predictable daily manufactured indignation that has become comical...much to Trumps pleasure and benefit

I view it as entertainment....politicians are reality tv stars, they don't say things because they mean them, they read from scripts for effect and to cause reaction....and I don't think the media and the left can keep up the pace either...they've become a caricature....obsessed with a caricature ......predictable daily manufactured indignation that has become comical...much to Trumps pleasure and benefit


The problem is that it quickly develops into an impediment to democracy. Just because the Progressives eff up Democracy when it suits them doesn't mean it should be allowable on the right. All must be held to a higher standard. Trump, like Slick Willy and the Bride of Frankenstein, has few standards.

John - I would like to say thank you to you, our dear exalted leader for spreading your blessings on us by graciously and magnanimously allowing us to serve and fulfill your agenda in having this forum.

John - I would like to say thank you to you, our dear exalted leader for spreading your blessings on us by graciously and magnanimously allowing us to serve and fulfill your agenda in having this forum.

can't decide if that's creepy or snarky :scream:

can't decide if that's creepy or snarky :scream:

Creepy from the original source, snarky from scottw. Just my guess.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

John - I would like to say thank you to you, our dear exalted leader for spreading your blessings on us by graciously and magnanimously allowing us to serve and fulfill your agenda in having this forum.

Errr, OK ?

My Agenda? How does this forum get me closer to serious time with Gal Gadot?

can't decide if that's creepy or snarky :scream:

Snark I'm more than OK with :rotf2:

Come on I was channeling my inner Reince.
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I do not recall:(

I thought that Flynn likely broke the law by failing to register as a agent of a foreign country as he didn't disclose the payments he received.

My reference was to your "Or fire a special prosecuter that is investigating you." Your quote did not refer to Flynn, it obviously referred to Trump. If not, it made no sense. What crime did Trump commit that the special prosecutor is investigating?

Who cares?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch
Since there is no crime to "investigate," firing Mueller would be a nothing-burger. But it would be great political theater. The entertainment should last for months. Hope he does it.

Quote:
Reply by JohnR
We don't know there is no crime. We have reason to believe DJT is not the focus of the investigation - at least until he stepped on his crank.

Quote:
Reply by Detbuch
If we don't know if there is a crime, why is there an investigation? Doesn't a crime actually have to be established before there is an investigation? It seems awfully strange to be investigating if a crime has been committed. That sort of process has no bounds. The "investigation" has already seemed to leave the Russian collusion by Trump behind and is morphing into obstruction of justice by Trump and can morph into something else if there is no end until SOME crime is found to have been committed by SOMEBODY.

No doubt, that is what some hope happens.

My reference was to your "Or fire a special prosecuter that is investigating you."

that was apparently a fake news story that Paul found on the internets...

My reference was to your "Or fire a special prosecuter that is investigating you." Your quote did not refer to Flynn, it obviously referred to Trump. If not, it made no sense. What crime did Trump commit that the special prosecutor is investigating?

The investigation is to determine if members of Trumps TEAM coordinated with Russia. I am OK with them finding out.

If they didn't then knock it the eff off.

The investigation is to determine if members of Trumps TEAM coordinated with Russia. I am OK with them finding out.

If they didn't then knock it the eff off.

Due process would require that a crime was committed. And if no specific crime has been determined to have actually happened, then there must be definitive evidence that a crime occurred. Accusation out of thin air, or for political reason, without evidence, does not warrant an official investigation.

The mere possibility that a crime was committed, again, without evidence, leaves us with no official reason to investigate. Possibility, without evidence, is infinite. There is always the possibility that a crime has been committed somehow, somewhere, by someone.

Hearsay and accusation are not evidence. Newspaper and Media reports, especially by unnamed sources, are not evidence. Conjecture by legal experts is not evidence.

Vagaries such as "likely broke the law by failing to register as a agent of a foreign country as he didn't disclose the payments he received" and "possibly other things as well" are suppositions not evidence. If Flynn broke the law by failing to register as a foreign agent, that should not require a special prosecutor to determine. That should be an easy case and already determined by now.

What, specifically, was coordinated? Did the coordination break a law?

As far as Trump coordinating anything illegal with the Russians, all that is continually being reiterated is that there is no evidence of it. If anyone, whether they were on Trump's team or not, illegally coordinated with the Russians, what actual evidence is there of it, and why has there been no prosecution by now? Why appoint a special prosecutor to catch little fish when the perpetrators can be charged and tried in a court of law? Obviously, Trump is the target, one way or another, if you can't get him, implicate members of his administration, even if they are no longer part of it. It's basically a show trial to cast grave doubt about his administration. And a quick resolution is not desired by those opposed to Trump. Dragging this on without resolution (which would probably exonerate Trump personally) casting the air of negativity and corruption surrounding Trump until the mid-term election is exactly the desired outcome.

Different rules / argument.

If the intelligence services saw something during normal intercepts & intel gathering and then forwarded to FBI/Justice Department for follow up / investigation.

Different rules / argument.

If the intelligence services saw something during normal intercepts & intel gathering and then forwarded to FBI/Justice Department for follow up / investigation.

I assume the "something" that was seen was actual evidence of collusion, otherwise why forward it to FBI/Justice Department. Now that there is a special prosecutor, that "something" will finally be revealed. Amazing that the "something" has not already been leaked. The FBI/Justice Department haven't told us what the evidence of collusion they must have had for a long time now is. But the SP can finally tell us and lay the hammer down. Shouldn't take long, should it?

Now that it is all in the hands of the SP, shouldn't the argument be the same as any criminal prosecution--an actual crime being committed and actual incriminating evidence presented?

[QUOTE=detbuch;1123483If we don't know if there is a crime, why is there an investigation? Doesn't a crime actually have to be established before there is an investigation? It seems awfully strange to be investigating if a crime has been committed. That sort of process has no bounds. The "investigation" has already seemed to leave the Russian collusion by Trump behind and is morphing into obstruction of justice by Trump and can morph into something else if there is no end until SOME crime is found to have been committed by SOMEBODY.

No doubt, that is what some hope happens.[/QUOTE]

Uh-huh. The scope of the investigation has widened.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/special-counsel-is-investigating-trump-for-possible-obstruction-of-justice-officials-say/ar-BBCGuJn?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

So much for "The investigation is to determine if members of Trumps TEAM coordinated with Russia." It will no doubt widen until "something" is found. The "Different rules / argument" change by the day. The lawyers Mueller (who it is reported is a good friend and mentor of Comey) is bringing on board to help in the "investigation" are hard core Democrats. Not looking good for the Trumpster. The "investigation" is not really about collusion, but about finding "something" which can lead to impeachment. Any little fish such as Flynn that can be fried along the way are just collateral damage.