I am a lifelong Steelers fan. This takes care of that.

Are there any limits to what fans will tolerate? An interesting question, because the NFL fan base, unlike Broadway plays, I assume is made up of a majority of conservative patriots. But people are addicted to sports in a way that I can't quite understand.

I'm done for the year. I typically make it to a Steelers game a little more than every other year, no more...done.

The protests are just so stupid. What are the words in the national anthem, exactly, that allow one to connect the dots between that song, and police brutality? It's like protesting the price of Big Macs by throwing a brick through a window at Burger King, one has nothing to do with the other.

This is why Trump got elected, it's exactly why he got elected. He didn't talk above middle America, or around Middle America, nor did he pretend that he is Middle America. That's his unique strength as a politician. It's lost among his many flaws most of the time, but no one else has learned that lesson.

What are the words in the national anthem, exactly, that allow one to connect the dots between that song, and police brutality?


Stanza #3:
"And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave."

Of course, we only sing the first stanza. There are (were) 4. The connection to slavery (not police brutality) is explained in this short article: http://themoderatevoice.com/star-spangled-banner-written-freemen-not-slaves-not-hired-indentured/

Seeing as how we don't sing the last three stanzas (not many of us today know about them--I sure didn't) we have apparently already scrubbed the offending words out. But, I guess that's not good enough. We just gotta eliminate any trace of American history that offends someone.

That doesn't leave much of it left.

I am a lifelong Steelers fan. This takes care of that.

Are there any limits to what fans will tolerate? An interesting question, because the NFL fan base, unlike Broadway plays, I assume is made up of a majority of conservative patriots. But people are addicted to sports in a way that I can't quite understand.

I'm done for the year. I typically make it to a Steelers game a little more than every other year, no more...done.

The protests are just so stupid. What are the words in the national anthem, exactly, that allow one to connect the dots between that song, and police brutality? It's like protesting the price of Big Macs by throwing a brick through a window at Burger King, one has nothing to do with the other.

This is why Trump got elected, it's exactly why he got elected. He didn't talk above middle America, or around Middle America, nor did he pretend that he is Middle America. That's his unique strength as a politician. It's lost among his many flaws most of the time, but no one else has learned that lesson.



Same here, I'm done watching.
Screw the NFL.
You ask me they are digging their own graves.
Let the tv & radio ratings keep dropping !
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Conservatives one loves throwing the Freedom word around and speaking on the constitution and and about their 2nd amendments rights .. and how Nazis should be allowed to protest its their right

But take a Knee during the national anthem Ohh the outrage ..

this has everything to do about race and nothing to do with the National Anthem Trump played that card at his rally to his base

Not sure how this is disrespect toward the Military another argument i see getting tossed around

My oath said I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic

Says nothing about defending the National anthem

Stop it legally put a clause in all of their contracts when on the field they are on the clock . do it and get fired make it a condition of employment For all the players .. for my Job I cant smoke on or off the job I am subject to termination if i do

i dont hear that argument any place

Sounds like the peaceful protest is making Jim uncomfortable.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Stanza #3:
"And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave."

Of course, we only sing the first stanza. There are (were) 4. The connection to slavery (not police brutality) is explained in this short article: http://themoderatevoice.com/star-spangled-banner-written-freemen-not-slaves-not-hired-indentured/

Seeing as how we don't sing the last three stanzas (not many of us today know about them--I sure didn't) we have apparently already scrubbed the offending words out. But, I guess that's not good enough. We just gotta eliminate any trace of American history that offends someone.

That doesn't leave much of it left.

We don't sing the offensive words, and I promise you that the vast majority of players protesting, are unaware that they ever existed.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Conservatives one loves throwing the Freedom word around and speaking on the constitution and and about their 2nd amendments rights .. and how Nazis should be allowed to protest its their right

But take a Knee during the national anthem Ohh the outrage ..

this has everything to do about race and nothing to do with the National Anthem Trump played that card at his rally to his base

Not sure how this is disrespect toward the Military another argument i see getting tossed around

My oath said I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic

Says nothing about defending the National anthem

Stop it legally put a clause in all of their contracts when on the field they are on the clock . do it and get fired make it a condition of employment For all the players .. for my Job I cant smoke on or off the job I am subject to termination if i do

i dont hear that argument any place

Freedom of speech, means the.government cannot imprison you for speaking against it. It doesn't come close to meaning that your employer has to tolerate it, especially if it hurts your employers bottom line.

I work for an insurance company. I have the right to write a letter to the paper explaining why the company stinks. I am breaking no laws, the government cannot punish me. My employer has the right to fire me in the next second, for hurting their brand, and that's not a violation of my civil rights. Try making that wrong..
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Sounds like the peaceful protest is making Jim uncomfortable.
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Offended, not uncomfortable. Spence explain this to us...the league refused to let the cowboys wear a patch honoring slain Dallas cops, but it is ok with these protests. You go read Chairman Maos Little Red Book again, and see if there's anything in there that explains that logic. It's not just me, we know ratings are dropping. Let's see if this helps, let's see if the sociology department at Harvard buys season tickets now.
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Offended, not uncomfortable. Spence explain this to us...the league refused to let the cowboys wear a patch honoring slain Dallas cops, but it is ok with these protests. You go read Chairman Maos Little Red Book again, and see if there's anything in there that explains that logic. It's not just me, we know ratings are dropping. Let's see if this helps, let's see if the sociology department at Harvard buys season tickets now.
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Why does it offend you if someone peacefully raises awareness for something they believe in?

The patch thing was a simple uniform issue I believe.
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I bet the NFL is getting paid off to create this drama.
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I bet the NFL is getting paid off to create this drama.
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yup...probably by the Kochs

The protests are just so stupid. What are the words in the national anthem, exactly, that allow one to connect the dots between that song, and police brutality?

Yesterday's kneeling had nothing to do with protesting police brutality, it had everything to do with giving Trump a big FU.

Kind of funny how it was just a small handful doing it before yesterday. Then Trump comes out and says Boycott the NFL and pretty much every team and team owner, and even the commissioner, all come out in favor of letting it happen.

So when it was about an ethical issue.....pretty much crickets. But when it was about affecting the bottom line and pay checks....everybody is for it

#^&#^&#^&#^& the NFL

I remember all the outrage over Tebow doing it.

Hypocrites.

Yesterday's kneeling had nothing to do with protesting police brutality, it had everything to do with giving Trump a big FU.

Kind of funny how it was just a small handful doing it before yesterday. Then Trump comes out and says Boycott the NFL and pretty much every team and team owner, and even the commissioner, all come out in favor of letting it happen.

So when it was about an ethical issue.....pretty much crickets. But when it was about affecting the bottom line and pay checks....everybody is for it

#^&#^&#^&#^& the NFL


yup...once again...Trump does/says something stupid and the reaction is ever stupider :uhuh:

We get hammered for cold weather naturally deflating some footballs and when players ignore their own NFL rules and regs, why isn't Roger laying down the law and handing out the fines?

I agree as American's we all have the right to peacefully protest, but to disrespect the flag that represents the country that gave you those rights is IMHO just wrong. These same guys are making millions, go put that money to good work elsewhere, put your face behind a mic in your community to make a difference, there are so many more productive ways to get your message across.

To do it in front of the flag and while our national anthem is being sung, just pisses off the same people you are complaining about; how is that making that group of people want to change their opinions about you?

My dear departed Dad and big sports fan, would have turned off the TV in horror yesterday.

there are so many more productive ways to get your message across.



bingo.....just like protesters blocking a busy intersection.....you aren't going to change many minds with your message when you are just pissing people off

Why does it offend you if someone peacefully raises awareness for something they believe in?

The patch thing was a simple uniform issue I believe.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Despite the fact that you dodged my question completely (because you know there is no possible liberal answer to that, which makes any sense whatsoever), I will pay you the courtesy of answering your question directly.

First, I disagree that the thing they are protesting (widespread racial assassinations by white cops) exists. They might as well be protesting Bigfoot. Second, their method of protest makes zero logical sense. The national anthem has no connection to white cops. If you have a problem with white cops, make a sign that says "White cops need to be nicer to blacks", or join Black Lives Matter, do something that is somehow connected to the issue you are advocating. Their method of protest, is hurtful to people who don't deserve it. And they know this, and they don't care.

If the NFL wants to turn their backs on everyone who voted for Trump, and try to widen their appeal among liberal bed-wetting snowflakes, they have every right to make that business decision. Some decisions work out, some do not. Consumers can choose whether or not to support them, because despite what the Trump resistance believes, there's nothing remotely fascist about our country. If there's one thing we are learning during this presidency, it's that you can say anything you want about this man, and the government will take no action against you (unlike El Deuce Obama, who used the IRS as a club against conservatives), which is actually the opposite of fascism.

The patch thing was a simple uniform issue I believe.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Teams have always been allowed to put patches, armbands or markings on their uniforms to represent different thing.

When Myra Kraft passed away the Pats had her initials on their uniforms. The Cowboys and Jags had red circles on their uniforms in honor for remembrance day back in 2011 when they played in London.

There's been pink shoes and gloves for Breast cancer awareness. And Camouflage uniforms to honor the military

But the Dallas cowboys want to wear a patch to honor 4 slain officers from Dallas, and they get taken to the wood shed.

[QUOTE=Jim in CT;1128736]Despite the fact that you dodged my question completely /QUOTE]

I'm just glad he's back...I missed him terribly:love:.....must'uv finally connected the internets way up north

But the Dallas cowboys want to wear a patch to honor 4 slain officers from Dallas, and they get taken to the wood shed.

it would have been controversial and offensive apparently

I remember all the outrage over Tebow doing it.

Hypocrites.

You mean by the liberals, you know, because of the whole religion thing.

Because he didn't take a knee during the anthem, he took a knee when he scored a touchdown.

I suppose it would have been better if he just got on all fours, lifted his leg, and pretended to take a piss....

No by the people who thought he was disrespecting the game.

I have no problem w/either player(s). I wouldn't do it but understand why they are. I think the linking arms or placing your hand on the pads was a more respectful way of doing it.

Should have been a minor issue (as it was the weeks bf) until our uniter in chief had to tweet about it. Instead of of keeping his mouth shut he had to call them SOBs (a few weeks after saying some of the people protesting w/Nazis where "fine people").

I remember all the outrage over Tebow doing it.

Hypocrites.

What did he do, exactly? You mean taking a knee and praying after a score? Only a bunch of lefty, bigoted, thoughtless idiots could find that "offensive".

You are comparing Tebow praying after a score, to what these guys did?



Yeesh, you're having an off day. Giving thanks for success, isn't exactly the same thing as boycotting the national anthem.

No by the people who thought he was disrespecting the game.

I have no problem w/either player(s). I wouldn't do it but understand why they are. I think the linking arms or placing your hand on the pads was a more respectful way of doing it.

Should have been a minor issue (as it was the weeks bf) until our uniter in chief had to tweet about it. Instead of of keeping his mouth shut he had to call them SOBs (a few weeks after saying some of the people protesting w/Nazis where "fine people").

No one will accuse Trump of being a unifier. But that comment is exactly why he got elected, and no one on the left, including you apparently, has figured that out. Which is good for my side.

"Instead of of keeping his mouth shut "

I loved what he said. I despise much of what he says, but I loved that SOB comment. So did tens of millions of others. He resonates with Middle America. The left sees no value in that. Hilary's book could all be boiled down to that. Trump understands the people who live between the coasts. He may not genuinely care about them, I have no way of knowing. But he resonates with them.

You mean by the liberals, you know, because of the whole religion thing.

....

Sure, because of tolerance.

No one will accuse Trump of being a unifier. But that comment is exactly why he got elected, and no one on the left, including you apparently, has figured that out. Which is good for my side.I knew exactly why he did it - to appeal to his base. The older, white, somewhat racists Americans who have suffered w/years of declining earnings and whose skills can't keep up.

"Instead of of keeping his mouth shut "

I loved what he said. I despise much of what he says, but I loved that SOB comment. So did tens of millions of others. He resonates with Middle America. The left sees no value in that. Hilary's book could all be boiled down to that. Trump understands the people who live between the coasts. He may not genuinely care about them, I have no way of knowing. But he resonates with them.

I agree he resonates w/them. "fine people"

I love the outrage. I was taught to stand, hand over heart, hat off. I look around at events and half the crowd is holding a beer, hat on, scratching their balls, talking etc.. o bet half of that crowd is now outraged... I agree this was a minor issue Trump stirred up into a major fu by the players..
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I agree he resonates w/them. "fine people"

Yes, when you have embarrassed yourself and cannot admit that the other side has a point, play the racism card. How very original.

Most conservatives want blacks to be successful and thriving. Democrats, instead of using chains and German shepherds to cripple blacks like they did in the past, now use welfare and the soft bigotry of low expectations. But I am the somewhat racist. Got it.
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I love the outrage. I was taught to stand, hand over heart, hat off. I look around at events and half the crowd is holding a beer, hat on, scratching their balls, talking etc.. o bet half of that crowd is now outraged... I agree this was a minor issue Trump stirred up into a major fu by the players..
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Ratings were down last year and so far this year. Surveys show that these protests are a reason why. True the players did this as an fu to trump, but what you don't get, is that's exactly what he wants. You can't do anything more to stroke his ego than to get all foamy at the mouth over his statement. I think trump comes out of this way more popular than the NFL. Maybe not in Hollywood or in the upper west side of manhattan, but there is more to America than that. As Hilary found out too late
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Yes, when you have embarrassed yourself and cannot admit that the other side has a point, play the racism card. How very original. Maybe you can post something up about Berkley - you haven't done that it what 2 weeks? Are you denying that his campaign had no undercurrents dealing w/race?

Most conservatives want blacks to be successful and thriving. Democrats, instead of using chains and German shepherds to cripple blacks like they did in the past, now use welfare and the soft bigotry of low expectations. But I am the somewhat racist. Got it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Yup, the Dems keep blacks down by using welfare. Too bad they aren't smart enough to realize that - only Jim is. You should try telling them that someday.

I love the outrage. I was taught to stand, hand over heart, hat off. I look around at events and half the crowd is holding a beer, hat on, scratching their balls, talking etc.. o bet half of that crowd is now outraged... I agree this was a minor issue Trump stirred up into a major fu by the players..
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I actually was a fb game yesterday and I noticed more people were being quiet, hand over heart than other games. Prob. bc they were conscious of the controversy.

Yup, the Dems keep blacks down by using welfare. Too bad they aren't smart enough to realize that - only Jim is. You should try telling them that someday.

"Are you denying that his campaign had no undercurrents dealing w/race? "

No, I cannot deny that, because anytime a prominent liberal gets involved with a political issue (or an election), you can be assured that race will be a major topic for them. You couldn't get more than a couple of comments about this NFL issue without bringing charges of racism, so thanks for proving my point.

"Maybe you can post something up about Berkley - you haven't done that it what 2 weeks?"

Oh I'm obsessed with Berkley. I've made, what, 2 or 3 posts in the past year about the riots and damage done there? Yeah that's me, always getting worked up about silly little things like violent mobs who destroy neighborhoods to keep people from speaking. All in the name of anti-fascism. You can't make that up.

"the Dems keep blacks down by using welfare. "

You pay people to have kids out of wedlock, guess what happens?

"Too bad they aren't smart enough to realize that "

Paul, I often wonder, are liberals too blind to see the damage they are doing to the cities, or is that their intended plan? I don't know the answer, I can't see in people's hearts. All I know, is that urban liberalism has been a disaster for blacks. Do you disagree? Can you answer that question, Paul? Has liberalism worked in our urban cities for the last generation, yes or no?

"only Jim is"

Not remotely true. Tens of millions of people see it. We call them "conservatives". And at least one truly great, brave liberal, the late great Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan of the state of NY, who warned 40 years ago that liberal welfare was going to destroy the black nuclear family, therefore destroy the entire black culture. He was crucified for what he said. And he was 100% correct.

We got off topic. Which is the intent of lobbing nonsensical charges of racism...

"Are you denying that his campaign had no undercurrents dealing w/race? "

No, I cannot deny that, because anytime a prominent liberal gets involved with a political issue (or an election), you can be assured that race will be a major topic for them. So it is the liberals who made Trump blow the racist whistle:doh:You couldn't get more than a couple of comments about this NFL issue without bringing charges of racism, so thanks for proving my point. If you don't think Trump did this bc it was primarily black players you are stupid (and I don't think you are).

"Maybe you can post something up about Berkley - you haven't done that it what 2 weeks?"

Oh I'm obsessed with BerkleyAnd whiney college students that you think are liberal. how many times have you brought that up (and in posts that had nothing to do w/that). Why bring up Ben Shapiro in a thread about Trump working w/the Dems. on a spending cap? So it is not ok when you think someone does something, yet it is ok when you just did the exact same thing you are complaining you think the other person did? What is that word I am thinking of to descrbe that? Hmm. . I've made, what, 2 or 3 posts in the past year about the riots and damage done there? Yeah that's me, always getting worked up about silly little things like violent mobs who destroy neighborhoods to keep people from speaking. All in the name of anti-fascism. You can't make that up.

"the Dems keep blacks down by using welfare. "

You pay people to have kids out of wedlock, guess what happens?

"Too bad they aren't smart enough to realize that "

Paul, I often wonder, are liberals too blind to see the damage they are doing to the cities, or is that their intended plan? I don't know the answer, I can't see in people's hearts. All I know, is that urban liberalism has been a disaster for blacks. Do you disagree? Can you answer that question, Paul? Has liberalism worked in our urban cities for the last generation, yes or no?
And conservatism has been a great thing for the poor (of which blacks have a lower # but a higher %. Look at the repeal of Obamacare and the Trump budget - hurts poor while giving a tax break to the rich.
"only Jim is"

Not remotely true. Tens of millions of people see it. We call them "conservatives". And at least one truly great, brave liberal, the late great Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan of the state of NY, who warned 40 years ago that liberal welfare was going to destroy the black nuclear family, therefore destroy the entire black culture. He was crucified for what he said. And he was 100% correct.

We got off topic. Which is the intent of lobbing nonsensical charges of racism...

Not off topic bc to many players it was an issue of race - (unless you're blind to it).

N F L
No Fans Left

League is digging their own grave.
F*** them.
Watch as the ratings continue to drop and eventually sponsors pull out.
I know I'm done watching !
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Not off topic bc to many players it was an issue of race - (unless you're blind to it).

"And conservatism has been a great thing for the poor '

So you couldn't bring yourself to answer one, simple, direct yes/no question. What does it say about your agenda, that I can render you unable to defend it, with an obvious yes/no question?

"whiney college students that you think are liberal" Oh so the rioters at Berkley aren't really liberal, I am just painting them with that brush? I am literally wiping tears away from my eyes, from laughter...

Liberalism has taken many people out of poverty. There I answered it. You should move to one of the big cities you hate and run for Mayor on your position that blacks are too stupid to understand that liberals keep them under their thump and that you are smart enough to know that.

Did you figure out the word meant by your bringing up Ben Shapiro? I'm wiping the tears of laughter from my eyes bc as I've said to you repeatedly - you are what you hate.

Liberalism has taken many people out of poverty. There I answered it. You should move to one of the big cities you hate and run for Mayor on your position that blacks are too stupid to understand that liberals keep them under their thump and that you are smart enough to know that.

Did you figure out the word meant by your bringing up Ben Shapiro? I'm wiping the tears of laughter from my eyes bc as I've said to you repeatedly - you are what you hate.

"Liberalism has taken many people out of poverty. There I answered it"

Not even close to answering the question I asked. You had two tries, you aren't going to do it, let's drop it, I will let you off the hook.

"You should move to one of the big cities you hate"
Yes, I will run out and move my young boys from the suburbs to Hartford.

"run for Mayor on your position that blacks are too stupid to understand that liberals keep them under their thump and that you are smart enough to know that. "

No, no, I aid liberals are too stupid to see when their policies don't work. You live in CT, right? Well our state government, every 2 years, thinks that the way to prosperity is to borrow more, tax more, and spend more. It never, ever works. Yet two years later, all the liberals say that THIS time, by golly, tax hikes are sure to work.

If that's not stupidity, I don't know what is. Kind of like protesting police brutality (which doesn't exist in any institutional level to begin with) by kneeling during our national anthem, in a time of war.

Common sense problem solving, Paul. You solve a problem by addressing the cause of the problem. The cause of most black murders, the huge majority of them, is violence at the hands of other blacks. Liberals can't say that out loud God knows, so they focus on white cops, which as a group, obviously save more lives than they take (though, of course, 1 murderous cop is too many). The cause of black poverty isn't a lack of money (that's a symptom, not a cause), the cause is poor life choices made by blacks, often life choices that blacks are incentivized to make, thanks to liberalism (more babies = more welfare, no father around = more welfare).. But liberals can't say that out loud either, so they blame the evils of capitalism. See the pattern?

You solve a problem by attacking the cause, and that's whether or not the cause happens to serve one's political agenda. Conservatives get that, liberals don't. I have seen the wonders that liberalism has brought to Hartford, New Haven, and Bridgeport for 40 years, and I'm not impressed. If you can look at those cities, and conclude "what we need here, is more of the same policies that got us here", then you are either not that bright, or you are a serious racist.

Kind of like protesting police brutality (which doesn't exist in any institutional level to begin with) by kneeling during our national anthem, in a time of war.


.....on National Gold Star Mother's Day.

.....on National Gold Star Mother's Day.

It's so stupid, and so thoughtless, I'm not sure where to begin. If you don't like Trump, make a sign, or work on the Democrat campaign for whatever Mao-ist totalitarian nutjob they decide to run in 2020. Kneeling during the anthem?

Every sane person knows these jerks have the legal right to this kind of protest. But if they choose to do it at work, the Bill Of Rights doesn't mean the employer is precluded from taking action.

I have the right to walk around in a speedo. If I am a lawyer, and I dress like that in court, it is not a violation of my civil rights if my employer cans me.

N F L
No Fans Left

League is digging their own grave.
F*** them.
Watch as the ratings continue to drop and eventually sponsors pull out.
I know I'm done watching !
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

110% agree. I was all set to watch the Pats yesterday and after the anthem I shut the tv off tossed the remote on the floor and walked outside to split firewood and then painted the back deck. Actually texted my friend that I hoped "lobster claw" hit Brady extra hard and that the Pats would lose for their kneeling crap.

This is the GD Patriots! This team represents America, the Minutemen and the founding of our great country and they go out and disrespect the anthem and flag! I hope the Cowboys do as the owner says and stand together. If the Patriots can't be freaking patriots, then I hope the Cowboys can be America's Team.

Screw the NFL.

I love the outrage. I was taught to stand, hand over heart, hat off. I look around at events and half the crowd is holding a beer, hat on, scratching their balls, talking etc.. o bet half of that crowd is now outraged... I agree this was a minor issue Trump stirred up into a major fu by the players..
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Now if Trump could muster the same outrage for Nazis as he does for peaceful protests ... Doubt it.. his base wont allow it

Now if Trump could muster the same outrage for Nazis as he does for peaceful protests ... Doubt it.. his base wont allow it

Yes, legal US citizens who are Nazis, that actually acquired a permit for assembly became violent, when confronted by ANTIFA and BLM who did not have required permits.

Some Americans are Nazis, some are racists, and hell some are even witches and warlocks and they ALL have the same rights to free speech as anyone else.

But back to the topic at hand... the NFL is making a HUGE mistake on this. Best reply should have been similar to what they said about the request to honor police with the small badge on the uniform. "We are sorry but these items on uniforms or protests are not allowed on the work site". There is a time and a place for this and it is not on the NFL's work site.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VmCkUShGLw

Yes, legal US citizens who are Nazis, that actually acquired a permit for assembly became violent, when confronted by ANTIFA and BLM who did not have required permits.

Some Americans are Nazis, some are racists, and hell some are even witches and warlocks and they ALL have the same rights to free speech as anyone else.

But back to the topic at hand... the NFL is making a HUGE mistake on this. Best reply should have been similar to what they said about the request to honor police with the small badge on the uniform. "We are sorry but these items on uniforms or protests are not allowed on the work site". There is a time and a place for this and it is not on the NFL's work site.


I made that argument "Stop it legally put a clause in all of their contracts when on the field they are on the clock . do it and get fired make it a condition of employment For all the players .." but no one wants to frame it this way. to include the POTUS

This protest is a direct result of Trump: "Wouldn't you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say, 'Get that son of a bitch off the field right now. He is fired. He's fired!'" Nationalism hidden behind patriotism


The flag the disrespect of the military arguments are just camouflage

Trump cant say its not about Race when Blacks are the 99.9 of those who took a knee ..

I'm trying to figure out why they are are taking a knee.....that is a submissive posture....this is supposedly a defiant act....especially if you believe this is now all about Trump..you express your defiance by 'kneeling"?....I think they have their symbolism all messed up....but we know there's rampant brain damage in the NFL

ooooh...maybe they should all do that throat slash gesture thingy....now that would be "defiant".....wait....noooo....they would get fined and maybe suspended by the NFL for doing that

turns out the greatest, most effective Saul Alynskiite community organizer of our time is Donald Trump

I made that argument "Stop it legally put a clause in all of their contracts when on the field they are on the clock . do it and get fired make it a condition of employment For all the players .." but no one wants to frame it this way. to include the POTUS

This protest is a direct result of Trump: "Wouldn't you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say, 'Get that son of a bitch off the field right now. He is fired. He's fired!'" Nationalism hidden behind patriotism


The flag the disrespect of the military arguments are just camouflage

Trump cant say its not about Race when Blacks are the 99.9 of those who took a knee ..

It IS in their contract, its called the Personal Conduct Policy. The NFL has suspended/fined many a player for violations of the policy. Its a catch-all that they use quite frequently. The NFL has decided not to use it here. So since they are deciding to let them protest in this manner, they get to deal with any and all fallout from it.

and believe it or not, people actually DO appreciate what the men/women serving do. It is not "Camouflage", it truly is pissing people off, and that certainly isn't going to garner any sympathy for their cause.

the NFL should replace Carrie Underwood with Jane Fonda....they don't deserve Carrie or that dress....YEOW!!!

Not off topic bc to many players it was an issue of race - (unless you're blind to it).
Remember, you're talking to someone who denies white privledge exists.
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Remember, you're talking to someone who denies white privledge exists.
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:rtfm:

https://pics.me.me/white-privilege-atermoftenused-against-working-class-men-byupperclassicollegekids-12727205.png

It IS in their contract, its called the Personal Conduct Policy. The NFL has suspended/fined many a player for violations of the policy. Its a catch-all that they use quite frequently. The NFL has decided not to use it here. So since they are deciding to let them protest in this manner, they get to deal with any and all fallout from it.
That is correct and in fact I think they have something in the contract about the Anthem.

and believe it or not, people actually DO appreciate what the men/women serving do. It is not "Camouflage", it truly is pissing people off, and that certainly isn't going to garner any sympathy for their cause.

I don't think the players mean any disrespect towards people who served. It is just that they feel blacks aren't being treated equally.

I don't think the players mean any disrespect towards people who served. It is just that they feel blacks aren't being treated equally.

oooohhh, that makes sense....so getting down on one knee during the National Anthem(often while someone who is "black" is singing the National Anthem)...does exactly what again??

oooohhh, that makes sense....so getting down on one knee during the National Anthem(often while someone who is "black" is singing the National Anthem)...does exactly what again??



Pretty sure most would agree the best performance of the national anthem at any NFL game ever was Whitney Houston, one of the Bills Super Bowls.
Pretty sure she was black and lived quite a "privileged" life unlike the majority of white America.
The only thing that gets you privilege today is $$$
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I don't think the players mean any disrespect towards people who served. It is just that they feel blacks aren't being treated equally.

I may have bought that the very first time they did it, But when it was first done last year it was very evident that people were taking it as disrespectful. To keep doing it tells me they are very aware that it is being taken that way. Because I don't think they lack the intelligence to understand that.

I may have bought that the very first time they did it, But when it was first done last year it was very evident that people were taking it as disrespectful. To keep doing it tells me they are very aware that it is being taken that way. Because I don't think they lack the intelligence to understand that.
So playing devil's advocate. If I say someone posts here are racist and they truly believe they are not, should they stop posting those thoughts? Wouldn't their change of behavior indicate that their prior actions were infact racist?

Pres. Trump's calling them "SOBs" after calling Neo Nazis' "fine people" threw fuel on the fire. I just read a report saying he did it bc he wanted to shore up support from his base after the firestorm of complaints that he worked w/Schumer and Pelosi. He saw the reaction in Iowa after comments he made about Kapernick. Watch the approval rating from his base go up next time polls are released after they recently eroded.

What does Nebe say "Making America hate again".

So playing devil's advocate. If I say someone posts here are racist and they truly believe they are not, should they stop posting those thoughts? Wouldn't their change of behavior indicate that their prior actions were infact racist?
.

Just because you say someone's posts are racist.....doesn't automatically make them so...

That word has been so over used as of late it has completely lost its effectiveness.

Well it certainly looks like Ben Roethlisberger know what the anthem represents, as well as him mentioning other team mates and teams knowing what it means too...

Remember, you're talking to someone who denies white privledge exists.
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The protests last year were about race. The protests yesterday, were about Trump insulting them, let's not turn this into a march into Selma.

I don't think the players mean any disrespect towards people who served. It is just that they feel blacks aren't being treated equally.

I am sure you are correct, I bet that most of the players respect the military. But they didn't care, that this form of protest, is upsetting to those same people.

And again, if the players were concerned with racial injustice, they would have protested last year with Colin what's-his-name. Yesterday was about Trump criticizing them, not about racial justice. Come on.

I may have bought that the very first time they did it, But when it was first done last year it was very evident that people were taking it as disrespectful. To keep doing it tells me they are very aware that it is being taken that way. Because I don't think they lack the intelligence to understand that.

That's a great post.

I don't think their intent is to insult the military. Nor was their intent to shed light on racial inequality. Their intent was to give the finger to Trump.

I don't think many of these guys are smart enough to scratch their name in the dirt with a stick, they have been pampered and sheltered their whole lives, I don't think they are capable of processing how the real world works anymore, they are too far removed.

Maybe you are right, maybe they consider the pain they are causing these military families and they just don't care. I like to think it's not that, but I cannot know for sure.

Either way, Trump wins this round, big time. The people who deny that, are the ones who still have no idea why he won.

Pres. Trump's calling them "SOBs" after calling Neo Nazis' "fine people" threw fuel on the fire. ".

Not remotely what he did. He condemned the Nazis, again and again and again. You can't concede that, because it doesn't fit The Narrative.

The NFL wouldn't let the Cowboys honor assassinated police officers, then allowed this. THAT threw fuel onto the fire. Maybe a little, maybe more than a little. we'll see next week. Probably not much.

Not remotely what he did. He condemned the Nazis, again and again and again. You can't concede that, because it doesn't fit The Narrative.No, he didn't. Every time he condemned the Nazis (and he only did it reluctantly) he made comments about antifa - those trying to equalize the 2. He even made the stupid comment that they didn't have a permit. And that is way almost all politicians (of both sides) criticized him.

The NFL wouldn't let the Cowboys honor assassinated police officers, then allowed this. THAT threw fuel onto the fire. Maybe a little, maybe more than a little. we'll see next week. Probably not much.

NM

NM

"time he condemned the Nazis (and he only did it reluctantly) he made comments about antifa "

Not true. He has been condemning racism in general, and Nazis in particular, since long before the Charlottesville protest. Find the videos, as you like to say, they are easily available in Google. Many of his public denunciations of Nazis, are not reluctant.

As regards the Charlottesville event, his wording was awful, and he deserves criticism for it. But outside of that, he has made no secret of his contempt for Nazis. But when he says "I condemn Nazis", and what you hear is "I think Nazis are fine people", well, that's more your issue than his issue.

Look at everything he has said and done on the subject of race, not just Charlottesville. Your side ensures that we will all have plenty of opportunity to comment on race, so don't judge him based on cherry-picked statements where he put his foot in his mouth, but on his whole record. None of us, not even Trump, are merely the sum of our mistakes.

But when he says "I condemn Nazis", and what you hear is "I think Nazis are fine people", well, that's more your issue than his issue.
I'm just going by what he said.


Look at everything he has said and done on the subject of race, not just Charlottesville. Your side ensures that we will all have plenty of opportunity to comment on race, so don't judge him based on cherry-picked statements where he put his foot in his mouth, but on his whole record. None of us, not even Trump, are merely the sum of our mistakes.

I always laugh at "your side" comments. Most people think of us as all on the "same side"

The fact that the Cowboys & Jerry Jones kneeled BEFORE that anthem & people still booed proves that the anger was never about the flag.

I always laugh at "your side" comments. Most people think of us as all on the "same side"

"I'm just going by what he said."

No, you are going by what you heard. Two very different things.

You're right, the left doesn't focus on race at all, no more so than the right.

"I'm just going by what he said."

No, you are going by what you heard. From news broadcasts of Trump's speaches Two very different things.go back and read the transcripts.

You're right, the left doesn't focus on race at all, no more so than the right.

Have I claimed that? bc I can't recall doing that. Pls. point out where I said that.

The fact that the Cowboys & Jerry Jones kneeled BEFORE that anthem & people still booed proves that the anger was never about the flag.

Was anybody on the Cardinals kneeling during the anthem? pretty sure there were two teams out there.

The fact that the Cowboys & Jerry Jones kneeled BEFORE that anthem & people still booed proves that the anger was never about the flag.

so the home team Cardinals fans booed the visiting Cowboys????...so it ain't so !#@!???

so the home team Cardinals fans booed the visiting Cowboys????...so it ain't so !#@!???

Yeah, I just noticed they played at Arizona. So they all took a Knee, including the loveable Jerry Jones. And they came out and kneeled, which got the fans all riled up, then suddenly stood up.....and magically 60,000+ are just gonna stop booing the cowboys....

Well I'm Sold :rolleyes:

Was anybody on the Cardinals kneeling during the anthem? pretty sure there were two teams out there.

I read that there wasn't. They stood for the anthem.

Yeah, I just noticed they played at Arizona. So they all took a Knee, including the loveable Jerry Jones. And they came out and kneeled, which got the fans all riled up, then suddenly stood up.....and magically 60,000+ are just gonna stop booing the cowboys....

Well I'm Sold :rolleyes:

I'm very curious to see what happens next weekend. I hope there are massive boycotts, I expect tiny boycotts.

The protests last year were about race. The protests yesterday, were about Trump insulting them, let's not turn this into a march into Selma.

Yes Trump was insulting black players for taking a knee. Hence they all took a knee as a clear FU to Trump Not sure how you Missed the race side of it . But understood the FU side Easily?
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Yes Trump was insulting black players for taking a knee. Hence they all took a knee as a clear FU to Trump Not sure how you Missed the race side of it . But understood the FU side Easily?
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Funny how the fake outrage gets to define the spirit of the protesters...that's ripe.

This thread is stuck on stupid.

Yes Trump was insulting black players for taking a knee. Hence they all took a knee as a clear FU to Trump Not sure how you Missed the race side of it . But understood the FU side Easily?
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Sigh. The protests last year, were about racial injustice. Almost none of the players paid attention, meaning they didn't care much about the issue being protested then. Then Trump shot his mouth off, so 200 players chimed in. Sunday's NFL protests had zero to do with racial injustice, and everything to do with hatred of Trump. That's fine, let's just not call it something other than it was.

I didn't hear Trump say that white players who protest, should keep their jobs. Therefore it wasn't about race. Good God, give it a rest. Does every single thing have to be about race when there is zero evidence of racial involvement? If he lobs the same exact insult at everybody regardless of race, then how in God's name is it racist, exactly?

Sigh. Then Trump shot his mouth off, so 200 players chimed in. Sunday's NFL protests had zero to do with racial injustice, and everything to do with hatred of Trump.

I didn't hear Trump say that white players who protest, should keep their jobs. Therefore it wasn't about race. Good God, give it a rest. Does every single thing have to be about race when there is zero evidence of racial involvement? exactly?


you tend to not hear anything or see its about Race at any time or place? thats what i find Odd when Trumps comments were clearly about who's Taking an Knee and the Vast Majority are Black (very clear ) ... But i guess if you sprinkle a white guy in here or there it changes things ...

This thread is stuck on stupid.

I'd like to disagree, but.....:huh:

This thread is stuck on stupid.

For sure, hurricane devastation and Kim threatening EMP detonation or that we declared war on them and all everyone seems to be talking about is the NFL. Read a disturbing article on what the likely impact of any country attacking us with an EMP detonation and that was a very scary reality. Might be the only people smiling after that would be the survivalists, people with self contained water and solar power and an old style ham radio tower.

you tend to not hear anything or see its about Race at any time or place? thats what i find Odd when Trumps comments were clearly about who's Taking an Knee and the Vast Majority are Black (very clear ) ... But i guess if you sprinkle a white guy in here or there it changes things ...

Wrong again.

I care deeply about injustice. But it has to be actual, real injustice...not made u[p, fabricated injustice. It's not remotely racist for Trump to call everyone who previously protested (blacks and whites) an SOB. It's not an elegant thing to say, it's not a presidential thing to say, it's probably not a smart thing to say. But it's not even a tiny bit racist.

Believe it or not, it's possible to feel critical of someone who isn't white, and not be in the Klan.

"the Vast Majority are Black "

Aha!!

So was Trump differentiating between those who are black, and those who are white? because if he lumped them all together, how can it be racist? He didn't say "fire the black ones, and give raises to the white ones". Skin color had absolutely zilch to do with it.

Wrong again.

Skin color had absolutely zilch to do with it.


and disrespecting the flag and the Military... had absolutely zilch to do with them taking a knee

But many here have jumped thru hoops to make it look like some how it was about that ... funny how that works

and disrespecting the flag and the Military... had absolutely zilch to do with them taking a knee

But many here have jumped thru hoops to make it look like some how it was about that ... funny how that works

Kaepernick's own words: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

The flag is not just a piece of cloth in a certain shape and in various colors. It is a symbol. Colin did not choose to make his protest in a church, or a town hall or public square, or a letter to the Times, or in the halls of Congress, he specifically chose the playing of the national anthem as the time not to "show pride" in the flag, to protest against it and what, to him, it symbolizes.

Kaepernick's own words: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

The flag is not just a piece of cloth in a certain shape and in various colors. It is a symbol. Colin did not choose to make his protest in a church, or a town hall or public square, or a letter to the Times, or in the halls of Congress, he specifically chose the playing of the national anthem as the time not to "show pride" in the flag, to protest against it and what, to him, it symbolizes.

to bad Kaepernick's not in the NFL and this isn't about his. Taking a knee.

Is its much better to show our respect for the flag and wear it on a bandana or a swimsuit or pair of shorts or an outfit or shoes like Shara Palain... than taken a knee ..??

Is its much better to show our respect for the flag and wear it on a bandana or a swimsuit or pair of shorts or an outfit or shoes like Shara Palain... than taken a knee ..??

I believe that would be considered showing pride rather than disdain...I hope she's wearing a star spangled thong too:bshake:

Isn't there a flag code or something similar about how to display the flag.
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to bad Kaepernick's not in the NFL and this isn't about his. Taking a knee.

Is its much better to show our respect for the flag and wear it on a bandana or a swimsuit or pair of shorts or an outfit or shoes like Shara Palain... than taken a knee ..??

I don't think the shoes Palin was wearing were actual flags. Nor were they a protest against the flag. If anything, as Scott noted, they were showing a symbolic pride in the stars and stripes. But if you think she was trying to show disrespect for the flag, that's you're opinion. If you think she was protesting the flag and what it represents, then you and Palin are probably not on the same philosophical wavelength. She didn't, as far as I know, make a public statement that the flag represented oppression.

Was your attached photo of Sarah's fashion statement somehow supposed to be evidence that Colin was not protesting the flag and what it represents?

Isn't there a flag code or something similar about how to display the flag.
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probably for an actual flag...you could Google that or something(I know..."snarky"):rollem:....if burning an actual flag is an acceptable form of free speech and expression and anger I suppose wearing a likeness of the flag on a tee shirt or bikini as an expression of pride must be too right???.....

probably for an actual flag...you could Google that or something(I know..."snarky"):rollem:....if burning an actual flag is an acceptable form of free speech and expression and anger I suppose wearing a likeness of the flag on a tee shirt or bikini as an expression of pride must be too right???.....
Actually I don't think that response is snarky. I don't think burning a flag while an expression of free speech would be an expression of pride.
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I don't think burning a flag while an expression of free speech would be an expression of pride.

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that's a relief...do you have a problem with people wearing versions of it on clothing etc. as an expression of free speech and pride?...or is it just a Palin thing?

I think it is funny that someone wearing a flag inappropriately would complain about someone taking a knee during the nation anthem when those folks say they mean no disrespect to the military, flag, etc.
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I don't think the shoes Palin was wearing were actual flags. Nor were they a protest against the flag. If anything, as Scott noted, they were showing a symbolic pride in the stars and stripes. But if you think she was trying to show disrespect for the flag, that's you're opinion. If you think she was protesting the flag and what it represents, then you and Palin are probably not on the same philosophical wavelength. She didn't, as far as I know, make a public statement that the flag represented oppression.

Was your attached photo of Sarah's fashion statement somehow supposed to be evidence that Colin was not protesting the flag and what it represents?


you and Scott proved my point its all its all perception.. Palain wears it for Marketing the Flag... to promote herself my perception

Scott thinks its pride his perception

I see it as disrespectful to the Nation and Veterans when people in NC were carrying around Nazi flags.. much more so than taking a knee My perception

Trump and many saw it as just a protest but taking a knee those SOB'S!! others perception

Kneel or stand, fly a flag or dont. be a Vet or not . wear flag heels or maybe only on the weekend ,,,If for what ever reason you Have bought into the Narrative that some how your more Patriotic then another American. because you do or did any of those things. your not More Patriotic your just arrogant

Isn't there a flag code or something similar about how to display the flag.
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4 U.S. Code § 8 - Respect for flag
US Code
Notes
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No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.

(a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.

(b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.

(c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.

(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker’s desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.

(e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.

(f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.
(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.

(h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.

(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.

(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.
(Added Pub. L. 105–225, § 2(a), Aug. 12, 1998, 112 Stat. 1497.)

Kneeling is not listed

Isn't there a flag code or something similar about how to display the flag.
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Yes, and it says you should stand for the national anthem.

§171. Conduct during playing

During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed there.
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you and Scott proved my point its all its all perception.. Palain wears it for Marketing the Flag... to promote herself my perception

Scott thinks its pride his perception

I see it as disrespectful to the Nation and Veterans when people in NC were carrying around Nazi flags.. much more so than taking a knee My perception

Trump and many saw it as just a protest but taking a knee those SOB'S!! others perception

Kneel or stand, fly a flag or dont. be a Vet or not . wear flag heels or maybe only on the weekend ,,,If for what ever reason you Have bought into the Narrative that some how your more Patriotic then another American. because you do or did any of those things. your not More Patriotic your just arrogant

There is no need for "perception." I quoted Koepernick's reason in his own words. Your perception doesn't agree with his words.

I see it as disrespectful to the Nation and Veterans when people in NC were carrying around Nazi flags..



I googled "Charlottesville Protest" and viewed all of the images just out of curiosity as I didn't pay much attention to the whole thing...I counted exactly "1" Nazi flag, lots of confederate flags which you almost never see in the south and lots of fools dressed like it's halloween....there were three images containing the nazi flag but it was the same guy in each and I'm pretty sure if there were Nazi flags everywhere there would have been photographers flocking to capture the imagery...personally, I'd ban the Nazi flag as it's symbolism is nauseating and the regime the it stood for had no redeeming value...the person carrying that flag should probably be institutionalized for serious mental illness...but we don't do that any more...we put them on the street so that some can show up at rallies with Nazi flags and so others can get elected to Congress etc..:)

you and Scott proved my point its all its all perception.. Palain wears it for Marketing the Flag... to promote herself my perception

What is your perception of Kaepernick's stated reason for kneeling instead of standing? Do you perceive a respect for the flag or anthem in his words? Do you perceive a respect for the country in his words? Why is it necessary to "perceive" what he meant when he explicitly stated why he did not stand?

Scott thinks its pride his perception

Do you "perceive" that Palin was saying that she did not respect the flag or country by wearing those shoes? Has she actually said anything, such as Kaepernick did, to show lack of pride or respect for the flag or anthem?

I see it as disrespectful to the Nation and Veterans when people in NC were carrying around Nazi flags.. much more so than taking a knee My perception

What has someone carrying a Nazi flag have to do with Kaepernick kneeling rather than standing? Oh . . . wait . . . I get it. It's a matter of quantity. You think it's much MORE disrespectful than kneeling during the anthem. So, then, you do feel it's disrespectful to kneel, but just not as much as it is to carry a Nazi flag. I see the connection now.

Trump and many saw it as just a protest but taking a knee those SOB'S!! others perception

The "perception is reality" thing is misused. It only works at a superficial level. Saying perception is actually reality is saying that there is no reality, that there is no such thing as that which we define as "a thing that exists in fact, having previously only existed in one's mind" or "the state or quality of having existence or substance."

Kneel or stand, fly a flag or dont. be a Vet or not . wear flag heels or maybe only on the weekend ,,,If for what ever reason you Have bought into the Narrative that some how your more Patriotic then another American. because you do or did any of those things. your not More Patriotic your just arrogant

I don't recall saying any of the things you describe here as being more or less patriotic. For the record, I am not offended, nor care very little, that athletes kneel during the anthem. What I care about is why they say they're doing so. The statistical facts ("reality") don't bear out their complaint. Their "perception" is skewed. I care that they believe they or their perceived kind are being oppressed in the manner and quantity they express. And that they help to instill that perception in others. I care that, rather than making for a more harmonious society, they are making it more difficult to have a society.

I care that there is a concerted, deliberate, attempt to change the legal structure and social values which once made us the envy of the actually oppressed people of other nations. And I care that, rather than preserve our constitutional structure and values of individual freedom and responsibility, we entice others to come here not mainly for freedom, but for the new America which doesn't require actual assimilation into the original American ideal and which promises lots of goodies regardless of efforts to earn them. I care about the balkanization, the conflicting divisiveness this new America engenders.

That we are #^&#^&#^&#^&ering about the kneeling rather than standing, and whether it comports with a code of conduct, and whether its more or less patriotic than wearing so-called flag shoes is why I said this thread is stuck on stupid.

It is not the kneeling, but the reason for it that is stupid. We are stuck on not discussing that but on more useless wahatevers.

BTW, not only did TDF blow your and Paul's code bit out of the water by pointing out that the code also requires standing during the anthem, but in my opinion, even the code thing is a bit much. It is more a wish list, a recommendation, than an enforceable law. Not even the government follows the code. The Post Office has been issuing stamps for several years depicting the flag. There are even several series of flag stamps. These stamps violate sections b, c, e, g, h, and i of the code. That is, if we consider the stamps as actual flags. But then, if we consider shoes to be actual flags, then I guess stamps could be too.

Also, section j of the code is really too much heading toward nonsense. It says that the flag is considered a "living thing." Really? Well, I guess if perception is reality, then one can perceive that.

Yes, and it says you should stand for the national anthem.

§171. Conduct during playing

During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed there.
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Should stand .. it doesn't say you will stand or must stand ... because as Americans you have freedom of choice or are we North korea now?

Should stand .. it doesn't say you will stand or must stand ... because as Americans you have freedom of choice or are we North korea now?

It tells you how to show proper respect, if your not standing then your not respecting....why is that such a hard concept to understand?

So if you are physically able to, you should stand.

And another thing, the people that they are trying to get sympathetic to their cause.....really don't want to discuss the intent of the word "Should"

You absolutely have the freedom to choose. And sometimes that choice comes with consequences. This consequence of this choice is that fans are choosing to think they are A-Holes. Welcome to America.
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It tells you how to show proper respect, if your not standing then your not respecting....why is that such a hard concept to understand? do have an issue with people talking drinking beer on their phone your upset and 10 people on a field taking an Knee thats Amazing whos policing them??
So if you are physically able to, you should stand.

And another thing, the people that they are trying to get sympathetic to their cause.....really don't want to discuss the intent of the word "Should"

You absolutely have the freedom to choose. And sometimes that choice comes with consequences. This consequence of this choice is that fans are choosing to think they are A-Holes. Welcome to America. no only the Fans you agree with its called echo chamber
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Again facts dont matter

U.S. Army veteran Nate Boyer convinced Colin Kaepernick to kneel, rather than sit, while protesting police brutality during the national anthem.

Shocking

Again facts dont matter

U.S. Army veteran Nate Boyer convinced Colin Kaepernick to kneel, rather than sit, while protesting police brutality during the national anthem.

Shocking

What does that have to do with what I replied with.

and I could give a rat's ass what Nate Boyer did.

U.S. Navy veteran TDF thinks they are a bunch of dumbasses for kneeling during the national anthem to protest.

do have an issue with people talking drinking beer on their phone

Yes, yes I do....and I think they are A-Holes too

Should stand .. it doesn't say you will stand or must stand ... because as Americans you have freedom of choice or are we North korea now?

TDF never said, or even implied, that anyone should be compelled to stand. Paul asked if there was a code, and there is, and TDF posted it. He answered the question EXACTLY as it was asked. I know that a direct answer to a direct question isn't something that liberals have an easy time recognizing, but that's what it was.

It's a free country. They are free to kneel without fear of getting arrested. Fans are free to get offended by it. And because they are in the entertainment industry, if they offend enough fans, the owners are probably free to fire anyone who does it, if they want to. If I act in a way that hurts my company's bottom line, they can fire me, even if I'm not breaking any laws. I can't walk around with a t-shirt that says my company stinks, and expect to keep my job.

I would never support a law that made it a crime to kneel during the anthem. But I would be very happy if they all got fired for doing it. Having the legal right to do something, and having the right to do it while at work without fear of consequence, are two very different things.