I would truly like to know if it's a new thing that kids are being separated form their parents as a result of immigration enforcement, or if what's new is the liberal outrage.

Here is an article from the Huffington Post, heretofore not considered to be a right-wing rag. The article says that in 2013 alone, we deported more than 72,000 parents who claim they had kids born in the US.

Most of the deported parents had been convicted of a crime, but more than 10,000 had not. 10,000 families split up in one year, where no crime was alleged other than the immigration status.

If Trump is Hitler for separating kids from parents, where was the outrage in 2013? The article says Obama was getting some pressure not to split up families, but it didn't refer to Obama as Hitler, the left didn't go berserk.

Is there a meaningful distinction between what Obama did in 2013, and what Trump is doing now? In both cases, children were separated from parents, for the sole reason that the parents weren't legally allowed to be here.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/25/parents-deportation_n_5531552.html

Is there a meaningful distinction between what Obama did in 2013, and what Trump is doing now?
Read your article again.

Read your article again.

Well if that gripping analytical insight doesn't clarify things for you Jim, I don't know what else will

I would truly like to know if it's a new thing that kids are being separated form their parents as a result of immigration enforcement, or if what's new is the liberal outrage.

Here is an article from the Huffington Post, heretofore not considered to be a right-wing rag. The article says that in 2013 alone, we deported more than 72,000 parents who claim they had kids born in the US.

Most of the deported parents had been convicted of a crime, but more than 10,000 had not. 10,000 families split up in one year, where no crime was alleged other than the immigration status.

If Trump is Hitler for separating kids from parents, where was the outrage in 2013? The article says Obama was getting some pressure not to split up families, but it didn't refer to Obama as Hitler, the left didn't go berserk.

Is there a meaningful distinction between what Obama did in 2013, and what Trump is doing now? In both cases, children were separated from parents, for the sole reason that the parents weren't legally allowed to be here.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/25/parents-deportation_n_5531552.html
Since Sessions admitted the current administration changed the policy as a deterrent and Trump has said that they will continue until they get the result “a wall” and is using them as a political pawn, yes there is a difference.
The article says other things about the 10K that you don’t mention
I hear some rumblings that they may walk this back soon.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I didn't read the article but it is my understanding that children were not separated from the their parents like they are now. I read a 8 month child has been separated. I think it is an embarassment and shows no morals in using babies as pawns. Cory Lewendowski's attitude is indicative of the type of people in this admin.

That said, I don't disagree w/what Sessions said about amnesty a week or so ago in that it wasn't intented for spousal abuse for example. Unfortunately, with this admin. I think there is a racial element to this as well as many of their policies.

Well if that gripping analytical insight doesn't clarify things for you Jim, I don't know what else will

With the level of detail he included, it's impossible for me not to be persuaded by his argument.

You can't even ask an honest question these days, which is truly what I was trying to do. I just want to know what the difference is, and why the outrage didn't exist then.

I didn't read the article but it is my understanding that children were not separated from the their parents like they are now. I read a 8 month child has been separated. I think it is an embarassment and shows no morals in using babies as pawns. Cory Lewendowski's attitude is indicative of the type of people in this admin.

That said, I don't disagree w/what Sessions said about amnesty a week or so ago in that it wasn't intented for spousal abuse for example. Unfortunately, with this admin. I think there is a racial element to this as well as many of their policies.

"I didn't read the article but it is my understanding that children were not separated from the their parents like they are now. "

The article says that in 2013, 72,000 illegals who were already here, were separated from their kids, and deported. That's from The Huffington Post, so it's fair to assume it wasn't a hit piece on Obama. Maybe that's not exactly the same as separating kids who arrive with their parents at the border, but in both cases, kids and parents were forcibly separated.

"with this admin. I think there is a racial element to this as well as many of their policies"

Not sure about that.

Since Sessions admitted the current administration changed the policy as a deterrent and Trump has said that they will continue until they get the result “a wall” and is using them as a political pawn, yes there is a difference.
The article says other things about the 10K that you don’t mention
I hear some rumblings that they may walk this back soon.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"Since Sessions admitted the current administration changed the policy as a deterrent "

And Obama did it to families that were already here. So Obama's policy was designed to target people who were already here, Trump's policy is designed to target people trying to get in. I agree the goal is different. The result - kids being taken away from their parents - is the same, as far as I can tell. I am hearing it's wrong to take kids away from parents. Obama did that.

From what I read there is a severe labor shortage of skilled and mid level workers, which is only going to get worse. Isolation for the world and our neighbors isn’t going to solve it and for Trump to use kids as ransom to get his fing Wall isn’t going to help him support the 4% growth he predicts will happen.

I’m all for proper vetting, but this now has become just political BS and these kids are just pawns in his ongoing chess game.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Rumbling was correct.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

but in both cases, kids and parents were forcibly separated.
That's not what your article says.

I know - where was the coordinated outrage mob in 2013, 2014?

(BTW - I am against separating the families as I am against illegal immigration - fix immigration laws, enforce those laws, and allow more through the front door LEGALLY).


This outrage mob is the same coordinated bullet-point-knee-jerk-talking-points reaction that was the post Parkland Anti-NRA coordinated bullet-point-knee-jerk-talking-points. I wonder what August's coordinated bullet-point-knee-jerk-talking-point will be??

This outrage mob is the same coordinated bullet-point-knee-jerk-talking-points reaction that was the post Parkland Anti-NRA coordinated bullet-point-knee-jerk-talking-points. I wonder what August's coordinated bullet-point-knee-jerk-talking-point will be??
Yea, the Pope, Laura Bush, the entire United Methodist clergy...that mob?

I think if folks don't want to be separated from their kids they should not come here illegally.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

That's not what your article says.

“Children born in the U.S. are given automatic citizenship, regardless of their parents’ immigration status, and a 2013 report by Human Impact Partners estimated that 4.5 million U.S. citizen children have at least one parent who is undocumented. When a parent is deported, their U.S.-born children sometimes leave with them. But some stay in the U.S. with another parent or family member. Some children end up in U.S. foster care.”

This......and the title of the article
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Yea, the Pope, Laura Bush, the entire United Methodist clergy...that mob?




No the outrage mob - but come to think of it - I don't recall them screaming when Obama era rules were doing it - not like today.

I cracked up (well would have if the topic was less horrible) watching NBC playing the religious card today.

“Children born in the U.S. are given automatic citizenship, regardless of their parents’ immigration status, and a 2013 report by Human Impact Partners estimated that 4.5 million U.S. citizen children have at least one parent who is undocumented. When a parent is deported, their U.S.-born children sometimes leave with them. But some stay in the U.S. with another parent or family member. Some children end up in U.S. foster care.”

This......and the title of the article
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
So what you’re saying is the kids aren’t forceable separated and the parents are given a choice? They would have time to try and place kids with family? It also notes the US Gov would help with paperwork if the parent wanted to take the child with them.

Big, huge difference.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

No the outrage mob - but come to think of it - I don't recall them screaming when Obama era rules were doing it - not like today.
Because it wasn’t like today. Under Obama the policy wasn’t perfect but they were prioritizing deportations not weaponzing children.

Yeah, kids always trot off to foster care all smiles and sunshine
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

again facts matter

There is no federal law that stipulates that children and parents be separated at the border, no matter how families entered the United States. An increase in child detainees separated from parents stemmed directly from a change in enforcement policy repeatedly announced by Sessions in April and May 2018, under which adults (with or without children) are criminally prosecuted for attempting to enter the United States:


And now Trump created the issue(blamed others) and now he gives himself credit for fixing the issue he created

we didn't even separate kids in the Japanese interment camps ... no one is saying dont stop people crossing illegally or dont detain Them ... the argument that their parents are putting them in Danger is weak compared to where they came from.... They are taking huge risks to improve their children's future and their own.. You cant fault them for trying .. would any of us do any less if we were backed in a corner or in their shoes ???

It is our responsibility to protect our borders,you can't fault us for that. Discouraging people from attempting to enter illegally is in our best interests.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It is our responsibility to protect our borders,you can't fault us for that. Discouraging people from attempting to enter illegally is in our best interests.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Those Indians had the right idea back in the day, eh?
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Fire water
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

again facts matter

There is no federal law that stipulates that children and parents be separated at the border, no matter how families entered the United States.

There is no federal law that stipulates children and parents cannot be separated at the border.

An increase in child detainees separated from parents stemmed directly from a change in enforcement policy repeatedly announced by Sessions in April and May 2018, under which adults (with or without children) are criminally prosecuted for attempting to enter the United States:

AN INCREASE (meaning that it was done before at a lesser rate) was created by a change in enforcement policy (because past policy was not effective enough and there was a big rise in attempts to illegally enter).

And now Trump created the issue(blamed others) and now he gives himself credit for fixing the issue he created

No, he didn't create an "issue." The "issue" was manufactured by media hype trying to make Trump look evil. And the "issue" of large numbers of illegal immigrants existed long before Trump. The illegals themselves created that "issue." There was no serious, sincere, attempt to fix that "issue." Announcing a zero tolerance policy was a serious, sincere, attempt to let it be known that there would be harsh consequences to trying to illegally cross the border. Those who ignored that warning stirred up that old "issue." Schumer demanded that Trump fix the new hyped up issue with an executive order. So Trump did fix the optics "issue" with an executive order, but that ain't good enough for you. Nothing that Trump does is.

we didn't even separate kids in the Japanese interment camps

The whole idea of the Japanese internment camps was wrong. Comparing the prosecution of illegal immigrants to the internment of American citizens without due process, whether the children are separated or not, is stupid. But law breakers who are actually American citizens and are, even temporarily put in detention, are separated from their children--without a fuss from the media or the Democrats.

... no one is saying dont stop people crossing illegally or dont detain Them ... the argument that their parents are putting them in Danger is weak compared to where they came from.... They are taking huge risks to improve their children's future and their own.. You cant fault them for trying

I fault them for going about it the wrong way. And putting themselves and their children in danger while doing so, and disregarding what would happen at the border.

And if you agree that people should be stopped from crossing illegally and that they should be detained and sent back when they try, then what kind, nice, humane way would you do that? That is, what way that actually worked, that actually would deter them from trying?

.. would any of us do any less if we were backed in a corner or in their shoes ???

Well, going up against a zero tolerance policy is backing yourself and your kids into a corner. Not joining forces with the majority of people in your country in order to stop being oppressed by your government or your criminals is surely backing yourself into a corner. Expecting the rest of the world to fix your problems is backing yourself into a corner. Not seeking asylum in the first country you enter after exiting yours (into Mexico from rest of Latin America), breaking the asylum law, is backing yourself into a corner.

Joining millions to illegally enter a country, expecting open loving arms and the gift of education, healthcare, income, at the expense of that countries citizens, while refusing to join together with those millions to make a better life in your home country is not only backing yourself into a corner, but is depriving the rest of your fellow citizens whom you leave behind from creating a better life for all.

As you say, facts matter.

Because it wasn’t like today. Under Obama the policy wasn’t perfect but they were prioritizing deportations not weaponzing children.

The article I posted ( if you read it), says that in 2013 alone, if the 70,000 parents separated from their kids, more than 10,000 had not been accused of any crimes.

So how were they “prioritized” before being separated from their children? You are pathetically, desperately, trying to differentiate between the two.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

again facts matter

There is no federal law that stipulates that children and parents be separated at the border, no matter how families entered the United States. An increase in child detainees separated from parents stemmed directly from a change in enforcement policy repeatedly announced by Sessions in April and May 2018, under which adults (with or without children) are criminally prosecuted for attempting to enter the United States:


And now Trump created the issue(blamed others) and now he gives himself credit for fixing the issue he created

we didn't even separate kids in the Japanese interment camps ... no one is saying dont stop people crossing illegally or dont detain Them ... the argument that their parents are putting them in Danger is weak compared to where they came from.... They are taking huge risks to improve their children's future and their own.. You cant fault them for trying .. would any of us do any less if we were backed in a corner or in their shoes ???
You missed the point. The point was, under Obama kids were also separated from their parents, and people like you and Spence didn’t go berserk, Rachael Maddie didn’t sob on live TV. How come?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

The article I posted ( if you read it), says that in 2013 alone, if the 70,000 parents separated from their kids, more than 10,000 had not been accused of any crimes.

So how were they “prioritized” before being separated from their children? You are pathetically, desperately, trying to differentiate between the two.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
"Crimes" Jim. Being in the country illegally isn't a crime. There were other criteria being used to prioritize deportations as your article describes.

"Crimes" Jim. Being in the country illegally isn't a crime. There were other criteria being used to prioritize deportations as your article describes.

One. Last. Time.

The Huff Post article said that at least 10,000 people were deported, and separated from their children, for no reason other than being here illegally. The article says they "may have fit other criteria". That's good enough for you, to separate 10,000 kids from their families?

Here is my question - why is that OK, but not what Trump is currently doing? If Trump said the adults "may fit other arrest criteria", you expect us to believe that would satisfy you?

One. Last. Time.

The Huff Post article said that at least 10,000 people were deported, and separated from their children, for no reason other than being here illegally.

Here is my question - why is that OK, but not what Trump is currently doing?
They weren't forcibly separated from their children. Policy was to give the parents the option to take their kids or place them with family. Families at the border were charged with civil violations and sent back. It wasn't perfect but it was at least somewhat humane.

Trump is now treating all adults as criminals, forcibly removing babies and kids on the spot and shipping them to detention centers and banning media and politicians to even see what's going on with the children.

Even worse they're doing it for political reasons.

Even worse even worse the Administration lied about the protocol for the last two weeks before finally flipping and caving to pressure.

Situations are quite different Jim, that's why there's condemnation from both sides. We need bi-partisan immigration reform but you're not going to see it under Trump. It would undermine his Presidency.

One. Last. Time.

The Huff Post article said that at least 10,000 people were deported, and separated from their children, for no reason other than being here illegally. The article says they "may have fit other criteria". That's good enough for you, to separate 10,000 kids from their families?

Here is my question - why is that OK, but not what Trump is currently doing? If Trump said the adults "may fit other arrest criteria", you expect us to believe that would satisfy you?
One used the children as pawns admittedly for political reasons, claimed they had no choice, that others were making them do it and then said: Oh we can save the children with an executive order, look what I did, hooray for me.

Spence don't you know that Jim got the memo

Ronna McDaniel
✔
@GOPChairwoman
Complacency is our enemy. Anyone that does not embrace the @realDonaldTrump agenda of making America great again will be making a mistake.

9:22 PM - Jun 13, 2018
6,857
30.3K people are talking about this

One used the children as pawns admittedly for political reasons, claimed they had no choice, that others were making them do it and then said: Oh we can save the children with an executive order, look what I did, hooray for me.

I see...so it's not the act of separating families that's bad, it's the motive behind it. Naturally, according to you, Trump has a sinister motive and Obama had a humanitarian motive.

How does the motive of the sitting President, thousands of miles away, effect the trauma that the child goes through, when removed from his parents?

See, I keep hearing about how bad it is for kids to be separated from their parents - period. Unlike you, I'm not smart enough to know that being pulled from your parents, is only traumatic for a toddler, if the sitting president has sleazy motives.

Pete, just say it...just say publicly, "I can never criticize Obama, and I can never compliment Trump". we all know it.

Spence don't you know that Jim got the memo

Ronna McDaniel
✔
@GOPChairwoman
Complacency is our enemy. Anyone that does not embrace the @realDonaldTrump agenda of making America great again will be making a mistake.

9:22 PM - Jun 13, 2018
6,857
30.3K people are talking about this

Right, because I never criticize Trump.

This has very little to do with immigration - just look at what the usual suspects are posting here. Just anti-administration rhetoric to anything that happens even if Trump does what they wanted him to do. He caved and signed the EO and now they hate it. Sorry but it's hard to take your views seriously if you've never once approved of or given credit to something that this administration has done. There is no satisfying a "resistor" and many of us accept that fact.

just when you think they couldn't get any crazier the left goes full whacko...funny/sad...trump brings out the best/worst in them...hope the can survive the both terms :shocked:

"Crimes" Jim. Being in the country illegally isn't a crime. There were other criteria being used to prioritize deportations as your article describes.

Oh FFS, the fact they are here illegally makes it a crime. That's literally what the word Illegal refers to

il·le·gal
i(l)ˈlēɡəl/Submit
adjective
1.
contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law.
"illegal drugs"
synonyms: unlawful, illicit, illegitimate, criminal, felonious;

Oh FFS, the fact they are here illegally makes it a crime. That's literally what the word Illegal refers to

il·le·gal
i(l)ˈlēɡəl/Submit
adjective
1.
contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law.
"illegal drugs"
synonyms: unlawful, illicit, illegitimate, criminal, felonious;


they refuse to recognize the difference anymore...

This has very little to do with immigration - just look at what the usual suspects are posting here. Just anti-administration rhetoric to anything that happens even if Trump does what they wanted him to do. He caved and signed the EO and now they hate it. Sorry but it's hard to take your views seriously if you've never once approved of or given credit to something that this administration has done. There is no satisfying a "resistor" and many of us accept that fact.
No, Dennis it is not that Trump has never done anything good. It is that the things he is successful at he almost always claims to be some superlative or another, i.e. the greatest, most ever, whatever and that makes it hard to agree.
You've fished with guys like that haven't you? Sometimes they even catch a fish.
Justifying the present by looking at the past is never a good idea.
If we want to look at what former presidents did perhaps Herbert Hoover might be a good one to look at and see what he did with the Mexican Repatriation. It's not as bad as that.

Oh FFS, the fact they are here illegally makes it a crime. That's literally what the word Illegal refers to

il·le·gal
i(l)ˈlēɡəl/Submit
adjective
1.
contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law.
"illegal drugs"
synonyms: unlawful, illicit, illegitimate, criminal, felonious;
A civil violation is contrary to or forbidden by law. Makes it illegal doesn't make it crime. It's not a crime to be in the US as an undocumented immigrant.

It's not a crime to be in the US as an undocumented immigrant.

IT IS ALL WRONG!!!

https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/24/politics/undocumented-immigrants-not-necessarily-criminal/index.html


Under federal law, it is a crime for ANYONE to enter into the US without the approval of an immigration officer.....

....roughly 45% of undocumented immigrants originally entered the US legally, but then remained in the country without authorization after their visas had expired. The penalty for this type of violation of immigration law is DEPORTATION, and according to the ACLU.

If, however, an undocumented immigrant is deported and then returns to the US without permission, then that "illegal re-entry" constitutes a FEDERAL OFFENSE with different tiers of accompanying prison time.

they refuse to recognize the difference anymore...

And this is the singular issue that got him elected. The liberals still haven't learned, they aren't capable of learning, that they are on the losing side of this issue in much of the country. All they see is future reliable votes and a chance to turn TX blue.

I want better conditions for these people. I also want a wall, for the same exact reason why we all lock our doors at night. Easy to be in favor of open borders in New England, but our fellow citizens who live along the border, are entitled to a sense of security as well.

Trump may come out of this, as usual, looking like the winner, he can claim that he inherited this policy (or at least the foundations of it) in laws passed by previous administrations, and he, unlike Obama, cared enough to stop it. Maybe that was his plan all along, he's capable of that.

IT IS ALL WRONG!!!

https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/24/politics/undocumented-immigrants-not-necessarily-criminal/index.html


Under federal law, it is a crime for ANYONE to enter into the US without the approval of an immigration officer.....

....roughly 45% of undocumented immigrants originally entered the US legally, but then remained in the country without authorization after their visas had expired. The penalty for this type of violation of immigration law is DEPORTATION, and according to the ACLU.

If, however, an undocumented immigrant is deported and then returns to the US without permission, then that "illegal re-entry" constitutes a FEDERAL OFFENSE with different tiers of accompanying prison time.

That's not Reeeeaaaalllyyyyyyyyyy what it means. you're just taking it out of context.

read it again

That's not what it says

RACIST!!!

(just thought I'd get ahead of the game and save a page or so worth of posts)

That's not Reeeeaaaalllyyyyyyyyyy what it means. you're just taking it out of context.

read it again

That's not what it says

RACIST!!!

(just thought I'd get ahead of the game and save a page or so worth of posts)

funny that the CNN conclusion after all that is....." being here illegally may not necessarily be a crime".....that's like saying robbing a bank is a crime but spending the money you stole from the bank may not necessarily be a crime....

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/factcheck/did-the-obama-administration-separate-families/ar-AAyVJJE?li=BBnb7Kz


Did the Obama Administration Separate Families?

In defending its “zero tolerance” border policy that has caused the separation of families, the Trump administration has argued that the Obama and Bush administrations did this too. That’s misleading. Experts say there were some separations under previous administrations, but no blanket policy to prosecute parents and, therefore, separate them from their children.

“Bush and Obama did not have policies that resulted in the mass separation of parents and children like we’re seeing under the current administration,” Sarah Pierce, a policy analyst with the Migration Policy Institute, told us.

Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen said at a June 18 press briefing: “The Obama administration, the Bush administration all separated families. … They did — their rate was less than ours, but they absolutely did do this. This is not new.”

Nielsen went on to explain that there is indeed something new, as we wrote in another article on this topic. Under a “zero tolerance policy” on illegal immigration announced by Attorney General Jeff Sessions in early April, the administration is now referring all illegal border crossings for criminal prosecution. By doing that, parents have been separated from their children, because children can’t be held in detention facilities for adults.

DHS told us that 2,342 children were separated from their parents between May 5 and June 9.

But DHS couldn’t provide any statistics on how many children may have been separated from their parents under the Obama administration.

Instead, when we asked, it pointed to numbers that show 21 percent of apprehended adults were referred for prosecution under President Barack Obama. From fiscal year 2010 to fiscal 2016, there were 2,362,966 adults apprehended illegally crossing the Southern border, and 492,970 were referred for prosecution, those figures show. But that doesn’t tell us anything about how many children may have been separated from their parents under Obama.

And we don’t have such statistics to compare the past to the present.

“We have not seen any data out of the current or prior administration on how many cases that were prosecuted were individuals who arrived with minors,” Theresa Cardinal Brown, director of immigration and cross-border policy at the Bipartisan Policy Center, told us in an email. “So we cannot make any guesses or assumptions about how many separations based on prosecution there were or are.”

Brown said that even though DHS says 2,342 children have been separated from their parents in about one month, we don’t know what percentage of those cases are due to prosecutions for illegal crossings, and how many are due to other policies that would require separations — such as suspicion of trafficking, another outstanding warrant or insufficient proof of a family relationship.

We asked DHS if it would provide such a breakdown, but we haven’t received a response.

MPI’s Pierce said that the likely reason data aren’t available on child separations under previous administrations is because it was done in “really limited circumstances” such as suspicion of trafficking or other fraud.

“Previous administrations used family detention facilities, allowing the whole family to stay together while awaiting their deportation case in immigration court, or alternatives to detention, which required families to be tracked but released from custody to await their court date,” Brown and her co-author, Tim O’Shea, wrote in an explainer piece for the Bipartisan Policy Center’s website. “Some children may have been separated from the adults they entered with, in cases where the family relationship could not be established, child trafficking was suspected, or there were not sufficient family detention facilities available. … However, the zero-tolerance policy is the first time that a policy resulting in separation is being applied across the board.”

Jeh Johnson, DHS secretary under the Obama administration, told NPR earlier this month that he couldn’t say that family separations “never happened” during his tenure. “There may have been some exigent situation, some emergency. There may have been some doubt about whether the adult accompanying the child was in fact the parent of the child. I can’t say it never happened but not as a matter of policy or practice. It’s not something that I could ask our Border Patrol or our immigration enforcement personnel to do,” Johnson said.

The Obama administration faced a surge of unaccompanied children from Central America trying to cross the border in 2014. Cecilia Muñoz, director of the Obama administration’s Domestic Policy Council, told the New York Times this month that a multi-agency team was considering “every possible idea” at the time, including separating families. “I do remember looking at each other like, ‘We’re not going to do this, are we?’ We spent five minutes thinking it through and concluded that it was a bad idea,” the Times quoted Muñoz saying. “The morality of it was clear — that’s not who we are.”

Brown told us that while the Obama administration “did separate some families,” it also tried to detain families together. In 2016, a court ruling limited how long children with their parents could be in family detention centers. That ruling confirmed that a 1997 settlement applied to both unaccompanied and accompanied minors, as we’ve explained before.

“At that point,” Brown said, “family detention dwindled and most families were released into the US, either on their own with a notice to appear or under Alternatives to Detention, which could be an ankle bracelet or a supervised monitoring provision where they had to check in with ICE regularly until their immigration court hearing.”

On June 20, President Donald Trump signed an executive order directing Nielsen to keep families in custody together “during the pendency of any criminal improper entry or immigration proceedings involving their members” at least “to the extent permitted by law and subject to the availability of appropriations.”

yawn....

read it again

That's not what it says


(just thought I'd get ahead of the game and save a page or so worth of posts)

it's pretty interesting reading...

title- "Are undocumented immigrants committing a crime? Not necessarily"

conclusion- "So although there are more than 11 million unauthorized immigrants living in the US, they haven't all committed a crime just by being in the country."

if you came on a work visa...you were "documented"....if you snuck across the border...you were not "documented"....if you overstay your visa you are up for deportation...if you snuck across the border I guess you just get to stay

funny that the CNN conclusion after all that is....." being here illegally may not necessarily be a crime".....that's like saying robbing a bank is a crime but spending the money you stole from the bank may not necessarily be a crime....

That’s what the law says...sorry. You guys should read it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

This has very little to do with immigration - just look at what the usual suspects are posting here. Seems like the vast majority of threads here are started by right leaning folks - I guess the usual suspects?Just anti-administration rhetoric to anything that happens even if Trump does what they wanted him to do. So if the vast majoriy of threads are started by right leaning folks, I guess you'd prefer no one to have an opposing view. He caved and signed the EO and now they hate it. Sorry but it's hard to take your views seriously if you've never once approved of or given credit to something that this administration has done. There is no satisfying a "resistor" and many of us accept that fact.

If I couldn't stand to read 2 sides to an arguement, I wouldn't come here.

We prob. should go back to the really important stuff that used to be discussed here - if brown suits where inappropriate for the WH or putting someone's shoes on a desk was wrong.

If I couldn't stand to read 2 sides to an arguement, I wouldn't come here.

We prob. should go back to the really important stuff that used to be discussed here - if brown suits where inappropriate for the WH or putting someone's shoes on a desk was wrong.
How about why some people can’t fact check anything they post?
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Why does Trump keep claiming that Democrats in whole or part want open borders?
Not that a blatant lie should upset anyone.
Is he confusing them with Libertarians?
https://www.lp.org/issues/immigration/
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Why does Trump keep claiming that Democrats in whole or part want open borders?
Not that a blatant lie should upset anyone.
Is he confusing them with Libertarians?
https://www.lp.org/issues/immigration/
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BC lying is at the core of his soul. that is who he is.

This has very little to do with immigration - just look at what the usual suspects are posting here. Seems like the vast majority of threads here are started by right leaning folks - I guess the usual suspects?Just anti-administration rhetoric to anything that happens even if Trump does what they wanted him to do. So if the vast majoriy of threads are started by right leaning folks, I guess you'd prefer no one to have an opposing view. He caved and signed the EO and now they hate it. Sorry but it's hard to take your views seriously if you've never once approved of or given credit to something that this administration has done. There is no satisfying a "resistor" and many of us accept that fact.


I know, look at all these Right leaning kooks that keep starting threads.

Spence is right, we should spend more time fact checking.

Why does Trump keep claiming that Democrats in whole or part want open borders?

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hello.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post

It's not a crime to be in the US as an undocumented immigrant.

I know, look at all these Right leaning kooks that keep starting threads.

Spence is right, we should spend more time fact checking.

:rotf3: Look at the rest of the front page. Or the 2nd page. JohnR isn't right leaning?

I didn't use the word kooks - you did. I did say "vast majority". Is that what bothered you enough to reply?

:rotf3: Look at the rest of the front page. Or the 2nd page. JohnR isn't right leaning? radical centrist

I didn't use the word kooks - you did. I did say "vast majority". Is that what bothered you enough to reply?

"vast right wing conspiracy majority"

If I couldn't stand to read 2 sides to an arguement, I wouldn't come here.

We prob. should go back to the really important stuff that used to be discussed here - if brown suits where inappropriate for the WH or putting someone's shoes on a desk was wrong.

Not what I meant - Other points of view are important and I want to read them. But as a general rule I find that Jim, myself, and others with more conservative views tend to be more understanding of the liberal side views than vice versa. I just can't recall anyone here who is left leaning ever commend an action by the current administration. My father always told me there will always be people "Who would complain if they were hung with a brand new rope", it kind of reminds me of the anti-Trump movement. I just find that many of you will not give the current president or administration a fair shake.

:rotf3: Look at the rest of the front page. Or the 2nd page. JohnR isn't right leaning?


Page 2

30 posts total

15 started by the #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s
9 Started by the Wingnuts
4 Started by the Radical Centrists
2 Started by the Dangles Party (equal opportunity Ball Buster)

Well, going up against a zero tolerance policy is backing yourself and your kids into a corner. Not joining forces with the majority of people in your country in order to stop being oppressed by your government or your criminals is surely backing yourself into a corner. Expecting the rest of the world to fix your problems is backing yourself into a corner. Not seeking asylum in the first country you enter after exiting yours (into Mexico from rest of Latin America), breaking the asylum law, is backing yourself into a corner.

Joining millions to illegally enter a country, expecting open loving arms and the gift of education, healthcare, income, at the expense of that countries citizens, while refusing to join together with those millions to make a better life in your home country is not only backing yourself into a corner, but is depriving the rest of your fellow citizens whom you leave behind from creating a better life for all.

As you say, facts matter.

you do live in a fantasy world .... and act as if this immigration thing started yesterday

joining forces with the majority of people in your country in order to stop being oppressed by your government or your criminals..... Expecting the rest of the world to fix your problems refusing to join together with those millions to make a better life in your home country

Funny you use the same verbiage to describe the US Government

Remember Conservatives (Dem and Rep) want you to think things through and maybe see the light, and if not Ohhh Well. Hard Left requires your complete submission physically and mentally.



:rotf3: Look at the rest of the front page. Or the 2nd page. JohnR isn't right leaning?

I didn't use the word kooks - you did. I did say "vast majority". Is that what bothered you enough to reply?


I have generally been a middle road more conservative Dem but those don't exist anymore so I am now the Radical Independent ; )


I even ever-so-briefly dipped a toe into maybe going progressive as some of my friends had until I saw the landscape and said eff that, all y'all are effing nuts ; )


Page 2

30 posts total

15 started by the #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s
9 Started by the Wingnuts
4 Started by the Radical Centrists
2 Started by the Dangles Party (equal opportunity Ball Buster)

:rotf2:

Page 2

30 posts total

15 started by the #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s
9 Started by the Wingnuts
4 Started by the Radical Centrists
2 Started by the Dangles Party (equal opportunity Ball Buster)

DANGLES for PRESIDENT!

Not what I meant - Other points of view are important and I want to read them. But as a general rule I find that Jim, myself, and others with more conservative views tend to be more understanding of the liberal side views than vice versa. I just can't recall anyone here who is left leaning ever commend an action by the current administration. My father always told me there will always be people "Who would complain if they were hung with a brand new rope", it kind of reminds me of the anti-Trump movement. I just find that many of you will not give the current president or administration a fair shake.


"I just find that many of you will not give the current president or administration a fair shake." guess you dont recall the past 8 years and what actions warrant being commended his Behavior he's treatment of others his Name calling... its hard to find a praise worthy thing... Honestly PS when the last time you saw him with his young son

DANGLES for PRESIDENT!




Still Better than Hillary :happy: :happy: :happy: :happy:

Hey Dangles - where ya keep ya Email Server?

hello.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post

It's not a crime to be in the US as an undocumented immigrant.
That doesn't mean they want open borders. I'm just telling you what current law is.

I just can't recall anyone here who is left leaning ever commend an action by the current administration. My father always told me there will always be people "Who would complain if they were hung with a brand new rope", it kind of reminds me of the anti-Trump movement. I just find that many of you will not give the current president or administration a fair shake.
I pay pretty close attention and can't think of anything significant worth commending. Combine that with the pathological dishonesty, childish tantrums, rampant corruption etc... etc... and I'm not inclined to give Trump the benefit of doubt.

you do live in a fantasy world .... and act as if this immigration thing started yesterday

joining forces with the majority of people in your country in order to stop being oppressed by your government or your criminals..... Expecting the rest of the world to fix your problems refusing to join together with those millions to make a better life in your home country

Funny you use the same verbiage to describe the US Government

Funny, you claim that facts matter. The only facts in this post by you are those by me that you quoted.

The rest of your post is the fantasy world you live in.

That doesn't mean they want open borders. I'm just telling you what current law is.

Right. The left wants to let certain people come in through the back door, and proud of it.

I am more down the middle than most of you wingnuts I can tell you that. Nobody recalls me beating up Obama on a regular basis, I took my medicine unlike the baby tantrums we see a constant flow of on this board.
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I am more down the middle than most of you wingnuts I can tell you that. Nobody recalls me beating up Obama on a regular basis, I took my medicine unlike the baby tantrums we see a constant flow of on this board.
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Well isn't that precious.

Isn't it the responsibility of the people who legally reside in a country to make that country what it is? We don't seem to approve of our country meddling in the affairs of other countries. We don't believe in nation building. How is it that the U.S. becomes the go to place for people who don't like life in their country? Aren't we meddling in the affairs of other countries if we keep their citizens who do not formally and legally immigrate here instead of sending them back?

If a country is a #^&#^&#^&#^&hole, is it the responsibility of the U.S. to clean that up for some people, or is it the responsibility of those who populate the country to clean it up themselves? We had our revolution, as have other countries such as those in Eastern Europe who threw off the Soviet shackles. As did various countries in Africa and Asia. As did nations and people throughout history. And as did some of those various countries in Middle and South America who liberated themselves from European domination and are now dominated by corruption of their own making and from which now come our millions of illegal immigrants.

And where is the great and powerful United Nations? Isn't it supposed to make the world community a safe place for everyone? It likes to condemn Israel on a regular basis. Or send troops every now and then into various places like Africa or Bosnia to stop various genocides or horrible treatment of women and children.

Or are some of us comfortable in using women and children "immigrants" as political pawns? Of course we are. And the approving running-dog media lackeys will hype it to help their political cronies who don't want to stop the flow of illegals while, in the meantime, the so-called third world is awash in oppressed people, rapes, murders, poverty, genocides (e.g. South Africa and Christians in the Middle East) that are too redundant or politically inexpedient to report on. But rather to give us the expedient lies like there aren't any Muslim no go zones in various European countries, or not report on immigrant riots and rapes and murders by Muslims in various European cities and keep it rather quiet when the word finally gets out. Or won't give much covering of the shift to the right in Europe due precisely to the Progressive immigration policies and what they are doing to the indigenous culture. Giving all of that its due reportage might weaken the Progressive immigration ideology here in the U.S.

But, to a lot of us here, that is all becoming apparent. That phoniness in order to protect and promote the Progressive geo-political ideology is being exposed by its own overconfident, more in-your-face contradictory and often ridiculous rhetoric, policies, and outright attacks on speech, religion, and constitutional rights.

Hence, Donald Trump.

I pay pretty close attention and can't think of anything significant worth commending. .

You work in Finance, and you se nothing worth commending.

Lowest black unemployment ever?
Neil Gorsich
Lowest unemployment in, what, 17 years?
stock market doing well

None of those are worth commending? I guess none are really reasons to cheer, or if they are, it's all Obama's doing?

What fox news thinks of separating children

On Friday, "Fox & Friends" co-host Brian Kilmeade took heat for saying that migrant children "aren't our kids."

"Like it or not, these are not our kids," he said. "Show them compassion, but it's not like he's doing this to the people of Idaho or Texas. These are people from another country."

Kilmeade argued that Americans were treating migrant children as if they are more important than "people in our country who pay taxes and have needs as well."
Fox News contributor Rachel Campos-Duffy on Friday defended the detention centers by saying "some African-Americans" told her the conditions are better than where they were raised.

"The detention centers are far safer than the journey that these children just came on," she said. "I spoke to some African-Americans who say, 'Gosh, the conditions of the detention centers are better than some of the projects that I grew up in.' "

Laura Ingraham's Fox News program she said the child migrant detention centers were "essentially summer camp."

Good old republican family values on display MAGA

"I just find that many of you will not give the current president or administration a fair shake." guess you dont recall the past 8 years and what actions warrant being commended his Behavior he's treatment of others his Name calling... its hard to find a praise worthy thing... Honestly PS when the last time you saw him with his young son

I gave Obama credit all the time for fixing the economy and bombing terrorists. They are all crappy fathers, none of them have any time to spend with their kids.
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What fox news thinks of separating children

On Friday, "Fox & Friends" co-host Brian Kilmeade took heat for saying that migrant children "aren't our kids."

"Like it or not, these are not our kids," he said. "Show them compassion, but it's not like he's doing this to the people of Idaho or Texas. These are people from another country."

Kilmeade argued that Americans were treating migrant children as if they are more important than "people in our country who pay taxes and have needs as well."
Fox News contributor Rachel Campos-Duffy on Friday defended the detention centers by saying "some African-Americans" told her the conditions are better than where they were raised.

"The detention centers are far safer than the journey that these children just came on," she said. "I spoke to some African-Americans who say, 'Gosh, the conditions of the detention centers are better than some of the projects that I grew up in.' "

Laura Ingraham's Fox News program she said the child migrant detention centers were "essentially summer camp."

Good old republican family values on display MAGA

And what did you have to say when Obama was doing it? Zip. How come?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

What fox news thinks of separating children

On Friday, "Fox & Friends" co-host Brian Kilmeade took heat for saying that migrant children "aren't our kids."

"Like it or not, these are not our kids," he said. "Show them compassion, but it's not like he's doing this to the people of Idaho or Texas. These are people from another country."

Kilmeade argued that Americans were treating migrant children as if they are more important than "people in our country who pay taxes and have needs as well."
Fox News contributor Rachel Campos-Duffy on Friday defended the detention centers by saying "some African-Americans" told her the conditions are better than where they were raised.

"The detention centers are far safer than the journey that these children just came on," she said. "I spoke to some African-Americans who say, 'Gosh, the conditions of the detention centers are better than some of the projects that I grew up in.' "

Laura Ingraham's Fox News program she said the child migrant detention centers were "essentially summer camp."

Good old republican family values on display MAGA

I don't know what your version of family values is. I don't know if you even have a version--if you think such values are nonsense.

I don't know if Republicans have a new version, if they have discarded or modified their old ones in order to please the current post modern sexual and gender "values" so that they can get some of their votes.

But, as far as I can remember, the Good old American family values required adherence to the law. They didn't include encouraging other families to act illegally. They demanded loyalty to the Republic, not a welcome mat for cultural and political invasion--not a means to demographically change the nature of the society in which they invested their lives, their honor, and their fortunes.

And what did you have to say when Obama was doing it? Zip. How come?
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Jim, you keep saying this. Obama didn’t use immigration as a racist wedge issue. I’ve never in my life seen a US president dehumanize another people with blatant lies for political gain like this. It’s not just that the policy is different, the entire agenda is different.

America isn’t perfect but we’re slipping into that space where our actions are betraying who we are. We’ve been here before...it’s time to wake up.
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Jim, you keep saying this. Obama didn’t use immigration as a racist wedge issue.

What kind of issue did he use it for?

I’ve never in my life seen a US president dehumanize another people with blatant lies for political gain like this.

It's not nice to call MS-13 animals, but . . . oh well, Trump says stuff.

It’s not just that the policy is different, the entire agenda is different.

Thank God!!

America isn’t perfect but we’re slipping into that space where our actions are betraying who we are. We’ve been here before...it’s time to wake up.
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Yeah, Peter Fonda, Kathy Griffin, Antifa, Black lives matter, Bill Maher (We need a recession), Corrupt FBI, highly biased mainstream media, constant accusations of conservatives being racist, racist, racist, homophobes, anti-women, deplorable, and a bunch of similar stuff . . , yeah, your actions are betraying who you are.

And yeah, we've been there before . . . Jane Fonda, the Weathermen, campus radicals, Black Panthers, Symbionese Liberation Army, Che Guevara as left's hero, American left's support of Communism almost from its start and heavily so during FDR Administration as well as support from America's leading academics and mainstream media such as the NYT.

Yeah we've been there before and it's time to wake up.

Jim, you keep saying this. Obama didn’t use immigration as a racist wedge issue. I’ve never in my life seen a US president dehumanize another people with blatant lies for political gain like this. It’s not just that the policy is different, the entire agenda is different.

America isn’t perfect but we’re slipping into that space where our actions are betraying who we are. We’ve been here before...it’s time to wake up.
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It's not what you say,its how you say it,
It's not what you do,it's how you do it.
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Perhaps they should microchip Immigrants or just tattoo numbers on their forearms.
That would solve the immigration problem.
Satire in case you wondered, though I fear some might have that view
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Perhaps they should microchip Immigrants or just tattoo numbers on their forearms.
That would solve the immigration problem.
Satire in case you wondered, though I fear some might have that view
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If they are illegal, deporting them would be sufficient.

If they are illegal, deporting them would be sufficient.


And they haven't been getting deported before Trump?


It’s not just that the policy is different, the entire agenda is different.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

exactly my point as well

some comments from His Base

The US Military can have the Southern Border totally sealed off in a month.
Nothing in or out along the Southern Border. Unless its Invaders from South of the Border being dropped into Old Mexico.

And Trump should order the Military to seal it off.
We are in a defacto war with Mexico right now.


They are invading. They are using their Military to assist with the invasion.

Stop all immigration from subhuman, Third World, shytholes. It's time we stop pretending that non-Europeans and non-East Asians have the ability to live in civilized societies.

and they will let Trump do as he pleases

And they haven't been getting deported before Trump?

I was answering Pet F's sarcastic post. Was I supposed to include a complete history as well?

It’s not just that the policy is different, the entire agenda is different.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
exactly my point as well

I agree that the agenda is fundamentally different. And I believe that difference is good for a reversal of the Progressive trend and an inching back to the constitutional framework.

some comments from His Base

The US Military can have the Southern Border totally sealed off in a month.
Nothing in or out along the Southern Border. Unless its Invaders from South of the Border being dropped into Old Mexico.

And Trump should order the Military to seal it off.
We are in a defacto war with Mexico right now.


They are invading. They are using their Military to assist with the invasion.

Stop all immigration from subhuman, Third World, shytholes. It's time we stop pretending that non-Europeans and non-East Asians have the ability to live in civilized societies.

and they will let Trump do as he pleases

You can pick and choose comments from different parts of what you consider his base--and disregard comments from other parts of his base--and you become the kind of person you mock when you point out selected quotes of "conservatives."

You can pick and choose comments from different parts of what you consider his base--and disregard comments from other parts of his base--and you become the kind of person you mock when you point out selected quotes of "conservatives."


Please feel free to post from other segments of his Base that sound reasonable because I havent read any
Or do you consider Waw Waw Waw comments as from other parts of the Base

Please feel free to post from other segments of his Base that sound reasonable because I havent read any
Or do you consider Waw Waw Waw comments as from other parts of the Base


Not part of his base but knowing people that are they think that following the law and not breaking border / immigration law is a good start.

Crossing border illegally is breaking the law. Fundamental. How hard was that?

Crossing border illegally is breaking the law. Fundamental. How hard was that?
Seeking asylum is perfectly legal. How hard is that?
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Who says don't secure the border... more right wing false information I guess being humane and treating people with dignity is to much to expect from this administration and republicans in general and the USA

so people who want to come here and have applied for it legally, just need to state that they want asylum to cut in the front of the line? I get it. That is much faster and easier than doing it the proper way. And here I thought there is a border for a reason. Yep, loophole asylum = no border, no green card needed, just cut in line. I bet the folks who paid the fees and applied legally are fine with that.

Seeking asylum is perfectly legal. How hard is that?
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You apply for asylum at a border crossing or within a year of entry to the US. How do you prove your year of entry if you don't have a stamped passport?

Who says don't secure the border... more right wing false information I guess being humane and treating people with dignity is to much to expect from this administration and republicans in general and the USA

You secure a border by preventing people from illegally crossing it - you don't secure a border by saying that guy looks like a nice guy so we'll let him cross and that guy looks like a terrorist so him, we'll block.

Being humane and treating with dignity? So what you are saying is that we should reward people that cross and violate the laws?

Personally I think we should have strict border control and let more people through the front door. Wayne - do you think that would be a better way to go? Rather than having a whole class of people underground? What would be wrong with that?

Seeking asylum is perfectly legal. How hard is that?
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Seeking asylum and being granted asylum are two different things.
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Spence wants open borders.....:bgi:

Spence wants open borders.....:bgi:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uyh5p7YvL-0/VaUVdH9ZMTI/AAAAAAAACsY/ZB_wOkZ6Cyw/s1600/Open_Borders_Meme.jpg

Thanks Pres. Trump

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/us/video-diatribe-mexicans.html?module=WatchingPortal&region=c-column-middle-span-region&pgType=Homepage&action=click&mediaId=thumb_square&state=standard&contentPlacement=6&version=internal&contentCollection=www.nytimes.com&contentId=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2018%2F0 6%2F25%2Fus%2Fvideo-diatribe-mexicans.html&eventName=Watching-article-click

Seeking asylum and being granted asylum are two different things.
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You should know. Butler Mental Hospital almost cured you of your paranoia of empty beer can disorder. :rotfl:
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You should know. Butler Mental Hospital almost cured you of your paranoia of empty beer can disorder. :rotfl:
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The key word being "Almost"

ohh..PLEASE let Maxine Waters be the democrat nominee to run against trump next go round......

Just another lovely Trump supporter and I am sure it has nothing to do with his rhetoric.
http://thehill.com/homenews/news/394113-white-woman-cites-trump-calls-man-rapist-and-animal-in-viral-video

Perfect example of party unity here. Two guys,we will call them Paul and Pete. They have an agenda to make the president look bad at any cost. They don't care if one posts the worst person acting like a fool because they don't read anything already posted. Look away Dixieland.
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Thanks Pres. Trump

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/us/video-diatribe-mexicans.html?module=WatchingPortal&region=c-column-middle-span-region&pgType=Homepage&action=click&mediaId=thumb_square&state=standard&contentPlacement=6&version=internal&contentCollection=www.nytimes.com&contentId=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2018%2F0 6%2F25%2Fus%2Fvideo-diatribe-mexicans.html&eventName=Watching-article-click

325,000,000 people in the country and you find a video of an a-hole and of course....Trumps Fault. :rolleyes:

I'm sure she was all puppy dogs and rainbows, and volunteered her free time at the free clinic, before Trump became president...then....BOOM....she became a racist POS after 2016.

pretty sure that is 60+ years of being an a-hole you are witnessing there. Makes more sense to blame George Wallace for that than Trump

Great example of......nothing

325,000,000 people in the country and you find a video of an a-hole and of course....Trumps Fault.
Article says she mentioned Trump and pretty much parroted him word for word.

I'm sure she was all puppy dogs and rainbows, and volunteered her free time at the free clinic, before Trump became president...then....BOOM....she became a racist POS after 2016
If you don't think Trump hasn't used bigotry, hatred and racial animosity to rile his base with lies I don't know what rock you've been hiding under. That some just write it off as nothing is shameful.

Perfect example of party unity here. Two guys,we will call them Paul and Pete. They have an agenda to make the president look bad at any cost. They don't care if one posts the worst person acting like a fool because they don't read anything already posted. Look away Dixieland.
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As I said - nothing to add except criticizing other people's posts. I'm sure John will give you grandmother moderator status here if you want.

Great example of......nothing

Article says she mentioned Trump and pretty much parroted him word for word.Exactly why I posted it. Same words Trump has used in the past



NM

Article says she mentioned Trump and pretty much parroted him word for word.

Again, 325,000,000 and this is one a-hole. She is not representative as you would like everybody to believe. She was 60 years in the making, that did not happen overnight.


If you don't think Trump hasn't used bigotry, hatred and racial animosity to rile his base with lies I don't know what rock you've been hiding under. That some just write it off as nothing is shameful.

Did I say that, no

but when you throw out 1 video and go "See, See I told you this is Trumps America" that is pretty shameless as well.

Thought it was stupid when people threw out that video of the black woman saying that Obama is going to give us all free stuff and tried to pass that off as representative of Obama's base....this is no different.

Even as the court upheld the ban, chief justice John Roberts criticised Trump, and emphasised the importance of the principle of religious non-discrimination in US history.

“The president of the United States possesses an extraordinary power to speak to his fellow citizens and on their behalf,” Roberts wrote. “Our presidents have frequently used that power to espouse the principles of religious freedom and tolerance on which this nation was founded.”

Roberts pointed out that George W Bush defended “the true faith of Islam” after the September 11 attacks and said America is “a great country because we share the same values of respect and dignity and human worth”.

“Yet it cannot be denied,” Roberts wrote, “that the federal government and the presidents who have carried its laws into effect have – from the nation’s earliest days – performed unevenly in living up to those inspiring words.”
What’s happening in this country is not good.
Talking about the issues is one thing, calling people names and using alternative facts is quite different
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Even as the court upheld the ban


Talking about the issues is one thing

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you left out the headline....

US supreme court upholds Trump's travel ban
Blow to anti-discrimination advocates as justices rule 5-4 in favor of Trump administration after months of legal battles

talk about taking selective quotes to create a narrative...geeze....

you left out the headline....

US supreme court upholds Trump's travel ban
Blow to anti-discrimination advocates as justices rule 5-4 in favor of Trump administration after months of legal battles

talk about taking selective quotes to create a narrative...geeze....
What did the travel ban have to do with this discussion?
John Roberts pointed comment regarding Trumps leadership does

What did the travel ban have to do with this discussion?



I wondered that when you linked the article:1poke:

oh that's right, this thread is about leftist's hysteria

:hihi:

John Roberts pointed comment regarding Trumps leadership does



which one?

Again, 325,000,000 and this is one a-hole. She is not representative as you would like everybody to believe. She was 60 years in the making, that did not happen overnight.

I see these videos, the thousands at campaign rallies screaming with rage at Trump saying basically the same thing, the increasing confidence of white supremacists etc... etc...

I see these videos, the thousands at campaign rallies screaming with rage at Trump saying basically the same thing, the increasing confidence of white supremacists etc... etc...

I'm going to take a little liberty with some Hyperbole.

But say you witnessed a 100,000 people frothing at the mouth at his rallies, that number would only represent .03% of the population. (325,700,000)

That same number would only be .16% of the people who voted for him (62,980,160)

But yet, people have no problem posting up videos of a few of people on YouTube being ignorant A-holes and saying this is Trumps America.

Its Shameful and Irresponsible.

I see these videos, the thousands at campaign rallies screaming with rage at Trump saying basically the same thing, the increasing confidence of white supremacists etc... etc...

try to get a grip...I'm concerned for you

I'm going to take a little liberty with some Hyperbole.
A little? Just listen to the POTUS again...it's all there.

I'm going to take a little liberty with some Hyperbole.

But say you witnessed a 100,000 people frothing at the mouth at his rallies, that number would only represent .03% of the population. (325,700,000)

That same number would only be .16% of the people who voted for him (62,980,160)

But yet, people have no problem posting up videos of a few of people on YouTube being ignorant A-holes and saying this is Trumps America.

Its Shameful and Irresponsible.

I don't think she is representative of all of his voters (although a higher % of the people who attend his rallies as they do seem very angry) but how much time has been spent here on Samantha Bee, Hillary's deplorable statement (even though she apologized, Obama's clingers or gotta stop hating statement, or when someone posts a video of a Dem. who is disenchanted?

I think you're ignoring the fact that her words are pretty much exactly what Trump has said at his rallies. MAGA.

He never incites anyone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIs2L2nUL-0

those liberals are making it up
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/president-trump-is-normalizing-racism/2018/05/30/7d5f726e-6417-11e8-a768-ed043e33f1dc_story.html?utm_term=.9fe4ddf8174d

Can we agree that both sides fan the flames to stir their base??

I don't think she is representative of all of his voters (although a higher % of the people who attend his rallies as they do seem very angry) but how much time has been spent here on Samantha Bee, Hillary's deplorable statement (even though she apologized, Obama's clingers or gotta stop hating statement, or when someone posts a video of a Dem. who is disenchanted?

I think you're ignoring the fact that her words are pretty much exactly what Trump has said at his rallies. MAGA.

Not ignoring anything, most people are in agreement that he's not got a lot going in the Morals department.

The point is, these types of folks have been around for years, and they will, sadly, be around for years to come. Whoever the sitting president is, they don't create these people.

Can we agree that both sides fan the flames to stir their base??

I most certainly can

He never incites anyone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIs2L2nUL-0

Never said he didn't.

Now Maxine Waters has a couple under her belt, are the same people that are disgusted with Trump, disgusted with her as well? Or Do 2 wrongs make a right?

Now Maxine Waters has a couple under her belt, are the same people that are disgusted with Trump, disgusted with her as well? Or Do 2 wrongs make a right?

I don't know exactly what she said but I have an idea - it was stupid. Dem. leadership is calling her out for it.

Never said he didn't.

Now Maxine Waters has a couple under her belt, are the same people that are disgusted with Trump, disgusted with her as well? Or Do 2 wrongs make a right?
She's not President.
Sorry but I think there might be a higher standard.
Just like I think we should have a higher standard to be one of a hundred Senators than one of 435 representatives all representing the 325 million people who live in the USA.

Can we agree that both sides fan the flames to stir their base??
Ah the old everybody does it argument. There's no parity here, not even close.

Can we agree that both sides fan the flames to stir their base??

nope...the party of LOVE is only interested in spreading good intentions...they'd never stoop that low...and....they'd have to get off their high horse...but if they did...it would be justified...obviously

There's no parity here, not even close.

MAKES SENSE COMING FROM A BLIND PARTISAN

She's not President.
Sorry but I think there might be a higher standard.
Just like I think we should have a higher standard to be one of a hundred Senators than one of 435 representatives all representing the 325 million people who live in the USA.

Neither was Donald Trump in the video. Those were before He was elected.

So are you saying that Maxine Waters gets a pass because she's not president? Wouldn't that mean that trump should get the same pass because he wasn't President at that time? I mean Waters is a Congresswoman saying those things, Trump was just a civilian.

Personally, i agree that they should ALL be held to a higher standard. And we have ourselves to blame because we attack the good and leave ourselves the crap to pick through.

Neither was Donald Trump in the video. Those were before He was elected.

So are you saying that Maxine Waters gets a pass because she's not president? Wouldn't that mean that trump should get the same pass because he wasn't President at that time? I mean Waters is a Congresswoman saying those things, Trump was just a civilian.

Personally, i agree that they should ALL be held to a higher standard. And we have ourselves to blame because we attack the good and leave ourselves the crap to pick through.
How about his latest then
https://youtu.be/NjPU3J2oEns
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Just being like Jeb Bush didn’t work
https://usat.ly/2yI8eYc
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How about his latest then
https://youtu.be/NjPU3J2oEns
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I'll wait for the highlight reel. No way I'm listening to an hour of him.

No way I'm listening to an hour of him.

no way I'm bothering clicking all of those links...good grief:huh:

So are you saying that Maxine Waters gets a pass because she's not president? Wouldn't that mean that trump should get the same pass because he wasn't President at that time? I mean Waters is a Congresswoman saying those things, Trump was just a civilian.
Her remark wasn't smart but it doesn't even register on the Trump scale.

Ah the old everybody does it argument. There's no parity here, not even close.

That is right, the vocal left is far out-crappifying the vocal right. If you listed to the radical left, Handmaiden's Tale is right around the corner if we don't die first because of a Travel Ban or Taxes or something or Stormy.

This thread demonstrates how blind all parties become when it comes to shouldering the blame. For two of the biggest blowhards to portray a certain dope as a common denominator in the Republican Party is a true indicator of their parity hopes. Not many here defend Trump but they will at least go to bat for him when he does something good for the country. The same folks criticize him when he makes another of his errors. Love watching the 4 year meltdown the fools are enduring. Almost as entertaining as Trump in a car crash way.
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How have we gotten along with no travel Ban... Just more of the same why isn't Mexico on the list we are getting invaded are we not??

How have we gotten along with no travel Ban...

what travel ban?:huh:

what travel ban?:huh:

exactly It was never needed to keep America safe ... it was just for his Base to keep them safe from The brown Muslim boogeyman.. that are coming to take their country away ..... :btu:

exactly It was never needed to keep America safe ... it was just for his Base to keep them safe from The brown Muslim boogeyman.. that are coming to take their country away ..... :btu:

huh?

This could get interesting.

https://biggs.house.gov/media/press-releases/congressman-biggs-introduces-resolution-censure-and-condemn-rep-maxine-waters

Love watching the 4 year meltdown the fools are enduring. Almost as entertaining as Trump in a car crash way.
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If Schadenfreude were enough, it alone would be worth it for many. But it does take the edge off.

I do not know what will be worse for the Republic; Trump or Trump Derangement Syndrome though I am thinking the latter.

If Ted Cruz had one it would have been similar though not as vocal, if Romney had won a few years back, similar but less intense.

On a party basis, the right was very critical of Obama but not hysterical in emotion as the left is for Trump.

On a party basis, the right was very critical of Obama but not hysterical in emotion as the left is for Trump.
This is where you're just not being serious.

If Schadenfreude were enough, it alone would be worth it for many. But it does take the edge off.

I do not know what will be worse for the Republic; Trump or Trump Derangement Syndrome though I am thinking the latter.

If Ted Cruz had one it would have been similar though not as vocal, if Romney had won a few years back, similar but less intense.

On a party basis, the right was very critical of Obama but not hysterical in emotion as the left is for Trump.

What glasses are you seeing this thru because I need a pair .... at what point will his actions be seen as his actions and not as hysterical emotion from the left ??

I have stated this before the left is not attacking Trump on imaginary events like the birther issue or he is really a Muslim or he bowed or forgot to salute some one.. Trumps actions are very real and spoken and have a direct impact


but seeing you can rationalize the right treatment of obama stolen court appointments 8 years of obstruction as the right only basis was being critical... is totally devoid of facts in an attempt to re write history

This could get interesting.

https://biggs.house.gov/media/press-releases/congressman-biggs-introduces-resolution-censure-and-condemn-rep-maxine-waters


Maxine Waters' comments condone public violence and encourage actions that jeopardize the safety and security of government officials and the American people.


a complete lie to rally the base .... that was never said but 1a rights are only supported on the right when it suites them... But no one on the right cares what Trump says


The Red Hen Restaurant should focus more on cleaning its filthy canopies, doors and windows (badly needs a paint job) rather than refusing to serve a fine person like Sarah Huckabee Sanders. I always had a rule, if a restaurant is dirty on the outside, it is dirty on the inside!

is it ok for the POTUS to attack an American owned Business ? apparently his supporters dont see an issue but its fine for Trump administration sides with Colorado baker who refused to make wedding cake for gay couple amazing how that works

I have stated this before the left is not attacking Trump on imaginary events like the birther issue or he is really a Muslim or he bowed or forgot to salute some one.. Trumps actions are very real and spoken and have a direct impact
You forgot his fraternization with terrorists, that's he's a socialist etc... etc...

But this is exactly the point. A huge amount of right wing frenzy over Obama was rooted in baseless conspiracies.

This is what concerns me about where the Republican party has gone as the new party of Trump. Facts don't matter, the media is the enemy, the Deep State is controlling everything, we're being overrun with Mexican rapists and Islamic terrorists, alliances don't matter, they've taken all our jobs and on and on...

It's all a giant false narrative to confuse, gaslight and play the victim card on just about every issue.

Maxine Waters' comments condone public violence and encourage actions that jeopardize the safety and security of government officials and the American people.

a complete lie to rally the base .... that was never said

yeah, never happened :rolleyes:

“Let’s make sure we show up wherever we have to show up,” she said at a rally in Los Angeles on Saturday. “And if you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. And you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere.”

a complete fabrication.

http://fortune.com/2018/06/25/rep-maxine-waters-tells-supporters-to-harass-trump-cabinet-members/

It's statements like Wayne's that make me wonder about just how informed he could be. Where are all the rights groups protesting this type of treatment? They had no problem making a big stink out of gays being refused service...
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yeah, never happened :rolleyes:

“Let’s make sure we show up wherever we have to show up,” she said at a rally in Los Angeles on Saturday. “And if you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. And you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere.”

a complete fabrication.

http://fortune.com/2018/06/25/rep-maxine-waters-tells-supporters-to-harass-trump-cabinet-members/

Were is the call for violence I know your compehension skills are not that poor and you posted it word for word I guess she should have said... use your 1st amendment rights and when you see them be heard let them know your displeasure in their policy's and action but I am guessing you would still think it was a call to violence let me know when you find the violence part ( plz don't say when she said push back that would be very snowflake indeed)

Even Trumps spreading the lie
.
She has just called for harm to supporters, of which there are many, of the Make America Great Again movement.

John Roberts pointed comment regarding Trumps leadership does



while we wait for your clarification....here are Justice Kennedy's pointed comments regarding the leadership of the "progressive" California Legislature...

"The California Legislature included in its official history the congratulatory statement that the Act was part of California’s legacy of “forward thinking.” App. 38–39. But it is not forward thinking to force individuals to “be an instrument for fostering public adherence to an ideological point of view [they] fin[d] unacceptable.” Wooley v. Maynard, 430 U. S. 705, 715 (1977). It is forward thinking to begin by reading the First Amendment as ratified in 1791; to understand the history of authoritarian government as the Founders then knew it; to confirm that history since then shows how relentless authoritarian regimes are in their attempts to stifle free speech; and to carry those lessons onward as we seek to preserve and teach the necessity of freedom of speech for the generations to come. Governments must not be allowed to force persons to express a message contrary to their deepest convictions. Freedom of speech secures freedom of thought and belief. This law imperils those liberties."

Were is the call for violence I know your compehension skills are not that poor and you posted it word for word I guess she should have said... use your 1st amendment rights and when you see them be heard let them know your displeasure in their policy's and action but I am guessing you would still think it was a call to violence let me know when you find the violence part ( plz don't say when she said push back that would be very snowflake indeed)

You never said a call for violence, so why would my response have anything to do with a call to violence. But you did point out "Encourage actions that jeopardize the safety and security of government officials"

Maxine Waters' comments condone public violence and encourage actions that jeopardize the safety and security of government officials and the American people.


so if you don't think that the wording (Bolded for your pleasure) she used wouldn't rile people up to possibly act violently, then you are the most naive person roaming the planet.

yeah, never happened :rolleyes:

“Let’s make sure we show up wherever we have to show up,” she said at a rally in Los Angeles on Saturday. “And if you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. And you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere.”


Or how about this, what would your reaction be if Trump said those SAME EXACT words about democrats in Congress? Would you be OK with it then, or would you be calling for his head for bullying and threatening members of congress.

I'm thinking this:

https://i.imgur.com/LcFUuQ1.gif

Or how about this, what would your reaction be if Trump said those SAME EXACT words about democrats in Congress? Would you be OK with it then, or would you be calling for his head for bullying and threatening members of congress.
Hasn't he already said far worse?

You never said a call for violence, so why would my response have anything to do with a call to violence. But you did point out "Encourage actions that jeopardize the safety and security of government officials"



so if you don't think that the wording (Bolded for your pleasure) she used wouldn't rile people up to possibly act violently, then you
][COLOR="black"][COLOR="black"][COLOR="black"]]
Or how about this, what would your reaction be if Trump said those SAME EXACT words about democrats in Congress? Would you be OK with it then, or would you be calling for his head for bullying and threatening members of congress.

I'm thinking this:

https://i.imgur.com/LcFUuQ1.gif

What you have in bold text are nothing but predictions , This what the right tends to do take what some one said to include Trump then spend days telling us what they ment to say , seems you didn't see trumps tweet he involved all his supporters ... I am just pointing out she never mentioned violence that was started by the Right and mention waters and conservatives head do explode Like that

Her remark wasn't smart but it doesn't even register on the Trump scale.

Wasn't smart? It was beyond stupid, made her sound just like Trump back in the rallies asking people to smack the #^&#^&#^&#^& out of a protester on the other side of the aisle. She should be publicly reprimanded.

Love it. Aunt Esther does something stupid and all the left can say is "but Trump..."
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Wasn't smart? It was beyond stupid, made her sound just like Trump back in the rallies asking people to smack the #^&#^&#^&#^& out of a protester on the other side of the aisle. She should be publicly reprimanded.

:agree:

While we all rant about immigration, ignoring the cause, and not trying to solve the problems (Trump is threatening to eliminate aid if they don’t stop the flow)
Perhaps we should look at the history of the USA and Central America
https://medium.com/s/story/timeline-us-intervention-central-america-a9bea9ebc148
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https://www.carnegie.org/programs/great-immigrants/
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[QUOTE=Pete F.;1145702]While we all rant about immigration, ignoring the cause, and not trying to solve the problems (Trump is threatening to eliminate aid if they don’t stop the flow)
Perhaps we should look at the history of the USA and Central America
[url]https://medium.com/s/story/timeline-us-intervention-central-america-a9bea9ebc1

There is here, not just one-sided causes.

Suicide is not a good model for reparations.

Present generations should not be required to make reparations for past generations (on both sides of the borders) actions.

Present generation can try to make a deal, or renegotiate old deals. If not, we can stay out of there business and territory, and they can stay out of ours.

https://www.carnegie.org/programs/great-immigrants/
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Immigrants are a secret only if they are "undocumented." And they are not the "secret of America" as in what makes America great. They don't make America any greater than they make any other country great. There is something else that makes America great, but it's no use trying to discuss that with you.

Immigrants are a secret only if they are "undocumented." And they are not the "secret of America" as in what makes America great. They don't make America any greater than they make any other country great. There is something else that makes America great, but it's no use trying to discuss that with you.
Are you a Native American?
Five million of us are but I would guess however that you are an immigrant or a descendant of a number of them.
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it's no use trying to discuss that with you.



this is pretty much where we're at .....

[QUOTE=Pete F.;1145702]While we all rant about immigration, ignoring the cause, and not trying to solve the problems (Trump is threatening to eliminate aid if they don’t stop the flow)
Perhaps we should look at the history of the USA and Central America
[url]https://medium.com/s/story/timeline-us-intervention-central-america-a9bea9ebc1

There is here, not just one-sided causes.

Suicide is not a good model for reparations.

Present generations should not be required to make reparations for past generations (on both sides of the borders) actions.

Present generation can try to make a deal, or renegotiate old deals. If not, we can stay out of there business and territory, and they can stay out of ours.

I did not say his bull#^&#^&#^&#^& about reperations was correct.
I said we need to look at the history
We repeat the same mistakes over and over, in China, Vietnam, The Middle East, North Africa and Central and South America.
Is there a reason we feel compelled to have the largest military budget in the world by any measure
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Are you a Native American?
Five million of us are but I would guess however that you are an immigrant or a descendant of a number of them.
I am. Good god does this mean I have to start carrying my tribal membership card around with me at all times ???
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Are you a Native American?
Five million of us are but I would guess however that you are an immigrant or a descendant of a number of them.
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Oh, so becoming an immigrant gives one the power to make a country great. That must be why an immigrant to a new country can't make the country he came from great. He wasn't an immigrant there.

And that must mean natives should step aside and let the immigrants take over if they want their country to be great.

BS.

[QUOTE=detbuch;1145715]

I did not say his bull#^&#^&#^&#^& about reperations was correct.
I said we need to look at the history
We repeat the same mistakes over and over, in China, Vietnam, The Middle East, North Africa and Central and South America.
Is there a reason we feel compelled to have the largest military budget in the world by any measure
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Oh, sorry, I thought you were talking about immigration and how it made America great.

I am. Good god does this mean I have to start carrying my tribal membership card around with me at all times ???
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No, you might want to hide your card. You don't make America great. Immigrants do. You should be thankful that all those immigrants came here and took over and set you natives aside so the country could be great. And flashing your card around will just expose you as one those who couldn't do it. You know, like you're inferior.

Oh, so becoming an immigrant gives one the power to make a country great. That must be why an immigrant to a new country can't make the country he came from great. He wasn't an immigrant there.

And that must mean natives should step aside and let the immigrants take over if they want their country to be great.

BS.

another one who in history he must have gotten a F

Our founders seeing the couldn't make the country they came from (england) great... came here for a better life what losers

another one who in history he must have gotten a F

Our founders seeing the couldn't make the country they came from (england) great... came here for a better life what losers

Why couldn't they make England great? The immigrants going to England are making it great. London is finally great now.

Did the original colonists come here "for a better life" because what awaited them was a developed country ready to give them that better life, or because they could build that life themselves? Because they could create their version of a better life? Because they would finally be free to do so? Did they seek a better life in a place that offered it, ready made? Or did they seek the freedom to create one? And was freedom to make one's life and fortune the distinguishing character of the country they created, and which was the attraction for immigrants many years thereafter? Immigrants who, for those many years were given basically nothing other than freedom and responsibility? Was it immigration that made this country great? Or was it freedom?

I did not get an F in history? I'm thinking I probably did, at the least, as well as you?

[QUOTE=Pete F.;1145702]While we all rant about immigration, ignoring the cause, and not trying to solve the problems (Trump is threatening to eliminate aid if they don’t stop the flow)
Perhaps we should look at the history of the USA and Central America
[url]https://medium.com/s/story/timeline-us-intervention-central-america-a9bea9ebc1

There is here, not just one-sided causes.

Suicide is not a good model for reparations.

Present generations should not be required to make reparations for past generations (on both sides of the borders) actions.

Present generation can try to make a deal, or renegotiate old deals. If not, we can stay out of there business and territory, and they can stay out of ours.
Would Crimea be an “old” deal?
Should we have only a one term memory or are we a nation that believes in the rule of law?
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[QUOTE=detbuch;1145715]
Would Crimea be an “old” deal?

Do you think there should be a Crimea deal?

Should we have only a one term memory or are we a nation that believes in the rule of law?
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To which law are you referring?