So if Obama is Blamed For BLM movement

I guess Its Trumps fault for the White Nationalist Movement (seems the silent Majority is in Plan view now ) Mr Trump condemned violence by "many sides" - but stopped short of explicitly condemning the far-right.

Republican Senator Cory Gardner said "Mr. President - we must call evil by its name."

Senator Hatch Office ✔ @senorrinhatch
Their tiki torches may be fueled by citronella but their ideas are fueled by hate, & have no place in civil society. https://twitter.com/aletweetsnews/status/896189794778218496 …

Senator Hatch Office ✔ @senorrinhatch
We should call evil by its name. My brother didn't give his life fighting Hitler for Nazi ideas to go unchallenged here at home. -OGH

Trump just missed another chance.. Sad he so is weak he cant even be speak against the Nazi Flag in America

Trump is still campaigning, why would he anger the people he looked to for getting out to the polls during the run for office?

So if Obama is Blamed For BLM movement

I guess Its Trumps fault for the White Nationalist Movement

So are you saying that both were at fault or that neither were?

(seems the silent Majority is in Plan view now ) Mr Trump condemned violence by "many sides" - but stopped short of explicitly condemning the far-right.

If he condemned violence by many sides, why should he explicitly condemn one side?

Trump just missed another chance.. Sad he so is weak he cant even be speak against the Nazi Flag in America

I assume the Nazi side was included in the "many sides" which he condemned.

BTW, I don't think Trump has specifically sided with any race. I don't believe he has expressed a "white lives matter" point of view.

For many on the "white" side, the decades long criticism and portrayal of them as being racist, and the never ending social set asides and preferential treatment for "minorities" and the seemingly entrenched rhetoric of white guilt accompanied by the assumed purity of minorities from racism, hate, and bigotry, has created a backlash. That backlash was dormant and possibly growing in intensity, and was probably brought closer to the surface by Obama's failure to create the anticipated racial unity as a result of his election. Instead, he egged on the white guilt and black innocence trip.

And it really started to ignite when Trump's rallies were so often disrupted by the SJW's trying to portray him as a racist, bigot, homophobe, and all the other phobes. And further ignited when right wingers. were shut down from speaking on college campuses by the SJW's and BLM's, aided by other left wingers.

If Obama would have equally condemned all "sides," maybe the chit would not have been hitting the fan as it is now.

I assume the Nazi side was included in the "many sides" which he condemned.

BTW, I don't think Trump has specifically sided with any race. I don't believe he has expressed a "white lives matter" point of view.

For many on the "white" side, the decades long criticism and portrayal of them as being racist, and the never ending social set asides and preferential treatment for "minorities" and the seemingly entrenched rhetoric of white guilt accompanied by the assumed purity of minorities from racism, hate, and bigotry, has created a backlash. That backlash was dormant and possibly growing in intensity, and was probably brought closer to the surface by Obama's failure to create the anticipated racial unity as a result of his election. Instead, he egged on the white guilt and black innocence trip.

And it really started to ignite when Trump's rallies were so often disrupted by the SJW's trying to portray him as a racist, bigot, homophobe, and all the other phobes. And further ignited when right wingers. were shut down from speaking on college campuses by the SJW's and BLM's, aided by other left wingers.

If Obama would have equally condemned all "sides," maybe the chit would not have been hitting the fan as it is now.


Thats funny blame the Black guy :kewl:

So are you saying that both were at fault or that neither were? I am not saying anything... I am asking if people felt Obama was at fault for BLM is Trump going to be Held to the same Standard

And it really started to ignite when Trump's rallies were so often disrupted by the SJW's trying to portray him as a racist, bigot, homophobe, and all the other phobes. And further ignited when right wingers. were shut down from speaking on college campuses by the SJW's and BLM's, aided by other left wingers.


Would have been nice if the coverage was equal to but the media made Trump out to be the bad guy and the rioters at his rally as nice normal people pushed into rage because of Trump.

Even with yesterday's H O R R I B L E Neo Nazis/WhiteSupremecist/KLAN azzholes it was NeoNazis -v- "Counter Protesters", not Antifa, not much was peaceful about it for either side. But that is what happens with identity politics - AND media coverage.



If Obama would have equally condemned all "sides," maybe the chit would not have been hitting the fan as it is now.

Yes, he should have but he didn't. Ironically a lot of us called him out for it and being vague, Trump was vague enough yesterday too. He could have been more direct at putting the Klan/NN/WhiteSuprems in check but he didn't.

Yesterday was Effing Horrible, but it should not come as any surprise because it has happened in the past with those groups, and it has happened in the past and the more recent past with Antifa/BLM/WWP.

Neither is acceptable and neither should be ignored.

I remember when I was younger and it was pretty easy to see unanimity when it came to condemning the actions of Nazis and White Supremacists...I miss those days.

Nobody said it was okay because their were also groups committing violent acts (black panthers, weather underground, etc.). These groups were also condemned for their violent acts. Hard to imagine.
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I guess I don't understand the need to give these deplorables the two things that they are seeking when they hold these get togethers...attention and conflict....the media provides the attention and the counter protesters provide the opportunity for conflict.....

wouldn't it be best for them to show up and everyone ignore them so that they could then go back to whatever holes they crawled out of with none of what they sought?

Thats funny blame the Black guy :kewl:

I didn't actually blame anybody. I suggested that if Obama had condemned all sides equally, then we might not have gotten this far along the road to where Americans are openly physically at war with each other. Maybe there is nothing he could have said to keep violence under wraps. I do question his open, avowed, support of BLM in contrast to a willingness to criticize racism (whites) and police for the plight of blacks in America.

And I certainly didn't blame the Black guy. I questioned the action, or lack of it, by the President of the United States and the effect that might have had on the present violence. Your little jab is part of and a demonstration of the difficulty in having an honest discussion about racial views. In your view "blaming" Obama automatically equates to blaming the Black guy.

So are you saying that both were at fault or that neither were? I am not saying anything... I am asking if people felt Obama was at fault for BLM is Trump going to be Held to the same Standard

Perhaps I misunderstood what the standard is in your statement. It seemed to me that when you said--"So if Obama is Blamed For BLM movement I guess Its Trumps fault for the White Nationalist Movement"--the only standard you presented was fault or blame. It also implied to me that you believed the same "standard" should be held for both. That is if one is held to be at fault, so should the other, or, if one is not held to be at fault, then so should the other not be blamed. Your statement also implies that if the same standard, fault or not at fault, is not held for both, that would be hypocritical, ergo, wrong. Which all leads me to believe that you think they should be held to the same standard--both at fault or neither at fault. Which led me to ask "So are you saying that both were at fault or that neither were?" Am I wrong in my assumptions and in my question? If so, I apologize. It could be that you have no dog in that hunt, don't care one way or the other, that you're just curious?

BTW, it could be that one was at fault and the other wasn't. Why must it be given that if one is at fault the other must also be? What is the "standard" being held to if one is blameworthy and the other isn't? Would that be actual words and support given by either Obama or Trump? Didn't Obama actually support and defend BLM? Did Trump actually support or defend Nazi's? Obama is blamed for what he actually said about groups, including police and "racists" (whites). Trump is blamed for what he has not said about certain groups. Trump blamed various people for disrupting his rallies. Should he have praised them for doing so, or just shut up about it even though others including politicians and the media were blaming his rallies for provoking the violence being perpetrated against themselves? In the end what Trump said was a condemnation for "all sides." Does that, or is that going to, inspire more violence as many of those whom you are questioning believe Obama's words inspired BLM violence?

Perhaps I misunderstood what the standard is in your statement. It seemed to me that when you said--"So if Obama is Blamed For BLM movement I guess Its Trumps fault for the White Nationalist Movement"--the only standard you presented was fault or blame. It also implied to me that you believed the same "standard" should be held for both. That is if one is held to be at fault, so should the other, or, if one is not held to be at fault, then so should the other not be blamed. Your statement also implies that if the same standard, fault or not at fault, is not held for both, that would be hypocritical, ergo, wrong. Which all leads me to believe that you think they should be held to the same standard--both at fault or neither at fault. Which led me to ask "So are you saying that both were at fault or that neither were?" Am I wrong in my assumptions and in my question? If so, I apologize. It could be that you have no dog in that hunt, don't care one way or the other, that you're just curious?

BTW, it could be that one was at fault and the other wasn't. Why must it be given that if one is at fault the other must also be? What is the "standard" being held to if one is blameworthy and the other isn't? Would that be actual words and support given by either Obama or Trump? Didn't Obama actually support and defend BLM? Did Trump actually support or defend Nazi's? Obama is blamed for what he actually said about groups, including police and "racists" (whites). Trump is blamed for what he has not said about certain groups. Trump blamed various people for disrupting his rallies. Should he have praised them for doing so, or just shut up about it even though others including politicians and the media were blaming his rallies for provoking the violence being perpetrated against themselves? In the end what Trump said was a condemnation for "all sides." Does that, or is that going to, inspire more violence as many of those whom you are questioning believe Obama's words inspired BLM violence?


You need to ask those who Blamed or found fault in Obama for the Rise of the BLM movement . I would think that those who did and do so now would be able to to identify Similarities between Obamas support and rise of BLM and Trump and rise ( re birth ) and support of White Nationalist ..

I can say I have ever seen Such a rally of white nationalist with weapons Gas mask shields and other things .

I can only imagine if theses same thing were present at BLM rallies .

When our President doesn’t (repeatedly) condemn white supremacists, the KKK, white nationalists, alt right can he be considered a real American or a President for all?

He has someone at his right hand who said in his previous job he was “giving the alt right” a platform. He started his rise to the presidency by question Pres. Obama’s birth.

He has been strangely quite (other to blame both sides equally) – maybe he is finally finishing the secret strategy he promised us to defeat ISIS or is finally finishing the report showing how President Obama “tapped” his phones.

Members of his own party and family have quickly and firmly condemn the hate shown Sat.

Maybe now it is finally clear to all who possess even a limited intelligence what type of person he really is.

What a sad few days.

Make America Hate Agian.
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Trump is an ass, a buffoon, a fool, and a narcissist. I am still not sure he is worse than Hillary.

Both the current Admin and the previous Admin should have been very firm and very clear early on that the extremist groups and beliefs on both sides: NeoNazi/WhiteSupreme on right and BLM, Antifa, WWP, NBPP (how many did I miss?).

None are acceptable.



wouldn't it be best for them to show up and everyone ignore them so that they could then go back to whatever holes they crawled out of with none of what they sought?

Ding, ding, ding!

You need to ask those who Blamed or found fault in Obama for the Rise of the BLM movement . I would think that those who did and do so now would be able to to identify Similarities between Obamas support and rise of BLM and Trump and rise ( re birth ) and support of White Nationalist ..

So now you switch from fault or blame for the movements to the rise of them--the moving goal post technique. And not only moving the goal post in the case of Trump's "blame," but further qualifying "rise" to "rebirth."

The criticism of Obama was not, if I recall correctly, that he actually created BLM, but that he supported and defended it. Whatever similarity you see between Trump and Obama re the movements, Trump did not support or defend white nationalism.

I can say I have ever seen Such a rally of white nationalist with weapons Gas mask shields and other things .

The wearing of defensive gadgets has been done by movements in the past when they expected to be physically attacked. The so-called alt-righters started to do it when they attended (or tried to attend) speeches by conservatives on college campuses and were physically attacked.

I can only imagine if theses same thing were present at BLM rallies .

That is telling, isn't it? That BLMers didn't expect to be attacked at their rallies.

such remarkably short and selective memories

When our President doesn’t (repeatedly) condemn white supremacists, the KKK, white nationalists, alt right can he be considered a real American or a President for all?

He doesn't support those things, and he doesn't repeatedly condemn any specific (hate?) group on any "side." He lumps them all together as being unacceptable.

He has someone at his right hand who said in his previous job he was “giving the alt right” a platform. He started his rise to the presidency by question Pres. Obama’s birth.

The alt right is not exactly what it is portrayed to be by "centrists" or "leftists." For some in the movement it may approach some of that, for others it is not that at all. There are some things in the alt-right movement that should have a platform. It might achieve a balance to the platform given to leftism and its excessive accusations of whites (especially males) and western culture as being the cause of the world's problems.

He has been strangely quite (other to blame both sides equally) – maybe he is finally finishing the secret strategy he promised us to defeat ISIS or is finally finishing the report showing how President Obama “tapped” his phones.

Maybe that quietness needs to be made louder, but if it is, then if he blames one side more than another that might inflame the side which is comparitively overblamed.

Members of his own party and family have quickly and firmly condemn the hate shown Sat.

Has Trump disassociated from their condemnations? No.

Maybe now it is finally clear to all who possess even a limited intelligence what type of person he really is.

What a sad few days.

Your implications are not clarity.

weapons Gas mask shields and other things .

I can only imagine if theses same thing were present at BLM rallies .

maybe the Protester Apparel Depot was all sold out of vagina hats

Boss what you said, Trump is so FAR from presidential, I'm embarrassed he is at the helm; god help us all if the fog rolls in because he has no moral compass.
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The phony media & left is so quick to rush to judgment and pounce on the story the way they want it told.
Some video has now surfaced of his car under attack being beat with baseball bats BEFORE he sped up and also tried to change direction, but left don't want that reported. Not like these protesters ever get violent and their PEACEFUL protests turn to riots and burning down buildings 👀
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I can only imagine if theses same thing were present at BLM rallies .

these guys look ready for battle....and now snowflakes are beating up statues and monuments across the country....good grief...this is good...dress and act like the losers you claim to oppose

The "LEFT" got its wish more identity politics and more hate to spew...find a platform.

I was just watching the news and NBC Today show was stating how there was a new movement to protest racism / hate groups.

They are doxxing those that were there, not unusual and not new, for them to unmask those they don't agree with

Apparently all of the "Counter Protests" are always people reacting to some other influence they don't agree with. They have always protested, more and more violently as of late, Grab your torches and pitchforks (citronella torches not first used by RW Hate groups)

The way the news spins things the left are all counter protesters are good (Antifa, WWP, BLM, Workers/Socialists/Communists) and whatever they are protesting is evil. So regular Americans, that disagree with the left , good people assembling will now be lumped in with real a$$hole hategroups like KKK / Neo Nazis, etc. With the backing and top cover of news media.

So now the organizations (news) that most benefit from the 1stA (Freedom of Press) will promote those that would suppress freedom of speech, assembly, and basic liberty.

Side note: wonder if people outside this country are stirring the pot to screw with us. You have the hard right (NeoNazis) clashing with the hard left (Commies) just like the 1930s. Hmmm, what current hard right country has one foot in the hard right and one in the commie camp, and stands to benefit by a weakened and divided USA??

The way the news spins things the left are all counter protesters are good (Antifa, WWP, BLM, Workers/Socialists/Communists) and whatever they are protesting is evil. So regular Americans, that disagree with the left , good people assembling will now be lumped in with real a$$hole hategroups like KKK / Neo Nazis, etc. With the backing and top cover of news media.


That is the scariest thing to come out this week, being lumped in with hate groups. Well you have George Soros and the Democratic party to thank for this, all part of their plan. Don't buy into their bull.

GOD FORBID IF HILLARY was president,a compass would not be the tenth thing I would think of if she were president, the Dems are really working at ruining this country. :lossinit:

That is the scariest thing to come out this week, being lumped in with hate groups. Well you have George Soros and the Democratic party to thank for this, all part of their plan. Don't buy into their bull.

GOD FORBID IF HILLARY was president,a compass would not be the tenth thing I would think of if she were president, the Dems are really working at ruining this country. :lossinit:



Both parties are ruining the county, but This is text book democrat strategy.
Divide & Conquer !
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Hard to say at this point who would be worse, I only hope there are far better choices the next time we elect a president. Small pool of role models for our kids or grandchildren to look up to and aspire to be like. We had the choice of lying, manipulating bitch or thin skinned, reactionary, narcissistic, womanizing bully.
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"On Monday, more than 200 SJW zealots held a protest inside the American Museum of Natural History in New York City to take down the supposedly “racist” statue of former President Theodore Roosevelt. "

Boss what you said, Trump is so FAR from presidential, I'm embarrassed he is at the helm; god help us all if the fog rolls in because he has no moral compass.
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embarrassed X2, sad sad

embarrassed X2, sad sad



Whp the hell gives a crap about a moral compass!!!
All the friggin corruption that goes on in Washington and you guys are concerned about a moral compass.
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So if Obama is Blamed For BLM movement

I guess Its Trumps fault for the White Nationalist Movement (seems the silent Majority is in Plan view now ) Mr Trump condemned violence by "many sides" - but stopped short of explicitly condemning the far-right.

Republican Senator Cory Gardner said "Mr. President - we must call evil by its name."

Senator Hatch Office ✔ @senorrinhatch
Their tiki torches may be fueled by citronella but their ideas are fueled by hate, & have no place in civil society. https://twitter.com/aletweetsnews/status/896189794778218496 …

Senator Hatch Office ✔ @senorrinhatch
We should call evil by its name. My brother didn't give his life fighting Hitler for Nazi ideas to go unchallenged here at home. -OGH

Trump just missed another chance.. Sad he so is weak he cant even be speak against the Nazi Flag in America

"So if Obama is Blamed For BLM movement

I guess Its Trumps fault for the White Nationalist Movement "

Obama repeatedly indicated that the police were at fault, opening his fat mouth before he had the facts. he said the Cambridge police "acted stupidly", and in Ferguson, he lamented that if he had a son, he would look like Michael Brown.

That said, I don't blame Obama for the creation of BLM. For sure, he has emboldened them.

Now, how can you make a similar connection between Trump and White Supremacists? Has he ever expressed any sympathy for white supremacists? Has he ever said "hey, I live in New York City, so I get where you are all saying"?

Trump condemned violence and bigotry from all sides. Would the statement have been more powerful if he specifically mentioned the white supremacists? I believe so, yes. Does his lack of specifically calling them out, imply that he condones anything about them? Hell, no.

Here is the only question that matters. WDMSO, do you believe Trump sympathizes with white supremacists?

Duke just thanked Trump for Trump being Trump. The Boston Jewish memorial vandalized again and Trump just fuels the fire with his inability to lead. Just hard to believe millions were systematically murdered by the Nazis and this president has to have tons of pressure brought to bear on him before he even tries (to late arse hole) to condemn them for what they are. Yes there were probably idiots on both sides of the lines, but for the president to not immediately take a leadership role and condemn these groups for what they are is just so sad. Presidential is a word he has yet to understand or grasp.
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When our President doesn’t (repeatedly) condemn white supremacists, .

When, exactly, did he not condemn the white supremacists? When he said he condemned bigotry and violence on all sides, are you suggesting he meant "all sides, except when Nazis do it, in which case it's OK"?

He's a terrible, terrible speaker, which is a rotten trait in a POTUS. But to say he didn't condemn them, just because his statement was more broad than specific? That's quite a stretch.

Whp the hell gives a crap about a moral compass!!!
All the friggin corruption that goes on in Washington and you guys are concerned about a moral compass.
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Concerned about both, why aren't you?
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Duke just thanked Trump for Trump being Trump. The Boston Jewish memorial vandalized again and Trump just fuels the fire with his inability to lead. Just hard to believe millions were systematically murdered by the Nazis and this president has to have tons of pressure brought to bear on him before he even tries (to late arse hole) to condemn them for what they are. Yes there were probably idiots on both sides of the lines, but for the president to not immediately take a leadership role and condemn these groups for what they are is just so sad. Presidential is a word he has yet to understand or grasp.
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"Duke just thanked Trump for Trump "

So Trump is directly responsible for anything done, by anyone who pays a compliment to him?

GS, if ISIS was going to have endorsed a candidate in the 2016 race, who would it have been? Answer - Hilary. Does that mean she is sympathetic to ISIS? Answer - no.

"The Boston Jewish memorial vandalized again "

His daughter is a Jew for Christ's sake, and so is his son-in-law, who Trump obviously respects deeply. So he's an anti-Semite now?

I have never seen a reaction like this, I have never seen irrationality on this scale. The funny thing is, there are a million legitimate reasons to criticize the guy. But we never stop bending over backwards to connect him with anything evil that happens.

Whew.

"Presidential is a word he has yet to understand or grasp."

That is true.

How is it, that when he says "I condemn bigotry and violence on all sides", that you interpret that as "I have nothing critical to say about white supremacists"?

The way the news spins things... regular Americans, that disagree with the left , good people assembling will now be lumped in with real a$$hole hategroups like KKK / Neo Nazis, etc. With the backing and top cover of news media.



Correct. The left has been doing this since they said Bush only won because the mythical "angry white men" effect.

John, when the left convinces themselves that everyone who disagrees with them about anything is evil, that makes them feel better about losing. Because losing is acceptable, even virtuous, if you convince yourself that at least you took the high road, and everyone else is deplorable and irredeemable.

maybe the Protester Apparel Depot was all sold out of vagina hats

That's funny right there!!

"Duke just thanked Trump for Trump "

So Trump is directly responsible for anything done, by anyone who pays a compliment to him?

GS, if ISIS was going to have endorsed a candidate in the 2016 race, who would it have been? Answer - Hilary. Does that mean she is sympathetic to ISIS? Answer - no.

"The Boston Jewish memorial vandalized again "

His daughter is a Jew for Christ's sake, and so is his son-in-law, who Trump obviously respects deeply. So he's an anti-Semite now?

I have never seen a reaction like this, I have never seen irrationality on this scale. The funny thing is, there are a million legitimate reasons to criticize the guy. But we never stop bending over backwards to connect him with anything evil that happens.

Did you listen to his news conference, I doubt it, he clearly was defending those he refused to call out. And yes I'd have the exact same issue for Hilary if in some surreal world you suggest might exist where isis supporters are allowed to protest and she doesn't react immediately and call evil out.
Whew.

"Presidential is a word he has yet to understand or grasp."

That is true.

How is it, that when he says "I condemn bigotry and violence on all sides", that you interpret that as "I have nothing critical to say about white supremacists"?
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"Did you listen to his news conference, I doubt it, he clearly was defending those he refused to call out"

I was camping in the woods last week, and watched zero TV. So no, I did not see the press conference you refer to. Can you tell me what he said exactly, where he actually defended the white supremacists? That would be outrageous.

"Did you listen to his news conference, I doubt it, he clearly was defending those he refused to call out"

I was camping in the woods last week, and watched zero TV. So no, I did not see the press conference you refer to. Can you tell me what he said exactly, where he actually defended the white supremacists? That would be outrageous.

You should be able to find it online fairly easy so you can make your own judgments.
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Here’s the timeline of events on Aug. 12:

7:39 a.m. – David Duke, the former Klan leader, tweets, “Today will be a historic day, remembered as the moment everything changed. #Charlottesville #UniteTheRight”

8:30 a.m. – Demonstrators begin to gather. The Virginia State Police posts a photo at 8:40 a.m. on its Twitter account of men carrying weapons and wearing fatigues. “Participants for today’s rally at Emancipation Park in Charlottesville begin to arrive. #cvilleaug12”

10:30 a.m. – First outbreak of violence.

11 a.m. – CNN leads its 11 a.m. hour with footage of the clashes between the protesters and counterprotesters. White nationalists can be seen holding wooden shields, carrying weapons and wearing helmets.

11:28 a.m. – Virginia governor declares a state of emergency.

11:37 a.m. – Virginia State Police tweets, “UPDATE: Unlawful assembly declared at Charlottesville rally #cvilleaug12”

11:55 a.m. – Police start to make arrests. State police tweets at 11:55 a.m., “Arrests are being made following declaration of unlawful assembly at Emancipation Park in Charlottesville. #cvilleaug12”

12:40 p.m. – Protesters and counterprotesters gather at nearby Justice Park.

1:02 p.m. – Corinne Geller, a spokeswoman for Virginia State Police, says in an interview with Fox News that “all sides” had engaged in throwing bottles and other debris in what had been — as of that point — a violent, but non-fatal confrontation.

1:19 p.m. – Trump tweets, “We ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for. There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Lets come together as one!”

1:31 p.m. – CNN airs an interview with Duke at the rally, which he said represents a “turning point.” The former Klan grand wizard said, “We’re going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump. That’s what we believed in. That’s why we voted for Donald Trump, because he said we’re going to take our country back. And that’s what we gotta do.”

1:40 p.m. – A driver, later identified as James Alex Fields Jr., speeds down Fourth Street and into a crowd of counterprotesters who are marching in the street. Fields then throws the car in reverse and speeds away.

2:01 p.m. – On Twitter, Duke criticizes Trump’s tweet calling for everyone to “condemn all that hate stands for.” Duke retweets Trump’s post and writes, “So, after decades of White Americans being targeted for discriminated & anti-White hatred, we come together as a people, and you attack us?”

2:03 p.m. – Duke posts a second tweet to Trump. In it, Duke says, “I would recommend you take a good look in the mirror & remember it was White Americans who put you in the presidency, not radical leftists.”

2:14 p.m. – Virginia State Police posts a photo of the crash scene, saying “several pedestrians” were struck and that there were “multiple injuries.”

2:49 p.m. – Fox News posts a video of the car attack. The Fox News reporter says that witnesses described the attack as “absolutely intentional.”

3:30 p.m. – CNN reports it had “now confirmed from Charlottesville Mayor Mike Signer that one person has died, in fact, today during the violent events in the city.”

3:33 p.m. – Trump speaks about Charlottesville at a bill-signing ceremony. He blames “many sides” for the violence.

4:18 p.m. – Fox News tweets that the driver was in custody for “intentional collaborated car attack in #charlottesville.”

5 p.m. – Shortly after 5 p.m., a Virginia State Police helicopter monitoring the rally crashes and two state troopers are killed.

Text of Press Conference


TRUMP: Great to be back in New York with all of our friends and some great friends outside the building, I must tell you.

I want to thank all of our distinguished guests who are with us today, including members of our cabinet: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, O.M.B. Director Mick Mulvaney, and of course our transportation secretary, who’s doing a fabulous job, Elaine Chao. Thank you all for doing a really incredible and creative job on what we are going to be discussing today, which is infrastructure. We’ve just had a great set of briefings upstairs on our infrastructure agenda.





My administration is working every day to deliver the world-class infrastructure that our people deserve, and that frankly our country deserves. That’s why I just signed a new executive order to dramatically reform the nation’s badly broken infrastructure permitting process.
Continue reading the main story







Just blocks away is the Empire State Building. It took 11 months to build the Empire State Building. But today it can take as long as a decade, and much more than that. Many, many stories where it takes 20 and 25 years just to get approvals to start construction of a fairly routine highway. Highway builders must get up to 16 different approvals involving nine different federal agencies governed by 29 different statutes. One agency alone can stall a project for many, many years and even decades. Not only does this cost our economy billions of dollars, but it also denies our citizens the safe and modern infrastructure they deserve.

This overregulated permitting process is a massive, self-inflicted wound on our country. It’s disgraceful. Denying our people much needed investments in their community. And I just want to show you this, because it was just shown to me. I think I’m going to show it to the media, both real and fake media, by the way. This is what it takes to get something approved today.

Elaine, you see that. So this is what it takes, permitting process flow chart. That’s a flowchart. So that can go out to 20 years. This shows about 10. But that can go out to about 20 years to get something approved. This is for a highway. I have seen a highway recently in a certain state. I won’t mention its name. It is 17 years. I could have built it for $4 or $5 million without the permitting process. It costs hundreds of millions of dollars, but it took 17 years to get it approved and many, many, many, many pages of environmental impact studies. This what we will bring it down to. This is less than two years. This is going to happen quickly. That’s what I’m signing today. This will be less than two years for a highway. So it’s going to be quick. It’s going to be a very streamlined process. And by the way, if it doesn’t meet environmental safeguards, we are not going to approve it. Very simple. We are not going to approve it. Maybe this one will say, let’s throw the other one away. Would anybody like it from the media? Would anybody like that long, beautiful chart? You can have it. So my executive order also requires agencies to work together efficiently by requiring one lead agency for each major infrastructure project. It also holds agencies accountable if they fail to streamline their review process.

So each agency is accountable. We’re going to get infrastructure built quickly, inexpensively, relatively speaking. And the permitting process will go very, very quickly. No longer will we tolerate one job killing delay after another. No longer will we accept a broken system that benefits consultants and lobbyists at the expense of hard-working Americans.

Now I knew the process very well, probably better than anybody. I had to get permits for this building and many of the buildings I built, all of the buildings I built in Manhattan and many other places. And I will tell you that the consultants are rich people. They go around making it very difficult. They lobby Congress. They lobby state government, city governments to make it very difficult so that you have to hire consultants and that you have to take years and pay them a fortune. So we are streamlining the process, and we won’t be having so much of that anymore. No longer will we allow the infrastructure of our magnificent country to crumble and decay. While protecting the environment, we will build gleaming new roads, bridges, railways, waterways, tunnels and highways. We will rebuild our country with American workers, American iron, American aluminum, American steel. We will create millions of new jobs and make millions of American dreams come true. Our infrastructure will again be the best in the world. We used to have the greatest infrastructure anywhere in the world. And today, we are like a third-world country. We are literally like a third-world country. Our infrastructure will again be the best. And we will restore the pride in our communities, our nation. And all over the United States will be proud again.

So I want to thank everybody for being here. God bless you. God bless the United States. And if you have any questions, we have Mick. You could come up here, please. Come on up. Mick Mulvaney.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

REPORTER: Why do you think these C.E.O.’s are leaving your manufacturing council?





TRUMP: Because they’re not taking their jobs seriously as it pertains to this country. But we want jobs, manufacturing in this country. If you look at some of those people that you are talking about, they are outside of the country. They are having a lot of their product made outside. If you look at Merck as an example, take a look — excuse me, excuse me — take a look at where their product is made. It’s made outside of our country. We want products made in the country. Now I have to tell you, some of the folks that will leave, they’re leaving out of embarrassment, because they make their products outside. And I have been lecturing them, including the gentleman that you are referring to, about you have to bring it back to this country. You can’t do it necessarily in Ireland and all of these other places. You have to bring this work back to this country. That’s what I want. I want manufacturing to be back into the United States so that American workers can benefit.

REPORTER: Why did you wait so long — [cross talk]

TRUMP: I didn’t wait long. I didn’t wait long. I wanted to make sure, unlike most politicians, that what I said was correct, not make a quick statement. The statement I made on Saturday, the first statement, was a fine statement but you don’t make statements that direct unless you know the facts. It takes a little while to get the facts. You still don’t know the facts. It is a very, very important process to me. It is a very important statement. So I don’t want to go quickly and just make a statement for the sake of making a political statement. I want to know the facts. If you go back to my statement, I brought it. I brought it.

[cross talk]

As I said, remember, Saturday, we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence. It has no place in America. And then I went on from there. Here is the thing. Excuse me. Take it nice and easy. Here is the thing. When I make a statement, I like to be correct. I want the facts. This event just happened. In fact, a lot of the event didn’t happen yet as we were speaking. This event just happened. Before I make a statement, I need the facts. So I don’t want to rush into a statement. So making the statement when I made it was excellent. In fact, the young woman, who I hear is a fantastic young woman, and it was on NBC, her mother wrote me and said through I guess Twitter, social media, the nicest things. And I very much appreciated that. I hear she was a fine, really actually, an incredible young woman. Her mother, on Twitter, thanked me for what I said. And honestly, if the press were not fake and if it was honest, the press would have said what I said was very nice. But unlike you … [cross talk]... and unlike the media, before I make a statement, I like to know the facts.

[cross talk]

How about a couple of infrastructure questions.

REPORTER: The C.E.O. of Walmart said you missed a critical opportunity to help bring the country together. Did you?

TRUMP: Not at all. I think the country — look, you take a look. I’ve created over a million jobs since I’m president. The country is booming. The stock market is setting records. We have the highest employment numbers we have ever had in the history of our country. We are doing record business. We have the highest levels of enthusiasm, so the head of Walmart, who I know, who’s a very nice guy, was making a political statement.

[cross talk]

I would do it the same way, because I want to make sure when I make a statement that the statement is correct. And there was no way of making a correct statement that early. I had to see the facts, unlike a lot of reporters. [cross talk] I didn’t know David Duke was there. I wanted to see the facts. And the facts, as they started coming out, were very well-stated. In fact, everybody said his statement was beautiful. If he would have made it sooner, that would have been good. I couldn’t have made it sooner, because I didn’t know all of the facts. Frankly, people still don’t know all of the facts. It was very important — [cross talk] excuse me, excuse me. It was very important to me to get the facts out and correctly. Because if I would have made a fast statement — and the first statement was made without knowing much other than what we were seeing. The second statement was made with knowledge, with great knowledge. There are still things — [cross talk] excuse me. There are still things that people don’t know. I want to make a statement with knowledge. I wanted to know the facts.

REPORTER: Two questions: Was this terrorism? And can you tell us how you are feeling about your chief strategist Steve Bannon?

TRUMP: Well I think the driver of the car is a disgrace to himself, his family and this country. You can call it terrorism. You can call it murder. You can call it whatever you want. I would just call it as the fastest one to come up with a good verdict. There is a question. Is it murder? Is it terrorism? Then you get into legal semantics. The driver of the car is a murderer. What he did was a horrible, horrible, inexcusable thing.





REPORTER: Can you tell us how you are feeling about your chief strategist, Mr. Bannon?

TRUMP: Go ahead.

ANOTHER REPORTER: Steve Bannon — I would echo Maggie’s question.

TRUMP: I never spoke to Mr. Bannon about it.

REPORTER: But can you tell us broadly, do you still have confidence in Steve?

TRUMP: Well, we’ll see… Look, look, I like Mr. Bannon. He is a friend of mine. Mr. Bannon came on very late. You know that. I went through 17 senators, governors and I won all the primaries. Mr. Bannon came on very much later than that. And I like him. He is a good man. He is not a racist. I can tell you that. He is a good person. He actually gets a very unfair press in that regard. We’ll see what happens with Mr. Bannon. He is a good person and I think the press treats him frankly very unfairly.

[cross talk]

REPORTER: Senator McCain has called on you to defend your national security adviser, H.R. McMaster against these attacks.

[cross talk]

TRUMP: I’ve already done … I did it the last time.

[cross talk]

REPORTER: … and he called on you again, linking it to the alt-Right…

[cross talk]

TRUMP: Senator McCain? You mean the one that voted against Obamacare? You mean Senator McCain who voted against us getting good health care?

REPORTER: Senator McCain said that the alt-right is behind these and he linked that same group to those that perpetrated the attack in Charlottesville.

TRUMP: Well, I don’t know. I can’t tell you. I’m sure Senator McCain must know what he is talking about. When you say the alt-right. Define alt-right to me. You define it. Go ahead. No, define it for me. Come on. Let’s go.





REPORTER: Senator McCain defined them as the same group —

[cross talk]

TRUMP: What about the alt-left that came charging at — Excuse me — What about the alt-left that came charging at the, as you say, the alt-right? Do they have any semblance of guilt? [cross talk] Let me ask you this: What about the fact that they came charging, that they came charging with clubs in their hands swinging clubs? Do they have any problem? I think they do. So, you know, as far as I’m concerned, that was a horrible, horrible day.

[cross talk]

Wait a minute. I’m not finished. I’m not finished, fake news. That was a horrible day.

[cross talk]

TRUMP: I will tell you something. I watched those very closely, much more closely than you people watched it. And you had a group on one side that was bad and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. And nobody wants to say that. But I’ll say it right now.

[cross talk]

You had a group on the other side that came charging in without a permit and they were very, very violent.

REPORTER: Do you think that what you call the alt-left is the same as neo-Nazis?

TRUMP: All of those people — Excuse me — I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue, Robert E. Lee.

So — excuse me — and you take a look at some of the groups and you see and you would know it if you were honest reporters, which in many cases, you are not. But, many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. So this week, it is Robert E. Lee. I noticed that Stonewall Jackson is coming down. I wonder, is it George Washington next week? And is it Thomas Jefferson the week after? You know, you really do have to ask yourself, where does it stop?

But they were there to protest — excuse me — you take a look, the night before, they were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. Infrastructure question. Go ahead.

REPORTER: Does the statue of Robert E. Lee stay up?

TRUMP: I would say that is up to a local town, community or the federal government, depending on where it is located.





REPORTER: Are you against the Confederacy?

REPORTER: How concerned are you about race relations in America and do you think things have gotten worse or better since you took office?

TRUMP: I think they’ve gotten better or the same. Look they have been frayed for a long time. And you can ask President Obama about that because he would make speeches about it.

But I believe that the fact that I brought in, it will be soon, millions of jobs, you see where companies are moving back into our country. I think that’s going to have a tremendous positive impact on race relations.

We have companies coming back into our country. We have two car companies that just announced. We have Foxconn in Wisconsin, just announced. We have many companies, I say, pouring back into the country. I think that’s going to have a huge, positive impact on race relations.

You know why? It is jobs. What people want now, they want jobs. They want great jobs with good pay. And when they have that, you watch how race relations will be. And I’ll tell you we are spending a lot of money on the inner cities. We are gonna fix, we are fixing the inner cities. We are doing far more than anybody has done with respect to the inner cities. It is a priority for me. And it’s very important.

REPORTER: Mr. President, are you putting what you are calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?

TRUMP: I am not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other and they came at each other with clubs and it was vicious and horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch. But there is another side. There was a group on this side, you can call them the left. You have just called them the left, that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

REPORTER: You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides?

TRUMP: Well I do think there’s blame. Yes, I think there is blame on both sides. You look at both sides. I think there is blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it. And you don’t have doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say.





REPORTER: The neo-Nazis started this thing. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest —

TRUMP: Excuse me. They didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis. And you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides.

You had people in that group — excuse me, excuse me — I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.

[cross talk]

TRUMP: George Washington as a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down — excuse me — are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him. Good.

Are we going to take down the statue? Cause he was a major slave owner. Are we going to take down his statue? So you know what? It’s fine. You are changing history, you’re changing culture. You had people and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally. You had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. O.K.? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group too.

REPORTER: Who has the press treated unfairly? Sir, I’m sorry, I just didn’t understand what you were saying. You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly? I just didn’t understand what you were saying.

TRUMP: No, no. There were people in that rally. I looked the night before. If you look, they were people protesting very quietly the taking down the statue of Robert E. Lee. I am sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day, it looked like they had some rough, bad people, neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them. But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest.

Because I don’t know if you know, they had a permit. The other group didn’t have a permit. So I only tell you this. There are two sides to a story. I thought what took place was a horrible moment for our country, a horrible moment. But there are two sides to the country. Does anybody have a final question? Do you have an infrastructure question?





REPORTER: What makes you think you can get an infrastructure bill? You didn’t get health care, you didn’t get tax reform...

TRUMP: Well, you know, I’ll tell you. We came very close with health care. Unfortunately, John McCain decided to vote against it at the last minute. You’ll have to ask John McCain why he did that. But we came very close to health care. We will end up getting health care. But we’ll get the infrastructure. And actually infrastructure is something I think we’ll have bipartisan support on. I actually think Democrats will go along with the infrastructure.

REPORTER: Mr. President, have you spoken to the family of the victim of the car attack?

TRUMP: No. I will be reaching out.

REPORTER: When will you be reaching out?

TRUMP: I thought that the statement put out, the mother’s statement, I thought was a beautiful statement. I tell you, it was something that I really appreciated. I thought it was terrific. Under the kind of stress that she is under and the heartache that she is under, I thought putting out that statement to me was really something I won’t forget. Thank you all very much. Thank you.

REPORTER: Do you plan to go to Charlottesville, Mr. President?

[cross talk]

TRUMP: Does anyone know I own a house in Charlottesville? It is in Charlottesville. You’ll see.

REPORTER: Is that the winery?

TRUMP: It is the winery. [cross talk] I mean, I know a lot about Charlottesville. Charlottesville is a great place that’s been very badly hurt over the last couple of days. I own actually one of the largest wineries in the United States. It’s in Charlottesville.

REPORTER: What do you think needs to be done to overcome the racial divides in this country?

TRUMP: I really think jobs can have a big impact. I think if we continue to create jobs, over a million, substantially more than a million. And you see just the other day, the car companies coming in, with Foxconn. I think if we continue to create jobs at levels that I’m creating jobs, I think that’s going to have a tremendous impact, positive impact, on race relations.

REPORTER: What you said today, how do you think that will impact the racial —?

TRUMP: Because the people are going to be working. They’re going to be making a lot of money, much more than they ever thought possible. That’s going to happen. The other thing, very important: I believe wages will start going up. They haven’t gone up for a long time. I believe wages now, because the economy is doing so well, with respect to employment and unemployment, I believe wages will start to go up. I think that will have a tremendously positive impact on race relations. Thank you.

Correct. The left has been doing this since they said Bush only won because the mythical "angry white men" effect.

John, when the left convinces themselves that everyone who disagrees with them about anything is evil, that makes them feel better about losing. Because losing is acceptable, even virtuous, if you convince yourself that at least you took the high road, and everyone else is deplorable and irredeemable.

If I went to protest the removal of a confederate statue as one of the good people Trump claims were there ..and people around me showed up with torchs and nazi flags and anti Jewish slogans . And I didn't leave.. I need to re consider my choices . just saying.
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CtJim. Are you saying white supremesists are not evil??
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You should be able to find it online fairly easy so you can make your own judgments.
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I looked. I saw nothing that any sane person could interpret as defending the actions of the white supremacists. All I saw was his condemning the violence and bigotry. Have you seen such language from Trump? Can you post a link?

CtJim. Are you saying white supremesists are not evil??
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Please post exactly what I said, that could possibly make you think, I don't consider them to be evil.

I read TDF's posts, every word. I don't see how a rational person could read that, and even come close to concluding that Trump "defended" the white supremacists. Because he said some people in the crowd were good people? How do we know there weren't some non-violent people there, who simply don't agree with taking the statues down? Condaleeza Rice said this week, she doesn't think the statues should come down. Oh my God, she's a white supremacist!!!! We had a white supremacist as sec state!!!

I read TDF's posts, every word. I don't see how a rational person could read that, and even come close to concluding that Trump "defended" the white supremacists. Because he said some people in the crowd were good people? How do we know there weren't some non-violent people there, who simply don't agree with taking the statues down? Condaleeza Rice said this week, she doesn't think the statues should come down. Oh my God, she's a white supremacist!!!! We had a white supremacist as sec state!!!

Right, but when he says "some" people come across the border and are rapist and murderers he means "all" Mexicans. It's confusing .
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"you also had people that were VERY FINE people on BOTH sides."

perhaps you missed that comment which is similar to his original comment 'many sides' and his many comments suggesting that people on both sides are to blame...which is an obvious and disgusting attempt at moral equivalence. that is beneath the office of the presidency regardless of party and it should be an outrage that unites us all...

"you also had people that were VERY FINE people on BOTH sides."

perhaps you missed that comment which is similar to his original comment 'many sides' and his many comments suggesting that people on both sides are to blame...which is an obvious and disgusting attempt at moral equivalence. that is beneath the office of the presidency regardless of party and it should be an outrage that unites us all...

Don't forget the Neo Nazis had permits. The people protesting against them didn't.

"you also had people that were VERY FINE people on BOTH sides."

perhaps you missed that comment which is similar to his original comment 'many sides' and his many comments suggesting that people on both sides are to blame...which is an obvious and disgusting attempt at moral equivalence. that is beneath the office of the presidency regardless of party and it should be an outrage that unites us all...

There were people on multiple sides to blame. there were also more than just two sides. you had two groups of a-holes that escalated this situation this weekend, Neo-nazis and ANTIFA....both groups need to share the blame for what happened this weekend.

Don't forget the Neo Nazis had permits. The people protesting against them didn't.

That's that pesky 1st amendment again. they are allowed to be there, no matter how much people hate them.

There were people on multiple sides to blame. there were also more than just two sides. you had two groups of a-holes that escalated this situation this weekend, Neo-nazis and ANTIFA....both groups need to share the blame for what happened this weekend.

disagree kevin. there may be a-holes and jerks all around but that is not equivalent to neo-nazis and white supremacists. we fought a war about this

That's that pesky 1st amendment again. they are allowed to be there, no matter how much people hate them.

I don't dispute that but to use that as argument how that 'side' had a right to be there vs the 'other side' didn't by the president is a gross way to express the importance of first amendment rights when it comes to a neo Nazi march that resulted the death of an innocent woman....

"you also had people that were VERY FINE people on BOTH sides."

perhaps you missed that comment which is similar to his original comment 'many sides' and his many comments suggesting that people on both sides are to blame...which is an obvious and disgusting attempt at moral equivalence. that is beneath the office of the presidency regardless of party and it should be an outrage that unites us all...

I addressed that. How do you know there weren't good people, who were there to peacefully protest taking down the statues? He specifically condemned the violence and bigotry, so it stands to reason that when he says there were "good people" in the crowd, he's referring to the ones that aren't violent bigots. If there are any, and maybe there weren't, in which case he was wrong.

Should he have phrased it differently? Sure. But it's not like he said "boy those white supremacists, I totally sympathize with their mission. I mean I live in New York, and if anyone has a reason to really despise blacks, it's me. In fact, let me write a big, fat check to the Klan right now". People are reacting as if that's what he said. He condemned violence and bigotry on all sides. "All sides" necessarily includes the side that the Nazis were on.

Now, I remember a long car ride when I was 8, I was in the back seat with my 12 year old brother. At one point he punched me in the head, I let out a large cry, and my dad (who was driving and stressed out) yelled "you two knock it off!!" Now, should he have yelled at my brother more than me? Sure. Did I conclude he liked what my brother did? Of course not. He used a poor choice of words.

If you want to say that Trump could have done more to single out the side that caused most of this, fine. To say he "defended" the Nazis? It's bonkers. Someone here suggested Trump is responsible for a synagogue that was vandalized. His daughter and son-in-law, both of whom Trump obviously adores, are Jews.

You can't have a rational conversation about Trump, with many liberals, including most of the media. You just can't. Maybe they were so embarrassed by ALL saying that the only thing not known on election night, was how lopsided Hilary's victory would be...maybe that shame and humiliation caused all of them to blow a gasket.

disagree kevin. there may be a-holes and jerks all around but that is not equivalent to neo-nazis and white supremacists. we fought a war about this

I never said anything about the quality of the people, I said more than one side gets to share in the blame.

ANTIFA started pushing and shoving and that's when the chit hit the fan. That woman may still be alive if people just let those asshats say there stupid BS rhetoric and moved on.

Nobody in their right mine is going to put neo nazis on a moral pedestal
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I never said anything about the quality of the people, I said more than one side gets to share in the blame.

ANTIFA started pushing and shoving and that's when the chit hit the fan. That woman may still be alive if people just let those asshats say there stupid BS rhetoric and moved on.

Nobody in their right mine is going to put neo nazis on a moral pedestal
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WoW you just blamed someone else for the cause of this women's death other than the neo Nazi driving the car ... spoken like a true trumpanzee

I addressed that. How do you know there weren't good people, who were there to peacefully protest taking down the statues?


If I went to protest the removal of a confederate statue as one of the good people Trump claims were there ..and people around me showed up with torchs and nazi flags and anti Jewish slogans . And I didn't leave.. I need to re consider my choices . just saying.

If they stayed and joined in the rally with everything happening around them they lose their good people Status :btu:

No one who thinks the color of their skin or their religion is better than someone else is a good person. And I think you can lump all of the alt right into that group, no ?
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WoW you just blamed someone else for the cause of this women's death other than the neo Nazi driving the car ... spoken like a true trumpanzee

English is a second language to you isn't it??

You also can't comprehend how the whole chain of events started with a single event. A single push set everything in motion.

Just imagine how 2004 might have been if Roberts got thrown out at second.

And you must live in an alternate reality where you think I voted for, or even like him. But glad to see you get to use your new Buzzword.
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Inadvertently stumbled upon a blm rally in Charleston tonight on my way to eat the best steak I ever sank my teeth into . They were huddled around a statue of a redneck named Calhoun. One person out of the 50 or so was black🤷🏿#^&♂️. This has given a cause to liberals who simply look for a cause. People need to get something to rally around but Kaepernick found it before Trump was even elected. Yet some folks like Wayne want to pretend it started with the cheetoh.
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I read TDF's posts, every word. I don't see how a rational person could read that, and even come close to concluding that Trump "defended" the white supremacists. Because he said some people in the crowd were good people? How do we know there weren't some non-violent people there, who simply don't agree with taking the statues down? Condaleeza Rice said this week, she doesn't think the statues should come down. Oh my God, she's a white supremacist!!!! We had a white supremacist as sec state!!!

The fact he didn't take the opportunity to specifically and IMMEDIATELY call out those groups for what they are and in the strongest language tell them by name, we as Americans will never allow your BS to gain momentum.

A strong leader with any common sense would still be able comment on people going too far and operating outside the freedoms of free speech on both sides and STILL take a very hard line stance on what those Nazi F-heads and white supremacists are spouting. He has no moral backbone at all, he clearly showed that in his private life, nothing has changed. He can come down hard and easily label the fake media, the lying Clinton's, the nut job FBI director, emasculate his own attorney general and other appointed cabinet members; but he can't label these groups for what they are?

I'm so glad I cast my vote elsewhere and not because I thought Hilary was that much better, mainly because I see this clown for what he is. I get there is a lot of bad corruption in Washington. I get there is way too much government. I get that term limits are way out of line. I get that things are way over regulated. I get all these things, so you Trump supporters, who love to post links, complete transcripts of the latest news conference and spout what has been so wrong for so long, you don't have to convince me we need change; I just don't see this guy being the answer. In fact I think he has become part of the problem, because his inability to take the fing reigns and govern means we all loose.

Where is the leadership? Where is the ground breaking legislation? Where is the new health care he promised for all and that it would happen quickly; the same day in fact......what a naive idiot to think that coming in. Where is the Mexican financed wall? Tax reform, better lock up Twitter and get to work. You have stiffened the boarders and made us weaker in our own back yard.

I hope for us all that he somehow get's his #^&#^&#^&#^& together. I hope for us all he can grow a pair and ignore the noise and do some God damn presidential governing; but I just think this guy is a big fat looser and I'm really not confident he can thicken his skin, get off his Twitter account long enough to do some actual governing.

Both sides ARE to blame. It is not a question of moral equivalency. If you break it down the @$$hole Gooose Stepping WhiteNats had a permit under the First Ammendment to show what @$$holes they are.

Then the GooseStepping Communists (admittedly the historical counter to Nazis if you look at history) started their sheit - again.

Both Antifa and the NeoNazis are complete and utter scum. One has cover by 1A and the other has cover by 1A and the Press. Both are incompatible with liberty.

If the Nazis/WhiteNays come to do a protest I might counter protest, but not if the effing commies are going to be there.

You wanna know a good indicator of how socialism/communism sucks so bad? The East German beer tasted like #^&#^&#^&#^& compared to west German beer.

Inadvertently stumbled upon a blm rally in Charleston tonight on my way to eat the best steak I ever sank my teeth into . They were huddled around a statue of a redneck named Calhoun. One person out of the 50 or so was black🤷🏿#^&♂️. This has given a cause to liberals who simply look for a cause. People need to get something to rally around but Kaepernick found it before Trump was even elected. Yet some folks like Wayne want to pretend it started with the cheetoh.
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Yep. ^^ This.

The same folks who condemn The Cheato for not using strong enough language regarding the latest struggle were silent when Obama refused to single out radical Islamic terrorism. Funny how convenient it becomes when it suits the agenda ..
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This You Tube video clarifies who the fascists really are--and some of the roots of the Charlottesville violence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNrytSEyUoY

Then there's this from someone who was at the protest. Note how radical, uncivilized, extreme, unreasonable, fascistic, and all-around evil and disgusting Faith Goldy is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UpF8H1Zjcw

Inadvertently stumbled upon a blm rally in Charleston tonight on my way to eat the best steak I ever sank my teeth into . They were huddled around a statue of a redneck named Calhoun. One person out of the 50 or so was black🤷🏿#^&♂️. This has given a cause to liberals who simply look for a cause. People need to get something to rally around but Kaepernick found it before Trump was even elected. Yet some folks like Wayne want to pretend it started with the cheetoh.
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Funny some people are more upset over Kaepernick .. And I see no support for him exercising his 1st Amendment rights .. but Nazis thats different ... the problem is you thought this was never a problem .. theses people have always been around in the shadows as I said some blame O for BLM but wont hold the Cheeto same standard ..

The same folks who condemn The Cheato for not using strong enough language regarding the latest struggle were silent when Obama refused to single out radical Islamic terrorism. Funny how convenient it becomes when it suits the agenda ..
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Trump loves saying “radical Islamic terrorism.” He has a tough time with “white supremacy.”


So should Trump call them Radical Christian White supremacy terrorism how would that go over with his base ???

read up O has explained many time why he wouldn't use “radical Islamic terrorism.” seem's you conveniently forgot who those people were who were most upset about Him not saying that... and how it fit their agenda.. FYI : the Right

not that they aren't deplorable, but you don't really hear much from these skin head/supremist/nazi whatevers very often.....you do, on the other hand...frequently hear from and witness the carnage from the other groups mentioned here on a regular basis, particularly over the last dozen years....and they easily lead the league in death, mayhem and destruction during that time...

Funny some people are more upset over Kaepernick .. And I see no support for him exercising his 1st Amendment rights .. but Nazis thats different ... ..

the question was never whether Kaepernick could exercise his 1st Amendment right..he's free to do so...the 1st Amendment limits government's(Congress shall make no law) ability to prevent him from doing so....says nothing regarding an employer's ability to prevent him from doing so through policy, punishment or dismissal....or other "companies" from refusing to hire him because they disagree with his views...where it applies to the knuckleheads in Charleston...they have the right to free speech and to peaceably assemble...seems civil disobedience has become a trending and popular form of protest

Funny how convenient it becomes when it suits the agenda ..

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this is a constant

brilliantly stated...

"The current attack on Confederate monuments is only another front in the Left’s endless kulturkampf. The Left is committed to always being on the offense in the culture wars, and, with Donald Trump and his white-resentment politics installed in the White House and Republicans lined up queasily behind him, the choice of going after Confederate totems is clever. It brings out the kooks and the cranks, and some respectable conservatives feel obliged to defend them. Getting Republicans to re-litigate the Civil War is a great victory for the Democrats, who were, after all, on the wrong side of it as a matter of historical fact."

so you Trump supporters, who love to post links, complete transcripts of the latest news conference and spout what has been so wrong for so long, you don't have to convince me we need change; I just don't see this guy being the answer.

This is what I love about this forum. A thread about the Charlottesville riot and arguing about Trumps inability to lead, someone says they didn't see the presidents comments. I post the Press Conference so he can see said comments....BOOM!!!! TRUMP SUPPORTER!!!

Sorry I thought that the actual comments said were relevant to the conversation, and the actual timeline of events might be important as well.

Carry On....

So should Trump call them Radical Christian White supremacy terrorism how would that go over with his base ???



were they protesting in the name of Christ?...musta missed that

[QUOTE=wdmso;1126413


So should Trump call them Radical Christian White supremacy terrorism how would that go over with his base ???

[/QUOTE]

Describe Trumps base for me please . I need a good laugh
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August 16, 2017

"A bronze statue of George Washington on horseback stands at the corner of 51st and King Drive, at the northwest entrance to Washington Park. Bishop James Dukes, pastor of Liberation Christian Center, said he wants the statue gone, and he wants George Washington’s name removed from the park. The pastor also said President Andrew Jackson’s name should be removed from nearby Jackson Park, because he also was a slave owner. He said he’s not necessarily asking the city rename the parks altogether. He suggested Washington Park could be named after former Mayor Harold Washington, and Jackson Park could be named after civil rights leader Rev. Jesse Jackson or singer Michael Jackson."


yes...let's name playgrounds after Michael Jackson :laugha::huh:

This is what I love about this forum. A thread about the Charlottesville riot and arguing about Trumps inability to lead, someone says they didn't see the presidents comments. I post the Press Conference so he can see said comments....BOOM!!!! TRUMP SUPPORTER!!!

Sorry I thought that the actual comments said were relevant to the conversation, and the actual timeline of events might be important as well.

Carry On....
I stated someone might not have seen the interview, never asked to see it word for word. My problem with Trump isn't with what he said, it's for what he didn't say at the very beginning. You can point out people from both sides did wrong, but not taking that initial oportunity to call a spade a spade is why I think he just isn't the leader many (even his own party are scratching their heads on this one) had hoped he might evolve into.

This is what I love about this forum. A thread about the Charlottesville riot and arguing about Trumps inability to lead, someone says they didn't see the presidents comments. I post the Press Conference so he can see said comments....BOOM!!!! TRUMP SUPPORTER!!!

Sorry I thought that the actual comments said were relevant to the conversation, and the actual timeline of events might be important as well.

Carry On....

You didn't know you were being set up? That's why I told him to watch for himself. He was looking for someone to report their opinion so he could attack it. No one did. But you posted next. As I tell my kids, I hope you learned from that mistake. Go in peace.
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The same folks who condemn The Cheato for not using strong enough language regarding the latest struggle were silent when Obama refused to single out radical Islamic terrorism. Funny how convenient it becomes when it suits the agenda ..
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Well that is not fair. Everyone knows Obama, the pillar of repeatable integrity, would quickly call out terrorism when it was likely/possibly Islamic Extremism at the last possible moment, just like when police officers act stupidly. But then again, it really is not fair to cherry pick examples like I just did.



Funny some people are more upset over Kaepernick .. And I see no support for him exercising his 1st Amendment rights .. but Nazis thats different ... the problem is you thought this was never a problem .. theses people have always been around in the shadows as I said some blame O for BLM but wont hold the Cheeto same standard ..

1A is not that and you know better. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances"

Kaepernick was not arrested nor detained. He has been praised by some, criticized by others, as a result of his actions. Like the Nazis, CK was exercising his 1A rights - should he be denied them? If he chooses not to be peaceful, and same for Nazis or Antifa, he should be considered a candidate for arrest and charges.

Nazis, WhiteNats, as abhorrent as they are, do have the right under the Constitution to peacefully assemble and they were doing their "redress of grievances". The same rights that BLM, World Without Police, and the Antifa Communists that ironically would impose a state that prevents freedom of speech and liberty.

When we allow politicians and groups with agendas to start picking and choosing what citizens are offered Constitutional protection and what citizens are not, we have failed.




were they protesting in the name of Christ?...musta missed that

Some were protesting that way and some have that as part of their core belief.

were they protesting in the name of Christ?...musta missed that

Well by process of elimination, it wasn't in the name of Judaism, Islam, Santeria, .....

White, European heritage is usually Christian. But nobody said they were doing in the name of all Christians, just the twisted view of these Nazis and White Supremacists. Oh and those 2 fine people that were only there to protest the potential removal of a statue.
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Trump loves saying “radical Islamic terrorism.” He has a tough time with “white supremacy.”


So should Trump call them Radical Christian White supremacy terrorism how would that go over
read up O has explained many time why he wouldn't use “radical Islamic terrorism.” seem's you conveniently forgot who those people were who were most upset about Him not saying that... and how it fit their agenda.. FYI : the Right

Nothing personal,but you honestly have a difficult time with the comprehension skills. Communication becomes futile with folks with limited skills. Go back to your Obama altar and enjoy your alternative universe.
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You didn't know you were being set up? That's why I told him to watch for himself. He was looking for someone to report their opinion so he could attack it. No one did. But you posted next. As I tell my kids, I hope you learned from that mistake. Go in peace.
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Jim didn't say boo about it, not sure how that was a setup. Guy says he was camping, didn't see it. I showed him.

How is that a setup.

Strange rules in this twisted universe
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The fact he didn't take the opportunity to specifically and IMMEDIATELY call out those groups for what they are and in the strongest language tell them by name, we as Americans will never allow your BS to gain momentum.

A strong leader with any common sense would still be able comment on people going too far and operating outside the freedoms of free speech on both sides and STILL take a very hard line stance on what those Nazi F-heads and white supremacists are spouting. He has no moral backbone at all, he clearly showed that in his private life, nothing has changed. He can come down hard and easily label the fake media, the lying Clinton's, the nut job FBI director, emasculate his own attorney general and other appointed cabinet members; but he can't label these groups for what they are?

I'm so glad I cast my vote elsewhere and not because I thought Hilary was that much better, mainly because I see this clown for what he is. I get there is a lot of bad corruption in Washington. I get there is way too much government. I get that term limits are way out of line. I get that things are way over regulated. I get all these things, so you Trump supporters, who love to post links, complete transcripts of the latest news conference and spout what has been so wrong for so long, you don't have to convince me we need change; I just don't see this guy being the answer. In fact I think he has become part of the problem, because his inability to take the fing reigns and govern means we all loose.

Where is the leadership? Where is the ground breaking legislation? Where is the new health care he promised for all and that it would happen quickly; the same day in fact......what a naive idiot to think that coming in. Where is the Mexican financed wall? Tax reform, better lock up Twitter and get to work. You have stiffened the boarders and made us weaker in our own back yard.

I hope for us all that he somehow get's his #^&#^&#^&#^& together. I hope for us all he can grow a pair and ignore the noise and do some God damn presidential governing; but I just think this guy is a big fat looser and I'm really not confident he can thicken his skin, get off his Twitter account long enough to do some actual governing.

"A strong leader with any common sense "

He's not a strong leader and he doesn't have a lot of common sense. That's not remotely the same thing, as him being a Nazi sympathizer.

You were the one who implied he is somehow to blame for a synagogue getting vandalized. Ivanka and her husband are Jews.

Criticize him all day long for being a bully, a jerk, a baby, a narcissist., a womanizer. There is all the evidence in the world that he is all of those things. There is zero evidence he sympathizes with white supremacists, and plenty of evidence he condemns them.

Well by process of elimination, it wasn't in the name of Judaism, Islam, Santeria, .....

White, European heritage is usually Christian. But nobody said they were doing in the name of all Christians, just the twisted view of these Nazis and White Supremacists. Oh and those 2 fine people that were only there to protest the potential removal of a statue.
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we know that Jesus was both a man of color and a Jew/the original Christian...and probably opposed slavery....so not sure how Nazis and White Supremacists can be labeled or lumped in with or as being "Christians"?

were they protesting in the name of Christ?...musta missed that

Sure, because Jesus was obviously a white supremacist. Don't you know anything?

Sure, because Jesus was obviously a white supremacist. Don't you know anything?

he did have those 12 slaves that he liked to order around

You didn't know you were being set up? That's why I told him to watch for himself. He was looking for someone to report their opinion so he could attack it. No one did. But you posted next. As I tell my kids, I hope you learned from that mistake. Go in peace.
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I was looking for someone to show me a clip, or a transcript, that could rationally lead one to conclude that Trump supported the Nazis. TDF posted the transcript. I saw zilch in there that could be reasonably be interpreted, as defense of bigotry. I saw the opposite. And I do not like Trump one bit. But I am fair about it.

How did I set TDF up? What did I do with what he posted? Did I use it against him? I read it, and concluded that if Trump says "I condemn bigotry and violence" 35 times, I conclude he's therefore not a Nazi sympathizer. If Trump says "I condemn bigotry", and everyone on the left hears "I like bigotry", I think that's your problem, not his problem.

...telling that you all seem to need to still blame obama...trump is at the helm and all of you wiggling and making excuses and lowering the bar of what should be acceptable from our president is pathetic and ultimately dangerous...this is not about party, this is about being an american (not arguing about the right to demonstrate and free speech but about hate that resulted in the death of an innocent women and our president's bizarre and naive reaction to it - that is quite different than each of us parsing through nuances of how we each feel which we clearly have a right to do)...and your attempts to morally equivocate nazi's to people protesting them is disturbing and ignorant...perhaps read a bit more history as well explain to many people died fighting those f'ers...

you know those aren't real nazis right?....knuckle heads that like to dress up like nazis like it's halloween or something...the real nazis actually committed atrocities, a LONG time ago...check your history...these are mostly cowards and mentally defective individuals(that could be insensitive or not...hard to tell these days) looking for attention...and in some cases left wing activists dressed up to try to promote the idea through the compliant media that there is some huge nazi movement crisis in America

...telling that you all seem to need to still blame obama...trump is at the helm and all of you wiggling and making excuses and lowering the bar of what should be acceptable from our president is pathetic and ultimately dangerous...this is not about party, this is about being an american (not arguing about the right to demonstrate and free speech but about hate that resulted in the death of an innocent women and our president's bizarre and naive reaction to it - that is quite different than each of us parsing through nuances of how we each feel which we clearly have a right to do)...and your attempts to morally equivocate nazi's to people protesting them is disturbing and ignorant...perhaps read a bit more history as well explain to many people died fighting those f'ers...

Gotta run because of work but a couple points:



Hold ALL politicians to a higher standard regardless of party
Historical context between administrations does matter
I really think Trump is a fool and a tool but he has not been afforded the same level of top cover that a Dem would get - because of Bias.
That bias and the disastrous polices of Dem Politicians are why I am no longer a Democrat but a moderate, unaffiliated, generally independent
I will put my history knowledge as better than 90% here - which is why I equate evil Commies with Evil Nazis
I think the US Constitution is the greatest document to protect human kind ever
The First Amendment even protects a s s hole Nazis and Klans and white Suprems - just as it protects good people like us and just as it protects those that would undermine it like Communitst, ANTIFA, Anarchists, etc.
If you cannot separate why that is a good thing, even if it protects the despicable showboating of the Nazis then you do not understand or give enough emphasis on the environment that allowed the original Nazis (or Commies) space to grow.

We can have a further discuss later - perfect happy too.

So all this speak of Nazis and racists and slave owners of the past, are we still diligent about a terrorist attack? stupid distraction, more tearing down of a president and gives young liberals a cause to get behind. How about go to work and work hard.
this thread is a communication nightmare

you know those aren't real nazis right?....knuckle heads that like to dress up like nazis like it's halloween or something...the real nazis actually committed atrocities, a LONG time ago...check your history...these are mostly cowards and mentally defective individuals(that could be insensitive or not...hard to tell these days) looking for attention...and in some cases left wing activists dressed up to try to promote the idea through the compliant media that there is some huge nazi movement crisis in America

You sounded rational until you end it with a conspiracy theory ..
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You sounded rational until you end it with a conspiracy theory ..
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I wouldn't want to disappoint you :bl:

So all this speak of Nazis and racists and slave owners of the past, are we still diligent about a terrorist attack? stupid distraction, more tearing down of a president and gives young liberals a cause to get behind. How about go to work and work hard.
this thread is a communication nightmare

No one had an issue trying to tear down the last president for 8 years Why is this unacceptable now?
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Gotta run because of work but a couple points:



Hold ALL politicians to a higher standard regardless of party
Historical context between administrations does matter
I really think Trump is a fool and a tool but he has not been afforded the same level of top cover that a Dem would get - because of Bias.
That bias and the disastrous polices of Dem Politicians are why I am no longer a Democrat but a moderate, unaffiliated, generally independent
I will put my history knowledge as better than 90% here - which is why I equate evil Commies with Evil Nazis
I think the US Constitution is the greatest document to protect human kind ever
The First Amendment even protects a s s hole Nazis and Klans and white Suprems - just as it protects good people like us and just as it protects those that would undermine it like Communitst, ANTIFA, Anarchists, etc.
If you cannot separate why that is a good thing, even if it protects the despicable showboating of the Nazis then you do not understand or give enough emphasis on the environment that allowed the original Nazis (or Commies) space to grow.

We can have a further discuss later - perfect happy too.


I dont disagree with most of what you have said. However, how Trump has handled what happened in Charlottesville was careless and offensive and ultimately I fear dangerous. There should not be much disagreement about that.

And I am adjusting my history knowledge down from 90% to better than 80% here on further reflection ; ) .

:faga:

I dont disagree with most of what you have said. However, how Trump has handled what happened in Charlottesville was careless and offensive and ultimately I fear dangerous. There should not be much disagreement about that.

I agree - like many things he has handled it poorly. He could screw up a sunny fall afternoon.

BUT I do think that it is unfair and unwise to say a there is no moral equivalent between the utlra right and their spew with the utlra left and theirs. Because Nazis.

That is a very simplistic and reactionary response that does not delve into WHY it is wrong and WHY other movements are also wrong. But is the response many make in their sky-is-falling kabuki theater rants.

Good couple of posts and Boss as always, you are the voice of reason.

Because Nazis.



I suspect the real nazis would be pretty depressed seeing their movement now represented by a bunch of toothless goobers playing dress up on occasion...

do we know who is in charge?

No one had an issue trying to tear down the last president for 8 years Why is this unacceptable now?
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No One......really??? NO ONE????

its just the other side of the same coin.

"A strong leader with any common sense "

He's not a strong leader and he doesn't have a lot of common sense. That's not remotely the same thing, as him being a Nazi sympathizer.

You were the one who implied he is somehow to blame for a synagogue getting vandalized. Ivanka and her husband are Jews.

Criticize him all day long for being a bully, a jerk, a baby, a narcissist., a womanizer. There is all the evidence in the world that he is all of those things. There is zero evidence he sympathizes with white supremacists, and plenty of evidence he condemns them.

I never blamed Trump for the Jewish memorial being trashed for a second time, but I think the rhetoric he used all throughout the campaign and since validates and in some cases encourages these nuts to take action where maybe without that presidential OK they might not have. I wouldn't have to look far to bring numerous examples of Trumps words encouraging violence throughout his campaign and since.

The 900+ hate groups in this country love this POTUS; just ask David Duke. It's sad that we have this many hate groups in the USA, I was somewhat surprised to see the scope of that list this morning. I also think it's sad that we have so many disillusioned youths in this country, that might not have any affiliation with these groups, but might be more easily pushed towards violence with all the attention this is getting.

Yeah I agree the media is brutal towards Trump, but if you keep throwing a nice chunk of Bunker in front of their face every single day, they are going to take the bait. Hey it is fishing board guys, lets have a little humor, this board, the media and everything you read is just do depressing.

I've said it before, I hope Trump just get's his head out of his arse and gets back on the task of governing. It's no secret I think he is a clown, but for the sake of the country and the well being of us all, I wish he turns this around soon. Take the news clip I just saw briefly over lunch and let me say up front, I don't know if this is true or not. If Trump is now looking to save the Robert E. Lee statue, I have to shake my head and say are you Fing kidding me. The guy just doesn't know when to change the rhetoric and the course of things towards a solution or to take positive steps to diffuse a bad situation. Instead let's throw more wood on the fire and suggest a man that tried to take the country down and was a known brutal slave owner, that his likeness is somehow something we should look up to.

I just have to question is he even listening to the people around him? He is a gut jerk, reactionary, thin skinned fool.

Yes Bob, he sure is not Ronald Reagan that's for sure.

No one had an issue trying to tear down the last president for 8 years Why is this unacceptable now?
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"No one" is quite an exaggeration but you are entitled to your opinion. I personally had a problem with the disrespect of the last president and it is uncalled for now no matter how much of a horrible person you think he is.

I did not say it's unacceptable now suddenly.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but there should be a certain amount of respect.

Maybe he can get some negotiations done while battling everyone including media bashing 24/7, who knows, time will tell. I see his counterpunch got the mental guy in NK to back off the launch button at least.

I never blamed Trump for the Jewish memorial being trashed for a second time, but I think the rhetoric he used all throughout the campaign and since validates and in some cases encourages these nuts to take action where maybe without that presidential OK they might not have. I wouldn't have to look far to bring numerous examples of Trumps words encouraging violence throughout his campaign and since.

The 900+ hate groups in this country love this POTUS; just ask David Duke. It's sad that we have this many hate groups in the USA, I was somewhat surprised to see the scope of that list this morning. I also think it's sad that we have so many disillusioned youths in this country, that might not have any affiliation with these groups, but might be more easily pushed towards violence with all the attention this is getting.

Yeah I agree the media is brutal towards Trump, but if you keep throwing a nice chunk of Bunker in front of their face every single day, they are going to take the bait. Hey it is fishing board guys, lets have a little humor, this board, the media and everything you read is just do depressing.

I've said it before, I hope Trump just get's his head out of his arse and gets back on the task of governing. It's no secret I think he is a clown, but for the sake of the country and the well being of us all, I wish he turns this around soon. Take the news clip I just saw briefly over lunch and let me say up front, I don't know if this is true or not. If Trump is now looking to save the Robert E. Lee statue, I have to shake my head and say are you Fing kidding me. The guy just doesn't know when to change the rhetoric and the course of things towards a solution or to take positive steps to diffuse a bad situation. Instead let's throw more wood on the fire and suggest a man that tried to take the country down and was a known brutal slave owner, that his likeness is somehow something we should look up to.

I just have to question is he even listening to the people around him? He is a gut jerk, reactionary, thin skinned fool.

"but I think the rhetoric he used all throughout the campaign and since validates and in some cases encourages these nuts to take action"

And the guy who shot up the softball game in DC, was inspired by Bernie Sanders. There are kooks out there. I never once heard anyone claim Sanders was responsible for that. Because he wasn't.

Now, Bernie Sanders doesn't have a history of saying stupid, irresponsible things like Trump does when he says he'll pay to defend anyone who gets arrested for punching a protestor in the face. But for anyone to take that idiotic statement, and make the leap to running someone down in their car, is an act of madness, and I don't think Trump is responsible for that.

Trump's past statements show that he is a jerk. I don't think they show that he sympathizes with white supremacists. What about all of his clear denunciations of David Duke, the Klan, and bigotry?

Trump should have been more thoughtful in his statement. But no matter what he said, 99% of the media was going to attack him for it. It just doesn't matter what he says or does.

This is all nonsense to me, the law protects Free Speech. If every time a group (any group) legally receives their permit to gather and protest, some other group shows up (without a permit) to shout over or start violence with the initial group, we are illegally preventing the initial groups free speech rights. I can't stand either group involved in this, but one attempted to protest the removal of the statue with a permit and the other one prevented them to lawfully protest. I would say the exact same thing if the situation was reversed. If it was Antifa and BLM with the permit to protest the statue and wanted it removed, and these Nazi groups showed up (without a permit) to shout them down then the law should protect the Antifa BLM people, just like in this case the police should have prevented the groups from interacting and prohibited the groups that were not holding permits from protesting.

The media spins it out of control about racist this and racist that. It's simply a law, want to hold a parade or protest for anything, legally get a permit, and then nobody should stop you from legally holding your event. if you don't support their cause, stay away and ignore them. DONT GIVE THEM MORE ATTENTION THAN THEY DESERVE. all this did was make more racists on both sides angrier and more resolved.

No One......really??? NO ONE????

its just the other side of the same coin.

Nope, no one. No one at MSNBC did anything to give Obama a fair shake. They all hated him. That's the way I remember it.,

Trump calls removal of Confederate monuments 'so foolish'

Trump: Removing statues rips apart US culture



I would like to see data on when theses Monuments were erected and what was said during the ceremony.. for example its not history if it was put in place in 1950 and the war ended in 1865..
if they were erected 30 years after the war then they historical ... not sure how that works?

Trump calls removal of Confederate monuments 'so foolish'

Trump: Removing statues rips apart US culture



I would like to see data on when theses Monuments were erected and what was said during the ceremony.. for example its not history if it was put in place in 1950 and the war ended in 1865..
if they were erected 30 years after the war then they historical ... not sure how that works?

Miriam Webster Definition of historical:
1
a: of, relating to, or having the character of history, historical data
b: based on history historical novels
c: used in the past and reproduced in historical presentations
2: famous in history

Good couple of posts and Boss as always, you are the voice of reason.

Thank you , I think :tooth:

I suspect the real nazis would be pretty depressed seeing their movement now represented by a bunch of toothless goobers playing dress up on occasion...

do we know who is in charge?

Yes. Their capabilities fortunately (hopefully) should stop long before Kristallnacht (so far)

This is all nonsense to me, the law protects Free Speech. If every time a group (any group) legally receives their permit to gather and protest, some other group shows up (without a permit) to shout over or start violence with the initial group, we are illegally preventing the initial groups free speech rights. I can't stand either group involved in this, but one attempted to protest the removal of the statue with a permit and the other one prevented them to lawfully protest. I would say the exact same thing if the situation was reversed. If it was Antifa and BLM with the permit to protest the statue and wanted it removed, and these Nazi groups showed up (without a permit) to shout them down then the law should protect the Antifa BLM people, just like in this case the police should have prevented the groups from interacting and prohibited the groups that were not holding permits from protesting.

^ This.

The media spins it out of control about racist this and racist that. It's simply a law, want to hold a parade or protest for anything, legally get a permit, and then nobody should stop you from legally holding your event. if you don't support their cause, stay away and ignore them. DONT GIVE THEM MORE ATTENTION THAN THEY DESERVE. all this did was make more racists on both sides angrier and more resolved.

When ratings meet commentary.

Oh, and is a Right, not a Law

Trump calls removal of Confederate monuments 'so foolish'

Trump: Removing statues rips apart US culture



I would like to see data on when theses Monuments were erected and what was said during the ceremony.. for example its not history if it was put in place in 1950 and the war ended in 1865..
if they were erected 30 years after the war then they historical ... not sure how that works?

Condaleeza Rice also says taking down those statues is foolish (she doesn't like whitewashing our history to make us feel better). I happen to disagree with her, I think they should come down. But that doesn't make her a racist, a white supremacist, or a Nazi, does it?

http://eheadlines.com/condi-rice-gives-the-confederate-monument-vandals-a-brutal-history-lesson-video/

Robert Byrd was in the Senate forever, Hilary said he was her mentor. And that's OK. But when Trump says "I disavow David Duke", and when he says "I condemn violence and bigotry", that's not OK. That just makes all kinds of sense.

Still awaiting the lefts outrage that Trump has not had a forceful condemnation for those responsible for Barcelona today ...... he better do it soon or it will be too late
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Condaleeza Rice also says taking down those statues is foolish (she doesn't like whitewashing our history to make us feel better). I happen to disagree with her, I think they should come down. But that doesn't make her a racist, a white supremacist, or a Nazi, does it?

http://eheadlines.com/condi-rice-gives-the-confederate-monument-vandals-a-brutal-history-lesson-video/

Robert Byrd was in the Senate forever, Hilary said he was her mentor. And that's OK. But when Trump says "I disavow David Duke", and when he says "I condemn violence and bigotry", that's not OK. That just makes all kinds of sense.

Lots of streets and buildings named after Byrd . See ya
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Oh, and is a Right, not a Law

I was in no way saying free speech wasnt a Right, but was referring to the city ordnance/law that allows for lawful demonstrations only when issued a permit by the city manager.

Sec. 28-29. - Street parades, processions, and other events.

No parade or procession of any kind shall be held or conducted in any city rights-of-way without first obtaining a permit from the city manager.

(Code 1976, § 25-25; 11-16-98(3); Ord. of 3-5-01(2))

Taken from Charlottesville city code. This city Law governs how the cities law enforcement should have protected the permitted parties Rights of free speech . If they would have enforced the law, and kept non permitted parties from the area, this would have blown over like a distant f-a-r-t in the wind. "On the news today, some crazy Nazzis waved flags and NOBODY cares".....

Ahhh - gotcha

Trump calls removal of Confederate monuments 'so foolish'

Trump: Removing statues rips apart US culture



I would like to see data on when theses Monuments were erected and what was said during the ceremony.. for example its not history if it was put in place in 1950 and the war ended in 1865..
if they were erected 30 years after the war then they historical ... not sure how that works?

In the case of the statue I saw blm protesting in SC a couple nights ago,it was erected before the civil war. It seems it was a tribute from the community which was paid for with privately raised money. It is Of a fellow named Calhoun who also has a park and a street named after him.
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Still awaiting the lefts outrage that Trump has not had a forceful condemnation for those responsible for Barcelona today ...... he better do it soon or it will be too late
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Trump pushes debunked 'pig's blood' myth, hours after Barcelona attack

Study what General Pershing of the United States did to terrorists when caught. There was no more Radical Islamic Terror for 35 years!

another fail

I was in no way saying free speech wasnt a Right, but was referring to the city ordnance/law that allows for lawful demonstrations only when issued a permit by the city manager.

Sec. 28-29. - Street parades, processions, and other events.

No parade or procession of any kind shall be held or conducted in any city rights-of-way without first obtaining a permit from the city manager.

(Code 1976, § 25-25; 11-16-98(3); Ord. of 3-5-01(2))

Taken from Charlottesville city code. This city Law governs how the cities law enforcement should have protected the permitted parties Rights of free speech . If they would have enforced the law, and kept non permitted parties from the area, this would have blown over like a distant f-a-r-t in the wind. "On the news today, some crazy Nazzis waved flags and NOBODY cares".....

if these things need to be approved....I'm assuming they can also be denied? I believe a community has the right to refuse to have something like this occur in their yard....you can cite a host of reasons in denying the permit ...let them take it to court or find another place to make fools of themselves, I doubt they'd have the stomach or wherewithal to fight it and if they take their complaints to the media dressed in whacko drag....won't be much sympathy there either.....

Removing some of these statues is not the answer. If you rewrite your history you are bound to repeat it.... Just look at Europe as an example. The last generation to survive a world war is passing on, and leaving us with no examples to show the way.
As for the statues; they are of the leaders of the South, who are widely known to have LOST. SURRENDERED. Their way of life was beaten down, and with it, slavery was abolished. Lee was the top graduate in his class from West Point and served in US Army for 32 years before following his state in the succession. He deeply hoped for the union to continue, and was offered a senior command in the Union army.... But he is universally acknowledged as the military leader of the side that LOST. That is what he symbolizes, as do the other statues of those Confederate South leaders. Next we will be burning all copies of Gone With The Wind.... The symbolism of this is off the mark IMO.

Trump is not the answer.
Extremists are not the answer, but will always make themselves known for the wrong reasons.
Anything Nazi or Supremist is unacceptable. I will choose to focus on those two labels, but it goes across the board as far as intolerance.

In the case of the statue I saw blm protesting in SC a couple nights ago,it was erected before the civil war. It seems it was a tribute from the community which was paid for with privately raised money. It is Of a fellow named Calhoun who also has a park and a street named after him.
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John Calhoun was one of the generators of the conditions that helped lead SC to secede first from the nation. He died well before the collapse that came from his policies. Interesting and controversial figure


Trump pushes debunked 'pig's blood' myth, hours after Barcelona attack

Study what General Pershing of the United States did to terrorists when caught. There was no more Radical Islamic Terror for 35 years!

another fail

Yep - absolutely stupid. This is why people should not believe memes on the Internet

if these things need to be approved....I'm assuming they can also be denied? I believe a community has the right to refuse to have something like this occur in their yard....you can cite a host of reasons in denying the permit ...let them take it to court or find another place to make fools of themselves, I doubt they'd have the stomach or wherewithal to fight it and if they take their complaints to the media dressed in whacko drag....won't be much sympathy there either.....


Dunno. I don't want to see Neonazis marching anywhere but is is worth denying a Constitutional right? Maybe relegate them to a swampy area of the park ; )

Removing some of these statues is not the answer. If you rewrite your history you are bound to repeat it.... Just look at Europe as an example. The last generation to survive a world war is passing on, and leaving us with no examples to show the way.
As for the statues; they are of the leaders of the South, who are widely known to have LOST. SURRENDERED. Their way of life was beaten down, and with it, slavery was abolished. Lee was the top graduate in his class from West Point and served in US Army for 32 years before following his state in the succession. He deeply hoped for the union to continue, and was offered a senior command in the Union army.... But he is universally acknowledged as the military leader of the side that LOST. That is what he symbolizes, as do the other statues of those Confederate South leaders. Next we will be burning all copies of Gone With The Wind.... The symbolism of this is off the mark IMO.

Trump is not the answer.
Extremists are not the answer, but will always make themselves known for the wrong reasons.
Anything Nazi or Supremist is unacceptable. I will choose to focus on those two labels, but it goes across the board as far as intolerance.

I don't know that removing statues is re-writing history.

If there is a monument that is there just as an historical marker, that's fine. If the statue is a tribute to the man, that's something else. I was in Nashville last year, and saw a state of Robert E Lee. If the plaque said "Robert E Lee fought a battle here", I would have no problem with that. The plaque was an honor to the man, and the last line was something about thanking him "for the noble cause he dedicated to". Now, I can see where that is DEEPLY offensive to a lot of people. The noble cause, was the right to commit treason, for the sake of enslaving his fellow man. You can argue the cause was state's rights I guess.

I see the left side on this one. But I also figure if Condaleeza Rice is fine with leaving them up, then why should I care if it doesn't bother her, she has a bigger dog in this hunt then me...

John Calhoun was one of the generators of the conditions that helped lead SC to secede first from the nation. He died well before the collapse that came from his policies. Interesting and controversial figure




Yep - absolutely stupid. This is why people should not believe memes on the Internet




Dunno. I don't want to see Neonazis marching anywhere but is is worth denying a Constitutional right? Maybe relegate them to a swampy area of the park ; )

"Yep - absolutely stupid. This is why people should not believe memes on the Internet"

That's a statement worth criticizing him for, one of many. As opposed to "I condemn violence and bigotry..."

"I don't want to see Neonazis marching anywhere but is is worth denying a Constitutional right?"

In my opinion, the answer is no. We can't be selective about who the Bill Of Rights protects, and who it does not, as long as they are law abiding. But this is exactly what the left is trying to do with conservative speakers on college campuses. And you will never, not in a million years, see the ACLU fight for the right of Ann Coulter or Ben Shapiro to speak in public space at a public university. Never, ever, ever.

I can see a distinction bt a statue to the conferderate soldiers and to someone like Lee. Also, from what I have seen there seems to be a correlation bt when the statues got put up and when significant gains where made by minorities.

And I don't believe for a moment this was solely about a protest to leave statues up. If so, why the vile chants, the use of the torches, etc.

I haven't read all the posts but who are the good people who marched w/the Neo Nazis?

Can someone explain what is meant by "good"?

I can see a distinction bt a statue to the conferderate soldiers and to someone like Lee. Also, from what I have seen there seems to be a correlation bt when the statues got put up and when significant gains where made by minorities.

And I don't believe for a moment this was solely about a protest to leave statues up. If so, why the vile chants, the use of the torches, etc.

I haven't read all the posts but who are the good people who marched w/the Neo Nazis?

Can someone explain what is meant by "good"?

"And I don't believe for a moment this was solely about a protest to leave statues up"

Agreed, for many of the Nazis, it was just an excuse to vent their garden-variety racist fantasies. I don't think there were too may noted historians in that crowd who were afraid of losing monuments to history.

"why the vile chants"

I can say the same exact thing about Black Lives Matter. Something about wanting dead cops. And they got it. There are jerks out there. That's why the vile chants.

"are the good people who marched w/the Neo Nazis"

I have absolutely no idea, I don't think that was a wise choice of words.

I don't know that removing statues is re-writing history.

In and of itself, it might not be. But it also could be a part of rewriting history. The intent of far left, Marxist, Communist, even Socialist ideology is to replace the evils of human nature with an inflexible, inviolable, benevolent and "correct" governmental authority. That is facilitated by eliminating or "rewriting" historical facts. Authoritarianism has a history of erasing the past it wishes to change. Statues, churches, monuments, works of art, books, ideas, etc., have intentionally been destroyed, burned, erased from reality in order to promote the version of history that authoritarians wish to impose.

If there is a monument that is there just as an historical marker, that's fine. If the statue is a tribute to the man, that's something else. I was in Nashville last year, and saw a state of Robert E Lee. If the plaque said "Robert E Lee fought a battle here", I would have no problem with that. The plaque was an honor to the man, and the last line was something about thanking him "for the noble cause he dedicated to". Now, I can see where that is DEEPLY offensive to a lot of people. The noble cause, was the right to commit treason, for the sake of enslaving his fellow man. You can argue the cause was state's rights I guess.

Someone obviously thought the cause was noble. One of the definitions of noble in Meriam Webster is:
"possessing, characterized by, or arising from superiority of mind or character or of ideals or morals." And the following example of usage is, for instance, "a noble cause."

Biographical and historical accounts of what Lee believed are in line with how he acted. He believed in what he thought were the higher ideals of his culture, even though he believed slavery was wrong. He believed that eventually slavery would disappear. He believed in the Union and preferred that it should be preserved, but he had a moral obligation to abide by the laws of his State of Virginia. He was conflicted, but "nobly" did his duty. He was, it can be argued, an example of a noble character in his time of transition. Some note could be added to the statue's plaque to place his "nobility" in light of current thought. But he was an important person in the evolving character of this nation. And if we are to recognize the characters who shaped this country, the truth of who they were and what they believed is an important part of the story. Or we could just obliterate the past that we don't like, and make shinier the past we think is appropriate. Then we could have a beautiful fiction--which would probably offend a lot of people.

I see the left side on this one. But I also figure if Condaleeza Rice is fine with leaving them up, then why should I care if it doesn't bother her, she has a bigger dog in this hunt then me...

On the other hand, we could obliterate all traces of "offensive" notions in history and create utopia. Not. Basically, much of what humans are or do, is offensive. Some believe humans are an offense to the planet.

On the other hand, we could obliterate all traces of "offensive" notions in history and create utopia. Not. Basically, much of what humans are or do, is offensive. Some believe humans are an offense to the planet.

There is a lot of fake outrage out there, I agree with you. Paying tribute to those who committed treason for the purposes of maintaining slavery...I think it's worth having a conversation about whether or not that is cruel. I don't care what Webster says, it wasn't a noble cause. It was closer to pure evil, than it was to noble, in my opinion. Just my opinion, reasonable people can disagree, including one of my favorite reasonable people, Dr Condaleeza Rice.
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Couple things, some of the lore and some of the statues are for the people that led those that defended their homes and some are considered memorials to those that were led and perished. Yes, some use them as symbols of hate.

Many of these statues and those they were modeled after, were part of the recovery from that war. No matter how poorly done.

When the Civil War was over, Lincoln had great hopes to pull people back together and mend our country. That may have happened much better had not some fool actor and his conspirators murdered Lincoln.

Reconstruction after the war was horrible and furthered our division.

Personally, I think it is up to the people that live in the districts to determine, by vote if necessary, on whether or not to remove them from public grounds. Not for those of us far and away to decide for them.

On private grounds, that is more up to the individual facilities.

As a northerner I have no great connection to those leaders but I can learn from them and respect some of their acts while still deploring others.

But we cannot and should not remove history. Thirty years ago I went to Dachacu and it leaves an impression on me to this day. What would some future generation know about the atrocities of WWII and the real Nazis if that is removed?

"Before landing the Charlottesville mayor job he previously worked closely with Podesta at the Center of American Progress and worked with him again on Barack Obama’s State Department Transition Team.George Soros, Obama, Podesta, Hillary Clinton and company, are pulling out all the stops to create division through chaos and destruction for one purpose – to destroy President Donald Trump.
Crowds of paid protesters and useful psychopaths are being sent into pitched battle against one another to sour the mood of the nation and further divide us all."

Michael Signer, the mayor of Charlottesville, ordered police to stand down during the most chaotic and destructive period of the protests – despite police protests against the orders.





http://truthuncensored.net/charlotte...ace-war-video/

difficult to believe this is true but if the cops follow orders like sheep, maybe it is true. they want to destroy the country from within. I'm sure this will be reported on MSNBC shortly

listen to the video if you can

That is a hard one to believe
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"Before landing the Charlottesville mayor job he previously worked closely with Podesta at the Center of American Progress and worked with him again on Barack Obama’s State Department Transition Team.George Soros, Obama, Podesta, Hillary Clinton and company, are pulling out all the stops to create division through chaos and destruction for one purpose – to destroy President Donald Trump.
Crowds of paid protesters and useful psychopaths are being sent into pitched battle against one another to sour the mood of the nation and further divide us all."

Michael Signer, the mayor of Charlottesville, ordered police to stand down during the most chaotic and destructive period of the protests – despite police protests against the orders.





http://truthuncensored.net/charlotte...ace-war-video/

difficult to believe this is true but if the cops follow orders like sheep, maybe it is true. they want to destroy the country from within. I'm sure this will be reported on MSNBC shortly

listen to the video if you can

The truth shall set you free.


http://www.snopes.com/were-police-told-stand-down-charlottesville/
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The truth shall set you free.


http://www.snopes.com/were-police-told-stand-down-charlottesville/
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Well, then there might be something to all that Faux media paranoia out there, because I had read that on a couple of other news websites.

Irresponsible journalism???
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Well, then there might be something to all that Faux media paranoia out there, because I had read that on a couple of other news websites.

Irresponsible journalism???
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Honestly, I'd say yes. The media has orgasms over stuff like this. Race tensions boost ratings and forget about click bait bs "news" sites that get shared all over Facebook.

All I know for sure is that someone wants the people of this country divided and bickering so we can not unite and see that there are some serious crooks fleecing this country at high levels of government... corrupt politicians, government contractors and business owners who are making bank off the back of the 99% of this country.

But those Mexicans!!!! They are the real problem. Bad hombres!!! ;)
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rally in Boston

tomorrow...http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/08/18/boston-free-speech-rally-security-preparations/

I read this article..the headline is BRILLIANT.....lots of consternation, posturing, warning and generally troubling concerns over the crisis of free speech...

it only mentions the organizers one time = "Boston Free Speech Coalition" ????....who????...sounds menacing

never heard of them...what ...like.....5 members registered online or something????

enough to close down the city of Boston for the day apparently?...a hateful word or phrase has yet to be muttered...


Southern Poverty Law Center(as offering advice to Mayor Knucklehead) is mentioned, and whom I've heard of and am very aware of their dubious dealings

what the hell is going on????

these fruitcake politicians and media milk this crap for all it's worth...if it's such a problem don't approve the freaking permit based on all of your moaning and kvetching ....

warning...warning...danger Will Robinson

Honestly, I'd say yes. The media has orgasms over stuff like this. Race tensions boost ratings and forget about click bait bs "news" sites that get shared all over Facebook.

All I know for sure is that SOMEONE wants the people of this country divided and bickering so we can not unite and see that there are some serious crooks fleecing this country at high levels of government... corrupt politicians, government contractors and business owners who are making bank off the back of the 99% of this country.

But those Mexicans!!!! They are the real problem. Bad hombres!!! ;)
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And you KNOW who that someone is don't you? That's right, George Soros

maybe it is fake, maybe not
All I know is that as time passes, more conspiracy theories have turned out to be reality not theories.


Hopefully the rally in Boston doesn't end up violent of a piss bottle fight. I would not be within 20 miles of that place.

I think Soros is a tool and generates a lot of crap but I don't think he is behind every conspiracy, no more than Eben's Koch brothers....

I think Soros is a tool and generates a lot of crap but I don't think he is behind every conspiracy, no more than Eben's Koch brothers....

If you don't think the koch brothers have dirty hands in things, your head is in the sand.
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If you don't think the koch brothers have dirty hands in things, your head is in the sand.
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I would love to hear how they are any different from, say, labor unions...they have huge money, and spend some to advocate for that which they think is right. And they give a ton to charity, but that can't matter.

Harry Reid has called them by name, on the floor of the US Senate, as being dangerous. He is supposed to serve them for Christs sake! Imagine never being even accused of a crime, but having a US Senator declare you to be the enemy...

If you don't think the koch brothers have dirty hands in things, your head is in the sand.
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Fake news... don't believe everything you say... Hard one to believe... Truth will set you free....

Koch Brothers have Dirty Hands!@!!!

:wave: :humpty: :huh:

The truth shall set you free.


http://www.snopes.com/were-police-told-stand-down-charlottesville/
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Just like stand down order in benghazi

I would love to hear how they are any different from, say, labor unions...they have huge money, and spend some to advocate for that which they think is right. And they give a ton to charity, but that can't matter.

Harry Reid has called them by name, on the floor of the US Senate, as being dangerous. He is supposed to serve them for Christs sake! Imagine never being even accused of a crime, but having a US Senator declare you to be the enemy...


Labor unions work for their members (the little guy) the Koch brothers work for their own self interest..compare them to Soros if you like but your anti labor connections are way off base

wrong place

Labor unions work for their members (the little guy) the Koch brothers work for their own self interest..compare them to Soros if you like but your anti labor connections are way off base

Labor unions ARE the members. Saying that the unions work for their members is saying that the members are working for themselves, for, as you say, their own self interest.

Koch Brothers have created wealth out of the work for their own self interest, much of which is distributed (paid) to various unions and "little guys." They have also funded millions to charities as well as supporting cultural entities such as the arts. That is, "little guys" have benefitted from the self interest of the Koch's in many ways. The Koch's have fiscally and culturally profited society through the profits they generated in their self interest.

The "little guys" provided the labor to help the Koch's do their work.

I like what Mitt Romney said whether he's intended to or not what he communicated caused racist to Rejoice, minorities to weep, and the vast Heart of America to mourn. His apologists train to explain that it didn't mean what we heard but what we heard is now the reality, and unless it is addressed by the president as such with unprecedented kander and strength through May commence and unraveling of our national fabric
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Labor unions ARE the members. Saying that the unions work for their members is saying that the members are working for themselves, for, as you say, their own self interest.

Koch Brothers have created wealth out of the work for their own self interest, much of which is distributed (paid) to various unions and "little guys." They have also funded millions to charities as well as supporting cultural entities such as the arts. That is, "little guys" have benefitted from the self interest of the Koch's in many ways. The Koch's have fiscally and culturally profited society through the profits they generated in their self interest.

The "little guys" provided the labor to help the Koch's do their work.

Do you have the same opinion about Soros ??

Labor unions work for their members (the little guy) the Koch brothers work for their own self interest..compare them to Soros if you like but your anti labor connections are way off base

"Koch brothers work for their own self interest"

They have over 100,000 employees. Seems to me, that what's good for the company, is good for plenty of little guys.

Here in CT, we have unionized UCONN professors with pensions above $300k year, and the state just stopped funding military honors at funerals for deceased vets.

Those awesome unions, just looking out for the little guy. They did wonders for the little guys in Detroit.

The Koch brothers aren't bankrupting any states. But labor unions sure as hell are.

Couldn't help but notice ,in Boston , those attacking people carrying the Israeli flag were the same ones opposing Nazis . Ironic
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Couldn't help but notice ,in Boston , those attacking people carrying the Israeli flag were the same ones opposing Nazis . Ironic
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What Nazis?
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What Nazis?
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The country is swarming with them… Pay attention man
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Just saw a guy on FB post a photo of his new IWB holster so he can kill Nazis. Full blown Antifa / Bernie supporter.

Just saw a guy on FB post a photo of his new IWB holster so he can kill Nazis. Full blown Antifa / Bernie supporter.

Don't get near that guy and be mistaken for a Nazi :eek:
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Don't get near that guy and be mistaken for a Nazi :eek:
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He's white and he grew up in Germany......that's good enough for them. :hee:
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Nazi/Neo Nazi?

Is that what we should be focusing on here.

Nazi/Neo Nazi?

Is that what we should be focusing on here.

How about Nazis/Not Nazis

I think I'm going to invent a new word:

Notzis - Its what you call a bunch of white people, gathered in a public place, that you go to protest for being Nazis....but then find out......they're Not

Sorry, not following. So the neo nazis where not nazis so all is good w/our President's comments?

Sorry, not following. So the neo nazis where not nazis so all is good w/our President's comments?

Obviously you're not following, you're still on last weeks conversation. :hee: we started talking about the Boston events. Probably should be a separate thread, but you know how things roll here.

I usually don't look on nights or weekends so I fall behind.

Do you have the same opinion about Soros ??

Why should I have an opinion on Soros? I don't recall if I have said much, if anything about him. I was trying to make a rational response to your idiotic characterizations of the Koch's and unions.

Obviously Trump was wrong. It's not about many sides or all sides. It's only about white supremacists:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/masked-anarchists-violently-rout-right-wing-demonstrators-in-berkeley/ar-AAqOvxH?OCID=ansmsnnews11

Obviously Trump was wrong. It's not about many sides or all sides. It's only about white supremacists:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/masked-anarchists-violently-rout-right-wing-demonstrators-in-berkeley/ar-AAqOvxH?OCID=ansmsnnews11

Since 911 number of people killed by 28 people were killed as a result of white supremacist by A Ntifa ZERO


Another False equivalence

Since 911 number of people killed by 28 people were killed as a result of white supremacist by A Ntifa ZERO


Another False equivalence

Oh, so if you go by absolute numbers, can we presume you have told Black Lives Matter to stop worrying about white cops, and concentrate on black-on-black violence? After all, which causes more deaths?

Obviously, we need to prioritize our efforts. That doesn't mean that we can't condemn violence by white supremacists, as well as violence by lefty anarchists. In fact, that's exactly what our President did, if memory serves.

You walked right into that one...

Since 911 number of people killed by 28 people were killed as a result of white supremacist by A Ntifa ZERO


Another False equivalence

Your "False equivalence" accusation is false equivalence. I did not propose an equivalence.

I don't know which violent groups are more equal than the others. Certainly, comparing the number of people killed "as a result of white supremacist[s]" (all such groups?, and what does as a result of mean?) in the last 16 years to a fairly new violence perpetrated by one group (in the past year or two?) is questionable, if not downright misleading.

And it doesn't have anything to do with my post.

I was just pointing out how wrong Trump was when he called out all sides for violence. Obviously, only white supremacists have been violent.

Your "False equivalence" accusation is false equivalence. I did not propose an equivalence.

I don't know which violent groups are more equal than the others. Certainly, comparing the number of people killed "as a result of white supremacist[s]" (all such groups?, and what does as a result of mean?) in the last 16 years to a fairly new violence perpetrated by one group (in the past year or two?) is questionable, if not downright misleading.

And it doesn't have anything to do with my post.

I was just pointing out how wrong Trump was when he called out all sides for violence. Obviously, only white supremacists have been violent.

Yes, all the white supremacists who rioted in Ferguson.

Very, very interesting--Former "antifa style" radical speaks out. WDMSO--watch the whole damn thing . . . then damn it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN2ZTpqr8sQ

So for the 3rd time - how are the Nazi's and KKK "fine" people in VA.

I know President Trump has reposted things from Neo Nazi sites in the past but can someone pls. explain how they are fine people and how did he know that?

So for the 3rd time - how are the Nazi's and KKK "fine" people in VA.

I know President Trump has reposted things from Neo Nazi sites in the past but can someone pls. explain how they are fine people and how did he know that?
He says that they are fine because he was told that doing so is a perfect political tactic to further divide the people of this country and rally his base of white conservative voters who are threatened and scared of people of color and people who are not like them coming in and taking over.

He gets to rally his base and distract everyone from the real problems that are going on....

Sad.
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So for the 3rd time - how are the Nazi's and KKK "fine" people in VA.

I know President Trump has reposted things from Neo Nazi sites in the past but can someone pls. explain how they are fine people and how did he know that?

Paul,
From what I understood and the way I interpreted his statement was that there were residents at the protest who were not white supremacists or KKK members and who legitimately did not want the statues removed. There were no doubt others at the protest who wanted the statues removed but were not necessarily members of Antifa (like the young women who was killed). These people/groups could be what Trump considered "fine" people. Just ordinary Americans who picked a side and did not resort to violence.

Paul,
From what I understood and the way I interpreted his statement was that there were residents at the protest who were not white supremacists or KKK members and who legitimately did not want the statues removed. There were no doubt others at the protest who wanted the statues removed but were not necessarily members of Antifa (like the young women who was killed). These people/groups could be what Trump considered "fine" people. Just ordinary Americans who picked a side and did not resort to violence.

That's what most people, without a bitter hatred for Trump, took it to mean as well.

That's what most people, without a bitter hatred for Trump, took it to mean as well.

I think that is too nuanced for Pres. Trump.

Does that mean I have a bitter hatred for him?

So for the 3rd time - how are the Nazi's and KKK "fine" people in VA.

I know President Trump has reposted things from Neo Nazi sites in the past but can someone pls. explain how they are fine people and how did he know that?

"So for the 3rd time - how are the Nazi's and KKK "fine" people in VA"

They aren't. The ones who truly are Nazis and KKK, are bad people. Fair enough?

Was every single person protesting the removal of the statues, a Nazi or a Klansmen? I don't know. Condaleeza Rice is adamantly opposed to removing the statues, but didn't march for it. Does that make her a Nazi or a Klansman?

I don't know that anyone is saying that white supremacists are morally superior to the ANTIFA anarchists. Can't we say they are both bad? Maybe not equally bad, but both bad nonetheless?

Paul,
From what I understood and the way I interpreted his statement was that there were residents at the protest who were not white supremacists or KKK members and who legitimately did not want the statues removed. There were no doubt others at the protest who wanted the statues removed but were not necessarily members of Antifa (like the young women who was killed). These people/groups could be what Trump considered "fine" people. Just ordinary Americans who picked a side and did not resort to violence.

BINGO.

So for the 3rd time - how are the Nazi's and KKK "fine" people in VA.

I know President Trump has reposted things from Neo Nazi sites in the past but can someone pls. explain how they are fine people and how did he know that?

There are more than 15 historical videos of Trump explicitly condemning David Duke, the Klan, white supremacists, and Nazis, etc...

Given that, is it really beyond your reach, to fathom that Trump was referring to people who don't want the statues removed, but who aren't Nazis or in the Klan?

Does that mean I have a bitter hatred for him?

Are you saying you don't?

That's what most people, without a bitter hatred for Trump, took it to mean as well.


^^^^

The people that deplore the violent right + Nazis + KKK and deplore the violent left + commies + anarchists. Those people that are in the middle and some will promote keeping of historical monuments and some will promote removal of said historical monuments.

Yes - most of us knew what it meant. Some, I'll bet, clearly knew what it meant but thrashed anyway

Are you saying you don't?

Not even close. I haven't called him a POS, posted unflattering pictures or mocked him, called him out for petty things (well occasionally), etc. (of which we had 8 years here of that w/Obama) with little if any push back or criticism except from a few of us. I do think he is not very smart, has no strategy, the WH is in a constant state of turmoil, and he appeals to racists (I'm sure we'll hear about that here).

I call out his constant lying and many times point out people's double standards.

Many members of his own party (and cabinet) have called him out for his statements and the seemingly moral equivalency he tried to make.

"So for the 3rd time - how are the Nazi's and KKK "fine" people in VA"

They aren't. The ones who truly are Nazis and KKK, are bad people. Fair enough?

Was every single person protesting the removal of the statues, a Nazi or a Klansmen? I don't know. Condaleeza Rice is adamantly opposed to removing the statues, but didn't march for it. Does that make her a Nazi or a Klansman?It doesn't make her a nazi and no one called her that. But if she was there to protest the removal and heard the vile chants about Jews and kept marching and didn't leave that would make her complicit.

I don't know that anyone is saying that white supremacists are morally superior to the ANTIFA anarchists. I think a fair interpretation of what Pres. Trump said was that they were equal in some way. Can't we say they are both bad? Maybe not equally bad, but both bad nonetheless?

Yes, antifa/anarchists are bad when they resort to violence but they don't have a history of killings like the KKK or Nazis so I wouldn't put them in the same sentence as Nazis. And I'm not here to defend them in any way - just comment on what our Pres. said.

Not even close. I haven't called him a POS, posted unflattering pictures or mocked him, called him out for petty things, etc. (of which we had 8 years here of that w/Obama) with little if any push back or criticism except from a few of us. I do think he is not very smart, has no strategy, the WH is in a constant state of turmoil, and appeals to racists (I'm sure we'll hear about that here).

I call out his constant lying and many times point out people's double standards.

Many members of his own party (and cabinet) have called him out for his statements and the seemingly moral equivalency he tried to make.

"I do think he is not very smart" Agreed.

"has no strategy" Disagree. But he's figuring out that unlike in the business world, he can't wave his hand and make everything happen that he wants to happen.

"the WH is in a constant state of turmoil" Absolutely agree.

"appeals to racists " It appeals to some kooks. If we hold presidents accountable for the actions of those they appeal to, you must have some harsh words for Obama about the cop assassinations that spiked at the end of his second term?

Yes, antifa/anarchists are bad when they resort to violence but they don't have a history of killings like the KKK or Nazis so I wouldn't put them in the same sentence as Nazis. And I'm not here to defend them in any way - just comment on what our Pres. said.

"It doesn't make her a nazi and no one called her that. But if she was there to protest the removal and heard the vile chants about Jews and kept marching and didn't leave that would make her complicit"

Agreed. Well said.

"I think a fair interpretation of what Pres. Trump said was that they were equal in some way"

Most of the criticism I saw, was that he sympathized with the Nazis, and I think that was a looney tunes interpretation of what he said. He condemned violence and bigotry on all sides. Paul, if you look at what he has historically said on video, he condemns white supremacists again and again and again. Sure, he could have used better language to single out the Nazis. But it's quite a leap from that, to saying he sympathizes with them.

As usual, his language choice could have been better. That will be a very consistent criticism of the man.

Yes, antifa/anarchists are bad when they resort to violence but they don't have a history of killings like the KKK or Nazis so I wouldn't put them in the same sentence as Nazis. And I'm not here to defend them in any way - just comment on what our Pres. said.

Nazis don't have the same history of killing people as Commies?

Or Make Believe Nazis (the kind we really have) don't have much a history of killing, no more than the Make Believe Commies.

I do think there is enough chance for real violence on the hard right Nazi/Klan types, just as there is from the Commie/Marxist/Anarchist bend.

Should take a close look at the Socialist Rifle Association, Redneck Revolt, and John Brown Gun Club. No better, or IMO, different, than militarized NeoNazis.

Nazis don't have the same history of killing people as Commies?What does Commies have to do with? Are you saying Antifa are commies?

Or Make Believe Nazis (the kind we really have) don't have much a history of killing, no more than the Make Believe Commies.Is the Joe McCarthy type of make believe Commies? The KKK killed enough here - didn't they?

I do think there is enough chance for real violence on the hard right Nazi/Klan types, just as there is from the Commie/Marxist/Anarchist bend.

Should take a close look at the Socialist Rifle Association, Redneck Revolt, and John Brown Gun Club. No better, or IMO, different, than militarized NeoNazis.

Take a look at anyone you want. Anyone who commits violence is the same. But in our country the far right has committed more violence than the far left.

I'm more concerned about our President's reaction to Charlottesville.

Take a look at anyone you want. Anyone who commits violence is the same. But in our country the far right has committed more violence than the far left.

I'm more concerned about our President's reaction to Charlottesville.

Errr, I don't know if the far right has committed more than the far left. Send them both to the klink - IF and WHEN - they have committed violence, and after proper justice.

I am more concerned about a bunch of anarchists and young Marxists running around as an army wanting revolution.

I don't think we will ever know what percentage of the protesters were average Joe's and Janes with old southern roots, that didn't want to see part of their history torn down.

I just think Trump's mouth is so far ahead of common sense that he can't help setting himself up for constant criticism from the press. It was a very bad time to make that statement, that point might have been made separately at a later debate, one tied strictly to the reasoning for removing these historical statues.

But in our country the far right has committed more violence than the far left.

I'm more concerned about our President's reaction to Charlottesville.

"But in our country the far right has committed more violence than the far left. "

That is very, very debatable. Depends on whether you are talking about frequency, severity, deaths, etc. Today, where is widespread violence committed by the right, other than one incident (and one is too many) in Charlotesville?

Occupy Wall Street, Black Lives Matter, cop assassinations, riots every time a white cop kills someone of color...of course there are radical righties who commit suicide, but there aren't large groups, large organizations of conservatives dedicated to anarchy.

"I'm more concerned about our President's reaction to Charlottesville"

He condemns all violence and bigotry. What an atrocious position to take.

Errr, I don't know if the far right has committed more than the far left. Send them both to the klink - IF and WHEN - they have committed violence, and after proper justice.Just as I've said a few times

I am more concerned about a bunch of anarchists and young Marxists running around as an army wanting revolution.

We can disagree bc at this point I 'm more concerned w/a bunch of Neo Nazis and KKK.

We can disagree bc at this point I 'm more concerned w/a bunch of Neo Nazis and KKK.

The Nazis and KKK have almost no voice, almost no platform. Granted, even one of them is too many, but how much do we feel their presence, really, in terms of violence they carry out? No one gives them a microphone, no one takes them seriously, they are condemned everywhere, even by the president.

It's not a rising movement that has any momentum whatsoever. Compare that to BLM, ANTIFA, the maniacs who riot every time a conservative has the audacity to open his mouth on a college campus.

Ben Shapiro is a conservative speaker, he's not overly insulting, he's not remotely like Ann Coulter or that Milo guy, not nearly that inflammatory, he graduated from Harvard, which liberals usually associate with people who are very smart. He's going to be at Berkley in September, giving a talk about conservative principles. Watch what happens.

Joe McCarthy did not make up commies. He was way, way more right about the commies than wrong. The commie infiltration had even been worse than he imagined. He was smeared by made up lies. This has been documented.

And when the KKK killed most of the people that they did, they were solidly Democrat. And, no, the Dems and Repubs did not "switch." The Dems did not suddenly become Republican, nor did the Repubs suddenly become Democrat. If we want to talk about making something up, the "switch" is a made up story. If anything, when VOTERS, especially younger ones, in the South saw the Progressive mentality of the Dems, they started to vote more for the party that represented conservative American values. The Republican Party did not switch. It did not suddenly become Progressive. And, what is not mentioned by the "switch" believers, the South became less racist after it became Republican.

Both parties were evolving and changing. Both started moving to the left. That move has been almost constant in the last couple of decades. The Dems are pretty far left now, the Repubs are moderately so.

I don't think we will ever know what percentage of the protesters were average Joe's and Janes with old southern roots, that didn't want to see part of their history torn down.

I just think Trump's mouth is so far ahead of common sense that he can't help setting himself up for constant criticism from the press. It was a very bad time to make that statement, that point might have been made separately at a later debate, one tied strictly to the reasoning for removing these historical statues.

It is difficult for Trump to react well when the media is all over him both justly and unjustly. He never got a fair chance though I still think he would have screwed it up.

We can disagree bc at this point I 'm more concerned w/a bunch of Neo Nazis and KKK.

You're more OK with a violent left revolution?


Neither side is to be given shelter to their ideas.

You're more OK with a violent left revolution?


Neither side is to be given shelter to their ideas.

I never said that so in what post did you think I said it?

I clearly stated any violence is not good but I was more concerned w/the Nazis, KKK than with Antifa (which I view as a group formed against the growing presence of right wing hate groups).

I clearly stated any violence is not good but I was more concerned w/the Nazis, KKK than with Antifa (which I view as a group formed against the growing presence of right wing hate groups).

The problem lies in what your definition of "Right Wing Hate Groups" are versus what their definition of "Right Wing Hate Groups" are.

Your "False equivalence" accusation is false equivalence. I did not propose an equivalence.




I was just pointing out how wrong Trump was when he called out all sides for violence. Obviously, only white supremacists have been violent.

Sure you did... and so did he .... but thats not the real issue now is it... It amazing to see all the push back against Trump and his Comment "Trump when he called out all sides for violence. " From all sides R and D and from leaders around the world on his statement
or was that Fake news?

Its like climate change Conservatives love to find one needle in a Hay stack staying its not happening due to human activity and push that narrative over and over and now you see the same again parsing words to tell us what Trump he ment to say and how everyone doesn't give a chance ..

it get old just like when a friend brings their kid over. who's a Spoiled Brat screaming and crying and the Parents just Say Jonny is just tired .. Some here need to stop being Trumps parents He's not tired

I never said that so in what post did you think I said it?

I clearly stated any violence is not good but I was more concerned w/the Nazis, KKK than with Antifa (which I view as a group formed against the growing presence of right wing hate groups).

You are more concerned with NeoNazis then a leftist revolution. I see both as abhorrent and incompatible with common decency. When they get violent, people die and neither one of those true believers really care.

Antifa has historical roots in communism / marxism "uniting" against fascism and appeals to commies and anarchists (that love to rally against anything). Professional Ideological schitt stirrers.

Sure you did... and so did he .... but thats not the real issue now is it...

You're right. The issue is the attempt to create an issue when there is none.

It amazing to see all the push back against Trump and his Comment "Trump when he called out all sides for violence. " From all sides R and D and from leaders around the world on his statement
or was that Fake news?

The push back is the attempt to create an issue. The Fake news is the omission or minimalization of those who did not have an issue with what Trump said.

Its like climate change Conservatives love to find one needle in a Hay stack staying its not happening due to human activity and push that narrative over and over and now you see the same again parsing words to tell us what Trump he ment to say and how everyone doesn't give a chance ..

There is no connection to climate change--many of those who found what Trump said to be reasonable may well have differing views on climate change.

There is no parsing of words by Trump's defenders. The exact words are defended. The parsing, if there is any, is done by the fakers who want to change Trump's words into a message of approval for white supremacy.

it get old just like when a friend brings their kid over. who's a Spoiled Brat screaming and crying and the Parents just Say Jonny is just tired .. Some here need to stop being Trumps parents He's not tired

Trump gets criticism by those "some here" when he deserves it. On the other hand, there are "some here" who see everything he says and does as being wrong, racist, homophobic, sexist, yada, yada, yada--that is the fake news.

The liberal doomsayers who would have us believe that there is a racial divide in this country, or a gender divide, or any other kind of divide, are deliberately sowing the seeds of division for their own nefarious purpose. The next time anyone tries to sell you that particular bill of goods, ask that person to explain this photograph from the wake of Hurricane Harvey. It screams of love, duty, and quiet heroism. And it spits a huge loogey right in the face of much that is at the core of liberalism. When your ideology is annihilated by something so fundamentally human (a baby sleeping through a crisis, a loving mom holding the baby to her heart, and a strong man carrying them to safety), it's time to find a new ideology.

funny.

..

..

It is LONG past time to tell the people who make a living by fanning the flames of racial tension, to go jump in a lake.

I am starting to remember, deep in my core, what unites us as Americans.

Your photo is better than mine. Thanks for sharing.

..

when race hustlers seek to promote division because it is politically expedient, it is everyone's duty to stop listening.

I always thought you should judge a man by the quality of his character and not the color of his skin. That used to be the right thing to do.

All of a sudden it wasn't anymore....don't know when that happened, but we need to go back to that.

I always thought you should judge a man by the quality of his character and not the color of his skin. That used to be the right thing to do.

All of a sudden it wasn't anymore....don't know when that happened, but we need to go back to that.

It happened at the end of Bush 43's first term. Those that run the Democratic Party, with their pals in the media and academia, figured that if they splintered off enough "victim" groups to account for 51% of the voters, and pit them against everyone else, that would help them win. Especially in the wake of the Gulf War becoming unpopular.

It worked for awhile at the national level, not sure it ever worked at the state level. At this point, it's all they have, so they just scream "hate crime!" louder and louder, every time they don't get their way.
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Couple quick thoughts. Thanks John for your definition if there is a lefty Revolution I would be just as concerned as I am about white supremacist neo-nazis and the KKK. The other post made me laugh yep all the Democrats all their fault. Had nothing to do with white push back to Obama. Donald Trump and is birther / / Muslim has not had nothing to do with it. Just because there's a white guy helping some black guys and a black guy helping some white guys all is all is copacetic. We still have a president who tried explaining away neo-nazis by every time he criticized them added something about the left. Look at how much hate crimes have been committed by the left and the right and tell me it's the left's fault.
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Talking into the phone so forgive some of the typos. It's hilarious when I read people saying there's no division yet those are the same people who post more than anyone else. Got a cousin on Facebook who share's Fox News 5 times a day then he'll post a picture similar to the picture Jim did and say why is there so much division in this country. See we all get along .

We're redoing the bathroom so my wife has three mirrors I'm going to give him one because evidently he does not have a mirrore in his house
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Couple quick thoughts. Thanks John for your definition if there is a lefty Revolution I would be just as concerned as I am about white supremacist neo-nazis and the KKK. The other post made me laugh yep all the Democrats all their fault. Had nothing to do with white push back to Obama. Donald Trump and is birther / / Muslim has not had nothing to do with it. Just because there's a white guy helping some black guys and a black guy helping some white guys all is all is copacetic. We still have a president who tried explaining away neo-nazis by every time he criticized them added something about the left. Look at how much hate crimes have been committed by the left and the right and tell me it's the left's fault.
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"Had nothing to do with white push back to Obama"

The notion that there was widespread white pushback to Obama, is bullsh*t. Yes, of course in a nation of 300 million people who are free to act they way they want, there are some vile people out there. But among political pundits, the leaders of the party, resistance to Obama was ideological, not racist. Your post here, just proved my point. Your side is hell-bent on convincing themselves, that everyone who disagrees with you, has some kind of character flaw, based on hatred.

95% of blacks voted for Obama. I can make a MUCH stronger case that there was black pushback to McCain and Romney, than anyone can make that there was widespread "white" pushback to Obama.

"Donald Trump and is birther / / Muslim has not had nothing to do with it"

Of course that has something to do with it. It's totally legit to call Trump a birther and a jerk. Your side takes it further, and says that everyone who votes for Trump, necessarily agrees with everything he says and does. Again, anything to help bolster the case that there really is a divide.

"We still have a president who tried explaining away neo-nazis by every time he criticized them added something about the left"

Demonstrably false. There are many instances of Trump denouncing racists, where he said nothing about the left. They just don't talk about that, where you get your news. Google all the times Trump has denounced David Duke, Nazis, and the Klan.

Trump is ONE MAN. Not everyone who voted for him, is responsible for everything he says and does. Did the media say that everyone who voted for Hilary, has no sympathy for the victims of sexual assault? Hilary went on national TV and slut-shamed her husband's victims, and not once did I hear anyone in the mainstream media claim that everyone who voted for her, is heartless towards victims of sexual assault. Why is that? Can you explain? Hilary is married to a predator, she lied to defend him, and she attacked his victims. Yet no one claims that everyone who voted for her, is callous to assault victims. How come? But every time Donald Trump says something asinine, somehow that says something about everyone who voted for him.

"Look at how much hate crimes have been committed by the left and the right and tell me it's the left's fault.
"

Hate crimes committed by Nazis, are condemned by conservatives, almost universally. How many powerful liberals don't say anything about ANTIFA? How come liberals don't speak out against those who riot on college campuses when conservatives dare to speak their mind?

You cannot win this one, I'm holding all the cards.

Paul, you cannot begin to make any kind of credible argument, that the tens of millions of people who voted for Trump, are any more sexist or racist than the people who voted for Hilary.

For your side to claim that there is widespread hatred of people of color or women, among those who voted for Trump...is just as crazy and offensive, as Trump claiming that Obama is a Muslim or wasn't born here.

The first thing I learned from election night 2016, is that middle America has limits for the amount of insults they are willing to endure. Your side hasn't begun to learn that lesson. Which explains what has happened in the special elections this year, every one of which was portrayed by the media, as a referendum on Trump...that is, until the democrat got his hat handed to him.

The GOP has the Oval Office, both houses of Congress, and an insane majority of state governorships and state legislatures. The only excuse Democrats are able to comprehend for that result, is that my side is racist. Because losing is acceptable, even noble, when one loses to evil. Convincing yourself of that, is much easier, than admitting that not many people are buying what your side is selling.

Paul, you cannot begin to make any kind of credible argument, that the tens of millions of people who voted for Trump, are any more sexist or racist than the people who voted for Hilary.

For your side to claim that there is widespread hatred of people of color or women, among those who voted for Trump...is just as crazy and offensive, as Trump claiming that Obama is a Muslim or wasn't born here.

The first thing I learned from election night 2016, is that middle America has limits for the amount of insults they are willing to endure. Your side hasn't begun to learn that lesson. Which explains what has happened in the special elections this year, every one of which was portrayed by the media, as a referendum on Trump...that is, until the democrat got his hat handed to him.

The GOP has the Oval Office, both houses of Congress, and an insane majority of state governorships and state legislatures. The only excuse Democrats are able to comprehend for that result, is that my side is racist. Because losing is acceptable, even noble, when one loses to evil. Convincing yourself of that, is much easier, than admitting that not many people are buying what your side is selling.

You forgot the part about gerrymandering. ;)
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You forgot the part about gerrymandering. ;)
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That's true, parties in charge always do that. That doesn't explain governorships or the us senate, which are statewide races.
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That's true, parties in charge always do that. That doesn't explain governorships or the us senate, which are statewide races.
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You forgot about voter suppression
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You forgot about voter suppression
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And Michigan!!

The liberal doomsayers who would have us believe that there is a racial divide in this country, or a gender divide, or any other kind of divide, are deliberately sowing the seeds of division for their own nefarious purpose. y.

Was this sarcasm?

So I guess I never heard oboma called the divider in chief from consertive doomsayers right leaning amnesia of facts

You forgot about voter suppression
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Mmm-hmmm. Because it's a different (harder) process for blacks to get voter ids, than it is for whites.

You forgot CNN giving Hilary debate questions ahead of time, and 95% of the media being in the bag for the democrats.
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Was this sarcasm?

So I guess I never heard oboma called the divider in chief from consertive doomsayers right leaning amnesia of facts

Not remotely sarcastic. You don't think liberals make a habit out of emphasizing racial divides and gender divide?

You missed my point entirely. Yes we called Obama a divider. Because he was. The Cambridge police acted stupidly, republicans have to sit in the back of the bus, my son would look like Michael brown, republicans gotta stop just hating all the time.

What he meant by that last one, is that we have to stop winning all the time.
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Mmm-hmmm. Because it's a different (harder) process for blacks to get voter ids, than it is for whites.


Several red state supreme courts would disagree with you.
It is about more than ID. I have zero issue with the ID portion, but they have found in NC, TX and maybe others that the targeted changes to early voting and other items were racially and or politically motivated.

http://humanevents.com/2017/08/31/why-the-media-are-in-a-never-ending-hunt-for-right-wing-violence/?utm_source=coulterdaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl

Several red state supreme courts would disagree with you.
It is about more than ID. I have zero issue with the ID portion, but they have found in NC, TX and maybe others that the targeted changes to early voting and other items were racially and or politically motivated.

I have zero doubt that some
Policies are rooted
In voter suppression, and we need to root out anyone who would support that.
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Not remotely sarcastic. You don't think liberals make a habit out of emphasizing racial divides and gender divide?

You missed my point entirely. Yes we called Obama a divider. Because he was. The Cambridge police acted stupidly, republicans have to sit in the back of the bus, my son would look like Michael brown, republicans gotta stop just hating all the time.

What he meant by that last one, is that we have to stop winning all the time.
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I get it .. Trump is the great unifier... Ok if you say so :laugha:

I get it .. Trump is the great unifier... Ok if you say so :laugha:

Thing is, I didn't say so. Never said anything like it. I am an ardent critic of Trump.

It's funny, I debate this stuff in a few different places, and it seems like you can always count on a liberal, eventually responding to something he claims you said, but doesn't even resemble anything you ever said. I notice that the people who do this, are generally people who are losing an argument, but cannot bring themselves to admit it.

I can say that Obama was divisive (and provide irrefutable, verifiable examples of his acting in such a way), and that says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about my view of Trump. They are different people, not inherently connected by every comment I make about one or the other.

There is very little that's unifying about Trump. There was very little that was unifying about Obama. Is that going too fast for you?

Several red state supreme courts would disagree with you.
It is about more than ID. I have zero issue with the ID portion, but they have found in NC, TX and maybe others that the targeted changes to early voting and other items were racially and or politically motivated.

I read one state requires drivers license or maybe I should say allows drivers license. The article showed that every County where there is a black majority later had all of the licensing centers closed making it harder to get a driver's license. If I have time maybe I'll look to see if I could find that article
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Paul, you cannot begin to make any kind of credible argument, that the tens of millions of people who voted for Trump, are any more sexist or racist than the people who voted for Hilary.

For your side to claim that there is widespread hatred of people of color or women, among those who voted for Trump...is just as crazy and offensive, as Trump claiming that Obama is a Muslim or wasn't born here.

The first thing I learned from election night 2016, is that middle America has limits for the amount of insults they are willing to endure. Your side hasn't begun to learn that lesson. Which explains what has happened in the special elections this year, every one of which was portrayed by the media, as a referendum on Trump...that is, until the democrat got his hat handed to him.

The GOP has the Oval Office, both houses of Congress, and an insane majority of state governorships and state legislatures. The only excuse Democrats are able to comprehend for that result, is that my side is racist. Because losing is acceptable, even noble, when one loses to evil. Convincing yourself of that, is much easier, than admitting that not many people are buying what your side is selling.

All of the special elections this year were in heavily Republican areas with a majority incumbent Republican I believe. The dems. though they would take him back and did not. So what does that show bc I'm not sure.

As far as Trump voters being racist certainly not every Trump voter is racist and certainly there are democratic voters who are racist. But I believe there was a backlash by the white middle-class whose skills have not kept up with a new economy and had fallen behind and view that the last 8 years with Obama minorities did better than they did. I also feel that a higher percentage of racists support the Republicans versus the Democrats.
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As far as Trump voters being racist certainly not every Trump voter is racist and certainly there are democratic voters who are racist. But I believe there was a backlash by the white middle-class whose skills have not kept up with a new economy and had fallen behind and view that the last 8 years with Obama minorities did better than they did. I also feel that a higher percentage of racists support the Republicans versus the Democrats.
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The "language" of numbers is devoid of emotion, morality, fairness, isms and ists, politics, race, personality, doctrine, belief, conscience, motivation, conjecture, or any form of the fog of human vagueness. It is precise, without connotation or contradiction. Applying numbers to those things which numbers are devoid of, without precise, verifiable data, is, as you implied for yourself, an exercise in vague personal "belief." As such, that is not reliable, and the inherent certainty of numbrs can be misused to "imply" something that may not exist.

"Racists," whatever and whomever you mean by that term may predominantly like watermelon. That does not mean that watermelon is bad or racist. "Racists" like, support, a great deal of things that non-racists do. The thing being supported does not have to be racist for a "racist" to support it. Republicans, as a party, don't espouse racism. Some may be racist. The Republican platform differs in some fundamental ways from the Democrat platform. It is no wonder that a "racist," or any other fringe group, would support the individual freedoms that Republicans supposedly espouse. Small fringe groups would prefer to have the ability to live their own lives without government dictating that they cannot.

All of the special elections this year were in heavily Republican areas with a majority incumbent Republican I believe. The dems. though they would take him back and did not. So what does that show bc I'm not sure.

As far as Trump voters being racist certainly not every Trump voter is racist and certainly there are democratic voters who are racist. But I believe there was a backlash by the white middle-class whose skills have not kept up with a new economy and had fallen behind and view that the last 8 years with Obama minorities did better than they did. I also feel that a higher percentage of racists support the Republicans versus the Democrats.
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I don't doubt that a majority of racists ( at least a majority of white racists) who vote , vote republican. That shows you how stupid that are ( because I believe that liberalism has done far for damage to blacks than conservatism ever could), and the influence of the media, all of whom, except foxnews, claim that the republican platform is racist

As a conservative, I want to give poor blacks all the tools they need, to escape poverty. That goal , for them to escape poverty, has no political payoff for me, I want them to escape poverty bevlcause no one should be poor. Lacks who cannot help themselves, I am more than happy to help out with social programs. That's the conservative position, and it's not racist.

Liberals? They tell blacks it's not their fault, and make it impossible for them to escape poverty by crippling them, making them addicted to welfare, and paying young girls to have babies out of wedlock.

That's what liberalism has done for blacks. Whether or not it's intentionally racist is a anyone's guess, but it has been a disaster. Liberals propose more of the same for blacks. Conservatives suggest a different path. You go ahead and tell me how the latter, is racist.
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