high school teacher — a reserve police officer — accidentally discharged his gun during a lesson at Seaside High School in Seaside, Calif.,

"No one was seriously injured during the incident." I bet the students ears beg to differ


the term accidental discharge is no longer used in the Military they call it a negligent discharge and discipline follows for the supervisor and the trigger puller


He was Trained .. and we haven't even started a nation wide arming program

the laws of probability more guns equal more accidents & gun violence

Lol.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

high school teacher — a reserve police officer — accidentally discharged his gun during a lesson at Seaside High School in Seaside, Calif.,

"No one was seriously injured during the incident." I bet the students ears beg to differ


the term accidental discharge is no longer used in the Military they call it a negligent discharge and discipline follows for the supervisor and the trigger puller


He was Trained .. and we haven't even started a nation wide arming program

the laws of probability more guns equal more accidents & gun violence

What would it take, for a little honesty to take place here?

I am not a huge advocate of arming teachers. But no one said it would be perfect. If teachers have guns, there is the potential for more violence...the guns could go off accidentally, the teacher could snap and shoot up the school, a student could take the gun and shoot up the school. Those are the "cons" of arming teachers.

WDMSO, when you evaluate an idea, do you only look at the cons, or do you consider the pros, as well?

The idea of arming teachers offers the following potentially significant pros - it may deter some would-be shooters, it may help stop shootings from being worse than they otherwise would be.

Arming teachers might lead to some additional violence. But it's possible, that the violence it prevents, more than offsets that. So while the idea doesn't solve the problem, it might be an improvement over the status quo. That's the argument we need to have.

"the laws of probability more guns equal more accidents & gun violence"

When you ignore the deterrent effect, and you ignore the potential ability for a teacher to reduce the casualties of a shooting, you are right.

We will never get anywhere with thoughtless partisan rants.

Your logic is that perfect is the enemy of 'better'. It's thoughtless and dishonest.

I don't think you can determine IF arming teachers will have the affect people think it might. Teachers aren't immune to having life beat them down to a point they think they have had it and having seen teachers back in my day take a lot of crap from the kids who really didn't want to be there; not sure I'd want that guy/gal armed when he/she snaps.

Then they have to be willing to use that gun and actually kill someone at close range, that's a world apart from shouting targets at your local gun club range. Then what if the shooter hasn't shot anyone yet and there is a possibility he can be talked down by a police negotiator, but the teacher prevents that from happening by confronting him and it escalates if the teacher fails to neutralize the shooter.

Then you have the crazy student, who learns the teacher has a gun and he doesn't have access to any at home, there are just so many situations to consider to even make a judgement call. I personally think funding for better school security measures, better awareness from other students (see something, say something), teachers and parents; along with better mental health care options are a better options.

What will be interesting down the road quite a ways, is what percentage of these younger kids who walked out yesterday asking for change, become the voters who will decide to seat someone who will change the gun laws in Washington. Look at this year and the Me too movement, women becoming empowered and the youth speaking out for changes; if the momentum holds some changes are inevitable.

What would it take, for a little honesty to take place here?

I am not a huge advocate of arming teachers. But no one said it would be perfect. If teachers have guns, there is the potential for more violence...the guns could go off accidentally, the teacher could snap and shoot up the school, a student could take the gun and shoot up the school. Those are the "cons" of arming teachers.

WDMSO, when you evaluate an idea, do you only look at the cons, or do you consider the pros, as well?

The idea of arming teachers offers the following potentially significant pros - it may deter some would-be shooters, it may help stop shootings from being worse than they otherwise would be.

Arming teachers might lead to some additional violence. But it's possible, that the violence it prevents, more than offsets that. So while the idea doesn't solve the problem, it might be an improvement over the status quo. That's the argument we need to have.

"the laws of probability more guns equal more accidents & gun violence"

When you ignore the deterrent effect, and you ignore the potential ability for a teacher to reduce the casualties of a shooting, you are right.

We will never get anywhere with thoughtless partisan rants.

Your logic is that perfect is the enemy of 'better'. It's thoughtless and dishonest.
These are in the US
On average 10 children a year have been killed by guns in schools over the past 25 years.
On average 100 children a year have been killed riding their bicycles to school each year for the past 25 years
On average 1500 children a year are killed in gun violence
On average 15000 children a year are injured by guns
You accuse people of being thoughtless and dishonest because they think that more children will be killed if there are more guns in schools when the shots fired were one of two negligent discharge incidents yesterday. I can not find good statistics on negligent gun discharges by people currently permitted to have guns in schools, it would be interesting. However I would surmise that it will not save lives.
I think we have a gun problem but i think it is far bigger than school shootings

These are in the US
On average 10 children a year have been killed by guns in schools over the past 25 years.
On average 100 children a year have been killed riding their bicycles to school each year for the past 25 years
On average 1500 children a year are killed in gun violence
On average 15000 children a year are injured by guns
You accuse people of being thoughtless and dishonest because they think that more children will be killed if there are more guns in schools when the shots fired were one of two negligent discharge incidents yesterday. I can not find good statistics on negligent gun discharges by people currently permitted to have guns in schools, it would be interesting. However I would surmise that it will not save lives.
I think we have a gun problem but i think it is far bigger than school shootings

"You accuse people of being thoughtless and dishonest because they think that more children will be killed if there are more guns in schools "

WRONG.

I accuse them of being thoughtless, because in order to determine the effect of arming teachers, you need to estimate the additional violence caused by the extra guns, and then subtract from that, the violence that is potentially reduced by the presence of the extra guns. When doing a cost benefit analysis, you need to consider both the costs and the benefits, not one or the other.

Both sides are guilty of this, both sides tend to fixate on the side that serves their agenda, and ignore the side that serves the other agenda. That's why nothing ever gets done.

"You accuse people of being thoughtless and dishonest because they think that more children will be killed if there are more guns in schools "

WRONG.

I accuse them of being thoughtless, because in order to determine the effect of arming teachers, you need to estimate the additional violence caused by the extra guns, and then subtract from that, the violence that is potentially reduced by the presence of the extra guns. When doing a cost benefit analysis, you need to consider both the costs and the benefits, not one or the other.

Both sides are guilty of this, both sides tend to fixate on the side that serves their agenda, and ignore the side that serves the other agenda. That's why nothing ever gets done.

Prove your point then, what is the cost benefit analysis

Prove your point then, what is the cost benefit analysis

I haven't the slightest idea, never claimed I did. What I did claim, is that the idea, like all ideas, has both a cost and a benefit. It's quite possible the cost outweighs the benefit. But you can't ignore the benefit, and make a decision based just on the cost. That's all I'm saying.

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/nra-proposes-having-second-armed-teacher-in-every-classroom-to-stop-first-armed-teacher-from-misfiring

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/nra-proposes-having-second-armed-teacher-in-every-classroom-to-stop-first-armed-teacher-from-misfiring

And I know a few dozen families in Newtown, who would gouge their own eyes out, for the teachers there to have been armed.

As I said, the thoughtless ideologues, focus on the one side of the cost/benefit analysis that serves their agenda, and ignore the other side. Too bad the places where you get your news, don't have cartoons showing tiny caskets that are not lowered into the ground because of the occasional (admittedly rare) benefit of having armed security around...

And I know a few dozen families in Newtown, who would gouge their own eyes out, for the teachers there to have been armed.

As I said, the thoughtless ideologues, focus on the one side of the cost/benefit analysis that serves their agenda, and ignore the other side. Too bad the places where you get your news, don't have cartoons showing tiny caskets that are not lowered into the ground because of the occasional (admittedly rare) benefit of having armed security around...
So you are going to save some fraction of 10 children per year, and not worry about the 1500 other children who are killed or 15,000 who are injured by gun violence.
Perhaps the fractional savings of having children not ride bicycles to school would be worthwhile, what about those parents? There are many more of those than parents of children killed by school shooters and no one has the right to a bicycle.
How will you explain the cost benefit analysis to the parent of a child shot negligently by an armed school teacher/guard?
Or when the school shooter uses the armed school teacher/guards gun to kill someone?

And I know a few dozen families in Newtown, who would gouge their own eyes out, for the teachers there to have been armed.
Or simply for a properly secured entryway and a lack of easy access to a Bushmaster XM-15.

And I know a few dozen families in Newtown, who would gouge their own eyes out, for the teachers there to have been armed.



And yet these Newtown families would disagree with you.

http://wnpr.org/post/sandy-hook-parents-reject-call-arming-teachers
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

And yet these Newtown families would disagree with you.

http://wnpr.org/post/sandy-hook-parents-reject-call-arming-teachers
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I dont care what NPR says, those parents wish there were armed teachers in that school on that day. It's not possible that they didn't wish the teachers were armed that day.

Your NPR link quoted one of the Sandy Hook families. One. One is less than sixteen. I know math isn't a strong suit for liberals, but surely even NPR knows that 1 < 16.

Or simply for a properly secured entryway and a lack of easy access to a Bushmaster XM-15.

Major Hasan used a handgun, and killed 13 soldiers, shot 30 more. I have stated many times that I am convinced there is a reason why a lot of these kooks choose weapons that look like the AR-15, but you or I could walk into an elementary school with a handgun and easily kill 20. I'm not saying I like the AR-15. I'm saying you can make a compelling argument, that banning them, might not do much. But it might save SOME lives (see what I did there? I mentioned the pro AND the con - try it sometime, I promise that your brain won't explode, you might even like how it feels to show some intellectual honesty).

As to the entryway, how did Cruz get in? I never learned that...But my school is secure, has one locked door with a buzzer. I can make up a lot of different stories to get in. I've gone in the middle of the day, rung the buzzer, and told whoever answered that my son forgot his saxophone and I was there to drop it off. They don't confirm before they buzz me in. But security is of course, part of it.

I wouldn't arm teachers. I'd have soldiers.

Armed teachers should be #24 on the list of solutions and the few that can do it are by far the exception to the rule.

Short version, you have to prevent people that should not have access to a weapon from getting hands on them.

You need to work out a way people that should not have access are flagged, then heard in a court in order not to overly infringe on their rights.

You need to vastly improve training and school security.

There have surely been studies done to come up with alternatives that enhance security.

Proven: Hanging signs stating "Gun Free Zone" are about as effective as signs stating "Drug Free Zones"

I dont care what NPR says, those parents wish there were armed teachers in that school on that day. It's not possible that they didn't wish the teachers were armed that day.

Your NPR link quoted one of the Sandy Hook families. One. One is less than sixteen. I know math isn't a strong suit for liberals, but surely even NPR knows that 1 < 16.
Actually sounds like they discussed it with two people although there are quotes from one. Do you have any quotes from those "dozens of families" who you claimed wish teachers had guns that day?


And here's a quote from Nicole Hockley from another article.

“Rather than arm them with a firearm,” Ms. Hockley said of teachers, “I would rather arm them with the knowledge of how to prevent these acts from happening in the first place.”

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Actually sounds like they discussed it with two people although there are quotes from one. Do you have any quotes from those "dozens of families" who you claimed wish teachers had guns that day?


And here's a quote from Nicole Hockley from another article.

“Rather than arm them with a firearm,” Ms. Hockley said of teachers, “I would rather arm them with the knowledge of how to prevent these acts from happening in the first place.”

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

the article you posted said Newton families - plural. I Saw a husband and wide comment about teachers. one family. 1<plural.

Paul, I'm also opposed to arming teachers, but I like a little honesty.

"Do you have any quotes from those "dozens of families" who you claimed wish teachers had guns that day?"

Nope. But I have common sense bursting out of my ears.

What would it take, for a little honesty to take place here?

I am not a huge advocate of arming teachers. But no one said it would be perfect. If teachers have guns, there is the potential for more violence...the guns could go off accidentally, the teacher could snap and shoot up the school, a student could take the gun and shoot up the school. Those are the "cons" of arming teachers.

WDMSO, when you evaluate an idea, do you only look at the cons, or do you consider the pros, as well?

The idea of arming teachers offers the following potentially significant pros - it may deter some would-be shooters, it may help stop shootings from being worse than they otherwise would be.

Arming teachers might lead to some additional violence. But it's possible, that the violence it prevents, more than offsets that. So while the idea doesn't solve the problem, it might be an improvement over the status quo. That's the argument we need to have.

"the laws of probability more guns equal more accidents & gun violence"

When you ignore the deterrent effect, and you ignore the potential ability for a teacher to reduce the casualties of a shooting, you are right.

We will never get anywhere with thoughtless partisan rants.

Your logic is that perfect is the enemy of 'better'. It's thoughtless and dishonest.


why is it a good guy with a gun or a teacher with a gun an honest idea

posting about a good guy with a gun in a school shooting a ceiling tile... in class or saying more guns more likely increases the chances of accidents then preventing school shootings is thoughtless and dishonest ??

i think those who support guns in schools have not conducted an honest risk assessment of the whole idea they just assume gun equals better safety.. i dont assumes its risker to have a gun on a teacher a risk assessment shows it is

the article you posted said Newton families - plural. I Saw a husband and wide comment about teachers. one family. 1<plural.

Paul, I'm also opposed to arming teachers, but I like a little honesty.

"Do you have any quotes from those "dozens of families" who you claimed wish teachers had guns that day?"

Nope. But I have common sense bursting out of my ears.

What would it take, for a little honesty to take place here?



Given you can't back up your statement (and were just shown to be wrong about liberals counting ability and a petty angry person at that), maybe if you were concerned about honesty you should stop lying yourself. If you want to talk about lack of honesty, either pull up statement from "dozens of families" or look in the mirror to see the person who is not honest.

And I know a few dozen families in Newtown, who would gouge their own eyes out, for the teachers there to have been armed.


When you say you know them, do you know them? I don't know a few dozen, but I do personally know people who lost a child, a former colleague who lost a child, and have a good friend who had kids in Sandy Hook School that day and I have NEVER heard them say they wish the teachers were armed. Pretty sure you are making that up and it is a pretty egregious thing to state that if you don't actually know it. I understand the sentiment you are referring to, but many of those parents have dedicated their lives to preventing it happening to other people and I don't know one of them who is promoting armed teachers. I do know some of them are appalled by the idea.

Nope. But I have common sense bursting out of my ears.

There is that back patting again.

Some competition here

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/trump-i-am-the-smartest-person-in-the-room

There is that back patting again.
Try making that wrong.

When you say you know them, do you know them? I don't know a few dozen, but I do personally know people who lost a child, a former colleague who lost a child, and have a good friend who had kids in Sandy Hook School that day and I have NEVER heard them say they wish the teachers were armed. Pretty sure you are making that up and it is a pretty egregious thing to state that if you don't actually know it. I understand the sentiment you are referring to, but many of those parents have dedicated their lives to preventing it happening to other people and I don't know one of them who is promoting armed teachers. I do know some of them are appalled by the idea.

It is easy to sit in a chair while you are supposed to be working and be the judge and jury. Sometime s the context of such statements are lost on certain individuals. I think what Jim is trying to explain is that ANY PARENT who lost a child that day at Sandy Hook would have embraced ANY measure which could have prevented their child's death. Obviously the children were defenseless and there were no heroes in the building that could use martial arts or fancy words to help save a life. Let's not pretend that if any of us finds ourselves in a situation where the outlook appears dire and the bad guys have guns as well as bad intentions then we would hope for any way to defend ourselves and our loved ones. Who is going to be the first fool here that gets a look at the news and hears that a shooter is at their children's school with plenty of ammo and there is NOBODY to defend their son or daughter. Can you honestly say you would just sit there and HOPE for the best? Yes, we have to do better at preventing a situation like this in the first place. But what happens when that doesn't work?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It is easy to sit in a chair while you are supposed to be working and be the judge and jury. Sometime s the context of such statements are lost on certain individuals. I think what Jim is trying to explain is that ANY PARENT who lost a child that day at Sandy Hook would have embraced ANY measure which could have prevented their child's death. Obviously the children were defenseless and there were no heroes in the building that could use martial arts or fancy words to help save a life. Let's not pretend that if any of us finds ourselves in a situation where the outlook appears dire and the bad guys have guns as well as bad intentions then we would hope for any way to defend ourselves and our loved ones. Who is going to be the first fool here that gets a look at the news and hears that a shooter is at their children's school with plenty of ammo and there is NOBODY to defend their son or daughter. Can you honestly say you would just sit there and HOPE for the best? Yes, we have to do better at preventing a situation like this in the first place. But what happens when that doesn't work?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
These are in the US
There are 74 million children under 18 in the US, I didn't check to see just how many are in school, but lets say 50 million.
Roughly 20,000 children die each year for any reason.
On average 10 children a year have been killed by guns in schools over the past 25 years.
On average 100 children a year have been killed riding their bicycles to school each year for the past 25 years
On average 1500 children a year are killed in gun violence
On average 15000 children a year are injured by guns
On average 570 children a year are killed in car accidents
Just where are our priorities?

why is it a good guy with a gun or a teacher with a gun an honest idea

posting about a good guy with a gun in a school shooting a ceiling tile... in class or saying more guns more likely increases the chances of accidents then preventing school shootings is thoughtless and dishonest ??

i think those who support guns in schools have not conducted an honest risk assessment of the whole idea they just assume gun equals better safety.. i dont assumes its risker to have a gun on a teacher a risk assessment shows it is

"why is it a good guy with a gun or a teacher with a gun an honest idea "

Because in most cases (if not all cases), the mass shootings stop at some point, after the good guys with guns show up. Not before. So common sense dictates that if a mass shooter shows up somewhere, the closer a good guy is with a gun, the fewer victims there will be. Now, having guns in school may cost more lives than it saves (accidental shootings, someone getting their hands on the guns, etc). But there is a potential benefit to having someone on scene with a gun. Are you really going to say that makes no sense?

"i think those who support guns in schools have not conducted an honest risk assessment "

Some, sure. Some are touting the benefits of guns in schools and acting like there is no downside.

Given you can't back up your statement (and were just shown to be wrong about liberals counting ability and a petty angry person at that), maybe if you were concerned about honesty you should stop lying yourself. If you want to talk about lack of honesty, either pull up statement from "dozens of families" or look in the mirror to see the person who is not honest.

"Given you can't back up your statement "

Sure I can, because I have a brain. Who would rather wait for the cops to show up, in that situation, than rely on an armed teacher?

You said families, plural, spoke out against it. The article only referred to one.

These are in the US
There are 74 million children under 18 in the US, I didn't check to see just how many are in school, but lets say 50 million.
Roughly 20,000 children die each year for any reason.
On average 10 children a year have been killed by guns in schools over the past 25 years.
On average 100 children a year have been killed riding their bicycles to school each year for the past 25 years
On average 1500 children a year are killed in gun violence
On average 15000 children a year are injured by guns
On average 570 children a year are killed in car accidents
Just where are our priorities?

Not sure about that but my priority is to raise my children to grow up to be independent, kind people. They deserve to be protected regardless of where or how.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"Given you can't back up your statement "

Sure I can, because I have a brain. Who would rather wait for the cops to show up, in that situation, than rely on an armed teacher?

You said families, plural, spoke out against it. The article only referred to one.

If you had a brain you wouldn't have questioned the article.

So either show us statements from the "dozens of families" or admit you're dishonest (either way you're petty for even commenting on the plural).

If you had a brain you wouldn't have questioned the article.

So either show us statements from the "dozens of families" or admit you're dishonest (either way you're petty for even commenting on the plural).

The article couldn't even get the title right. There weren't multiple families that spoke against arming teachers.

If you were told there was a shooter at your kids' elementary school, a shooter whose goal was to kill as many kids as possible before dying, and you choices were

(1) wait for the police to show up, or
(2) have armed teachers in the school,

in that situation, I can't believe any meaningful number of people would pick #1. Now, thank goodness these shootings are rare, and on 99.99% of school days, you can make a compelling case that kids are safer with no guns in school. But once there's a shooter hellbent on random mass murder? I don't think any meaningful number of parents would pick #1.

The article couldn't even get the title right. There weren't multiple families that spoke against arming teachers.

.

The author probably figured that anyone with a brain would have know that mutiple people would have thought that way and they didn't have to quote more than one.

There were multiple people as I provided quotes from 2.

When you say you know them, do you know them? I don't know a few dozen, but I do personally know people who lost a child, a former colleague who lost a child, and have a good friend who had kids in Sandy Hook School that day and I have NEVER heard them say they wish the teachers were armed. Pretty sure you are making that up and it is a pretty egregious thing to state that if you don't actually know it. I understand the sentiment you are referring to, but many of those parents have dedicated their lives to preventing it happening to other people and I don't know one of them who is promoting armed teachers. I do know some of them are appalled by the idea.

I came to know two families, whom I met afterwards when I brought my pet therapy dog to the scene and then to their homes. I would never ask them anything about the incident, so I didn't take a poll.

"it is a pretty egregious thing to state that if you don't actually know it

I apologize, didn't mean it that way, but I hear you.

"I don't know one of them who is promoting armed teachers"

I don't either. I was speculating. I'm very comfortable with the speculation.

How about if I phrase it this way, instead of making a specific reference...I'm comfortable that 99% of parents out there, when informed there is a mass shooter at school determined to kill as many children as possible before being stopped by police, would rather have armed teachers than wait for the police. I'm sure I am correct.

If you or Paul disagree, can you tell me on what basis you'd rather wait for the cops to show up? Because of the chance that if the teacher tried to intervene, he'd shoot innocent kids? That's obviously a possibility, which is why I'd rather see soldiers in the schools than armed teachers. But it's incredibly unlikely that someone trying to intervene, could accidentally cause nearly the carnage of someone trying to cause as much carnage as possible.

The author probably figured that anyone with a brain would have know that mutiple people would have thought that way and they didn't have to quote more than one.

There were multiple people as I provided quotes from 2.

Or he could have lied and used the word families intentionally, in order to attempt prove the liberal point he was trying to make.

Or he could have lied and used the word families intentionally, in order to attempt prove the liberal point he was trying to make.

Why lie when more than 1 family stated the same thing? Maybe only providing 1 quote was a way to get the Conserv. anger going?

Why lie when more than 1 family stated the same thing? Maybe only providing 1 quote was a way to get the Conserv. anger going?

"Why lie when more than 1 family stated the same thing? "

We've long past beaten this to death. In your NPR article, I saw 1 family (just the husband actually) speak against the idea. If there was more than one family speaking against arming teachers, I was 100% wrong.

"a way to get the Conserv. anger going'

I'm not even a little bit angry. How come when you challenge me, you don't admit to being foaming-at-the-mouth angry? It's only a symptom of anger, when I challenge you?

Paul if you heard there was a shooter at a school that your little kids were in, and you had every reason to believe that it was one of these shooters whose only goal was to kill as many children as possible before being stopped...you'd rather wait for the police to show up, than have an armed teacher intervene? I'm not asking whether or not you want guns the other 99.999% of the time, I mean in that godawful scenario? You really think the expected body count is lower, by waiting for the cavalry to show up? I can't fathom how you could think that.

I'm opposed to arming teachers, because I think the harm (accidental shootings) outweighs the benefit I think would be gained during the unthinkable (and rare) mass shootings. But if I knew a mass shooting was taking place? I see no benefit in waiting and praying, then you are at the mercy of someone who has no mercy.

"Why lie when more than 1 family stated the same thing? "

We've long past beaten this to death. In your NPR article, I saw 1 family (just the husband actually) speak against the idea. If there was more than one family speaking against arming teachers, I was 100% wrong.

"a way to get the Conserv. anger going'

I'm not even a little bit angry. How come when you challenge me, you don't admit to being foaming-at-the-mouth angry? It's only a symptom of anger, when I challenge you?

y.

And it was a petty to mention that there was only one quote in the article and to say liberals are horrible at math or whatever the heck you said. And then in the same thread when you talk about honesty you lied and said there was dozens of families from Newtown who want teachers armed yet you can't provide one quote. I'm not foaming at the mouth angry. I don't constantly come back to comment on every post that I see that I disagree with at all hours of the day night and weekends like you do. Look at your interactions with everyone you disagree with here and tell me that doesn't show anger.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Now, having guns in school may cost more lives than it saves (accidental shootings, someone getting their hands on the guns, etc). But there is a potential benefit to having someone on scene with a gun. Are you really going to say that makes no sense?
I don't think anyone is saying it makes no sense. They're saying it makes little sense. The negatives are pretty significant.

I don't think anyone is saying it makes no sense. They're saying it makes little sense. The negatives are pretty significant.

I think many people are saying it makes no sense (if Trump supports it, it must therefore make no sense). I agree with you on the negatives 100%.

I understand emotionally how one can say if there were only more people with guns the problem would be cured. However i think if you do a "cost benefit" analysis of the situation wherein 10 of the 50 million school age children are killed by guns in schools and we are going to solve it by putting armed guards in all 125,000 schools in the USA.
Let's see if we have more than 10 die from Negligent discharge or other associated causes.
Now if you want to talk about the children killed or injured by guns outside of school, I could only hope that you are not convinced that having more guns would solve that also.

I understand emotionally how one can say if there were only more people with guns the problem would be cured.



I'm pretty sure no one has ever said this....

I'm pretty sure no one has ever said this....

Donald J. Trump
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
I never said “give teachers guns” like was stated on Fake News @CNN & @NBC. What I said was to look at the possibility of giving “concealed guns to gun adept teachers with military or special training experience - only the best. 20% of teachers, a lot, would now be able to
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Donald J. Trump
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
I never said “give teachers guns” like was stated on Fake News @CNN & @NBC. What I said was to look at the possibility of giving “concealed guns to gun adept teachers with military or special training experience - only the best. 20% of teachers, a lot, would now be able to
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

which has no resemblance to what you stated

which has no resemblance to what you stated

I guess 20% is equal or less than are currently in schools or is it just an alternative fact
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I think many people are saying it makes no sense (if Trump supports it, it must therefore make no sense). I agree with you on the negatives 100%.
Well, to be fair I don't think most of what Trump says makes any sense. No thought behind any of it, he just repeats the last thing he saw on FoxNews.

I guess 20% is equal or less than are currently in schools or is it just an alternative fact
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

wtf are you talking about?

wtf are you talking about?

You can’t figure this out
I’ll explain it in simple terms
The president Donald Trump suggested that 20% of teachers (qualified)would carry firearms
I assume you think that is less than are currently in schools
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You can’t figure this out
I’ll explain it in simple terms
The president Donald Trump suggested that 20% of teachers (qualified)would carry firearms
I assume you think that is less than are currently in schools
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

you wrote...and I quoted...

"I understand emotionally how one can say if there were only more people with guns the problem would be cured."

no one has said more more people with guns would "cure the problem"....

it's easy to make a false statement like that, argue against it and then claim that anyone that disagrees with you must be crazy....it's done here on a regular basis

Trump wrote..and I quote from you..."What I said was to look at the possibility of giving “concealed guns to gun adept teachers with military or special training experience - only the best. 20% of teachers"

that is an entirely reasonable statement...especially for Trump...and bears no resemblance to what you wrote and claim some have said or "one can say"

what has been said and is obvious is that if someone is shooting at you and those around you in one of these situations...your BEST chance for survival is if someone has the ability to shoot back....you may not realize it but there are a lot of people who carry concealed weapons...could be standing behind you in the grocery store...you would never know...I worked with a guy for years who was always carrying....he never shot out a ceiling tile or anything else....no one suggested forcing a bunch of teachers to carry guns and strap ammo belts across their chests like is being portrayed....I'm sure if it was ever put forward snowflake teachers and unions would freak and organize walkouts anyway....but schools would obviously be safer if it had employees, teachers or others who had the ability and training to shoot back if there were a situation.....there's that and in the Florida case...if they actually held that kid accountable rather than what did happen where a bunch of liberals were busy stroking each other and handing out awards to each other for keeping bad kids out of the criminal justice system so they could stay in the schools and terrorize their teachers and classmates...I'm not sure what "the cure" is for that kind of stupidity

interesting...

Jan 18, 2018 - A student was stabbed at New Rochelle High School, police say, the second one to be injured in a fight after a 16-year-old girl died in another stabbing last week.

Monday, December 18, 2017 Bronx school where student was stabbed to death to be shut down

Dec 19, 2017 - BROWNSVILLE, Brooklyn — A student was stabbed near a Brownsville high school and then ran inside the school for help Tuesday afternoon, officials said.

November 7th 2017 , Ga -- A 14-year-old student is being detained, while a 15-year-old is being treated for stab wounds after a stabbing this morning at Ballard-Hudson Middle School.

Jan 23, 2018 - Two Lincoln High School students stabbed each other during an altercation between the two on Tuesday, the San Diego Unified School District (SDUSD) confirmed.

Feb 22, 2018 - A Lawrenceville teen accused of stabbing his father and brother before fleeing police Wednesday afternoon had been sent home from school hours earlier for bringing a knife to campus.

Feb 25, 2018 - A first-year student in the University of New England's College of Osteopathic Medicine was stabbed to death Saturday morning inside a public library in Massachusetts.

Jan 11, 2018 - Two students have been hospitalized after police say a third student attacked them with a knife at a Prince George's County high school Thursday morning.

Mar 5, 2018 - Castroville boy, 12, in stable condition after stabbed at school. ... A student was viciously stabbed in the chest by another student at North Monterey County Middle School in Castroville Monday morning, according to deputies.

Jan 18, 2018 - A 16-year-old boy was stabbed by another student inside New Rochelle High School on Thursday morning, the third violent incident in the past eight days involving students from the school.

Jan 27, 2018 - An 18-year-old Valley Community School student reportedly stabbed another student Friday in Los Banos and was arrested for attempted murder.

Feb 19, 2018 - A student at Permian High School was stabbed three times following a fight after school on Monday.

Jan 30, 2018 - “He said, 'Well, Mom, I hope I don't get stabbed today,' ” Martinez, 47, recalled. Gianni told The Post that after the third violent incident, “Everybody was panicking. “Like, who's next? What's going to happen?” he said.

Feb 6, 2018 - Police say a 16-year-old male student from Parkdale High student was stabbed multiple times during an incident near the school grounds in Prince George's County.

Feb 19, 2018 - ODESSA, TX — A 15-year-old student has been arrested and charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, a second-degree felony. The charges against him came following a stabbing at Permian High School today.

interesting...

Jan 18, 2018 - A student was stabbed at New Rochelle High School, police say, the second one to be injured in a fight after a 16-year-old girl died in another stabbing last week.

Monday, December 18, 2017 Bronx school where student was stabbed to death to be shut down

Dec 19, 2017 - BROWNSVILLE, Brooklyn — A student was stabbed near a Brownsville high school and then ran inside the school for help Tuesday afternoon, officials said.

November 7th 2017 , Ga -- A 14-year-old student is being detained, while a 15-year-old is being treated for stab wounds after a stabbing this morning at Ballard-Hudson Middle School.

Jan 23, 2018 - Two Lincoln High School students stabbed each other during an altercation between the two on Tuesday, the San Diego Unified School District (SDUSD) confirmed.

Feb 22, 2018 - A Lawrenceville teen accused of stabbing his father and brother before fleeing police Wednesday afternoon had been sent home from school hours earlier for bringing a knife to campus.

Feb 25, 2018 - A first-year student in the University of New England's College of Osteopathic Medicine was stabbed to death Saturday morning inside a public library in Massachusetts.

Jan 11, 2018 - Two students have been hospitalized after police say a third student attacked them with a knife at a Prince George's County high school Thursday morning.

Mar 5, 2018 - Castroville boy, 12, in stable condition after stabbed at school. ... A student was viciously stabbed in the chest by another student at North Monterey County Middle School in Castroville Monday morning, according to deputies.

Jan 18, 2018 - A 16-year-old boy was stabbed by another student inside New Rochelle High School on Thursday morning, the third violent incident in the past eight days involving students from the school.

Jan 27, 2018 - An 18-year-old Valley Community School student reportedly stabbed another student Friday in Los Banos and was arrested for attempted murder.

Feb 19, 2018 - A student at Permian High School was stabbed three times following a fight after school on Monday.

Jan 30, 2018 - “He said, 'Well, Mom, I hope I don't get stabbed today,' ” Martinez, 47, recalled. Gianni told The Post that after the third violent incident, “Everybody was panicking. “Like, who's next? What's going to happen?” he said.

Feb 6, 2018 - Police say a 16-year-old male student from Parkdale High student was stabbed multiple times during an incident near the school grounds in Prince George's County.

Feb 19, 2018 - ODESSA, TX — A 15-year-old student has been arrested and charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, a second-degree felony. The charges against him came following a stabbing at Permian High School today.


Or are you suggesting #5

5 classic responses after mass shooting or mention of gun control

A good guy with a gun would have stopped it

Shooters target gun-free zones

No laws could have prevented the tragedy

Terrorists and criminals aren't deterred by laws

Guns are just a tool, like knives and hammers

Or are you suggesting #5



nope...just wondering where the walkouts, marches and protests are against "Big Knife", manufacturers and sellers of knives and the NKA...you know...those who are clearly responsible and have blood on their hands

that was just a tiny sample from the past couple of months...I got bored

interesting...

Jan 18, 2018 - A student was stabbed at New Rochelle High School, police say, the second one to be injured in a fight after a 16-year-old girl died in another stabbing last week.

Monday, December 18, 2017 Bronx school where student was stabbed to death to be shut down

Dec 19, 2017 - BROWNSVILLE, Brooklyn — A student was stabbed near a Brownsville high school and then ran inside the school for help Tuesday afternoon, officials said.

November 7th 2017 , Ga -- A 14-year-old student is being detained, while a 15-year-old is being treated for stab wounds after a stabbing this morning at Ballard-Hudson Middle School.

Jan 23, 2018 - Two Lincoln High School students stabbed each other during an altercation between the two on Tuesday, the San Diego Unified School District (SDUSD) confirmed.

Feb 22, 2018 - A Lawrenceville teen accused of stabbing his father and brother before fleeing police Wednesday afternoon had been sent home from school hours earlier for bringing a knife to campus.

Feb 25, 2018 - A first-year student in the University of New England's College of Osteopathic Medicine was stabbed to death Saturday morning inside a public library in Massachusetts.

Jan 11, 2018 - Two students have been hospitalized after police say a third student attacked them with a knife at a Prince George's County high school Thursday morning.

Mar 5, 2018 - Castroville boy, 12, in stable condition after stabbed at school. ... A student was viciously stabbed in the chest by another student at North Monterey County Middle School in Castroville Monday morning, according to deputies.

Jan 18, 2018 - A 16-year-old boy was stabbed by another student inside New Rochelle High School on Thursday morning, the third violent incident in the past eight days involving students from the school.

Jan 27, 2018 - An 18-year-old Valley Community School student reportedly stabbed another student Friday in Los Banos and was arrested for attempted murder.

Feb 19, 2018 - A student at Permian High School was stabbed three times following a fight after school on Monday.

Jan 30, 2018 - “He said, 'Well, Mom, I hope I don't get stabbed today,' ” Martinez, 47, recalled. Gianni told The Post that after the third violent incident, “Everybody was panicking. “Like, who's next? What's going to happen?” he said.

Feb 6, 2018 - Police say a 16-year-old male student from Parkdale High student was stabbed multiple times during an incident near the school grounds in Prince George's County.

Feb 19, 2018 - ODESSA, TX — A 15-year-old student has been arrested and charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, a second-degree felony. The charges against him came following a stabbing at Permian High School today.

I think we should ban schools.

I think we should ban schools.

haaaaa

I was joking about the NKA...but apparently such a thing exists....

"Without a dedicated grassroots organization to protect our knives, they are an easy target for those who seek restrictions on our freedoms. Knife Rights is that dedicated grassroots organization."

nope...just wondering where the walkouts, marches and protests are against "Big Knife", manufacturers and sellers of knives and the NKA...you know...those who are clearly responsible and have blood on their hands

that was just a tiny sample from the past couple of months...I got bored

Yea #5:kewl:

it's sad that you don't care about the carnage regularly being caused by knives in our nation's schools

it's sad that you don't care about the carnage regularly being caused by knives in our nation's schools

What's sad you only cared after the protest by the students and the push back against the NRA

A 13-year-old girl in Mississippi has died after allegedly being shot by her nine-year-old brother over a video game, police say.

"He's just nine," Monroe County Sheriff Cecil Cantrell told the Clarion Ledger.

"I assume he's seen this on video games or TV. I don't know if he knew exactly what this would do. I can't answer that. I do know it's a tragedy."


he knew were the gun was an knew how to use it , but lets blame Tv and Video games ... when access is the issue

A 13-year-old girl in Mississippi has died after allegedly being shot by her nine-year-old brother over a video game, police say.

"He's just nine," Monroe County Sheriff Cecil Cantrell told the Clarion Ledger.

"I assume he's seen this on video games or TV. I don't know if he knew exactly what this would do. I can't answer that. I do know it's a tragedy."


he knew were the gun was an knew how to use it , but lets blame Tv and Video games ... when access is the issue

so explain to everyone how you would have prevented this tragedy

so explain to everyone how you would have prevented this tragedy

This is current day liberalism, this is almost all that it is. It's not about solving problems by addressing the root cause, it's about finding a boogeyman to rally against, and creating the illusion that everyone who isn't on the side of the liberals, is in bed with the boogeyman..it's about creating divisiveness, that's all it is.

Want secure borders? You must by a xenophobe.
Opposed to Black Lives Matter? You are a racist.
Think Christian bakers have constitutional rights? You are a homophobe.
Think unborn babies are precious? You are a sexist who hates women.
Think Islamic jihadists are an issue? You are an Islamophobe.
Think schools should not be promoting liberal rallies during school time, but instead should be, I don't know, teaching? You don't care about dead kids. Shame on you Scott. Shame on you.

I think we should ban schools.

And cars, too.

so explain to everyone how you would have prevented this tragedy

not had a loaded gun where a 9 year could get it .. or is that to difficult to understand

not had a loaded gun where a 9 year could get it .. or is that to difficult to understand

so how would you go about that in this situation?

I'm putting you in charge...how are you..Wayne...going to ensure that the parent(s) of this boy (and remember, this is Mississippi..THOSE people are really backward and stupid...it's the south) don't have a loaded gun in their house that he can access?

This is current day liberalism, this is almost all that it is. It's not about solving problems by addressing the root cause, it's about finding a boogeyman to rally against, and creating the illusion that everyone who isn't on the side of the liberals, is in bed with the boogeyman..it's about creating divisiveness, that's all it is.

Want secure borders? You must by a xenophobe.
Opposed to Black Lives Matter? You are a racist.
Think Christian bakers have constitutional rights? You are a homophobe.
Think unborn babies are precious? You are a sexist who hates women.
Think Islamic jihadists are an issue? You are an Islamophobe.
Think schools should not be promoting liberal rallies during school time, but instead should be, I don't know, teaching? You don't care about dead kids. Shame on you Scott. Shame on you.



It's not about solving problems by addressing the root cause,

thats funny you cant even agree on what the root cause is ,,, But you just puke up every conservative talking point ,,, as if it was 2nd nature .. you must wear flip flops and tinfoil hats daily

Try thinking for yourself you might like it

I'm putting you in charge...how are you..Wayne...going to ensure that the parent(s) of this boy (and remember, this is Mississippi..THOSE people are really backward and stupid...it's the south) don't have a loaded gun in their house that he can access?

Obviously he needs to organize a march on Washington and have a school walkout day.

It really is the only answer to parental stupidity.

I'm putting you in charge...how are you..Wayne...going to ensure that the parent(s) of this boy (and remember, this is Mississippi..THOSE people are really backward and stupid...it's the south) don't have a loaded gun in their house that he can access?

I forgot we shall not infringe.. so my 1st idea is un expectable and accidental deaths are baked into the 2a cake ...

I am happy it wasn't a Knife he used you may have lost it

I forgot we shall not infringe.. so my 1st idea is un expectable and accidental deaths are baked into the 2a cake ...



forget the second amendment...you are in charge...what would you do?

Boy you guys really need to book a ring at the local gym and have at it, getting a bit too personal in the attacks, as opposed to discussing what we personally feel is a good approach. Then we have to be honest, because nothing said or discussed here will make it's way to the white house, not unless there are changes in the way the people on capitol hill vote on gun regulations. That hasn't changed much in a very long time, although the youth coming out speaking and marching, regardless of whether you think they should be in school learning something instead, are probably making a few politicians sit up and take notice. Those same teens are going to be of voting age in the very near future and it will be interesting to see if that changes the way we as a society vote on these types of issues or on who we elect to vote for changes.

Education is underfunded to begin with, so putting money at hardening schools if it detracts from other necessary school funding, isn't money well spent. We still are talking about that one teen or that one adult who is likely known by someone to be not quite right and has access to weapons, yet they slide right under the radar until they snap. If they want into a school, there a dozens of ways in besides the front door, just pick a window. Put some money into trying hard to cure the stupid arse parents that allow these fragile teens to have access to their guns, although it's very hard to cure stupid.

I'm not suggesting guns are the problem, it's a social problem that is generating these violent attacks and the media sensationalizing each and every one IMHO only provides a push to yet another troubled teen from going out in a blaze of TV glory to make the bullies pay. I know many will cringe at my stating I see no reason for the general public to be owning assault rifles or the ability to turn them from semi to fully automatic weapons and that as we know has been beaten to the point that dead horse isn't even recognizable as a horse any longer. But that's my right as it is yours to oppose it.

I don't agree that 21 is the right age, if you can serve our country and pick up a weapon to defend our rights, you have the right to buy a gun. If you have been dishonorably discharges and have mental issues, then I think you have just blown your right to own a weapon.

I'd rather see the money people want to throw at hardening schools put into mental health programs, something to help that troubled teen cope, or campaigns to shut down the school bullying; putting metal detectors and arm guards isn't going to stop everyone of these attacks.

what are you talking about?...I just put Wayne in charge...we're awaiting his executive action.....

It's not about solving problems by addressing the root cause,

thats funny you cant even agree on what the root cause is ,,, But you just puke up every conservative talking point ,,, as if it was 2nd nature .. you must wear flip flops and tinfoil hats daily

Try thinking for yourself you might like it

"thats funny you cant even agree on what the root cause is "

Give me a major issue, I'll tell you what the root cause is?

Gun violence causes - stupid parents, single parents, no parents, the internet, violence in the entertainment industry, as well as stupidly easy access to bump stocks and high capacity magazines. We have too many weapons of mass murder, but we also have a cultural problem.

"Try thinking for yourself you might like it"

I do. There are major issues on which I think liberals are right (death penalty, gay marriage, high capacity magazines). If I'm a conservative parrot, why would I feel that way?

Boy you guys really need to book a ring at the local gym and have at it, getting a bit too personal in the attacks, as opposed to discussing what we personally feel is a good approach. Then we have to be honest, because nothing said or discussed here will make it's way to the white house, not unless there are changes in the way the people on capitol hill vote on gun regulations. That hasn't changed much in a very long time, although the youth coming out speaking and marching, regardless of whether you think they should be in school learning something instead, are probably making a few politicians sit up and take notice. Those same teens are going to be of voting age in the very near future and it will be interesting to see if that changes the way we as a society vote on these types of issues or on who we elect to vote for changes.

Education is underfunded to begin with, so putting money at hardening schools if it detracts from other necessary school funding, isn't money well spent. We still are talking about that one teen or that one adult who is likely known by someone to be not quite right and has access to weapons, yet they slide right under the radar until they snap. If they want into a school, there a dozens of ways in besides the front door, just pick a window. Put some money into trying hard to cure the stupid arse parents that allow these fragile teens to have access to their guns, although it's very hard to cure stupid.

I'm not suggesting guns are the problem, it's a social problem that is generating these violent attacks and the media sensationalizing each and every one IMHO only provides a push to yet another troubled teen from going out in a blaze of TV glory to make the bullies pay. I know many will cringe at my stating I see no reason for the general public to be owning assault rifles or the ability to turn them from semi to fully automatic weapons and that as we know has been beaten to the point that dead horse isn't even recognizable as a horse any longer. But that's my right as it is yours to oppose it.

I don't agree that 21 is the right age, if you can serve our country and pick up a weapon to defend our rights, you have the right to buy a gun. If you have been dishonorably discharges and have mental issues, then I think you have just blown your right to own a weapon.

I'd rather see the money people want to throw at hardening schools put into mental health programs, something to help that troubled teen cope, or campaigns to shut down the school bullying; putting metal detectors and arm guards isn't going to stop everyone of these attacks.

"Education is underfunded to begin with"

Not in CT it's not. And we had a horrible school shooting. we have a lot of problems in CT, but spending too little on education, isn't one of them. We spend a fortune. It's just not being spent wisely, IMHO.

"Put some money into trying hard to cure the stupid arse parents "

THAT would improve things. But I don't know how you do it, exactly. I don't think it's a problem you solve with money.

"I'm not suggesting guns are the problem, it's a social problem that is generating these violent attacks "

Bingo.

"it's very hard to cure stupid. "

Bingo.

"something to help that troubled teen cope, or campaigns to shut down the school bullying"

Bingo.

"putting metal detectors and arm guards isn't going to stop everyone of these attacks"

Neither will making people better parents, neither will anti bullying programs... but they will help. All of your points, including armed guards, has the potential to stop some attacks.

"something to help that troubled teen cope, or campaigns to shut down the school bullying"

Bingo.



some of these things get thrown out there as if they don't exist...

the nations schools have been running "bullying campaigns" for years....

"mental health"......a good number of these shooters are found to be on some prescribed psychological drug which means they have been seen for mental health issues and that they ARE getting "treatment"...

"Cruz had been diagnosed at various times with “developmental disorder,” “depression,” “autism” and “ADHD,” according to a Florida Department of Children and Families Services (DCFS) report." For years, Cruz had been a client at Henderson Behavioral Health in Florida, until the fall of 2017.

For years, there were reports of his self-harm, cutting his arms, trouble controlling his temper, aggression, assaulting students, verbal abuse, banging his head, and yet in 2016, a therapist with Henderson Mental Health “deemed Nikolas to be no threat to anyone or himself at this present time,” according to the police report.

Teachers disciplined him and referred him to counseling and police responded to at least 36 emergency 911 calls to his home over a six year period."

some of these things get thrown out there as if they don't exist...

the nations schools have been running "bullying campaigns" for years....

"mental health"......a good number of these shooters are found to be on some prescribed psychological drug which means they have been seen for mental health issues and that they ARE getting "treatment"...

"Cruz had been diagnosed at various times with “developmental disorder,” “depression,” “autism” and “ADHD,” according to a Florida Department of Children and Families Services (DCFS) report." For years, Cruz had been a client at Henderson Behavioral Health in Florida, until the fall of 2017.

For years, there were reports of his self-harm, cutting his arms, trouble controlling his temper, aggression, assaulting students, verbal abuse, banging his head, and yet in 2016, a therapist with Henderson Mental Health “deemed Nikolas to be no threat to anyone or himself at this present time,” according to the police report.

Teachers disciplined him and referred him to counseling and police responded to at least 36 emergency 911 calls to his home over a six year period."

"some of these things get thrown out there as if they don't exist..."

true. I am sure we are better at reducing bullying than we used to be. But we can put a renewed emphasis on it and do better, I think that's the point.

As for Cruz, if we couldn't pick up on those red flags, then we stink.

what are you talking about?...I just put Wayne in charge...we're awaiting his executive action.....

you still haven't caught on to the intent of the post


Monroe County Sheriff Cecil Cantrell told the Clarion Ledger.

He blamed it on video games or TV. not the availability of of guns not the parents or the weapon being unsecured and loaded

but on TV and Video game .. amazing

go back to an assault weapon ban wont stop everything but those pesky numbers show it worked to reduce incidents

1994-2004, there were only 12 incidents – about one per year – due to assault weapons, totaling some 89 deaths.

In the decade following, however, both numbers spiked. From 2004-2014, there were 34 incidents involving assault weapons – and over 300 deaths.

it had nothing to do with assault weapons did it? "she had been shot with a .25 calibre handgun, according to Mississippi news source the Clarion-Ledger."

once again...


forget the second amendment...you are in charge...what would you do?

Answer the question and stop deflecting.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

He's working on it, and it's going to be epic.

Probably has fricken sharks with laser beams on their heads.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

you guys are to funny asking for solutions to a problem you insist doesn't exist .. and then try to sell yourselves a honest brokers in the conversation.. who's only response to anything gun is "Shall not infringe"

but Mississippi passes strictest abortion law.. more protection for the un born then the living but here are their fire arm requirements

long guns handguns
Background checks required for private sales? No No
Firearm registration? No No
Assault weapon law? No No
Owner license required? No No Carry permits required? No No

Change all these to yes .... but we all know nothing 100% when you start with zero expectations you have poor results

Mississippi 4th in U.S. gun deaths: must be TV and Video games and nothing to do with household gun ownership rate of 54.3

The state with the highest per capita gun death rate in 2016 was Alaska, followed by Alabama. Each of these states has extremely lax gun violence prevention laws as well as a higher rate of gun ownership, VPC said. The state with the lowest gun death rate in the nation was Massachusetts, followed by New York. Each of these states has strong gun violence prevention laws and a lower rate of gun ownership,

Damn those pesky statistics showing laws help to reduce gun deaths not eliminate guns deaths ...

Scott you have my answer on how to prevention shooting deaths in that state

Do you have a solution? or do you think there is no problem to start with

Answer the question and stop deflecting.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

whats your answer to the same question ? Scott asked me since you dipped your toe into the water

Good answer
Critical thinker
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

but Mississippi passes strictest abortion law.. more protection for the un born then the living but here are their fire arm requirements

long guns handguns
Background checks required for private sales? No No
Firearm registration? No No
Assault weapon law? No No
Owner license required? No No Carry permits required? No No

Mississippi 4th in U.S. gun deaths: must be TV and Video games and nothing to do with household gun ownership rate of 54.3



Mississippi is #5 on the list of highest unemployment, #2 on Highest Obesity, #2 on Welfare and #6 on the worst states for Overall Mental Health

Maybe if these Crazy Fat %#!@ stopped s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g off the government teat and got a job they wouldn't be shooting each other. (somewhere an SJW's kitten just exploded)

I know this was my usual tongue in cheek sarcasm but it does speak to maybe a quality of life issue being an underlying factor as well. But we can't discuss that.

you guys are to funny asking for solutions to a problem you insist doesn't exist .. and then try to sell yourselves a honest brokers in the conversation.. who's only response to anything gun is "Shall not infringe"

but Mississippi passes strictest abortion law.. more protection for the un born then the living but here are their fire arm requirements

long guns handguns
Background checks required for private sales? No No
Firearm registration? No No
Assault weapon law? No No
Owner license required? No No Carry permits required? No No

Change all these to yes .... but we all know nothing 100% when you start with zero expectations you have poor results

Mississippi 4th in U.S. gun deaths: must be TV and Video games and nothing to do with household gun ownership rate of 54.3

The state with the highest per capita gun death rate in 2016 was Alaska, followed by Alabama. Each of these states has extremely lax gun violence prevention laws as well as a higher rate of gun ownership, VPC said. The state with the lowest gun death rate in the nation was Massachusetts, followed by New York. Each of these states has strong gun violence prevention laws and a lower rate of gun ownership,

Damn those pesky statistics showing laws help to reduce gun deaths not eliminate guns deaths ...

Scott you have my answer on how to prevention shooting deaths in that state

Do you have a solution? or do you think there is no problem to start with

No Wayne, you always insist that the honest people that have done nothing wrong give stuff up.

Funny how if you remove firearms the rate of death or injury by firearm goes down. If you remove cars the accident rate goes down too. Remove cell phones and I might not have had to dodge a teen with a car and an iphone the other day.

Now take your stats and do murders by firearm. All your stats include suicide - which is by far thew highest cause of gun deaths.

All your stats include suicide - which is by far thew highest cause of gun deaths.

Are you suggesting that there is politically motivated manipulation taking place? Get out of here...

you guys are to funny asking for solutions to a problem you insist doesn't exist when has anyone suggested that a problem does not exist? .. and then try to sell yourselves a honest brokers in the conversation.. who's only response to anything gun is "Shall not infringe" when was the last time anyone responded this way?

but Mississippi passes strictest abortion law.. more protection for the un born then the living but here are their fire arm requirements this is idiotic...can we start referring to leftists and the un dead?
it fits if you think about it :rotf2:

long guns handguns
Background checks required for private sales? No No
Firearm registration? No No
Assault weapon law? No No
Owner license required? No No Carry permits required? No No

Change all these to yes .... but we all know nothing 100% when you start with zero expectations you have poor results

Mississippi 4th in U.S. gun deaths you realize that someone has to be ..right?: must be TV and Video games and nothing to do with household gun ownership rate of 54.3 "gun deaths"... question..do you think that if you are shot you have a better chance of getting to a good hospital quickly and getting good treatment if you are in Mississippi or Massachusetts?"

The state with the highest per capita gun death rate in 2016 was Alaska, followed by Alabama. Each of these states has extremely lax gun violence prevention what exactly is a "gun violence prevention law"laws as well as a higher rate of gun ownership, VPC said. The state with the lowest gun death rate in the nation was Massachusetts, followed by New York.I'd repeat what I mentioned above Each of these states has strong gun violence prevention laws and a lower rate of gun ownership,

Damn those pesky statistics showing laws help to reduce gun deaths not eliminate guns deaths ... Maryland has the third or 4th strictest gun laws in the country, just had a school shooting and is home to the most dangerous city in america according to USA today recently...

Scott you have my answer on how to prevention shooting deaths in that state

Do you have a solution? or do you think there is no problem to start with

you completely ignored the question again, which simply was...what would you do...since YOU brought it up...that would prevent this little boy from losing his mind and getting a gun and shooting his sister....he could have thrown her out a window....would your "solution" be more restrictive access to windows for everyone in Mississippi?

you listed the same old thing...none of which addressed or would cure or "solve" the boy's anger or the negligence of the parent(s)

I'm curious to know what your "so my 1st idea is un expectable" may be...1st ideas and inclinations are usually the best...:)

BTW Wayne, I'm all for requiring a safe storage solution (gun safe for example).

It is required in some place and just makes sense.

BTW Wayne, I'm all for requiring a safe storage solution (gun safe for example).

It is required in some place and just makes sense.

it does make sense...how do you enforce this?

it does make sense...how do you enforce this?

When a nine year old walks in the bedroom and grabs a handgun and shoots his 13 year old sister in the back of the head you arrest the owner for improper storage. Kind of like the death penalty is supposed to be a deterrent to murder, it might deter a person from leaving the handgun where a child can access it.

When a nine year old walks in the bedroom and grabs a handgun and shoots his 13 year old sister in the back of the head you arrest the owner for improper storage. Kind of like the death penalty is supposed to be a deterrent to murder, it might deter a person from leaving the handgun where a child can access it.
The term is called “accessory to murder”
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

it does make sense...how do you enforce this?

It is only enforceable in the event something happens and then becomes an add on charge like so many other gun laws.
But at least there is a known rule about it and not just relying on common sense since we know that sure is lacking today.

It's pretty sad that in this state it seems like law abiding gun owners have to be paranoid about accidentally having one piece of empty .22 brass shell laying in a crevice somewhere and being in violation of ammo storage laws.

That is a very sad story of those kids, something is terribly wrong today when these things happen, if he used a hammer it would have been just as terrible. Long ago a kid did something similar to a sibling with a hammer after seeing Curly on the Three Stooges getting hit on the head by Moe, you can't think that video games have zero part in this thought process of a child of 9 years old. So the Sheriff is right to question all the facts. I don't see where he said let's blame video games. Just the same as the anti's blaming the NRA and lawful gun owners after a school shooting.

When a nine year old walks in the bedroom and grabs a handgun and shoots his 13 year old sister in the back of the head you arrest the owner for improper storage.totally agreeKind of like the death penalty is supposed to be a deterrent to murder, it "might"? deter a person from leaving the handgun where a child can access it.

that assumes that people who are dumb enough to leave loaded hand guns laying around where little children can access them are going to going to care that there is a law requiring a safe storage solution....

wait...I thought the death penalty is not a deterrent "A 2009 survey of criminologists revealed that over 88% believed the death penalty was NOT a deterrent to murder."

it does make sense...how do you enforce this?

Both of these are after the fact, then laws are broken, arrests made, and charges filed.

When a nine year old walks in the bedroom and grabs a handgun and shoots his 13 year old sister in the back of the head you arrest the owner for improper storage. Kind of like the death penalty is supposed to be a deterrent to murder, it might deter a person from leaving the handgun where a child can access it.

The term is called “accessory to murder”
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

The question is how do you enforce the requirement of someone having to lock up their weapons. Other than random spot-checks by the police (which will never happen), there really isn't a way.

If you want to fix the issue, find a way to fix stupidity and lack of common sense.

The question is how do you enforce the requirement of someone having to lock up their weapons. Other than random spot-checks by the police (which will never happen), there really isn't a way.

If you want to fix the issue, find a way to fix stupidity and lack of common sense.
No solution is 100% but if it's the law more people will comply simply because they don't want to be held liable. Plenty of options to protect weapons yet keep them available for home defense if needed.

No solution is 100% but if it's the law more people will comply simply because they don't want to be held liable.

you'd think they'd comply because they don't want their kids shooting each other...liability?...good grief

that assumes that people who are dumb enough to leave loaded hand guns laying around where little children can access them are going to going to care that there is a law requiring a safe storage solution....

wait...I thought the death penalty is not a deterrent "A 2009 survey of criminologists revealed that over 88% believed the death penalty was NOT a deterrent to murder."

Right, that is why I said "supposed to be a deterrent..." Even if it doesn't deter negligent behavior, the owner probably should be held responsible.

No solution is 100% but if it's the law more people will comply simply because they don't want to be held liable. Plenty of options to protect weapons yet keep them available for home defense if needed.

The question wasn't if it was a sound solution, I don't think anybody here is going to argue that it is smart to lock up guns when there are children around, the question was how do you enforce it?

The question wasn't if it was a sound solution, I don't think anybody here is going to argue that it is smart to lock up guns when there are children around, the question was how do you enforce it?

How do you enforce a requirement in a state that doesn't have any requirements to own a gun to start with ...

but Mississippi passes strictest abortion law! its madness

How do you enforce a requirement in a state that doesn't have any requirements to own a gun to start with ...

but Mississippi passes strictest abortion law! its madness

Then it's not a requirement, is it?

Again, how do you enforce that requirement in a state that actually HAS that requirement?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Then it's not a requirement, is it?

Again, how do you enforce that requirement in a state that actually HAS that requirement?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
You can’t enforce it in every case, like most public safety laws, seat belts for instance, you do so to affect common behavior. More people wear seatbelts now than before there was a law requiring their use and most people no longer need a law to make them.
It has saved lives, now airbags......
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You can’t enforce it in every case, like most public safety laws, seat belts for instance, you do so to affect common behavior. More people wear seatbelts now than before there was a law requiring their use and most people no longer need a law to make them.
It has saved lives, now airbags......
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Go beyond this. The culture change with seat belts means that today most people couldn't imagine not wearing a seat belt today.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Go beyond this. The culture change with seat belts means that today most people couldn't imagine not wearing a seat belt today.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
I intimated that but perhaps it was not clear.
I remember starting to drive once and one of my children screaming Stop
I said what is the matter she said I don’t have my seatbelt on
That was probably 20 years ago or so
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Go beyond this. The culture change with seat belts means that today most people couldn't imagine not wearing a seat belt today.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I don't think it's the same thing. Drivers have to go out and drive past cops every day, so many people have the incentive (disincentive?) to wear seat belts.

Isn't there already a law saying you can't leave guns out if little kids are around? Maybe not...

We fall so short of what we should be....so many stupid people out there.

Jim we all do things because we are pressured by society.
The groups you join reward you for correct behavior.
We as a society are a group and for hundreds of years have rewarded people for good behavior.
It’s important to our society that people fit into certain norms.
Laws are the rules that guide us down the road, not perfectly but it has worked for longer than other self guided governments. I’d like to see it continue
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I remember starting to drive once and one of my children screaming Stop
I said what is the matter she said I don’t have my seatbelt on
That was probably 20 years ago or so
This is exactly my point.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim we all do things because we are pressured by society.
The groups you join reward you for correct behavior.
We as a society are a group and for hundreds of years have rewarded people for good behavior.
It’s important to our society that people fit into certain norms.
Laws are the rules that guide us down the road, not perfectly but it has worked for longer than other self guided governments. I’d like to see it continue
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

there is so much here...maybe a weekend project

Jim we all do things because we are pressured by society.
The groups you join reward you for correct behavior.
We as a society are a group and for hundreds of years have rewarded people for good behavior.
It’s important to our society that people fit into certain norms.
Laws are the rules that guide us down the road, not perfectly but it has worked for longer than other self guided governments. I’d like to see it continue
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I agree with everything you said. But I will repeat my question...aren't there already laws (reckless endangerment, maybe?) which make it illegal to leave guns around where children can get them?

Some laws are effective (seat belt laws, as Spence mentioned, God knows how many lives they save), Some laws, for reasons I do not pretend to know, are not as effective.

So what law would you pass, which doesn't already exist, to prevent these things...and how would you enforce it?

So what law would you pass, which doesn't already exist, to prevent these things...and how would you enforce it?

clearly...you could start by banning uneducated white trash from owning any kind of firearm...that would go a long in solving many of the country's problems....enforce it with the death penalty...which would also serve as a deterrent...

Here you go
http://goal.org/masslawpages/storageinfo.html

clearly...you could start by banning uneducated white trash from owning any kind of firearm...that would go a long in solving many of the country's problems....enforce it with the death penalty...which would also serve as a deterrent...

I'm sure there are still a lot of southerners around who administered those literacy tests to Blacks. Maybe they can help.

I'm sure there are still a lot of southerners around who administered those literacy tests to Blacks. Maybe they can help.

Since you brought up the south, blacks, in a discussion about guns and the NRA...

How many high school students who walked out last week, how many of the kids on CNN every night calling for gun control, and how many of their history teachers...are aware of the fact that the NRA helped blacks who lived in the segregated south, by arming them after the racists took their guns? I bet those history teachers know when Stalin and Mao were born, but I bet they don't know that little historical tidbit.

Good point (if true). Too bad the NRA has gone off the deep end and has gotten so extreme.

Since you brought up the south, blacks, in a discussion about guns and the NRA...

How many high school students who walked out last week, how many of the kids on CNN every night calling for gun control, and how many of their history teachers...are aware of the fact that the NRA helped blacks who lived in the segregated south, by arming them after the racists took their guns? I bet those history teachers know when Stalin and Mao were born, but I bet they don't know that little historical tidbit.

Where you get that info? It seems like you might be promoting teaching of unsubstantiated or false claims. The things I find are more like:
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/article/2017/aug/24/ten-nra-and-gun-fact-checks/
The National Rifle Association was "founded by religious leaders who wanted to protect freed slaves from the Ku Klux Klan."

Our rating: Pants on Fire.

This claim was made in 2013 by Harry Alford, president and chief executive officer of the D.C.-based National Black Chamber of Commerce and was shared by the Milwaukee County Republican Party.

We found the NRA itself said it was formed by Union Civil War veterans to improve soldiers’ marksmanship. And we found no evidence that religious leaders founded the NRA to protect freed slaves from the KKK."

Even separate from the issue of the founding of the NRA, I can't find any info that says they helped slaves. Could be true, I just cant find anything on it.

Where you get that info? It seems like you might be promoting teaching of unsubstantiated or false claims. The things I find are more like:
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/article/2017/aug/24/ten-nra-and-gun-fact-checks/
The National Rifle Association was "founded by religious leaders who wanted to protect freed slaves from the Ku Klux Klan."

Our rating: Pants on Fire.

This claim was made in 2013 by Harry Alford, president and chief executive officer of the D.C.-based National Black Chamber of Commerce and was shared by the Milwaukee County Republican Party.

We found the NRA itself said it was formed by Union Civil War veterans to improve soldiers’ marksmanship. And we found no evidence that religious leaders founded the NRA to protect freed slaves from the KKK."

Even separate from the issue of the founding of the NRA, I can't find any info that says they helped slaves. Could be true, I just cant find anything on it.
I don’t think I sad anything about how it why it was founded. I said they helped blacks defend themselves. I didn’t know that was in dispute, I’ve seen a lot of blacks claim they got guns from the NRA. In any event, as Paul said, their mission statement is quite different today.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I don’t think I sad anything about how it why it was founded. I said they helped blacks defend themselves. I didn’t know that was in dispute, I’ve seen a lot of blacks claim they got guns from the NRA. In any event, as Paul said, their mission statement is quite different today.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Right. I pointed out that the only thing I could find was about a bogus claim about the founding of the nra., but I found nothing that even marginally supports your statement that the NRA helped blacks who had their guns taken by racists. You said history teachers know mao and Stalin, but not that tidbit. Where did you get that info? You put it out as fact. You specifically said "aware of the fact..." It is likely a bogus claim related to the false statement about the founding I referenced. Even if true it is irrelevant to the students who walked out 125 years later. Why do you think it is a fact?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Since you brought up the south, blacks, in a discussion about guns and the NRA...

How many high school students who walked out last week, how many of the kids on CNN every night calling for gun control, and how many of their history teachers...are aware of the fact that the NRA helped blacks who lived in the segregated south, by arming them after the racists took their guns? I bet those history teachers know when Stalin and Mao were born, but I bet they don't know that little historical tidbit.

Some NRA people perhaps did help (Spence level remote association ;) ) but not because they were NRA but because the Republicans, some affiliated with the nascent and generally unrelated NRA of the day, were trying to reduce the pressure on black's in the south after the Civil War. Shortly after the Civil War, blacks were able to vote and some went to Congress as representatives for their areas. The 1870s and post CW reconstruction were a severe period of upheaval.

Good point (if true). Too bad the NRA has gone off the deep end and has gotten so extreme.

How has the NRA gone off the deep end and gotten extreme? Do you feel that the ALCU should be disbanded due to their fervent support of first amendment rights?

Did the NRA cause these school shootings? Did NRA Members do the mass shooting?

Anyone boycotting the Patriots after Kraft loaned the team plane to fly kids down to the rally today?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Anyone boycotting the Patriots after Kraft loaned the team plane to fly kids down to the rally today?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device


Conflicted, he is flying people to promote their 1A rights at the expense of their 2A rights.

NRA is extreme, but it is their cause without compromise. I just think Kraft is just being compassionate in the aftermath of a national tragedy. Sometimes it has nothing to do with rights and more about being a human being with resources to help restore faith.He is a good man.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Excerpts from Wikipedia:

Robert Franklin Williams (February 26, 1925 – October 15, 1996) was an American civil rights leader and author best known for serving as president of the Monroe, North Carolina chapter of the NAACP in the 1950s and into 1961. He succeeded in integrating the local public library and swimming pool in Monroe. At a time of high racial tension and official abuses, Williams promoted armed black self-defense in the United States . . .Williams obtained a charter from the National Rifle Association and set up a rifle club to defend blacks in Jonesboro from Ku Klux Klan or other attackers . . . Alarmed at the threat to civil rights activists, Williams had applied to the National Rifle Association (NRA) for a charter for a local rifle club.[15] He called the Monroe Chapter of the NRA the Black Armed Guard; it was made up of about 50–60 men, including some veterans like him. They were determined to defend the local black community from racist attacks, a goal similar to that of the Deacons for Defense who established chapters in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama in 1964-1965.[16]
Newtown was the black residential area of Monroe. In the summer of 1957, there were rumors that the KKK was going to attack the house of Dr. Albert Perry, a practicing physician and vice-president of the Monroe NAACP. Williams and his men of the Armed Guard went to Perry's house to defend it, fortifying it with sandbags. When numerous KKK members appeared and shot from their cars, Williams and his followers returned the fire, driving them away.[17]
"After this clash the same city officials who said the Klan had a constitutional right to organize met in an emergency session and passed a city ordinance banning the Klan from Monroe without a special permit from the police chief."[14]
In Negroes with Guns, Williams writes:
"[R]acists consider themselves superior beings and are not willing to exchange their superior lives for our inferior ones. They are most vicious and violent when they can practice violence with impunity."[18] He wrote, "It has always been an accepted right of Americans, as the history of our Western states proves, that where the law is unable, or unwilling, to enforce order, the citizens can, and must act in self-defense against lawless violence."[

Oh so what he meant to say was a black man got an NRA charter so that black men could defend black people against the KKK. That clearly should be up there on highschool curriculum hierarchy with mao and Stalin.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Not sure this was what Jim was picturing... https://mobile.nytimes.com/1996/10/19/us/robert-f-williams-71-civil-rights-leader-and-revolutionary.html
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

NRA is extreme, but it is their cause without compromise. I just think Kraft is just being compassionate in the aftermath of a national tragedy. Sometimes it has nothing to do with rights and more about being a human being with resources to help restore faith.He is a good man.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device


Ohh, I agree, he is a good man. And we are mostly in alignment, though the thing about rights is they allow you to be an individual human being in your natural state, rather than being oppressed, which is the natural state of those that are controlled by others.

Anyone boycotting the Patriots after Kraft loaned the team plane to fly kids down to the rally today?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I thought it was a nice gesture...

the thing about rights is they allow you to be an individual human being in your natural state, rather than being oppressed, which is the natural state of those that are controlled by others.

lot's of confusion regarding the nature of rights here lately...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS

I'm sure there are still a lot of southerners around who administered those literacy tests to Blacks. Maybe they can help.



Since you brought up the south, blacks, in a discussion about guns and the NRA...



it's amusing that the two of you end up here so often...

How has the NRA gone off the deep end and gotten extreme?

http://time.com/4431356/nra-gun-control-history/
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I just think Kraft is just being compassionate in the aftermath of a national tragedy. Sometimes it has nothing to do with rights and more about being a human being with resources to help restore faith.He is a good man.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Except, he flew them to a protest, not to a memorial service. It was a great gesture. Was curious how the not one inch crowd takes it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Not sure you have demonstrated a point that contradicts my statement but do what makes you happy.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

How has the NRA gone off the deep end and gotten extreme?
Ever watch NRA TV?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device