This government shutdown is so frustrating on many levels, but what really pisses me off is the political players are getting paid while our men and women in the military aren't. Term limits, pay scale, pensions, it's all wacky and the only people who can make a change are the only ones who will suffer if they do.

I think it was a republican who drafted the bill to freeze pay. Yet they blame the democrats. Flush all these turds down the drain when it’s time to vote. ALL of them.
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It sucks - I just got home after being told to leave work. Been a DOD employee for 40 years and been through plenty of these - most end up being a paid vacation for me which I actually hate. I'd rather work. The real power stands with us federal workers - we should show up to work anyway - but I can't get others to join me. If Fed workers would just show up anyway the leverage of a Gov shutdown would disappear and we wouldn't be used as pawns.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42766159


US shutdown: White House voicemail changed to blame Democrats
.
The Vice-President just told troops in the field that Democrats are playing games with their pay.


I am all ways disgusted when the parties us the Military as a political toy..

the longest shut down lasted 17 days fyi Note: Each servicemember has the option of receiving his or her pay one or two times a month. If they select to receive their pay twice a month they will receive semi-monthly pay on the 15th of each month - if the 1st or 15th falls on Saturday or Sunday, payday is the Friday before.

so this line the dems are taking pay away from the Troops is a lie

and when it ends everyone gets back pay no one losses any money :kewl::kewl:

what hasn't been mentioned since Oct this is what the 4th CR and dems approved and went along with the 1st 3 ... Republicans thought the could feed the dems what ever they wanted and the dems would blink its what they usually do ... and play along ... this time they did not and Republicans dont know what to do besides scream Obstruction which i find ironic coming from the party of NO

Freaking GOP holds both houses of Congress and the Presidency and can't even fund the government. Big problem here is POTUS doesn't understand his own position and hence nobody can negotiate.

But Spence. Trump is the great deal maker ! Oh wait. He’s also the master of bankruptcy. What a train wreck.
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I don't mind that they get paid. They are working to try to get a budget passed. I hope that the gov. ees that are required to come to work are getting paid.

Freaking GOP holds both houses of Congress and the Presidency and can't even fund the government. Big problem here is POTUS doesn't understand his own position and hence nobody can negotiate.

It required 60 votes in the senate. The GOP doesn't have 60 seats in the senate. The GOP can't force 9 democrats to vote for the funding if they don't want to.

Part of this, at least a part, is whether or not it's acceptable for the minority party to demand that an un-related issue (like, oh, say DACA) be inserted into a bill required to pass to keep the government operating.

When the GOP was in the minority and they threatened to do the same thing, Schumer et al had some harsh criticism for them. We have seen those videos. How is this any different form that?

They all stink, both parties, and we need non-ideologues who can actually solve problems.

The GOP did not even have unity in its own party.
"A shutdown falls on the President's lack of leadership. He can't even control his party and get people together in a room. A Shutdown means the President is weak"
Donald Trump 2013
I do think it is time for some new politicians and I think the past year will produce some.

I hope that the gov. ees that are required to come to work are getting paid.

They are not, they will get paid their next payday as it is for the pay period ending last Saturday. After that it will depend on how long the shutdown continues as to whether they get their next check. They will receive all back pay when this is resolved.

The folks living paycheck to paycheck could be hurting if this drags out.

It required 60 votes in the senate. The GOP doesn't have 60 seats in the senate. The GOP can't force 9 democrats to vote for the funding if they don't want to.

Part of this, at least a part, is whether or not it's acceptable for the minority party to demand that an un-related issue (like, oh, say DACA) be inserted into a bill required to pass to keep the government operating.

When the GOP was in the minority and they threatened to do the same thing, Schumer et al had some harsh criticism for them. We have seen those videos. How is this any different form that?

They all stink, both parties, and we need non-ideologues who can actually solve problems.

:uhuh:

It required 60 votes in the senate. The GOP doesn't have 60 seats in the senate. The GOP can't force 9 democrats to vote for the funding if they don't want to.

Part of this, at least a part, is whether or not it's acceptable for the minority party to demand that an un-related issue (like, oh, say DACA) be inserted into a bill required to pass to keep the government operating.

When the GOP was in the minority and they threatened to do the same thing, Schumer et al had some harsh criticism for them. We have seen those videos. How is this any different form that?

They all stink, both parties, and we need non-ideologues who can actually solve problems.
The GOP couldn't even get all the Republicans on board. The issue here isn't the Dems or even DACA which most everyone (including Trump before his aids suggested it was a bad idea) supports...the issue is the disconnect between the Senate Republicans and the Whitehouse.

This government shutdown is so frustrating on many levels, but what really pisses me off is the political players are getting paid while our men and women in the military aren't. Term limits, pay scale, pensions, it's all wacky and the only people who can make a change are the only ones who will suffer if they do.


Military is paid through till 1st of February.
Me thinks this is all to deflate the upcoming state of the union address.
What pisses me of is if you search each senator & congressman (woman) annual government salary, how many years they have served, and their net worth..........
How the hell can a senator making $190k a year, serve whatever many years and be worth 10-100s of millions ???
The math doesn’t add up other than each and every one of them is taking huge sums of $$$ for corporate and outside us influence!
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The GOP couldn't even get all the Republicans on board. The issue here isn't the Dems or even DACA which most everyone supports...the issue is the disconnect between the Senate Republicans and the Whitehouse.

"The GOP couldn't even get all the Republicans on board"

True. It's also true that if they had all the Republican senators, that would have had exactly zero effect on the outcome. True or false?

I like that there are moderate Republicans. Sometimes they do things I like, sometimes they don't.

"The issue here isn't the Dems or even DACA "

Then your issue isn't the shutdown. Because the Dems caused the shutdown by demanding that DACA be part of it. DACA has nothing to do with operational funding.

"even DACA which most everyone supports"

If that's true, then we have a responsibility to let our elected officials know that. That has nothing to do with the operational budget. The ems inserted it in there thinking it would put pressure on the GOP to pass it. It didn't work.

"the issue is the disconnect between the Senate Republicans and the Whitehouse"

No, it's not. Because even if all the Republican senators were in agreement, we'd be in the same exact situation. They don't have 60 seats.

They should let the dems have their way with DACA, and th eprice is the dems agree to the wall. Hell, the tax windfall we're getting from Apple alone will fund the wall.

"The GOP couldn't even get all the Republicans on board"

True. It's also true that if they had all the Republican senators, that would have had exactly zero effect on the outcome. True or false?

I like that there are moderate Republicans. Sometimes they do things I like, sometimes they don't.

"The issue here isn't the Dems or even DACA "

Then your issue isn't the shutdown. Because the Dems caused the shutdown by demanding that DACA be part of it. DACA has nothing to do with operational funding.

"even DACA which most everyone supports"

If that's true, then we have a responsibility to let our elected officials know that. That has nothing to do with the operational budget. The ems inserted it in there thinking it would put pressure on the GOP to pass it. It didn't work.

"the issue is the disconnect between the Senate Republicans and the Whitehouse"

No, it's not. Because even if all the Republican senators were in agreement, we'd be in the same exact situation. They don't have 60 seats.

They should let the dems have their way with DACA, and th eprice is the dems agree to the wall. Hell, the tax windfall we're getting from Apple alone will fund the wall.

its called governance (The action or manner of governing)the GOP has not idea on how to Govern. The last 8 years they were the party of NO!! now they are the party of we dont know how... ..

3 R senators didn't vote for it and 2 D senators did, IIRC.

I would actually be impressed if they could pass a real budget that is not a Continuing Resolution.

its called governance (The action or manner of governing)the GOP has not idea on how to Govern. The last 8 years they were the party of NO!! now they are the party of we dont know how... ..

Sure - all Republican's fault. Always the Republicans. Only the Republicans.

It is both parties

its called governance (The action or manner of governing)the GOP has not idea on how to Govern. The last 8 years they were the party of NO!! now they are the party of we dont know how... ..

"The last 8 years they were the party of NO!! "

Then using that logic, isn't that what the Democrats are now?

"the GOP has not idea on how to Govern"

It would appear that the public disagrees with you. The GOP controls the White House, both chambers of Congress, and a HUGE majority of state legislatures and governorships. How do you explain that?

[QUOTE=JohnR;1135700]3 R senators didn't vote for it and 2 D senators did,



Those 2 D are up for re-election
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2:30 p.m.

President Donald Trump says he is pleased that congressional Democrats "have come to their senses"


baaaa...haaaa...haaa :hihi:

2:30 p.m.

President Donald Trump says he is pleased that congressional Democrats "have come to their senses"


baaaa...haaaa...haaa :hihi:

Is that what he believes or what Stephan Miller told him to say?

Is that what he believes or what Stephan Miller told him to say?

who is Stephan Miller?

Freaking GOP holds both houses of Congress and the Presidency and can't even fund the government. Big problem here is POTUS doesn't understand his own position and hence nobody can negotiate.

SIXTY Spence, they needed 60 in the Senate. You know this, you are just being difficult to be difficult.

[QUOTE=JohnR;1135700]3 R senators didn't vote for it and 2 D senators did,



Those 2 D are up for re-election
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And those 3 Ds are in red leaning states and have broken ranks before

It's all about being able to say I blah...blah...blahh
They have screwed things up so bad lawyering the rules to death in the last 40 years that we need to do a hard reset on Congress and get it back to how it is supposed to work.
The way it works best is if you have to compromise to get things to pass, it keeps things pretty much in the middle, middle is good.

It's all about being able to say I blah...blah...blahh
They have screwed things up so bad lawyering the rules to death in the last 40 years that we need to do a hard reset on Congress and get it back to how it is supposed to work.
The way it works best is if you have to compromise to get things to pass, it keeps things pretty much in the middle, middle is good.

Being in the middle of stupid ideas or in the middle of unconstitutional legislative proposals are not good places to be.

"The last 8 years they were the party of NO!! "

Then using that logic, isn't that what the Democrats are now?

"the GOP has not idea on how to Govern"

It would appear that the public disagrees with you. The GOP controls the White House, both chambers of Congress, and a HUGE majority of state legislatures and governorships. How do you explain that?


People are dumb

Being in the middle of stupid ideas or in the middle of unconstitutional legislative proposals are not good places to be.

Reaching a consensus among your colleagues would likely put you in the middle.
Letting the liberal AND conservatives have too much power has put us where we are today
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People are dumb

The people who want a high quality of life, but who don't want to overpay for it...they are dumb? Well, they are winning. Here in CT, we are losing productive citizens to places that are a better value - similar quality of life, far lower cost.

Here in CT, we are losing productive citizens to places that are a better value - similar quality of life, far lower cost.

Like where?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/economy/2018/01/15/fastest-growing-and-shrinking-states-closer-look/1019429001/

The fastest growing states

8. Arizona
•1-yr pop. growth rate: 1.66%
•Current population: 6.93 million
•2015 population: 6.82 million
•10-yr pop. growth rate: 14.96%

Arizona’s population grew by 1.7% in 2016, more than twice the 0.7% national population growth rate. Much of Arizona’s growth was due to new residents migrating to the state. A net total of 61,544 Americans relocated to Arizona that year, the fourth most of any state. Many of those moving to Arizona likely came for employment opportunities. From 2015 to 2016, Arizona’s unemployment rate fell from 6.0% to 5.3% — one of the largest percentage-point drops of any state over the period.

7. Colorado
•1-yr pop. growth rate: 1.68%
•Current population: 5.54 million
•2015 population: 5.45 million
•10-yr pop. growth rate: 17.37%

Colorado’s population grew by 1.7% in 2016, among the fastest pace of any state. Like many of the fastest growing states, domestic migration contributed the most to Colorado’s rapid population growth. A net influx of 50,216 Americans relocated to Colorado in 2016, more than all but five other states. Colorado has sustained rapid population growth throughout the past decade. Since 2006, the state’s population has increased by 17.4%, the fastest pace of any state other than Texas and Utah. The population growth occurred alongside a steep decline in unemployment. Just 3.3% of the Colorado labor force is unemployed, tied with Vermont as the sixth lowest unemployment rate of any state.

6. Oregon
•1-yr pop. growth rate: 1.71
•Current population: 4.09 million
•2015 population: 4.02 million
•10-yr pop. growth rate: 11.51%

Since 2006, Oregon’s population has grown at an average rate of 1.1%. The state’s population growth rate spiked in 2016, when the number of residents in the state grew 1.7% — faster than nearly any other state. Approximately 3 in every 4 new Oregonians in 2016 moved to the state from elsewhere in the country, with the remaining population increase due to natural growth — the number of births less the number of deaths. Many new residents likely came to Oregon for economic opportunity. The state’s unemployment rate fell from 5.6% in 2015 to 4.9% in 2016, one of the largest percentage-point declines of any state.

5. Washington
•1-yr pop. growth rate: 1.78%
•Current population: 7.29 million
•2015 population: 7.16 million
•10-yr pop. growth rate: 14.40%

Washington state’s population grew by 1.8% in 2016, more than twice the 0.7% national population growth rate. Washington has sustained relatively fast population growth over the past decade. The state’s population increased by 14.4% from 2006 to 2016, the eighth fastest pace of any state. The state’s strong population growth over the past decade was accompanied by a substantial increase in GDP. From the second quarter of 2006 to the second quarter of 2016, Washington’s GDP grew at an average rate of 2.2% a year — the fourth fastest pace of any state. Washington’s information sector — which includes industry giants Microsoft, Amazon, and Expedia — grew faster than in any other state other than Pennsylvania over that period.

4. Florida
•1-yr pop. growth rate: 1.82%
•Current population: 20.61 million
•2015 population: 20.24 million
•10-yr pop. growth rate: 13.46%

In 2014, Florida overtook New York as the third most populous state in the country. Florida has continued to grow at a near nation-leading pace. The state’s population grew by 1.8% in 2016, far more than the 0.7% national population growth rate. Like many of the fastest-growing states, Florida’s rapid population growth was largely due to migration. About 9 in every 10 new Floridians either moved to the state from elsewhere in the United States or from another country — one of the largest such shares nationwide — while the rest of the state’s population increase was due to natural growth.

3. Idaho
•1-yr pop. growth rate: 1.83%
•Current population: 1.68 million
•2015 population: 1.65 million
•10-yr pop. growth rate: 14.60%

The population of Idaho increased by 1.8% in 2016, the third fastest pace of any state. Idaho has a relatively high birth rate, and natural growth — births minus deaths — accounted for about one-third of all new Idahoans in 2016. The remaining population growth was due to the large influx of residents from other parts of the country. A net total of 17,143 Americans relocated to Idaho in 2016, far more than in most states. The state’s population growth coincided with a substantial decline in unemployment. Idaho’s unemployment rate fell from 4.2% in 2015 to just 3.8% in 2016, today one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country.

2. Nevada
•1-yr pop. growth rate: 1.95%
•Current population: 2.94 million
•2015 population: 2.88 million
•10-yr pop. growth rate: 16.55%

The population of Nevada increased by 2.0% in 2016, the second fastest pace of any state. Nevada has sustained strong population growth over the past decade, growing by 16.5% from 2006 to 2016 — nearly twice the 8.3% national growth rate. Despite strong population growth, Nevada’s overall economic output declined over that time. The state’s arts, entertainment, and recreation and accommodation and food sectors — which comprise a larger share of Nevada’s GDP than in any other state — shrunk 13.0% from the second quarter of 2006 to the second quarter of 2016, more than in any other state nationwide. Nevada’s GDP contracted by 9.0% overall during that time, the largest decline in the country. Industries that benefit from population growth, however, such as educational services and health care, grew at a faster pace than in a majority of states.

1. Utah
•1-yr pop. growth rate: 2.03%
•Current population: 3.05 million
•2015 population: 2.99 million
•10-yr pop. growth rate: 20.82%

The population of Utah grew by 2.0% in 2016, nearly three times the 0.7% national population growth rate and the fastest pace of any state. Unlike most fast-growing states, the majority of Utah’s population increase was due to natural growth. Utah has the largest average family size in the country, and there were 1,854 births per 100,000 people in Utah in 2016 — far more than the national rate of 1,286 births per 100,000 Americans. Utah also has the lowest death rate in the country. While Utah’s high birth-to-death ratio accounted for most of the state’s population growth, Utah’s population also grew more from inbound migration than many other states. The state’s population increased by 0.8% due to net migration in 2016, more than double the 0.3% national figure and the ninth highest rate of any state.


The fastest shrinking states

4. Connecticut
•1-yr pop. growth rate: -0.23%
•Current population: 3.58 million
•2015 population: 3.58 million
•10-yr pop. growth rate: 1.68%

The population of Connecticut shrank by 0.2% in 2016, the fourth largest decline of any state. Connecticut’s population has declined substantially in recent years, and the state has lost a net total of approximately 20,000 residents since 2013. Many of those leaving Connecticut are young, college-educated professionals. Since 2010, the median age in Connecticut has risen from 40.0 years to 40.9 years.

The population loss has likely hurt the state’s economic potential. While the U.S. GDP grew by 12.1% from the second quarter of 2006 to the second quarter of 2016, Connecticut’s GDP fell by 3.7%, the largest contraction of any state over that time other than Nevada.

Like where?

Suburbs of Nashville, Charlotte, some places in NH, suburbs of Atlanta.

If I didn't care about being near my parents, I'd move to Fort Mill SC. A suburb of Charlotte NC. Very low taxes, insanely good schools, good quality of life. Much cheaper than CT.

I know 3 upper middle-class families that moved from CT to Sunnappee, NH. They are saving a fortune, they say they sacrificed nothing in terms of quality of life, and will never come back.

And I did the math that helped my brother move his family and his business from Litchfield CT to the suburbs of Nashville. Everything is new down there, everything is awesome. He is saving more than $1,000 a month in taxes. Over a couple of decades, it's a fortune. He would say that CT offers not a single thing to justify that extra $1,000 a month. Zip.

There are lots of places that are a better bang for the buck. There just aren't any in the blue New England states that I know of.

Not coincidentally, the places I mentioned are on Amazon's list of finalists for the new HQ. CT was bounced in the first round. Yet the elite liberals here claim you get what you pay for, that CT is awesome while the south is nothing but fried twinkies and trailer parks. In the cities I mentioned, they cannot build $450,000 houses fast enough. Most of the people buying those houses are tax refugees from New England. These people want all the services they are used to...they just don't want to overpay for them. And they found out, they don't have to.

The fastest shrinking states[/B]

4. Connecticut
•1-yr pop. growth rate: -0.23%
•Current population: 3.58 million
•2015 population: 3.58 million
•10-yr pop. growth rate: 1.68%

The population of Connecticut shrank by 0.2% in 2016, the fourth largest decline of any state. Connecticut’s population has declined substantially in recent years, and the state has lost a net total of approximately 20,000 residents since 2013. Many of those leaving Connecticut are young, college-educated professionals. Since 2010, the median age in Connecticut has risen from 40.0 years to 40.9 years.

The population loss has likely hurt the state’s economic potential. While the U.S. GDP grew by 12.1% from the second quarter of 2006 to the second quarter of 2016, Connecticut’s GDP fell by 3.7%, the largest contraction of any state over that time other than Nevada.

CT is in the death spiral. Our population is shrinking as people don't want to pay current taxes. But current taxes aren't anywhere near enough to pay our debt (unfunded debt is now estimated at $35,000 for every human being in the state). So the state will raise taxes. Which will incentivize more people to leave, which will reduce our tax base. Which will force the state to raise taxes on the masochists still here, which will incentivize more to flee, which...

It's a self-perpetuating cycle of decreasing revenue and increasing expenses. They call that the death spiral. in the private sector Very difficult to escape from.

CT has so much going for it. To be one of the few states losing population? That's what "failure" looks like.

Nashville historically votes liberal. Tenn. conserv. If taxes are your main point, Tenn. wins. Educ. poverty rate, opportunity, etc. Conn wins.

Not a lot of insurance jobs in Tenn.(although I did have a insur. client in Brentwood in a prior job).

States and territories
Rank State Poverty Rate(by Household Income) People in Poverty
by Household Income
(in thousands) 2014 Poverty Rates
(includes unrelated children) Supplemental Poverty Measure (2010-2014 average)
(Geographically Adjusted)
- United States 14.8% 45,950 16.0%[1][2]

4 Connecticut
10.8% 376 10.6% 12.5%

41 Tennessee
18.2% 1,165 16.7% 15.5%

tough to read - sorry


Following from US news and world reports on an overall rating on crime, educ. opportunity, etc.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings

US News and World reports - 2014
Conn - #12
Tenn #39


Fattest states:
Conn: 21.4%
Tenn: 31.6%
fattest state Miss. 33.8%

Life expectancy at birth - Conn near top, Tenn near bottom
bachelors degree or higher - Conn near top, Tenn near bottom

The reddest states have long been the poorest. If the gov. didn't transfer lots of $ to those red states life there would be even worse.


another article';

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/31/opinion/campaign-stops/the-path-to-prosperity-is-blue.html

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/

Tenn #8 on depending on Feds
Conn #42 on depending on Feds.

with an aging pop and more people retireing, people are heading out of colder climates and heading to warmer areas.

I always enjoyed Brentwood (sub. of Nashville). Very affluent area. nice people.

Edit: I would note that the places you mention are all liberal in cons. states.

Nashville historically votes liberal. Tenn. conserv. If taxes are your main point, Tenn. wins. Educ. poverty rate, opportunity, etc. Conn wins.

Not a lot of insurance jobs in Tenn.(although I did have a insur. client in Brentwood in a prior job).

States and territories
Rank State Poverty Rate(by Household Income) People in Poverty
by Household Income
(in thousands) 2014 Poverty Rates
(includes unrelated children) Supplemental Poverty Measure (2010-2014 average)
(Geographically Adjusted)
- United States 14.8% 45,950 16.0%[1][2]

4 Connecticut
10.8% 376 10.6% 12.5%

41 Tennessee
18.2% 1,165 16.7% 15.5%

tough to read - sorry


Following from US news and world reports on an overall rating on crime, educ. opportunity, etc.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings

US News and World reports - 2014
Conn - #12
Tenn #39


Fattest states:
Conn: 21.4%
Tenn: 31.6%
fattest state Miss. 33.8%

Life expectancy at birth - Conn near top, Tenn near bottom
bachelors degree or higher - Conn near top, Tenn near bottom

The reddest states have long been the poorest. If the gov. didn't transfer lots of $ to those red states life there would be even worse.


another article';

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/31/opinion/campaign-stops/the-path-to-prosperity-is-blue.html

"Educ. poverty rate, opportunity, etc. Conn wins. "

Nope. The marketplace has spoken , and they say you are wrong.

If you look at states as a whole, sure CT wins, we have Fairfield County and they don't. We win because we have a section of our state that's an easy commute to Manhattan.

There are certain cities in the Carolinas and TN that stink (also there are cities in CT that stink). However, there are cities in the Carolinas and TN that compare very well with nice CT suburbs in terms of quality of live, and far lower taxes. That is where many people are moving.

If those places are as crappy as you said, they would not all be on Amazon's list of finalists. Note that CT was bounced in the first round, but TN and NC are among the finalists.

CT liberal elites like to say the south is nothing but meth heads and trailer parks. Not remotely true. Look at Fort Mill SC. Rock bottom prices, and public schools as good as Avon CT. Those are the places we should be trying to emulate, but liberals won't concede they're doing anything better.

Not a lot of insurance jobs in Tenn.(although I did have a insur. client in Brentwood in a prior job).

[/url]

Tele-commuting. Allowing a lot of people to flee CT.

There are tons of math-related jobs in Charlotte, sometimes referred to as the banking capital of the country.

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/

Tenn #8 on depending on Feds
Conn #42 on depending on Feds.

with an aging pop and more people retireing, people are heading out of colder climates and heading to warmer areas.

I always enjoyed Brentwood (sub. of Nashville). Very affluent area. nice people.

Edit: I would note that the places you mention are all liberal in cons. states.

"with an aging pop and more people retireing, people are heading out of colder climates and heading to warmer areas."

If climate was the big driver, why isn't Massachusetts losing population like CT is?

Climate is a part of it, of course. So is cost of living. And what people feel they get for what they pay.

Here in CT, our taxes are now on par with Boston and NYC, but we can't offer what they offer. We can offer what Charlotte and Nashville offer, but way more expensive.

We are a base model Honda Civic, with the price tag of a Lexus. That's a tough sell. If people are willing to pay through the nose, many feel they get more for their dollar in Boston or Manhattan. If people want a small-city feel like we have, there are far cheaper options. CT no longer has any value proposition. None whatsoever.

"I always enjoyed Brentwood (sub. of Nashville). Very affluent area. nice people"

My brother lives in the beautiful Nashville suburb of Franklin. Dirt cheap and beautiful.

"I would note that the places you mention are all liberal in cons. states"

People aren't moving to the liberal cities. People are moving to the suburbs in those states.

Me and the wife have been discussing a move down to NC when we retire in a few years. Have been down there a few times visiting my daughter at school and love it.

Went out to the Asheville area last visit and I can see us out there in a few years. I can sell my house up here and get twice the house for half the money.
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Me and the wife have been discussing a move down to NC when we retire in a few years. Have been down there a few times visiting my daughter at school and love it.

Went out to the Asheville area last visit and I can see us out there in a few years. I can sell my house up here and get twice the house for half the money.
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Is she at UNC-Asheville? Beautiful area.

I used to go to the Raleigh/Durham area a few times a year for work. That was a hopping, booming area with the big schools.

I know a little about the Charlotte suburbs, enough to know they are cheap and booming.

Going to the Outer Banks this summer for the first time ever, cannot wait.

I love what I have seen of NC. You get the low taxes and milder weather, without the culture shock of the deep south. There are places in NC where you might never hear a southern accent, because everybody is a tax refugee from New England.

People aren't moving to the liberal cities. People are moving to the suburbs in those states.

the liberal cities are the driving economic force in those areas.
austin is booming Texas as a whole has been hurting. Charlotte is booming North Carolina isn't doing as well as a whole. Nashville is booming, etc. Etc. People are moving there because of those liberal cities. They want to be near them otherwise your brother would have moved a hundred miles outside of Nashville or other similar City
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Tele-commuting. Allowing a lot of people to flee CT.

There are tons of math-related jobs in Charlotte, sometimes referred to as the banking capital of the country.

And Charlotte is liberal
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And Charlotte is liberal
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You sure? The taxes are dirt cheap and they don’t give unions a blank check.
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the liberal cities are the driving economic force in those areas.
austin is booming Texas as a whole has been hurting. Charlotte is booming North Carolina isn't doing as well as a whole. Nashville is booming, etc. Etc. People are moving there because of those liberal cities. They want to be near them otherwise your brother would have moved a hundred miles outside of Nashville or other similar City
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Why are people from CT moving all the way down there to be near liberal cities, when there are plenty of liberal cities here to choose from? Low taxes maybe?
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And Charlotte is liberal
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So is Asheville, in that county Clinton beat Trump by 14 points...as did most cities in NC or by more...I think in CLT she was up by 30.

I guess the next question would be if Trump's base is benefiting from the current economic environment or if it's mostly going to the Dems.

And Charlotte is liberal
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Democrat in the the south, doesn’t always mean liberal. And you say that Nashville and Charlotte are booming, but not the suburbs? Hate to disagree with you. Most people are moving to the suburbs, and many of the nicest suburbs are absolutely white hot.
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So is Asheville, in that county Clinton beat Trump by 14 points...as did most cities in NC or by more...I think in CLT she was up by 30.

I guess the next question would be if Trump's base is benefiting from the current economic environment or if it's mostly going to the Dems.

I keep hearing its only trumps base that's benefiting from his policies. You just make stuff up as you go along now? You fault the gop because 51 is less than 60, now you are concerned that only liberals are benefitting from trumps policies?
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I keep hearing its only trumps base that's benefiting from his policies. You just make stuff up as you go along now? You fault the gop because 51 is less than 60, now you are concerned that only liberals are benefitting from trumps policies?
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The base that elected trump doesn't seem to be benefiting from his current policy.
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The base that elected trump doesn't seem to be benefiting from his current policy.
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Who would that be exactly? Because people who work and have IRAs and pay taxes, are doing insanely well. Stock market up, unemployment down, tax rates down, companies giving bonuses and raises. Who do you suppose his base is? Who isn’t benefitting, exactly? I’m all ears.
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Why are people from CT moving all the way down there to be near liberal cities, when there are plenty of liberal cities here to choose from? Low taxes maybe?
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A number of reasons including low taxes. But they sure as hell aren't moving to the hills of North Carolina or Tennessee for example that are not near a liberal City.
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Democrat in the the south, doesn’t always mean liberal. And you say that Nashville and Charlotte are booming, but not the suburbs? Hate to disagree with you. Most people are moving to the suburbs, and many of the nicest suburbs are absolutely white hot.
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I agree liberal-conservative certainly doesn't mean the same down south as it as up north. But again when someone from Connecticut decides to move to Tennessee they look at Nashville and then the surrounding area. They don't look for a area that is not near Nashville.
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A number of reasons including low taxes. But they sure as hell aren't moving to the hills of North Carolina or Tennessee for example that are not near a liberal City.
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Correct they aren’t moving to hillbilly country. my Point is this..there are cities that offer all the attractive things that CT offers, at far less cost. Not all southern cities offer a comparable quality of life but some do. Those places are beating us.
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I agree liberal-conservative certainly doesn't mean the same down south as it as up north. But again when someone from Connecticut decides to move to Tennessee they look at Nashville and then the surrounding area. They don't look for a area that is not near Nashville.
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For the same reason that most people in CT don’t live in the boonies. Many people like to be near a city for restaurants, music, sports, healthcare, etc. I don’t think it’s the politics of Nashville and Charlotte that attracts people. It’s the fact that it’s a city. Most people
Like suburbs not remote rural areas
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Is she at UNC-Asheville? Beautiful area.

I used to go to the Raleigh/Durham area a few times a year for work. That was a hopping, booming area with the big schools.

I know a little about the Charlotte suburbs, enough to know they are cheap and booming.

Going to the Outer Banks this summer for the first time ever, cannot wait.

I love what I have seen of NC. You get the low taxes and milder weather, without the culture shock of the deep south. There are places in NC where you might never hear a southern accent, because everybody is a tax refugee from New England.

She's in her 3rd year at Wake Forest, we went out there for Parents weekend and tacked on a few extra days to visit friends out in Asheville that just moved down there outta MA. Also hooked up with another friend down in Charlotte....who also moved outta MA a few years ago.

Asheville had that whole Portland ME vibe to it. they have a great Music scene, great restaurants, and of course great beer.

Really liked Charlotte as well, pretty clean city that offers sports and great BBQ. :-) Wouldn't want to live there because I'm not a fan of city living, but is a nice option to have relatively close by.

I'm sure, just like any state, they have their $hithole areas (yeah, I used THAT word :hihi:) but for the whole of what we saw we liked it.

A number of reasons including low taxes. But they sure as hell aren't moving to the hills of North Carolina or Tennessee for example that are not near a liberal City.
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As far as NC goes the "Hills" of North Carolina is where Ashville is located and that area is on the upswing. Sierra Nevada just opened up a brand new State of the art Green brewery in Mills River just 10 minutes outside Ashville that created 100's of jobs. Oskar Blues just opened up a new east coast brewery in Brevard, which is about 30 minutes outside Ashville.

Its becoming an area for a lot of small business growth as well. it is definitely not hillbilly area by any stretch, the growth is actually being fueled more by millennials than anything else, I'll just have to look past the Man-bun

Ashville is very liberal and expensive by NC standards, cheap by New England standards.

Ashville is very liberal and expensive by NC standards, cheap by New England standards.

I couldn't care less, I care about getting more bang for my buck.

I live in friggin Massachusetts for gods sake, you think I'm worried about mingling with liberals.
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I couldn't care less, I care about getting more bang for my buck.

I live in friggin Massachusetts for gods sake, you think I'm worried about mingling with liberals.
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No, I don't think you care at all. Prob. never enters your mind. Can't say the same about Jim. I think it consumes him.

Ashville is very liberal and expensive by NC standards, cheap by New England standards.

Which is why they are clobbering New England.

[QUOTE=Jim in CT;1135776
If those places are as crappy as you said, they would not all be on Amazon's list of finalists. Note that CT was bounced in the first round, but TN and NC are among the finalists.

[/QUOTE]

And all of the 20 cities (except I think Indiapolis) are liberal. So which of the following 20 cities do you think are conservative? I've entered my guesses.

Austin, Tex. – liberal
Boston– liberal
Chicago– liberal
Columbus, Ohio – Voted 80% for Obama
Dallas – 2nd most liberal city in Texas after Austin
Denver– liberal
Indianapolis - conservative
Los Angeles– liberal
Miami – leans liberal
Montgomery County, Md. – liberal
Nashville– liberal
Newark– liberal
New York– liberal
Northern Virginia– liberal
Philadelphia– liberal
Pittsburgh– liberal
Raleigh, N.C. – liberal
Toronto– liberal
Washington– liberal

Which is why they are clobbering New England.

Austin is Liberal.

She's in her 3rd year at Wake Forest, we went out there for Parents weekend and tacked on a few extra days to visit friends out in Asheville that just moved down there outta MA. Also hooked up with another friend down in Charlotte....who also moved outta MA a few years ago.

Asheville had that whole Portland ME vibe to it. they have a great Music scene, great restaurants, and of course great beer.

Really liked Charlotte as well, pretty clean city that offers sports and great BBQ. :-) Wouldn't want to live there because I'm not a fan of city living, but is a nice option to have relatively close by.

I'm sure, just like any state, they have their $hithole areas (yeah, I used THAT word :hihi:) but for the whole of what we saw we liked it.

Wake Forest is an awesome school. Congratulations, you all did a lot of things right, for her to end up there.

Sure, the Carolinas have their awful areas, as do CT and Mass. But unlike CT and Mass, they also have great areas that are much cheaper than anything you can find in CT or Mass. CT doesn't have a singe city that's (1) a great place to live, and (2) has low taxes and a low cost of living.

That's the advantage that the Carolinas offer, and they are taking advantage of it, to the detriment of CT. Our tax revenue is decreasing because people are leaving. But our expenses are increasing at the same time. Worst combination.

This summer, my 11 year-old has a big karate tournament in Greensboro. We'll spend 2 days there, then 2 days in the Charlotte suburbs to see a friend who fled CT for NC, then to the Outer Banks for a week.

TDF, you know what I've heard about Charlotte? On the outskirts of the city are areas that look and feel like suburbs, but are technically still part of the city. I don't know why more cities don't do that, I would imagine a lot of people would like to live on a suburban type street but be very close to the downtown.

I'm a huge fan of BBQ, looking forward to trying some in NC this summer.

And all of the 20 cities (except I think Indiapolis) are liberal. So which of the following 20 cities do you think are conservative? I've entered my guesses.

Austin, Tex. – liberal
Boston– liberal
Chicago– liberal
Columbus, Ohio – Voted 80% for Obama
Dallas – 2nd most liberal city in Texas after Austin
Denver– liberal
Indianapolis - conservative
Los Angeles– liberal
Miami – leans liberal
Montgomery County, Md. – liberal
Nashville– liberal
Newark– liberal
New York– liberal
Northern Virginia– liberal
Philadelphia– liberal
Pittsburgh– liberal
Raleigh, N.C. – liberal
Toronto– liberal
Washington– liberal

How many cities that are mid-size or larger, aren't left of center?

People from CT are not moving to the Nashville suburbs because they like the liberal politics of the city of Nashville. Nor are people from CT moving to the Charlotte suburbs because they like the liberal politics of the city of Charlotte. They are moving to the Nashville /Charlotte suburbs because it's a much better bargain than the CT suburbs. They want to be near the cities of Nashville/Charlotte, because regardless of politics, many people like to be near a city for the food, music, sports, etc...

You are bending over backwards in a desperate attempt to convince yourself that there is zero connection between Connecticut's brand of liberalism, and the fact that people are moving to the Carolinas and TN.

If people in CT want to live near a smallish city that's liberal, they would stay right where they are, Hartford is plenty liberal.

Wake Forest is an awesome school. Congratulations, you all did a lot of things right, for her to end up there.

Yeah, we stayed out of her way :hihi:

TDF, you know what I've heard about Charlotte? On the outskirts of the city are areas that look and feel like suburbs, but are technically still part of the city. I don't know why more cities don't do that, I would imagine a lot of people would like to live on a suburban type street but be very close to the downtown.

Yep, when my buddy moved down there about 5 years ago he moved into a neighborhood in Charlotte that had that feel. he paid $35k cash for a small 2 BR house w/ a small backyard. just perfect for him.

I'm a huge fan of BBQ, looking forward to trying some in NC this summer.

Good place for BBQ in Greensboro, we ate there last visit. very reasonably priced too.

http://www.country-bbq.com/

But you have constantly said here that the liberal cities suck or other vile terms. Now you're changing your arguement. It is tough to discuss something with someone who constantly changes their arguement.

I'm not the one bending over backwards - you are. You said 'liberal cities" earlier and discussed Charlotte (which is liberal). You brought up Amazon and used NC and TN as examples. But Amazon didn't say "NC" and "TN" - they specifically said the liberal cities in those states. They aren't looking to move to somewhere out in the country - they want the liberal cities. You defeated your own arguement.

But you have constantly said here that the liberal cities suck or other vile terms. Now you're changing your arguement. It is tough to discuss something with someone who constantly changes their arguement.

I'm not the one bending over backwards - you are. You said 'liberal cities" earlier and discussed Charlotte (which is liberal). You brought up Amazon and used NC and TN as examples. But Amazon didn't say "NC" and "TN" - they specifically said the liberal cities in those states. They aren't looking to move to somewhere out in the country - they want the liberal cities. You defeated your own arguement.

"But you have constantly said here that the liberal cities suck or other vile terms"

Liberalism has been an economic disaster for CT, unless you are in a public labor union, or unless you are wealthy. You may disagree. But I can make a very compelling case.

People are fleeing CT, and moving to right-leaning states because of the lower cost of living. You think that because there are left-leaning cities near where people are moving (though not liberal by CT standards), that means that liberalism isn't to blame for people leaving CT, nor is conservatism the reason that people are moving south.

Paul, I'll keep it simple. People are leaving CT because it's too expensive, and moving to places that are every bit as nice as CT, but much cheaper. That's not me bending over backwards, that's stating the obvious.

I say that CT's liberalism is to blame for the high cost here, and that southern conservatism gets credit for their ability to offer a similar quality of life at lower cost.

Jim, I have watched you clobber CT(for good reason) for years but you still live there. If there are so many more desirable cities and states in the country then why are you still in CT? What is preventing you from giving you and your family a better life? I remember when RIJimmy moved to Texas years ago from MA for that reason alone,I hope he is happy.
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Jim, I have watched you clobber CT(for good reason) for years but you still live there. If there are so many more desirable cities and states in the country then why are you still in CT? What is preventing you from giving you and your family a better life? I remember when RIJimmy moved to Texas years ago from MA for that reason alone,I hope he is happy.
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A fair question which I get a lot. My parents are 80 and not doing great physically, and live a mile away from me and my family. They see my kids at least 4-5 times a week, it's very healthy and beneficial for my kids and my parents. My wife is a stay-at-home mom, and spends a fair amount of time running errands with/for my parents. They'd be completely screwed if my family and I left. But I know exactly what it's costing me. I'll retire several years later than I would if I lived near Charlotte, which would by our choice. My retirement will be years shorter.

My guess is that they would follow you. Good luck
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My guess is that they would follow you. Good luck
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If that were true we'd be there. I have 3 other brothers in CT, with 5 more grandchildren for them, they will never leave CT.

Every once in awhile I try to convince us all to leave. Never works.

I figure CT is going to be unable to pay its bills within 10 years, they will go through some kind of insolvency (no mechanism today for states to do it, from what I understand, maybe they'll create it for CT), and maybe come out better on the other side.

In 2017, our state almost imploded because our budget had no money for a $1 billion payment to pensions. In a few years, the promised payments are $3 billion a year. Today we can't afford $1 billion, and our population (and therefore tax revenue) is shrinking, and in a few years we're supposed to pay $3 billion a year, for many years in a row. Ain't gonna happen.

Our unfunded debt is now estimated at $100 billion. There are 3 million citizens (and dropping) which works out to $33,333 for every one of us, on top of current taxes. That is what "failure" looks like.

And if you decide to join your brother:




By Lucas Peterson
Jan. 24, 2018

“Folsom Prison Blues,” the 1955 Johnny Cash classic, isn’t exactly a deep cut — anyone with even a passing familiarity with country music has heard it. So when the Don Kelley Band tore into the opening riff at the beginning of their set at Robert’s Western World — one of many honky-tonks on a brightly lit neon strip of Broadway in downtown Nashville — I nodded my head and tapped my feet along with the other hundred or so people in the joint. It was the musical equivalent of comfort food — nothing too surprising or challenging. I wasn’t quite ready for what happened next.

Luke McQueary, a skinny 17-year-old in a plaid Western-style shirt, stepped to the front of the stage and, instead of delivering the workmanlike guitar break I was expecting, set the stage aflame with a blistering solo I would have expected from someone twice his age and experience. It was no fluke — the virtuosity continued during the following song, performed with an earnest, almost Hendrix-like showmanship. I half expected someone to come out from the wings, wrap a robe around him, and help him off the stage, à la James Brown.

I was surprised, but I shouldn’t have been. A place nicknamed “Music City” has a reputation to uphold, and Nashville was more than ready to exceed my expectations. A mecca for talented musicians, Tennessee not only has more high-quality live music than you could ever hope to enjoy, but top-notch dining — both traditional Southern cooking and contemporary twists on old standards. It’s a great location for those on a budget, too — I scarcely noticed the damage to my wallet after a four-night trip there in November.

That area of Broadway is a little like the Las Vegas Strip or Bourbon Street: crowded and touristy, but fun in small doses. I visited there with my friend Halena Kays, with whom I crashed in nearby Murfreesboro, a suburb southeast of the city. We ended up at Robert’s Western World accidentally, as our plans to have dinner at nearby Merchants Restaurant, on the corner of Broadway and Fourth Avenue South, had hit a snag — the place was booked solid. No matter: We grabbed a $4 fried bologna sandwich (imagine a BLT — now imagine it twice as salty) and a couple of $4.25 Miller Lites at the honky-tonk while we listened to the aforementioned band.

Cramped and smoky, Santa's Pub is a favorite Nashville dive bar, with cold, cheap beer and live music.CreditJoe Buglewicz for The New York Times

I soon received a text that a table had opened up and we walked over to Merchant’s. The place effectively operates as two restaurants, a pricier steak and seafood restaurant on the second floor, and a less expensive, modern southern bistro on the ground floor. We opted for the latter and grabbed a booth in the bright, spacious dining room. The fried green tomatoes ($11) were spot-on, and the Nashville Caesar salad with cornbread croutons ($12), and a pulled pork sandwich ($13) were satisfying. One nice thing: When they saw we were sharing everything, they were happy to split the dishes into separate portions.

That strip of Broadway is just a stone’s throw from Ryman Auditorium, an indelible piece of Nashville history that belongs on every to-do list, especially if the Grand Ole Opry happens to be in residence. The Opry, an artistic home to country musicians since it began in 1925, takes place primarily at Opryland, about 25 minutes northeast of downtown. But if you can, see the show at the Ryman, home to the show from 1943-1974, which sometimes still hosts the Opry. The building itself is a relic — opened in 1892 as the Union Gospel Tabernacle, it earned the moniker “Mother Church of Country Music.” Near the back steps of its hallowed halls, Halena and I passed a young street performer with an amazing voice crooning a song I didn’t recognize. In Nashville, even the buskers have exceptional talent.

Tickets aren’t terribly cheap — the premium seats run close to $100 — but there’s a slight workaround. I picked up the cheapest tickets I could find: Two obstructed view seats for $48 apiece. (I also checked StubHub and other second-hand ticket sites; they weren’t helpful.) I was expecting to sit smack in front of a column — I wasn’t. The seats, on the main floor, right in the middle of the auditorium, were perfect. And while there was a thin pole in my line of sight, it didn’t bother me at all.

Onto the show — the Opry was one of the most pleasurable music performances I’ve attended in recent memory. After grabbing a $9 draft beer, we found our seats to the din of audience chatter and the buttery baritone of the evening’s announcer and M.C., Eddie Stubbs. The Opry functions simultaneously as a live radio show, broadcast on 650 AM WSM. If you’re familiar with public radio’s “Live from Here” (the show formerly known as “A Prairie Home Companion”), it functions in a similar way. Different acts come on and play just two or three songs — while that’s happening, the next act is hanging out in the wings, which gives the show a casual, collegial quality.


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Hot chicken with fried okra and french fries at Pepperfire.CreditJoe Buglewicz for The New York Times

An announcer’s podium is set up stage right, along with different producers and assistants working on their laptops — bands tune their instruments, guests chatter and banter with Mr. Stubbs, who also functions as an impeccable straight man, and the audience groans and chuckles while cheesy ad copy is read during the breaks. It’s a ton of fun. And then, of course, there’s the music.

“Connie Smith, ladies and gentlemen, the Rolls-Royce of country singers,” announced Mr. Stubbs, who then motioned for us to applaud. Traditional crooners like Ms. Smith were in the house, as was fresh-faced young man named William Michael Morgan, who played his debut single “I Met a Girl” (“He ain’t been off the teat long,” quipped Mike Snider, one of the other musicians).

Having discovered my inner country music fan, I stopped by the Country Music Hall of Fame ($25.95, but only $14 after 4 p.m; the museum closes at 5 p.m.) to continue my education. It’s easy to get lost in the overwhelming amount of history and information — but make sure you don’t miss, among other relics, Carl Perkins’s blue suede shoes (yes, those blue suede shoes), Elvis’s gold Cadillac (complete with refrigerator and swivel-mounted color TV) and some of Chet Atkins’s old guitars, including his first, a Sears Silverstone.

But there’s no substitution for live music. I made my way to the Bluebird Cafe, a popular, intimate venue that features local and established acts. Tickets are, well, extremely difficult to come by (it’s been showcased on the television show “Nashville”). They’re released weekly by the venue and space is tight, which means you have to be both lightning quick and lucky to nab a seat. If you’re in, you’re golden — tickets typically run in the $20 to $30 range. Cafe workers supposedly monitor Craigslist and ticket sites to crack down on scalping. If you’re not fortunate enough to snag online tickets (the likely case), you can wait in a queue that approaches the “Hamilton”-esque for one of 10 or so same-day tickets. I showed up at 7:30 one evening and the man at the door stifled a laugh. “Yeah, you’re not gonna make it in,” he said.

Down but not out, I headed over to Bransford Avenue to Santa’s Pub, a bar housed in a trailer that does live music on Sundays. After showing my ID to a man with a huge beard (was that Santa?), I headed inside, the top of my head almost brushing the ceiling of the double-wide. “No Cussin’, No Beer, No Cigarettes” read a sign on the back wall. Well, I counted all three. The place was cramped and smoky, like any respectable dive bar, and the beer was cold and cheap ($2 for a Pabst Blue Ribbon). The band, a five-piece outfit called Santa’s Ice Cold Pickers, was tight — their rendition of Ray Price’s “Crazy Arms” had me humming along.


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For those looking for a complete Southern meal, Arnold’s Country Kitchen offers the classic meat-and-three (main course and three side dishes).CreditJoe Buglewicz for The New York Times

Another highly enjoyable show I attended was at the Basement East, on the other side of the Cumberland River in East Nashville. The venue was decidedly less intimate than Santa’s or Bluebird, but I couldn’t complain about the program — a Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young tribute show, with proceeds benefiting Autism Speaks. For $10 (plus $2 service fee) I was treated to a Murderer’s Row of young, local talent. Highlights included Jesse Lynn Madera performing a lovely cover of “Don’t Let It Bring You Down” and Amber Woodhouse leading the excellent house band in a stirring rendition of “For What It’s Worth.”

While music is unquestionably the star of the Nashville scene, there are exceptional eats to enjoy between shows. Hot chicken, which has seen its star rise over the last decade, is one of the biggest attractions. I loved my crispy-skinned, exhilaratingly spicy leg quarter from Prince’s Hot Chicken ($5) which has no equal, in my opinion. But it also took an hour of waiting in line. It took no time to get my order at Pepperfire, another worthwhile hot chicken joint less than 10 minutes away from Prince’s. There, I dug into a Tender Royale, a spicy, deep-fried cheese sandwich topped with three chicken tenders ($12.49) with a strong, cumin-forward profile.

For those looking for a complete Southern meal, Arnold’s Country Kitchen is the place to find it. The classic meat-and-three (main course and three side dishes) runs just $10.74 for a huge tray full of food. I had a plate of thinly shaved roast beef with mac and cheese, tender greens and powerfully smoky pinto beans. Cafe Roze, a place with slightly healthier fare from New York-transplant Julia Jaksic, does a mean grain bowl called the Roze Bowl ($14) with beet tahini, black lentils and quinoa. And then there’s the happy hour at Chauhan Ale and Masala House, an Indian-Southern food fusion restaurant, where I got an order of lamb keema papadi nachos with a tamarind chutney ($6) that I still think about weeks after the fact.

But Nashville’s power to disarm and delight remains rooted in its music. When I attended the Opry, two guys who go by the handle LoCash strutted onto the stage in what came as the biggest surprise of the night. At first glance, LoCash seemed to epitomize the slick twang of everything I don’t particularly enjoy about modern country music — impeccably crafted facial hair, power chords and tacky clothes. Halena grabbed my arm, and I braced myself for awfulness.

Boy, was I wrong; these guys were fantastic performers. Within minutes, they had me and the rest of the audience eating out their hands — clapping and singing along to a song I’d never heard before. I don’t know if their exceedingly catchy “I Love This Life” will go down in the annals of country music’s great songs. But it was easily the most fun four minutes of the trip, and had me unironically singing the refrain the entire car ride home: I love a Friday night — man, I love this life.

Nashville is awesome - I can relate to this article. Interesting mix of old and new music. Had a blast there.

liberalism has zero to do why people are moving south and west ..

its about low housing costs and jobs namely Auto (non union) and gas and oil and baby boomers retirements moving south
why stay in MA making 15 bucks an hour when you can go to Tennessee make around the same and be able to afford your own place

Jobs in the NE have no longer manufacture based those commpanys screwed their employees in the 70s and 80's 90s and 2000s


Polaroid Corporation filed for federal bankruptcy protection on October 11, 2001

left executives of the company with large bonuses, while stockholders, as well as current and retired employees, were left with nothing.
lets not for get enron or the Subprime mortgage crisis but now we have a de regulation POTUS who will remove the regulation from the same industries . who created the need to impose the regulation in the 1st place???

Americans today are aware that corporate pensions have been virtually eliminated and that the few remaining private, as well as the nation’s public pensions, are in jeopardy. Even if you are among the lucky few that have a pension, you cannot rest assured that it will be there for all the years you’ll need it. Whether you know it or not, someone is busy trying to figure how to screw you out of your pension.

Americans also know the great 401k experiment of the past 30 years has been a disaster. It is now apparent that 401ks will not provide the retirement security promised to workers.

The signs of the coming retirement crisis are all around you. Who’s bagging your groceries: a young high school kid or an older “retiree” who had to go back to work to supplement his income or qualify for health insurance?

Faith in Companys and their big Tax break is unfounded and another nail in the coffin of the middle class

https://www.forbes.com/sites/edwardsiedle/2013/03/20/the-greatest-retirement-crisis-in-american-history/#b411c055b6fb

http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2016/01/08/americans-are-moving-south-west-again

WD - good advice. Before anyone relocates they should definitely look into the state and local pension obligations they have. Many communities have been over generous with tax payer funded public pensions. Taxpayers are now on the hook and taxes will overburden these communities/states.

liberalism has zero to do why people are moving south and west ..

its about low housing costs and jobs namely Auto (non union) and gas and oil and baby boomers retirements moving south
why stay in MA making 15 bucks an hour when you can go to Tennessee make around the same and be able to afford your own place

Pretty much what Jim has said. Are you saying that the taxes required for "liberal" programs are not at all part of the reason for a high cost of living?

Jobs in the NE have no longer manufacture based those commpanys screwed their employees in the 70s and 80's 90s and 2000s

Why on earth would manufacturers not want to be based in the NE? Oh . . . right . . . they want to screw their employees. So that's why people want to move where taxes are lower because they can find jobs there . . . and be employees who will be screwed by companies. Genius.

Polaroid Corporation filed for federal bankruptcy protection on October 11, 2001

left executives of the company with large bonuses, while stockholders, as well as current and retired employees, were left with nothing.

Polaroid was loved by its employees before the bankruptcy because it was one of the more employee friendly companies. It was avoiding a hostile takeover by a Disney co. at the time by buying back its stocks and transferring ownership of them to its employees (which it was considering before the takeover attempt). Polaroid simply could not, or did not know how to, stay relevant with the emergence of digital cameras. It borrowed a lot of money to buy back stocks and create the new partnership with its employees and was getting increasingly in debt because of losing sales and greater costs. Not sure what you would expect from it at this point. Good intentions went bad. Everyone who owned stock in the company, including corporate managers, lost their stock investment. The pensioned retirees had their pensions taken over by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp.

lets not for get enron or the Subprime mortgage crisis but now we have a de regulation POTUS who will remove the regulation from the same industries . who created the need to impose the regulation in the 1st place???

The Enron thing was not legit. It was a total sham, not an example of supposedly how evil our corporations are. The subprime mortgage crisis was a prime example of how government regulation can go bad. Banks backing shaky mortgages was a new policy which was made possible by a government regulation. Banks were far more scrupulous about making loans for mortgages before the invention of the Community Reinvestment Act. Getting rid of bad regulations, especially unconstitutional ones, is a good thing.

Americans today are aware that corporate pensions have been virtually eliminated and that the few remaining private, as well as the nation’s public pensions, are in jeopardy. Even if you are among the lucky few that have a pension, you cannot rest assured that it will be there for all the years you’ll need it. Whether you know it or not, someone is busy trying to figure how to screw you out of your pension.

The pension idea depends on a lot of things in order to be sustainable. It has to be adequately funded. Economic conditions have to remain stable. Payees have to remain viable which requires avoiding a permanent and rising debt. And requires a maintenance of the monetary employee/employer relationship.

Poor management will lead to unsustainability. Competition can disrupt adequate profitability.

Government policies greatly affect overall economic conditions. So pensions and savings and cost of living and doing business are all strongly influenced by taxation and regulation. Government overspending requiring excessive taxing and borrowing lead to reduced incomes and profit and to inflation which also lowers the value of savings and pensions. So excessive taxation used to fund government programs and pay debt, and ever changing and onerous regulations, all affect the viability of companies, including their ability to fund pensions. And it all affects the value of those pensions which decreases as government debt inflates prices. Government mandated bargaining can create an imbalance in company profits which lead to rising costs or loss of profits and so to underfunding pensions.

The ability to provide sustainable pensions for all the retirees in the private sector, who are living longer and longer, under the changing and more onerous government policies, simply became impossible. Large Corporations like the auto companies had as much or more retirees on the payroll than the number of actual working, productive, employees.

The public sector has the same problems. But since it bargains with itself, there is less incentive to stay within budgets. Public sector debt and its underfunded pensions is a huge problem which cannot be blamed on evil corporations.

Americans also know the great 401k experiment of the past 30 years has been a disaster. It is now apparent that 401ks will not provide the retirement security promised to workers.

The signs of the coming retirement crisis are all around you. Who’s bagging your groceries: a young high school kid or an older “retiree” who had to go back to work to supplement his income or qualify for health insurance?

Faith in Companys and their big Tax break is unfounded and another nail in the coffin of the middle class

https://www.forbes.com/sites/edwardsiedle/2013/03/20/the-greatest-retirement-crisis-in-american-history/#b411c055b6fb

http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2016/01/08/americans-are-moving-south-west-again

The nails in the coffin of the middle class could slowly be removed by freeing up the market. Lower taxes and proper deregulation can only help. Without that, the nails are already implanted. And the status quo is a vector in the direction of more nails.

Of course, we can just go full socialism. Then we will all be in the same class (except for the privileged government administrators). I don't think you could call that class the middle. Maybe just something like "the proletariat."

liberalism has zero to do why people are moving south and west ..

You say people want to move to places that have a low cost of living and cheaper housing and better economic prospects. But you deny that has any connection to liberalism or conservatism.

Unless an individual wants to live near Manhattan or Boston so badly that they are willing to pay through the nose, then New England is a ripoff. Except for New Hampshire. But you see no political connection.

Enjoy your denial-fest.

You say people want to move to places that have a low cost of living and cheaper housing and better economic prospects. But you deny that has any connection to liberalism or conservatism.

Unless an individual wants to live near Manhattan or Boston so badly that they are willing to pay through the nose, then New England is a ripoff. Except for New Hampshire. But you see no political connection.

Enjoy your denial-fest.

its called seeing the world with both eyes open

you use the word liberalism as a universal cause to everything

the past 63 years since 1952 40 of those years republicans held the white house

the other 23 years the Dems

whos in denial??? not I

But you deny that has any connection to liberalism or conservatism.



liberalism or conservatism. isn't left behind when you move to another state .. thats in your imagination

What about the states that are experiencing an exodus? Here is that list in order:

New Jersey
New York
Illinois
Connecticut
Ohio
Kansas
Massachusetts
West Virginia
Mississippi
Maryland

these states are all “true blue.” people are leaving these states on the quest for economic prosperity.

not to find political nirvana

its called seeing the world with both eyes open

you use the word liberalism as a universal cause to everything

the past 63 years since 1952 40 of those years republicans held the white house

the other 23 years the Dems

whos in denial??? not I

What does that have to do with the taxes and cost of living in the states?

You say people want to move to places that have a low cost of living and cheaper housing and better economic prospects. But you deny that has any connection to liberalism or conservatism.

Unless an individual wants to live near Manhattan or Boston so badly that they are willing to pay through the nose, then New England is a ripoff. Except for New Hampshire. But you see no political connection.

Enjoy your denial-fest.
Has less to do with politics and more just about macro trends.

Has less to do with politics and more just about macro macaroni trends.

Fixed

Fixed
Is that on the menu?

Is that on the menu?

Simply pick whatever fancy, trendy word you wish to portray what it is "more just about," stick it in your political hat, and call it macaroni.

Zing🎯
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its called seeing the world with both eyes open

you use the word liberalism as a universal cause to everything

the past 63 years since 1952 40 of those years republicans held the white house

the other 23 years the Dems

whos in denial??? not I

"you use the word liberalism as a universal cause to everything"

Not remotely true. I agree with liberals on gay marriage and the death penalty. I'm no thoughtless zombie. But in terms of economics, liberalism has almost a 100% failure rate in this country. I don't say that because I happen to like it. I say it, because it's true.


"the past 63 years since 1952 40 of those years republicans held the white house

the other 23 years the Dems "

Many things wrong with that statement. First, "republican" doesn't always mean "conservative". Hell, Bill Clinton was a Democrats who implemented VERY conservative economic principles, and it worked spectacularly well. also, the legislature is where the action is, they write laws and craft budgets. Not the executive. Not usually, anyway...executive orders are changing that a bit.

"whos in denial??? "

You.

"you use the word liberalism as a universal cause to everything"

Not remotely true. I agree with liberals on gay marriage and the death penalty. I'm no thoughtless zombie. But in terms of economics, liberalism has almost a 100% failure rate in this country. I don't say that because I happen to like it. I say it, because it's true.


"the past 63 years since 1952 40 of those years republicans held the white house

the other 23 years the Dems "

Many things wrong with that statement. First, "republican" doesn't always mean "conservative". Hell, Bill Clinton was a Democrats who implemented VERY conservative economic principles, and it worked spectacularly well. also, the legislature is where the action is, they write laws and craft budgets. Not the executive. Not usually, anyway...executive orders are changing that a bit.

"whos in denial??? "

You.


"republican" doesn't always mean "conservative". Wow thats your defense ... the Rino argument your to funny:btu:

FedEx announced wage increases, employee bonuses and pension funding on Friday, citing the new Republican-backed tax-reform plan.

The company announced that two-thirds of $200 million in increased compensation will go to hourly employees, while the remainder will be put toward performance-based incentive plans for salaried employees.

FedEx also said $1.5 billion will be put toward the company's pension plan and another $1.5 billion would go toward expanding the company's hub in Indianapolis.


"FedEx believes the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act will likely increase [gross domestic product] and investment in the United States," the company said on its website.



Home Depot said on Thursday it would be giving a $1,000 bonus to employees who have worked at Home Depot at least 20 years, according to CNBC.

Starbucks announced new raises for its employees on Wednesday, while JPMorgan Chase and Disney said on Tuesday they would give their employees raises and bonuses as a result of tax reform.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/370871-fedex-announces-wage-increases-bonuses-amid-tax-reform

"republican" doesn't always mean "conservative". Wow thats your defense ... the Rino argument your to funny:btu:

it's not my defense, it's fact. In terms of economic policy, Bill Clinton was conservative.

Truth is, I'm not funny, I am hysterical. But this is still fact.

FedEx announced wage increases, employee bonuses and pension funding on Friday, citing the new Republican-backed tax-reform plan.

The company announced that two-thirds of $200 million in increased compensation will go to hourly employees, while the remainder will be put toward performance-based incentive plans for salaried employees.

FedEx also said $1.5 billion will be put toward the company's pension plan and another $1.5 billion would go toward expanding the company's hub in Indianapolis.


"FedEx believes the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act will likely increase [gross domestic product] and investment in the United States," the company said on its website.



Home Depot said on Thursday it would be giving a $1,000 bonus to employees who have worked at Home Depot at least 20 years, according to CNBC.

Starbucks announced new raises for its employees on Wednesday, while JPMorgan Chase and Disney said on Tuesday they would give their employees raises and bonuses as a result of tax reform.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/370871-fedex-announces-wage-increases-bonuses-amid-tax-reform

Oh stop it, everyone knows this is only helping the super rich.

FedEx announced wage increases, employee bonuses and pension funding on Friday, citing the new Republican-backed tax-reform plan.

The company announced that two-thirds of $200 million in increased compensation will go to hourly employees, while the remainder will be put toward performance-based incentive plans for salaried employees.

FedEx also said $1.5 billion will be put toward the company's pension plan and another $1.5 billion would go toward expanding the company's hub in Indianapolis.


"FedEx believes the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act will likely increase [gross domestic product] and investment in the United States," the company said on its website.



Home Depot said on Thursday it would be giving a $1,000 bonus to employees who have worked at Home Depot at least 20 years, according to CNBC.

Starbucks announced new raises for its employees on Wednesday, while JPMorgan Chase and Disney said on Tuesday they would give their employees raises and bonuses as a result of tax reform.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/370871-fedex-announces-wage-increases-bonuses-amid-tax-reform

Its a 1 time dog and pony show .. a pr stunt to look as if they are giving back , and not funneling all the money back to share holder's and to praise dear leader .... was in Walmart today only 4 check out lines open ... looks like they toldeveryone they increased the pay but failed to say they cut the hours

Its a 1 time dog and pony show .. a pr stunt to look as if they are giving back , and not funneling all the money back to share holder's and to praise dear leader .... was in Walmart today only 4 check out lines open ... looks like they toldeveryone they increased the pay but failed to say they cut the hours

"Its a 1 time dog and pony show "

Apple announced 20,000 new jobs, and a tax payment of $38 billion. Comcast (who own MSNBC) announced $50 billion in infrastructure spending. dog and pony show?

Obama didn't do anything to do more for these folks in 8 years.

"and not funneling all the money back to share holder's" Also good for the economy.

"and to praise dear leader "

Again, Comcast, who signs Rachael Maddow's paycheck, is spending $50 billion to make Trump look good. This is what you are saying?

Reuters JANUARY 22, 2018 / 9:17 AM / 5 DAYS AGO

IMF raises global growth forecast, sees Trump tax boost

Noah Barkin, Dmitry Zhdannikov

DAVOS, Switzerland (Reuters) - The International Monetary Fund on Monday revised up its forecast for world economic growth in 2018 and 2019, saying sweeping U.S. tax cuts were likely to boost investment in the world’s largest economy and help its main trading partners.

Reuters JANUARY 22, 2018 / 9:17 AM / 5 DAYS AGO

IMF raises global growth forecast, sees Trump tax boost

Noah Barkin, Dmitry Zhdannikov

DAVOS, Switzerland (Reuters) - The International Monetary Fund on Monday revised up its forecast for world economic growth in 2018 and 2019, saying sweeping U.S. tax cuts were likely to boost investment in the world’s largest economy and help its main trading partners.
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They’re just saying that to prop up Trump.

What does that mean exactly. “World economic growth”. If we look at economic growth, we usually divide it in 2. The first is “Wall Street”. The 2nd is “Main st”. My guess is that this growth will favor Wall Street much more than Main st.
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"Its a 1 time dog and pony show "

Apple announced 20,000 new jobs, and a tax payment of $38 billion. Comcast (who own MSNBC) announced $50 billion in infrastructure spending. dog and pony show?

Obama didn't do anything to do more for these folks in 8 years.

"and not funneling all the money back to share holder's" Also good for the economy.

"and to praise dear leader "

Again, Comcast, who signs Rachael Maddow's paycheck, is spending $50 billion to make Trump look good. This is what you are saying?


yes ... what a better way to pay a political bribe to give out money that was given to you at zero cost...

we will see how generous Comcast Verzion and the like are when is contract negotiations time .. with their new found wealth I am waiting till February to see my pay stub

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They’re just saying that to prop up Trump.
Even the most liberal analysis shows short-term growth. The question will be how inflation, rising interest rates, rising health care costs, increased federal deficits and disproportionate benefits of the tax cuts impact the economy long-term. Here most analysis show weak if any gains. As Nebe articulated, Main Street is in a delicate position to absorb these hits.

Hell, I need to refi my house and the rates have already climbed enough just the past few months (because of the tax plan) to pretty much negate any potential tax savings I may get.

Additionally, do you know how much positive corporate investment and job growth happened since the recession which if announced today you'd be wetting your pants over?

The ability to claim deductions and lower your taxable income is the greatest way to stimulate the economy. Higher taxes would in theory push companies to seek out ways to find deductions through purchases, expansion, research, etc. a tax cut does the opposite and it’s an awful way to encourage a company to spend.
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The ability to claim deductions and lower your taxable income is the greatest way to stimulate the economy. Higher taxes would in theory push companies to seek out ways to find deductions through purchases, expansion, research, etc. a tax cut does the opposite and it’s an awful way to encourage a company to spend.
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Nebe, just TRUST ME it will trickle down.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/21/news/economy/davos-oxfam-inequality-wealth/index.html

Even the most liberal analysis shows short-term growth. The question will be how inflation, rising interest rates, rising health care costs, increased federal deficits and disproportionate benefits of the tax cuts impact the economy long-term. Here most analysis show weak if any gains. As Nebe articulated, Main Street is in a delicate position to absorb these hits.

Hell, I need to refi my house and the rates have already climbed enough just the past few months (because of the tax plan) to pretty much negate any potential tax savings I may get.

Additionally, do you know how much positive corporate investment and job growth happened since the recession which if announced today you'd be wetting your pants over?

So the rising interest rates arevtrumos fault, but the soaring stock market and plummeting unemployment are thanks to obama? Do I have that about right? Interest rates have nowhere to go but up.
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The ability to claim deductions and lower your taxable income is the greatest way to stimulate the economy. Higher taxes would in theory push companies to seek out ways to find deductions through purchases, expansion, research, etc. a tax cut does the opposite and it’s an awful way to encourage a company to spend.
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You’re saying that the best way to stimulate the economy is to increase tax rates, and then encourage people to find ways to avoid taxes. That’s somehow better than just lowering taxes to begin with? Interesting.
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Even the most liberal analysis shows short-term growth. The question will be how inflation, rising interest rates, rising health care costs, increased federal deficits and disproportionate benefits of the tax cuts impact the economy long-term. Here most analysis show weak if any gains. As Nebe articulated, Main Street is in a delicate position to absorb these hits.

Hell, I need to refi my house and the rates have already climbed enough just the past few months (because of the tax plan) to pretty much negate any potential tax savings I may get.

Additionally, do you know how much positive corporate investment and job growth happened since the recession which if announced today you'd be wetting your pants over?

I did wet my pants at what my IRA did during the obama years, and I always give him some credit for that. Unlike you, I can give honest praise and criticism on both sides.
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The White House has seized on the company announcements as proof the law offers other benefits to workers.




"Why didn't they just tell their workers privately?" says Laurence Kotlikoff, an economics professor at Boston University, who described some of the announcements as "implicit back-scratching" for the White House.


"They're making a big deal of this to serve some other purpose, maybe getting the country to like their product or getting the government to lay off a bit."

But it is also clear that self-promotion and political calculus are driving some of the announcements.

In the broader context, the benefits for workers are "trivial"

Yes they are stroking Trumps ego to avoid any blow back if they didnt bend the knee


http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42812453

The White House has seized on the company announcements as proof the law offers other benefits to workers.




"Why didn't they just tell their workers privately?" says Laurence Kotlikoff, an economics professor at Boston University, who described some of the announcements as "implicit back-scratching" for the White House.


"They're making a big deal of this to serve some other purpose, maybe getting the country to like their product or getting the government to lay off a bit."

But it is also clear that self-promotion and political calculus are driving some of the announcements.

In the broader context, the benefits for workers are "trivial"

Yes they are stroking Trumps ego to avoid any blow back if they didnt bend the knee


http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42812453

Of course there’s a political component to the announcements. Obama didn’t announce his major accomplishments? He kept it all a secret?

Do you people hear yourselves? You don’t see the obvious bias?
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Obama didn’t announce his major accomplishments? He kept it all a secret?

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on big noticeable change is that whenever Obamaland announced some promising economic or employment numbers...they'd always get revised downward shortly thereafter.....haven't noticed that lately


Nov 29, 2017 - Bloomberg View Columnist Dan Moss discusses U.S. economic growth in the third quarter. The U.S. economy’s growth rate last quarter was revised upward to the fastest in three years on stronger investment from businesses...
Mar 30, 2017 - Growth in consumer spending, which accounts for more than two-thirds of U.S. economic activity, was revised up to a 3.5 percent rate in the fourth quarter.
August 30,2017 WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — The U.S. economic rebound in the second quarter was stronger than initially reported....

You’re saying that the best way to stimulate the economy is to increase tax rates, and then encourage people to find ways to avoid taxes. That’s somehow better than just lowering taxes to begin with? Interesting.
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You obviously don’t own a business. Talk to someone who does and they will say ol Nebe is right
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The ability to claim deductions and lower your taxable income is the greatest way to stimulate the economy. Higher taxes would in theory push companies to seek out ways to find deductions through purchases, expansion, research, etc. a tax cut does the opposite and it’s an awful way to encourage a company to spend.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

this is insanity

Of course there’s a political component to the announcements. Obama didn’t announce his major accomplishments? He kept it all a secret?

Do you people hear yourselves? You don’t see the obvious bias?
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Not talking about what Trump says .... but the obvious stroking by those companys who he has give a windfall no bias just facts

Not talking about what Trump says .... but the obvious stroking by those companys who he has give a windfall no bias just facts

is anything that you claim not "fact"?:)

What does that mean exactly. “World economic growth”.

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we'll get wdmso to look up the word "world" for you....:read::hihi:

You obviously don’t own a business. Talk to someone who does and they will say ol Nebe is right
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Why is it better to hire an accountant and a tax lawyer to get a lower tax rate, than it is for the feds to have that lower rate to begin with? Please explain.
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.... was in Walmart today only 4 check out lines open ... looks like they toldeveryone they increased the pay but failed to say they cut the hours

Show of hands, who here has ever, excluding Christmas, seen more than 4 checkout lines open at Walmart at a time?

That's business as usual there.
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Show of hands, who here has ever, excluding Christmas, seen more than 4 checkout lines open at Walmart at a time?

That's business as usual there.
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saw the same at Stop & Shop.....weird...I think you'll see it a lot more with self check out

You obviously don’t own a business. Talk to someone who does and they will say ol Nebe is right
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You obviously could benefit from a deft accountant.
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this is insanity
You're not following then.
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You're not following then.
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followed it perfectly...it's nonsense....the rest of that "theory" states that high taxes on individuals produce similar results because it "forces" them to work harder than they otherwise would to maintain and plan their life...to that I say GFY(theoretically) ;)

bill maher 2days ago made an observation trump loves to pick fights with blacks . And as if on cue he lashes out at Jay z (a nobody in the scheme of things) another example of what happens if you don't bend the knee

Unemployment is historically low across the board in the US not solely because of Trump but don't tell him:lossinit:


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42853225

bill maher 2days ago made an observation trump loves to pick fights with blacks . And as if on cue he lashes out at Jay z (a nobody in the scheme of things) another example of what happens if you don't bend the knee

Unemployment is historically low across the board in the US not solely because of Trump but don't tell him:lossinit:


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42853225

hey Spence....this....I am definitely not following :spin:

bill maher 2days ago made an observation trump loves to pick fights with blacks . And as if on cue he lashes out at Jay z (a nobody in the scheme of things) another example of what happens if you don't bend the knee

Unemployment is historically low across the board in the US not solely because of Trump but don't tell him:lossinit:


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42853225

Jay z criticized trump, trump fired back like a baby. Very much like obama, I remember when mat Damon dared to criticize obama, obama made fun of him, and his latest movie, on national tv. Wdmso, you are deranged with hate. Take off the tin foil hat.
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I remember when mat Damon dared to criticize obama, obama made fun of him, and his latest movie, on national tv. Wdmso, you are deranged with hate. Take off the tin foil hat.
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Oh please describe.
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Trump does have a thing for trying to tell off black people. They should show a little "gratitude"
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Trump does have a thing for trying to tell off black people. They should show a little "gratitude"
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it's weird how some people desperately try to inject racism into everything...do you work at ESPN?

I just learned that Jay-Z's producer's name is "No I.D."....that's pretty funny

Oh please describe.
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See, here's the difference between me and you. You said large numbers of Trump supporters are not taking part in the surging economy. I asked you who they are, and I saw no response. But you ask me for clarification, and as always, I provide it. That's the benefit I enjoy of having convictions that aren't based on made-up jibberish.

Matt Damon once said of Obama, that he was (I'm paraphrasing, but very close) "I'm disappointed in his performance". Now 99.99% of Hollywood was in the bag for Obama. But as always, like Trump, Obama could never let anything go, he is too thin-skinned, too juvenile and vindictive. So at some kind of press conference or something, Obama said (paraphrasing again) "well Matt, I saw your latest movie, and I have to say, right back at ya".

I mean come on, right? Ha ha ha ha ha. I mean, is that clever, or what?

Obama wasn't anywhere near as crass or vulgar or sophomoric as Trump. He was every bit the thin-skinned baby.

Look it up.

But as always, like Trump, Obama could never let anything go, he is too thin-skinned, too juvenile and vindictive. So at some kind of press conference or something, Obama said (paraphrasing again) "well Matt, I saw your latest movie, and I have to say, right back at ya".

I mean come on, right? Ha ha ha ha ha. I mean, is that clever, or what?

Obama wasn't anywhere near as crass or vulgar or sophomoric as Trump. He was every bit the thin-skinned baby.

Look it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T1JfZ3r0EA

Atta boy, Columbo!!

Obama...always wrong, yet never in doubt.
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it's weird how some people desperately try to inject racism into everything...do you work at ESPN?
No, but my BIL does
I just learned that Jay-Z's producer's name is "No I.D."....that's pretty funny

He has a long history of having issues w/Blacks. Goes back to when he got in trouble for discriminating against them in not renting apartments.

He has a long history of having issues w/Blacks. Goes back to when he got in trouble for discriminating against them in not renting apartments.

I saw a video of Jesse Jackson honoring and praising him at a Rainbow Coalition function....you'd think he'd know :bl:

He might of gotten paid off.

He might of gotten paid off.

yup...the Russians paid him off :rotflmao:

Jay z criticized trump, trump fired back like a baby. Very much like obama, I remember when mat Damon dared to criticize obama, obama made fun of him, and his latest movie, on national tv. Wdmso, you are deranged with hate. Take off the tin foil hat.
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Your comparisons are not even close . Your examples are like saying 1st 2nd and 3rd degree burns are the same because they are burns. That’s how you rationalize Trump and Obama thin skin as the same . Whatsvmore amazing you believe it.. yet you present your Matt Damon story to fit your argument but actual events differ https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1796591
"I have to say, it was pretty funny," Damon said -- though he doubted Obama wrote it himself.

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Your comparisons are not even close . Your examples are like saying 1st 2nd and 3rd degree burns are the same because they are burns. That’s how you rationalize Trump and Obama thin skin as the same . What more amazing you believe it
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You keep acting as if I'm a Trump apologist like Sean Hannity. Not sure whatever gave you that impression.

Here's how I view the Obama-Damon situation.

Matt Damon is an empty-headed celebrity who confuses his fame, with knowledge of public policy. In doing so, he criticized President Obama about something he probably knows nothing about. Obama should have ignored it, but he's too much of a thin-skinned baby, so he fired back in a very un-presidential way.

Here's how I view the JayZ - Trump situation..

Matt Damon Jay Z is an empty-headed celebrity who confuses his fame, with knowledge of public policy. In doing so, he criticized President Obama Trump about something he probably knows nothing about. Obama Trump should have ignored it, but he's too much of a thin-skinned baby, so he fired back in a very un-presidential way.

Barbara Streisand hated George Bush. She hated him. Someone once asked Bush what he thought of all the insults she hurled at him, and he said something like "she's a citizen, she has that right, and I love her music".

That's what a president should do when an empty-headed celebrity spouts off. Ignore it. Obama could never ignore it (my God, did he ever stop whining about Foxnews), and Trump clearly can't ignore it.

Trump reacts in a much more infantile way than Obama did. But both were very thin-skinned babies who had zero tolerance for criticism.

Mat Damon's reaction to Obama's insult means absolutely nothing. What matters, is that one celebrity dared to criticize Obama, and he couldn't let it go. In that way, he's exactly like Trump.

WDMSO, I can refer to celebrities who like what Trump does. Does that mean Trump's behavior is acceptable to you (answer:no)? Or are you only convinced by left-leaning celebrities (answer:yes)?

Your examples are like saying 1st 2nd and 3rd degree burns are the same because they are burns. That’s how you rationalize Trump and Obama thin skin as the same .


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I see what you did there...pretty slick:hihi: