This article speaks to exactly what is concerning me and what most of the GOP seems happy to ignore.

"But put it this way: If a president of the United States were to sketch out a secret, detailed plan to break up the Atlantic alliance, that plan would bear a striking resemblance to Trump’s behavior."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/10/opinion/g7-trump-quebec-trudeau.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

His behavior and remarks at the G-7 were just simply pathetic.

This article speaks to exactly what is concerning me and what most of the GOP seems happy to ignore.

"But put it this way: If a president of the United States were to sketch out a secret, detailed plan to break up the Atlantic alliance, that plan would bear a striking resemblance to Trump’s behavior."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/10/opinion/g7-trump-quebec-trudeau.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

His behavior and remarks at the G-7 were just simply pathetic.

oh great a New York Times editorial by a guy who's other article titles include.... :rotf3:

Trump’s Latest Lies — and His Media Machine
Trump Tries to Wreck America’s Alliances
Trump Tries to Destroy the West
Democrats are Running a Smart, Populist Campaign
Victories for the Left

and this is the best..

Democrats are the Party of Fiscal Responsibility :hihi:

We'll just call that Exhibit A.

oh great a New York Times editorial by a guy who's other article titles include.... :rotf3:

Trump’s Latest Lies — and His Media Machine
Trump Tries to Wreck America’s Alliances
Trump Tries to Destroy the West
Democrats are Running a Smart, Populist Campaign
Victories for the Left

and this is the best..

Democrats are the Party of Fiscal Responsibility :hihi:

No way to tell, absolutely no way to tell, if that reporter is a republican or a democrat.

That said, it would be nice if someone could rein Trump in just a little bit.

oh great a New York Times editorial by a guy who's other article titles include.... :rotf3:

Trump’s Latest Lies — and His Media Machine
Trump Tries to Wreck America’s Alliances
Trump Tries to Destroy the West
Democrats are Running a Smart, Populist Campaign
Victories for the Left

and this is the best..

Democrats are the Party of Fiscal Responsibility :hihi:

Here's another gem - "Americans Aren't Centrist On Economics - They're Deeply Progressive".

Sure, sure, just ask President Bernie Sanders.

Maybe a little less pointed paper on the changes we face
https://warontherocks.com/2018/01/reimagining-world-reflections-future-world-order/

He’s a #^&#^&#^&#^&bird. I stopped monitoring where he takes a dump.
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The White House also confirms that President Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un will hold a one-on-one meeting, with only translators present.


So Trump can tell us the Truth like his Canada G7
Trip

Trumps going to pave the way for his family's next big venture, going to make NK great again:).

More insight from liberal puppets....riveting.
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More insight from liberal puppets....riveting.
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Complicit
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Canada stands united
At least Trump can get one group of politicians to agree
https://youtu.be/Y6FEc1gc1Xo
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Canada stands united
At least Trump can get one group of politicians to agree
https://youtu.be/Y6FEc1gc1Xo
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Don’t worry, we will still have allies. Just like Petoria in family guy...


https://youtu.be/W-Cib0Z77sI
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America Alone
http://www.dw.com/en/european-nations-reject-trumps-call-to-readmit-russia-to-g7/a-44121851
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Here is the problem.

The Dems and a strong portion of the Media CONSISTENTLY trashed decent people like Romney yet promoted serial bad guys like Bill Clinton.

The Dems have moved further left - I mean Feinstein isn't progressive enough. Rhode Island isn't progressive enough. I was once a pro America old school Dem - there are not any more of them . That is not allowed in your Marxist Resistance.

You are not trust worthy. I hate Trump, didn't vote for him and yet I am more and more convinced he is better than Hillary.

Obama's FP was a complete and utter effing disaster. Everything he touched turned to crap, but people liked him.

I am not worried about Trump pushing the button, I am worried that this country is heading for divorce. 15 years ago? Not a chance. Now? We're getting where we may soon be able to see the Singularity.

I hate Trump, didn't vote for him and yet I am more and more convinced he is better than Hillary.




#me2

Trump Island
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Here is the problem.


I am not worried about Trump pushing the button, I am worried that this country is heading for divorce. 15 years ago? Not a chance. Now? We're getting where we may soon be able to see the Singularity.

So many of my conservative leaning friends feel this exact way, the few proglibs I know seem to have their collective heads in the sand waiting for their version libtopia.

Here is the problem.

The Dems and a strong portion of the Media CONSISTENTLY trashed decent people like Romney yet promoted serial bad guys like Bill Clinton.
I don't remember Romney running against Clinton. But, blame the media, it's always the media...

The Dems have moved further left - I mean Feinstein isn't progressive enough. Rhode Island isn't progressive enough. I was once a pro America old school Dem - there are not any more of them . That is not allowed in your Marxist Resistance.
The last 16 years of Dem presidents haven't really promoted that progressive of an agenda. I'm not sure most people even know what a real liberal looks like.

You are not trust worthy. I hate Trump, didn't vote for him and yet I am more and more convinced he is better than Hillary.
Not sure who the trustworthy remark is aimed at but considering we have likely the most dishonest and corrupt administration in US history it's pretty funny. I know that Hillary wouldn't be under Putin's thumb and alienating our vital partners.

Obama's FP was a complete and utter effing disaster. Everything he touched turned to crap, but people liked him.
Considering he inherited all of Bush's 'eff ups I think just gaining some sense of stability was a major accomplishment.

I am not worried about Trump pushing the button, I am worried that this country is heading for divorce. 15 years ago? Not a chance. Now? We're getting where we may soon be able to see the Singularity.
I'm concerned this country is starting to look more like a fascist regime than a representative democracy. People are so consumed with anti-Clinton or anti-Obama they're oblivious to fundamental changes happening right under their feet.

I don't remember Romney running against Clinton. But, blame the media, it's always the media...

I'll clarify: the media crucified Romney, remember binders full of competent women he would have in his administration if elected? Romeny was far from a perfect candidate but he was arguably the best person to run in the past decade.

Yet only recently, when politically inexpedient, did the media start to turn on Bill Clinton, who all along could have been could be a poster child for what to watch out for in the MeToo movement.

It is always MOST of the media walking lockstep with the left, so yes. For all practical purposes I would even like to Fox not be the Trumpswabber that they are but for all to present a more balanced, factual news system, but they don't.


The last 16 years of Dem presidents haven't really promoted that progressive of an agenda. I'm not sure most people even know what a real liberal looks like.

Classic liberal? Nahh, very few of those left. The politics of the Dem party have skewed progressive, and are skewing more so and IMO at a higher rate of the Reps going right - as was the claims for years.


Not sure who the trustworthy remark is aimed at but considering we have likely the most dishonest and corrupt administration in US history it's pretty funny. I know that Hillary wouldn't be under Putin's thumb and alienating our vital partners.

All the people that frankly pull the master lever, unwilling to compromise or discuss openly. All the people that said if Trump gets elected we're gonna die (yes, there is time still), net neutrality weregonnadie, tax reductions weregonnadie. Those only now shouting about the National Debt and annual deficits, weregonnadie





Considering he inherited all of Bush's 'eff ups I think just gaining some sense of stability was a major accomplishment.

Yep - and he effed up many of his own.


I'm concerned this country is starting to look more like a fascist regime than a representative democracy. People are so consumed with anti-Clinton or anti-Obama they're oblivious to fundamental changes happening right under their feet.

I'm concerned this country is looking more Orwellian, where if you do not toe the party line you will be the subject of a SJW 20 years of hate. That Western Democracy and Civilization is going to be sacrificed at the alter of the collective. The constant redefinition of words and meanings, of what is acceptable and not acceptable, to suit one side.

I am concerned that the open narrative of the left is to persecute the NRA and law abiding 2A supporting terrorists.

I am concerned that the open narrative of the left is to persecute the 1A and freedom of speech, even if it is vile.

I am concerned that the fundamental changes afoot (ahem, required) with the hard left that oppose merit, law, and decency.

Decency? Not much left in either side of the political arena.
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Decency? Not much left in either side of the political arena.
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True - yet both sides drive away from that and blame the other side

True - yet both sides drive away from that and blame the other side

Fox News blunder would be funny if it weren’t somehow telling.

“Regardless of what happens in that meeting, between the two dictators, what we are seeing right now, this is history," Huntsman said

When you have our POTUS alienating our allies, chumming up with our longest enemies, undermining our own justice departments and doing all he can do to make free press a joke in his bases eyes; well it’s a slip of the tongue or is it?
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This article speaks to exactly what is concerning me and what most of the GOP seems happy to ignore.

"But put it this way: If a president of the United States were to sketch out a secret, detailed plan to break up the Atlantic alliance, that plan would bear a striking resemblance to Trump’s behavior."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/10/opinion/g7-trump-quebec-trudeau.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

His behavior and remarks at the G-7 were just simply pathetic.

It wasn't the Western Alliance, as your author, Leonhardt, states, that won two World Wars. Russia was also a big factor in one win. And the defeated Germany and Italy were off-and-on part of the Alliance as well as a big factor in the "great things" created by the West. The Alliance fought against itself in real, destructive ways, unlike the hypothetical accusation Leonhardt makes against Trump. Yet that didn't destroy the Alliance.

And the highest standard of living was not created by the Alliance, as your author avers, but by the freedom of individual initiative and creativity that is a hallmark of Western Civilization.

He says it's impossible to understand what or how Trump thinks, yet he imposes his own idea on Trump's behavior as being that which would break up the alliance. Nice trick to come to an unwarranted opinion.

He calls Trump's dissatisfaction with the intricacies of the Alliance as an "outward hostility", thus framing it in terms of war, an attack to "destroy" the Alliance. That is not only ridiculous on its face, but he ignores that Trump has shown "outward" friendship to allies. So Leonhardt's lack of balance added to his hyperbole is more akin to a lie than to disingenuousness.

Your author rushes to the judgment that Trump wants to "discard" the allies and replace them with Russia. And that Trump would meddle in the domestic politics of other countries in order to install new governments. Yet this is the sort of meddling that the US and other Western Allies have done for decades, and as Obama tried to do in an Israeli election. Was the Alliance being discarded in those numerous instances of the past. If anything, Trump doesn't appear to be doing that, not even to NK where he talks of keeping Kim in power and helping to provide him with the kind of assistance that would bring NK into the Western sphere and provide those people with a decent standard of living. Is your author suggesting that Trump wants to replace our allies with NK?

Leonhardt gets into Trump's lies as evidence that he wants to destroy the Alliance--the alliance has been laced with a plenitude of lies within itself and within each allied country against their own people. Trump's supposed lies are like a teardrop compared to the lies within the alliance which have always flowed like diarrhetic BS.

He gets into Trump's character as if it is actually worlds apart different than the characters of past and present alliance leaders. There have been several doozies of them in the past (and present), so get off the snobby high horse of better-than-thou and get real. Their, and Trump's, character is not a threat to the Alliance.

According to Leonhardt, Trump "bathes" Putin and Kim Jong Un in praise (Oh really?--like little rocket man, or we have more and better nukes that work, opens US oil exploration and arms East Europe which threaten Russia's oil profits and military power, and punishing Russia's allies Syria and Iran). But Leonhardt takes no notice of Trump praising Western allies--again, a lack of balance which exposes his agenda of making Trump a destroyer rather than a dealer who disagrees about some things.

And Leonhardt's negative notion that Trump often accuses others of committing his own sins--COME ON!!! This trick is part and parcel the Progressive technique of divide and conquer. This is an age-old sleight of hand that has been practiced by humans forever, and by all of our Western Allies. This is supposed to destroy the Alliance??? This guy is full of something stinkier than chit. His article can do more to divide us than most anything that Trump does.

Then there is this gem from your author--the only explanation for "all of Trump's behavior is that he wants to destroy the Western Alliance." This is not mere delusion. It is out and out propaganda meant to destroy Trump. One might say that "the only explanation for writing this ridiculous article is that the author wants to destroy Trump."

Leonhardt is so into the anti-Trump bubble that he totally ignores the rise of populist, anti-establishment, anti-Progressive, sentiments in Europe which are resulting in larger and larger protests against what Progressivism is and has been doing to their culture and against their freedom.. There is a large and growing disgust with the EU policies that is far more destructive to the Alliance within Europe than anything that Trump does or says. European media minimizes or ignores the trending swerve to the political right. The Progressive Left has this self promoting myopia which thinks that if you pretend or proclaim that something that IS happening is not really happening if you say that it isn't.

He ends with a syrupy platitude: "They [Trumps actions and words] are a referendum on American ideals that are older than any of us." Yet it is those American ideals that are being or have been destroyed by the likes of Leonhardt and the Progressive Alliance.

The "great thing" which Western Civilization brought into political and philosophical consciousness was the essential role of the individual as the bedrock of its foundation. That was the new thing which diverted society from its entrenched collective and top down nature into the realm of individual freedom, responsibility, and creativity. And after centuries of struggle arrived at the American Revolution which enshrined individual rights against the power of the State.

Ever since then, the unique Constitution which protected those rights has been under attack by those who wish to impose the more academic and refined Marxist version of an Authoritarian State.

The Progressive Alliance, nurtured by thinkers like Leonhardt, is what is destroying the West. Not Donald J. Trump.

But he, and those of us here and in the Alliance, may set that Progressive project back awhile.

When you have our POTUS alienating our allies, chumming up with our longest enemies, undermining our own justice departments and doing all he can do to make free press a joke in his bases eyes; well it’s a slip of the tongue or is it?

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you talking about Obama?

I am concerned that the open narrative of the left is to persecute the NRA and law abiding 2A supporting terrorists.

I am concerned the Right has created laws and policys to insulate and promote the sale of guns and their makers refuse to acknowledge their negative impact on society via the NRA . hiding behind the 2a

I am concerned that the open narrative of the left is to persecute the 1A and freedom of speech, even if it is vile.

The right has again uses the 1A as an excuse to step on civility lie openly use political correctness as a rallying cry and aagin refuse all responsibility for the message

I am concerned that the fundamental changes afoot (ahem, required) with the hard left that oppose merit, law, and decency.

Merit of law and decency again the right has gone to war with both those ideas the current administration attacks both daily their party remains silent in response to theses actions ... yet went after Benghazi with out regard to Facts ignores the death of those killed in Niger attack or the Russian investigation as nothing burgers



If people think Trump is going to Save this country from its self good luck with that

I am concerned the Right has created laws and policys to insulate and promote the sale of guns

example?


The right has again uses the 1A as an excuse to step on civility lie openly use political correctness as a rallying cry

example?

Merit of law and decency again the right has gone to war with both those ideas

example?

If people think Trump is going to Save this country from its self good luck with that

who has said/suggested trump is going to save this country from itself?

I am concerned the Right has created laws and policys to insulate and promote the sale of guns and their makers refuse to acknowledge their negative impact on society via the NRA . hiding behind the 2a

The supporters of the 2A rarely create ANY laws, for the significant part they resist laws applied to them. The ones they do want, reciprocity and things to reduce impact on hearing are obliterated by the left. Here is a novel idea, enforce existing laws equally and see if the has an impact - rather than taking away constitutional rights.

The right has again uses the 1A as an excuse to step on civility lie openly use political correctness as a rallying cry and aagin refuse all responsibility for the message

No. The First Amendment protects your right and my right to say something, even if distasteful. You won't go to jail for what you say. But without the 1A, what if some bureaucrat decided it was their duty to regulate YOUR speech and YOUR freedom of expression. If you allow exceptions (or demand them) then you are censoring and it is a fast and slippery slope to some committee or Speech Kommisar deciding what you are allowed to say and to not say. And to be penalized for it. I hate Hate Speech. But if you allow some people to decide what is acceptable speach and what is not - you've lost your freedom.

Turn the tables, what if some Trump apparatchik decreed that you could not go to your Town Hall and voice something important to you (pick any subject)??


Merit of law and decency again the right has gone to war with both those ideas the current administration attacks both daily their party remains silent in response to theses actions ... yet went after Benghazi with out regard to Facts ignores the death of those killed in Niger attack or the Russian investigation as nothing burgers

Benghazi - that was an eff up of major proportion - I am not convinced it was unlawful.

Niger? Tongo Tongo? Yes - bad intel / planning / luck screwed up a mission which got soldiers killed. Where are you going with facts and mortality on this one? Green Berets helping indigenous forces fight wars on their soil, limiting American presence. Like Job#1 for Green Berets.

Russia Investigation is falling mostly along partisan lines. Sure wish it would come up with something definitive soon. Ain't seeing it yet. And you might be new here but I have been pretty skeptical of Trump being without guilt here.




If people think Trump is going to Save this country from its self good luck with that


No, he is a symptom of where we have been going.

I'll clarify: the media crucified Romney, remember binders full of competent women he would have in his administration if elected? Romeny was far from a perfect candidate but he was arguably the best person to run in the past decade.
Compared to the negative coverage of Obama? Hell, one story after another around repubs trying to slam his record.

Yet only recently, when politically inexpedient, did the media start to turn on Bill Clinton, who all along could have been could be a poster child for what to watch out for in the MeToo movement.
It's only more recently because we just had the metoo movement. The media hasn't changed...society has.

It is always MOST of the media walking lockstep with the left, so yes. For all practical purposes I would even like to Fox not be the Trumpswabber that they are but for all to present a more balanced, factual news system, but they don't.
"Most" of the media doesn't walk lockstep with the left. Right leaning media dominates local markets, radio and a good portion of the very popular bottom feeders online.

FoxNews is just RT these days, was never fair and balanced but 15 years ago it was quite a different network.



Classic liberal? Nahh, very few of those left. The politics of the Dem party have skewed progressive, and are skewing more so and IMO at a higher rate of the Reps going right - as was the claims for years.
I mean a serious progressive. There really aren't that many people who self describe as liberal. One thing you're seeing is traditionally progressive issues like LGBT rights, affordable healthcare etc...have become more mainstream as demographics shift.

All the people that frankly pull the master lever, unwilling to compromise or discuss openly. All the people that said if Trump gets elected we're gonna die (yes, there is time still), net neutrality weregonnadie, tax reductions weregonnadie. Those only now shouting about the National Debt and annual deficits, weregonnadie
Calling out terrible policy isn't announcing impending doom. As for unwillingness to compromise or discuss openly, look at how much worse things are in just the past 12 months.

I'm concerned this country is looking more Orwellian, where if you do not toe the party line you will be the subject of a SJW 20 years of hate. That Western Democracy and Civilization is going to be sacrificed at the alter of the collective. The constant redefinition of words and meanings, of what is acceptable and not acceptable, to suit one side.
Trumpists?

I am concerned that the open narrative of the left is to persecute the NRA and law abiding 2A supporting terrorists.
Actually most people just want reasonable gun laws.

I am concerned that the open narrative of the left is to persecute the 1A and freedom of speech, even if it is vile.

I am concerned that the fundamental changes afoot (ahem, required) with the hard left that oppose merit, law, and decency.
The problem I see is so much of what you ascribe to the left is now being actively undermined by Trump and the GOP. The Press is now the #1 enemy of the State, nepotism and abuse are the new normal, the FBI is controlled by the deep state and childish insults are a primary mode of communication.

Here's that evil liberal media hard at work :hihi:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/06/14/documentary-shows-trump-saluting-north-korean-general/?utm_term=.c2abf4437be4

Here's that evil liberal media hard at work :hihi:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/06/14/documentary-shows-trump-saluting-north-korean-general/?utm_term=.c2abf4437be4

Imagine the fun Faux news would have had with that if it was Pres Obama.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR View Post

I'll clarify: the media crucified Romney






Compared to the negative coverage of Obama?




Spence is trying his hand at comedy :bl:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR View Post

I'll clarify: the media crucified Romney





Spence is trying his hand at comedy :bl:


I know - I don't give up so much as say why bother ; )

I know - I don't give up so much as say why bother ; )
Read the Pew studies, the 2012 coverage was pretty comparable.

President Trump said on Friday that he wants "his people" to listen to him like North Korean leader Kim Jong Un's people listen to him.

"He’s the head of a country. And I mean, he is the strong head," Trump said of Kim in remarks from the White House north lawn to "Fox & Friends."

"Don’t let anyone think anything different. He speaks and his people sit up at attention. I want my people to do the same," Trump said.


lets hear it guys please tell us what he ment to say

President Trump said on Friday that he wants "his people" to listen to him like North Korean leader Kim Jong Un's people listen to him.

"He’s the head of a country. And I mean, he is the strong head," Trump said of Kim in remarks from the White House north lawn to "Fox & Friends."

"Don’t let anyone think anything different. He speaks and his people sit up at attention. I want my people to do the same," Trump said.


lets hear it guys please tell us what he ment to say
What's most disturbing about comments like this is that I don't think Trump is making them in a calculated way. I just don't think he has an understanding of history, zero empathy for anyone but himself, has an incredible lust for power and is completely tone deaf.

Sorry JohnR if wereallgunnadie but I've never seen anything like this in my lifetime. I did learn about it in history class.

What's most disturbing about comments like this is that I don't think Trump is making them in a calculated way. .

or possibly in a very calculating way that even you cannot grasp...

or possibly in a very calculating way that even you cannot grasp...
Sure, in a iwannabeadictator sort of calculation.

Sure, in a iwannabeadictator sort of calculation.

making up new words....very trumpian