View Full Version : Jerusalem


JohnR
12-08-2017, 08:51 PM
Good goal to someday have Jerusalem as the recognized capitol, or as an Open City.

Like the concept - now is not the time IMO.

As for Palestinian Days of Rage - ain't that every day?

Nebe
12-08-2017, 10:34 PM
Gotta make those evangelicals happy!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

JohnR
12-08-2017, 11:03 PM
Gotta make those evangelicals happy!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device


Well, most people that are not anti-Israel would like to see it or at least have it an open city. Not everyone hates the Jews or wears Che shirts ya know.

wdmso
12-09-2017, 05:11 AM
not anti Israel but honestly what benefit do they provide the united states compared to the head ache they provide us internationally.. look how they have treated non jews .
between the settlements and the basics its a 2 way way street but many pro israel see it as as a one way street and any negative your labeled a jew hater from israel supporters ....

if Trump just walked away from the 2 state solution which would be ok with me .. if he didn't roll a hand grenade in the room and officially pick a side and then walked out .. ( who's side we were on has never been in question) lets see how he likes the new reality

scottw
12-09-2017, 05:19 AM
President Bill Clinton made Jerusalem a campaign issue in 1992, attacking then-former President George H.W. Bush for having allegedly “repeatedly challenged Israel’s sovereignty over a united Jerusalem” and vowing to move the embassy during his administration.

George W. Bush castigated Clinton for failing to follow through on his embassy promise and vowing to get the process started in his few months in office. Bush never made a concerted effort towards moving the embassy and became embroiled his own Middle East conflicts.

President Barack Obama declared in a 2008 campaign speech, “Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided.”

President Donald Trump :kewl: will begin the formal process of moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem Wednesday and recognize the city as Israel’s capital, actually fulfilling a campaign pledge many of his predecessors made.

spence
12-09-2017, 07:31 AM
President Bill Clinton made Jerusalem a campaign issue in 1992, attacking then-former President George H.W. Bush for having allegedly “repeatedly challenged Israel’s sovereignty over a united Jerusalem” and vowing to move the embassy during his administration.

George W. Bush castigated Clinton for failing to follow through on his embassy promise and vowing to get the process started in his few months in office. Bush never made a concerted effort towards moving the embassy and became embroiled his own Middle East conflicts.

President Barack Obama declared in a 2008 campaign speech, “Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided.”

President Donald Trump :kewl: will begin the formal process of moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem Wednesday and recognize the city as Israel’s capital, actually fulfilling a campaign pledge many of his predecessors made.
You might consider reading wdsmo's posts about whataboutism.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

scottw
12-09-2017, 07:34 AM
You might consider reading wdsmo's posts about whataboutism.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I try...it's never easy reading

Nebe
12-09-2017, 08:37 AM
My beef with Israel is that we give them billions of dollars a year. Their citizens get.... wait for it.......... free health care and a free education.

Let that sink in.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim in CT
12-09-2017, 04:15 PM
Gotta make those evangelicals happy!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Funny, many liberals were in favor of this, they even passed a bill naming Jerusalem the capital ( never signed into law). But when trump does it, it’s evil.

If the jihadists declare a fatwah on math next, or Mozart, are we suddenly afraid to tout those things?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim in CT
12-09-2017, 04:18 PM
My beef with Israel is that we give them billions of dollars a year. Their citizens get.... wait for it.......... free health care and a free education.

Let that sink in.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It’s a tiny country that’s 99 percent white. And for damn sure they don’t have open borders. So not exactly an apples to apples comparison in terms of universal healthcare.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim in CT
12-09-2017, 04:19 PM
President Bill Clinton made Jerusalem a campaign issue in 1992, attacking then-former President George H.W. Bush for having allegedly “repeatedly challenged Israel’s sovereignty over a united Jerusalem” and vowing to move the embassy during his administration.

George W. Bush castigated Clinton for failing to follow through on his embassy promise and vowing to get the process started in his few months in office. Bush never made a concerted effort towards moving the embassy and became embroiled his own Middle East conflicts.

President Barack Obama declared in a 2008 campaign speech, “Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided.”

President Donald Trump :kewl: will begin the formal process of moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem Wednesday and recognize the city as Israel’s capital, actually fulfilling a campaign pledge many of his predecessors made.

But when obama says it, it’s brilliant. When trump says it, he’s Hitler. Don’t you know that?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Nebe
12-09-2017, 05:16 PM
It’s a tiny country that’s 99 percent white. And for damn sure they don’t have open borders. So not exactly an apples to apples comparison in terms of universal healthcare.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I’m sorry, but universal healthcare means universal health care. And why the F does my tax dollars go to them? They can take care of themselves.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

wdmso
12-09-2017, 05:46 PM
what is the up side for the united states...? I see how Trump used it as a look what he did moment for his base... Can the base tell me how this policy change is going benefit the US

Sea Dangles
12-09-2017, 05:58 PM
I would like to know how Obama handing over 200000000 dollars to Iran helped the United States.

Oh,that was a good idea because it was Obamas idea right?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

spence
12-09-2017, 06:15 PM
I would like to know how Obama handing over 200000000 dollars to Iran helped the United States.

Oh,that was a good idea because it was Obamas idea right?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
It wasn't Obama's idea, it was set long before Obama.

wdmso
12-09-2017, 06:34 PM
I would like to know how Obama handing over 200000000 dollars to Iran helped the United States.

Oh,that was a good idea because it was Obamas idea right?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device


https://www.snopes.com/obama-bribed-iran-400-million-to-release-u-s-prisoners/

the $400 million dollar transfer was actually an openly announced one, paid in settlement of a nearly 40-year dispute between Iran and the United States — a settlement that likely saved the United States several billion dollars.

Back in late 1979, after Iranian revolutionaries took 52 Americans hostage at the US Embassy in Tehran, the United States severed diplomatic relations with Iran and froze Iranian assets in America. Among those frozen assets was a $400 million delivery of fighter jets from the U.S. that Iran’s previous government had already paid for.

please excuse all the facts

Nebe
12-09-2017, 06:49 PM
But her emails!!!!!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Sea Dangles
12-09-2017, 07:18 PM
what is the up side for the united states...? I see how Trump used it as a look what he did moment for his base... Can the base tell me how this policy change is going benefit the US

This will benefit the US solely by virtue of the fact that all Israeli government is based in Jerusalem whereas TelAviv is an hour way.

There is zero chance our current president gives the Iranians what we rightfully stole from them.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Slipknot
12-09-2017, 07:34 PM
And why the F does my tax dollars go to them? They can take care of themselves.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

now you are getting it

I'm sure it is complicated but if they are the only nation that did not get a cut to their aid this year, there must be a good reason.

how about China? can't they take care of themselves? Australia? and on and on and on


https://explorer.usaid.gov/aid-trends.html

nightfighter
12-09-2017, 08:07 PM
This will benefit the US solely by virtue of the fact that all Israeli government is based in Jerusalem whereas TelAviv is an hour way.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

This is one of the only things I have heard that makes sense about making this move. Purely a business move.... With a little nod to his daughters' in-laws and their influential friends, who were heavy contributors based on their interest in the state of Israel

Jim in CT
12-09-2017, 08:30 PM
I’m sorry, but universal healthcare means universal health care. And why the F does my tax dollars go to them? They can take care of themselves.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

No it does not. Asking people to pay for their own healthcare, isn’t anywhere near the same as asking people to pay for healthcare for everyone who chooses to stroll into the country. Nebe, is it the same for you to provide for you, as it is for you to open your door and let anyone in who wants free stuff?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

detbuch
12-09-2017, 09:33 PM
But Trump is a white supremacist anti-Semite.

Nebe
12-09-2017, 11:20 PM
No it does not. Asking people to pay for their own healthcare, isn’t anywhere near the same as asking people to pay for healthcare for everyone who chooses to stroll into the country. Nebe, is it the same for you to provide for you, as it is for you to open your door and let anyone in who wants free stuff?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You are off your rocker.

Universal health care. And free education for all.
What is it about this that you can not grasp?
Why do we give them billions?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

scottw
12-09-2017, 11:29 PM
Their citizens get.... wait for it.......... free health care and a free education.

Let that sink in.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

they don't get free healthcare....they also pay co-pays, there are caps and they buy supplemental private insurance in addition

Wage-earners and the self-employed must pay 3.1% of their monthly salary up to NIS 5,804 and 5% of anything earned above that.[21] Employers are legally obligated to deduct insurance contributions from their employees' salaries, while the self-employed must arrange payment on their own. Pensioners have contributions deducted from their pensions, as do those receiving unemployment benefits. Those who are not working but have income must pay 5% of their income in health premiums, while those who are not working and have no income must pay NIS 170 a month. Only a select few categories of people are exempt from paying health premiums.


college is not free

After secondary education, students are generally conscripted into the Israel Defense Forces (IDF), but may request a postponement of the conscription date to study at a pre-service Mechina, undertake a voluntary service year, or study in a college or university. Those who study in a university at this stage generally do so under a program called atuda, where the tuition for their bachelor's degree is paid for by the army. They are however obliged to sign a contract with the army extending their service by 2–3 years.

Nebe
12-09-2017, 11:39 PM
Ok. I still want to k ow why we give them billions of dollars .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

scottw
12-10-2017, 12:44 AM
Ok. I still want to k ow why we give them billions of dollars .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device


Every year, the United States supports over 100 foreign governments with billions of dollars worth of aid funding. According to the U.S. government, this is done to support global peace, security, and development efforts, and to provide humanitarian relief during times of crisis. Considered vital to U.S. national security, this funding is also allocated for strategic, economic and moral reasons.

The Obama administration has requested Congress allocate $37.9 billion to foreign assistance in the budget for fiscal 2016, the majority of it for governments in the Middle East. The final appropriation could differ significantly. The president requested the largest amount of aid for Israel, some $3.1 billion, primarily in support of peace and security.

spence
12-10-2017, 09:12 AM
Ok. I still want to k ow why we give them billions of dollars .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
We give Egypt nearly as much money. Generally speaking we give them tens of billions of taxpayer dollars so they will buy US military equipment.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

wdmso
12-10-2017, 09:59 AM
still haven't seen a compelling argument on up side for Trumps declaration and how this will fundamentally change issues on the ground in the middle east positively

spence
12-10-2017, 10:01 AM
still haven't seen a compelling argument on up side for Trumps declaration and how this will fundamentally change issues on the ground in the middle east positively
He did it to toss his evangelical base a bone. That's about it. He's desperate for a hit, even a bloop single.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Sea Dangles
12-10-2017, 10:27 AM
I can see why an issue as simple as this has some of our best contributors confused. They scratch their head when they see a person actually do what they said they were going to do. They wonder how and why when things actually get done.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

scottw
12-10-2017, 10:29 AM
I thought Israel is a Jewish State...not evangelical

wdmso
12-10-2017, 11:46 AM
I can see why an issue as simple as this has some of our best contributors confused. They scratch their head when they see a person actually do what they said they were going to do. They wonder how and why when things actually get done.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Do you respect some one more? if they say there going to jump off the golden gate bridge and they do ?

thats about what Trump just did he never considered what happens when you hit the water

wdmso
12-10-2017, 11:53 AM
the real reason why Jerusalem should have been left alone

Nebe
12-10-2017, 11:56 AM
I’d wager a guess that there a lot of people in this country that have zero clue about the history of the Israel /Palestine situation. If people actually took the time to learn the history of this, they might view what is going on with a different light. Independent thought seems to be a dead art these days.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Sea Dangles
12-10-2017, 12:08 PM
Do you respect some one more? if they say there going to jump off the golden gate bridge and they do ?

thats about what Trump just did he never considered what happens when you hit the water

I can sense the confusion,the erratic punctuation gives it way.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

spence
12-10-2017, 12:13 PM
I’d wager a guess that there a lot of people in this country that have zero clue about the history of the Israel /Palestine situation. If people actually took the time to learn the history of this, they might view what is going on with a different light. Independent thought seems to be a dead art these days.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Start here.

https://www.amazon.com/Jerusalem-One-City-Three-Faiths/dp/0345391683

Nebe
12-10-2017, 12:18 PM
Start here.

https://www.amazon.com/Jerusalem-One-City-Three-Faiths/dp/0345391683

You assume that the average murkin can read a whole book.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

spence
12-10-2017, 12:21 PM
You assume that the average murkin can read a whole book.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Sorry, forgot this was S-B.com :1poke:

scottw
12-10-2017, 12:51 PM
Independent thought seems to be a dead art these days.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

this from the guy whose every post reads like he just lifted it from a bumper sticker :jester:

wdmso
12-10-2017, 02:07 PM
I can sense the confusion,the erratic punctuation gives it way.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Ahh the grammar police .. you forgot I am just a Prison Guard

spence
12-10-2017, 04:06 PM
I thought Israel is a Jewish State...not evangelical
Prophecy.

Jim in CT
12-10-2017, 06:04 PM
Obama said Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, that was briliant and worthy of the Nobel peace prize. Trump says it, and he’s trying to start a war.

Nikki Haley is praising the decision. If trump doesn’t run in 2020, a real possibility, she will be Pences running mate.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

spence
12-10-2017, 06:11 PM
Obama said Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, that was briliant and worthy of the Nobel peace prize. Trump says it, and he’s trying to start a war.
Jim. Obama said it once as a candidate in front of a Jewish audience and quickly amended himself.

I think you need to appreciate that not everything is as black and white as you'd like to make it to be.

wdmso
12-10-2017, 06:27 PM
Jim. Obama said it once as a candidate in front of a Jewish audience and quickly amended himself.

I think you need to appreciate that not everything is as black and white as you'd like to make it to be.

Saying 1 thing and doing it are not the same . Action without thought is dangerous but this does not seem compute with Trumps faithfull

Cool Beans
12-10-2017, 06:31 PM
Like all elected officials, Trump made grand promises that apparently nobody on the left and even many on the right did not believe he would actually do it.

He is doing EXACTLY what he told everyone he would do if they elected him... Have any of you listened to this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc1d30mCHbo

spence
12-10-2017, 06:51 PM
He is doing EXACTLY what he told everyone he would do if they elected him... Have any of you listened to this?

Isn't Bibi close to going to jail?

Cool Beans
12-10-2017, 07:23 PM
Isn't Bibi close to going to jail?

Not unless he legally changes his name to Hillary..... LOL

Sea Dangles
12-10-2017, 08:42 PM
Oh snap
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

The Dad Fisherman
12-10-2017, 08:52 PM
This whole thing is like getting a great deal on an apartment, and not moving in because your going to piss the neighbors off. :hee:
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

JohnR
12-11-2017, 05:56 PM
You are off your rocker.

Universal health care. And free education for all.
What is it about this that you can not grasp?
Why do we give them billions?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

What is this Free thing you keep mentioning? My tax software doesn't let me put FREE in at the end.

I’d wager a guess that there a lot of people in this country that have zero clue about the history of the Israel /Palestine situation. If people actually took the time to learn the history of this, they might view what is going on with a different light. Independent thought seems to be a dead art these days.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Israel's capital is Jerusalem. Our embassy's tend to go in the capital of the country. That would be JTown.

Difficult? I think not.

spence
12-11-2017, 07:59 PM
Israel's capital is Jerusalem. Our embassy's tend to go in the capital of the country. That would be JTown.

Difficult? I think not.
I think you're forgetting that little issue of International Law.

JohnR
12-11-2017, 08:17 PM
I think you're forgetting that little issue of International Law.


Hahahaha :rotflmao: :hs: :bl:

Cool Beans
12-11-2017, 10:07 PM
I think you're forgetting that little issue of International Law.

Pretty sure the country picks where its capital is.

What if the UN and "international law" decided Fall River was the US Capital?

International Law doesn't decide a damn thing where a country chooses to place its capital.

If "international law" can dictate where a sovereign nation can place it's capital, I guess they can also select the state bird. I am hoping they name it after you.... the coo coo ;)

wdmso
12-12-2017, 04:47 AM
Pretty sure the country picks where its capital is.

What if the UN and "international law" decided Fall River was the US Capital?

International Law doesn't decide a damn thing where a country chooses to place its capital.

If "international law" can dictate where a sovereign nation can place it's capital, I guess they can also select the state bird. I am hoping they name it after you.... the coo coo ;)

I think many forget how Israel became a country .. by the UN (league of nations )
and "international law"...

Still haven't seen how this helps the United states

JohnR
12-12-2017, 06:50 AM
I think many forget how Israel became a country .. by the UN and "international law"...

Still haven't seen how this helps the United states


So the Peoples Front of Judea started in 1947 as a result of the UN?

Nothing about the previous 3000 years of struggle?

Jim in CT
12-12-2017, 10:54 AM
Nothing about the previous 3000 years of struggle?

No, because it doesn’t fit the current narrative.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim in CT
12-12-2017, 10:57 AM
Still haven't seen how this helps the United states

Having an ally in the Middle East, when we are at war with jihadists, doesn’t help us in any way that you see? You don’t think we share intelligence with Israel?

Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, that’s not complicated. What if next, the jihadistsbdecude they hate music? Do we pretend there’s no such thing as music?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

spence
12-12-2017, 11:47 AM
Having an ally in the Middle East, when we are at war with jihadists, doesn’t help us in any way that you see? You don’t think we share intelligence with Israel?
They sure do, and then Trump blabs about it with the Russians.

spence
12-12-2017, 11:55 AM
So the Peoples Front of Judea started in 1947 as a result of the UN?

Nothing about the previous 3000 years of struggle?
If memory serves me correctly the city has had many owners over the past 3 millennium.

The 1947 protocol intended to keep the city under International control. When Israel announced all of Jerusalem to be their capital in 1980 it was found to be a violation of international law.

It's complicated, but I don't think you can just issue a mandate and expect everyone to follow.

Sea Dangles
12-12-2017, 02:27 PM
Spence seems to think a lot less of Israelis than Trump.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

spence
12-12-2017, 03:29 PM
Spence seems to think a lot less of Israelis than Trump.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
I'd wager Trump knows little about Israel other than having some Jewish friends in New York.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

wdmso
12-12-2017, 04:22 PM
Having an ally in the Middle East, when we are at war with jihadists, doesn’t help us in any way that you see? You don’t think we share intelligence with Israel?

Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, that’s not complicated. What if next, the jihadistsbdecude they hate music? Do we pretend there’s no such thing as music?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

they were already our ally !! and they haven't let us use their air bases to attack theses Jihadist why do you think that is ?? for the same reason the US has steered clear of the Jerusalem question for decades

Whats your take on settlements legit or just land grab like we did with the American Indians

JohnR
12-12-2017, 07:02 PM
If memory serves me correctly the city has had many owners over the past 3 millennium.

The 1947 protocol intended to keep the city under International control. When Israel announced all of Jerusalem to be their capital in 1980 it was found to be a violation of international law.

It's complicated, but I don't think you can just issue a mandate and expect everyone to follow.

It is complicated, however the open status of Jerusalem has been under pressure due to minor things like invasions...

they were already our ally !! and they haven't let us use their air bases to attack theses Jihadist why do you think that is ?? for the same reason the US has steered clear of the Jerusalem question for decades

Whats your take on settlements legit or just land grab like we did with the American Indians

Did Israel grab the land? Or did they not relinquish it after each and every attack on them?

wdmso
12-13-2017, 04:54 PM
It is complicated, however the open status of Jerusalem has been under pressure due to minor things like invasions...



Did Israel grab the land? Or did they not relinquish it after each and every attack on them?

settlements are a land grab thats clear as day

keeping land after a conflict . called occupied territories please note the area around jerusalem

Sea Dangles
12-13-2017, 08:48 PM
Is your suggestion to give the land back after a conflict? Please elaborate. Tell your s what you would do?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim in CT
12-13-2017, 08:52 PM
Israel has also removed settlements and offered backnprevious strips of land. It didn’t make anyone stop hating them.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

wdmso
12-14-2017, 04:59 AM
Is your suggestion to give the land back after a conflict? Please elaborate. Tell your s what you would do?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Thats what the peace process was designed to hammer out


What land have we kept after a conflict ..

wdmso
12-14-2017, 05:03 AM
Israel has also removed settlements and offered backnprevious strips of land. It didn’t make anyone stop hating them.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

build 10 remove one.. I love your reasoning


3\4 the arab world hate them for what they do.. the rest have always hated them for political reason and history ..

in the USA 3\4 love them for political reasons the rest clearly see what they do and dont give them a pass and the right says we hate them

The Dad Fisherman
12-14-2017, 06:48 AM
What land have we kept after a conflict ..

Guam

JohnR
12-14-2017, 08:05 AM
Thats what the peace process was designed to hammer out


What land have we kept after a conflict ..

The Thirteen Colonies?

build 10 remove one.. I love your reasoning


3\4 the arab world hate them for what they do.. the rest have always hated them for political reason and history ..

in the USA 3\4 love them for political reasons the rest clearly see what they do and dont give them a pass and the right says we hate them

The Arab world hates them because it is popular with the little guy and because Religion - not politics. Well not fair because for many Arabs Politics IS Religion.

Some of us also like the Underdog, an American thing, and the Israelis have been the poster-child Underdog for 4000 years.

spence
12-14-2017, 11:24 AM
The Arab world hates them because it is popular with the little guy and because Religion - not politics. Well not fair because for many Arabs Politics IS Religion.
Jews and Muslims have lived side by side peacefully in the region through long stretches...it's all about politics and power first, religion second.

Pete F.
12-14-2017, 11:48 AM
I find it interesting that people who support the nation of Israel based on historic claims, do not support Native Americans claim to sovereignty when they controlled all of the New World 500 years ago.
Palestinians historically were the residents of Palestine and comprised a number of tribes, one of which became known as the Jews.
It is a long and complicated history and Jerusalem has been in the possession of many rulers. The British plan of dividing up the middle east into separate entities has not worked very well yet, has it? It will be hard to change because fortunes rest on the outcome and no one wants to lose their share.

detbuch
12-14-2017, 02:25 PM
I find it interesting that people who support the nation of Israel based on historic claims, do not support Native Americans claim to sovereignty when they controlled all of the New World 500 years ago.

The "New World" was not a nation 500 years ago. The inhabited sections were populated by different tribes, not one people, who at various times and places, fought with each other. One of the first efforts at some form of unity was by the Iroquois, which by no means included all "Native Americans," and was an effort in response to European settlers. I suppose, restoring all of the "New World" to the various tribes, what is left of them, would be the end of the U.S. Perhaps the U.N. could settle the matter for us.

Palestinians historically were the residents of Palestine and comprised a number of tribes, one of which became known as the Jews.
It is a long and complicated history and Jerusalem has been in the possession of many rulers. The British plan of dividing up the middle east into separate entities has not worked very well yet, has it? It will be hard to change because fortunes rest on the outcome and no one wants to lose their share.

Records seem to show that there was no such ethnicity as Palestinian.
Here's a bit of history, probably from a Jewish perspective, but open to debunking by anyone who wants to give it a try:

http://www.indaweb.com/oil/editorialopinion/tzemach.news.service01l.htm

Pete F.
12-14-2017, 03:54 PM
One would need to remember that Native Americans had a different view of the world that was not based on owning property but living as part of the world around them.
Didn't work out well for them, did it?

There is no more an ethnicity of Palestinians than there is of residents of the United States, Americans.
That link is very much to a current Jewish perspective IMHO.
But what I said was Palestine was "were the residents of Palestine and comprised a number of tribes, one of which became known as the Jews"
Look at it from a much longer period of history like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine
for Palestine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem
And this for Jerusalem

wdmso
12-14-2017, 04:38 PM
Guam

and who did they take it from see how this goes

Sea Dangles
12-14-2017, 06:06 PM
They took if from the Spanish Kingdom who relinquished the territory without incident.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

The Dad Fisherman
12-14-2017, 06:13 PM
They took if from the Spanish Kingdom who relinquished the territory without incident.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

:uhuh:
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

detbuch
12-14-2017, 06:45 PM
One would need to remember that Native Americans had a different view of the world that was not based on owning property but living as part of the world around them.

That makes it difficult, then, to compare notions of Native American "sovereignty" regarding property, to land disputes between Israelis and "Palestinians."

Didn't work out well for them, did it?

Perhaps, there is a lesson for us there regarding borders and immigration.

There is no more an ethnicity of Palestinians than there is of residents of the United States, Americans.

Agreed. Israel seems to be far closer to the identity mix that comprises the U.S. Not so much similarity of identity mix in the Palestinian territories.

That link is very much to a current Jewish perspective IMHO.

I agree with that. But is it incorrect?

But what I said was Palestine was "were the residents of Palestine and comprised a number of tribes, one of which became known as the Jews"

In that case, then the Jews there are also Palestinian. And so would be the Christians. Sounds like civil war among Palestinians.

Look at it from a much longer period of history like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine
for Palestine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem
And this for Jerusalem

That history decided sovereignties by war. Maybe that's what going on there now.

wdmso
12-16-2017, 04:43 PM
its hard to to speak about issues in modern times when people want to time travel back to May 10, 1898. to justify seizing land after a conflict in the 60's

Cool Beans
12-16-2017, 04:53 PM
TO be absolutely honest using the same logic, this could be the map of the US. How different would it be if some more powerful people, forced us return the land? We have been here only a few hundred years.

scottw
12-16-2017, 05:31 PM
TO be absolutely honest using the same logic, this could be the map of the US. How different would it be if some more powerful people, forced us return the land? We have been here only a few hundred years.

makes a pretty solid great case for strong secure borders and no illegal immigration does't it?

Cool Beans
12-18-2017, 05:06 PM
makes a pretty solid great case for strong secure borders and no illegal immigration does't it?

Indeed it does. LOL

wdmso
12-20-2017, 04:45 PM
Jerusalem UN vote: Trump threatens US aid recipients

UN Nikki Haley warned member states that President Trump had asked her to report on "who voted against us" :spin:



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42431095

spence
12-20-2017, 07:58 PM
Jerusalem UN vote: Trump threatens US aid recipients

UN Nikki Haley warned member states that President Trump had asked her to report on "who voted against us" :spin:



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42431095

Par for the course. Less concerned with policy as much as retribution.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

detbuch
12-20-2017, 10:55 PM
How dare you not give us money! We won't stand for such a threat!!

Sea Dangles
12-20-2017, 11:00 PM
Par for the course. Less concerned with policy as much as retribution.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

He is vindictive but I am not sure where you drew this opinion from. His policy is not exactly choosing the easy road. Your insider must have told you about Trumps priorities.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Nebe
12-20-2017, 11:01 PM
Par for the course. Less concerned with policy as much as retribution.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

What a joke. We are the laughing stock of the world thanks to Cheeto.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Sea Dangles
12-21-2017, 08:16 AM
We have been the laughing stock for a long time. We just aren't the suckers we once were. Don't despair, it won't stop the rest of the world from trying to bend us over and take advantage.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

spence
12-21-2017, 11:15 AM
He is vindictive but I am not sure where you drew this opinion from. His policy is not exactly choosing the easy road. Your insider must have told you about Trumps priorities.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
It's from watching his behavior.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Sea Dangles
12-21-2017, 12:17 PM
No argument here
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device